Columnist: Pro-life laws cause domestic violence… or maybe not
by Kelli
Now, as women’s reproductive freedom faces an unprecedented onslaught of political and legislative threats, domestic violence is suddenly on the rise.
Is there a causal link? Probably not. But it’s more than just a coincidence….
Scholars and police attribute the increase in intimate partner violence to the overall downturn in the economy.
And yet especially in the context of reactionary backlash against the advances women over the last 40 years, the increase in domestic violence seems to fit with an overall backlash aimed at putting women in their places economically, culturally and politically.
~ Sally Kohn, making an attempt to link pro-life laws with a rise in domestic violence (despite the facts, as she herself admits), in an article entitled, “What Do Threats To Roe V. Wade And Domestic Violence Have In Common? Patriarchy.” The Daily Beast, January 22
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Sally says there probably isn’t a causal link between the increase in anti-choice laws and an increase in domestic violence.
She states that scholars and police put the increase in domestic violence down to economic downturn.
And she says that the increase in domestic violence seems to fit with an overall backlash aimed at putting women in their places economically, culturally and politically. That would indicate there are a range of factors, not just anti-choice laws.
So she’s saying that there is increased domestic violence, she says that this fits with an overall backlash to ‘put women in their place’.
What she is saying is that amongst this backlash are factors such as the increase in anti-choice laws and an increase in domestic violence. She is not saying that either one causes the other. They are all evidence of the same thing, increased attacks on what women have gained.
I think that stating she is still attempting to link domestic violence with anti-choice laws is a leap worthy of extra points for difficulty.
Are we considering the homicides, brutality and domestic abuse by men of pregnant women who refuse to abort?
As a woman, it is extremely difficult to see abortion – the “right” to kill our unborn children – listed as an example of “what women have gained”. Although abortion is legal, no one has the right to violate the human rights of another innocent human being. It’s barbaric and uncivilized. Certainly not a progressive advancement for humanity.
Sadly, much of domestic violence is related to drug and alcohol abuse. But when nutcases like this try to force themselves to believe their own narrative, it doesn’t help, and may hurt, women in abusive situations. It is more likely that the opposite of what she says is true: that fatherless children and their mothers fare much worse than those brought up in intact homes. Screaming “patriarchy!” at every turn is not only untrue, it leaves real problems unsolved.
Carla — I looked at the eyes before I read the quote. Why do pro-aborts always have so much anger and cold-bloodedness that they cannot hide it, even in a publicity photo?
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As to Sally Kohn’s comment: Abortion does not empower women. Abortion (and contraception) empower the hated patriarchy.
As Pope Paul VI prophesied in 1968: Cultures that embrace contraception have seen an overall decrease in moral standards, and women have become objects to satisfy men.
Violence toward women is the natural result of those “freedoms” from femininity that feminists fought for. You can blame men for being men all you want…. but the problem stems from women’s rejection of being women.
Because letting men kill millions of babies for money directs their collective gender urges for violence away from women… or something.
As someone “on the inside” so to speak I have seen many cases of men being prosecuted for even sending an email questioning why she aborted their baby. “Harassment” they call it. So what advances are we talking about, the one as Lrning pointed out to abort a develping and valuable human being at a whim? Or the one to prosecute ANYONE who dares to plead? Males have no rights to their own offspring and our society calls this an advance for women?
And 9ek – you are right on -DV has nothing to do with putting a woman in her place economically/culturally/politically but HIS power and control issues. The DV offender, I am sorry to report, does not consider the woman’s political affiliation/cultural heritage or economics when he abuses her. DV is an across the lines phenomena and is perpetrated against very educated and even political women. If what Sally attempts to propose is true, than any man raised with the machismo mentality would abuse (and that is an example of “patriarchy”). So Sally needs to go back to the drawing board….
“Reproductive freedom”? Really? More euphemisms? This is getting old.
You have to read a while in Kohn’s article before you get the idea that – hey! Experts say they’re not really linked, even though you led us to believe in the first few paragraphs that they were!
