Planned Parenthood’s bad rap is all our fault
Last week pro-lifers with the Sacramento 40 Days for Life got wind that the local Planned Parenthood was holding a fundraiser at the local Chili’s and succeeded in shutting the event down.
Why? Planned Parenthood has become too controversial. Its brand is shattered. Why? In large part due to the investigative stings by Lila Rose and LiveAction.org, which uncovered Planned Parenthood’s willingness to engage in sex trafficking, misinformation, underage rape cover-up, and black-targeted fundraising.
Planned Parenthood hasn’t helped itself by actually being caught committing fraud against the government, covering up child rape, and failing to comply with parental involvement laws.
But whose fault is it that Planned Parenthood has become anathema to American society? Ours. Excerpts from an August 1 article in the Huffington Post by “Reverend” Tom David of the United Church of Christ (Obama’s denom), entitled, “Blessing (Not Cursing) Planned Parenthood”:
When legislators and the entire anti-abortion movement which drives them engage in “cursing” they first devalue the members of the group they are attacking, characterizing them as strange people with alien values. They then make endless and groundless charges against Planned Parenthood, seeking to stop its work. This leads to the “cursed” group being shunned by other groups (barred from United Way campaigns because it is “controversial.”) and the process continues until the people of the community begin to see the group as evil, a threat to families or at the very least, “not like us.”…
You know you are dealing with cursing when a person who works at Planned Parenthood has to think about how to answer when they are asked, “Where do you work?” If they say “Planned Parenthood”, will they have to defend themselves instead of enjoying a social gathering? The end result of all this cursing is that the group is placed outside the protective umbrella of social acceptance and, in effect, turned over to violence. And violence has come to Planned Parenthood for years in the form of physical harassment, arson and the murder of two of its staff.
Not to minimize the two PP staffers murdered by vigilantes, but to put them in perspective, Planned Parenthood has murdered five million people in the past four decades.
At any rate, the Left apparently believes pro-lifers are engaged in Saul Alinsky tactics, which falls under the purview of the Left.
But we don’t need tactics. We believe in the truth. And the truth is what is bringing Planned Parenthood down, not us. Because of the new media, we’re just there to tell it, when the Left/MSM covered it up in years past.
[HT: Pro-Life Wisconsin on Twitter]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Haaaa That is good…If we were cursed then why on earth would the life side be taking ground? And when we find out some one works for PP we ask them why and engage in a civil manner. I guess they have to make mountains out of mole hills (Not to minimize the bad things that some lifers did.) But what more do we expect from a group of people known for their lies?
I love this:
“But we don’t need tactics. We believe in the truth. And the truth is what is bringing Planned Parenthood down, not us. ”
Oh so true….
Ok, Mr. David…..I’m cool with the “cursing” (all except the fringe looney violence part, but they aren’t pro life folks any more than you are the ‘reverend’).
PP being anathema, socially outcast, outside the pale of social acceptance? If it takes “cursing” to get there, then I think I’ll take up cursing. There are plenty of other places that provide women essential healthcare without exclusion based upon age.
PS. Chili’s not such proud supporters now? Kudos to Chili’s for caving to the pressure. Good business decision, eh?
Animal protection groups never were too hot on Chilis. It is owned by Susan Komen. Her foundation sponsored cruel, grisly and pointless animal experiments. Ditto for the Multiple Sclerosis Society. No surprise both organizations wouldn’t give a crap about prenatal children and were quick to hop on the embryonic stem cell research money wagon. They are just schemes to funnel money to educated folks who ostensibly are looking for cures but first and foremost are looking for a paycheck. Neither has really done much for the folks suffering from the diseases they make their living from. It is an ingenious business plan. Look for a cure for the illnesses which are the most complex and least likely to ever be cured. They will have full employment for life.
So the pro-life movement is going after businesses? I thought conservatives love businesses. But I suppose that if you owned a business and you thought your patrons would be harassed, you would receive death threats, and your business could be firebombed, you might back down.
CC
Pro life should “go after” anyone and anything that supports the killing of human beings by elective abortion. People who firebomb and kill ‘innocent’ people are not pro life, so their methods aren’t counted among the appropriate and succsessful method of pressuring restauraunts with loss of business, a.k.a. boycotting. It’s an effective tactic employed by all manner of activists. Seems pro life boycotting Chili’s might be more serious to them than pro ‘choice’ boycotting Chili’s, hmmmmmmmm?
“Planned Parenthood hasn’t helped itself by actually being caught committing fraud against the government, covering up child rape, and failing to comply with parental involvement laws”
The link is to Americans United For Life which relies heavily on Lila Rose edited videos and unsubstianted accusations which have resulted in no prosecutions. As far as federal/state convictions of Planned Parenthood, there are very few - and in those cases, it was not the result of the sting videos.
CC – the pro-life movement is not going after businesses. They simply do not wish for businesses to support the most horrid business in the United States – and that is Planned Parenthood. Nowhere did Chilis get death threats, fire bombed or harassed. They simply decided not to support PP in such an open way as PP is too controversial.
Kudos to Chilis for cancelling their support. Would that other business would see how horrible PP is. Let PP implode on itself.
The Abortion fans hate religion, until a “reverend” tells them what they want to hear.
Outside the protective umbrella of social acceptance? You bet!! I hope that murdering developing children will ALWAYS be outside social acceptance.
CC – what happens to every baby that goes into planned parenthood whose mother requests an abortion?
Nice to know that the nice pro-life Christians don’t think that a denomination (UCC) that goes back to colonial times and is still a major faith community in the US, is not valid. I recall that one pro-life Christian, on this blog, said that Reformed Judaism, which is pro-choice, isn’t really true Judaism. This kind of thinking was popular during the Inquisition. Just saying…
Companies don’t like controversy. I was unsuccessful in getting ad sponsors for Right to Life of Michigan’s conference book. Planned Parenthood is more controversial than RTL because PP commits abortion, protects pedophiles and subverts the relationship between parents and children. If Chili’s wishes to support healthcare providers to low income, they can support “The Effort” or one of the other Federally Qualified Health Care providers in the Sacramento area. I live in Michigan and was able to figure that out. Planned Parenthood should be shunned.
CC – what happens to every baby that goes into planned parenthood whose mother requests an abortion
That fetus is aborted. And that’s the same thing that happens to fetuses that are aborted by physicians not at Planned Parenthood. Abortion – right now, still legal.
