“16 & Pregnant” star slammed as “anti-abortion extremist”
Last week Catelynn posted the following checklist on Instagram with the hashtag #prolife:
… Catelynn isn’t just an advocate for adoption. She’s an advocate against abortion as well. Her tweets use anti-abortion rhetoric (“kill an innocent child”) and she’s even against abortion in the case of rape, which is the same extremist anti-abortion position held by conservative Republican politicians like Mike Huckabee and Richard Mourdock.
It’s possible to advocate for adoption and still support a woman’s right to choose, but that’s not what Catelynn is doing. She is assuming her choice was the only choice that was the right choice, thus ignoring the very real fact that Catelynn and Tyler’s adoption was a privileged one considering they are both Caucasian (which, unfortunately, helps find an adoptive home) and their child was born without any physical or developmental abnormalities….
I’m sincerely happy that [they] made the decision that was best for them; my dad and his first wife dropped out of college when they were 21 to raise my eldest sister and I’m happy about that, too. I’m also happy another family member chose to terminate a pregnancy instead of bringing a child into the world that could not have been properly cared for at the time.
I’m glad I live in a country where all these choices are viable options supported by the law.
~ Jessica Wakeman at The Frisky, criticizing Catelynn Lowell of MTV’s 16 & Pregnant, December 3 Update: 16 and Pregnant Stars Speak at Pro-Life Conference

Posting pro-life images on Instagram makes you an extremist? Compare #prolife and #prochoice hashtags on Instagram. There are more anti-abortion extremists than pro-abortion extremists.
So she is happy her sister was allowed to live, but happy her other relative was killed? That’s called hypocrisy. Since when does anyone celebrate the life of one loved one and the intentional killing of another?
One lived. One died. One will not be celebrating Christmas with your family this year.
Tis the season right Jessica Wakeman?
I’m also happy another family member chose to terminate a pregnancy instead of bringing a child into the world that could not have been properly cared for at the time.
Let us reword that sentence taking out the anti life euphemisms shall we?
I’m also happy another family member chose to kill her unborn baby instead of bringing a child into the world that could not have been properly cared for at the time.
Babies are NOT pregnancies. And “terminating” is such a polite word for the act of killing.
She’s…. happy?!?!?!? I thought abortion was this horrible choice that some women had to make…..
That just makes me sick. You’re seriously happy one of your family members was killed?
Hon, no matter how horrible life seems, there is *always* hope, and killing is never, ever the answer.
Now I want to go make a baby so I can love and hold her/him when I hear something like this.
ignoring the very real fact that Catelynn and Tyler’s adoption was a privileged one considering they are both Caucasian (which, unfortunately, helps find an adoptive home)
LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES!!!!!!!!!!! There are ZERO available young children of ANY RACE that don’t have severe (and I mean SEVERE) health issues. ZERO, people. I’ll grant that there may be MORE families waiting for a Caucasian child, but we’re still talking thousands (if not tens of thousands) waiting for a young child of ANY race. I cannot stand the abject ignorance on this issue.
Also, I’m going to start a hashtag (after I join Twitter I guess) #SoNoOneIsProAbortionEh, for all these people who allegedly detest abortion but are just SO happy about it.
We as a society need to come up with a consistent definition of extemist, as it gets thrown around too much these days.
JDC, that’s such an extremist thing to say. ;)
I’ll grant that there may be MORE families waiting for a Caucasian child, but we’re still talking thousands (if not tens of thousands) waiting for a young child of ANY race. I cannot stand the abject ignorance on this issue.
I can’t stand it, either, and I absolutely HATE when people say this. I hate to throw the “r” word around but it’s just plain racist to say this. Unfortunately, I hear some people of color say this too. One well-known black politician said black males are unadoptable. When I used to sidewalk counsel I talked to a young woman about adoption and she said “nobody wants my black baby.” That’s a lie!
Tell the people in the adoption unit at my agency this, I guess they should just quit trying, since most of the children they are trying to place are black. There ARE people that are willing to adopt nonwhite babies handicapped infants, and older children too. Just because they don’t fit the definition of what this person thinks is “adoptable” that means they should be destroyed in utero?
And as for her relative who couldn’t properly care for a baby, why not give him or her to someone who would love and welcome the chance to do so?
Oh heaven forbid Catelynn form her own convictions, make a decision based on those convictions, and nd not follow the sheep mentality of the pro-choice movement of “if you’ve ever had an unplanned pregnancy, then you have to support the right to choose (abortion) regardless of whatever decision you made.”
My sister and her husband who are white want to adopt so badly and guess what? Race doesn’t matter to them! They would adopt asian, black, white whatever…but there AREN’T ENOUGH BABIES for all the couples who want to adopt! This whole “only white babies get adopted” is a LIE.
And this chick says she is glad a family member aborted because the child couldn’t be cared for? Didn’t Catelynn and Tyler just show that adoption allows that child to be cared for if the birth parents can’t? Big bucket of duh Jessica!
angel says:
December 6, 2012 at 10:20 am
I’m also happy another family member chose to terminate a pregnancy instead of bringing a child into the world that could not have been properly cared for at the time.
