“Trust Black Women!” shouted by mostly white pro-choice students at black pro-life women
Pro-choice ideologues often act “bizarro,” to quote The Radiance Foundation’s Ryan Bomberger in a tweet yesterday afternoon.
Ryan was asked to speak September 15 at Georgia State University about his billboard campaigns that spotlight the atrocity of black abortion genocide.
That’s when the bizarreness began. A favorite tactic of the pro-abortion crowd is to attempt to suppress pro-life free speech. Only this time the irony was amazingly rich, and made richer by the fact they were so consumed with shouting their rhetoric, they didn’t see it.
Wrote Ryan at LifeNews.com:
“Trust Black Women! Trust Black Women!” was the chant that disrupted the planned lecture about abortion, black genocide and Planned Parenthood. For nearly 20 minutes, before the presentation could even begin, the protesters barked the mantra at the racially diverse audience and me, in particular. Thankfully, campus police removed them after they repeatedly refused to allow, or be part of, the conversation. Those who remained were able to discuss the substance of the epidemic of abortion, eugenics, and the impact on the black community.
But, those 20 minutes of protesting were so oddly surreal.
Trust Black Women is a national propaganda effort, launched by Sistersong, to combat the truth of our TooManyAborted.com campaign. When in doubt, you gotta shout.
Last night’s demonstration shows how their strategy is failing. None of the students could answer a single question about basic abortion statistics. I invited them numerous times to join us and engage in conversation. They refused and continued their singular chant. All but 2 of the protestors were white; neither of these black student activists spoke. However, there were plenty of black women in the audience. Predictably, they weren’t the black women that these pro-abortion activists trusted. They didn’t make the cut.
When a black woman in the audience finally stood up to speak, the student protesters refused to let her say anything. It wasn’t until I pointed out the irony that they were chanting “Trust Black Women” but wouldn’t allow a black woman to speak, that they briefly stopped their nonsense.
Here’s the video:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f01PFcBieQY&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
I also thought it quite racist, degrading, and stereotyping when the white pro-abortion student told the black woman appealing for reason (at 4:20 on the video), “You should have access to birth control; your government should supply… [garbled]… collective responsibility…. ” By that statement the white woman was assuming the black woman was poor, engaging in sex, and in need of patriarchal oversight because she couldn’t maintain personal responsibility.
[Photos via LifeNews.com]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
This guy is awesome!
How is this different than the overwhelmingly white commenter population of this blog calling racism on planned parenthood?
Ok, can we say juvenile?
Next time, Ryan, be sure you have the prolife flash mob brigade ready. Nothing annoys college prochoicers more than being surrounded by yellow balloons with LIFE printed on them.
Irony on the Left bothers them not at all. It is Dadaism. You shout at, ridicule, and smear the other side. Reason is lost. That is why the call for civility and dialogue is a red herring. Their idea of civility is you agree with everything they say. If you get 20 people in front of an abortion mill on 40 Days simply praying, you get accused of terrorism as peaceful as you are, but they throw all sorts of incendiary rhetoric out there and don’t get called out on it. A guy in Chicago last 40 Days got arrested when an abortion advocate backed into him and accused him of assaulting her. Luckily it was filmed so he was released; otherwise no doubt he would’ve gotten prosecuted.
I though religious people were supposed to be the ones who want to use the law to boss people around. Listen to these leftists, and you hear more thinking of bossing and pushing people as cattle than you ever hear from the most frantic conservative preacher. The left has its own religious law; it’s not called sharia, it’s called collectivism.
J –
Stick around. You’ll find we’re not all white (or even “overwhelmingly” like you stated) as you assume. Do you know what assuming does?
(*sigh*) There are none so blind as those who refuse to see; there are none so stupid as those who refuse to think. This is simply the fingers-in-ears, “Lalala-I-can’t-hear-you-over-my-own-yelling-lalala”, writ large.
“I want more women on birth control.”
Yeah, because we can’t trust women enough to control themselves.
How does J know who is white? Do our handles give us away???
Not all of us are white, not even close to all.
Jack- you have a white child in your profile picture (your daughter), so people could assume that you are white. But that’s problematic because I am white but I often have a black child in my profile pictures (my godson), so I’ve been called racist epithets before. I respond with, “I’m white, you idiot.” but the only classy response is none at all.
Lol, the funny part is I am only half white, my kids are only a quarter, though we all look pretty white. Not that it matters, because I don’t see any difference between the races. Like, at all. But yeah, it is probably best not to respond to race baiting.
So their voices were saying “Trust Black Women”, but their actions were saying “Destroy Black Women.”
Actions do speak louder than words.
May God bless you Ryan – keep up His good work!
Thank you Ryan. “One word of truth outweighs the whole world”. I support you in your speaking the truth. The women in the video spoke volumes. Although many less words came out of her mouth than that of the protesters.
They are trying to silence you Ryan.
I thought the video was hysterical, and I didn’t see it as being about race at all. It was about a bunch of loud mouthed, disrespectful, abortion activists, attempting to take over a pro-life event. That’s what kids do when they want attention, isn’t it?
“A woman has an abortion to be a better mother”
“A woman butchers her still living kicking children to be a better mother”
“A woman stabs scissors into the skull of her children and vacuums out their brains to be a better mother”
“A woman poisons her child’s still beating heart until it stops and then chops up his corpse to be a better mother”
“A woman MURDERS her children to be a better mother.”
I guess that makes women like Andrea Yates better mothers than me since I have yet to murder my children. Hear that mothers?? What kind of mother are you if you aren’t murdering your babies??? Don’t you want to be a “better” mother?
