Kidnapped Jaycee Dugard on baby’s birth: “I felt like I wasn’t alone anymore”
Three years into her captivity [at age 14], Dugard went into labor with the first of her daughters fathered by her abductor, Phillip Garrido. She was locked in a room in Garrido’s backyard compound when she began having pains.
“I didn’t know I was in labor,” Dugard told ABC News’ Diane Sawyer…. “I was still… locked [in] at that time. Just scared.”
Dugard told Sawyer that she knew nothing about sex before being kidnapped at 11 years old by Phillip and Nancy Garrido in 1991. She writes in her memoir, A Stolen Life, that the Garridos told her she was pregnant when she was 13 on a Sunday in 1994. She knew she was putting on weight, but didn’t know why.
She began watching videos about giving birth and worried because she knew there would be no doctor, just her kidnappers to help her. She writes in her book that giving birth was the most painful experience of her life.
“And then I saw her. She was beautiful. I felt like I wasn’t alone anymore. [I] had somebody else who was mine. I wasn’t alone,” Dugard said.
She gave birth again in 1997 to another little girl. She educated her children, creating a school in the compound to teach them as much as she could with only a 5th grade education.
~ ABC News, July 7
[HT: Kelli]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
So, so wrong.
Send Phillip Garrido over to Saudi Arabia. They’ll show him what life is like for rapists under sharia law.
God bless her.
Carder – only if there are 3 male eye witnesses to the rape and the guy can’t pay someone off. Otherwise, it’s poor Jaycee who will have to fear for her life.
Re:Jaycee, what an amazing girl. To find the good in the most horrible situation I can imagine. She is amazing.
Jaycee’s story highlights one of the healing dynamics that comes from not aborting the child conceived in rape. There was a peacefulness that descended on her, a feeling that she was not alone anymore. She had another human being for whom she was now responsible as its mother, albeit a young mother.
That responsibility attenuated the fear that is a part of being a victim and gave her a constructive avenue through which she could channel her trauma. I know that trolls will have a field day with this one, however, maternal love is a powerful engine that sublimates a mountain of hurts, disappointments and traumas into a positive energy for good. The same may be said for paternal love. This maternal and paternal love is a God-given, built-in mechanism for healing of the parent and protection of the young. It was unspoiled in such a young girl, paradoxically because of her confinement.
As one who is ardently opposed to the death penalty, I could make an exception for Jaycee’s captors. They deserve the cruelest ending imaginable. And still, in the midst of their blackest, filthy malevolence, love shone in the darkness, and the rape victim was rescued by her children and her own young mother’s heart.
I do believe the victim of rape is killed by stoning under Sharia Law.
Honor killing.
Lovely.
Dear Jaycee,
What an inspiration you are and a wonderful mother!! Can’t wait to read your book!
God bless you!
Hey Mods,
Do you know the comments are OFF on the Weekend Question post?
Wow. Looks like Jaycee had a really horrible life. Her parents should’ve aborted her. How irresponsible of them not to have done so.
“Jaycee’s story highlights one of the healing dynamics that comes from not aborting the child conceived in rape. ”
Isn’t that special. When the conceived in rape child reaches grammar school and other kids are talking about their daddies, this kid can proudly proclaim – my daddy was a rapist and kidnapper. “Healing dynamics” - what world do you live in? These kids will face a lifetime of psychotherapy if they don’t commit suicide by that time. But it’s just so beautiful when women bear the children of rapist – their “baby daddy.”
Is there any question of why the anti-choice movement, that would force women to bear the children of their rapists, regarded as bizarre and misogynist zealots! Happy pregnancy as a result of rape. Sick, sick, sick.
But thank you for another screen print to be used on pro-choice blog and for pro-choice fund raising.
Make sure you get mine right above yours. I notice there’s no defense for the “if kids might have bad lives, abort them” line you all are so fond of.
“These kids will face a lifetime of psychotherapy if they don’t commit suicide by that time.”
CC, what exactly are you talking about? Give us some examples of all these children wallowing away in psychotheraphy over their rapist-fathers. Are you not paying any attention to the numerous individuals who are shouting to the rooftops their gratitude to their mothers for NOT aborting them when they were conceived in rape?
And, for every kid fathered by a rapist there are at least 100 others with an absentee dad – how does that make them feel when their classmates start talking about their daddies? Does this mean we should start aborting their lives once their dad decides that they’re not worth his time? I suppose everytime a child has something painful in their life, which can be brought to the surface based through conversation with their peers, we should seriously consider death as an option for them?
What a sad world YOU live in CC; life is such hell for you that you are convinced that allowing others the opportunity to live their own life would be torturous.
CC, Did you watch the interview with Jaycee? She has more love, joy and forgiveness in her little pinky fingernail than you do in your whole existence. Her children are who gave her hope and a reason to survive.
Few rapists are ever found out. Maybe one of your parents is a rapist. It’s not something they would probably tell you.
There is no shame in having a parent who is a hateful criminal. The shame belongs with the criminal and the one full of hate. Take a good long look in the mirror because it is my opinion that you need psychotherapy.
When the conceived in rape child reaches grammar school and other kids are talking about their daddies, this kid can proudly proclaim – my daddy was a rapist and kidnapper.
When the child reaches grammar school, it’s likely that at least HALF of the other kids at school won’t be talking about their daddies, either, since many of them will likely be from single-parent or divorced households.
My daddy was an adulterer who abandoned my mother and me. That was his choice – not mine. What reflection does that have on my worth as a human being?
CC 7:03PM
Garrido was a released rapist. Maybe your issue should be with a legal system that doesn’t take rape very seriously. Jaycee might have been spared this horror if it had been. But then your problem isn’t the crime of rape, its the children who may result from it that you find so repugnant. Ever stop to think CC that you may have an ancestor or two who was conceived by, or conceived a child, by rape?
I know a man who’s father was a hit man. He didn’t value his life any less and he became a very upstanding and mentally stable man. What about children who’s fathers are criminals, drug addicts, wife beaters, etc.? Do they spend a lifetime in psychotherapy and commit suicide?
Get real.
Another “kids with bad parents never needed to live” argument? CC, you never give up do you? You even used the line about kids having to tell everyone “my daddy is a rapist” again. Repetitively asserting the same thing over and over means nothing when compared against the thousands and millions of people who lived through bad childhoods and bad parents and, guess what, don’t think they would rather be dead! Let it drop already, it’s the dumbest argument for abortion there is.
I am glad that Jaycee managed to find some healing and happiness in horrible circumstances, whatever that may be. I am glad she is safe and finding healing.
CC never lets the truth stand in her way.
CC, your big problem (or one of them) is your misunderstanding of pain. You can’t seem to conceive of any solution for problems in life but social services and psychotherapy. And if you think those won’t work, it’s “hey, let’s just eliminate the people involved, and the world will be clean and pretty.”
Not so. I was born into a loving family with two great parents (married 60 years next November) and a large pack of loving brothers and sisters. I never had to suffer serious poverty, was able to get a terrific education on a scholarship, and have generally been surrounded by good fortune in my life.
Yet there have been times when it would have been comforting to me to think I might have had a rapist for a father. At least that would have provided some kind of explanation for the hell I went through in my mid-teens and again in my twenties because of the serious depression. Because there was no external explanation for my suffering. Temperament, chemical imbalance, whatever. We still don’t know the cause.
I’ll admit I never thought about rapist dads at the time – but I did have plenty to say to God, not all of it nice. Happily I had a near miraculous recovery in circumstances that let me know what God wanted me to do with my life (much too long a story to explain here).
Nobody could have predicted my pain before my birth – or my healing. Happily no one thought of aborting me to prevent it. Much as you might hate to admit it, suffering is not within our control. People with rapists for dads may not escape it – but then neither will anyone else. Pain is the human condition. It is how we face it that matters.
No explanations for pain ever suffice, unless you are in contact with God. But when you are in a relationship with Him, no explanations are necessary. I truly wish you could no this. You sound like a very unhappy person – you would not be coming here with your rants if you weren’t. I pray you will turn to God and get the healing you need.
CC,
What is it in you that makes you come here over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over…
and champion the right of a woman to have another human being ripped to shreds? It’s sick and depraved, and so are you for dedicating hundreds, and hundreds of hours to protecting this murderous institution. Being suddenly pregnant and without resources is understandable. Your advocacy, from the safety of your advanced years is not. God is waiting to take you back with an ocean of love and mercy whenever you decide that you’re tired of wallowing in your own vomit. My sincerest prayers are with you.
As for the screen print, please do copy it. Perhaps someone with a murderous heart such as yours might see something they never saw before.
And CC, didn’t you say you work or have worked for Child Protective Services? How did you deal with abused children, seeing as you have no understanding of abuse or how to deal with it. Especially young girls, maybe pregnant from their abusers. Would you talk to them like this? Tell them they have to have an abortion, otherwise their child will suffer for it? Do you tell the victims of incest that something is wrong with them because “their daddy is a rapist”? I can’t even imagine how unsafe and hurt you would make abused kids feel talking like that. When I was an abused kid there is no way in the world I would have trusted someone like you. People like you compound the terror and shame of abuse, and make it less likely for people to ever come forward.
Just read what you have written, and try to imagine reading to a young girl pregnant by a rapist or a victim of incest. If you can’t see what damage those words cause, then you have some screw loose.
Jack,
To the morally and intellectually bankrupt who glory in their past abortions, death is the only answer for them. Death for everyone else, that is. For themselves, it’s an endless litany of entitlements, narcissism, and hedonism.
It’s called depravity, and CC is the poster girl.
CC,
Jack Nicholson is the child of a rapist. He’s 74 years old. He’s known for a few decades, and he’s glad his mother chose life.
