by Carder
Rules for Dating My Daughter
1. I don’t make the rules
2. You don’t make the rules
3. She makes the rules
4. Her body, her rules
~ Feminist Father t-shirt spotted by Bonnie Ramthun, who asks, “What is wrong with this t-shirt? Besides everything?”, PJ Media, January 6
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Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
1st problem: She doesn’t make the rules – God does.
There’s more problems, but if everyone played along according to God’s rules – there wouldn’t be any problems.
I suppose any man who would wear a shirt like that would have no problem with an unfaithful wife/girlfriend/boyfriend/spouse – because after all – s/he makes up the rules.
This is a great message as far as the prevention of sexual assault is concerned; no one should be pressured to have sex before they are ready, and it’s usually the girl setting the boundaries. But when you’re talking about teenagers (of either sex), I do think parents have a role to play. Young people with little life experience can’t always spot a manipulator. Sometimes parents need to put their foot down and say “This guy/girl is bad news; you need to stop seeing him/her.”
Pc men fall into 2 catergories…brow beaten by pc women or cowards who want sex without responsibilitý
Does the front of that T-shirt list the anatomical parts of this “father” which have gone missing or stopped working?
I think that the message is great as long as the young woman has had strong, loving parents who guided and taught her enough to make intelligent, responsible “rules” about her body.
The boy makes the rules with respect to his body. The girl doesn’t have the right to his body parts without his permission any more than the reverse.
Agree that if this shirt is referring to sexual consent issues it’s a good message, as Kelsey said, in general it tends to be teen girls setting boundaries.
Of course if he takes the “her body, her rules” to mean she should have the “right” to abortion without any input from her baby’s father or her own parents then that I don’t agree with. That’s starting to get into Billy Joe Cain territory.
THIS guy is the worst dad of 2014? Worse than men who, at this point in the year, have already ignored their children? Beaten them? Raped or assaulted them? Coerced them into having an abortion? Thrown their kid off the roof of a highrise? (I guess that one was probably in 2013…) Screamed at their kids for doing some little thing wrong?
This guy. This is your “worst dad of 2014” so far. A guy who suggests that his daughter is better off making decisions about her own body than he is, or than her boyfriend is.
That’s quite a worldview you’ve got there.
Big seller I bet.
Uh, if this is targeted at fathers of minor daughters it’s pretty poor parenting advice. “So, my daughter did a bunch of meth and got in an orgy last night, but you know I don’t make the rules. Her body and all”. All right, now.
But I think it would be a good message if it was about respecting people’s boundaries, instead of the whole “oh no I’m her dad but I have zero input on my kid’s decisions”. That part’s ridiculous, not the whole respecting boundaries stuff. Though it would be cool if anyone, ever, realized that males are allowed to have boundaries too and it’s not always the guy pushing things. It’s more rare, but those boundaries should be respected too. Guys aren’t always up for it. What about a religious boy who wants to wait for marriage or something?
Ella Rae have you ever heard of exaggeration? ;)
Teenagers and adolescents are in need of more guidance than little kids. Little child, small problems but an older child, bigger problems. I somehow don’t think that any feminist organization would endorse this t-shirt ever. Especially as many here have echoed the sentiment that sexuality is not something to take lightly. Any father who would wear this t-shirt is an absentee figure and nothing more.
“Teenagers and adolescents are in need of more guidance than little kids. Little child, small problems but an older child, bigger problems.”
Ha, exactly. I have a 3 yo and a 5 yo. Their biggest problems are that one of them wants to watch Spongebob and the other wants to watch Disney movies and Daddy it’s my turn. I am already planning on being one of those really embarrassing dads that teenagers roll their eyes at. “Of course you can see a movie with that boy/girl, Daughter/Son. What are we going to see?” Lol.
“I somehow don’t think that any feminist organization would endorse this t-shirt ever.”
I missed this, I think you’re being too generous here. Feminist organizations (not ALL of them, but many) are the ones pushing no parental notification/consent for abortion and other “reproductive health” issues, for minor girls (well, minors in general, but most doctors won’t do vasectomies on minors, there’s no male birth control pill, and boys don’t get abortions). For some reason they see minor girls as completely capable of making their own sexual decisions. You see PP and NOW and such talking about “teen sexual freedom” and such.
