Stanek weekend question: How do pro-choicers celebrate Mother’s Day?
I’ll answer that: with tasteless and tactless audacity, from the top down.
As the Weekly Standard noted, “The White House is marking Mother’s Day… by celebrating free birth control provided by Obamacare“….
Thanks to the #ACA, 1 in 3 women under 65 gained access to preventive care—like birth control—with no out-of-pocket costs. #HappyMothersDay
— White House Archived (@ObamaWhiteHouse) May 10, 2013
To put a bow on his warped present, President Obama regifted the nation’s women at his Mother’s Day party yesterday with who else in the audience but representatives of Planned Parenthood, of course.
This year, abortion proponents are bawdily celebrating a day they make their living exploting women to avoid at all costs, even with their own lives. They have gone so far as to rename it “Mama’s Day,” creating a #mamasday hashtag on Twitter.
The pro-abortion group Strong Families has posted e-cards you can send, which can look pretty scary…
or present a perverted view of motherhood…
Sigh…
But yet there is still our voice of reason, for which we know all innately yearn, even if confused and deceived by aberrationists. Charmaine Yoest, President and CEO of Americans United for Life, and happily married mother of five, has written this word of comfort…
Yet, motherhood is not lost, even if the winds of popular opinion seek to redefine it. Motherhood is still based upon the sacrifices of a woman for her family, her strength to carry on despite challenging circumstances, and her ingenuity in redeeming beauty out of despair. Forty years of Roe has attempted to skew the notion of motherhood… and with that womanhood. The pain of legalized abortion, which has been neither safe nor rare, has wounded the feminine heart and her natural gift of motherhood.
In spite of this tragic cultural shift, the pro-life movement has spent the past 40 years healing women, protecting children, and restoring hearts touched by the pain of abortion. And while Mother’s Day may seem a day of grief to many who have lost a child, a sister or a mother, we know that motherhood stretches beyond a role or a biological reality: motherhood is a commitment to love. When we help the less fortunate, hold the hand of the fearful, embrace the heart of the lonely, we redeem motherhood in our communities. As we nurture those in need of affirmation and walk beside the brokenhearted, when tender compassion is the mark of our life’s journey, we heal the rift, the separation, the alienation of motherhood in our culture.
And as we move towards renewal of motherhood, we heal the pain of Roe, and in turn transform our culture into one that accepts the dignity, the worth, the value of all persons. And we will continue our work until all are welcomed in life and protected in law.
Your thoughts on pro-abort attempts to hijack all that Mother’s Day means?
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Cartoon looks terrifyingly like Michelle O obviously NOT happy about the Mama part!
They probably celebrate it by calling their mothers, or maybe taking them out to lunch.
“…and in turn transform our culture into one that accepts the dignity, the worth, the value of all persons.”
Which is accomplished by calling a same-sex motherhood “perverted.” Yes.
Even perverted people have worth, BV. Sorry if no one ever told you this.
Let me tell you now: Even though you are perverted, BV, you still have worth.
Happy Mother’s Day.
With a sacrifice to Moloch and a glass of human blood.
Perverted is such an ugly word — a much better word is disordered. If a person is living in accord with human nature, this is natural. If one is behaving outside of the natural order, this is disordered.
However if a person intentionally chooses to indulge a disordered desire or lifestyle, then we can say that such a choice is perverted. We normally like to reserve this word for the self-indulgent sexual disorders, but it is just as true to say that a drunkard suffers from a perverted desire for alcohol.
Same-sex attraction is contrary to human nature. It is not part of the natural order for human behavior. It is a disordered desire, like desiring too much alcohol is disordered.
joan says:
May 11, 2013 at 3:30 pm
With a sacrifice to Moloch and a glass of human blood.
Same as every day…..
I’ll compromise on pervertidly disordered.
Sick and demented. Pretty much what I’ve come to expect from this administration.
“They probably celebrate it by calling their mothers, or maybe taking them out to lunch.”
Ex-RINO, do you know if Planned Parenthood is giving away any free Mother’s Day abortions?
I wonder if Gwenneth Paltrow and Blythe Danner will be out pimping abortion on mothers day like they did one year. Psychos!
I take my mother and grandmother to brunch after church along with several other extended family members. Afterwards, we go back to somebody’s house where my grandmother will tell embarrassing stories about my mom and uncle. Then I usually give my mom and grandmother a mother’s day gift. It all gets pretty crazy if we decide to play trivial pursuit. I won last year. Then we eat dessert at home. Isn’t it scandalous? <sacrcasm>
Hi Denise Noe,
Good point. Reproduction does not in itself qualify one for motherhood or confer any kind of sainthood on someone. There are definitely women who do not have the ability to bond with or love a child. Also, over the course of human history, children were not always produced to be loved and cared for. Mothers in warrior societies like the Spartans turned their children over to the state at a very early age for brutal military training, or they would be produced because heirs were needed to carry on a dynasty or royal family. Parents sold children into slavery. Also, people produce or adopt children to satisfy their own emotional needs, like some people collect animals.
I have nothing against motherhood, obviously since I am one myself. I just live in the real world.
Tenn, maybe this year, you could bring up the topic of abortion to your church leaders and the group you celebrate Mother’s Day with after church. (What denomination are you?)
Ask them when the cutoff line, if any, there should be for abortion.
Ask them what they think of sex-selection abortion.
Ask them how many children they have adopted.
Ask your mom why she didn’t abort you.
Ask them how men like Gosnell get away with having such filthy clinics for so long.
Ask them if they would be okay with students wearing t-shirts to school with pics of aborted children on them.
I bet you don’t ask them any of these questions. If you don’t, why don’t you?
“Even perverted people have worth, BV. Sorry if no one ever told you this. Let me tell you now: Even though you are perverted, BV, you still have worth.”
Wow, what a great solace your religion must be. Happy Mother’s Day!
Bv i hope one day you face the fact that you murdered your baby. IDK why but you are indeed the mother of a dead baby. So angry and defensive. Talk to Carla and get some healing. God will forgive you. Otherwise you will keep carrying your guilt.