She’s basically saying, “Are they linked? No. But yes. But experts say no. But I say yes, they pretty much are.”
She was ITCHING for a way to link them. So she did.
Del,
Windows to the soul.
Why is patriarchy a bad thing? I don’t understand this. Look at the inner cities and all the missing fathers and the children who act out in frustration and hurt. Fathers are IMPORTANT. Dads, we NEED YOU!
We bash dead beat dads but then if a man steps up to the plate and takes care of his family we scream “patriarchy!”
I for one am so thankful for my “patriarchal” husband who leads my boys by example and works his butt off to “keep me in my place”–the only place I want to be which is at home raising my precious children. I didn’t carry them for 9 months and birth them to hand off the privilege of raising them to someone else and I was terribly unhappy being away from them when I worked outside the home.
What an awful time to be a man. This society hates them.
This woman, Sally Kohn, needs a hug…and a prayer.
So domestic violence is something new?
Its suddenly “on the rise”? As compared to when?
Folks if it wasn’t blamed on “anti-choice” laws it would be blamed on global warming.
BTW, please correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t feminists object to men who deliberately beat a pregnant woman with the intent of killing her unborn child being charged with murder? Didn’t they have any concern for “freedom of choice” of these women to have their babies?
I wonder how many men would have thought twice about assaulting a pregnant woman if they knew it would result in something more serious than a slap on the wrist.
Or perhaps women are becoming more open about domestic violence. There’s that.
Domestic violence occurs for a variety of reasons.
And hey, did she ever consider the fact that maybe as abortion increases, so has domestic violence? Maybe when people see their children as worthless, that bleeds into how they see others – wives included. Or maybe some of this domestic violence is from men who have no outlet for anger and grief over aborted children.
Or, I don’t know, they might not even be linked.
Domestic violence is a symptom of the great disease of humanity: sin. It’s heartbreaking. It truly, truly is.
And I do have to agree with Sydney M – this society despises men and it’s sad. Instead of setting forth an expectation to be gentlemen, they are debased and cut down. They cant win. If they do nothing, they are called lazy and useless. If they step up, they are chauvinistic pigs. :( As a woman, it makes me really sad.
Or the children who’s fathers ARE around, but they have to witness them bullying their mothers into having their unborn brothers and sisters killed. (not to mention in many cases many other things) Also, I usually have no problem with the way any woman wants to dress and/or wear her hair, but sometimes it seems many “feminists*” tend to shove it in your face by deliberately looking as masculine as possible. The only thing missing is the Tim Allen-ish grunting.
*IMO they are not true feminists.
Thanks Sydney M and LibertyBelle for standing with men. I just want to add that we need to pray for those men who are complicit in aborting their own offspring and contribute to their own dehumanization supporting this “cause.”
Sydney, you may not be aware but there is a sort of fringe section of more fundamentalist evangelicals who promote a particular brand of patriarchy that is currently getting media attention. They are linked with the quiverful movement and also homeschool.
It boils down in the extreme homes to father controlling all. The girls are raised to serve their fathers until marriage. They are typically not allowed to pursue higher education and may not work outside the family business or home as that would be “placing themselves under a man’s authority who is not their husband or father.” They may not date, and father must approve of all courtship suitors.
A lot of it is getting closer scrutiny right now as one of the big proponents, who went so far as to push fathers having 200 year plans for their families fell from grace through affair.
I homeschool, have babies as The Lord gives them and treat my husband with respect, but I would not identify our family as part of “the patriarchy”
It boils down in the extreme homes to father controlling all. The girls are raised to serve their fathers until marriage. They are typically not allowed to pursue higher education and may not work outside the family business or home as that would be “placing themselves under a man’s authority who is not their husband or father.” They may not date, and father must approve of all courtship suitors.
Wow. Sounds like the Taliban lite. What if dad is a creep, a drunk, or a perv?
I do agree, however, that it is important for children to have strong male role models, even though its politically incorrect in many circles. I can count on the fingers of one hand the cases I’ve had where the father is in the home. I am not saying that single mothers can’t do well — many do — but they are the exception rather than the rule.