Or do you have evidence that Chili’s cancelled the event because they were afraid of the fringe kooks?
Nowhere did Chilis get death threats, fire bombed or harassed
But Planned Parenthood does have all these things happen quite frequently. But say you close Planned Parenthood down. Will your local doctors and clinics be able to absorb the patients displaced by Planned Parenthood? Or do you even care about that?
And as far as all those nasty allegations against Planned Parenthood? Any federal/state investigations? Any actual legal proof that this stuff is happening?
“Or do you have evidence that Chili’s cancelled the event because they were afraid of the fringe kooks?”
I was merely speculating on the possibility that they might be intimidated based on past performances of anti-choice radicals whom we have had some experience with in my state.
Does the fact that the denomination goes back to colonial times make it valid? I believe they had Wicca/paganism/satan worship back in colonial times also. Listen to the message, Christianity is not a denomination.
In my state there is a county health department in all 102 counties. There are only 850 pp’s in the US. County health departments provide all of the services that PP do, sans abortion. Besides 102 county health department, there are numerous low cost/no cost health clinics, state university health services, private physicians who take public aid patients, etc.,etc. The biggest lie perpetrated is that PP is the only place for women to get healthcare. And now that Obama has mandated that all birth control, STD screening and women’s health services are to be covered 100% by insurance, there is even more access to free health care. PP could vanish today, and there would be plenty of places for women to get free or low cost care. No one would even blink, except the abortionists.
“The most effective response to cursing is public support, especially by clergy and laypeople who can directly counter the religious attacks on Planned Parenthood with a religious defense of its work.”
Wow. I’ve never heard a religious argument for abortion. And I didn’t find one in the article either because the author didn’t bother to make any arguments or provide a religious defense. Instead he tried to convince us that Planned Parenthood isn’t entrenched in the business of abortion.
I would have liked to see where the Reverend finds “the right of a woman to determine her own reproductive life” in the Bible.
Does the fact that the denomination goes back to colonial times make it valid?
For them it’s as valid as your religion is for you. There is no “true” church despite the belief that only pro-life churches are such. The UCC is a respected part of the New England faith community. That’s a reality even if you can’t accept it.
“there would be plenty of places for women to get free or low cost care. No one would even blink, except the abortionists”
As shown by this article, that’s not entirely true.
“All Those Alternatives to Planned Parenthood? In Texas, At Least, They Don’t Exist”
http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2011/04/06/all-those-alternatives-to-planned-parenthood-in-texas-at-least-they-dont-exist/
There is only one Planned Parenthood in eastern CT (Killingly) and very few other options as this is a semi-rural area.
And in RI, we have no “county health departments.” Our state health department doesn’t provide health care services.
No,CC – neither you, nor I, nor the oldest organized denomination in the world have anything to do with the validity of Jesus Christ and His ministry and mission, or with God’s purpose in creating LIFE. God’s plan is not subject to our interpretation. He either is who He says he is or he is not. The creator is not subject to the created.
The UCC may be a big part of the “faith community” (whatever good that does your soul if it’s bound for hell), but if they’re “preaching another gospel”, then they are “anathema”.
“Reformed Judaism, which is pro-choice, isn’t really true Judaism.”
Yeah, well, some orthodox Jews will tell you the same thing.
The UCC may be a big part of the “faith community” (whatever good that does your soul if it’s bound for hell), but if they’re “preaching another gospel”, then they are “anathema”.
Anethema by your definition – the gospel according to you. It’s funny, pro-choice religious groups would never declare pro-life groups “anathema.” Wow, that sounds like something out of ”The Crucible.” It’s the kind of thing said in great Christian movements like the Crusades and the Inquisition when those who were anathema were burned at the stake. It’s the kind of thing said by the Westboro Church. It’s a word used by those who are very intolerant and narrow and that’s the pro-life movement in a nutshell.
So I take it that you feel that Reformed Judaism is anathema because they don’t accept Jesus and they are pro-choice?
So I take it that you feel that Reformed Judaism is anathema because they don’t accept Jesus and they are pro-choice?
Coming from someone who seems to believe all religions are crap, I don’t know why you harp on this other than you are trying to force feed us your own anti-Semitic verbiage.
Accusing others of intolerance rings really hollow coming from you, CC.
It is a direct quote from the bible out of Galatians. Paul is telling the church at Galatia that if anyone preaches a gospel other than the one he has preached to them, then that person is “anathema” in the eyes of God. If reformed Judaism doesn’t accept Jesus as God incarnate and the only method of salvation given to men, then according to the WORD OF GOD, they are bound for hell, and need to repent and call upon the name of the Lord for salvation.
The point is, CC, there is only one name under heaven, given among men, whereby you must be saved (Jesus). The bible from cover to cover is about love bringing forth life. Death is always a curse because of sin. Life is blessing. Death is curse. Anyone who tells you otherwise is ’anathema’ in the eyes of God. God’s word, not mine. I don’t judge the sins of Jews, God does, so I am free to offer them love and compassion and tell them about the true gospel without hate, and without pronouncing judgement upon them.
Westboro is a fringe looney group because they think salvation is by obeying the law. They totally blaspheme the grace of God as the method of salvation. They assume the role of God by passing judgement on people for their sins. That’s just as bad as assuming the role of God and by taking the life of an unborn human as far as I’m concerned.
And my question to you CC:
On what basis do you indict me of wrongdoing by quoting scripture? On whose authority? Based on your own personal beliefs? Based on a specific moral code? On what authority to you judge me or anyone else on this blog? On the authority of “the community of faith”?
Abortion is a moral argument, not a political one. Do you believe it is morally acceptable for one human being to kill another? On whose authority? Your own? Without moral framework, you can only say it is your opinion. So what makes your opinion correct? When you can bring a higher moral authority than the word of God to back your support of killing human beings, then we can talk, eh?
http://www.needymeds.org/free_clinics.taf?_function=list&state=ri
over forty clinics in RI, CC, that provide free/low cost healtcare.
PP could vanish today, and women would still get health services.