My thoughts … just keep praying. God is at work. Keep praying. Keep being salt and light. Keep lovingly sharing the truth. Darkness cannot over come the light. The light will prevail! Let God arise!
I asked some time ago whether heroes could be named. For many PL a list was easy, but for PC even one name was difficult.
I think a person’s experience of hero/heroism (and a loving authority figure) is Mom. She may be irreplaceable here! Could the need for-a-dead baby via abortion, be that these moms are afraid to be heroines?
” I think a person’s experience of hero/heroism (and a loving authority figure) is Mom. She may be irreplaceable here! Could the need for-a-dead baby via abortion, be that these moms are afraid to be heroines?”
Unfortunately many people have mothers who are nowhere near heroic, doesn’t make them irreparably damaged or unable to choose different role models for themselves. I really wish people would stop saying things like this.
If the “Gay Gene” is discovered and those children are targeted for extermination – only then will people hear any cries from the Left.
Steve – I actually agree with you, and made that point a while back – if we could determine sexual orientation, that would lead to a pretty interesting argument regarding abortion.
Interestingly, animals do not practice homosexuality…maybe planned parenthood could start a “re-education” program in all SPCA’s and try to pervert animals as well.
Jesus said in Luke 17:29-30, ‘As it was in the days of Lot, even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
better dust off those Bibles and read what He has to say about the future.
Ummm, yes they do.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals
I don’t get why people simply make up things, that are demonstrably false, to support a point. If it’s easily disprovable it just makes your whole argument look dumb.
Although I thought of your experience, Jack, I thought it a valid comment. I very much believe that a very young developing human seeks out role models. THE ‘HERO-MODEL’ IS AN ARCHTYPE AGAINST WHICH ALL OTHER (Including God) are perceived. It isn’t so much that Mom was a hero, its that she allowed me the space/freedom to do this. In retrospect it was naive to do so, but am very happy she indulged this childhood fantasy.
It allowed me the room to grow and to be self appreciative. I began to believe in me and ‘in’ others too.
Maybe I should point-out that I said ‘Mom” not ‘my mother’. One is formal and distant the other familial and intimate. We celebrate ‘Mother’s Day’, but that is a misnomer for a child who is really celebrating Mom’s Day. …. her birthday was May 13th and passed some 25 years ago. I miss my hero very much!
“Same-sex attraction is contrary to human nature. It is not part of the natural order for human behavior.” – what a load of old bunkum! And Ex-GOP is right, Angela is quite wrong, homosexuality does occur in many species.
Given just how difficult it has been for gay people until recent times do you seriously think someone whould choose to be gay?
Tell me Del, when did you choose to be straight?
“If the “Gay Gene” is discovered and those children are targeted for extermination” – that’s interesting to contemplate. I think that most pro-choice people probably wouldn’t abort because the “gay gene” was discovered during testing. They may have in earlier decades because of the general torment of gays. More likely anti-choicers would change their stance – only momentarily mind you – so they could abort, unless they thought ‘pray away the gay’ would do the trick.
Awesome Reality – I’ve always wanted to use that line of questioning, but haven’t had a good opportunity yet. I’ve always pictured it with a 50 something year old, right wing male:
Him: I think being gay, yeah (scratch, scratch) – I think it’s, umm, just a choice
Me: Can you tell me about your struggles with the choice? Did you often think of choosing to be gay, and then decided in the end, you wanted to be straight?
Him: (scratch, grunt), well, I mean, I’ve been straight all my life! I’ve never even thought of being with a dude
@ Reality: tell me when did hitler chose to become a murderer? Honestly that argument “tell me when u chose to be straight” is not very valid because 1. They already proved it is not a genetically thing 2. If it was genetic then it really just adds to those against it defense because if it is genetic that you are born gay then gay people should not have children in vitro or surrogate! Because after all genetically they are more likely to produce a gay child and before you know it they’re are no straight people left to produce children the natural way?! 3. Being gay is a choice just like me cussing is a choice just like a rapist makes a choice to rape! Everyone is born straight their environment, society, and fleshly lust impacts their decision to become gay! Besides how did this article go off on being gay?!?!!! I believe this was about abortion! Which even if those kids would have chosen to be gay they still deserve to be born! America has believed Planned Parenthoods lies about it bring a woman’s body and her choice! No it’s not a woman’s body it is a child a woman simply is the “host” for the child! If you will. That child has a unique DNA from conception making it a separate person! I am sickened when I research the truth and women need to be educated! Stop the lies from polluting their decisions! I use to think abortion was ok in cases of incest, rape, and moms life but then think this: does that child have to pay the death penalty for the rapist, perverts crime? And the cases of moms life are very very small and 98% of the time even then the mom lives!
Angie – question – do you have any gay friends?
Planned Parenthood has HALF A MILLION volunteers and employees in China assisting the regime with the forced birth control and abortion policy. They have a lot of gall then pretending that there is the least little thing about them that should be celebrated on Mothers Day.
“1. They already proved it is not a genetically thing”
This is not true.
“2. If it was genetic then it really just adds to those against it defense because if it is genetic that you are born gay then gay people should not have children in vitro or surrogate! Because after all genetically they are more likely to produce a gay child and before you know it they’re are no straight people left to produce children the natural way?!”
You don’t understand genetics. At all. Why do you think genetic diseases still exist, even those that kill the person with the disease before they reach reproduction age? There are such a thing as recessive genes that aren’t expressed in every single person that carries them. To be clear I’m not saying that being gay is definitely genetic, though there is some support for the idea along with other biological factors. But it does take some incredible misunderstanding of genetics to say something like this.
“3. Being gay is a choice just like me cussing is a choice just like a rapist makes a choice to rape! Everyone is born straight their environment, society, and fleshly lust impacts their decision to become gay!”