Now, I think they have a point that teen health is important, and a teen who makes a sexual mistake or gets involved in promiscuity should be able to access STD testing and treatment and such (not abortion, though, of course) without being afraid of being punished, but they have gone off the deep end treating minors like they are mini-adults completely capable of making sexual decisions in all cases. And they’ve completely, utterly failed at being honest about how sexual decisions affect teenagers, and they for some reason tend to completely deny that the consequences of casual sex tend to be harder on girls. But really, I can see a lot of feminist organizations totally backing this shirt, especially the “males apparently have no say in sexual situations, ever” message. “Girl power!” uh huh.
Well Jack, one of my New Year’s resolutions was to have more faith. Can’t blame a guy for trying…
Mine is to be more positive and uplifting in general towards other people. :)
Here’s hoping we both succeed.
Agree that the boundaries of boys and men should be respected as well. I don’t understand why establishment feminists don’t see that they are often reinforcing rigid gender roles by furthering the idea of boys/men as “always up for it” and always sexually exploiting women. Certainly this does happen but to assume it’s a universal trait of the entire male gender, as it often seems like people do, is furthering gender stereotypes.
But that’s just one example of how establishment feminists in general and the leadership of these organizations in particular are reluctant to consider different perspectives and better understand the complexities of issues. Some (not all but some) seem to truly think all women (and all men) are essentially the same and must have the same beliefs and values and attitudes as all others of their gender. Different perspectives are really not welcomed.
And heaven forbid you’re a South Asian (or Middle Eastern) woman who disagrees or has a different perspective on issues than the establishment organizations’ leadership does. Clearly you’re just a pawn of your patriarchal culture, repeating what your husband told you to. *sarcasm of course, but this really is the attitude I get from some people.*
“Certainly this does happen but to assume it’s a universal trait of the entire male gender, as it often seems like people do, is furthering gender stereotypes.”
Like I’ve said before, a lot lol, I think it helps create more of the boys and men that people rightfully dislike. If the messages a boy gets from birth is that he’s a sexual aggressor, that it’s always going to be him that wants to “take things further”, and that he won’t ever not want to wait, or stop things at a certain point, many boys will think there is something wrong with them for not wanting to be the aggressor, the pusher, the oh so horny one. I’ve seen it many time with teen boys, they feel “weird” or “not a real man” for not being comfortable in sexual situations, and they are just as influenced by peer pressure as girls are to engage in early sexual activity (not saying that their hormones don’t play a big role, but I do believe that the vast majority of boys would be capable of self-control with proper guidance). It’s also placing a heckuva lot more responsibility on girls, because obviously if we men have zero sexual morals, the only one stopping inappropriate sex is going to be women. That’s not solely female responsibility, ever. Dudes should shape up and they are capable, despite what people like to think.
Some feminists certainly can be the biggest perpetrators of gender roles, it’s certainly true. I am always amused to see how much they sound like the most staunch conservatives that they seem to dislike so much (men are sexual aggressors, women always their prey). I don’t think they are doing women any favors by treating men like they are all slobbering dogs, doesn’t seem like healthy relationships would be forthcoming.
Does he have one with the same set of rules regarding his son?
Was this shirt better or worse than the first draft that read: “My daughter can have sex with you only if she wants to”?
“Was this shirt better or worse than the first draft that read: “My daughter can have sex with you only if she wants to”?”
Haha! Bingo.
“My daughter can have sex with you only if she wants to”? – is that a bad thing to say? Are you saying that whether she wants to or not isn’t important LifeJoy?
“Her body, her rules” =/= “she’s gonna have lotsa sex”
Do we even know his daughter’s age?
PJ Media – “Voices from a free America”…sorta.
“My daughter can have sex with you only if she wants to”? – is that a bad thing to say? Are you saying that whether she wants to or not isn’t important LifeJoy?”
What I’m saying is that this statement is painfully obvious and/or creepy.
Additionally, if his daughter is making the rules and NOT dad, then why is he wearing a shirt ennumerating the rules?
I think it’s a just plain silly shirt bordering on creepy myself.
A few people have jumped to conclusions though. It seems the point of his shirt isn’t obvious to everyone.
He probably should be wearing one that says “don’t ask me…”
He might be a bit of a dopey dad, he may be an embarrassing dad. But I don’t see how he can be called the worst dad.