Janet Sheen (wife of Martin Sheen, mother of Charlie Sheen, Emilio Estevez, Renée Estevez and Ramon Estevez) is also the child of a rapist. She is 67 years old. She and her entire family are glad her mother chose life.
Neither of these well-known celebrities have committed suicide, nor do they want to. (Yes, Janet’s son Charlie needs a lot of help, but it has nothing to do with being the grandchild of a rapist.)
If children of rape ever do feel worthless, it is due to people like you that put such a stigma on them that makes them depressed. That would be the reason why they feel they have no worth. Not because of who their parents are, but because others make them feel bad for being a child conceived in rape.
What if you found out that someone you love is the child of a rape victim? Would it change your view of their worth? Would you love them any less? Would you tell them that you wouldn’t blame them if they killed themselves?
Back in the old days, rape was part of war. Warriors would go into their rivals’ areas, kill the men, pillage, and take the women and children, then burn the place to the ground. Then they would rape the women. Therefore, it is actually very highly likely that you are the descendant of a rapist and rape victim. Does that mean that your worth is any less? Do you think your ancestors should have killed themselves?
Check out Rebecca Keissling’s website for stories and information on people who have been conceived in rape. rebeccakiessling.com
“To the morally and intellectually bankrupt who glory in their past abortions, death is the only answer for them. Death for everyone else, that is. For themselves, it’s an endless litany of entitlements, narcissism, and hedonism.”
Much as I don’t like to believe it, you may be right. I can’t believe that she claims to have worked with abused kids and still writes the stuff she does. I can’t imagine what harm she may have brought on them with her rhetoric. I also remember her writing that she dislikes kids. No wonder she advocates killing the unborn and causing more damage by heaping stigma onto rape victims.
Jack,
Her writing is the measure of the evil that has gripped her soul. She not only comes here and argues a murderous screed, but by her own admission on this thread, she takes screen shots to fundraise for abortion. Not content to be a mere apologist, she actively funds the murder of children.
She is sick, very sick, and depraved. I too have worked with abused children, seven years in Times Square NY in the 80’s with girls escaping prostitution. Most were pregnant. It never crossed my mind to encourage the murder of their children.
It all begins with where the counselor is at as a human being. An authentic Christian anthropology allows one to see the image and likeness of God in the very people CC helps to murder through her fundraising. The scriptures tell us that the more broken and destitute a human is, the more God identifies with them and implores our protection of them. Jesus also promises the fires of hell for those who cause them harm, if even through neglect (Matthew 25).
CC is caught up in a murderous rebellion against the Catholic Church for events she misinterpreted as a child. In her woundedness, she’ll see to it that as many babies die as she can, all in an attempt to strike back at the Church in a way that she perceives will cause the Church to howl in rage. The only one howling is CC.
Is Matthew 25 is the “What you do for the least of these, you do for me”, the parable of the sheep and goats? Memory is a little hazy, haven’t read the Bible in a while and I don’t have one handy, but if that’s the one it is one of my favorite parts of the Bible.
I grew up with a lot of rage towards religion and Christianity due to how I was raised. But never, even once, have I imagined taking my anger out on the most defenseless of humanity in an attempt to punish those who wronged me. As I get older, I see that it’s foolish to blame a religion for the actions of a few bad people. Actually, I would wager that a horrible childhood made me more likely to defend those who need it. And no one needs it more than the “unwanted” babies that people like CC are actively trying to have killed. Actively! I don’t understand it at all. And the fact that these people could also work with abused and vulnerable teenagers, who would be easy to coerce or convince into having an abortion, is just disheartening.
The children being killed due to her efforts are probably countless, if she is this rabid about promoting and funding abortion. This stuff makes me sick.
I don’t remember what CC has commented on CPCs, though it wouldn’t surprise me if she thought they were subversive for suppoorting continuing pregnancies.
Ironically, if she worked on a suicide hotline, she might well recommend that people go ahead and jump off that bridge! :(
You’ve got the right idea about Matthew 25, Jack (and if you would prefer that I use your full name, I will).
Verse 40: “Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.”
And shortly after that in verse 45: “Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.”
You get one guess as to what happens after that…
And I can certainly understand how one would be angry at Christians or any subgroup thereof. I’ve personally known a lot of people who called themselves Catholics and yet conducted themselves such that the Gestapo would have been proud of them. Sadly, it’s easy to call oneself Catholic or Christian with nothing to back it up, leading those who don’t know any better to believe that these people are representative of us.
You may or may not be aware of this, but it’s gotten to the point that they have their own name: Cino (pronounced chee-no). It stands for Catholic In Name Only (or Christian In Name Only for the more generic version). Every group has their black sheep and sadly, this is ours.
It is very encouraging to hear of people like yourself who are able to distinguish between the actions of a few and the ideals of the group they claim to represent. It reminds me of an old saying (Chesterton, perhaps?): many people hate the Catholic Church for what they think it is, only a few (relatively) hate it for what it actually is.
“And the fact that these people could also work with abused and vulnerable teenagers, who would be easy to coerce or convince into having an abortion, is just disheartening. ”
“But never, even once, have I imagined taking my anger out on the most defenseless of humanity in an attempt to punish those who wronged me.”
And in this, I hope you would be undisenheartened (if that wasn’t a word before, it is now), for you know that anger, pain and betrayal do not eliminate one’s sense of … I guess, fairness and justice, for lack of a better term. The world may be very cold, dark and heartless for a lot of people, Jack, but you know as well as I do that there is always hope.
Even for CC.
I think CC was really just reacting to the horror of garalds rejoicing that Jaycee got pregnant at 13 from a rape.
Jaycee should not have been raped. We all agree about this. She never should has gotten pregnant. Her children should not exist not because they should have been aborted but because they should never have Been conceived.
Thank god Jaycee found love and comfort in her children. But her story is about her own strength and not abortion, which was never on the table.
Geralds earlier comment about womens material love had a lot of interpretations. And could be interpreted to mean that babies are so good for women that women should have them even against their will because it will make the woman stronger and happier.
It is an additional offense against a woman when she is impregnated on top of a rape. It is an offense to all women to hope they get pregnant to ‘give meaning to their rape’. No woman should ever become pregnant from rape but if one does and is able to handle it as beautifully as Jaycee we must uplift her while continually condemning he situation
I have seen cruelty from pro-aborts here before, but this is a new low. Predicting suicide for innocent children is pure evil.
I see that CC hasn’t been back to try and defend this evil, I realize that most likely she’s just been busy.
I pray, oh how I pray, that she has realized how disgusting and hurtful her projections on these two innocent children have been.
No one is happy about Jaycee getting raped and becoming pregnant by her rapist, Shannon. No one is wishing women who get raped conceive.
We are admiring the capacity of a girl to make the best of an absolutely horrific situation and admiring the healing power of motherhood.
If you want to make us out to be “misogynists” because of this, go right ahead. I hope you raise your voice loudly about it, because the more your side yells “misogynist”, the less credence people give you, because it’s been nothing but years of you all crying wolf at this point about us.
Not only are JayCee’s two daughters a comfort to her, we don’t know what other blessings they’ll bring to her, their grandmother and all mankind.
Only God could make good out of this truly horrific crime, done to JayCee and her family.
Amen, Elle!!
What has happened to Jaycee is horrifying beyond belief and comprehension.
Jaycee said so herself that her children are a comfort to her, that she was glad she wasn’t alone and I love that she didn’t have them on the interview!! Protect them.
She was beautiful and articulate and so kind hearted. I love that she kept saying that anger at her tormentor would mean that he won and she wasn’t going to let him have any more of her!! Gads, what a survivor!!
She has risen above her circumstances and shown us what a great capacity the human spirit has to heal from trauma!! Go Jaycee! Just watching her be grateful to be alive was breathtaking.
Shannon,
I see nothing in Gerard’s post that you are insinuating he said. Best keep digging.
Has anyone read the novel “Son of the Morning” by Joyce Carol Oates? In the story, a 15-year-old virgin named Elsa Vickery is set upon by a group of men and raped. Her little finger is pulled out of its socket in the process and she is left to walk home with blood dripping down her legs and her underpants gone.
She gives birth to Nathan Vickery who grows up to be a famous Christian minister.
Gerard, I thought that was a beautiful comment. Blessings in the face of, and even as a result of, tragedy are never easy to wrap our minds around – but they are so beautiful for that very reason. When I was a freshman in college I struggled with physical health problems and was hospitalized, and eventually put on medical leave, which meant I had to forfeit a merit-based full scholarship I’d received. I was devastated and thought my life was over – honestly, there were days when I thought that the only reason I made it to the night without killing myself were because I couldn’t muster up the motivation to do even that. As I healed physically I felt the pangs of mental anguish and [situational] depression, thinking of all I’d lost and all that would never be. I was living at home while all my friends were out learning things and having fun, attending community college courses and eventually working full-time to pay for them (even community college is more expensive than a full scholarship, and it was an expense we hadn’t anticipated).
And then my mother got cancer. Both my sisters were away at college and my father had to work twice as hard to pay for the treatments, which sent him on the road with dizzying frequency. And there I was, already living at home with nowhere else to go anytime soon, physically healed and mentally desperate for “something” to live for. I worked my behind off in the weeks leading up to her surgery, to prepare for what was coming, and then after the surgery I left the job and went to school on a light schedule and spent the rest of my time with my mom. Those early post-surgery weeks, where she was too weak to sit up or laugh or even talk, were difficult, but the weeks that followed are some of my most cherished memories. I remember taking her out to a movie, her first time out of the house in months. We went to an early afternoon showing of a movie that had been out for weeks, to ensure that we’d be somewhat alone, and I brought a down comforter for her to get comfy in, plus some pillows for hugging; we giggled, walking slowly and gently down the corridor of the cineplex, as the ushers all stared after us. Things like that – caring for my mother as she cared for me for so many years, and growing into her friend at the same time – I will never forget.