Let us reword that sentence taking out the anti life euphemisms shall we?
I’m also happy another family member chose to kill her unborn baby instead of bringing a child into the world that could not have been properly cared for at the time.
Babies are NOT pregnancies. And “terminating” is such a polite word for the act of killing.
(Denise) I asked Eleanor Cooney if she would have carried to term and placed for adoption if there had been more positive recognition for birthmothers during the time period in which she was pregnant. She replied that “adoption was quite irrelevant” because “I just wasn’t going to complete the pregnancy.”
A pregnancy must be carried for a baby to get born. If the female who is pregnant doesn’t carry, there is no birth.
Eleanor also said I was making the same mistake many people make. She wasn’t afraid of any stigma due to having a baby out of wedlock. Instead, she rejected “the pregnancy itself” which is to say the necessary conditions of pregnancy.
She went further to state that “in some wildly alternative universe” in which she had carried to term, there would have been no relinquishment for adoption and “no stigma.” Her family would have been fine with raising a baby.
The wild word war is getting wackier! Recently, the young man who stars on “Two and a Half Men” made a video where he talked about his life and his recent commitment to Christianity. On the video he is rational and soft spoken. He never gets excited or raises his voice. Yet, the mainstream media was all over it, using words like “rant” and “attacked his show” and “meltdown.” Really folks? George Orwell would deem our current MSM as “doubleplusungood!!”
I’m just going to out-stubborn them. Abortion is murder. Pregnancy is natural and shouldn’t be shamed. Terminating a pregnancy terminates a living, growing human child’s life.
And finally, EVEN THE ABORTIONISTAS ARE CALLING KATE’S BABY… A BABY!!!
I know people who are adopted by 2 white parents who are bi-racial. They aren’t loved any less than if they had been full caucasion. I think the idea that NOBODY wants anything but a “white” baby is baloney. Even celebrities prove that wrong. (some of them going to Africa or China for children).
It amazes me how some pro-choicers say they support “any choice a mother makes” but the minute someone (and it seems to me, particularly if that someone is a pro-lifer) saying how much they love their baby and had a baby or adopted or supporting adoption suddenly it’s a problem.
I’d love to have this proved wrong, by the way, but so far it hasn’t been. I’m not saying EVERY pro-choicer is this way, but I’ve noticed it’s a pretty popular stance.
“I’m sincerely happy that [they] made the decision that was best for them”
What a world it would be if we all only did what we thought was best for ourselves. I mean, we’re getting there, but many people still truly care about others.
LibertyBelle, I see a common theme in a couple of your recent comments. ; )
God’s blessings!
Jessica Wakeman is a REAL warrior on women.
Lol LifeJoy, I was going to say “there’s a common theme on this blog” and then I looked and realized my hormones are slipping out in my comments. :D Yeah, husband and I pretty much really really want to be parents, especially after a few ‘close calls’ recently…. God’s blessings to you, too!
@ ninek: Should abortion be prosecuted as murder?
It never has been.
CT, you are completely correct. When I volunteered with my state’s foster care system, there was not a single child under the age of 12 or 13 free for adoption. The minors available tend to be teenagers who are often disturbed or violent due to their messed-up parents. Society certainly needs to do more to find these teenagers new homes and families, but that has nothing to do with babies or abortion. Implying that non-white babies are difficult to place for adoption is a LIE.
Adoption is available. It’s always been available. There is no movement to outlaw it. Although adoption wounds children, it is obviously better to be alive and (possibly) troubled than to be dead.
But 1 million and 1/2 women per year are not having babies and placing them for adoption.
Why?
Abso-freakin’-lutely, abortion should be prosecuted as murder the moment it’s illegal. As to punishment, I would leave that up to the courts to decide, depending on factors like coercion, abuse, intent, etc.
Sometimes, a baby dies when the mother’s life is saved, such as the cases of ectopic pregnancy, but that is not a deliberate and willful murder of a human being. Ectopic pregnancy is a tragic circumstance where it is not yet medically possible to save both the baby and the mother at the same time.
@ninek: This may surprise some of you but I can see some good coming out of this. After about 25% or so of the fertile female population is clamped behind bars, the rest of us will all be able to become polyandrists because men in the free world will so outnumber women. Yeah! We non-aborters can have harems of husbands!
Hah! Abortion isn’t going to become illegal. Even if it did, the charge would be something akin to manslaughter, not murder.
You are aware Denise, that if all those women are behind bars it would mean that some of those men you covet would be pro-choicers.
….But I don’t want to belong to a polyandrous harem. :'(
Please see http://www.adoptuskids.org to see listings of children available for adoption through the foster care system. Many are young. Adoption through foster care is not only free but eligible for up to 10K tax deduction (even though one doesn’t actually spend any $$ on adoption expenses). There are thousands listed.
^I love that website Shirley, I have posted it before.