Reality I think it’s trying to get away from the idea of dads as the “gatekeepers” of their daughters sexuality. Which is fine… for adult daughters. If your daughter becomes an adult and she has no idea how to deal with idiot dudes and dating that’s a whole other issue. If it’s directed at minor daughters though, it becomes many times more creepy imo. No, you can’t just tell your daughter’s teenage boyfriend “idk ask her!”, that comes to nowhere good. Teens are kids, they do need and appreciate guidance in such matters. And other parents might not care about your daughter’s welfare like you do, and might not have taught their sons very well.
I wouldn’t wear a shirt like that even if my daughter were an adult, it’s still stupid. If my daughter’s boyfriend is asking me about what “rules” there are for dating my adult daughter, I would have to consider myself making some major mistakes in raising her.
That all goes for my son too. Don’t want no pressuring girls dating him either.
I think it’s trying to get away from the idea of dads as the “gatekeepers” of their daughters sexuality. – so do I ‘cos that is creepy.
Which is fine… for adult daughters. – we don’t know her age.
If my daughter’s boyfriend is asking me about what “rules” there are for dating my adult daughter, I would have to consider myself making some major mistakes in raising her. – I’d be considering what mistakes his parents had made in raising him.
I really think the whole thing’s been overblown. He is not the ‘worst dad of 2014’.
“If my daughter’s boyfriend is asking me about what “rules” there are for dating my adult daughter, I would have to consider myself making some major mistakes in raising her. – I’d be considering what mistakes his parents had made in raising him”
Well that too. I’d mostly be wondering what I did wrong to make her pick such a winner who obviously had little respect for her autonomy. If she didn’t dump him is when the “I failed as a parent” would come in, haha.
“I really think the whole thing’s been overblown. He is not the ‘worst dad of 2014?. ”
Has no one ever heard of exaggeration or hyperbole for rhetoric effect??
I’d mostly be wondering what I did wrong to make her pick such a winner who obviously had little respect for her autonomy. If she didn’t dump him is when the “I failed as a parent” would come in, haha. – likewise :-)
Has no one ever heard of exaggeration or hyperbole for rhetoric effect?? – sure, but shouldn’t there be a limit?
“Has no one ever heard of exaggeration or hyperbole for rhetoric effect?? – sure, but shouldn’t there be a limit? ”
Idk, I don’t really care. He’s obviously, clearly, blatantly not the worst dad in the world (as far as we know from just the shirt, he could be awful in other ways). And you know that, so discuss the subject instead of word choice!
I think this dad in the comments is about as misguided as Mr Feminist Dad:
“1. I make the rules around here.
2. Due to our twisted society’s political correctness you are remarkably expendable; lead my little girl astray in any way, and you will disappear without a trace very suddenly and very mysteriously.
3. For as long as she lives under my roof, refer to rule 1.
4. In the unlikely event that SHE is the one attempting to lead YOU astray, reporting this to me at once greatly increases both your life expectancy and the odds that she will be grounded for the duration of it.”
Yes, you do all that Dad, and when your princess rebels and sleeps with drug dealers and “bad boys” because it would make you mad, I think you might regret it.
Lol this guy is even worse!
“Rules for dating my daughter:
1. Stay away or die.
2. See number 1”
I’ve never seen that work either!
Maybe in medieval times :-)
Or a theocracy, maybe, sometimes. (Although they usually kill the daughter for the crime of some boy wanting to come near her.)
I’m just never going get the mindset of threatening/hurting kids over consensual sex. If someone coerced or raped one of my kids, well I have a gun. Consensual sex? Never seen threats and coercion work to stop that kind of stuff. I did seen a lot of pampered girls slum it with us bad boys because once she got out of Dad’s really authoritarian thumb, she kinda went nuts, and she never actually learned to deal with dating. THAT I don’t want my daughter to do. If she brings someone home who is like I was I would have a few things to say (but I wouldn’t threaten to murder him).
Authoritative, not authoritarian. Too strict dads can cause as many problems as absent dads do.
I cannot imagine what sort of father would endorse this message. I’ve been thinking about it all day.
The best I can come up with is this: When he was a young man, this father pressured lots of young women to have sex with him, and strongly pressured some of them to abort his children. So now his perceptions of all women are warped, including his own daughter. To him, every woman is an object who makes “choices” about which men she will pleasure.
Exactly LDPL. Respect and understanding, not fear.
Reaching deep there Del?