I would never wish either of those experiences on anyone – my own illness, or the illness of a parent. And yet in some ways one saved me from the other, and both left me with experiences and lessons and a strengthened relationship that I wouldn’t have had otherwise. Would I trade that relationship and those experiences for a fancy degree earned right on time? No. Do I wish I had never been sick, and my mom had never been sick? Absolutely. It’s complicated, but in some ways it is simple: bad things are bad, and good things are good. I will never say “Thank goodness my mother had cancer” – just like no one would ever say, “Thank goodness Jaycee was raped” – but I guess, thank goodness that there is goodness even in the darkest, most desperate times.
“How did you deal with abused children, seeing as you have no understanding of abuse or how to deal with it. Especially young girls, maybe pregnant from their abusers. Would you talk to them like this? Tell them they have to have an abortion, otherwise their child will suffer for it?”
I dealt with girls who were molested by their fathers. Thankfully, none of them were pregnant. But then, you folks would allow no abortions even for incest. As I said, a lifetime of therapy awaits those in that type of circumstance. At least we were able to start the process.
Oh, and my mother might have been the product of rape as her mother never disclosed who her sperm donor was. My mother went to her grave with so many anger issues. She was never, ever, able to accept the circumstances of her birth.
“I have seen cruelty from pro-aborts here before, but this is a new low. Predicting suicide for innocent children is pure evil”
You obviously never dealt with abused/neglected children in a legal capacity, I did. But please, if you think that children live happily ever after a trauma such as rape, then please, be my guest, volunteer as a child advocate in your local family court system. You might learn something. The world out there isn’t the happy babyland that you think it is. Check out the data regarding sexual abuse and suicide. It’s real.
Alexandra says:
July 17, 2011 at 4:49 pm
Gerard, I thought that was a beautiful comment. Blessings in the face of, and even as a result of, tragedy are never easy to wrap our minds around – but they are so beautiful for that very reason. When I was a freshman in college I struggled with physical health problems and was hospitalized, and eventually put on medical leave, which meant I had to forfeit a merit-based full scholarship I’d received. I was devastated and thought my life was over – honestly, there were days when I thought that the only reason I made it to the night without killing myself were because I couldn’t muster up the motivation to do even that. As I healed physically I felt the pangs of mental anguish and [situational] depression, thinking of all I’d lost and all that would never be. I was living at home while all my friends were out learning things and having fun
(Denise) There’s a positive side to being sickly, particularly if it means you are housebound. The friends who were out “having fun” were, in all likelihood, forming romantic attachments. While some may have formed them only with other females in which case abortion is irrelevant, the majority would be likely to form them with males. That means they could have problem pregnancies — which could lead to abortions.
A lot of things have both costs and benefits. There are benefits to being what used to be called an “invalid.” One may be subject to fewer temptations and thereby be mercifully spared the horrors (such as abortion) to which temptations lead.
I was severely abused in about every way possible as a child and teen, CC. You talk like it is forgone conclusion that those of us who were born into horrible circumstances have no chance at picking ourselves up and living a happy life. That is a horrible attitude to have. It is hard, yes. But healing is possible and death isn’t the answer.
“Not content to be a mere apologist, she actively funds the murder of children”
Yes, I fund abortion which the secular law of the land does not define as murder.
“An authentic Christian anthropology allows one to see the image and likeness of God in the very people CC helps to murder through her fundraising. The scriptures tell us that the more broken and destitute a human is, the more God identifies with them and implores our protection of them”
That is your religious worldview and not mine and certainly not the world view of pro-choice American Jews and pro-choice Christians who have a pro-choice view based on their interpretation of scripture. I was raised to believe, as you do, that the Catholic church is the one true church. Not everybody believes that. Not everybody believes abortion is evil. Such is life.
And Jack, throughout my social services career, I dealt with many girls and women whose pregnancies meant that they would stay in a dysfunctional, poor environment. I never told them that they should abort because I believe in freedom of choice.
Their pregnancies would have forced them to stay in dysfunctional circumstances? So, there was no possible way for them to keep their children and find help? Says who?
“CC is caught up in a murderous rebellion against the Catholic Church for events she misinterpreted as a child”
“Misinterpreted” – excuse me? The priests in my parish encouraged the women congregants to have as many children as their bodies could bear. Monsignor T said, from the pulpit, that married women who used contraception were sinners. Only children, as I was, were held in contempt and their mothers accused of putting themselves before doing their duties to ”god” and the Pope to produce babies. Those families with a multitude of kids were held up as examples of godly Catholicism – never mind that several of the mothers had substance problems, their husbands were doing it with their cute, young secretaries (who did go to Planned Parenthood), and the kids were major league druggies. But in the eyes of the church it was all good. This is the world that today’s anti-choicers still inhabit. Ah, the good, old days.
“Their pregnancies would have forced them to stay in dysfunctional circumstances? So, there was no possible way for them to keep their children and find help? Says who”
Due to financial constraints and lack of cheap housing, some stayed in situations that were less than optimal, If they left, they went to shelters which were overcrowded and, in some cases, as dysfunctional as the situations that they left. At this time social service programs were being cut to the bone and I don’t think that this has changes. And as far as churches, there was only a limited amount that they could do as they were -and are - facing severe budget shortfalls.
“But please, if you think that children live happily ever after a trauma such as rape….”
Wow! You got me there, CC! You are absolutely right! Suicide or happily ever after are the only ways people can live their lives. Nobody lives in between these two extremes.
How wonderful that you worked with children! Did you tell them to their faces that their only options were “happily ever after” or suicide?
How fortunate are these children to have you around! To think they got you instead of some terrible person who would tell them that their life has value even though it is difficult. Wow, they sure got lucky!
Ah, so the women who had abortions lived all hunky dory and never had a serious issue again. Gotcha.
In all seriousness, I know social services suck, and I know poverty is an issue. But killing unborn children isnt a solution to it anymore than killing born children. Throwing a whole bunch more misery and trauma on top of already bad circumstances isn’t helping.
CC, you might have read more of the excerpt that has been published online (for example, in People magazine). Apparently her children are doing very well and interacting well with other children. The solution you offer is death. Who are you to say that these children’s lives are unlivable? Despite what they’ve been through, there are still many beautiful possibilities for Jaycee and her children.
CC lives without hope.
After all Jaycee has been through she embraces the life she has now and is grateful for EVERYTHING she has.
Maybe someday CC you will be as free as Jaycee.
never mind that several of the mothers had substance problems, their husbands were doing it with their cute, young secretaries (who did go to Planned Parenthood)
A lot of good being cute and going to PP did them, huh? Apparently, they had it so good that they didn’t have the self-respect and respect for others required not to put-out for a married man with a wife and kids who obviously had no intentions of forming a long-term relationship with these girls. GOOD ‘OL PP, FOR “EMPOWERED” WOMEN! 9_9
Hello Alexandra, 4:49PM
As always so good to see you here. What a very moving account. I hope all is well in your life now.
Hi Carla, 7:35PM
Jaycee and her daughters were all the innocent victims of a horrific crime. What about the horrors of Jaycee’s captivity, loss of her childhood, and the abuse she endured for years? What about the failures of a “justice” system that turned a predator like this loose to vicitimize Jaycee in the first place? I haven’t heard a word of outrage from abortion advocates over this, only the fact she had two children, whom by the way she adores.
Apparently abuse and rape are only bad when they result in children.
WOW! Great post prolifers, thank you so much for sharing your stories. You may be “casting your pearls before swine” figuratively to pro-deathers like CC but there probably are many who are being helped by your stories. Thanks Jack, for sharing your difficult childhood and Alexandra for sharing your story as well. For anyone who has not heard Ryan Bomberger’s story he has a short video on his website toomanyaborted.com that relates that he was the product of rape and adopted by a wonderful family and is making a difference all over this country. He is so glad his birth mother chose life.
There are many quite impactful lives that resulted from rape. Jack London, the author of “Call of the Wild”, and the evangelist James Robison are just two.
My hobby is gardening. Sometimes, when I put off weeding too long, you get surprised by the nice flowers that result from plants I would have targeted.
All the more reason we should keep our mitts off children of all ages, and let them grow to their God-given potential.
Hi Mary!!
As I recall Gerrado(sp)was released from prison because he was deemed “no threat” in prison. How many little girls were available for him in prison to rape?
Was it something like 60 times that his parole officers came to that house??? 60 TIMES??!! Jaycee even spoke with one of the officers!
I pray that she lives out the remainder of her life with her precious daughters and mother in peace and surrounded by love.
PS
I have given up seeing any appropriate outrage from those that are proabortion.
“As I recall Gerrado(sp)was released from prison because he was deemed “no threat” in prison. How many little girls were available for him in prison to rape?”
This stuff I will never, ever understand. Why child molestation isn’t punished with automatic life without parole, I will never know. It’s the only murder that leaves living victims. I bet if the penalties were harsher, some victims would feel safer coming forward, knowing that their abuser wouldn’t be able to get out and come after them.
“Jaycee and her daughters were all the innocent victims of a horrific crime. What about the horrors of Jaycee’s captivity, loss of her childhood, and the abuse she endured for years? What about the failures of a “justice” system that turned a predator like this loose to vicitimize Jaycee in the first place? I haven’t heard a word of outrage from abortion advocates over this, only the fact she had two children, whom by the way she adores.
Apparently abuse and rape are only bad when they result in children.”