I think it’s false to claim that all children get adopted. A lot of the couples who are on adoption lists looking for a baby right now could have a child in their home asap, they just don’t get children from foster care for some reason (I suspect some of their reasons are not exactly altruistic).
Obama’s view that babies can be killed after birth is more extreme. Does that make Obama a super-extremely extremist?
Run a search for single children (not sibling groups), under 5. 61 in the entire country. 61 waiting children under the age of 5 available for adoption. Increase the number of children up to 3 (so would accept a sibling group of 3) – same exact number. For tens of thousands of waiting families. The majority have severe medical problems. If you run a search with no parameters at all – so that it returns all waiting children, you get 4007. For tens of thousands of families.
So no, Jack, people could not have a baby in their homes right now, and not every family is ready to go from no children to a 12 year old. I want to do all we can for these children, and help families who are apprehensive to take the step if they can. But can we please dwell in reality? The majority of children in foster care – the huge numbers that people always point to – are NOT available for adoption b/c the parental rights of their parents have not been terminated.
I don’t want to in any way discourage people from foster care adoptions. The opposite in fact – it is so wonderful! But the misinformation has got to stop.
I said they could have a child in their home soon, doesn’t mean every single one could adopt a child asap. The kids who are in foster care who don’t have their parental rights terminated still need someone to care for them, why not a couple who is waiting for a child of their own? If adoption is actually about giving a child a home, then people with empty homes, wishes to raise a child and love them, and have the money to do so (if you can spend 20k on an adoption you probably have the resources to temporarily foster some children) should at least consider foster care kids. I think it would be a good temporary solution for the kids in need of care and the childless couple.
Well you did say they could have a baby asap, so I was going by that. Most people could not have a young child asap. As for fostering vs adoption, you answered your own question when you said “wishes to raise a child.” Most people want to parent a child, to actually raise them. It is a very different experience than a foster situation of unknown duration, as amazing as that gift to a child is. It’s like the people who tell infertile people to “just adopt” (b/c it’s so easy – all those waiting babies, you know)….now it’s “just foster”? It’s just a little bit flippant – like hey you could have a kid under your roof right now, what’s your problem. Having said that, I think a lot of people could definitely be encouraged in that direction, and not just people without children. Just like we were talking about yesterday, people often take a more dim view than they should as to what they can handle, whether it’s fostering a child, or adding more children to their families through birth or adoption. A little faith can go a long way.
“Well you did say they could have a baby asap, so I was going by that. Most people could not have a young child asap.”
Yeah I should have been more clear. I’m sorry about that. Though I do think many couples disregard adopting from foster care out of hand and end up going straight to things like international adoption.
“As for fostering vs adoption, you answered your own question when you said “wishes to raise a child.” Most people want to parent a child, to actually raise them. It is a very different experience than a foster situation of unknown duration, as amazing as that gift to a child is. It’s like the people who tell infertile people to “just adopt” (b/c it’s so easy – all those waiting babies, you know)….now it’s “just foster”? It’s just a little bit flippant – like hey you could have a kid under your roof right now, what’s your problem.”
There’s probably a whole lot of my own personal bias in that. I have no experience of wanting to be a parent but not being able to, but I have a whole lot of experience being an unloved child. So I find it extremely hard to feel sympathy for people who are willing to wait 2-5 years or even decades to get a “perfect” newborn when they could be touching the lives of many children who need someone, anyone to give a crap about them. And I know I am biased against people I see as “well off”. So that’s just personal bias on my end.
But really, I do think it’s selfish. We go on and on about all children being important, and contraception is decried on the grounds that we are being selfish and not opening up to a child regardless of whether we are financially/emotionally prepared, but it’s magically not selfish to have an empty home while you wait for a newborn, when there are children out there that need love and caring now. They may not be perfect, they may have been horribly abused and/or have health issues, and they may not “belong” to the childless couple, but they are just as important as that “perfect” newborn that is adoptable.
“Having said that, I think a lot of people could definitely be encouraged in that direction, and not just people without children. Just like we were talking about yesterday, people often take a more dim view than they should as to what they can handle, whether it’s fostering a child, or adding more children to their families through birth or adoption. A little faith can go a long way. ”
I would love it if more people fostered, when I can I want to foster teenage boys because literally no one cares about them. I just can’t when I can barely feed my own. I will as soon as I am able, and in the mean time I will volunteer at homeless youth shelters (where those boys end up, if not in juvey, because a lot of foster homes won’t accept them).
“….But I don’t want to belong to a polyandrous harem. :’(” – I’m right with you there Jack! I’m a one woman man too. Heck I’m not even up for ‘friends with benefits’. With gentlemen like you and I in the world I guess some women are just so lucky ;-)
3…..2…..1…..
Oh no you didn’t Reality! :)
But seriously, I do not want to share or be shared. Not my thing, maybe when I was a dumb teenager but certainly not now.
Hey Denise said something legitimately funny! Of course, knowing her she was probably being dead serious and the humour was likely accidental.
