Parent believes subject of abortion “inappropriate” for middle school students
Kristy Greenwell believes administrators at Mennonite Educational Institute were in the wrong by not notifying parents in advance of a voluntary pro-life demonstration Tuesday in which kids had the option of wearing red stickers that read ‘Life.’
The stickers, an idea that originated Friday afternoon from a Grade 8 girl at the school, were to show student support for unborn fetuses and against abortion.
Greenwell took her three kids out of school for the day and is contemplating taking them out of MEI altogether after she found out about the event not through administrators or teachers, but by overhearing a conversation between her 11-year-old daughter and her nine-year-old son.
“There was nothing informing parents,” said Greenwell.
“I’m sure there are parents who don’t have a problem with it, but I’m sure there are a lot who would if they were made aware that this is the topic that their 11-, 12-and 13-year-olds are being taught.”
Greenwell also questioned whether bringing up the subject of abortion was “appropriate” for middle school students.
~ Parent reacts to student participation in the Pro-life Day of Silent Solidarity, as quoted by The Abbotsford Times, October 20
[Photo via Christian Newswire]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
considering that 11, 12 and 13 year olds sometimes are getting pregnant (some if they are sexually abused) then this topic is very appropriate. it may also help approach other topics like the death penalty and war.
Abortion is war on the preborn babies.
and to add….I read the end of the article and the principal/administrator said this would be the last pro life event at the school. Way to go, principal. Denying the right to speak up about an atrocity that is destroying our nation….the killing of innocent preborn babies.
Good grief.
This “topic” is a worldwide student led movement to silence your voice for ONE day for the preborn who die in abortions.
Sorry principal but the ADF will be calling when you refuse to “allow” it.
Gotta love that TOLERANCE!
Good grief. But by all means, tell the 11, 12 and 13 year-olds about sex, teach gender identity classes, invite Planned Parenthood to hand out condoms and birth control pills, and promote “reproductive freedom and choice.”
Ms. Greenwell has her dander up over nothing. Perhaps her ire is over the fact that her children were told — by another student — that a fetus was a human being that had the right to live.
we didnt discuss abortion in middle school but our teacher showed a movie of a woman giving birth. it didnt bother me at all. it just wasnt all sex sex sex back then!!!
Greenwell took her three kids out of school for the day and is contemplating taking them out of MEI altogether
Any parent who considers CHANGING SCHOOLS over a voluntary, student-led, PRO-LIFE event has something else going on psychologically in regards to abortion that’s not being talked about.
And Liz, GREAT point about this relating to conversations on the death penalty and war. This is a MENNONITE school, and I know for certain the Mennonite position is very much a pacifist one. They are very much against military service and war.
Kids naturally get that abortion kills babies. We’ve discussed this on the blog before. They don’t need the rules on inductive/deductive reasoning, they don’t need to parse and define their terms (a la Doug), they just get it from go.
Perhaps this mom’s children see what she is unwilling to.
Maybe this woman is not connecting violence of abortion with the violence of other items. I suppose she is concerned regarding the sexual content – but it’s straight-forward => an abortion is a purposeful procedure to to end a pre-born baby’s life. Is it ok to end human life? Is it ok to end human life when humans can’t fight back? Is it ok for a bigger person to decide that another will not live.
for 11 year olds, this is a good way to handle the subject.
Unsettling that the principal will not tolerate other pro-life sentiments. Too bad for free speech, and the teaching of good…
The stickers, an idea that originated Friday afternoon from a Grade 8 girl at the school, were to show student support for unborn fetuses and against abortion.
As opposed to a BORN fetus? Can’t say “unborn baby” or “unborn child,” can ya?
According to Guttmacher’s 2008 data, of the approximately 1.21 million abortions in the US, approximately 5000 of them were girls 14 or younger. When exactly should we be talking to our children? I would not say that 11, 12 or 13 is too young. Heck, there are places now where a 12 year old can get an STD vaccination (Gardasil) without her parent’s consent. I have children from 4 up to 21. We talk about these issues around our home regularly, and some of my middle school, high school and adult children are involved in Pro-Life activities. We do not sit down and have direct conversations with our young children (10 or below) about abortion, but they learn about it naturally as they are around when we talk about it. It is just like any other major life issue – cancer, death, marriage, divorce or whatever. It is a part of life. We talk about things. Older kids understand. Younger kids catch on as they get older. Hiding the discussions of abortion or any other life issue from kids just means they will get their information from someone other than their parents or other trusted adults in their lives. It does not mean they will not hear about it.