Mary, I don’t think there is any difference of opinion regarding the fact that Jaycee and her daughters were all the innocent victims of a horrific crime. Would you feel better if we all chimed in and shared our outrage over this criminal and his evil acts? I think you can safely assume all those who come to this site feel the same way about this crime.
Except for CC, who thinks they should be ashamed of having a rapist for a father.
Amazing exchange on this thread. How awesome an example we have in Jaycee Duggard. While the feminazi’s cry only for the death of innocent children, they are strangely silent on the crimes of her captor and his equally guilty wife. Crickets chirp. Tumbleweed blows by.
Sometimes, as our comments show, people with great-seeming families can struggle with mental illness and physical illness. And, as Jaycee shows us, sometimes fractured families can find love and comfort in each other, building up strength that they can now use to start their new lives. Her daughters can be anything now: doctors, teachers, business owners, dancers, and more. The only thing abortion advocates would have offered these girls was death and to return Jacyee to her captors. Someday, a woman like CC might find herself in an emergency, and the person who saves her life just might be a grown up whose childhood was terrible. Rising above our circumstances is the best of what we can do.
Congratulations, Jaycee, on your fresh beginning.
Hal,
Some here emphasize the pregnancy, not the crime of rape itself or the lenient treatment sex offenders all too often receive from our “justice” system. That was my point.
“My mother went to her grave with so many anger issues.”
You may not be able to see this CC but you mom didn’t take her anger with her to the grave. She left it with you and you share it with others.
Use your free-will and break the cycle of anger. If Jaycee can do it, anyone can.
“Except for CC, who thinks they should be ashamed of having a rapist for a father”
There you go again misrepresenting what I said. I merely pointed out that, for a child of rape, there is the reality that their father is a rapist and that makes it very difficult for them. And yes, there are plenty of kids whose fathers are less than stellar. On another post, which you clearly didn’t comprehend, I said that I would never tell a woman what she should do with her pregnancy despite my feeling that an abortion would be the best option – in the same way that you feel that having a baby is the only course of action for a pregnant woman. I have never and would never say that a person should never have been born. When you accuse me of this, you appear to be projecting some of your own insecurity on me and that’s your problem, not mine.
While some women lovingly accept the children of rape or at least claim to, not all women are so blissfull. Your effort to say that lemonade can be made of lemons (a comment about rape made by the defeated GOP Senate candidate, Sharron Angle) appears to be just another way to rationalize your belief that abortion should be criminalized in cases of rape and incest which is not a majority position even amongst those who claim to be pro-life. While a large section of the population supports, to some degree, the notion of “pro-life,” you lose people on the rape and incest thing. The reality based community feels that to force a rape victim to bear a child is barbaric – particularly in the case of a child being raped and impregnated which is happening in areas of civil strife in Africa.
The dehumanization of rape is bad enough. But to force a victim of rape to bear a child she doesn’t want, which is what you want, is even further dehumanization which adds to the trauma that must be dealt with through, hopefully, effective counseling. Forced birth just compounds the crime. At least now, women have a choice. In your world, they wouldn’t and that, I believe, is truly criminal.
And again no mention of THE CHILD in utero who is conceived and is sentenced to die by abortion.
Abortion does not heal rape. Looks to me that Jaycee’s children gave her at least TWO reasons to live. They brought beauty and hope out of something horrifying.
How about we go after the perpetrators of rape and condemn them for the the crimes they are guilty of instead of sentencing an innocent human being to death?
Reminder- less than 1% abortions are for rape.
I have never and would never say that a person should never have been born.
You just put this crap on them instead :
When the conceived in rape child reaches grammar school and other kids are talking about their daddies, this kid can proudly proclaim – my daddy was a rapist and kidnapper. “Healing dynamics” - what world do you live in? These kids will face a lifetime of psychotherapy if they don’t commit suicide by that time. But it’s just so beautiful when women bear the children of rapist – their “baby daddy.”
If you could recognize the rage in your mom, you should be able to recognize it in yourself. You are the poster girl for “the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.”
You are not the judge of whose life is worth living or not.
Carla says:
July 18, 2011 at 7:56 am
And again no mention of THE CHILD in utero who is conceived and is sentenced to die by abortion.>>
(Denise) In order to live, the unborn must live inside the body of the pregnant female. In the case of the rape victim, her body must swell and swell and she must feel moving inside of her the result of a brutal and traumatic attack. She is continuously reminded by her body of the attack. She must walk around in public with her body swelling with the result of the rape while people see her belly and say, “Congratulations.” Is it any wonder that SOME females will not be able to tolerate this and may either abort or commit suicide? Is it so unbelievable that a woman would be so traumatized that she would stab that butcher knife into her belly?
<<Abortion does not heal rape.>>
(Denise) No, it does not. She must live with the memory of the rape even if she does not get pregnant. She may be psychologically wounded in the absence of pregnancy. Heck, oral and anal rapes are traumatic even though they don’t involve the possibility of pregnancy.
While abortion hardly “heals” rape, it may be desperately desired by the raped female who can’t stand this constant reminder of the attack.
<<Looks to me that Jaycee’s children gave her at least TWO reasons to live. They brought beauty and hope out of something horrifying.>>
(Denise) Yes, they did.
How about we go after the perpetrators of rape and condemn them for the the crimes they are guilty of instead of sentencing an innocent human being to death?
(Denise) We already do that. Rapists who are caught and convicted can serve very long prison sentences. How about we try to change the conditions that lead to little boys growing up to be rapists? That doesn’t mean more abortions. That means working to encourage marriages before births, to alleviate the problems associated with poverty, and to help little boys who have been sexually abused. It means trying to assure that little boys enjoy childhoods in which they are loved and encouraged in positive ways.
<<Reminder- less than 1% abortions are for rape.>>
(Denise) Very true. Yet any discussion of this issue invariably becomes a discussion about rape. Part of this is that people can argue that the female contracted to endure the possible ordeal of pregnancy when she voluntarily engaged in the act that can lead to it. I personally did not engage in this act prior to when I was 24 and had made pregnancy virtually impossible through a tubal ligation.
Another reason is that people tend to be more sympathetic toward rape victims than toward those who voluntarily engaged in the sort of sex that can lead to pregnancy.
Hey Denise,
ANY WOMAN who is raped needs counseling and therapy.
ANY WOMAN who wants to continuously harm herself and the growing child within her needs serious help.
Any woman who has been raped will deal with the memory of that rape. You may want to address the women that comment here that have been raped and how they have overcome. Abortion does not erase the memory of rape. It is a secondary trauma to the first.
ANY WOMAN who looks at her “swelling” body and only thinks of the rapist needs help.
Pregnancy does indeed involve a child. HER child. The moving inside of her is the movement of her child.
Good grief. I feel as though I have done this with you before Denise. Now you will start to write up all of these horror stories of women who have done heinous things to themselves.
Back to Jaycee…..she does not look at her beautiful children as reminders of her violent attacks.
Another reason is that people tend to be more sympathetic toward rape victims than toward those who voluntarily engaged in the sort of sex that can lead to pregnancy.
Should we not be?
How about we try to change the conditions that lead to little boys growing up to be rapists?
A huge way to do this is to make abortion illegal. When boys are brought up in a society that honors the unborn rather than advocates their objectification and killing, they are more likely to honor and respect women.
Abortion protects and enables rapists and irresponsible men.
Jaycee and her girls have figured out what’s most important in life already. They will be just fine.
“A huge way to do this is to make abortion illegal. When boys are brought up in a society that honors the unborn rather than advocates their objectification and killing, they are more likely to honor and respect women.”
Rapes occurred pre Roe v Wade. Obviously, the little boys who were brought up to honor the unborn didn’t honor and respect women. Obviously, this teaching didn’t affect some Catholic boys who grew up to be priests and who then raped children especially in Catholic Ireland which has always had a strict prohibition on abortions. And back in the “good old days” when men “honored” the unborn, our legal system was definitely not on the side of the rape accuser who was oftentimes painted as a “slut” who was “asking for it.” Thanks to feminists (pro choice as well as pro life) laws were changed to make rape prosecutions easier on the women. When abortion becomes illegal, the lives of women are expendable. So much for “honoring” women. We don’t need your kind of honor which is no honor at all.
“Oh, and my mother might have been the product of rape as her mother never disclosed who her sperm donor was. My mother went to her grave with so many anger issues. She was never, ever, able to accept the circumstances of her birth.”
Case in point why children should be conceived to a mother and father committed to eachother for life. I beleive there are consequences for any children with any kind of dysfunction, rape, abandonment, etc. Most of my friends aren’t victims of rape, but their mothers conceived them with strangers and they don’t even know who their fathers ARE. Yes, this has HUGE consequences for them, even as adults. The right answer though is not to KILL THE CHILDREN who are victims of their parent’s selfish choices to conceive them in bad circumstances. The problem is men and women having sex/conceiving children in these circumstances- and the children are merely victims.
CC, you support the cause of these children’s victimization, but suggest the only way to fix it is to kill them. It IS possible to oppose any/all victimization of children, but that would mean expecting adults to act less selfish and more responsibly.
CC, Yeah, rapes occurred pre Roe v Wade and so did other crimes. I don’t believe 1/3 of females were raped nor a big percentage of males as well. Women and children were not objectified like they are now. Divorce was not as rampant as it is now. Twelve year olds did not have friends with benefits. Women were not aborting at the rates they are now. STDs were not everywhere. People waited longer to have sex and had less partners.
There is your hatred of Catholicism again as if Catholic males rape at a higher rate than other males when we all know that is not true. You may want to argue that homosexuals that claimed to be Catholic raped at higher rates and you’d be closer to your target.