I would guess she was serious actually lol.
“I would guess she was serious actually lol.”
It can be a tough call at times, but I agree with your judgement on this one.
Nope, not even as a dumb teenager Jack. Always been keen to get to know one person properly. Not greedy. nothing to excess.
Maybe Denise is someones ‘alternate’?
“Nope, not even as a dumb teenager Jack. Always been keen to get to know one person properly. Not greedy. nothing to excess.”
Well then you are a better man than me in that way, though I was more depressed than greedy, lol. Now I just need to get you to stop this whole pro-abort stuff and you’ll be golden. :)
Funny you should say that Jack. I was having a similar conversation with my doctor and he said he’d been a bit um…’prolific’ when he was going through an angry stage when he was younger.
I guess that whole ‘men are from mars, women are from venus’ theory has been blown away too. That rover explorer thingie currently on mars has seen nary a sign of a tv remote or empty beer can.
“but it’s magically not selfish to have an empty home while you wait for a newborn, when there are children out there that need love and caring now.”
I wouldn’t say it’s magically not selfish. There’s that element, but not in the way most people think of it. It’s not just people sitting around sipping champagne and passing over kids like “What say you, buffy? Not perfect enough? I agree. Next.” There’s a lot of fear involved and not just the fear of imperfection. A lot of times you’re talking about people who have NEVER had children and asking them to be open to temporarily parenting an older child or a group of siblings. It’s a lot to feel prepared for. Or for kids with severe medical needs, not every family can offer that child what they need on even a temporary basis. Also even among people pursuing expensive adoptions, many are not rich and are borrowing heavily from family and friends and or refinancing homes. I have a friend who was begging (literally) for any amount of money from everyone she knew to help her raise the money in time for an adoption opportunity. I totally get what you’re saying but I do think your perception of the average person pursing these adoptions might be a little off (which you generously acknowledged).
There’s also the fact that the dream of a family – children to raise, children who will call you mom and dad etc. is a hard dream to let go of. Fostering is a beautiful calling but it doesn’t erase the other dream and there are a lot of emotions tied up in that that can make a foster situation unworkable. In no way am I comparing people to dogs (not that this will spare me from the wrath of some I’m sure), but I know people who have tried to foster dogs and do not have the emotional capacity to part with them in a healthy way. The emotional weight that accompanies infertility is different for everyone, but for someone under that strain, a “temporary solution” as you called it could be absolutely devastating, especially if they know they have to send the kids back to a bad situation. None of these objections are deal breakers or excuses not to do some serious soul searching. Are you really unable or are you afraid of the self-sacrifice involved. Is God calling you to something? Do you need to reconsider your plans? Can you put the dreams of a child who needs to be loved before your own dreams? Everyone needs to really search their motivations. Some people who feel overwhelmed by uncertainty and fear would find that fostering is a blessing they never could have imagined – they just need to take the leap. Honestly – I think hearing from people like you who have been in that position is the best thing to help break through their fears.
“Funny you should say that Jack. I was having a similar conversation with my doctor and he said he’d been a bit um…’prolific’ when he was going through an angry stage when he was younger.”
I would wager there are less “players” than you would think, some men who are total man whores are just going through a rough time. I think that’s weird about gender roles, women who sleep around are assumed to have self-esteem issues or being pressured into it, while men are assumed to always be the aggressors and have no mental issues with sleeping around at all. It’s not necessarily true on either end, I think. I actually think it’s rarer to not prefer some type of monogamy than not, male or female. People in general like to be loved.
“There’s a lot of fear involved and not just the fear of imperfection. A lot of times you’re talking about people who have NEVER had children and asking them to be open to temporarily parenting an older child or a group of siblings. It’s a lot to feel prepared for. Or for kids with severe medical needs, not every family can offer that child what they need on even a temporary basis. ”
Yeah, and I can see that. But I have no idea why contraception users are always the ones who get the “selfish, hedonist, just wanna have sex with no babies blah blah blah” accusations, while adoptive couples are generally painted as these benevolent, loving couples who are opening their homes. I personally don’t think it’s particularly praiseworthy to adopt a healthy, in demand newborn because you want to be a mom or dad, no more than I think it’s particularly praiseworthy to not have another child because you don’t feel up for it. It’s just what it is. They are both primarily “selfish” motivations, the adoptive couple wants their own baby, the contracepting couple likes their lifestyle the way it is for whatever reason. I don’t see a whole lot of moral difference there, yet it’s the contracepting couple who gets the selfish accusations.
And I do see your point with adoptive couples not being as “well off” as I imagine. It’s just my personal bias showing through.