No, expressing homosexual behavior is a choice. Being “gay”, as in being attracted to someone of the same gender, isn’t a choice any more than you choose to be straight. If someone for religious reasons or otherwise chooses not to express their gay tendencies, that’s on them and just fine, but it doesn’t mean that they don’t exist.
“They already proved it is not a genetically thing” – who? When?
“If it was genetic then it really just adds to those against it defense because if it is genetic that you are born gay then gay people should not have children in vitro or surrogate! Because after all genetically they are more likely to produce a gay child and before you know it they’re are no straight people left to produce children the natural way?!” – how extraordinarily inaccurate.
“Being gay is a choice just like me cussing is a choice just like a rapist makes a choice to rape! Everyone is born straight their environment, society, and fleshly lust impacts their decision to become gay” – yet more!
You really need to do some scientific research Angie.
Thank you Ex-GOP. It amazes me that people will still expound such sheer garbage about homosexuality.
How can you be a mother/mama if you kill/abort your children. No children=not a mother. Obama is so freakin’ smart, I just don’t get it (inserted sarcasm).
her birthday was May 13th and passed some 25 years ago
I will be thinking of you on your hero’s birthday tomorrow, John. May 13th is also my dad’s birthday.
How do pro-choicers celebrate mother’s day? The same way as everyone else of course.
I sent my mom a nice card in which I wrote a poem, I rang her to tell her I love her. And I ate a box of chocolates on her behalf (which I’ll replace when she comes to visit me in a few months). If I wasn’t so poor I’d have sent her flowers too.
thanks Prax!
It is too bad that Ex-GOP and Reality find Angie’s biochem flawed and make blunders of their own. DNA is not a molecule that is impervious to change/alterations once formed. I think we are all familiar with the use of X-rays and that they can change DNA structure. In fact non-ionizing radio waves (like cell phone radiation) can cause a very serious form of cancer, where the DNA molecule is snipped into finer fragments.
Most folks do not realize that DNA itselfis modified/changed from the period of beginning (at concepton)right through ALL 9 months before birth by nutrient deficiencies like zinc, vitamin B6 and folate. So a test for a gay-gene may in fact be a test for an alteration that has already occurred. [it is more-than-likely such a change is in m-DNA of the cell’s mitochondria.]
And that proves that homosexuality is a choice how?
What you say brings no accuracy to what Angie claimed.
Can someone who thinks that people choose to be attracted to the same sex please explain to me why anyone would? I don’t get why you think some guy would randomly be like “you know what’s hot? Other guys!”. Could you choose to be attracted to someone of the same sex (assuming you consider yourself straight and only attracted to the opposite sex)? You realize a lot of LGBT people struggle a lot and have a lot of unhappiness regarding their sexuality, as in they want their attractions to go away, but they can’t make them go away? Why do you think someone would choose that?
If you think being gay is a sin, then whatever, but pretending that people aren’t *really* attracted to the same sex, that they choose those attractions, is just crazy to me.
How do pro-choicers celebrate mother’s day? The same way as everyone else of course. I sent my mom a nice card in which I wrote a poem, I rang her to tell her I love her. And I ate a box of chocolates on her behalf (which I’ll replace when she comes to visit me in a few months). If I wasn’t so poor I’d have sent her flowers too.
Maybe you should all thank your mothers for NOT choosing abortion – that is, assuming you would have supported that choice for her if it precluded your own birth… ?
Maybe you should all thank your mothers for NOT choosing abortion – that is, assuming you would have supported that choice for her if it precluded your own birth… ?
I don’t HAVE to thank my mom for not killing me. She never would have, even if it would’ve put her life in danger. My youngest brother is evidence of that.
I never understood Pro-Choicers needing to worship at the alter of the one who might’ve killed them. I called my mom and wished her a Happy Mother’s Day, and my kids wished me a Happy Mother’s Day, but nobody felt the obligation to thank anyone for not killing them. Sad that some people might?
It’s just like those sinful left-handers Jack, practising the devil’s work.
Why would anyone choose to be so sinister as to be left-handed? Some people :-(
So glad we are using animal behaviour to justify our actions. That means as soon as it is accepted we can begin to cannibalize and kill our off spring! Oh wait, we already kill our offspring? Oh abortion, thats right.. To use non instinctual animal behaviour to rationalize ours is poor debating at best
There is no “homosexual instinct” in animals,
It is poor science to “read” human motivations and sentiments into animal behavior, and
Irrational animal behavior is not a yardstick to determine what is morally acceptable behavior for rational man.
Well said Marcus! @ x-GOP yes I have gay friends yes I love them just as much as my straight friends! Our culture has believed 2 lies on this 1. That if I disagree with someone’s lifestyle I hate or fear them, 2. That to love someone means I agree with everything they say,do,believe. Both are irrational! I don’t have to compromise my convictions to be compassionate! As for the study! Well http://www.trueorigin.org/gaygene01.asp there is just one article! Where is your proof? You don’t have any in fact if the “gay” community did they would be telling everyone but instead they just say it without backing! Back to the truth of this Article again! It is about abortion not gay! And you know what if my child had this imaginary gay gene you speak of I still wouldn’t abort because that child should still have the same civil rights that’s everyone else has the pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness as long as it doesn’t infringe on others civil rights! Stop hating the ones who say gay is wrong because it honestly is a form of reverse discrimination! You can tell me I’m wrong for a multiple of things but it doesn’t make u discriminatory! I am tired of that attitude maybe I should complain that everyone is attacking my traditional marriage of dating,engagement, marriage, then kids, then remaining together despite the world around me and raising my kids with their father and loving him? When in today’s age those who do the opposite are honored?!? Really it ticks me off! Not that those things happen and God bless those who stand in the gap but let’s stop putting down those who have values and morals because deep down you are afraid they make you look bad?!
When I was pro-choice, I celebrated Mother’s Day by lovin’ up my little ones and usually I would work on their scrapbooks on that day. How I could be posting their ultrasound pics in their scrapbooks and still be pro-choice…is anyone’s guess. I truly did not think of the child in the womb at all when I was pro-choice. Much to my eternal shame. Lord, have mercy.