Soooo… You guys don’t think that parents should be able to excuse their children from subjects and demonstrations they find inappropriate? They shouldn’t get any warning? I am of the opinion that just like sex ed, parents should be able to opt their children out of things they would rather teach themselves. I do think this mom overreacted, but it’s a valid point.
Jack, she sent her child to a Mennonite institution. They are Christian and pro-life.
I don’t think it’s such a big hairy deal that she kept her kids home (though really, I think at middle school age, you ought to have had the discussion on human reproduction, yes???) but now she’s thinking of pulling them out of that school altogether?
Next thing you know, she’ll be objecting to the Bible being read in class, feigning shock. I mean, really.
A stand against killing preborn children isn’t the same as sex education. My kids knew about abortion before they ever got “the talk.”
A few thoughts:
1. The event was *voluntary*. It’s not like her kids were forced to participate if they didn’t want to.
2. Kids even at middle-school ages are becoming sexually-aware, and in some cases, sexually-active. The time for them to know about sex is BEFORE they get themselves into a pickle or are taught values contrary to the truth by their peers.
3. This isn’t ”sex ed”, anyway.
4. I do think it would have been courteous for the school administration to let parents know what was going on so they could choose to pull their kids out if they wanted to. I would expect the same courtesy regarding a secular sex-ed class. However… (see #5)
5. This *is* a Mennonite school we’re talking about. If the mom in this case finds conservative Christian values so offensive, then why the heck are her kids in a Mennonite school?
Well, I suppose everyone else has already made these points. But I agree with all of this. :-)
Three years ago I held a sobbing, 12 year girl in my arms after she had an abortion. Yeah I say middle school is exactly where we should be doing this.
I do think parents should be notified before hand. Just so they will be prepared to answer the questions their kids will have. But this mom, really. Pull your head out of the sand lady. Your kids are reaching or going through puberty already. You will be the one who is shocked when your daughter comes to you tearfully to confide she has an STD or something because you never talked about sex with her or values or respect for our bodies and each other’s lives.
My son is about to turn 5. He knows what abortion is. And he is pro-life as children naturally are. He has seen photos of himself when he was unborn. He has seen his unborn sibling’s heartbeat on ultrasound. Kids get that abortion is wrong.
http://silentday.org/
Absolutely parents should be notified of direct teaching that they can opt their children out of.
But for this? Send papers home to “notify” parents that a couple of students will have tape over their mouths? Really?
A couple of students voluntarily putting tape over their mouths with the word LIFE written on them is grounds to pull kids out for the day and possibly out of the school?
That is called an “overreaction.”
Oh, Ann Marie! Can you share a little bit of that story?
It is possible that since this is a student-organized event that the school administration was not fully aware of the amount of student participation.
This mother overheard her kids talking about it, and it’s quite possible they learned of it from friends at the school, not from the school itself.
If not, then yes, the school is responsible for notifying parents of any and all school activities.
Well, Kel and all, if you feel, like abortion is an appropriate subject for whatever age your child is, by all means teach them about it, or let them be taught about it, whatever. If I disagree about the age-appropriateness of a subject, I have the right to remove my kids and talk about it when I deem appropriate. That’s the beauty of parental rights.
Sydney, just because the mom didn’t want the kids to see this particular demonstration doesn’t mean tthat she doesn’t talk to her kids about sex and abortion.
Jack, it was a group of kids with red stckers on their mouths. There wasn’t a program.
Jack, the kids weren’t being taught about abortion.
And this was a student-organized event. The Pro-life Day of Silent Solidarity can be done by one person or by as many as choose to participate, on any public or private campus, and no administration at the school has to be notified.
Again, Jack, I have no problem that she removed her kids for the day. But to go ballistic and talk about removing your kids from the entire school because of it just tells me she either has no clue what the school stands for or she is overly sensitive to the abortion topic for some reason.