And every time the man tries to discuss actual facts or statistics, have a dialogue or even an argument, the parrots panic and start, like creepy zombies mumbling braaaaiiiinnssss, chanting their mindless mantra.
“Oh crap! The facts are threatening my self-righteous PC belief system! I better say the magic words given me by my thought programers! Trrruuuustttt wooommmeeennnn….. brainssss— I mean, wooomeennn…”
@TheChristianHippie, your posts are just so…Awesome! Keep it up. :D
Ryan, You’re doing a great job. That’s why you’re facing the pro-choice nonsense – it’s BECAUSE you’re doing a great job. The people you were encountering are not thinking rationally. They are just trying to rationalize irresponsible behavior. Thank you so much for speaking up!
J says:
September 17, 2011 at 11:16 am
“How is this different than the overwhelmingly white commenter population of this blog calling racism on planned parenthood?”
Just like X says, we’re not all white. I comment here because the Hispanic population accounts for only 16% of the US population and 22% of all abortions. So over 220,000 Hispanic babies are killed yearly through abortion. I am Hispanic. I am also post-abortive and fell for the lies and “trusted” the women at the abortion clinic who said they are there to help women and would be there to help me anytime after the abortion should I have regrets. Well, these “trusted” women dismissed my feelings of regret and my counselor did not show up for my counseling appointment when I returned to the abortion clinic a week later in need of help. I was told I would get over it. I felt like something must be wrong with me because I didn’t get over it. I attempted suicide twice until finding the help I needed through a post-abortive program through a crisis pregnancy center. So, I will continue to comment and share my story here and elsewhere because the truth about abortion needs to be known.
“Yeah, because we can’t trust women enough to control themselves.”
Oh, I forgot that there’s no such thing as responsible birth control use. Axiomatically, women on birth control are promiscuous. But none of that applies to couples who use NFP. Because rigorous monitoring of the body’s signs and strategically-planned periods of abstinence with the intention of avoiding pregnancy technically don’t count as contraception.
I’ll never forget my grandmother’s old adage: “Satan grows a pair of horns every time a pro-lifer exploits a convenient technicality!”
If you are old enough to make big boy and big girl decisions, you are old enough to raise a child. If you absolutely know you can’t raise a child, you have no business having sex and really should control yourself, Megan.
Sorry, I don’t trust all women. Why? Because they are not all trustworthy.
What does satan grow when proaborts exploit the Truth?
mtsi
After there was evidence that she falsely accused him he should have taken her to civil court if it was obvious that’s what she had done.
RCH
I was always pro-life but there are a few things that really helped me to see how the hard-core abortionists weren’t just the enemies of children but women also. One was when I was told the story of a hispanic lady who was so grieved by her abortion she killed herself and her two children. After reading about the eugenic past of planned parenthood I had a better understanding of just how targeted some groups are. You should read the definition of genocide and reach your own conclusions but if you believe you were targeted because of your race you should really think about criminal and civil action. Think of the difference you could make in the lives of other women who are being targeted as well. I hope the measure of healing you receive in your life far outweighs the pain you’ve had to endure.
I heard one of the pro-abort ‘trust black women’ crowd say “I think more black women should be on birth control cause they can’t afford to have any more children.”
Not one of them wanted to sit down and dialogue. I’d bet they were getting paid by PP for showing up to protest.
These immature idiots should be spanked and sent to the timeout room.
The anti-choice movement doesn’t trust women regardless of color. And because they also fear and loathe the sexuality of women who are no longer subservient to the male social an religious patriarchy, they seek to control their sexuality. The organizational structure of the anti-choice movement is, predominately, white. Given that the anti-choice grassroots are diverse, why is it such a big deal that white pro-choice women are supporting their black pro-choice sisters who are offended that the anti-choice movement says that they’re too stupid and too naive to make their own judgements about when and if they reproduce.
Hmmm. So, if the proabortion crowd (e.g.,the real anti-choice crowd, given that a.) they fight tooth and nail any legislation that actually promotes INFORMED choices – waiting periods, ultrasound, certain information being required reading prior to getting an abortion, etc.- b.) the elements of despair, deceit, coercion, operating in so many abortion “decisions” are so many, common, and strong that it can’t strictly be called a “free choice” c.) One doesn’t find women getting pregnant on purpose so they can get abortions, d.) of all the registered voters in America in 1973, less than 10 were allowed to vote – another expression of choice- on the matter; all of them were men, and the majority of those IMPOSED their lack of morality on the nation; e.) none of the children, whose lives are at stake, are given any choice in the matter, though evidence such as THE SILENT SCREAM indicates that given one, they would choose LIFE, etc.) Really trusts women, regardless of color, why is it so important to them to kill them off? Sex selection abortions probably aren’t as big here as they are in, say, China and some other countries where sons are preferred, and baby girls are aborted because of their gender; but the overwhelming majority of sex-selection abortions kill little baby girls – and the women they would become if life were chosen. But there isn’t always that option, either, since government imposed family size limitations don’t let a couple choose life more than once, MAYBE twice. And Oh yes, there are the actual women killed by “safe, legal” abortion, or maimed so badly that they cannot have children when they want them – how’s that again about reproductive choice?!- No, not all women can be trusted, especially the proabort women who suppress the above facts; but real, normal women, given the support and the facts, can generally be trusted to make the natural choice, which is LIFE. Why not trust them enough to give them that support, and the truth, and see…regardless of color…like the prolifers do?
The anti-choice movement doesn’t trust women regardless of color.