Lrning,
The Lord does have mercy and is quick to forgive those who truly repent of their sin and surrender their Lives to Him! The fact that you are sorry is a good sign He has forgiven you, and that you are now His!
As for all of this back and forth, there is a solution! You who say homosexuals are born that way -I respectfully disagree with that theory, but for the sake of argument, say you were right, the only thing they need or any one apart from Christ needs is to be “born again”. I am attracted to money and things, and I fight the misuse of the love of money and worldly things every day.
All your science and all your rationalization for sin will not help you on the Day that Jesus returns for those who are His. We can’t live for ourselves in this life, ignore His Word, and expect to live in the next…eternal life with Christ is only promised to those who repent (turn around and go the other way, away from their sin) and do their best to follow His teachings and live the rest of their lives for Him. We all will live forever…it’s just a matter of where we will live and with whom.
Marcus,
I too appreciate what you said in your last post. You are very wise! Thank you for making clearer what I was trying to say.
trueorigin.org = disproving the myth of evolution. That’s their mission statement. Literally no rational person will take that source seriously, Angie, so try again.
Nobody said anything rude to you by arguing against your assertions, you’re basically just trying to shut down dissent by accusing people of “hating” you because they have a different opinion. Which is, ironically, exactly what “traditional” marriage supporters accuse the gay community of.
“As for all of this back and forth, there is a solution! You who say homosexuals are born that way -I respectfully disagree with that theory, but for the sake of argument, say you were right, the only thing they need or any one apart from Christ needs is to be “born again”. I am attracted to money and things, and I fight the misuse of the love of money and worldly things every day.”
Then stop pretending that people choose to have sexual attractions to the same gender (if you think they do). Okay you don’t believe in promiscuity, right? And it’s perfectly possible to prevent yourself from being promiscuous. But that doesn’t mean that a guy sees an attractive lady and magically doesn’t find her attractive, just because he chooses not to indulge in his attraction. I don’t know what you people think, that gay people sit around and willfully decide to have attractions to the same gender for funsies? It’s irrational and I feel like you’re all punking me or something.
“So glad we are using animal behaviour to justify our actions.” – I’ll stop eating food and sleeping immediately! Wouldn’t want anyone to think I was starting to act like an animal or anything.
“There is no “homosexual instinct” in animals,” – oh well, there you go then. Glad you know better than world renowned scientists who say otherwise.
“It is poor science to “read” human motivations and sentiments into animal behavior” – possibly it is. That’s got nothing to do with homosexuality in humans or animals though.
“Irrational animal behavior is not a yardstick to determine what is morally acceptable behavior for rational man.” – homosexuality in animals isn’t ‘irrational’ behavior. Same with humans.
Thanks for the link to the study Angie, I needed a good laugh. It contains more doctrine than science. It attempts to critique a study which is more than 20 years old and it draws conclusions which are the opposite of any valid, unbiased scientific study conducted in recent years. You know, the ones conducted by scientists, not creationists.
“Therefore, if an alleged “gay gene” did exist, the homosexual population eventually would disappear altogether.” – BWAWAHHH! Yeah, homosexuality was ‘bred out’ a few hundred thousand years ago. How many red heads have two redheaded parents? How many only have one? How many have none? Redheadedness must be an illusion!
“evidence exists which documents that homosexuals can change their sexual orientation” – no. documents exist which claim that homosexuals can change their sexual orientation. Those who claim to have ‘prayed away the gay’ are suppressing their sexuality or denying it.
http://www.salon.com/2013/04/25/conversion_therapy_advocate_issues_formal_apology_renounces_ex_gay_past/
Angie – you said about 10 refutes to things nobody had even said.
I only asked, because I was wondering if you’ve talked to them about their “choice” – if they’ve indicated that they were straight, but one day said “I’m going to be gay”.
When did you decide to be straight Angie? Is it something you struggled with a lot?
Perhaps Angie is swimming in a certain river Ex-GOP?
Could it be a case of “The lady dost protest too much”?
Maybe Reality.
Maybe it’s just me – I’ve been straight from the get-go – I’ve never struggled with this “choice” – but maybe I’m just the exception. I’m interested to hear from Angie, or others on this thread that have struggled with same sex attraction and then ultimately decided to be straight. Is it something that they deal with every day? Again, I’ve never struggled with it – I never had a “choice” to make.
Some of them seem to confuse choosing to have a gay relationship with choosing the attractions. Anyone can choose to remain celibate and single, gay or straight, but no one can choose not to be attracted to something. It boggles my mind, do they think that they can magically become gay or asexual somehow, just randomly one day decide to completely change what they are attracted to? Makes no sense.
Ex-RINO,
http://www.salon.com/2012/03/01/san_francisco_turned_me_straight/
I’m with you Ex-GOP, never had any feelings of attraction to other men.
I’ve had close gay friends for over 30 years. One has even expressed his attraction to me from the start. It’s never caused any problems.
I hug and sometimes kiss my male friends, both gay and straight. Nothing sexual about it.
Homophobia is broadly defined as the fear or hatred of homosexuality.
I think the fear part of that manifests a little more than is generally discussed.
That’s a really entertaining piece truthseeker.
You do realise the nature of Anna’s writing don’t you?
You do realise she’s still a lesbian don’t you?
No Reality. She slept with some dudes, that means that she never liked women and doesn’t now (even though she says the exact opposite).
Oh, then I guess she must have the homosexual and the heterosexual genes.
Do you not understand the difference between orientation and behavior, truth?
You appear to have ignored “You do realise the nature of Anna’s writing don’t you?” truthseeker.
Jack,
“Do you not understand the difference between orientation and behavior, truth?”
Maybe not the same ‘understanding’ that you have Jack. If a guy has sex with a guy I call him a homosexual. If a guy has ‘orientation’ to have sex with a guy and doesn’t have sex with a guy then I don’t call him homosexual.
Then you are confusing behavior with orientation.
And you believe that orientation is either heterosexual or homosexual and cannot be changed?