Feminists often talk about domestic violence, and I don’t have a problem with that, but they often ignore the fact that women abuse and kill their own children at significantly higher rates than men. Is this a result of the dreaded patriarchy, too? We are told that we should “trust women,” but on the other hand, we are weak, gullible creatures that are always under threat from some shadowy white conservative male,
I remember reading an article by Bridgette Bardot complaining about how men had “used” her when she was young and beautiful. Well — no one forced her to sleep with various men, including other women’s husbands.
The same rationale is used to attack the crisis pregnancy centers. We are misleading and scaring women, etc.. We are such fragile and delicate creatures, dontcha know ? If a woman visits a CPC and doesn’t what their services, what is stopping her from just WALKING OUT? And are women so stupid that they don’t know what the words ABORTION ALTERNATIVES mean?
Hi phillymiss,
“Wow, sounds like the Taliban lite”
I’d tell you exactly who it sounds like but I’d PO a lot of people on this blog.
Yeah, what if dad is a creep, drunk or perv. Bad enough he’s a controlling tyrant. According to ElizabethG one of the big proponents fell from grace through affair. Big shocker there.
You make many great points about the “victimization” of women phillymiss,
OK Bridgette, you made some bad choices… put on your big girl panties, live and learn, and move on. Don’t cry “victim”.
Right on about the CPCs. Women serve in the military, pilot aircraft and spacecraft, they’re police officers, undercover agents, race car drivers….but something about a CPC just renders them completely helpless.
Sorry feminists, you can’t have it both ways.
I remember my elderly mother’s comments after the Clarence Thomas hearings, which to me were a colossal farce:
Laughing she asked “Do they think we never had to handle these situations? When did women become so damned helpless?”
Abortion was supposed to end abuse. And poverty.
I guess it takes longer than 41 years??!!
Hi Carla,
How well I remember the bumper sticker.
“Stop Child Abuse, Support Abortion Reform
Note it wasn’t “decrease the rate of child abuse”, it was STOP it. Also abortion was called what it was, not “choice”.
Sure seemed to make a lot of sense. One would think after 41 years child abuse would just be a bad memory.
It stands to reason that the legality of killing a baby through all 9 months of pregnancy would CHEAPEN the value of life.
It stands to reason for those that have reasoning skills I guess. :)
Curious – does the domestic partner violence she cite also include homosexual and lesbians?
Clearly they must be included – otherwise we wouldn’t be seeing a complete picture. Or does Sally herself think that domestic partners only mean men and women who can reproduce/procreate?
Why the bias Sally?
Should we include lesbians and homosexuals for certain purposes, but exclude them from others?
Would love to see the police reports and emergency room reports in all their sordid details. That would be very enlightening, provided it was done truthfully.
Sally – care to do a serious in-depth investigation to uncover and report the truth, no matter where it might lead?
I’m really trying to take a few months of commenting but I can’t help myself!
Domestic violence against men is on the rise too (I think it’s at an all-time high if we go by reported abuses). Is that patriarchy as well? Are women so disempowered and their rights being attacked that… they are more likely to beat on their husbands?
I personally don’t think the rates of DV against either men or women is actually all THAT increased, I would wager that it might be a little higher but it’s more about reporting than anything, the same thing happened with child sexual abuse in the eighties and nineties (especially historically taboo and covered up abuse like incest). I don’t think that child sexual abuse suddenly became much more prevalent in those decades, it was about real attempts to get reporting and help for children that assisted in actually identifying issues, resulting in higher rates being reported. Similarly there’s been a huge push in the last decade or so to support victims which correlates with higher reporting rates, at least when it comes to female victims (if their abuser is a man at least). The push for male victims isn’t as prevalent, but at least it’s somewhat being acknowledged as an actual issue more than it used to be instead of the victims being shamed and mocked as much, and with the relaxing of strict gender roles for men (they are still bad, but it’s getting a bit better), I think that more men would be more likely to admit to being attacked by a woman.