This mindless “trust women” mantra seems only to spew from the mouths of those who exploit women. You trust an industry that makes billions of dollars convincing women who won’t care for children to have sex (make children they won’t care for) so they can make a literal killing KILLING those children? You shouldn’t. You trust women who kill their children? You shouldn’t. But then again, you don’t. You don’t “trust” women. You exploit them.
And because they also fear and loathe the sexuality of women who are no longer subservient to the male social an religious patriarchy, they seek to control their sexuality.
Seeking to save a child from poisoning, dismemberment or scissors in the skull is not an attack on women’s sexuality. It’s seeking to save a child’s life. I frankly don’t care what foolish women do with their own bodies. If a woman wants to have sex with a consenting adult or many many adults, that’s not my business. It becomes my business when an innocent child is killed. But apparently, according to you and your ilk, you can’t have sex without killing children, although a majority of women who have sex never kill any children. Why is that? Why must you have abortion to have sex? Is it not possible to have sex if you can’t kill the children that are conceived? WAIT! You must be saying that you *wouldn’t* have sex if you knew you couldn’t kill the resulting child. Then apparently, sex is more important than human life. It’s worth killing for.
subservient to the male social an religious patriarchy
I am absolutely subservient! And glad to be! I am a happy, happy obedient daughter of a Father who loves me more than anyone can fathom- more than any human is capable of. I serve a God who loves me and therefore wants love, joy and peace for me- that I can have by simply not doing self-destructive things.
I assume that quote of yours was an attempt to insult women like myself who choose to adhere to natural/divine law on sexuality. It failed. Long before I had a divine worldview, I eschewed sex outside of marriage because the costs weren’t worth the benefits. Sex outside of marriage wasn’t worth the potential of a lifetime disease. It wasn’t worth my health- my heart or my self-respect. Because I made a choice, apart from God- I was spared the agony endured by girls that made a different choice. When I figured out that chastity wasn’t my brilliant idea to avoid pain and learned it was God’s idea, I got the true impression that maybe God cares about me and I should listen. So now, I listen on all matters, not just sex.
As a servant of the male religious patriarchy who is also a successful feminist, I am not fettered by fears of STD’s, pregnancy scares, worries of being used/abandoned, no “baby daddy” drama in my life. Looking at single and married women who choose wisely, our lives are free from the hell you heap upon yourself. Any sex we have brings joy and not sorrow- cements our lifetime commitment to our one-and-only and brings us children we adore. Yes, I am now subservient to God- but you are subservient too! You serve yourself and your desires- and the rotten fruit of that is drama, sickness, surgery, and heartache. We serve God and the fruit of that is love, joy, health, peace and children who we love who love us back. And grandchildren, too. Comparing the lives of a sexually immoral and sexually moral person side-to-side and see who is happier.
The irony is, you serve yourself and end up broken, blistered, bleeding, anxious, depressed and alone. Those who serve God end up happy, healthy, peaceful, joyful and loved. So serving yourself actually doesn’t make you (your only concern) any better. It makes you worse. So you don’t get what you want- you lose. Since you value yourself and freedom (so do I)- come be TRULY free. Protect yourself from all these problems you are choosing to create- value yourself enough for that.
You are always welcome to leave the darkness. There is plenty of room over here in the light.
“…why is it such a big deal that white pro-choice women are supporting their black pro-choice sisters who are offended that the anti-choice movement says that they’re too stupid and too naive to make their own judgements about when and if they reproduce.”
White pro-abortion-as-a-choice women were preventing a black woman from speaking by shouting “trust black women!” They were not supporting their black sisters, they were preventing one of their black sisters from participating in an intellectual dialouge. One might infer that they thought she was to “stupid and naive” to make her own judgement about abortion.
Women should get to make their own judgements about when and if they reproduce. Just please, please do not deny the biological fact that, at fertilization, reproduction has already happened and nothing can change that.
The anti-choice movement doesn’t trust women regardless of color.
Trust must be earned. To blindly trust a whole gender for no other reason than their gender is the ultimate blindness and to insist others do so is idiotic and unenlightened.
What would you think of a white supremacy group that had a mantra of “Trust Men” and later added “Trust White Men”?
I don’t trust any proabort, including you CC, because your whole world view is based on a lie. If you want my trust, you’re gonna have to earn it.
I wonder if we go back to the Founding Fathers of our nation, if they would be thinking that government was established to provide sexually active women with birth control at tax payer expense? I am sure it never entered their mind. How is it that college educated women can not engage in meaningful dialog? They resort to chants and disruptions. Do they realize how foolish they appear? They do not speak for black women, they speak for their own agenda of random sexual behavior without consequence.
I did hear the presentation given by Walter Hoye in Sacramento, CA yesterday and I am thankful that the representatives from the abortion industry were respectful, quiet, and appeared to really listen to the presentation given. We were thankful for their presence and praying that the truth would penetrate their hearts.
“The irony is, you serve yourself and end up broken, blistered, bleeding, anxious, depressed and alone. Those who serve God end up happy, healthy, peaceful, joyful and loved.”
i.e., “I subscribe to a Manichean worldview because it helps me deal with the complicated things in life.” So much LOL. Let me know when you fall into that perfect, wholesome, God-ordained marriage you’ve tricked yourself into thinking awaits you. Don’t forget to give us fornicators some sex tips when you’re high up there on your moral pedestal.
“If you absolutely know you can’t raise a child, you have no business having sex and really should control yourself, Megan.”