There was no protest, no threats, made towards Chili’s. We politely met with restaurant management and spoke with corporate representatives, explaining why America does not support Planned Parenthood, the number one abortion business in the world. The local manager agreed to the fundraising promotion because “when they approached me, they said they were just a local community healthcare clinic. That’s all I thought it was. I had no idea.” We talked to restaurant spokespersons about Planned Parenthood’s recent non-reporting of sex trafficking, their strong opposition to Parental Notification, the recent suspension of Planned Parenthood abortionist Jesse Joplin’s license, included quotes from Abby Johnson regarding their business plan to increase abortion numbers, referenced Silent No More and the harm abortion does to women, addressed the humanity of this “choice” and how many abortions are done each day, mentioned the investigations into fiscal mismanagement and governmental over-charges by Planned Parenthood, discussed their racist origins and more recent Live Action recordings, etc.
The event was not simply canceled, this was a huge open door to raise awareness about Planned Parenthood. Chili’s was not alone in this fundraising campaign for the abortion industry. Applebee’s, Big Spoon Yogurt, and Chevy’s have also had recent events for Planned Parenthood. Yet, they are now reconsidering their selection process and will not be supporting Planned Parenthood in the future.
I encourage everyone to be diplomatic, yet persistent, in making sure that Planned Parenthood does not raise funds within your local community. Corporate America is beginning to realize supporting abortion is unacceptable.
Yea no big deal let’s just skip over the two murdered PP employees at the hands of Pro-lifers…. and the multiple health center bombings…. oh and the murdered doctors…..
Let’s just talk about pro-life tactics that are “legal” or at least non-violent….
1. Wanted Posters
2. Threatening Letters
3. Name Calling
4. Blocking doorways and Driveways
5. Vandalism
6. Intimidation
7. Grotesque images on signs and billboards
8. Lying to minority communities
Quoting CC “And as far as all those nasty allegations against Planned Parenthood? ” saying that PP is not all that bad of an organization … then CC also writes – “That fetus is aborted. And that’s the same thing that happens to fetuses that are aborted by physicians not at Planned Parenthood. Abortion – right now, still legal.” when asked what happens to a baby when its mother goes into PP and asks for an abortion.
CC’s take is that yes, the baby’s life is terminated, but look, there are others who do the same evil deed and this part I am assuming – why in the world would anyone want to stop the horrible things done by abortionists?
CC – time to get real…
Biggz – two PP employees killed – that is tragic – certainly and not what any pro-lifer wishes to have happened. What about the three thousand babies whose lives are terminated every day by PP?
A quote attributed to Josef Stalin, the murderous dictator in Mother Russia – “the death of one person is a tragedy; the death of millions, a statistic”
Er… double troll alert, y’all (Biggz and CC); you might want to hold back on giving out the troll chow. Trolls never convert when they’re getting fed.
Funny that so many Leftists say pro-life is a violent movement…yes, a few isolated incidents of violence did occur, which is unacceptable, but the movement as a whole is most certainly not violent…we’re trying to prevent violence against unborn children. Yet often violent “left” causes like animal rights extremism and ecoterrorism are glossed over, apologized for, and even admired in the media…
Lee – you are talking about the termination of fetuses and zygotes not people with families and children’s of their own. What you are talking about in most cases is a small clump of cells. Most abortions are not the late-term abortions you guys like to use as examples. They are usually done much earlier than that.
Paladin – You morn so much for a dead clump of cells that might have been a person but actual people who were murdered for your ideology and whose families are suffering with their loss you have no compassion for…
Save the fetus but if it grows up to be a doctor then its ok to murder it….
Abortion is not murder according to the US Supreme Court and the American Medical Association… Shooting Doctors and Nurses is 100% murder according to every single government on the planet… So I ask you, who is the Troll here?
Since when does anyone gloss over extremist left movements?
Rebecca – “Isolated Incidents” LOL are you kidding me?!?!?!?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence
SO where are these Leftist violence numbers you speak of?
BTW there is no such thing as a “unborn child” they are fetuses or zygotes. You will not find the term “unborn child” in any medical text book… That would make my daughter an “undead child” which is just plain dumb…
:::sigh:::
Biggz, please get yerse’f an education.
http://goo.gl/YCRM6
Tons of academic info in there.
Oh, wait, you’re a picky fellow who wants a medical textbook! I’m so sorry, I misunderstood:
http://goo.gl/29DTW
This post took me all of 90 seconds to do, Biggz.
Ridiculously, you tethered whether medical professionals use the term “unborn child” to whether your daughter is an “undead child,” so now that we see medical professionals using the term in professional literature, if we’re to credit your implication with any intelligence whatsoever, it’s obvious that your daughter is, indeed, miracle of miracles, an undead child.
Or, of course, you can simply recant a ridiculous assertion you ironically made while imagining the contrary view was ridiculous…
So I ask you, who is the Troll here?
Er… you are, actually (among a few others). Trollism is a curable disease, by the way, so long as the patient is willing…
For everyone else:
CC: Pro-life intolerance? Heck, CC, all I have to do is imagine an insulting epithet against pro-lifers, Google it, and find plenty of examples. Let’s try “anti-abortion bastards!”
“The sheer stupidity of anti-abortion bastards never ceases to amaze me….”
“These anti-abortion bastards are only one prayer away from Westboro Baptists.”
“…we’d all come too far as women to let these anti-abortion bastards stop us.”
“damn you all rightwing anti-abortion bastards. you must all be killed to get? a taste of your medicine”
“I hope you’re reading this you little anti-abortion bastards standing on the corner of 17th Avenue with your posters”
“These anti-abortion bastards wave bloody fetuses, picket, and murder.”
That’s a few from the first of several pages of hits.
How about “motherf[etc.] anti-abortion” as a search term? Yep. Representative sample: “Yea but wouldnt you love to beat the f[] out wanna[sic] these pink shirt wearing mohawk motherf[] anti abortion f[]ers?”
Those were the first two that come to mind. Would you really like to do a “who can pee further” comparision of the two communities? I think you know “your people” better than to say “bring it on!” to a comparison of how the hatred and vitriol compare.
Wow, tried another for fun: “anti-abortion morons.” A rich field of search results.
Yeah, CC. Pro-life are the intolerant ones.