My main concern that domestic violence is an issue that arises from gender roles and patriarchy is that it’s basically useless to view it that way imo. Talking about how patriarchy makes men violent doesn’t help the wife who gets beaten by her husband who is an alcoholic and can’t control his temper when he drinks, or deals with mental illness that isn’t being properly treated. He doesn’t beat her because he thinks he’s a patriarch and “in charge” (though I do think there are many men who are like that, it doesn’t mean that other, more common forms of domestic violence don’t exist). And it has the nasty side effect of completely erasing male victims (especially if their abuser is a woman), and LGBT victims (who don’t even come up in the conversations even though DV is a pretty big problem in the LGBT community even if people don’t talk about it). It irritates me because I completely denied I was in an abusive relationship for years, I was just incapable of recognizing it even though I was firmly against domestic violence. It’s just I saw most domestic violence awareness directed at women, and all those “domestic violence checklists” had the male abuser/female victim dynamic, and it didn’t click for me until I realized how badly the kids were being affected, and I read one of those checklists and realized that if I switched the genders it would describe my marriage almost exactly. I do believe that speaking of domestic violence as something that men always perpetrate against women, and that it’s something that rises out of gender roles and patriarchy, is damaging to women AND men, abusers and victims.
And the way we are combating domestic violence isn’t working correctly imo, and it’s just making things even worse for male victims AND female victims, and that’s DIRECTLY due to this model of violence being perpetrated by men against women because of dominance and patriarchy. Don’t even get me started on the Duluth model, if you want to talk about anti-male there you go (google it, I don’t even want to go into it because it makes me so mad). And the VAWA had some great points, but it freaks me out that the way they define the “primary aggressor” is definitely biased against dudes. One of the ways to define the primary aggressor was “height and weight of the parties involved” and “which of the partners has the potential to seriously injure the other”. Um, okay, men tend to be bigger than women, and in LGBT relationships one person might be bigger than the other. I outweigh my ex by fifty pounds, I’m like five inches taller, and I’m not even a big guy. That’s not a good way to identify who’s the abuser, at all. If you can’t/are unwilling to defend yourself against a smaller person (which many abused men like myself are not, most men who aren’t monsters are VERY reluctant to risk hurting a woman even if she’s trying to hurt them), then the physical size difference doesn’t mean anything. That’s not reason to automatically arrest the guy. The times that the police got called to my place by neighbors very nearly ended in my arrest quite often. Because my 100 lb 5’5″ wife didn’t fit the model of a patriarchal male abuser asserting his dominance against the little woman, and so the police would assume it was me causing the problems, even by being told by the actual abuser that SHE was the one who was hitting and I was the only one who ever had injuries (because I’m not stupid, and I knew even trying to hold her back might cause a bruise and then I would totally be screwed). Some of the police even made fun of me for making her mad. It wasn’t funny, and just because she was smaller doesn’t mean she should have gotten a free pass. I’m just lucky I didn’t live in a mandatory arrest state and that my ex didn’t feel like getting me arrested. THAT’S the result of refusing to look at domestic violence realistically instead of through an academic feminist lens that distorts statistics and disregards everything that doesn’t fall into a model of “men oppress, women are oppressed). Oh, and it also turns the focus onto punishing the perpetrator instead of fixing the issues that lead to domestic violence. Many, probably even most, DV cases are contributed by alcohol/drugs, economic strain, and mental illness. But that’s completely ignored when we only look at DV from a patriarchy standpoint. And it also ignores the (uncomfortable for many people to admit) fact that MUCH domestic violence is mutual, both partners abuse each other. There is certainly plenty of one-sided abuse, I certainly never in a million years “fought back” or otherwise contributed to the physical and emotional abuse my ex committed against me, but the sad fact is some couples are reciprocally violent to each other. This needs to be discussed and solutions need to be talked about, instead of pretending that all domestic violence situations involve an abusive man, an innocent victim woman, and patriarchal control.