“There’s also the fact that the dream of a family – children to raise, children who will call you mom and dad etc. is a hard dream to let go of. Fostering is a beautiful calling but it doesn’t erase the other dream and there are a lot of emotions tied up in that that can make a foster situation unworkable. In no way am I comparing people to dogs (not that this will spare me from the wrath of some I’m sure), but I know people who have tried to foster dogs and do not have the emotional capacity to part with them in a healthy way. ”
Yeah, well, we all have dreams that we will never have. If life isn’t going to give you that particular dream, then why not try to make the best of it and help other people? I know that I sound cold, and I’ll never deal with infertility so I can’t really relate, but I can’t get over the kids who need help and the situations they are in, and sometimes all it takes is one single person who loves them for at least a little while to make their life livable. That’s more important to me than unfulfilled dreams of adults. And yes I know I sound insensitive and cold towards the adults here, but I don’t know how to change that.
I guess my main complaint with the adoption stuff is it’s pretty obvious to me it’s often not really about giving a child a home, it’s about adults who desire a child of their own. I don’t think that’s bad for people to want to adopt so they will have a child, I don’t see anything wrong with it, I just don’t think it’s praiseworthy, no more than me having bio kids because my wife wanted children is praiseworthy, it’s just a thing. I do think it’s praiseworthy to foster children who are either unadoptable or older, abuse victims, siblings groups, or medically compromised.
To be clear, I don’t think it’s bad to adopt just because you want to have your own family. I just think it’s ridiculous that people paint this as a self-sacrificing, benevolent thing. It’s not amazing to get a baby because you desperately want one. It just is.
Ultimately my point was to refute the lie of all these babies/young children waiting to be adopted not to get into a debate about whether fostercare or adoption is more praiseworthy. I don’t think it matters. As someone who wants to encourage women to choose adoption over abortion (assuming parenting is not something they are considering), I’m not going to sit here and downplay the people who want to adopt a child. That often prevents that child from entering the foster system in the first place and that is a good thing.
I think you can advocate for fostercare without downplaying the sacrifices of people who are adoptive or biological parents (good ones of course). I work a lot in animal rescue, and I pretty much exclusively adopt the unadoptables. The ones no one wants. Again, I’m not comparing people to animals, but I do understand your passion for the ones that seem to get left behind. Everyone likes the puppies. Everyone likes the small dogs. Everyone likes the heartbreaking story (we’ll get dozens of adoption requests for a publicized story and then all those who didn’t adopt the “famous” dog don’t go on to adopt a different dog – it’s very frustrating). I like the old ones, the weird ones, the blind ones, the “dangerous” breeds. All of that. Sometimes people do just want an accessory, but usually they just have this image in their mind that you need to help them overcome. And sometimes they truly should stick with the small, easier dog. Some people are cut out for that. It’s still a contribution of their time and love – it still matters to THAT dog. Ultimately – adoption is good, fostercare is good, having biological kids is good. These are good things, though the motivations can be selfish. I want to encourage all of them and urge people to step out of their comfort zone. You can help them see that – you are a tremendous witness to help people see the possibilities.
Sorry – I may be getting incoherent. Time for bed. Hopefully you get the gist amidst that rambling!
Adoption is available. It always has been. Yet girls and women who find they are pregnant don’t automatically say, “If I don’t want to raise after having a baby, I’ll just place for adoption.”
They seek abortions.
Why?
In addition, does anyone foresee a time in which more than a million babies per year will be placed for adoption?
Will people start asking as a matter of course, “Are you keeping this baby or placing for adoption?”
…. I don’t want a harem of husbands! One is enough…. :(
Couldn’t i just borrow some extra husbands for the weekend? There’s a lot of yard work to be done, and the car needs an oil change..
I wanted to adopt out of the foster system in my state. I am well over their age limit. It is extremely daunting to imagine fostering older children, especially with behavior issues such as food hoarding, theft, sexual acting out after abuse, etc. If you already have children, it could put them in danger. It’s not to be taken lightly and the kids won’t benefit from moving yet again when you can’t handle them.
I don’t claim to know the solution to fixing all the problems that can come with adoption and fostering, but I am 100 percent certain that being born is better than being aborted. And what of those adults with chronic health issues, or who are too elderly to take in a child? The abortionistas like to say we can’t be pro-life if we don’t adopt, but that’s not fair. That’s like saying you can’t be against murder in general if you didn’t rescue anyone from it. We can’t all wait in dark alleys wearing superhero suits!
Jack, Reality, I hear you. At my advanced age I am trying my luck at online dating sites. Its amazing how many married men are out there “looking.” Sorry, I don’t want to be anybody’s “side piece.”
CT, I admire you for working in animal rescues. It must be heartbreaking. I can’t understand people who abuse animals. In my area a dog was set on fire in its carrier. Can you imagine the agony the poor thing went through? Who could do such a thing? I wish I could take in all the unloved children and animals in the world, but I can’t.
Speaking of foster care, here’s an organization that helps young adults aging out of the system, who often have a very hard time. Its great because you can donate directly to the kids:
https://camellianetwork.org/about
JackBorsch says:
A lot of the couples who are on adoption lists looking for a baby right now could have a child in their home asap, they just don’t get children from foster care for some reason (I suspect some of their reasons are not exactly altruistic).
And yes I know I sound insensitive and cold towards the adults here, but I don’t know how to change that.