To be fair, there’s plenty of abuse from both sides. But claiming some kind of uniquely intolerant status for pro-lifers — trivially refuted.
rasqual – ok your right. I should have googled it before making that claim… However I was busy researching the rest of my post that you seem to have completely ignored. So your right I should have checked my assertion before posting it but i was floored by the assertion that Pro-life violence is just a couple of isolated incidents…
So where is this Leftist violence? I only listed the violence committed by Pro-lifers not all the bombings and murders done by Right wing extremists… I can list those too if you would like…
Rasqual – Try googling “Baby Killers” or “Pro-aborts” or “Wanted Posters”
We maybe be more vocal but you guys are more violent.
“We talked to restaurant spokespersons about Planned Parenthood’s recent non-reporting of sex trafficking…”
Oh, so a sex trafficking ring was actually busted? Do you have the names of the offenders? Have they gone to court yet?
@ Megan, take a look at these videos taken inside Planned Parenthood and let me know if they are providing legitimate healthcare for women http://liveaction.org/traffick
Oh yes the videos…. you mean the ones that Lila Rose turned over to the police that never brought charges against anyone? You mean the videos that are edited to look bad but when a detective or judge saw them nothing was done? You mean the videos that Lila Rose learned how to make by being James O’Keefe’s assistant? Those videos are as fake as Abby Johnsons lies. Notice that Abby never has any evidence to back up her claims even though she worked there in a position of authority and had access to all manner of documented evidence of crimes she says she witnessed? She is a liar.
Wynette – if anyone thinks abortion is the only service PP provides then they know nothing of PP. Ask the men who have vasectomy’s done at PP if it is healthcare? Ask the men and women who have been treated and cured of all manner of sexually transmitted diseases if they got HEALTHCARE from PP. Ask the millions of men and women who get free birth control from PP if they received healthcare at PP. Ask every health insurance company in the country if treatment at PP is Healthcare. And yes ask the women and men who have been to a PP for an abortion if they received Healthcare at PP?
Megan – there is no need to watch those heavily edited videos, just go into a PP yourself. You will see the truth with your own eyes and just try to ignore the propaganda and scorn that is hurled at you by protestors as you try to get to the front door of the health center.
Biggz: Um . . . who’s this “you guys?” I don’t consider murderers to be “pro-life” — and honestly I’m not sure what kind of gut-busting humor you’d employ to argue the contrary.
Former pro-lifers became murderers — certainly. There’s no denying that. Just like the guy lately arrested for planning to bomb a restaurant near Fort Hood was all against the last time someone killed in those parts — until he got busted for child porn and went bonkers.
There will always be folks who abandon principle. But at just that point, they’re no longer representing the principle with which they formerly identified (unless you’re a lame pro-choicer imagining he’s scoring rhetorical points at playtime).
Otherwise, Biggz, even forgiveness would be impossible. Just as being sorry for a wrong can restore relationships, flipping out and embracing the dark side can destroy life. A person who kills is no more pro-life than a forgiven friend is someone against whom you continue to bear a grudge. People transform in both directions — good and bad. And in both cases, we speak of how they were — and of what they’ve become. We don’t ridiculously claim that they’re the same both before and after. Choices matter. They show who we really are — not who trolls on the Internet want us to be for purposes of idle provocation.
But not withstanding all that, math doesn’t support your assertion that “you guys are more violent.” This is because you don’t know anything about the relative proportion of murders committed by “pro-life” people (it sounds so stupid to adopt your convention of imagining that murderers can be pro-life; it’s just unnerving to have to type such stupidity) to those committed by pro-choice people, or by people ignorant of or indifferent to the issue. You just can’t make your point without such knowledge — anecdotally considering 8 murders in a sea of what — over 330,000 in the U.S. during the same timeframe? If pro-life people murdered at the same rate as everyone else (geez, my fingers object to keying that in) before taking those 8 into account, the difference in rate for pro-life murderers (geez) and pro-choice murderers (that’s easy to type) would be dramatically less than merely the difference between many states — and since we’re assuming similar rates for pro-choice and pro-life, that would mean that one state’s pro-choice murders (discounting abortions, of course) would easily exceed another state’s pro-life murders. And vice versa.
Which means that what you’re saying is really dumb. Not only because you can’t know what you’d need to know to assert it, but even if you knew what you’d need to know to argue it, you wouldn’t be able to without resorting to “You California pro-lifers are more violent than us North Dakota pro-choicers” — or something comparably ridiculous.
BTW, Biggz, I know you’re a troll and all but I’m not and I can still troll you better than you can troll anyone here. The difference is that you’re obliged (as a troll) to ignore my rational points, whereas I’m free to engage even your irrational ones (are there other kinds in your quiver?) at will — dare I say, by choice.
Biggz: “Notice that Abby never has any evidence to back up her claims even though she worked there in a position of authority and had access to all manner of documented evidence of crimes she says she witnessed? She is a liar.”
So you’d rather she were a felon — stealing such documents so that she could later produce them for your satisfaction?
Not being a thief is evidence that she’s a liar?
Really rational, Biggz. Really rational.
Also, Wynette didn’t claim that PP didn’t provide other services. She said, “We…explain[ed] why America does not support Planned Parenthood, the number one abortion business in the world. [According to] the local manager ‘when they approached me, they said they were just a local community healthcare clinic. That’s all I thought it was. I had no idea’.”
Nothing in her remarks suggests that anyone thought abortions were the only thing PP provides. The manager apparently was simply unaware that abortions were one of the things PP provides in addition to other services.
The manager’s decision was not based on a delusion that PP does nothing but abortions. It was based on discovering that in addition to whatever, they also do abortions — and are in other ways unsavory.
Logic, Biggz. No — more fundamental still — reading. Use it. It’s really helpful!
Let me see. I run a restaurant which relies on patrons feeling safe and comfortable about entering it to purchase food. Suddenly I am faced with a dilemma. Do I bow to a quiet, peaceful group who won’t cause a ruckus or a group who will hold vigilante style protests out the front with grotesque signs and propaganda chants which cause most people to cross the street to avoid the ruckus. Intimidation much? A bit like trying to run a bikini shop in downtown Tehran.
“But whose fault is it that Planned Parenthood has become anathema to American society?” – is that why no-one uses their services? Abortions have stopped?
“Not to minimize the two PP staffers murdered by vigilantes, but to put them in perspective, Planned Parenthood has murdered five million people in the past four decades.” – really? Perspective? Individual citizens deciding on a legal course of action for themselves on an individual basis versus illegal acts of violence instilled by a movement.