Some leaders in the Catholic Church predicted exactly what has happened to happen after Roe v Wade was passed. I heard them talk about it myself. I’m sorry for your poor experience with some who claimed to be Catholics but please understand that your experience is not across the board.
Thanks for giving prolife women some credit for making rape prosecutions easier. I just believe our rape laws would be stronger yet had all feminists remained prolife.
Abortion did not need to become legal in order for rape prosecutions to become stronger.
CC says:
When abortion becomes illegal, the lives of women are expendable.
Every year in the US approximately 600,000 girls are slaughtered in the womb, sold for parts, and the remainder tossed in with the medical waste. How much more “expendable” can women be?
yes – and what about the new FDA paper stating the difficulties with RU-486 – the abortion drug duo – which resulted in women coming for abortions dying, needing serious medical intervention (transfusions/hospitalizations) and the like. And that was in the US – and those numbers are from a few years ago – and as we know that in Illinois – thousands of negative outcomes and difficulties were not properly reported from ‘safe/legal/rare’ abortions, just in the past year alone.
I’d say that Planned Parenthood really makes women’s lives expendable – from fostering a ‘free-for-all’ sexual life resulting in STI’s, etc, the senseless slaughter of preborn children (including females), looking the other way when minors have abortions or are taken advantage of older predatory men – or encouraging women to take dangerous hormones (class 1 carcinogens by the World Health Organization) without understanding the consequences or even their own medical history and not talking about the consequences of abortion – including infertility, dangers etc.
I’d call that expendable.
For those of you who believe I favor rampant partnered sex: I believe we should revive the custom of chaperoned dating so that young people will get to know each other instead of plunging immediately into intimacies that are apt to be destructive.
Carla says:
July 18, 2011 at 9:11 am
You may want to address the women that comment here that have been raped and how they have overcome. Abortion does not erase the memory of rape. It is a secondary trauma to the first.
(Denise) Then perhaps the question of legality or illegality of abortion is irrelevant. Females who’ve been raped aren’t going to want to go through a “secondary trauma.” They will always carry to term regardless of what the law permits or doesn’t permit.
I tend to not use the words “always” or “never.”
Again I realize why I do not like talking with you, Denise Noe.
Rape victims abort at a rate slightly lower than the general population. In fact, an embryo has a better chance at survival in the womb of a rape victim than in the womb of any woman living in New York City who experienced consensual sex.
What concerns me about all the comments I’ve read is the silence about this heinous man and his accomplice wife who stole a young girl’s whole life. Except for aborting the children conceived in rape, feminists have NOTHING to offer. NOTHING. What kind of woman helps her husband keep an 11 year old imprisoned?? No outrage for her, abortion advocates???? Aren’t you at least angry, abortion advocates, that she didn’t take Jaycee to Planned Parenthood? I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t have turned them in to the police if you’re worried about poor little Missus Kidnapper and her empowerment. Do I take the silence as complicity? So you think it’s ok for an adult woman to help her husband keep a child as a sex slave? Really?
I will petition the Blessed Mother to intercede on our behalf: We nag your son all the time to heal our world and restore the dignity and love of life to all people. Please pray for us and pray for the healing of all humanity. Please help your son to heal my heart as well, because I am spittin’ mad about how little regard people have for the dignity of young people. I ask this in Jesus’ name, Amen.
“No outrage for her, abortion advocates???? Aren’t you at least angry, abortion advocates, that she didn’t take Jaycee to Planned Parenthood? I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t have turned them in to the police if you’re worried about poor little Missus Kidnapper and her empowerment. Do I take the silence as complicity? So you think it’s ok for an adult woman to help her husband keep a child as a sex slave? Really?”
This comment goes beyond the usual verbal histrionics into incoherency. How could you possibly think that those who are pro-choice defend the heinous acts of kidnapping and rape? What does feminisim have to do with two deranged individuals? For you to say that we wouldn’t have turned in these vile example of humanity is beyond offensive. It’s bizarre. So simmer down now and say a few more prayers.
ok – so CC and others – denounce the actions of this man and woman against this girl. Say it straight up on the blog. Say that they violated Jaycee’s dignity, body and spirit. Say that they should be prosecuted beyond belief to the full extent of the law. Have compassion for Jaycee and others in a similar position.
And while you are at it – how about some compassion for the other victim(s) here – the children and the family and friends of Jaycee and others in her position. why not have concern for those who can not defend themselves, and ultimately might pay with their lives for the sins of the father and his accomplices – the unborn? Why not extend that outrage to their violation of their bodily dignity? Why not come to their defense?
They are part of our human family and deserve nothing less than full support – for their bodies, and their lives.
Spittin Mad, huh ninek I call it justified anger. I’ll join ya in petitioning Our Lady.
Our Lady of Life please ask your son Jesus for the end of abortion, and for the conversion of all those involved in the Culture of Death.
to CC: Yea, well, I’ve seen abortion advocates do NOTHING except call for the death of developing children conceived in rape. In fact, you went into histrionics about Catholic priests YET AGAIN, but absolutely NO CONDEMNATION of this couple until my comment today. Still, you accuse ME of being bizarre.
No, what’s bizarre is the fact that you care much more for adolescent boys than you do for girls of any age. Now, for me to say you wouldn’t have turned in these vile examples…uh, hello McFly!? Planned Parenthood is not in the business of helping abused girls and we all know it. Their business is abortion.
For Alexandra: Do you think you gained something by your illness since it might have prevented you from the sort of romantic and social relations that lead to problem pregnancies?
I think there is a sense in which some illnesses and disabilities might accomplish something by preventing both abortions and the births of children who will not be well-treated and cared for.
CC: “How could you possibly think that those who are pro-choice defend the heinous acts of kidnapping and rape?”
It’s a really easy mistake to make. When dealing with moral monsters, some pro-life folk forget that you’re not morally monstrous in all ways.
I counsel patience.
“NO CONDEMNATION of this couple until my comment today. Still, you accuse ME of being bizarre”
The topic was about how babies, born of rape, can be a blessing. Prior to your comment, I said this:”But please, if you think that children live happily ever after a trauma such as rape, then please..”
And this: “The dehumanization of rape is bad enough. But to force a victim of rape to bear a child she doesn’t want, which is what you want, is even further dehumanization which adds to the trauma that must be dealt with through, hopefully, effective counseling.”
Ergo, while I did not mention the Garrido’s, specifically, it went without saying that I was appalled by this abuse. D’uh. Seriously, Ninek, you’re doing a lot of digging but so far you’ve got bupkis.
“moral monsters.”
okay then.
Condemning the horrifying acts of Garrido does not “go without saying.”
SAY IT, CC!!
We condemn the horrifying act of abortion every single day here. It doesn’t “go without saying.”
“I’ve seen abortion advocates do NOTHING except call for the death of developing children conceived in rape”
Really? The women who staff our state’s rape crisis center who provide legal and counseling assistance for rape victims are also pro-choice. Next….
“No, what’s bizarre is the fact that you care much more for adolescent boys than you do for girls of any age”
Wrong again. I care for all children who are violated and have hours logged into our Family Court system to prove it. But as I don’t believe that a female fetus is a “person” and that women and girls have the right to an abortion, I guess I support child abuse! That’s what you’re going to say, right?
“There you go again misrepresenting what I said. I merely pointed out that, for a child of rape, there is the reality that their father is a rapist and that makes it very difficult for them. And yes, there are plenty of kids whose fathers are less than stellar. ”
I’m not misrepresenting what you said. You very deliberately made mocking comments about children who have a rapist for a father. Yeah, that means that you think it reflects on them, somehow, and is shameful.
“On another post, which you clearly didn’t comprehend, I said that I would never tell a woman what she should do with her pregnancy despite my feeling that an abortion would be the best option – in the same way that you feel that having a baby is the only course of action for a pregnant woman. I have never and would never say that a person should never have been born. When you accuse me of this, you appear to be projecting some of your own insecurity on me and that’s your problem, not mine.”
You say you would never tell anyone they should have an abortion. But you create an attitude, along with other pro-choicers, that life isn’t worth living in some circumstances. That encourages a culture that shames those of us who have rapists for fathers, or were unwanted, or were abused, or very poor, or whatever else that you guys want to claim is a reason for abortion. Whether you directly encourage someone to abort or not, you are creating a culture that is placing a stigma on those who may choose to keep their pregnancy otherwise.
I’m projecting? No. I’m really rather offended, but I am going off your actual comments.
“SAY IT, CC!”
Fine. The Garridos were a couple of truly sick freaks who should remain behind bars for the rest of their lives – behind bars in solitary confinement without access to books and computers. They are the scum of society. Fortunately, they were apprehended. Unfortunately, there are countless other adults who are abusing children and getting away with it. I’m just glad that Jaycees children didn’t grow up in that “household’ as Mr. Garrido would have sexually abused them, too. Sick, sick, sick.
Oh really? This topic is about babies being born? Then where do you come off with comments YET AGAIN about Catholic priests?
Don’t come on here a day late and a dollar short, and try to feign outrage about what happened to Jaycee. You would have just escorted her into your clinic and then handed her right back to her kidnappers.
CC quotes me: “I’ve seen abortion advocates do NOTHING except call for the death of developing children conceived in rape”
Then CC replies: Really? The women who staff our state’s rape crisis center who provide legal and counseling assistance for rape victims are also pro-choice. Next….
So, I rest my case. Thank you for proving me correct. Again.
CC,
You said it!!
AMEN to that!!
Thank you CC re comments at 2:57 pm.
Really? The women who staff our state’s rape crisis center who provide legal and counseling assistance for rape victims are also pro-choice. Next….
We need to work hard at changing this too. I talk with young people about getting into positions like this. The times they are a changing.