And trying to (however badly) relate domestic violence rates to pro-life laws, I don’t even have the words for that stupidity. What about the many women coerced, threatened, or injured by the father of the baby into having an abortion? What about the fact that the most likely cause of a pregnant woman’s death is murder? Protecting babies INCREASES the value of human life, since we don’t remove rights from people at any stage (whether they are in utero, married, commit adultery, abuse alcohol, etc). It’s got nothing to do with the complicated issues that surround domestic violence, and I think it’s rather sick that people are trying to hijack a very serious issue like domestic violence in all it’s forms to fit it into a radical feminist’s agenda. Disgusting.
“Feminists often talk about domestic violence, and I don’t have a problem with that, but they often ignore the fact that women abuse and kill their own children at significantly higher rates than men. Is this a result of the dreaded patriarchy, too? We are told that we should “trust women,” but on the other hand, we are weak, gullible creatures that are always under threat from some shadowy white conservative male, ”
Yup. I honestly think that some of the more extreme feminists (and sadly, it seems the whole movement is tended that way) are more sexist than all but the most extreme right wingers. I would be offended if I were a woman and I were treated as if no bad decision I ever made was ever my responsibility. Honestly, some of them even seem to give men more credit than women. They tend to dislike men, but at least they consider us adults responsible for our own poor choices and bad actions. With women it’s excuses and blame for everyone but the woman, from some of the ideologues. Women are not small children, they are adults capable of making mistakes and doing bad things, as well as being capable of doing great things and making good decisions. You know, because they are people just like men are. What a concept!
They tend to blame higher rates of child abuse committed by women on everything but the abuser, too. She must have been abused herself (sometimes true, but not always), she must be mentally ill (sometimes true, but not always), it’s really her husband/boyfriend’s fault for not being supportive enough (sometimes true, but not always), it’s society’s fault, it’s the media’s fault, it’s the church’s fault, it that random dude down the street’s fault, anyone but the actual perpetrator of the violence. It’s the same thing with women who commit non-reciprocal domestic violence, I can’t count the number of people who have blamed my ex’s violence on my personality, or my actions, or my existence basically, instead of her. Why aren’t more women offended by this? I get offended that people don’t give men a break sometimes, that if you do something bad or something bad happens to you it’s ALWAYS your fault (men tend to be seen as hyper-responsible, never vulnerable or with other issues), but I think it’s just as offensive to act like women have less responsibility for their actions than toddlers. I see a lot of feminists complain that women aren’t given enough agency by conservatives, which can certainly be true on the extremes, but they don’t seem to see that their own ideology is doing the same thing. If there was ONE group you would think is guaranteed to give women more agency and responsibility for their own actions, it would be feminists, but sadly the movement seems to be moving away from female empowerment and respect and towards babying women. What happened to the focus on empowerment? It honestly (this isn’t going to sound nice, but it’s something I’ve observed) seems to me that some of these feminists got the male gender role that they wanted… and realized that it’s not all that it’s cracked up to be. Sure, men tend to be given more credit for their accomplishments and such, but we also are given a lot less emotional support and leeway for mistakes. There’s a reason suicide, addiction, and untreated mental illness is more common among males than females in western countries. Apparently the grass wasn’t as green as they thought, and it seems like some of them are looking for the benefits of the traditional male gender role AND the benefits of the traditional female gender role, with none of the downsides. How about we try to have more understanding and kindness of ALL people, of either gender, without absolving them of responsibility and agency?