Don’t you think, at the very least, that parents should have been notified ahead of time that the school was sponsoring a political event? What if it had been a war protest instead? Or, setting aside whatever the official Mennonite position on the topic is and just considering hypothetically, an event to show solidarity with the gay rights movement?
Jack, I am assuming she doesn’t since she was lamenting the ages of her kids. I mean, if she is going to get bent out of shape over red tape and the word “Life” (so graphic, I know I know) then I highly doubt she discusses abortion with her kids.
I guess if you’re under the age of ‘born’ you have no right to live. If you’re under the age of 18, apparently some people think you have no right to free speech. But by all means, wear a pair of pants that say “juicy” on the bottom. Sure.
This was not a school event; this was young people expressing their personal opinions.
But, hey, abortion advocates and pro-choice parents, go ahead: tell your kids that you don’t approve of being pro-life. Make my job easier. Seriously. Because when my mom told me that my rock music was bothering her, what did I do?! Hint: I didn’t switch to Lawrence Welk.
One more time: THERE WAS NO “EVENT”- the school didn’t SPONSOR anything. Students individually chose to exercise their first amendment right to free speech by being silent for the day. It was each child’s option, apart from the school. The school could not know nor is it obligated to tell parents what individual children might do.
Ninek, you crack me up. ;)
Hey Mods, I accidently double posted, can you delete my first comment? Thanks. Now turn that music down, you whippersnappers!
Yeah. Gettin all “political” with the red duct tape and a Sharpie at the middle school. Tsk Tsk
“This was not a school event; this was young people expressing their personal opinions.”
“One more time: THERE WAS NO “EVENT”- the school didn’t SPONSOR anything.”
It was a school event. The school apparently produced and distributed these stickers and in so doing it officially endorsed their message.
Joan, take it from someone who has participated in the day of silence. You really just get a piece of tape and write LIFE on it with a Sharpie.
Oooooooh. This makes you VERRRRRRRRRY angry, doesn’t it?
Then how come actually cutting a live baby out of its mother doesn’t make you madder?
Uhh, joan, where, pray tell, does it say the school “produced and distributed” anything?
The article says:“a voluntary pro-life demonstration Tuesday in which kids had the option of wearing red stickers that read ‘Life.’
The stickers, an idea that originated Friday afternoon from a Grade 8 girl at the school”
You can read more about the Pro-life Day of Silent Solidarity here. STUDENTS are the ones who may produce and distribute information on the student-led event. It’s totally grassroots and schools aren’t involved. In fact, if you read the link, you’ll see that students CAN inform their school admin but they don’t have to, and they have a legal right to do this, with or without the school’s (or anyone else’s) permission.
“apparently produced and distributed these stickers”? Where does it say that?
It’s implied. Where would eight graders get stickers that say “life”, if not furnished by the adults in charge of the school in some way? If it was from the girl who originally suggested the idea, the article would have mentioned that, rather than just pointing to her as inspiration for the school’s participation in the event. Even if this isn’t the case, the school still takes responsibility for the event by giving express permission to the minor student who initiated it. Apparently even the superintendent agrees, considering her apology and her promise that no such further events would take place there.
Joan, what’s your real objection??
“It’s implied.”
Oh. So you jumped to that conclusion, you mean.
Several people here have posted links to what the campaign is about, and how one goes about creating said “stickers”, no adults needed. But nice covering of tracks with the “Even if this isn’t the case…” tirade. Save face!
No consent is needed. This fight as been going on all across the country since this event started, and it’s been defended in court as well, if I’m not mistaken, just like the pro-life t-shirt days. The superintendent is wrong (as are you), and I expect to see a court case coming up next year. ^_^
A roll of red duct tape
A black sharpie
Student led
Voluntary
What part of this is so hard to understand?
Students do not need permission to participate. It’s called freedom of speech.
And sorry Joan but it it NOT up to the principal nor the superintendent whether they ALLOW it. Not their call to make.
So, joan, if some pro-choice or pro-gay students took to the school hallways with stickers that said “Choice!” or “Support Gay Marriage!” on a particular day, you’d assume the school distributed those stickers?