I’m just glad that Jaycees children didn’t grow up in that “household’ as Mr. Garrido would have sexually abused them, too.
Uh, I believe Jaycee’s daughters are about 13 and 17 so they have spent much time growing up in that household. Too bad they are too big to be aborted, eh, CC?
Unfortunately, there are countless other adults who are abusing children and getting away with it.
And abortion promised to stop abuse and bring peace into our country. I’m shaking my head because I have actually conversed with someone who talks the language of death the EXACT way that Catholic leaders predicted she would years ago. Eerie.
CC
“When abortion becomes illegal the lives of women are expendable”.
Oh, you mean women will not be treated with the equality and respect unborn Chinese and Indian girls are?
“despite my feeling that an abortion would be the best option”
Help me out…is there still no such thing as being pro-abortion?
Jack – you are exactly right about the climate they create. The attitude that women who go forward with pregnancies in difficult circumstances are making a poor decision (even if this is unspoken) leads to inevitable feeling that the kids who are born into these circumstances would be better off dead than (poor, unwanted, abused, fill in the blank). And it completely ignores the testimony of those who actually ARE born into these circumstances who are glad that they are alive; who like you and Jaycee manage to hold onto hope in the face of suffering. Theirs is a worldview of despair.
“despite my feeling that an abortion would be the best option – in the same way that you feel that having a baby is the only course of action for a pregnant woman. I have never and would never say that a person should never have been born.”
You’d never SAY it. But you feel that an abortion would be the best option, so you’re thinking it pretty loudly. And by thinking that an abortion for someone would’ve been the best option, you think that person should never have been born, whether you’d say it or not. Just because you don’t say something out loud doesn’t mean you’re not terrible for thinking it about them. “It’s the thought that counts.” Right?
While some women lovingly accept the children of rape or at least claim to, not all women are so blissfull. Your effort to say that lemonade can be made of lemons (a comment about rape made by the defeated GOP Senate candidate, Sharron Angle) appears to be just another way to rationalize your belief that abortion should be criminalized in cases of rape and incest which is not a majority position even amongst those who claim to be pro-life. While a large section of the population supports, to some degree, the notion of “pro-life,” you lose people on the rape and incest thing. The reality based community feels that to force a rape victim to bear a child is barbaric – particularly in the case of a child being raped and impregnated which is happening in areas of civil strife in Africa.
No wonder you guys parade that tired old rare, rare, RARE circumstance around so much. You think that’s where you’re gonna get your leverage. That’s why our side needs to have more people like Kelly Wright coming out and letting everyone know that they deserve their right to live just as much as anyone else in this world. “Reality-based”. Right. Because these people conceived in rape are just figments of everyone’s imagination.
The dehumanization of rape is bad enough. But to force a victim of rape to bear a child she doesn’t want, which is what you want, is even further dehumanization which adds to the trauma that must be dealt with through, hopefully, effective counseling. Forced birth just compounds the crime. At least now, women have a choice. In your world, they wouldn’t and that, I believe, is truly criminal.
“The dehumanization of being the child of a rapist is bad enough. But to force a victim of rape to be torn from his or her mother and killed because of the crimes of that child’s father or that they are ‘unwanted’ by their mother is even further dehumanization which is a trauma that no one can ‘deal with’, because they are killed in the process. There is no cure or help for someone who has been killed. That killing just compounds the crime. Now, women have the choice to become wrongdoers towards someone else themselves as a result of rape. In a just world, everyone would be protected.”
Fixed for ya.
The part of that quote that touches me the most is that about her struggling to teach her children with only a fifth grade education. I hope she and her daughters are given the opportunity to finish their education.
Isn’t an ounce of prevention worth a pound of cure? We can forever debate whether raped females should be legally allowed to abort or legally required to carry pregnancies to term. Shouldn’t we be discussing how to prevent these pregnancies in the first place?
More generally, we need to find ways to ensure that pregnancy isn’t a time of crisis so abortion isn’t even under consideration.
Denise Noe,
How to prevent these pregnancies? How about how to prevent rape? Is a rape resulting in pregnancy worse than one that doesn’t? What about the victim who is infected with AIDS? Murdered?
We could start with Planned Parenthood which has been caught covering up the rape of underage minors.
Forever debate? How about respecting the life and dignity of these children? Is that so very hard to wrap your mind around? Really?
Prevention? When an adult man and his wife work together to abduct and imprison an innocent child, I hardly see what you or I could do to prevent her becoming pregnant by him. That’s why I can’t believe the deafening silence (until today) from pro-choicers. Tell us, I’m all ears, how we could have prevented Jaycee Duggard from getting pregnant? Maybe Garrido and his wife just didn’t have access to birth control, right? If only Missus Kidnapper would have driven another mile to purchase a box of condoms. Yep. That would have made it all better.
Ninek,
you make an interesting point here.
You said
If only Missus Kidnapper would have driven another mile to purchase a box of condoms. Yep. That would have made it all better.
Frankly I think it would have made it somewhat better. If i was ever raped, I would want the rapist to wear a condom. I would feel an abhorent sense of violation either way and I know that it would mean he would be less likely to be caught if he didnt leave his specimen behind.
Still, knowing i hadnt been exposed to whatever disgusting diseases he might have and not being worried about pregnant would help in an already dark and disgusting situation
“Frankly I think it would have made it somewhat better. If i was ever raped, I would want the rapist to wear a condom.”
Wow.
And I thought I had read every crazy sentence the interwebs could hold.
Wow.
Stick a fork in me; I’m done.
“And abortion promised to stop abuse and bring peace into our country’
Where in the world did you get that statement from? The right to an abortion was defined as the right to bodily autonomy. I know. I was there. Were you?
“Where in the world did you get that statement from?”
You yourself have said that abortion will result in “fewer potentially abused children” on another thread.
“You would have just escorted her into your clinic and then handed her right back to her kidnappers.”
More inane and inaccurate histrionics from Ninek. Here’s the thing, Ninek. As a child protective worker I made damned sure that no abused child got anywhere near their abuser. The courts backed me up. But hey, whatever floats your fantasy boat.
ninek,
Interesting. You see no difference between a strange vile man, forcibly having sex with you and a strange vile man forcibly having sex with you AND ejaculating inside of you.
In an age of STDs/HIV I see a large difference
And while the conversation here is all about the beauty of Dugard’s pregnancy amidst the brutality of the rape, nobody has mentioned the absolute trauma of Elizabeth Smart, the young, accomplished Utah girl who had a similar experience except for the pregnancy. She was also the victim of a crazed rapist and kidnapper.
“You yourself have said that abortion will result in “fewer potentially abused children” on another thread.”
That was my opinion and I stand by it. It was not the basis for the lobbying for the overturn of regressive anti-choice laws. I was there. Were you?
“That was my opinion and I stand by it. It was not the basis for the lobbying for the overturn of regressive anti-choice laws. I was there. Were you?”
No, I had the joy of being born long after Roe and almost being aborted.
“We could start with Planned Parenthood which has been caught covering up the rape of underage minors”
No catching as the tapes were doctored and the Department of Justice isn’t prosecuting. And BTW, Planned Parenthood notified authorities. But yeah, we hate Planned Parenthood because hey perform legal abortions and provide legal contraceptives. Can’t have that, can we?
“No, I had the joy of being born long after Roe and almost being aborted.”
But you weren’t, were you. Your mother had a choice – something that you don’t want women to have.
“But you weren’t, were you. Your mother had a choice – something that you don’t want women to have.”
Oh yeah, my mother chose to have me. And hate me for my entire life. If my right to exist depended on her wanting me, then why in the world would I be allowed to live today? Humanity isn’t dependent on who wants or loves you, you get rights because you are a human being. Fetuses deserve as much rights as anyone else.
You are right, I don’t want women to have a choice to kill a developing child. Every other lawful choice on the world, that’s fine, but not to kill children.
If that makes me “anti-choice” so be it, call me whatever you want.
CC, 7:07PM
You know the tapes were doctored, how? Why were PP employees fired if this was all a setup? Authorities were not notified each time this happened.
Face it CC, your heroes were caught ready to cover child rape.
You know I hear a lot of talk about how having a rapists baby gave the mother hope and a feeling like she was not alone anymore… oh yes and the healing power of having a rapists baby…
I have just one question… what did she give her baby? This baby was born into captivity and sexual slavery. Had she not escaped her captors her children would have grown up to face the same abuse as she was facing… Why would you do that? Why would you want to bring a child into sexual slavery? Just for the company? Seems awful selfish to me…
There is NOTHING good about this story. NOT ONE SINGLE THING! There are just a few developments that make it all a little less tragic but not good in anyway. Please don’t try to make political points on this tragedy, she deserves better than to be a poster child for whatever anti-choice spin you have this week.
This story is just plain heartbreaking and the pain is not over yet for her or her children. Not by a long shot…
“That was my opinion and I stand by it. It was not the basis for the lobbying for the overturn of regressive anti-choice laws. I was there. Were you?”
This is all making sense now! CC, you don’t see the perspective of those of young people who have seen the fruits of a lifetime of legal abortion.
I’m in my mid-thirties, no spring chicken myself, so no disrespect to my elders intended.
But, I’m sure you’ve seen what Newsweek and Jezebel have reported on about the graying of the pro-choice movement. Newsweek called it a post-menopausal militia.
Is it no surprise that putting conditions on which type of children should be allowed to live has resulted in a dearth of people who will take your place?
Who is the pro-choice equivalent of young Lila Rose and her team? (Don’t say we don’t have an equivalent because she is a bad person and we’re not.) Show me one smart, well spoken, young pro-choice woman who has anywhere near the support of Lila Rose by young people.
You don’t have one. You might have had one, but she very well could have been aborted.