But seriously, I do think it’s offensive when people act as though women are somehow magically empowered and delicate wilting flowers at the same time. It’s just ridiculous. And I know this comment makes me sound really anti-feminist, which isn’t true. I think there are great things about the feminist movement, especially historically, but I think there is a real tendency to remove agency and responsibility from women as well as completely denying biological differences between the average male and the average female. like the fiasco with the Marine combat training. I saw multiple feminists defending the relaxed standards for female Marines. If you can’t do three pull ups, I’m sorry I don’t see how it’s safe to allow you to be in combat situations that may require you to drag a 200 lb male out of harms way with all his equipment on. Of course. women who can pass the original standards should be allowed in combat roles, but it’s flat out dangerous (not “sexist”) to lower the standards. It just seems like people stopped fighting for equality and are doing some nonsensical and dangerous stuff now. Feminism can be a great thing and it’s 100% necessary to work on things that are unfair and sexist towards women (and men, but that’s never been the primary goal of the feminist movement, men need to get off their butts and do something about the inequalities facing us, it’s not feminist responsibility), but I don’t like the current trends at all.
Sally, what do you call a society that permits Mothers to kill their own children? “Patriarchy,” – yeah, right.
TYLER! This is Jack, I’ve missed you! How have you been doing? I was just thinking about you the other day and hoping you are doing well.
Hi Jack. I am doing ok. How about you
:/ Just okay? Why not excellent?! :)
I have been doing okay myself. I moved to an entirely different state and my kids seem happy. How is your family doing? How old is your son now?
Welcome back Tyler! It is good to see you back here.
Hi Jack. I think your posts are very good. I’m glad to hear you are doing ok and your kids seem happy. Your transparency regarding domestic violence against men is enlightenting.
Please note the rate of domestic violence is skyrocketing as the rate of cohabitation is skyrocketing. Lots of documentation by Glenn T. Stanton in his books “The Ring Makes All the Difference” and “Why Marriage Matters”. Journal of Family Violence reported most common relationships with domestic violence are cohabiting couples “with 48% close to one half. Those who are divorced and separated 27.3% and the lowest rate 19% among married couples. They also found women being violent with hitting, shoving or throwing things at their partner it was definitely not just the men. Children are also more likely to be abused in cohabiting relationships, a child living with their mother and her boyfriend are around 11 times more likely to be emotionally, verbally, physically and sexually abused compared to children living with their own married parents. The journal Pediatrics noted children living with a nonbiologically related adult were 8 times more likely to die of maltreatment than children with their 2 biological parents.
The rates of domestic violence in LGBT relationships Jack is something no one addresses it is not PC but when I listened to a testimony of an ex-lesbian who is now in ministry she said it is a very real issue. She lived the lifestyle for 18 years before her conversion 13 years ago. Oh BTW, Ms. Kohn is a self-professed lesbian and I think her brand of feminism is the radical, male-bashing, pro-abortion kind. Not every kind of feminism is this kind of course. Susan B. Anthony’s List comes to mind here.
Hi ProliferL,
How I hoped we’d hear from you when discussing pregnancy and its complications on the other thread! Your input and expertise would have been greatly appreciated.
I told posters Jill and you are far more expert in that area than I am.
Hi Mary. How are you? I must have missed that thread which one was it? I have been only able to post occasionally and usually late at night if at all. Thanks for the compliment not sure I could have helped but I do try. God bless.
Hi PLL,
Its the Kim Kardashian thread on the previous page.
Even if the mother’s boyfriend is the child(ren)’s father, Prolifer L? I’m not trying to argue with you, I really am curious.
“The journal Pediatrics noted children living with a nonbiologically related adult were 8 times more likely to die of maltreatment than children with their 2 biological parents. “
Isn’ that the truth Prolifer L. I find one link extremely helpful in researching this topic further:
http://center4research.org/violence-risky-behavior/violence-and-threats-in-the-home/father-figures-are-the-answer-but-whats-the-question/
Yes, the abuse rates of non-related adults living in a home are higher than biological relatives. I hope people don’t forget that biological parents can be abusive too though, a nuclear family doesn’t guarantee a happy and safe home. My parents got married young, were married 38 years before my dad died, and had six kids together. They were also both very very abusive, even to each other at times not just me and my brother, and I think that the way my sisters had to witness abuse was emotional abuse towards them as well. I realize married parents are less likely to perpetuate instability and abuse, but we can’t forget to be constantly vigilant about the welfare of all children (and people in abusive relationships as adults), even those in nuclear families.