Carla, it’s so hard to understand because you would 1st have to accept the idea that young people actually understand what abortion does: silence a human life. Forever.
Talk about the ULTIMATE violation of 1st ammendment rights!
Gee golly whilikers, Wally, I guess even though kids have computers, cell phones, ipads, and more, it’s just impossible to imagine that an 8th grader could print out labels at home!! The horror! How are these young people getting to rolls of tape, sharpies, and printers?
Joan, isn’t it amazing how an 8th grader can get an abortion but not use printer!?
“Students do not need permission to participate. It’s called freedom of speech.
And sorry Joan but it it NOT up to the principal nor the superintendent whether they ALLOW it. Not their call to make.”
This is a private school. Freedom of speech applies to public property and institutions. It’s absolutely their call to make.
“So, joan, if some pro-choice or pro-gay students took to the school hallways with stickers that said “Choice!” or “Support Gay Marriage!” on a particular day, you’d assume the school distributed those stickers?”
If it became known that the school had expressly granted permission to those students, I would suspect it, yes.
Those poor private school students.
NO FREEDOM OF SPEECH FOR YOU!!!
Where would eight graders get stickers that say “life”, if not furnished by the adults in charge of the school in some way?
Sooo, joan, evidently you think eighth graders can’t think for themselves? That they would never think of being pro-life if they didn’t get the idea from adults? Are they only able to think for themselves if they support abortion — in other words, if they’re like you?
Lori,
I guess 8th graders can only GET abortions NOT speak out about life!!!
The world according to Joan.
I wonder if any of the parents would really have had a problem with the demonstration…
The ones who are proabortion might.
Come on, Doug.
That was too easy.
fine then all you pro deathers get some red tape that says “i support killing children” and put it overf your super big pie holes……but most of you cant be quiet for that long!
Carla: The ones who are proabortion might.
Come on, Doug.
That was too easy.
Carla, the “Mennonite Educational Institute.” Am I wrong to suspect that there would be no parents who are truly “pro-abortion” there?
Heather: “….your super big pie holes…”
:) :) Heather, you’re one in a million.
i have been on the sidewalk before with people who wear the red tape before and some bully always comes along and starts screaming at them. then the deathscorts come out and start taking our pictures. i imagine they put them on some terrorist list. puuuuuulllleze
I have no idea what Mennonites believe.
There are proaborts everywhere. Scawy…….whoooooooooooo ooooooooooooh.
What are your thoughts on the woman who yanked her kids? You think she was prolife?
doug so are you ohioan to ohioan :)
or buckeye to buckeye
I think to stay with the four lettered theme it would be have to be the word KILL written on red tape, Heather.
To cover the super big pie holes.
Carla, the Mennonites are Anabaptists, and the church has a pro-life position and statement.
What are your thoughts on the woman who yanked her kids? You think she was prolife?
That was a ‘Duh’ moment for me – I read it wrong, and thought she worked for the school (don’t ask me why) rather than that she was a parent. So, obviously she was one parent who had a problem.
From what’s written, above, I can’t tell if she’s pro-life or pro-choice, but evidently she thinks those kids are just too young.
Maybe we should have Heather measure the woman’s pie hole, and if it turns out to be super big, then that might mean she’s not pro-life…?
carla…lol but their mouths are so big they could fit 50 words on their stickers. like my body my choice abortion is my right. law of the land. we want to kill kill kill etc.:)
Don’t you think, at the very least, that parents should have been notified ahead of time that the school was sponsoring a political event?
Last year, the public high school my child attended had a Day of Silence to protest Bullying. A teachers had a sign up sheets in her room for students to sign if they opposed bullying and if they would participate in being silent for a day. My daughter and her friends signed. The signed list was passed around and other teachers were told that the students who signed up should not be graded down if they chose not to speak in class. Parents received NO notice.
When the day of silence arrived, there were posters all throughout the school (I went and saw these myself). The day of silence was to protest bullying of LGBT folks. My daughter is opposed to all bullying and felt betrayed by the teacher and the school so she chose to talk that day. She was then ostracized by friends and other students and chastised the next day for not remaining silent.