Say what you want Rasqual, those murders still identify themselves as Pro-life while they sit in prison for murder… They receive money from pro-lifers and still have correspondence with pro-life groups like Operation Rescue. They are pro-lifers doing life in prison. Abby has ZERO evidence to back up her wild claims. ZERO!
There is this narrative that PP does not provide healthcare that was created by pro-lifers and can be simply debunked by just visiting a PP health center. That was my point. You seem to keep dodging my actual points.
I am still waiting to see the list of leftist violence???
“Ask the men who have vasectomy’s done at PP if it is healthcare?”
I defend the guy’s right to get snipped as much as a chick to get breast implants, but calling it health care is a stretch.
His complaint is that he is healthy and normal and wants the doctor to sterilize him which is the opposite of normal healthy function.
Just as a plaintive, shamelessly rhetorical reminder (shamelessly stolen from a bigger wag than I): for every time you feed a troll, somewhere in the world, a puppy dies. Let that haunt your dreams.
:)
I was having a bad day until I saw how riled up the abortion fans are; must be something good happening somewhere!!
Hippie thank you for your comment. Yes, trolls, you may not know this but Orthodox Jews think that aborting the Messiah would be a really bad idea. So, yes, any religion that tells you it’s ok to kill small children in the womb, that’s probably not a religion that I would recommend. I’m just a little silly cuz I don’t like dead babies filling up our landfills.
And perhaps it’s time to bring out our Crusade/Inquisition numbers again:
Over 400 years, approximately 200,000 people died. Most crusaders died of disease along their route. How long does it take the abortion industry to kill 200,000? Not very.
An interesting side note: Though only 25 women in total were involved in witch trials in New England, HUNDREDS of women go around telling people that they are reincarnated Salem witches! No one ever claims to be a reincarnated ditch digger. Hahaha!!!
Biggz: “Say what you want Rasqual, those murders still identify themselves as Pro-life while they sit in prison for murder… They receive money from pro-lifers and still have correspondence with pro-life groups like Operation Rescue. They are pro-lifers doing life in prison.”
So let me get this straight, Biggz — people who kill people identify themselves as “pro-life,” and you’re, like, “Hey, they say it — it must be true!”
Do you seriously mean to tell me that you can’t infer from the fact that someone has murdered that they are not pro-life — regardless of what they may say?
“Hey, they say it — we’re obliged to believe it!”
So you believe a convicted murderer. “Golly, it must be true!” Meanwhile, Abby’s never done anything like that and you reflexively call her a liar.
LOL
Biggz, you’re a hoot. You trust a murderer’s word, but because Abby’s a turncoat to your cause you deem her a liar. A turncoat to the pro-life cause, however, is deemed honest in saying he’s pro-life despite being a murderer.
Geez, Biggz, I couldn’t make up the stuff you say in the wildest drunken comedy club scripting sessions…
Biggz says:
I am still waiting to see the list of leftist violence???
I’m not sure what this tit for tat proves, but since you seem to be arguing that pro-choicers do not perpetrate violence:
http://prolifeaction.org/hotline/2010/attack/
http://prolifeaction.org/hotline/2010/vandalism/
http://studentsforlife.org/blogroll/pro-choice-vandals-desecrate-cemetery-of-the-innocents-display/
http://stmaryvalleybloom.org/prochoicevandalism.html
http://michellemalkin.com/2009/09/11/pro-life-advocate-murdered-in-michigan/
http://blog.secularprolife.org/2011/01/abortionist-gosnell-arrested-on-post.html
https://saynsumthn.wordpress.com/tag/ernest-robertson/
http://www.prolifecorner.com/node/145
http://www.operationrescue.org/archives/elderly-pro-life-activist-attacked-injured-in-flagstaff/
http://www.priestsforlife.org/brochures/maternaldeaths.html
No, no Paladin, those aren’t puppies, they are post-partum oversized canine fetuses and they are not alive unless their bitch says so.
(I can say that if it’s about dogs, right?)
Moderators, I just posted a comment that didn’t make it through with many links to satisfy Biggz curiosity about pro-choice violence.
“Reality”…. so you really think abortion supporters are “a quiet peaceful bunch who won’t cause a ruckus”? Here is a dose of “Reality” for you to view
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYCRqvvtj0Y&feature=related
Hello and apologies for the late reply. Some information on leftist violence (mainly animal rights extremism and ecoterrorism)
FBI profile of AR extremist Daniel Andreas San Diego, first and only American to be named a most wanted terrorist: http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/wanted_terrorists/daniel-andreas-san-diego
FBI information on ecoterrorism (admittedly a bit dated): http://www.fbi.gov/news/testimony/animal-rights-extremism-and-ecoterrorism
FBI domestic terror wanted list contains two communists, two black separatists, and the man who bombed the University of Wisconsin in 1970. All the rest of the wanted individuals (and all who were added in the past twenty years) are AR/eco extremists: http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/dt
ADL information on eco-terrorism: http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/Ecoterrorism.asp?LEARN_Cat=Extremism&LEARN_SubCat=Extremism_in_America&xpicked=4&item=eco
List of crimes (violent and otherwise) committed by AR/eco extremists, 1983-2010: http://www.naiaonline.org/body/articles/archives/arterror.htm
Anyway, this is just one example, to show that violent extremism occurs on the left, the right and everywhere in between. Any political or social idea that is remotely controversial will have some extremists. It’s repugnant no matter what the cause is. As for the media coverage, that’s my perception, people all perceive things differently. And I can call a fetus an unborn child if I wish, one’s choice of terminology is their free speech right. My point is just that violence occurs way too much. I never said or meant to imply that all leftists are violent, and neither should anyone say or imply that all pro-life supporters are violent or support violence. We should all discuss our views with dignity and not resort to terroristic actions.
Ninek,
:) I stand corrected! Silly me…
So…. what made those protesters violent and “possessed” Wynette? I saw rude signs. Some yelling. Using that crowd as an example is, uh, less than compelling.
Yeah, that was obviously San Francisco.
The crowd seemed well-populated with the same kind of folk who’ve enjoyed the outrageous, promiscous public sex at the Up Your Alley and Folsom Street fairs (sponsored by Miller Brewing Company — whose products I avoid).
San Fancisco’s activism is animated by contempt for anything redolent of traditional sexual mores. In protesting constraints (itself a good and natural libertarian impetus), it’s one place that’s shorn itself of even self-restraint.