“And you believe that orientation is either heterosexual or homosexual and cannot be changed?”
No, there are bisexuals and asexuals as well. I don’t believe you can change what you are attracted to. Behavior is a separate thing and rather complicated.
I would have thought that even you truthseeker, would be aware that a large number of gay people deny or suppress their intrinsic sexual orientation for various periods of time and choose to live an apparently heterosexual life.
This usually occurs due to the pressures of society, family and/or religion.
Even those who claim to be cured by ‘pray away the gay’ programs can usually be found lurking in a closet somewwhere or emerging once their families are grown.
A homosexual pretending to be heterosexual is still a homosexual. The only reason you wouldn’t call them homosexual is because you don’t know.
Feelings are not really measurable like physical actions. I judge people based on actions. Someone could say that pro-choice people are oriented towards being baby killers; but I don’t consider them to be a baby killers unless they actually get a job as an abortionist and kill babies.
Dr. Charles Socarides of the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH) observes:
Reality, its not about ANGIE’S myopic view, or yours, or Jack’s, or even mine. We are all living under an illusion here and it has to do with choosing. Are we free beings or not? YOU tell me, please.
Our DNA not only determines who we are (fingerprinting) but also determines our sexual attraction/orientation and perhaps (if the attraction is very strong) the extent of our activity. So is a rapist free to forego his urges, is a celebate for real or is he/her a bekon of human-freedom by saying ‘NO’?
Our DNA is indeed fixed (but how much of it is DETERMINED depends on what genes are expressed … for, orientation; longevity and a hole host of things to make our decisions free or DNA-determined. Is a teen really choosing or has she any choice at all. If DNA is pliable from conception to birth, then a ‘gay-gene that is switched ‘open’ may need a trigger some years later in life to activate …. who knows? Does having such a gene label you a homosexual … or as having cancer?
Then there is the problem of Gosnell. Was he ‘free’ to kill, or did he have an ‘orientation’, predetermined by an unusual turned-on gene? When was this gene turned-on? Is he obliged to follow these ‘natural’ tendencies?
Gosnell is just pure evil. I would go so far as to say he was demonically possessed. You can laugh at me and say whatever you want – I don’t care. satan comes to kill, steal and destroy. If that isn’t what that man did, I don’t know what is!
NARTH? Seriously? You cite that as scientific?
“NARTH’s leaders disagree with the global scientific consensus, the holding of the world’s major mental health organizations, and scientific research into the topic which show that homosexuality is not a disorder.”
“In man, heterosexual object choice is neither innate nor instinctual; neither is homosexual object choice or any other perverse behavior–all are learned. The choice of sexual object is not predetermined by chromosomal tagging or hypothalamic functioning.” – Charles W. Socarides
So when did you ‘learn’ to be straight? When did you make that ‘choice’? Was it difficult for you?
“Reality, you want to name the world renowned scientists that you are sourcing?” – I might feel so inclined if you had provided anything from a reputable scientist. Is “global scientific consensus, the holding of the world’s major mental health organizations, and scientific research” not enough for you?
“Our DNA not only determines who we are (fingerprinting) but also determines our sexual attraction/orientation and perhaps (if the attraction is very strong) the extent of our activity.” – not quite what you were saying earlier but still, ok.
“So is a rapist free to forego his urges, is a celebate for real or is he/her a bekon of human-freedom by saying ‘NO’?” – do you think that rape is ‘wrong’? I do. The overwhelming majority seem to think so. Why is that? Could it be because rape harms another, it is an act against the will of a victim? Some people choose to be celibate, that’s their choice. It doesn’t harm anyone (ignoring the psychological impacts which can sometimes be less than positive and may indeed induce aberrent behaviors). Since homosexuality isn’t inherently ‘wrong’ and doesn’t harm others there is no need for people to choose not to express their sexuality unless they wish to do so.
No I was never gay then turned straight or other way around. I have fantasies as most other people but am repulsed to think of ever following thru! I mean haven’t u ever truly thought of hurting someone really bad but not done it? Ok yes I do know quite a few “gay” turned straight turned back to gay and that was precisely my point!
… Fantasies?
Gay turned straight then back gay again is usually someone who bows to social pressure to try and act straight but can’t do it.
Jack and Reality,
Pro-choice people are oriented towards killing babies. Does that make them baby killers even if they don’t act on their pro-choice feelings?
” Pro-choice people are oriented towards killing babies. Does that make them baby killers even if they don’t act on their pro-choice feelings?”
False analogy, like a lot. Attraction is a biological process, not a political or moral idea like being pro-choice.
If say you knew some guy, you totally thought he was completely straight and he’s been married, but he is attracted to guys as well as women he’d probably be bisexual, even if he never acts on it. Someone who is completely celibate but attracted to the same sex exclusively is gay. The attraction is the orientation, the behavior is how/if people choose to express their orientation and what aspects of it.
Look, it’s really not that hard to understand, and you don’t even have to say that it’s right and moral.
Maybe it would help clarify things if you could tell me a few things other than ‘attraction’ that you see as examples of orientation.
It doesn’t have to be anything other than attraction. Does that make you uncomfortable for some reason, ts? XD
X, I don’t think people who feel impulses towards same sex interaction but who do not engage in homosexual sex to be homosexual; I would call them celibate. I used the example that pro-choice people are oriented towards killing babies but I don’t actually consider them to be baby killers unless they actually go through with it. Same thing with somebody who has rape impulses. You could say that they are oriented towards rape but I would not call them a rapist if they do not rape people.
There’s nothing offensive about comparing being gay to being a baby killer or rapist. No siree.
A left handed person is still intrinsically a left-handed person even after they’ve been beaten into using their right hand as their prime hand.
A red-headed person is still red-headed even if they dye their hair blonde.
Someone who feels the urge to rape but doesn’t might be called a potential rapist.
Someone who is pro-choice but never terminates a fetus is not an abortionist.
People don’t possess the potential to be homosexual, red haired or left handed. They are or they aren’t.