Political much?
ooooooh you could fit 10 pies into some of their mouths and they would still be able to scream and rant and rave. maybe a roll of duct tape?
heather: but their mouths are so big they could fit 50 words on their stickers.
You’re forgetting – how many angels can fit on the head of a pin? Just write small and go for 250.
doug…lol
Carla, the “Mennonite Educational Institute.” Am I wrong to suspect that there would be no parents who are truly “pro-abortion” there?
Doug, there are plenty of non-Christian parents who enroll their kids in parochial Christian schools for a better education than the area public schools. So the answer is YES, you are wrong to suspect there would be no parents who might be “pro-abortion” there.
What are your thoughts on the woman who yanked her kids? You think she was prolife?
I would say yanking your kids for that particular day might just be an indicator that you didn’t feel your kids were “ready” (at middle school age, fer cryin’ out loud, but don’t get me started on that) to know about abortion.
But pondering yanking them from the school completely over this leads me to believe that this woman perhaps does not hold to the pro-life position herself.
Kel, you have a point about there possibly being non-Mennonite families with kids in the school.
Hey – 32 “Likes” for Reality’s post about “Would you wear a t-shirt which says “I Support Forced Pregnancy“? on this thread:
https://www.jillstanek.com/2011/10/anonymous-circuit-riding-abortionist-identified/#comments
Kids understand more about political issues than adults give them credit for sometimes. They also have opinions about these issues, sometimes very strong opinions. They should be allowed to express themselves on these issues.
Nice post, Cecilia, and I agree. Too much book-banning going on as well.
Oh dear, does that mean that enough people want one that I might have to look into having some produced?
The message I get when I see someone with tape over their mouth with the word ‘life’ written on it is that they don’t want to talk about life, predominantly their own for some reason, or that life sucks. I don’t know, it just seems strange.
Maybe if they wore tape across their torso with ‘life vessel’ written on it it would make more sense. But that might exclude chaps, maybe they could wear one saying ‘life support’?
Do you folks every bother to read anything??
Perhaps you could bring all of your lovely life suggestions to Bryan Kemper. Prolife Day of Silent Solidarity is under his leadership.
For the record, I think the day of silence thing was a great idea, and I think the people who participated are awesome and brave. I just think it’s odd people were offended that someone was offended that her kids were around it? Alrighty then.
Cafe Press, Reality. Knock yourself out. :D
Thanks Kel.
I’ll need quantities, sizes, colors and delivery addresses.
Would you like me to organise rolls of tape with ‘life vessel’ and ‘life support’ on them too?
Actually, isn’t it only right that since this has all come about on this site that the ‘shop’ here should get the benefits of this? I’m happy to bestow the rights.
I prefer “life preserver.”
But that doesn’t mean I’m round like one.
Haahahaaaaa I crack myself up. And I need sleep. Goodnight. :)
Hi Jack,
The mother is free to yank her kids out of school for anything she would like. BUT a Mennonite school(which Doug told me is prolife)on a day where students boldly choose to stand for LIFE and a mother overreacts?
Not offended. Just scratching my head.
HAHAHAHA life preserver! That’s awesome!
Since it came up, I never understood the tape over the mouth. It always looks like being silenced by “life,” which makes no sense so I always subconsciously move to being silenced by pro-life.
It is not just the tape. Other students will know you are silent and ask you why. So you hand them this.
http://silentday.org/images/silentday-americanflyer-v3.pdf
Courtnay: Kids naturally get that abortion kills babies. We’ve discussed this on the blog before. They don’t need the rules on inductive/deductive reasoning, they don’t need to parse and define their terms (a la Doug), they just get it from go.
I agree to some extent, C. Kids tend to be “absolute.” However, they don’t all think that “babies” are aborted. My wife teaches High School, and when seeing pictures of the stages of gestation where most abortions are done, many kids will say, “That’s not a baby.” Or, “that’s not a baby yet.”
And many do say that they are babies. Among my wife’s students, most would be “pro-life” in general, and they tend to be “black or white” about abortion, i.e. “it’s okay” or (the majority) “it’s wrong.” That said, even among the “pro-life” girls, when they have an unwanted pregnancy, a significant amount of them end up having abortions. When they’re actually in the situation, things often become a little less “absolute.”