Whenever I go to a pro-life event I think….”Who would ever think that I would feel so happy to feel old?” The leadership of these young people is wonderful.
I understand why you are so bitter. It must be terribly hard.
Biggz,
Jaycee lived the horror as well. Does she seem to value her life any less?
Do any of us know what is in the hearts and minds of her daughters?
Pregnancy wasn’t Jaycee’s choice and she certainly didn’t have these children to satisfy some need.
Yes this story is indeed heartbreaking, for a number of reasons. Its also a story of rising from the ashes.
Where in the world did you get that statement from? The right to an abortion was defined as the right to bodily autonomy. I know. I was there. Were you?
I remember the proaborts screaming “Every child a wanted child!” Yes, they promised an almost end to child abuse. Do you think child abuse has decreased since Roe? Especially the sexual abuse of children? I also remember church leaders predicting the culture of death we now live in.
There is NOTHING good about this story. NOT ONE SINGLE THING!
There are three wonderful people that survived this story. All very good people. Jaycee said, “And then I saw her. She was beautiful.”
The proaborts know that Jaycee’s story is a positive for our movement. That’s why they see nothing positive in it.
Jaycee’s story is one of the most harrowing out there, and it shows her strength of spirit, so YES, there is something good about her story! She and her children survived!
She is proof that it is possible to survive horrific circumstances and still see some good in it. Jaycee’s own words prove that she LOVES her children. She called her firstborn daughter – a child conceived in rape, but a child belonging to HER – “beautiful.”
And you know what? Her children ARE beautiful. SHE is beautiful. The children’s father was not. And they are no less valuable because of his heinous actions.
Biggz: Just for the company? No, giving birth under any circumstance is giving the gift of life. “Some life!” you obviously think.
Why don’t you ask the children if they’re glad they were born?
Aren’t you glad you don’t have the chance to do that, inasmuch as their answer would make your point of view look really, really stupid?
But that’s what pro-choice is all about — arguing that some lives aren’t worth living. Always other people’s…
“Always other people’s… “- not when we also support euthanasia ;-)
Prax,
you said the proaborts know that Jaycee’s story is a positive for our movement. That’s why they see nothing positive in it.
How is Jaycees story positive for your movement. I think its sort of sick for Jaycees story to be used for anyone’s movement.
‘ Look the kidnapped child LOVES her rapists babies take that pro-choicers!
What does that prove, exactly? You think we’d rather her hate her children? Talk about how she wishes they were never born. Why are we trying to use this tragic story to say something about abortion when Jaycees story isn’t about abortion? Abortion was never on the table. No one is happy that Jaycee was stolen from her parents and raped as a child. And I really don’t know if Jaycee would have preferred to have been abducted because she got her children out of it, or wishes she wasn’t (and thus wishes her children were never born). I imagine she doesn’t think of it, because it doesn’t matter now. ??Jaycee made the best situation out of a horrible situation.
I would have trouble embracing the kids as my own. I would be tortured knowing I had children with a monster. I couldn’t handle it. But thank God Jaycee isn’t me! Not because it advances or doesn’t advance my political cause but because her feelings are the most healthy best feelings for HER. AT LEAST after all she has to cope with, she doesn’t have to cope with feeling bitter she has children with that horrible man.
FWIW: I looked up info about Jaycee’s kidnapper Philip Garrido. His father claims he was a “good boy” until a motorcycle accident as a teenager. Then his personality radically changed. This is possible. I’ve read of cases of “acquired psychopathy” after severe head trauma. What might happen is that the ability to empathize is knocked out of the brain. Deprived of empathy, the individual becomes a predator.
We probably can’t prevent pregnancies through rape under the circumstances of enslavement Jaycee endured. We may be able to do more for the general public. Reviving chaperoned dating might help prevent “date rapes.” More adult supervision of young people generally might help.
Many females are going to feel trapped if faced with having a baby of rape. The last thing a female who has just been through this trauma wants to hear is that she might be pregnant. Should we ensure a D&C is always done on fertile rape victims who report immediately afterward? Or ensure access to the morning after pill?
Should all fertile females who aren’t trying to get pregnant be on some sort of contraceptives?
You might support laws that prevent abortion of pregnancies conceived through rape. Do you believe that means victimized females will never try to abort these pregnancies? That they will all be able to cope with their bellies growing with the pregnancy? Some at least won’t. It’s best to prevent rather than haggle about awful “choices.”
Shannon,
You seem to overlook that these are Jaycee’s children as much as they are that “horrible” man’s. And I use the term “man” very loosely.
It strikes me as incredibly sexist to suggest that somehow the children are exclusively the children of rape. Or for that matter when only the paternal parentage of a child is emphasized. No, they are also the children of the victim, every bit as innocent as she is.
Interesting that it is ultimately the pregnancy that PC people find the most repugnant. If Jaycee hadn’t got pregnant, this whole thing wouldn’t be, well, quite so bad. If she had been found dead she would be another crime statistic. If she had been infected with AIDS, she would be long dead. But pregnant! Now that’s a horror beyond comprehension.
ninek says:
July 18, 2011 at 5:53 pm
Forever debate? How about respecting the life and dignity of these children? Is that so very hard to wrap your mind around? Really?
(Denise) The question would be much easier to answer if it were possible to transplant the unborn into the womb of a woman who wanted to carry and give birth or to nurture them in an artificial womb.
But it’s not.
For the unborn to live, the pregnant female is required to carry to term and give birth. If she dies — or forces them out — they die. For them to live, a special burden is placed on the pregnant female.
That’s why I emphasize prevention. Abortion is ugly. Forcing a female to carry and give birth against her will is also ugly — and to some extent not feasible. Prevention can be supported wholeheartedly.
Shannon,
I am sorry that you do not understand this story. I am sorry that you cannot comprehend that a mother’s love allowed Jaycee to overcome the crimes against her and gave her TWO reasons to carry on and live and make it and now she is free.
I am sorry that you are projecting your own feelings of not being able to handle it and would kill your innocent child over it. Choose yourself and your feelings over an innocent child. Lest you forget any child you conceive is YOURS.
Someday when you are a mother you just might have a clue what I am talking about. The first time you see that baby on ultrasound and hear that heartbeat maybe, just maybe you will understand.
Denise –
For Alexandra: Do you think you gained something by your illness since it might have prevented you from the sort of romantic and social relations that lead to problem pregnancies?
Not really – I was always a late bloomer when it came to dating so I probably wouldn’t have been romantically involved at that point anyway. And when I did eventually get into a relationship, around 23, I got unexpectedly pregnant; I’ve shared that story here before. So I don’t really credit my physical illness with any impact on my romantic life, positive or negative.
I do think it enriched my relationship with my mother, eventually; and without having lost my scholarship, I never would have found myself working in a high-pressure managerial role, in charge of a hundred people and millions of dollars. Those were valuable experiences for a 20-year old. I would never choose to be sick like that. But there is SOME good that can be pulled out of the worst situations.
I would have trouble embracing the kids as my own. I would be tortured knowing I had children with a monster.
Cara and Mary,
I am a little confused, genuinely, over your comments.
I really don’t get the point you are trying to make.
I did indeed say, I would not be able to handle havinng kids with a rapist. I wouldnt see them as mine and it is the one scenario that i would get an abortion without a second thought, that is just how I feel and as i said I am glad Jaycee doenst feel that way because it would make her recovery infinitely more difficult.
“Interesting that it is ultimately the pregnancy that PC people find the most repugnant. If Jaycee hadn’t got pregnant, this whole thing wouldn’t be, well, quite so bad. If she had been found dead she would be another crime statistic. If she had been infected with AIDS, she would be long dead. But pregnant! Now that’s a horror beyond comprehension.
I guess are you trying to say that conceiving with a rapist is good for a victim? I really am confused at your point. Don’t you both have children, I assume you like knowing who there father is and having him around and even picking him yourself. That is all i am saying, its not too complex, women like having babies with men they know and even like and when they don’t it often causes them huge distress.
Denise Noe says:
Should we ensure a D&C is always done on fertile rape victims who report immediately afterward?
Should all fertile females who aren’t trying to get pregnant be on some sort of contraceptives?
I just cannot fathom how these two suggestions would seem reasonable to you.
Wow Shannon. Really?
I said that Jaycee conceiving with a rapist was good for her? Please cut and paste where I said that.
An innocent child should never have to die for the crime committed(rape!)
Women can and do love their babies. Yes, even babies they have conceived in rape. They know it is not the innocent child’s fault.
That you simply cannot comprehend that shows where you need to do some more growing.
And you still cannot seem to grasp that a child conceived in rape is no different biologically than a child conceived in a happy, healthy marriage.
Fetus, embryo, toddler, teenager, adult. All stages of development in the life of human beings no matter their conception.
Lrning says:
July 19, 2011 at 1:16 pm
Denise Noe says: Should we ensure a D&C is always done on fertile rape victims who report immediately afterward?Should all fertile females who aren’t trying to get pregnant be on some sort of contraceptives?I just cannot fathom how these two suggestions would seem reasonable to you.
(Denise) Anyone interested in preventing abortions must be interested in preventing problem pregnancies since those — not the deeply wanted pregnancies — are the ones for which females seek abortions.
Carla says:
July 19, 2011 at 1:23 pm
And you still cannot seem to grasp that a child conceived in rape is no different biologically than a child conceived in a happy, healthy marriage. >>
(Denise) I grasp perfectly that the embryo or fetus of rape is identical to an embryo or fetus conceived in any other way. They all require someone else’s body to live. In order to live, the body of the pregnant female must swell and swell. She must walk around with the fetus growing inside her. People see her with an expanded belly. She must spend hours or days sweating and in pain for the birth.