You could start by stopping the judgment and suspicions of others’ motives, intentions, and character. You don’t like when people make these accusations against those that use contraception so you’re going to turn around and do the same against people that adopt infants? Nice.
I know, I slept on it and I know I need to work on empathizing with people I don’t relate to a lot better. It’s one of my real failings and it’s rude.
And incredibly hypocritical because I really dislike being judged.
It’s a human failing shared by everyone, Jack. We judge others based on incomplete knowledge and draw uncharitable conclusions as a result. The only solution I’ve found (and fail at repeatedly) is to try to assume the best of everyone. IMO, all these labels we use to refer to our fellow humans doesn’t help. (well-off, poor, conservative, liberal… and yes, pro-life/pro-choice) It makes it so much easier to make false assumptions and de-humanize each other.
“. The only solution I’ve found (and fail at repeatedly) is to try to assume the best of everyone. IMO, all these labels we use to refer to our fellow humans doesn’t help. (well-off, poor, conservative, liberal… and yes, pro-life/pro-choice) ”
Oh yeah completely. I’m overly suspicious of everyone anyway (which is a crappy attitude to have), and it’s made worse because I separate people in my head. I know that I tend to label people who have it “easy” and those who have it “hard”. And then I will defend and hate judgment of those I have deemed having it hard enough in my subjective interpretation, and then disdain and question the motives of those I think have it easy. It’s a terrible way at looking at people, I really do try to counteract it but I haven’t become successful yet. I just need to keep remembering that everyone’s problems are hard enough to them, and it’s not my business to decide they aren’t difficult enough. :/
Jack, maybe you don’t understand a lot of adoption processes and the aftermaths. Of course, it totally depends on where you get the kids, but a lot of them have emotional, health, and behavioral issues before hand. And it’s a grueling, expensive, long process that is most definitely not as fun or easy as making a baby as the traditional way (which is arguably fun, easy and free ;) ).
But I do agree with the fact that you don’t like people acting like adoption makes them saints, and I certainly do know some who come out and act like it makes them these great and selfless heroes. It annoys me that people crow about the good they do (though Iknow I have been guilty of this). I think it takes away from the good they are doing and it makes me annoyed at them. There’s totally a line that people can cross when doing good things – I’ve seen so so so many times where people broadcast their “out reaches” all over FB but the obvious intent is to make them look good, like these wonderful Christians. BLECH. That, to me, takes away from the whole point of what they’re doing. If you’re really so concerned about these people, why the constant status updates and photos of you look so cute with them?!?!?!? Okay, rant done now. In short, Jack, I feel ya, bro.
I just need to keep remembering that everyone’s problems are hard enough to them, and it’s not my business to decide they aren’t difficult enough. :/
That reminds me of the book the Outsiders. “It’s tough all over.” Everyone in every situation has their own problems, and while they may look easy to us on the outside, we’re not there, so we don’t know. It’s hard to maintain that perspective.
“ That reminds me of the book the Outsiders. “It’s tough all over.” Everyone in every situation has their own problems, and while they may look easy to us on the outside, we’re not there, so we don’t know. It’s hard to maintain that perspective.”
Lol yeah, and it doesn’t help that I have my bar set for “bad enough” insanely high because I am a judgmental jerk. It’s really difficult to get rid of that way of thinking.
“Lol yeah, and it doesn’t help that I have my bar set for “bad enough” insanely high because I am a judgmental jerk. It’s really difficult to get rid of that way of thinking.”
Jack. You are probably not more judgmental than some of the rest of us, at least by nature. You are just very honest. But changing the way we talk helps to change the way we think. Lrning’s approach is a great reminder for me as well – even/ especially in my dealing with myself.
The truth is that abortion and adoption are solutions to 2 different problems.
Abortion means not having to complete the pregnancy.
Adoption means not having to raise a baby the birthmother can’t raise or doesn’t want to raise.
Carrying to term can’t be turned over to someone else. If the girl or woman is not going to carry, she aborts. They do this even though they already know that carrying to term does not have to mean raising.
But I do agree with the fact that you don’t like people acting like adoption makes them saints, and I certainly do know some who come out and act like it makes them these great and selfless heroes.
I don’t think I am a saint or a hero. I only mention it when people say that no one wants to adopt children of color. I also hate when people act like all adoptions end happily ever after. Adopted kids tend to have more behavioral problems than biological children; I have told you about what I’ve gone through with Isaiah. He’s in rehab now. That doesn’t mean these kids should be aborted, of course, but sometimes I think that prolifers paint an overly rosy picture of things.
phillymiss says:
December 7, 2012 at 3:06 pm
But I do agree with the fact that you don’t like people acting like adoption makes them saints, and I certainly do know some who come out and act like it makes them these great and selfless heroes.
I don’t think I am a saint or a hero. I only mention it when people say that no one wants to adopt children of color. I also hate when people act like all adoptions end happily ever after. Adopted kids tend to have more behavioral problems than biological children; I have told you about what I’ve gone through with Isaiah. He’s in rehab now. That doesn’t mean these kids should be aborted, of course, but sometimes I think that prolifers paint an overly rosy picture of things.