Alright, Praxedes, I get it. I’m a sinner, I’m a saint, I do not feel ashamed…but seriously, would you say that to the married couples I know who simply can’t afford to have kids right now without going on food stamps? Should they simply avoid sex altogether?
would you say that to the married couples I know who simply can’t afford to have kids right now without going on food stamps?
I guess I need to make myself clearer for you Megan. Yes, I would tell a married couple that if they felt that their only option was to kill their child if they got pregnant (whether they use nothing, NFP, condoms or 5 b/cs at once), they are not in a position to be having sex. They could use all that sexual energy to get an additional or better job, save that extra money up and then continue their sex life. There are so many options that do not include having to kill your child.
Don’t forget to give us fornicators some sex tips when you’re high up there on your moral pedestal.
Sex sometimes causes babies, even if you use b/c. Please don’t have sex if you realize you would kill your child if you get pregnant. If you cannot give up intercourse even when that means you will end another human’s life, you might want to check this site out: www.sexaa.org There is help, Megan.
Let me know when you fall into that perfect, wholesome, God-ordained marriage you’ve tricked yourself into thinking awaits you.
Megan, I’m happy NOW. I don’t need sex to be happy. I have everything I want- including children. In fact, I am terrified of marriage because as a single person, I have more autonomy because I don’t have someone else’s life/career to consider (among other things). Being committed for a lifetime to someone who might change- that terrifies me too. So I certainly don’t have an idlyllic idea of marriage- but I do know that marriage works best when it’s not sabotaged before its begun. So if I do get married and have a good marriage because I didn’t pollute it by polluting myself and dragging filth into it, I will give you a call. Since you doubt that good wholesome marriages exist, I can direct you to dozens of couples I know who can blow your mind with how happy they are.
Don’t forget to give us fornicators some sex tips when you’re high up there on your moral pedestal.
I have said this before: I am not “better” than you, Megan. I am better-off. There’s a difference. I have the capacity to make choices, good or evil and sadly, I still choose evil much of the time even though I know better. So I’m not a better person than you are- but because I am spared the consequences I could endure by refusing to make bad choices, I am much better-off than you are. I gain nothing by seeing you do destructive things (like having no regard for your body and soul and destroying children that come from that choice). I don’t see this and think, “I’m better than she is” on my “moral pedestal”- In fact, I made it quite clear that my choices regarding sex started as pragmatic and only later became moral.- Rather, I wonder why I was spared that suffering since I AM NOT ANY BETTER THAN YOU ARE. So no one here is cheering for your demise or polishing their imaginary halos everytime you boast about your destructive choices and cheer for degradation, destruction and death. We are rather, grateful that we have avoided that snare OR grateful that we were healed after falling into that trap. Mostly, we are all desperately wanting you to know love and freedom. You can misrepresent this all day long, but we actually care about you. People that profit from choices that hurt you, choices that causes sickness and sorrow- they do not care about you- but your loyalty to them is steadfast? Why? They take your money- that’s all they do. When you are in real need, they won’t be there because you are merely someone to use. We want you to be happy, healthy and whole. Our offer to show you freedom and joy is always good no matter how much you mock us. I will remind you of that until it finally sinks in.
“Just please, please do not deny the biological fact that, at fertilization, reproduction has already happened and nothing can change that.”
That is a religious view. Science says that pregnancy begins at implantation. If ”life” begins at fertilization, women should mourn and pray for each drop of menstrual blood because little “babies” could be flushing out.
“Please don’t have sex if you realize you would kill your child if you get pregnant”
It’s a fetus, not a “person” and abortion is simply the means by which it’s removed.
“What would you think of a white supremacy group that had a mantra of “Trust Men” and later added “Trust White Men”?
LOL, a white supremacy group would be promoting an ideology based on hate having nothing to do with bodily autonomy. Trusting women to make their own bodily decisions is totally different.
Here’s the thing. If you needed a kidney, you have no right to take mine. If I were pregnant and wanted an abortion, you have no right to intervene on behalf of a fetus that I am carrying. My body, my choice. Not the church, not the state, only I decide my fate.
My bad CC.
Please don’t have sex if you realize you would kill your human fetus if you get pregnant.
“Please don’t have sex if you realize you would kill your human fetus if you get pregnant”
Please don’t impose your value judgement on what I do with my body.
BTW. I don’t condone shouting people down. I say argue forcibly and intelligently with the zealots. Screaming is what some zealots do outside abortion clinics. What type of dialogue is accomplished by shouts of ”your killing your baby?” Sidewalk “counseling” indeed.
What type of dialogue is accomplished by downplaying what you support?
You support humans having the right to kill their innocent human family members.
Stop rationalizing what you support. Own it.
I’ve yet to see you argue forcibly and intelligently with anyone.
Your rambling consists of: ”Not the church, not the state, only I decide my fate’ and ‘trust women’ and ‘trust black women’.
These old mantras are easily, forcibly and intelligently countered with. No church, no state nor any individual wants to decide your fate. We believe you should be allowed to remain living. We believe all humans should be allowed to remain living until natural death.
To read my argument against trusting all of one gender just because they have a uterus, see my comments above. Trust must be earned and this cannot be done as long as you remain pro-abortion.
No one’s judging what one does with one’s OWN body: the fetus, the baby, the human child, the embryo has it’s own body.
New life begins at conception. Only people who want to make money $$$ off killing babies say that ‘pregnancy begins at implantation.’ They say this because the lie works on people like abortion advocates. Abortion advocacy is a mental illness. Except the illness doesn’t kill the advocate: it kills someone else’s child.