Kids are prolife because the world hasn’t gotten tp their spirits yet (check out Samuel Taylor Coleridge). They aren’t at a point where they might have to sell out, dumb down their morality, or compromise the truth. Soon enough, whacked out liberal thinking under the guise of “tolerance” will slay most of their souls, but beforen that happens, they get it.
The tape over the mouth is a protest against the siolencing of so many voices to abortion. About 3600 today. And tomorrow. And the day after that….
Then those HIGH SCHOOL students are ignorant of human development in the womb. You are a BABY at conception…you just need nine months to grow and develop.
I bet if they saw 3rd trimester abortions, they would be disgusted!
Interestingly, I believe I was the only parent at my children’s CATHOLIC school that was upset when the admin did not notify parents that a local ‘reproductive health service’ was in my eleven year old’s classroom teaching students about STD’s, and all methods of birth control, and who to call if you needed help (hint – it wasn’t their parents, and the ‘hold music’ for that number was a detailed and graphic lecture on male sexual response). I was told that they didn’t notify parents because if they did “the kids who need to hear this message the most would not be allowed to participate”
I don’t believe that the children in this school should be forced by admin to participate in any demonstration, class, etc., without parental notifcation and the opportunity to opt out. However, if my eighth grader, on personal initiative chose to participate in a pro life event, not sponsored by the school, then that would be fine. If my eighth grader on personal initiative chose to participate in a pro abortion event, I would be shocked, suprised, and disagree, then continue to educate said eighth grader on the facts (but that’s a hypothetical, ’cause all my wonderful kids believe in life).
It doesn’t say anywhere in the story that the kids were being taught about abortion in the classroom……or did I miss something?
Liz: I bet if they saw 3rd trimester abortions, they would be disgusted!
I agree, as then it looks like a “baby.”
That said, even among the “pro-life” girls, when they have an unwanted pregnancy, a significant amount of them end up having abortions. When they’re actually in the situation, things often become a little less “absolute.”
Where are the stats on this statement Doug?
And many do say that they are babies. Among my wife’s students, most would be “pro-life” in general, and they tend to be “black or white” about abortion, i.e. “it’s okay” or (the majority) “it’s wrong.” That said, even among the “pro-life” girls, when they have an unwanted pregnancy, a significant amount of them end up having abortions. When they’re actually in the situation, things often become a little less “absolute.”
Oh. I didn’t realize your personal circumstances change what the truth is. Thank you for sharing that funfact with us, Doug.
The truth becomes very mailable for some people when you are told that one teensy, tiny little (legal) killing will make aaaaaaallll your problems go away. You will not find those types of people among the Pro-Lifers here on this blog. That is what makes us Pro-Life.
Doug needs to be sent a fetal model of a 10-12 week preborn baby…cause you certainly look like a BABY then….and many abortions happen around that time!
Thanks, Carla. I was confused too, why would you send your child to a religious school and be upset that they have demonstrations about conservative values and opinions? I was just reacting to what I saw as a judgement on the mother.
Hi Jack,
Oh there was some judgment. :)
Just looking on,
There is no direct instruction in classrooms on abortion. Students voluntarily wear red duct tape over their mouths with the word LIFE written on it and vow to be silent for the preborn that have no voice. They hand out fliers with the reasons they are silent on one side and fetal development facts on the other.
HI Doug,
The baby I delivered into my hand at 10 weeks?? Yeah, he looked just like a baby!!
Not a frog or a chicken or a tadpole or a bunch of red circles.
I’d like to set the record straight, my kids go to this school and the woman stated in article DOES NOT have children at the school. The Superintendent was misquoted…he did NOT say it would be the last one. And the girl who inspired it handed out red tape and a Sharpie and they wrote the word Life themselves…the whole article is one big lie!!
“That said, even among the “pro-life” girls, when they have an unwanted pregnancy, a significant amount of them end up having abortions. When they’re actually in the situation, things often become a little less “absolute.”
Praxedes: Where are the stats on this statement Doug?
They’re particular to a high school near Atlanta, Praxedes, as told by my wife who’s taught there for 5 years. I do think it fits with the case of older women, including those who describe themselves as “born again,” and as “pro-life” where some of them – the stats there are usually 15-20% – have abortions.