Nancy Pelosi’s Congressional district has got to be one of the most ludicrous insane asylums on the planet.
Very entertaining Wynette. A disparate group of abortion rights, atheism, feminism and anti-paedophilia demonstrators.
Remind me again just how many anti-choice gatherings there are outside clinics every single day. And roadside vigils with a string of grotesque signs.
I don’t see pro-choice people constantly conducting rallies outside venues holding fundraisers for the cause that you support.
Like I said, intimidation much.
Yes “Reality”, it would be very difficult to recruit people to protest against organizations that provide housing, transportation, employment, clothing, groceries, rent assistance, childcare, meals, etc to women and children.
Jack,
Here’s something of a compendium of pro-legal-abortion violence, at least in the past few years:
http://www.abortionviolence.com/
(compiled by Human Life International)
Some of the more “nitty-gritty” data is in the secondary links/menus from that page.
One the question of violence from the left (San Francisco is generally peaceful — just crazy), I’m wondering whether Biggz is just wondering whether anyone here is aware of any, or whether he is genuinely ignorant of any. I think folks providing links (darned incomplete, above) are missing the point. You may be dealing with someone who is insanely deluded — who thinks, for example, that the last century was not one characterized by almost apocalyptic leftist violence. Never mind citing discrete instances here and there, if that’s the case. A thousand abortionists dying a year at the hands of idealists run amok would not be a hundredth as bad as the depredations and exterminations of the left in the last century (yes, I’m ranging beyond the U.S. borders, and no I’m not engaging in hyperbole). We’d flee to embrace the former if the presence of right-wing nut jobs would deter leftist ambitions domestically, understood in all their 20th century gory.
Fortunately that is not our lot. Political violence in the U.S. is rare — more rare by far than in the past. Even during the last century it was rare (mostly race-related). I suspect we’ll see more of it as the class warfare our demagogue-in-chief is fomenting blossoms, but even that will pale compared with the labor unrest of old.
Oh, I’m not denying there is violence on the pro-choice side, Paladin, I just think that video was very tame if you are trying to show it. Thanks for the link, though. :)
I’m a vegetarian and I think baby back ribs are disgusting… the name is creepy.
No Wynette, I don’t actually see people protesting outside Red Cross, Medecins Sans Frontieres or other genuine charities.
But then again nor do I see them constantly protesting outside certain churches, CPC’s or various other organizations whose strident ideologies or crimes they disgaree with.
I think it’s quite obvious who the guilty party is when it comes to the subject of intimidation of businesses and other organizations, even those who aren’t active participants in the pro-choice movement.
If restaurants are being oppressed for holding fundraisers, will it get to the stage where supermarkets are boycotted because PP employees buy their family groceries there?
I have an urge to mention something about gay marriage, black lists, boycotts and protests in front of churches. But I won’t.
Yeah, those poor Planned Parenthood people are just so oppressed. It’s unbelievable how it’s getting so you can’t be open about your business that murders children anymore. What is society coming to?!?
Reality: “I think it’s quite obvious who the guilty party is when it comes to the subject of intimidation of businesses and other organizations, even those who aren’t active participants in the pro-choice movement.”
In general, those who oppose a status quo are going to be more active than those who merely defend it. That’s a lesson of history in general.
With abortion, the places where abortion actually happen are kind of focal. It’s hard to find a place to protest against pro-lifers as such. If you protest at a CPC, you’re not seen as protesting resistance to abortion on demand, you’re seen as protesting other services to women in crisis. There’s nothing in a CPC’s operations that imply any kind of pernicious opposition to abortion, sufficient to warrant protest. By contrast, an abortion clinic indisputably is exactly the thing that is understandably a target of protest.
This is like some grand tautology.
As for restaurants and the like, I think it’s silly to imagine that pro-lifers are somehow the reigning champs in these frontier skirmishes. Just googling around for boycotts (it’s fun to change the terms, “pro-choice” “pro-abortion” “anti-choice” “anti-abortion”) finds plenty in swing from all quarters.
It begs the question entirely to dispute such matters. Some things are worth fighting for.
Alice, you made me LOL!
Oh, okay Wynette, so there wasn’t actually a sex-trafficking ring. Phew!
I wonder if Lila Rose is going to investigate the country’s family practice providers next–you know, the kind that work at private health clinics and major hospitals. They see thousands of adolescent patients every day–definitely room for some nefaaaaaaarious activity. The OB/GYN physician I sometimes work with provides comprehensive, CONFIDENTIAL sexual health care to her adolescent patients. She encourages them to talk to their parents about sexual health, but doesn’t disclose anything to them unless she thinks the teen is in imminent harm’s way. Why would teens tell their doctors anything if they thought their parents would find out?
Fortunately, this hospital isn’t a stand-alone clinic, and so it doesn’t usually have to deal with crazy protesters. Just a few months ago some wacko asked if I wanted to get breast cancer as I walked into a local woman’s health center. Whoops! How about I berate YOU about all of your medical decisions, Mr. Nosy??? (And btw, I was going in for my woman’s annual. Yay privacy!)
Yes Alice, a business which provides a range of legal and requested services, a small portion of which is abortions – gets oppressed! And I thought it was only places like Stepford where those who don’t meet the criteria of the self-appointed elite were shunned.
“If you protest at a CPC, you’re not seen as protesting resistance to abortion on demand, you’re seen as protesting other services to women in crisis” – that could change if more people knew how some CPC’s operate.
“There’s nothing in a CPC’s operations that imply any kind of pernicious opposition to abortion, sufficient to warrant protest.” – I disagree.
“I think it’s silly to imagine that pro-lifers are somehow the reigning champs in these frontier skirmishes” – we obviously disagree.
Reality: “‘I think it’s silly to imagine that pro-lifers are somehow the reigning champs in these frontier skirmishes’ – we obviously disagree.”
With easily visible Google results for boycotts? How can you disagree? Is maintaining your beliefs against evidence part of your respect for science?
Guess you didn’t bother checking. Must be part of that scientific curiosity.
Good grief, I’m not pairing these phrases very well, am I?
Pairing your phrases or paring them rasqual?