If your mantra is trust women, why don’t you let females be born? Why do you kill females in the womb (along with males)? Don’t you trust them? Are you afraid of babies? Why? Why do abortion advocates hate little helpless babies so much?
I know I’ve been remiss in my duties as troll watch-man, but: at least be wary of feeding the trolls, y’all. I’d say “don’t”, but I don’t want to be seen as imposing my value-system on others. :)
Maybe they should change their mindless chant to
TRUST PROABORTION BLACK WOMEN!!
Unless they DO trust prolife black women??
Hi Paladin,
Been gone all weekend!! Aaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh.
A blog break is always nice.
DFTT
“Why do abortion advocates hate little helpless babies so much”
Oh my God, enough. Is that what you were thinking when you made the decision to get an abortion? Really, let’s be rational here.
“Megan, I’m happy NOW. I don’t need sex to be happy.”
See Jacqueline, you do a nice job clarifying your points and all, but you fall into the trap of extremism all the time. If I needed sex to be happy, then I’d probably be paying lots of money for a therapist as well. Sex is not the most important aspect of my relationship, not at all. It is important to me though, and I waited until I felt that I was emotionally ready for it, and when I had found somebody worth sharing it with.
But I do realize that some people arrive at happiness by a different path. I can point to happily married couples who spent their better days dating, traveling, and living generally unencumbered existences–individuals who brought a wealth of human experience with them into marriage, not “pollution” and “filth” as you so nicely put it. And where I live right now, there’s no shortage of twenty-year-olds who bought into the abstinence-until-marriage deal and hit the altar out of insatiable lust, and are now in the throes of regret. That’s not my vision of happy-ever-after time, but whatever. Not my place to judge.
That is a religious view. Science says that pregnancy begins at implantation.
Wow- this is such a lie. This definition is not scientific, it’s political. Science says LIFE begins at conception. Because of this, it was illegal to terminate a pregnancy in 1973. But the IUD was invented in the 60’s- only it killed embryos and was therefore illegal. So Planned Parenthood lobbied the American Medical Association to change the definition of pregnancy from conception to implantation so the IUD and other abortifacients could be legally sold. You can play semantics games, but changing what you call something does not change what it is. A human life begins at conception- you can change the definition of the beginning of pregnancy to quickening or any other arbitrary point- it doesn’t change the fact that any action taken to “end a pregnancy” aside from live birth results in the death of a child.
It is important to me though, and I waited until I felt that I was emotionally ready for it, and when I had found somebody worth sharing it with.
I guess your standards of “somebody worth sharing it with” differ from mine- because anybody worth sharing it with is worth marrying and even other “worthy” people with whom it just doesn’t work out- those are not people I want to be intimate with and make my heartache worse. I’ve seen women with their arbitrary “standards” (which are really no standards at all) and they rack up an impressive number of bedfellows and break-ups before marrying the one who was truly “worth sharing it with.” You call that extreme- it’s not. It’s simply solid rather than relative and arbitrary. Like my sister- she realized that problems sex was causing in her life (even led to a bad marriage and painful divorce) and told me she had chosen to wait. I was so happy for her- and then she met her latest boyfriend two weeks ago and said, “I didn’t say I was waiting for marriage. I was waiting for someone worthwhile.” I pointed out that anyone worthwhile would marry her- but in the end, she’s going to do what she wants to do, even though she sees how it’s hurt her deeply. You may not feel like extra-marital sex has hurt you, but I fail to see how it could help you.
Seriously, how are you better from having sex? How has the experience of having surgery and bleeding for weeks because you got pregnant and didn’t want to be pregnant- how was this a good thing for you? What benefits does “sex now” have over “sex later”? I know the answer is that you have sex simply because you want to, not for any “benefits”- but I fail to see how any “benefits” you could muster overcome the obvious downsides. If the downsides hurt only you, it would be your perogative, but one of those downsides killed your child. “Sex now” was certainly not worth the consequences for her.
I can point to happily married couples who spent their better days dating, traveling, and living generally unencumbered existences–individuals who brought a wealth of human experience with them into marriage, not “pollution” and “filth” as you so nicely put it.
Is Herpes one of those “human experiences” you speak of? Because I have girlfriend that brought that into their marriage. Yes, they are happy, but they’d be happier without the sores. How about HIV- that’s a human experience! Most couples would gladly forego that. What about baby-daddies and baby-mamas? I’m sure many married couples would be happier if they had children TOGETHER and didn’t have third party involved. There are a ton of human experiences that ain’t good, Megan. I’ll pass.
By the way, I date, travel and live a full and wonderful existence filled with human experiences- only my human experiences are good ones that I’m not ashamed to share. I can talk about my train trip across the Pacific Northwest during post-grad school instead of a three-way I had once or romance with a guy who I decided to leave or who left me. There are human experiences that suck- like losing loved ones to cancer. I have those stories, too. But I am glad I am “encumbered” enough not to add bad experiences to my life- and I certainly wouldn’t think those experiences “help” my marriage. It’s one thing to say it doesn’t hurt marriage- it’s quite another to say that most couples are glad their spouse slept with other people. I think if you took a poll, you’ll find more people who wish they’d waited and regret having sex with people than people who say, “Man, I wish I had slept around more before I got married!” Sure, you’ll find some who say the latter, but more people regret having sex than not having it- since the consequences of having it far outweigh the benefits of having it. Any “problems” waiting may cause can’t be nearly as bad as the problems that come from not waiting. This is self-evident.