Xalisae: Oh. I didn’t realize your personal circumstances change what the truth is. Thank you for sharing that funfact with us, Doug.
X, the truth is that for some women, having an abortion is the wrong thing, and for some it’s the right thing. The circumstances make a great deal of difference to many women.
Liz: Doug needs to be sent a fetal model of a 10-12 week preborn baby…cause you certainly look like a BABY then….and many abortions happen around that time!
Liz, I’ve seen pictures all the way through, and I agree, at a point “baby” is what the pictures look like,.
Jennie: I’d like to set the record straight, my kids go to this school and the woman stated in article DOES NOT have children at the school.
That is really odd – that was my impression at first, don’t know why, unless the wording of the thread introduction was changed.
X, the truth is that for some women, having an abortion is the wrong thing, and for some it’s the right thing. The circumstances make a great deal of difference to many women.
Well, as a woman coming from a position where having an abortion would’ve been “the right thing” for me if I was the kind of person who was able to do anything and everything I could to make my life as easy as possible with total disregard for every other human being on planet Earth to the point of being able to kill my own child, I can safely say that the “for them” part is completely irrelevant because in a civilized society, certain obligations exist to other human beings.
They’re particular to a high school near Atlanta, Praxedes, as told by my wife who’s taught there for 5 years.
As a teacher, how exactly was your wife privy to who had abortions? I thought abortions were confidential.
I think I know teachers like your wife.
Here’s the twitter for the dude who wrote the article:
http://twitter.com/#!/camabbytimes
How about requesting a little journalistic integrity? ;)
Umm…also…if this information is accurate, which I’m pretty sure it is, why the heck did they have a sports reporter doing a story like this?
Praxedes: As a teacher, how exactly was your wife privy to who had abortions? I thought abortions were confidential.
Even if a teacher has no direct communication with the girl involved, other girls often know, and other girls talk to some teachers, especially teachers like my wife.
Xalisae: I can safely say that the “for them” part is completely irrelevant because in a civilized society, certain obligations exist to other human beings.
No, you can’t “safely” say that, X. The wishes of the pregnant woman, society’s valuing of liberty, the principle of not having government dictate to the people without good enough reason – none of these are going to go away.
There certainly is the question of what, if any, obligations to the unborn we have.
And some teachers use their position and beliefs to influence children in difficult circumstances.
If a teen says she is prolife and then goes on to choose to kill her offspring, the adults in her life and community have failed her.
Does your wife go the mile and find out if what these girls that are gossiping about other girls say is true? Does she find out if the “prolife” girls who are aborting are having sex with adult men? Or does she just listen to the gossip and do nothing?
If she’s not part of the solution, she’s part of the problem.
Praxedes: If a teen says she is prolife and then goes on to choose to kill her offspring, the adults in her life and community have failed her.
My wife’s school is very heavily African-American, and there is a broad (perhaps so broad as to be somewhat nebulous at times) and prevalent “Christian ethic” that most of the kids – by far – generally subscribe to.
Lots of the kids have already been “failed” by adults. There are roughly 175 girls in each grade, and it’s not like there is an “epidemic” of teen pregnancy. I’m guessing 3 to 8 girls get pregnant per grade per year, something like that. What struck me is that with those numbers and the generally-adopted “pro-life” stance of the kids, you’d think there would be almost no abortions. There are enough that I’m thinking it’s like the abortion rate among “Christian Fundamentalist” women as a whole in the US – which really would not be that big a surprise, now that I think about it.
A few of the girls have babies and are doing pretty well being mothers and continuing school. Some are not willing to remain pregnant, in no way want to have babies, and have abortions.
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Does your wife go the mile and find out if what these girls that are gossiping about other girls say is true? Does she find out if the “prolife” girls who are aborting are having sex with adult men? Or does she just listen to the gossip and do nothing?
There may be some pregnancies which result from substantially older men – I mean more than just a year or two out of school – and there are probably some pregnancies where the girl has an abortion and tells no one. I’ll ask my wife; haven’t heard of any such cases – the truly “older men.” Most or all of the fathers are known to the other girls, being current or former students.