(Denise) How about preventing problem pregnancies in the first place?
How about making it easier for people to marry young — and thus more likely to be virgins at marriage?
How about reviving chaperoned dating?
How about more adult supervision of young people?
Ohm Phillymiss, I know. two of my cousins are adopted, and boy do they have issues. And they’re only 9! It’s not the faults of their adoptive parents, it just is. I was explaining to Jack that it’s not a cake walk by any means. Adoption is fraught with difficulties, and it’s a great thing to do.
However, and this is NO reflection on you or anyone I’ve seen on this site, there is a certain attitude among some people who adopt who do it as a reflection on themselves. “Oh look how humanitarian I am, bringing in this child of color” or whatever. I was sympathizing that yes, there are people out there like that. I don’t get that from you, Phillymiss. Heck, I didn’t know you are an adoptive mom till right now. :)
When I point out problems with adoption, everyone concludes: “She thinks every unplanned pregnancy should end with the embryo or fetus ripped out of the womb.” That should not be the conclusion.
It should be: how do we ensure that the women who become pregnant are those who want to have and raise babies?
I totally agree with the post by “Pamela” above @9:45-
That wasn’t me…different “Pamela”.
I would love to be a foster parent, but I do have my own child to consider. Sometimes – emphasize- SOMETIMES over-zealous social workers/ adoption agents have been known to, let’s say- “fudge” the truth about children needing foster/adoptive homes JUST to get them homes.
We can’t take the chance that a child could have emotional/mental problems that could put OUR child in danger.
That’s why it would be better if we COULD foster/adopt a baby or very young toddler. It would make absolutely NO difference what race/color the child was.
Another “problem” with our situation: My husband is Canadian. He is a “Legal Permanent Resident”, not a Citizen. The possibility exists (we just don’t have the finances right now) that we may move back to Canada. We would not be allowed to take a foster child out of the country, and it would be very difficult/ expensive to do the paperwork to take a “newly” adopted child(from the foster care system) to another country.
A Christian adoption agency here says we are not eligible for a newborn/infant, because I am “too old” – OUCH!
So..that is the situation we’re in that I have eluded to on other threads, but hesitated to go into.
So..here we are, still VERY MUCH wanting another child (my husband wants another one and, of course, my daughter wants a sibling)…and there doesn’t seem much we can do about it..except to continue to pray that I can conceive and carry to TERM. I had a miscarriage in late May- that was my 7th. :(
I would love to be a foster parent, but I do have my own child to consider. Sometimes – emphasize- SOMETIMES over-zealous social workers/ adoption agents have been known to, let’s say- “fudge” the truth about children needing foster/adoptive homes JUST to get them homes.
Yes, that’s true. The social worker did not tell us that my son’s biological mother had used cocaine well into her pregnancy. That wouldn’t have prevented us from adopting him, but I wish we would have known.
We can’t take the chance that a child could have emotional/mental problems that could put OUR child in danger
Of course not! I think potential adoptive and foster parents have every right to know about the background of the children they are taking into their homes, and would not be mean or bitchy or anti-life for rejecting a child you think may put your own child in danger.
I am not saying that ALL children who are adopted have problems — look at Steve Jobs. And Dave Thomas, who is now deceased, was adopted. But quite a few do. I still love my son, but raising him has been quite an adventure, to say the least. Hopefully he is FINALLY turning his life around — better to be in rehab at 21 going on 22 then 51 going on 52!
A Christian adoption agency here says we are not eligible for a newborn/infant, because I am “too old” – OUCH!
I don’t know how old you are, and I am not trying to be nosy, but remember that with so few healthy infants available for adoption, birth mothers nowadays have quite a bit of say in who they want to parent their child, and I don’t see a problem with that. However, most are looking for a stable, married couple in their late twenties or early thirties. Singles, older couples, and gay parents are not high on the list.
I am sorry for your loss and I hope you are able to have the baby you so desire,
Phillymiss,
Thank you for your post. I’m not saying ALL adoptive children have problems, either…not by a LONG shot. I think adoption is a WONDERFUL thing!
For the record – I’m 47 but, honestly, no one believes me when I tell them that!
Good genes, I guess. ;)
In a better world, every child would belong to a loving family. In our imperfect world, some children have parents who, for whatever reason(s), did not properly care for them and the state intervened and removed them from their biological parent(s). Some of these children are adopted by other families after the state terminates the parental rights of the biological parents. Many do not. These are the children that I am told would be better off aborted. I am not told this by these children. One agency wrote about one youngster: “[H]e is kind, friendly, polite, cooperative and respectful… He enjoys making new friends and talking to anyone who shares similar interests. [He] likes to have fun and participate in fun activities such as go-kart racing, swimming and playing basketball. ..[He] would like to be a basketball player or police officer when he grows up. He helps out around the house by doing chores, such as washing dishes and keeping his room clean.”