And where I live right now, there’s no shortage of twenty-year-olds who bought into the abstinence-until-marriage deal and hit the altar out of insatiable lust, and are now in the throes of regret.
That’s very sad. Case in point- allowing sex to cause problems in your life. You don’t see yourself as falling into that trap, but you’ve already chosen to have sex when you knew you weren’t ready for the consequences. You allowed sex to cause you to have surgery which killed your son/daughter. They allowed sex to coerce them into to getting married (which happens more with having sex than with not, by the way- sex clouds romantic judgment and makes people feel like something is there which is clearly absent). You are both EXTREME. I’m actually quite balanced.
I would also like to point out that for those kids in the throes of regret for marrying for sex- there are MILLIONS of other kids in the throes of regret over having sex and being heartbroken, getting an STD or getting pregnant. I wouldn’t want anyone to regret getting married for sex, but still, those kids you pity for rushing to the altar are most likely better off than those single kids nursing other wounds.
I just wanted to add that I am one of those 22 year olds that was married and has only been with my husband. One of the best decisions I have ever made.
There is no regret. I have no STD’s, no unplanned pregnancies, no HIV, no heartbreak, no embarassing one night stands, no walk of shame, no regrets at all about not having sex with others.
I can tell you that my best friend regrets sleeping around before she met her husband. She is now 27 and says that it hurts her to think that she even “trusted” a man with her body that wasnt her spouse. I have another friend who now has AIDS, you betcha that they regret having sex outside of marriage. He is so sick he has lost over 30lbs and is in and out of the hospital all the time. He used a condom and it broke. She never told him that she was HIV positive. One night fling turns into a lifetime of pain.
Or my other friend that is now unable to have any children at all because of the scar tissue left from the abortion she had at fifteen. Imagine her regret and heartbreak that she had to tell her husband that they couldnt have children because of a “choice” she made when she was 15. She was one of the ones who was with her boyfriend for a year and on BC and used a condom and STILL got pregnant (so according to prochoicers she was doing everything right). So she exercized her “right” to have an abortion and now cannot have any biological children. Imagine that regret.
Sorry but I will take the no regret of waiting until marriage over those regrets anyday.
Fault not the church
fault not the state
fault not your baby
when you’re late!
Oops, CC prefers my chant use ‘fetus’ instead of ‘baby’.
I’m not an abortion advocate. Most post-abortive women aren’t. Most, statistically, pro-choice women are not abortion advocates. Most women I know that think they’re pro-choice don’t know much about the abortion industry at all. No, Megs, I’m talking about people like you, and your advocate friends who spend so much time posting on pro-life blogs for example. Why do YOU hate babies so much??
Rational? Science does not say that life begins at implantation. Science is not a person. Abortion advocates are the PEOPLE who want to promote the lie that pregnancy begins at implantation. They say this not because it is scientific, it’s not, but rather because it is profitable. $$$$, Megs, $$$$. Not science. Lies, for money. Get it?
IMHO it’s fine to experience some or all young adult years without marriage and/or children, as long as no children are aborted to make this happen. Also- hmm, a bunch of mostly white women loudly advocating abortion for black women? Sounds like Margaret Sanger’s dream come true!
“Please don’t have sex if you realize you would kill your human fetus if you get pregnant”
Please don’t impose your value judgement on what I do with my body.
Isn’t this interesting? We have many, many, MANY laws which state what we can and cannot do with our own bodies. Do you believe drunk driving laws impose value judgments?
Ryan was our keynote speaker at the Women’s Support Center’s “Celebrate Life” banquet last night. He did an awesome and wonderful job of celebrating life – and he sang his song to us! He has an incredible voice! We thank God that Ryan’s biological mother chose life for him – so that he could share the “power of possibility” with our guests.
At breakfast yesterday with Ryan, we got to talk about this “surreal” experience at GSU. They really didn’t want to “respect black women’s choices” – they only wanted to take over this forum and stifle his message.
May God continue to bless your work, Ryan. You are a great reminder that all children – no matter how they are conceived – are loved by God – and can be loved by caring, compassionate adoptive parents – but there’s a catch. You have to be born first.
“Just please, please do not deny the biological fact that, at fertilization, reproduction has already happened and nothing can change that.”
That is a religious view. Science says that pregnancy begins at implantation. If ”life” begins at fertilization, women should mourn and pray for each drop of menstrual blood because little “babies” could be flushing out.
No. Human life begins at conception. Otherwise, there would be no blastocyst and then zygote traveling down the fallopian tubes to implant in the uterus. Reproduction occurs when the gametes fuse, therefore a new human life begins when the gametes fuse. New DNA = new human life. This happens at fertilization.
If there were a successful fertilization and implantation, menstruation would typically not occur. A zygote has the potential to be flushed out with a period, and using birth control methods like the Pill and the IUD – anything that changes the uterine lining – have the potential to do this. This is a sad and unfortunate fact, and many women who long for children do mourn at the sight of their next period, CC. I think I’ll just pray for you instead, because you’re very bitter and jaded, and you spend an inordinate amount of time trolling a pro-life website spouting the same, unscientific nonsense.
Chant all you want, but abortion doesn’t just decide your fate. It decides the fate of your human offspring as well. And since we live in a country with free speech at the moment, we have every right to attempt to intervene on behalf of the very human fetus you are carrying (theoretically carrying, that is).
Okay Jacqueline, if you can’t think of any type of meaningful romantic experience that exists between “wild drunken spring break hookups” and absolute chastity, then I truly wonder why you went into social work. I hope for your clients’ sake that you’re able to swallow the extremism and self-righteousness.