I’ve looked at google, various websites, blogs, newspapers (of various persuasions), television news reports (again, various) etc. etc (well there probably aren’t that many etc.’s) and I still conclude that there is a whole lot more protesting, demonstrating, vigilizing (can I claim that one?) and boycotting by anti-choicers than by pro-choicers.
Biggz –
Lee – you are talking about the termination of fetuses and zygotes not people with families and children’s of their own. What you are talking about in most cases is a small clump of cells. Most abortions are not the late-term abortions you guys like to use as examples. They are usually done much earlier than that.
Really? Just a clump of cells … Biggz – that is how every human being begins – just a clump of cells. It does not matter when an abortion is done – each abortion kills a human being. Bully - pick on someone your own size from now on, not defenseless little clump of cells!
You realize that by making it harder for an organization to raise money privately, you give it more of an incentive to pursue government funding as a substitute for that lost income, right?
Nah, if the defunding measures work out, it will just mean that they get less money all together. :)
Joan, Planned Parenthood Mar Monte had Total Revenues in excess of $84 million dollars in it’s most recent report and their highest paid abortionist, Jesse James Joplin, earned a $235,000 annual salary, until his license was recently suspended due to alcohol and drug abuse. The abortion industry giant doesn’t need a “bake-sale” at Chili’s to make ends meet. See their financial records here
http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments//2009/941/583/2009-941583439-05f9f57a-9.pdf
CC says: August 2, 2011 at 2:51 pm
“So the pro-life movement is going after businesses? I thought conservatives love businesses.”
The ‘chickens’ will have to find another roosting place.
Just like Marvin Zindler hounding state and local law enforcement agencies to shut down the ‘Chicken Ranch’ brothel near La Grange, Texas.
Only twisted and perverted people would criticize those who expose whore houses and defend the opportunistic profiteers who run them.
Tom David of the United Church of Christ (Obama’s denom), entitled, “Blessing (Not Cursing) Planned Parenthood”
Suggest you read about Manasseh in the book of the Kings.
Hey Tommy boy! Where in your shrine is the graven imange of Molech prominently displayed?
Tom David, aka the Ir-reverant Luke Warm presiding over the ‘Broadway Church of the Half Saved’
de-odorize the white house, remove b o
deuces tecum
Joan: Sure, which exposes the cockroaches better to the light of day. When it’s a conversation about what public moneys should be spent where, then it’s politicized. Private funding isn’t, strictly speaking, a political question.
Let it be as political as PP wants it to be. Bring it on.
Gee, if PP is so popular and so wonderful and our country so full of PP supporters, why are they trying to poach our tax dollars and have fundraisers at restaurants? They already charge hundreds to kill children, and all their execs make hundreds of thousands a year. Why are the abortion fans so upset? Can’t you support yourselves? Why do you need pro-lifers’ tax money? Why do you need Chili’s money? Why are you so afraid of babies??
Wait, could it be, the tide is turning against abortion and everybody knows it?!
Ah, I love the smell of abortion fans’ frustration and despair; it’s the smell of victory.
Reality’s 8:29 Post: “Remind me again just how many anti-choice gatherings there are outside clinics every single day. And roadside vigils with a string of grotesque signs.
I don’t see pro-choice people constantly conducting rallies outside venues holding fundraisers for the cause that you support. Like I said, intimidation much.”
No, the so-called “pro-choice” organizations get their minion in government to pass unconstitutional ordinances that must be opposed and litigated. So what is more intimidating – the police power of the state or a lady with a rosary praying in front of an abortion center. Obviously the lady with the rosary.
Jill, we need an ‘ignore’ button. ;)
Rasqual – Abby is a liar because she has no evidence to back up her claims, that’s called slander. You guys just need to realize how much money she is making off selling her books to you…
Also Scott Roder was a frequent Pro-life “sidewalk counselor” before he decided to murder Dr Tiller. The lady who shot him the first time was also a Pro-life “sidewalk counselor” before she tried to murder him. They were both supported by Operation Rescue and the Army of God continues to raise money for them while they serve out there prison time… If you bothered to read the links I have posted about the violence of the Pro-life movement you would see that they were all peaceful protestor to begin with…
So no I do not believe what a convicted murder says, i believe his actions and the actions of others.
Why are you deleting all my posts? Am I clouding up the echo chamber with logic and reason?
Biggz, are your posts not getting through? I will check the spam folder, but I only see 3 of your posts in the last week that have been unpublished.
I checked spam and there are no posts of yours there, either.
So those 3 posts don’t count?
That pro-abortion logic only works if you pretend that abortion is not murder. Abortion is murder, so the indignation of abortionists rings pretty hollow. Hypocrites much??
LOL BIGGZ!!! You just made my day. :)
Why are you deleting all my posts? Am I clouding up the echo chamber with logic and reason?
Have no fear, Kel is on the case.
Ninek – Abortion is NOT murder unless you count killing cells murder? In that case my father has murdered cancer 3 times and I have been murdering my brain slowly for years… Drop the drama and hysteria.
ON another thread you stated that we all start out female. That fetus’ are first female and then male. I thought we were just cells? Basic biology should clear that right up for you.
Abortion is murder. History will not be kind to those that promote and celebrate it.
Yea a male or female fetus??? What’s the problem? All fetuses do start out female.
I think history will be cruel to those who murder Doctors and Health Center employees over political differences and judge other people from atop their perceived moral high ground even though they themselves committed they very same sin they find so shameful in others…
I think history will see them as hypocrites…
Better watch out, Biggz.
Sounds like you are telling me not to judge while judging me for judging.
I don’t know why but you are cracking me up tonight! :)
And if you are judging my abortion and accusing me of judging(and shaming)others for theirs you are full of it.
His extra question marks are cracking me up, personally.
What sin are you talking about, Biggz??????
Jack?????????????
Is that you???????????????
I wasn’t talking about you at all Carla… Sounds like I hit a nerve though. Most of the women I have talked to on this blog and on the sidewalk in front of PP have had abortions in the past. If you want to take it personally that is up to you…
Jack I am talking about the sin you guys seem to think abortion is. I do not believe in sin myself.
Biggz says:
August 3, 2011 at 5:49 pm
Why are you deleting all my posts? Am I clouding up the echo chamber with logic and reason?
Kel says:
August 3, 2011 at 6:20 pm
I checked spam and there are no posts of yours there, either.
LOL…… also no “logic” – also no “reason”. Sorry bigz.