A potential rapist possesses the potential to be a rapist, they aren’t a rapist.
Isn’t it 2013? Why are these kind of conversations still even taking place? What a joke.
Truthseeker, does it make you feel guilty at all that there could be someone who is gay or bisexual reading this thread, and see you compare them to a rapist simply for having attractions they can’t help or relationships you don’t approve of? Do you think that’s compassionate at all?
No Jack,
I would expect no less then for them to come on this thread and speak their mind. if they can explain your ‘orientation’ idea being applied to them as a special class of people then I am all ears. I mean no offense; only to speak the truth as I see it. Does this help. You know I am Catholic and I adore the priesthood right. Well priests are not heterosexual; they are not sexual at all, so I call them celibate. Do you think I mean to offend priests too?
Ex-RINO,
Now that we know the IRS under the Obama administration has admitted to targeting conservative people. Does that make you AT ALL uneasy that Obamacare gave the IRS the authority to target people for not complying with Obamacare mandates?
Heterosexual priests are still heterosexual, as in they are still attracted to women. Gay priests are gay, as in still attracted to men. I’m sure there are a few bisexual and asexual priests as well.
I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t compare a priest to a rapist. It’s always gays you guys insist as demonizing as much as possible. Extremely unfair to compare someone who causes harm like a rapist to someone being born attracted to the same gender. Come on man. You never know who’s gay when you’re saying this stuff, you should care about hurting people. Like, half your religion is supposed to be about showing compassion. That’s not compassionate.
“Well priests are not heterosexual; they are not sexual at all,” – what, so priests never get erections? Never have thoughts or dreams of a sexual nature?
They may practice celibacy, but they are still intrinsically heterosexual or homosexual.
Before you mindless liberal zombies jump all over what I posted; let me rephrase this:
When I stated “You know I am Catholic and I adore the priesthood right. Well priests are not heterosexual; they are not sexual at all, so I call them celibate” I should have said “You know I am Catholic and I adore the priesthood right. Well priests are not heterosexual; they are not sexually active at all, so I call them celibate.
Ex-GOP, thanks for being one of the Christians who doesn’t say stuff like that. It’s quite appreciated.
Reality, if want to classify people by whether or not they get erections I guess that is your perogative. But that seems kind of crazy to me…..
“Ex-GOP, thanks for being one of the Christians who doesn’t say stuff like that. It’s quite appreciated”
Spoken from one liberal lover to another. But according to Christianity homosexuality is a sin and an aberration. Maybe Ex-RINO would like to say something different???
Maybe “Ex-RINO” isn’t enough of a prideful, rude person to insist on comparing those he may not agree with to rapists, deny they have inborn attractions, accuse them of trying to ruin marriage, etc etc etc. Just a wild guess.
Mr Rogers was a Christian, somehow I can’t see him telling everyone else they were special the way they are… except for you gays. You’re perverted and similar to rapists for the way you were born.
Jack,
Quit the bleeding heart diatribe already. Did you not read my post at 9:38?
“Well priests are not heterosexual; they are not sexually active at all, so I call them celibate” – you’re still wrong. You are describing a behavior.
Celibacy is a behavioral choice. Being heterosexual isn’t.
If I don’t have sex for three months, or six months, or even three years, does that mean I am no longer a heterosexual?
Is a redhead who shaves their head no longer a redhead?
Jack –
The Christians to watch out for are the ones who spend their days running around with pride, lying, slandering,greed, belittling, shaming, and being unloving to everyone possible…yes jumping all over the sins of others while never admitting their own faults.
Stay away from those people Jack…modern day pharisees.
I seriously gotta stop commenting on threads on this blog about homosexuality, just ends up making me sick to my stomach.
I saw your 9:38 post truth, doesn’t change what I said. If we had been talking about celibate priests there is zero way you would compare them to rapists or baby killers. It’s only gays that get demonized like that by certain of you folk.
” The Christians to watch out for are the ones who spend their days running around with pride, lying, slandering,greed, belittling, shaming, and being unloving to everyone possible…yes jumping all over the sins of others while never admitting their own faults. ”
Yeah, when I was younger they used to make me feel terrible, but now I just find them silly. It’s like they missed half the New Testament or something.
Ex-RINO,
You speak to Jack in sympathy and it hides your underlying (pun intended) falsehood. Yes Christians are sympathetic. But a Christian who lets another live in sin and condones is not being Christian. And when they use sympathy to lead others to sin in the name of Christianity like you do the deception is even more insidious.
Jack, you may disagree with me. You may not understand me. At least I am speaking openly and honestly about the Christian faith as presented in the Bible. My Jesus is the Jesus of the Bible. Notice how Ex-RINO will not come out openly and say to you that homosexuality is not a sin? What you admire in Ex-RINO is that he is so willing to let people live as they choose that he will not even bring himself to say that homosexuality is a sin. Or if he does; then he will go into a spiel about all the other sins in the world (abortion etc.) to try and justify the sin of homosexuality. But in order to do this he basically would have to make it meaningless to sin. Which appeals to you because if sin is meaningless; then why would anybody like me speak out about it. Well I am here. And I am speaking out about it. And if it offends you then so be it. As a Christian it is our duty to speak the truth about the Gospel.
Who am I letting live in sin? What gay person on this thread has asked me to judge them? Who is looking for spiritual guidance? Why is my judgement on anybody else needed? And if so, why is it limited to just sexual sins? You’ve flat out lied to me, belittled and shamed others, showed enormous amounts of pride – should I call out somebody for being gay, and not for those sorts of things?
I don’t worry a ton about it quite frankly – I’m not gay, and I don’t feel the need to search out sexual sin and condemn and judge people. If they ask me directly, I’ll talk to that person, directly.