I think marriage can be a great experience, but you’re not doing anybody any favors by suggesting that people can avoid heartache and misery as long as they steer themselves safely into some eternal union. Did you know that heterosexual, married women have some of the fastest-growing HIV incidence rates today? Seriously, if you need a document from city hall to guarantee that your partner respects you, then you might want to re-evaluate your ability to make character judgments.
if you can’t think of any type of meaningful romantic experience that exists between “wild drunken spring break hookups” and absolute chastity, then I truly wonder why you went into social work.
Megan, your ability to selectively read is downright mind-boggling! No amount of emphasis- caps, italics, underline, bold- gets your attention. You read what you want to read as not to be challenged in holding the opinion you want to hold. All that does is keep you from thinking- thinking which would either fortifying your views or result in your growing into more sophisticated views. My views change because I acknowledge what is said and consider it. You glaze over what is said and pull something from it that doesn’t exist and respond to absolutely nothing. It’s very sophomoric. People who don’t acknowledge anything they don’t like can never be educated- only self-panderers who live on a steady diet of propaganda. Maybe that’s why I have such a successful social work career (and also why I am a top-rate professor)- because I don’t filter everything I hear to suit myself. If you continue this, I can’t imagine how you can have a successful career doing anything.
Here’s what I *actually* said:
I can talk about my train trip across the Pacific Northwest during post-grad school instead of a three-way I had once or romance with a guy who I decided to leave or who left me.
I meantioned a three-way as information someone wouldn’t be proud to share with a spouse, but I also said “romance with a guy who I decided to leave or who left me.” Yes, there is romance outside of hook-ups, but no matter how meaningful it is, it ultimately ended with you deciding that guy wasn’t someone you wanted to commit to for life, or that guy deciding he didn’t want to commit to you for life. Both are not “happy endings.” Therefore, the more meaningful the romance, the more painful the end of that relationship is going to be. That pain is magnified when you had sex because it’s not called intimacy for nothing. You were intimate with someone and that relationship ended- by you or by him and now you have to mourn harder than if you had not been physically intimate. How are you then better off for that experience? No one is. I don’t suggest that anyone can avoid heartache solely by steering themselves into an eternal union, but I sure as hell am saying you can avoid deeper hurt by exercising judgment not to be intimate with someone when the relationship is not yet eternal. I’ve been hurt deeply myself and am grateful I didn’t make it worse.
I hope for your clients’ sake that you’re able to swallow the extremism and self-righteousness.
We’ve already established that the extremism is on your side, since your relativism grants no meaningful distinctions that guide your behavior. It’s a cute thing you do to pretend you have standards. So you suffer the same consequences as someone with no distinctions whatsoever, because that’s essentially what you have, although you claim to exercise judgment with a flimsy “if he’s worthy” distinction that could include anyone or noone- But somehow, it never includes noone, does it? Hmmm…Interesting.
As for the self-righteous insult you throw around, I can only underline, bold, italisize “I am not better than you, Megan” so many times. You never seem to read it, because if you didn’t you’d be forced to think and we established in the first paragraph of this response that this is something you clearly don’t want to do. I am not better than you, Megan. My arguments are pragmatic (cause and effect). I am clearly much smarter than you, though.
Seriously, if you need a document from city hall to guarantee that your partner respects you, then you might want to re-evaluate your ability to make character judgments.
A document from city hall is not a sign of respect- the lifetime exclusive commitment that it takes to get that document damn sure is, though. And I have been well-respected by all the men I’ve had relationships with- respect wasn’t the issue. I respect myself and only date respectable people. I don’t chose to wait for sex because I doubt how respected I am (although ironically, any man who would have sex with me ouside of marriage wouldn’t respect me enough to hurt me nor respect himself- since sex outside of marriage carries no benefit- just consequences). But I digress, the issue wasn’t a fear of not having respect- the issue was that neither of us were foolish enough to engage in something with long-term emotional and physical consequences when we weren’t sure our relationship would be long-term enough to justify and support those consequences (consequences like bonding and children). In spite of your after-school special stereotype, my relationships weren’t “the girl saying no to the pressuring man.”- It was two like-minded people smart enough to date eachother- so you can bet we respected the hell out of eachother to be with people of the same convictions. Still do. So my very respectable ex-boyfriends and myself choose to wait until a long-term commitment is made, and since we didn’t make that commitment to eachother, we are glad we didn’t have sex and endure additional pain or unnecessarily complicate things. We are also glad we didn’t waste sex on a temporary relationship and have to explain that to our future spouses. Win, win, win ad nauseum.
Something you should ask yourself is how much your partners (because your system guarantees there will be many) actually respect you when they aren’t willing to choose you and only you for life. Since “respect” is obviously on your abitrary sliding scale, I can assure you that my insistence on an exclusive lifetime commitment means that my partner respects me AT THAT LEVEL. Again, I am better off and your lifestyle guarentees problems and any happiness is a crap-shoot.
Really, there are no benefits to your lifestyle, Megan. Live how you please- but don’t delude yourself into thinking that your lifestyle is equally wise and prudent as someone with actual standards. It is not. Your abortion proves that.
I had lots of sex. And then I met my husband, and we are happily suited after 15 years of marriage and 3 kids. There is no comparison between the quality of the two. You can live your life with fidelity and meaning or you can live your life for pleasure. But Megan, don’t ever confuse the two. You and I both know where the hookups led us.
“I am not better than you, Megan”
Megan, the problem isn’t that anyone here believes they are better than you (after all, some of us have been where you are at). The problem is that you don’t believe you are just as good as everyone here.