Carla, yes it’s me!!!!!!!!!!
Biggz, I don’t remember killing any other humans. I am also a vegetarian. Does that still make me a hypocrite???????
Hit a nerve? Nah.
I’ve only been called a murderer, killer, and a perp here this week. Haven’t read the Abby Johnson thread yet then?? I was sorely disappointed when nobody called me a slut or a whore though. :(
Jack nice to see you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sometimes I do enjoy a little good natured ribbing, Biggz. Just blowing off some steam!!!
Hope that’s ok.
Carla – blow off all the steam you wish =)
Jack – Have you ever stepped on a bug or went fishing? MURDERER!!!!! =)
Why thank you Biggz. :)
Nice to see you too Carla!!!!!!! How are you?????
Biggz, I don’t fish but I did run over a gator once by accident. Is that manslaughter??? :)
No Jack, that’s an opportunity to enter the high-end fashion market :-)
Biggz: “Rasqual – Abby is a liar because she has no evidence to back up her claims, that’s called slander.”
Actually, no. You apparently don’t know the definition of slander. Furthermore, not having evidence is not evidence of dishonesty. You’re really, really confused. For example, I cannot give you any evidence that a fellow today was unduly brusque with my son. But it’s no lie for me to assert that he was. You would have to simply doubt my word, to claim it a lie. But that would be based on your doubt, not the fact that I could not produce evidence.
You’re simple wrong, Biggz. Why not admit it? Some humility is called for when you’re wrong, don’t you think?
Biggz again: “I think history will be cruel to those who murder Doctors and Health Center employees over political differences and judge other people from atop their perceived moral high ground even though they themselves committed they very same sin they find so shameful in others… I think history will see them as hypocrites…”
I think history will forget they existed. You confuse your polemical need to magnify their significance instrumentally to impugn pro-lifers (as you imagine), with their actual significance in the grand scheme of things.
Yeah, I score this post of the month:
“Why are you deleting all my posts? Am I clouding up the echo chamber with logic and reason?”
Rasqual – Anytime I make any claim on this blog I am instantly assaulted by people saying “where is your proof”. So I have to go locate proof and post it. Abby has made wild accusations against PP without a single shred of evidence to back up her claims. Until she can provide proof she will be seen as a liar. Some of the lies she has told about PP are in direct conflict with my own personal experiences at PP with both my wife and my daughter.
I made an incorrect statement earlier today and admitted it so…
As for my posts being deleted they stated that 3 of my post were in the span folder… so deleted. This is the second time this has happened to me so I do have to ask the question am I being censored.
Defamation—also called calumny, vilification, traducement, slander (for transitory statements), and libel (for written, broadcast, or otherwise published words)—is the communication of a statement that makes a claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product, group, government, or nation a negative image. It is usually a requirement that this claim be false and that the publication is communicated to someone other than the person defamed
Feel free to show some humility and admit you are wrong here as I do know the meaning of Slander.
BTW I met Abby in person here in Portland… Have you ever met her?
Jack and Carla!!!!!!!!!!
You made me laugh so hard I scared my dog!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!
??????????
(*burying face in hands*)
I suppose it’s too late to warn y’all not to play with trolls… (The question marks always do it, don’t they??????)
I’m sorry, Paladin! You’re right!
…..but it did make me laugh!
Awww, you guys ruin all my fun. :( :( :( :(
LittleZ,
If Abby Johnson is such a liar, then why hasn’t Planned Parenthood sued her over the past two years????????????????????????
Yeah, I score this post of the month:
“Why are you deleting all my posts? Am I clouding up the echo chamber with logic and reason?”
I know, right? First he’s all “logic and reason” and then he’s mixing up organisms with cancer!!!!!1!1!eleventy-one!!! It’s too funny.
It is laughable at the lack of information and/or the contrived crap on here. Chili’s isn’t owned by Susan Komen nor did they cancel as a result of pressure.
But any business faced with the possibility of being harassed and possibly having their clientele harmed would cancel. Doesn’t mean they are pro life and didn’t support planned parenthood. Just means they shut down pro lifers attacking the restaurant or the patrons.
Biggz: “Feel free to show some humility and admit you are wrong here as I do know the meaning of Slander.”
No, Biggz. Because unlike you, I based my claim on evidence — your allegation that slander consists of Abby having “no evidence to back up her claims.”
Trotting off to a Wikipedia page to plagiarize a quote doesn’t constitute knowledge — unless you’re outsourcing your smarts on them interwebz.
Not only should you be showing some humility and admitting you have no idea how slander and defamation apply in this case, you should now be grateful to me for provoking you to learn something about the meaning of the words you carelessly toss about.
Biggz, you think I’m naively provoking you?
Do you have the least idea what’s involved in proving defamation? Run back to the Wiki, Biggz. Really.
Biggz, your 3 unpublished posts appear to be on different threads. If posts are removed, typically it’s for inflammatory religious comments or something of that nature. There are many individuals who have had various posts removed. It’s called “moderating” and part of that job is to remove comments that mods believe violate the rules of the boards. If you were being censored or banned, your posts wouldn’t appear at all, period.
Btw, the spam folder is not where unpublished posts go. Occasionally posts get caught in spam for no apparent reason, so that’s why I checked there for your posts.
biggotz,
Are you a ‘bonde’?
Have you got that light bulb un-screwed yet, or are you still standing there, wagging your head from side to side like a bobble head, waiting for the world to revolve around you?
Do you fancy yourself a ‘voice crying in the wilderness’?
Or
Do you perceive yourself that tree that falls noiselessly in the forest because no one is there to hear you, except you?
Do really believe you have some sort of right to be heard?
I suggest you take up some sort of hobby. Who knows perhaps you have some sort of gift or skill. It might even be marketable. Then you could establish your own blog where you could spend all your spare time spouting off your inane babblings.
But at least make some attempts at humor. It will offer some relief to any unfortunate reader who might have the misfortune to stumble on to your obscure presence.
Mary Lee!!!!!!
How are you?????
Mary Lee,
:) Just don’t do it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(…unless it’s particularly amusing, I suppose………??????)
Man, I am so tempted to answer Carla with
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
……but I won’t.
Mary Lee!!!!!!!!!!! Are you feeding trolls????????????
Looks like another one of my posts got deleted off this thread…