Fetus, embryo, toddler, teenager, adult. All stages of development in the life of human beings no matter their conception.
(Denise) The embryo and the fetus are inside someone else’s body. Unless they are about 6 months along or further along, the embryo or fetus AUTOMATICALLY dies if the person carrying dies.
OTOH, a newborn is helpless but can be handed to someone else.
My last comment didn’t post but I pointed out what some of what has since been said.
Shannon, there are people who find out their husbands are rapists after they marry them and have children with them. Whether the criminal rapes his wife and/or other people, would this change your feelings toward the children you had with him?
In all fairness, there are prolife men who find out after marriage that their wife aborted their child behind their back, something prolifers know to be murder. Should this change his feelings toward the children he has with her?
Your “logic” does not enable you to fully love others nor forgive. It is your type of thinking that legalized abortion and has kept it legal this long. It’s is mindsets like Jaycee’s and Carla’s that will turn this evil back around.
Hi Denise Noe.
I wasn’t addressing you. That comment was meant for Shannon.
Some of the comments on this thread went straight to crazy town!! One of the pro-choicer’s comments is so vile, so disgusting, so unbelievably a sick projection of the commenter’s own mindset, I shall never honor said commenter by using said commenter’s name. Ever. Yuck. The comments made me want to take a shower just for being in the same room as a computer monitor that displayed the words!
I know I sound like a broken record, but the comments only further convince me that being pro-abortion is a mental illness. It clearly makes a person unable to think in logical terms and completely unable to follow a line to its logical conclusion. Methinks we need more math and logic in our educational system. I’m going to start saving money right away to send my relative’s baby to private school!!!!
Denise Noe says:
Anyone interested in preventing abortions must be interested in preventing problem pregnancies since those — not the deeply wanted pregnancies — are the ones for which females seek abortions.
An interest in preventing problem pregnancies does not necessitate that we “ensure” rape victims submit to an invasive surgical procedure just because they are “fertile”. Nor does a desire to prevent problem pregnancies necessitate that “all” fertile females that aren’t actively trying to conceive must be put on some kind of contraceptive.
Perhaps I misinterpreted your words, but it sounded like you were advocating for forcing D&C’s on fertile rape victims and contraception on all fertile women not actively seeking pregnancy.
Lrning says:
July 19, 2011 at 5:18 pm
Denise Noe says: Anyone interested in preventing abortions must be interested in preventing problem pregnancies since those — not the deeply wanted pregnancies — are the ones for which females seek abortions. An interest in preventing problem pregnancies does not necessitate that we “ensure” rape victims submit to an invasive surgical procedure just because they are “fertile”. Nor does a desire to prevent problem pregnancies necessitate that “all” fertile females that aren’t actively trying to conceive must be put on some kind of contraceptive. Perhaps I misinterpreted your words, but it sounded like you were advocating for forcing D&C’s on fertile rape victims and contraception on all fertile women not actively seeking pregnancy.
(Denise) Not forced but available and encouraged. Again some “choices” are automatically traumatic. It’s no privilege to have the “choice” between aborting and having a baby of rape. Fertile girls and women who don’t want to get pregnant should be on contraception since any female, however chaste, can be raped.
If you think I’m encouraging partnered sexual activity, I champion a revival of chaperoned dating and many other measures to cut down on it.
Fertile girls and women who don’t want to get pregnant should be on contraception since any female, however chaste, can be raped.
Why not fix all men and boys since we can never be sure who is a rapist?
What was that ninek you were saying about logic?
Praxedes says:
July 20, 2011 at 9:46 am
Fertile girls and women who don’t want to get pregnant should be on contraception since any female, however chaste, can be raped.
Why not fix all men and boys since we can never be sure who is a rapist? >>
(Denise) A vasectomy is permanent. I favor vasectomies for those men who don’t want to impregnate but it requires a permanent commitment and can’t be made by those who want to impregnate at any point in the future.
<<What was that ninek you were saying about logic?>>
(Denise) A female who isn’t pregnant can’t have an abortion. A female delighted to find out she is pregnant isn’t seeking an abortion.
Prevention, prevention, prevention is always better than trying to clean things up after the fact.
To prevent irresponsible and impulsive partnered sex, we should revive chaperoned dating and have greater adult supervision over young people.
I have read that something like 30,000 females in the US get pregnant through rape each year. That could be lessened and it should be.
Denise Noe says:
Fertile girls and women who don’t want to get pregnant should be on contraception since any female, however chaste, can be raped.
Well, you’ve managed to boggle my mind again. You’re proposing that every chaste 11 year old girl that has started menstruating and is now fertile should get an IUD or be put on hormonal contraceptives or pop a diaphragm in every day or use some other contraceptive due to the slight chance that she could be raped? Really? This seems reasonable to you?
Sorry, I would never “encourage” this insanity. Contraceptives are not without risks.
Lrning says:
July 20, 2011 at 1:15 pm
Denise Noe says: Fertile girls and women who don’t want to get pregnant should be on contraception since any female, however chaste, can be raped.Well, you’ve managed to boggle my mind again. You’re proposing that every chaste 11 year old girl that has started menstruating and is now fertile should get an IUD or be put on hormonal contraceptives or pop a diaphragm in every day or use some other contraceptive due to the slight chance that she could be raped? Really? This seems reasonable to you? Sorry, I would never “encourage” this insanity. Contraceptives are not without risks.
(Denise) Does it seem reasonable to you that an 11-year-old rape victim be told in the aftermath of this horror that she can look forward to either having a baby from it or choosing to abort?
The focus needs to be on the rapists and why our country continues to enable violence. Legalizing abortion enabled more violence. Supporting anyone killing an innocent human enables more violence. This isn’t rocket science but common sense.
Let me leave you with a 13 year old rape survivor’s own words Denice: “And then I saw her. She was beautiful.”
What more do you need to understand?
” Fertile girls and women who don’t want to get pregnant should be on contraception since any female, however chaste, can be raped.”
???????????
I guess when my daughter goes through puberty I will force her to go on hormonal birth control, cause hey, she might get raped!
What is wrong with you, Denise?
JackBorsch says:
July 20, 2011 at 3:21 pm
” Fertile girls and women who don’t want to get pregnant should be on contraception since any female, however chaste, can be raped.”
???????????
I guess when my daughter goes through puberty I will force her to go on hormonal birth control, cause hey, she might get raped!
What is wrong with you, Denise?
(Denise) She should be strongly encouraged to be on contraception. If she is raped, do you want her to face the prospect of pregnancy? Do you want her to start out her life with having either an abortion or a baby?
“She should be strongly encouraged to be on contraception. If she is raped, do you want her to face the prospect of pregnancy? Do you want her to start out her life with having either an abortion or a baby?”
I think the large chance of bad side effects from birth control for a young girl outweighs the relatively small chance that she will be raped and get pregnant. But when she is older it will be her choice what risks she wants to take.
And would rather takes steps to help prevent my kids from becoming victims or having unplanned pregnancy as best I can while they are in my house. Forcing my daughter to take contraceptives isn’t going to help her avoid situations that put her at risk.
Again – class I carcinogen from the World health organization – same as tobacco and asbestos.
Want to pollute people’s bodies? use artificial hormones. Want to pollute our environment? Use artificial hormones. Want to be sure men have license to hurt women thru rape? …make every woman/girl use artificial hormones.
Denise Noe – what if your daughter is one of the unfortunate ones who have a severe adverse reaction to the artificial hormones? Stroke anyone? Blood clots? Higher blood pressure? Possible future breast/other cancer? How about a double lung transplant (I know such a women – and it’s due to artificial hormones). Death? Pick one, and then explain again on how this health difficulty is more desirable for your daughter than the infinitesimal chance that your daughter might get raped, and the even more infinitesimal chance that she would be pregnant by that rape?
Being pregnant is not the end of the world. Being raped is tragic and terrible (and totally the guy’s fault). But thrusting the possibility of death and disability on all women, especially a loved one because of fear – is that truly desirable? Is that the best we can do?
Denise Noe says:
She should be strongly encouraged to be on contraception. If she is raped, do you want her to face the prospect of pregnancy? Do you want her to start out her life with having either an abortion or a baby?
I can’t imagine a doctor that would be willing to write the prescription for contraceptives for an 11 year old girl just in case she got raped. Because that would not be sound medical treatment. Denise, your suggestion is beyond ridiculous.
In fact, I think you’re playing with us. I sincerely doubt that any thinking person would believe that is an appropriate preventative action to take to avoid pregnancy due to rape.
Does not compute.
joyfromillinois says:
July 20, 2011 at 4:38 pm
Being pregnant is not the end of the world. Being raped is tragic and terrible (and totally the guy’s fault). But thrusting the possibility of death and disability on all women, especially a loved one because of fear – is that truly desirable? Is that the best we can do?
(Denise) Being pregnant through rape can be extremely traumatic and terrifying. Carrying the pregnancy can be experienced as utterly intolerable. The female may feel that she can’t stand having it grow inside her and walking around with her belly swelling as the result of a rape. She may feel compelled to abort — and many posters believe that abortion is the taking of a human life. To prevent this, putting the fertile female on contraceptives strikes me as well worth it.
As far as possible side effects, pregnancy has a multitude of painful and dangerous possible side effects including death.
To prevent this, putting the fertile female on contraceptives strikes me as well worth it.
To prevent this, fixing the fertile male (until he is married and he and his wife want children — then it can be reversed) strikes me as just as logical and less dangerous.
Denise Noe, I hope you don’t have any young daughters. While a good portion of parents are buying organic to avoid exposing their children to hormones, you’re proposing that they pump their daughters full of them just in case they get raped.
Unbelievable.