I’ll also note though that the jury is still out, at least in my opinion, in regards to homosexuality and the Bible. There are very limited verses (far fewer, for instance, than pro-slavery verses, and we’ve certainly worked our way out of that mess theologically), and there’s much to be learned from historical context. For instance, the work ‘homosexual’ is a fairly new creation – it didn’t exist as such in Biblical times, so understanding the source of the word used is important. Also, is the historical reality of temple prostititues – we must sort out and understand when verses are making reference to that practice, and to other sexual practices in general.
Again though, my job here on earth isn’t to run around shaming and condemning people – so it isn’t something I dive in and study in depth. My experience has always been (in my own life, and talking to others, both gay and straight) that sexuality isn’t a choice. I’ve always been straight and never struggled with if I’m gay or straight. I stated earlier that this might just be me – if you think it is a choice, and something you struggle with, then that would shape your view of it all.
One last thing (since I’m on a roll) – in regards to your previous remark on targeting conservative groups, it seems like those who were problems are being cleared out. I personally think the bigger issue is a political and tax system that allows for hundreds and thousands of these lobbying type groups to be tax-exempt. What a joke.
“It’s only gays that get demonized like that by certain of you folk.” ” It’s like they missed half the New Testament or something.”
Open your mind for just one minute Jack and listen to what I am saying. I am not demonizing gays. According to Biblical Christian teaching homosexual behaviour is a sin. According to Biblical Christian teaching being celibate is a holy life. Be honest with yourself…there is no biblical teaching in any half of the New Testament that teaches homosexual behavior as being anything other than a sin.
Let me try and put it words according to your view and maybe it will help you understand…a person oriented to homosexuality who lives a celibate life is leading a holy life.
“At least I am speaking openly and honestly about the Christian faith as presented in the Bible. My Jesus is the Jesus of the Bible. Notice how Ex-RINO will not come out openly and say to you that homosexuality is not a sin? What you admire in Ex-RINO is that he is so willing to let people live as they choose that he will not even bring himself to say that homosexuality is a sin. ”
Where in the Bible does Jesus compare people who are homosexual to rapists? Where in the Bible does Jesus say that people who are homosexual should be shamed for being how they are born or people should be cruel to them? Please answer this.
I don’t get you, I don’t know what you think, but I do read the Bible and will continue to do so. And dude I’m not finding the stuff you guys say, and I’m not seeing the justification for how you treat people. I get that you see some things are sin, and I can see that stuff very clearly in the Bible. But I’m not finding in the New Testament justification for how you people talk about people who commit those sins, especially not the way you all talk about gay people and others who commit sexual sins.
Like I said on another thread, if I had to guess what God hates most, it would by lying and lack of love and charity. That’s based on my readings of the Bible. And if you can look at your comments and not see where you are lacking love and charity, then I guess I can’t help you.
But no, go on about gay people and completely ignore your own sins. In fact, be proud of your own sins! I’m sure your God will love that.
” Open your mind for just one minute Jack and listen to what I am saying. I am not demonizing gays. According to Biblical Christian teaching homosexual behaviour is a sin. According to Biblical Christian teaching being celibate is a holy life. Be honest with yourself…there is no biblical teaching in any half of the New Testament that teaches homosexual behavior as being anything other than a sin. ”
I have never said, and probably will never say, that anyone has to believe homosexuality is moral or not a sin. That’s your prerogative. But if you think that they way you all talk about and treat those who commit this sin is something Jesus would do, I can’t see that at all.
And I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, I don’t care how much you dislike homosexual behavior, it’s just completely cruel to blame people for having the attractions. It’s pretty clearly something that’s inborn or instilled very early on. You can’t compare people having attractions towards another adult of whatever gender to having the urge to rape, or kill babies, or whatever. It’s cruel. No one asks to be attracted to the same gender. Can you imagine how bad it feels to know something that you can’t help makes you disgusting to a good portion of the population? Good grief.
“According to Biblical Christian teaching homosexual behaviour is a sin.” – that’s fine for those who give credance to Biblical Christian teaching. If that’s what you adhere to that’s fine. It would appear that you were born heterosexual, therefore you aren’t affeared of sinning.
Society, politics and law are not predicated on biblical christian teaching, that would be a theocracy.
Therefore, whilst you are free to consider homosexuals sinners, you are not entitled to take any course of action to inflict your personal beliefs on them; socially, politically or legally.
“Where in the Bible does Jesus compare people who are homosexual to rapists? Where in the Bible does Jesus say that people who are homosexual should be shamed for being how they are born or people should be cruel to them? Please answer this.”
Jack, what would be cruel is to allow them to live in sin and lose their heavenly inheritance. See 1 Cor 6:9
“And if you can look at your comments and not see where you are lacking love and charity, then I guess I can’t help you.”
Jack, if you believed in heaven and hell then you show no love by not admonishing a “friend” for behavior that leads them away from the Kingdom of God. And a man engaging in sex with another man is clearly a behavior that does just that.
“Where in the Bible does Jesus say that people who are homosexual should be shamed for being how they are born or people should be cruel to them?”
Romans 1:27 calls it shameful.
Why do you people insist on showing me 1 Cor 6:9, really like everyone I argue with on this blog about homosexuality shows me that one. Don’t you guys read the rest of the Bible?
Luke 6:31-36
31 Do to others as you would have them do to you. 32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even ‘sinners’ love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even ‘sinners’ do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even ‘sinners’ lend to ‘sinners,’ expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.
1 Corinthians 13
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
Galatians 5:13-14
13 You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. 14 The entire law is summed up in a single command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
“Jack, if you believed in heaven and hell then you show no love by not admonishing a “friend” for behavior that leads them away from the Kingdom of God. And a man engaging in sex with another man is clearly a behavior that does just that. Romans 1:27 calls it shameful”
You got the admonishment part down, why don’t you add the mercy, forgiveness, love and charity in there too? Don’t you realize you catch more flies than honey, and being rude and mean to people just pushes them away?
“Luke 6:31-36
31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.”
Jack,either you don’t understand that a basic concept of Christianity is that you SHOULD admonish sinners or you are so bull-headed as to believe that I would not want somebody to admonish me if I sin. Which is it?