He may not get his wish to be adopted, but he still wants and deserves to live, irrespective of the shortcomings of his biological parents and the adults in the United States.
Jennifer Fulwiler noted the incompatibility of the conditions for having sex and for having babies in our culture today.
She wrote that in our culture it is acceptable to have sex: if you are in a stable relationship, if you feel emotionally ready, if you’re free of STDs, if you have access to contraception.
It is acceptable to have a baby: if you can afford one, if you’ve finished your education, if you feel emotionally ready to parent, if your partner would make a good parent, if you’re ready for the lifestyle change required. “None of these factors were conditions that we encourage women to consider before engaging in sexual activity.”
Fulwiler concluded that “[a]s long as these two lists do not match, we will live in a culture where abortion is common and where women are at war with their own bodies.“
If our policymakers and trend setters want to tackle this incompatibility between our attitudes towards sex and towards child-conceiving, there will be fewer babies conceived and then either aborted or abandoned. If they want to continue to labor under the delusion that babies will never result from contracepted sexual activity, then babies will continue to die at alarming rates, women and men will continue to blame each other for the contraceptive failures and many children who survive the abortion gauntlet will suffer lonely childhoods.
These are the children that I am told would be better off aborted. I am not told this by these children.
I have been working in this field TEN YEARS and I have yet to hear one child say that they wish they would have been aborted.
@Pamela — You might want to try adopting through a foster care agency. They are more open to older parents. I know of at least one agency, Jewish Childrens and Family Services, that accepts parents in their late forties and even fifties. they stipulate, however, that you must have a friend or relative who is willing to take the child in the event that the adoptive parents are no longer able to care for him or her. They just don’t cater to Jewish families are in most parts of the country. Good luck to you!
phillymiss says:
December 7, 2012 at 5:55 pm
I would love to be a foster parent, but I do have my own child to consider. Sometimes – emphasize- SOMETIMES over-zealous social workers/ adoption agents have been known to, let’s say- “fudge” the truth about children needing foster/adoptive homes JUST to get them homes.
Yes, that’s true. The social worker did not tell us that my son’s biological mother had used cocaine well into her pregnancy. That wouldn’t have prevented us from adopting him, but I wish we would have known.
(Denise) The adoptive parents of Jeremy Strohmeyer said they would not have adopted him had they known that his birthmother was a schizophrenic and his biological father a chronic criminal.
Regardless of who raised him, it is unlikely he would have been prescribed Ritalin had it been known that his birthmother was schizophrenic as the medication is contraindicated for a person with that family history.
In all likelihood, Jeremy HAD to be adopted because his birthmother wasn’t able to raise him. It could only have helped had all biological facts been known so he wouldn’t have been prescribed a drug that he should not have been prescribed.
He is a murderer but NOT a serial murderer or a parricide. His troubles stem not only from adoption per se but the closed nature of adoption when he was adopted.
If there has to be adoption, I strongly support open adoption and as full knowledge as possible of the adoptee’s biological and medical background.
I am sick of the pro-choice crowd saying only white babies get adopted. If a couple wants a child they want a child. I would not hesitate to adopt a hispanic or African-American child, or any other ethnicity. A couple lives down the street from me (with VERY southern accents, I’m in Chicago) and they adopted a black baby and they are white. He is without a doubt the sweetest little kid ever and they were thrilled to have him. (I thought all those Southerners were racist!)
It’s just more ridiculous lies the pro-abortion side tells to try and justify their abhorrent position.
phillymiss says:
December 8, 2012 at 1:28 pm
These are the children that I am told would be better off aborted. I am not told this by these children.
I have been working in this field TEN YEARS and I have yet to hear one child say that they wish they would have been aborted.
(Denise) When he was interviewed in prison, convicted murderer Richard Eberling said he wished his mother had aborted him. Of course, he may have really meant he wished she had been able to care for him a lot better than was the case so he wouldn’t have ended up where he was. People sometimes say, “I wish I’d never been born.” They probably mean they wish they had been born into better circumstances.
I don’t remember who said it but someone commented saying that adopted children tend to have more behavior problems. I must have met the exceptions. I’ve known several adopted children and most of them have been better behaved than the kids I know who have been raised by their birth parents.
Kristen says:
December 12, 2012 at 12:45 am
I don’t remember who said it but someone commented saying that adopted children tend to have more behavior problems. I must have met the exceptions. I’ve known several adopted children and most of them have been better behaved than the kids I know who have been raised by their birth parents.
(Denise) I know adopted people. Two of them appear to be fine. Adoptions often work out well. However, as a group, adoptees are likely to have special problems. This isn’t hard to understand. By definition, they have a kind of “splintered identity.”
In addition, while father-child is largely cultural, mother-child is biologically based. A child in a two-parent home is likely to do just fine even if not biologically related to “Dad.” OTOH, a baby grows inside a human female and comes out of her body. When that connection is completely severed, problems are apt to result. Nature itself created that connection.