It’s the same problem that is going on with the pro-choice students in the above video. They are trying to cover up their low self-esteem and it is obvious to those who have been there.
CC said:
““Just please, please do not deny the biological fact that, at fertilization, reproduction has already happened and nothing can change that.”
That is a religious view. Science says that pregnancy begins at implantation. If ”life” begins at fertilization, women should mourn and pray for each drop of menstrual blood because little “babies” could be flushing out.”
CC you should pay more attention in your 8th grade biology class, women pass unfertilized ovums monthly during menstration.
And, FYI, pregnancy is defined as “the condition of carrying a developing embryo in the uterus”….. huh, no mention of “implantation”…. what is your “science” source? Mine is a Taber’s medical dictionary.
CC–just because a view is religious doesn’t make it any less true. Or are you one of those sad-hearted individulas who fail to see the miracle and majesty in everyday life?
Bludgeoning people with your opinion is no substitute for reasonable intellectual discourse, Jacqueline. You “win, win, ad nauseum” by virtue of being the loudest.
“Therefore, the more meaningful the romance, the more painful the end of that relationship is going to be. That pain is magnified when you had sex because it’s not called intimacy for nothing. You were intimate with someone and that relationship ended- by you or by him and now you have to mourn harder than if you had not been physically intimate.”
I understand that as moral absolutist, you’re going to emerge from this little scuffle a winner, either way. But first–just because you feel qualified to weigh the morality of two courses of action does not mean you necessarily understand what it’s like to experience them. Vicarious experience does not give you license to generalize about all relationships. I’m not arguing that sex can’t cause heartache and misery. But relationships do not have to end in that way, not at all, especially if the (consenting) individuals are honest with each other and value friendship & human connection above physical gratification. And the dissolution of platonic relationships can cause just as much pain.
Since we’re on the train of over-sharing: I’ve experienced sorrows far worse than a first trimester abortion–which by the way, happened in the context of a three-year relationship (that continues today). If I had been married, I would have chosen the same option. I do not want kids. Ever.
“I can assure you that my insistence on an exclusive lifetime commitment means that my partner respects me AT THAT LEVEL.”
Okay, sure. And I think virginity fetishism is kind of bizarre and doesn’t necessarily mean that a potential mate will have an egalitarian mindset or be kind, emotionally supportive, and invested in mutual endeavors. Oh well though, that’s just my cowardly relativism speaking.
Crusade onward!
Megan I counsel women and teens. I can say that 95% of the time there is regret with either having a number of sexual partner, having an abortion or both. It may not happen right away or even a few years from now but more than likely it will happen.
I had a woman in her 60s say that 30 years ago she had an abortion and she is just starting to regret it now. She said the more that science advances the more she can see that calling the fetus a “clump of cells” is just as innacurate as calling herself a clump of cells. She said that when she had her 60th birthday she finally realize how precious life was. Two years previous she fought cancer and went into a coma with little to no brain response. She was on a ventilator and many other machines. She heard her kids talk about pulling the plug and was heartbroken. She said she now understand how a baby would feel about no one wanting them to live. I know stories mean little to those who are prochoice unless it is their own story but I hope that through other peoples experiences we can get a better grasp on how important life is. ALL human life is important.
I’m not surprised — about twenty years ago I used to go out to the clinics to peacefully protest and hand out literature. There were few black people involved back then and the escorts would always run towards me, thinking that since I was a young black woman, I was there for an abortion. They couldn’t possibly fathom that a black woman could be pro-life.
@JackBorsch – my grandsom is only a quarter black so he looks pretty white (at least so far — he might change, since he’s only three months old). You can’t always tell what ethnic origin people are by just looking at them — people always think my daughter is Puerto Rican! You probably heard of the singer Carly Simon — her mother was half black, making her a quarter black, but she looks white.
I just fear that I’ll be walking him in his stroller and someone will think I’m the nanny! :-(
CC says:
My body, my choice.
Please don’t impose your value judgement on what I do with my body.
This lie gets so old. CC, can you acknowledge that the body destroyed in an abortion and tossed in with medical waste is not the mother’s?
D: And, FYI, pregnancy is defined as “the condition of carrying a developing embryo in the uterus”….. huh, no mention of “implantation”…. what is your “science” source? Mine is a Taber’s medical dictionary.
:) Think about what you said. It takes days after fertilization for the egg, then the blastocyst or “pre-embryo” to leave the fallopian tube and get into the uterus. Implantation is said to be necessary for a pregnancy to be fact.
To be sure, not every act of intercourse results in a pregnancy. First, ovulation (i.e., the monthly release of a woman’s egg) must occur. Then, the egg must be fertilized. Fertilization describes the process by which a single sperm gradually penetrates the layers of an egg to form a new cell (“zygote”). This usually occurs in the fallopian tubes and can take up to 24 hours. There is only a short window during which an egg can be fertilized. If fertilization does not occur during that time, the egg dissolves and then hormonal changes trigger menstruation; however, if fertilization does occur, the zygote divides and differentiates into a “preembryo” while being carried down the fallopian tube toward the uterus. Implantation of the preembryo in the uterine lining begins about five days after fertilization. Implantation can be completed as early as eight days or as late as 18 days after fertilization, but usually takes about 14 days. Between one-third and one-half of all fertilized eggs never fully implant. A pregnancy is considered to be established only after implantation is complete.
–American College of Obstetricans and Gynecologists.
Yup nothing “racist, degrading, or stereotyping” about a giant billboard that reads “black children are an endangered species” though.