“You got the admonishment part down, why don’t you add the mercy, forgiveness, love and charity in there too?”
Christians show no mercy or love by condoning sin. And forgiveness comes with repentance.
And Jack. Don’t take this in a homosexual way but “I love you”.
I love how just on this blog you insult and belittle people all the time, yet think you’re the person who needs to admonish others about their lives. Isn’t there something about removing the log from your eye before you point out the speck in your brothers? As it stands I’m just seeing you as one of “those” Christians, the ones I grew up with. If I seen you show a bit of humility and grace towards those you disagree with, I might have a different opinion but as it stands, it’s difficult to not see you as just judgmental.
Yes, I always feel the love from you guys. Ha. You either don’t get how you come across or you just refuse to admit it.
Jack,
One time while shopping at a Christian gift shop I bought a t-shirt that read
“friends don’t let friends go to hell”. I’ll leave it at that.
The best way to make sure people don’t end up in hell is to make them hate themselves. Yep.
“Yes, I always feel the love from you guys. Ha. You either don’t get how you come across or you just refuse to admit it.”
I haven’t been reading all of this conversation, but this caught my attention. I hope you know that many of us on this site have supported you, tried to encourage you, prayed for you in your difficult times, and so forth, regardless of whether or not we agree on everything. I don’t know if you’re addressing specific commenters, but I really hope you’re not claiming none of us here have extended love to you, Jack. Because it isn’t true.
No, I wasn’t talking about all of you. I was talking mostly to truthseeker and maybe a few people here and there. Some of you have been pretty great, including you Kel.
The best way to make sure people don’t end up in hell is to speak the truth about the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
“No, I wasn’t talking about all of you. I was talking mostly to truthseeker and maybe a few people here and there. Some of you have been pretty great, including you Kel.”
You had me worried. Don’t scare me like that again! ;)
You can get your gentle love from Kel and the tough love from :0)-+< ts
Yes truth. You should accuse me of supporting child rape again, or of being as bad as a rapist. “tough love”
(I’m seriously not letting that go until you apologize for it).
Ts, you and I agree on the fact that the Gospel will offend, but must still be preached, in love.
And your comment made me chuckle, because I seem to do a pretty good job of ticking people off. :D Gentle? I wish.
Kel, you may say things that people don’t agree with, but you’re not generally rude and I’ve never seen you be cruel. Some people seem to think that since they think something is true, they can say it however they want and they are in the right.
“The best way to make sure people don’t end up in hell is to speak the truth about the Gospel of Jesus Christ.” – what if people don’t want to hear it?
Ex-RINO,Your daddy was a preacher so here is what should be a simple Yes or No question. Yes or No; the Gospel of Jesus Christ teaches homosexuality is a sin.
Reality,
if people don’t want to hear the truth about the Gospel then they would be best to avoid the subject all together. Speaking lies about the Gospel only encourages people to correct you by speaking the truth about the Gospel. At least in my case.
Truth, what does the Bible say to do when you hurt someone, or say things about them that are untrue? There’s a “truth” there you should “seek”.
Jack,
Why would I think you would ever be in favor of anything that would enable sexual predators to get away with rape again and again?
“Truth, what does the Bible say to do when you hurt someone, or say things about them that are untrue?”
When you say something to hurt someone you should try and comfort them. But not if they are speaking false witness to the Gospel. Then you should correct them with the truth.
If you say things about them that are untrue; then you should apologize and ask forgiveness.
g’night
” Why would I think you would ever be in favor of anything that would enable sexual predators to get away with rape again and again?”
This doesn’t make any sense. You very specifically said I support child rapists because idk I don’t think birth control should be illegal or whatever.You should apologize, because obviously I of all people don’t support child rapists.
And you should also apologize in general for comparing gay people to rapists, while you’re at it.
Jack, you know what I said. And it wasn’t that bc should be illegal. How can mischaracterize what I said like that and ask for an apology at the same time. What I said is that people who support laws to give people undocumented access to abortificients are enabling repeat sexual predators. You did the rest.
truth
If you are going to limit me to one word:
Unknown
(the slightly longer answer is, it is clear in Romans and a view other places that a straight person engaging in a homosexual act is a sin – so I’d say yes, but I don’t think there’s enough evidence in the text to make further deductions).
@ reality. Would like to continue our convo. Email or fb maybe? I can appreciate the sincerity of our discussion even though we differ in opinions. I was raised in a very strict Christian home..God has brought me a long way in my views of others and the way they look at the Christian movement. I feel most Christians need to apologize for actions and words against homosexuals, abortion advocates ect. Lot of anger, frustrations and hurt flying around. Never a good combination.
you guys sure stay up late arguing some fine points. I think I should give both ts and Jack a wee bit about Truth/Jesus in the scriptures. [If I had my drothers, I’d likely side with Jack’s unknowing rather than ts confrontation style, but that’s just me.]
It is very interesting what is said re. truth and Jesus. Almost all of it is in St.John’s gospel (and by extension: St Paul’s letters where Jesus being Truth is assumed as a matter of Faith). First of all we have the scene were Jesus addresses the apostles as a group and asks: “Who do people say I am?” The answer (even after some years of hanging out together) IS NOT OBVIOUS. Nor does it confer ANY special status (in a matter of a few seconds, Jesus calls Peter, Satan!).
Now fast-forward to the conversation between Pilate and Jesus. In response: Jesus says, ” I have come to bear witness to the truth” … very much a repetition of His preaching in the Temple. And very much misunderstood by Pilate who says (AS IS WAS SOME PHILOSOPHY DEBATE): “Truth, what is that?” WRONG QUESTION: Truth had to be a ‘what’ and not a ‘who’ … and definitely not the ‘poor, stinky, dirty, beaten man in front of him … no way! There is much the same problem today. Truth remains hidden right-out-front!
Is there a lesson here re. abortion? Yes: we still kill defence-less, innocent life and somehow we’re getting rid of an inconvenience, but really we are the inconvenience! How dare we think of anything as inconvenient?