His shirt says “I am not a sexist, patriarchal control freak and I have helped my daughter attain the capacity to make her own valid choices”
Haha. Reality and DLPL, you have the discussion covered. My dad used to clean his gun in front of suitors. (Those were the only times I’d ever seen it – well, that and the time a water moccasin tried to feast on our prize bass). Although discouraging physical contact may have been a welcomed by-product, the message was “don’t hurt my daughter …” That included broken hearts and the like. Or so I thought/think … Oh wait …
“My dad used to clean his gun in front of suitors. (Those were the only times I’d ever seen it – well, that and the time a water moccasin tried to feast on our prize bass). Although discouraging physical contact may have been a welcomed by-product, the message was “don’t hurt my daughter …” That included broken hearts and the like. Or so I thought/think … Oh wait … ”
See I just don’t get it. I haven’t been a teen girl, but I was a teen boy. If some dad had cleaned a gun in front of me I probably would have laughed (outside shooting range). I don’t think fear overpowers sex drives and crappy parenting (not saying your dad wasn’t parenting correctly, but who knows what kinda parents the boys had, and what messages weren’t going to be counteracted that easily).
“don’t hurt my daughter…” in a broader context such as broken hearts is a bit more rational. In an olden days kinda way.
Well, yeah, DLPL, it was mostly a joke, as my dad was the nicest person in the universe. And he had high standards for me, but was not super strict. He liked the good stories – and obviously, that made him legendary. And yet, wouldn’t it make you think twice? Looking a dude square in the eyes and saying treat her nicely goes a long way too. I remember well that one time someone honked the horn for me rather than coming in …. Haha.
And, yes, intimidation tactics by dads do not stifle teenage hormones, but they do situate the boy (and girl!) into a world where he imagines a concerned father and loving family – and it may indeed have an effect on how he respects rather than objectifies her.
“And yet, wouldn’t it make you think twice? Looking a dude square in the eyes and saying treat her nicely goes a long way too.”
I was pretty “meh” about everything as a teen so I doubt it. I am a weirdo though, you might wanna ask someone more typical lol. But I hope you don’t think I’m saying that parents should say nothing to their kid’s dates. I would talk them about my expectations, I just wouldn’t do that country song threatening lol.
“I remember well that one time someone honked the horn for me rather than coming in …. Haha. ”
Yeah that guy wouldn’t be taking my kid anywhere after doing that, until he came in and had a cup of coffee with me while we chatted about how we do and don’t treat women.
“And, yes, intimidation tactics by dads do not stifle teenage hormones, but they do situate the boy (and girl!) into a world where he imagines a concerned father and loving family – and it may indeed have an effect on how he respects rather than objectifies her.”
I guess, no one would buy it coming from me though lol. I have the least threatening affect ever. Ask anyone here who was on my Facebook, no one would buy threats, and when I was a teen the other drug dealers used to make fun of me because I was too “sweet” haha. Doesn’t mean I can’t let them know I am a concerned father with expectations and that she/he has a loving family and deserves to be treated right.
Also this has been done before- anyone remember “8 Simple Rules (For Dating My Teenage Daughter) the show? The idea for that came from a book a dad wrote.
Look, if she’s an adult, she doesn’t need her dad giving her date rules. If she’s a minor, the rule is certainly not “idk, ask her if she wants to have sex w/ you.” The rule is no. And that doesn’t mean it needs to be enforced w/ guns and intimidation and threats. BUT if there’s no expectation set at all besides “hey don’t rape her”, then the outcome is not going to be good.
“Look, if she’s an adult, she doesn’t need her dad giving her date rules. If she’s a minor, the rule is certainly not “idk, ask her if she wants to have sex w/ you.” The rule is no. And that doesn’t mean it needs to be enforced w/ guns and intimidation and threats. BUT if there’s no expectation set at all besides “hey don’t rape her”, then the outcome is not going to be good. ”
Yeah, the whole “have fun you crazy kids” *wink wink* was not what I was trying to get across, at all. I just think I’d rather build a relationship with my minor son/daughter’s dates and have them hang out at the house or do activities with the family before they go on “alone” dates. I think relationships, supervision, conversations, and such work a lot better than my incredibly non-threatening self trying to scare some dumb kid into pretending he doesn’t have hormones, lol.
I get you Jack. Our oldest is ten and he “has been with the same girl” 2 years now. Daughter of very good family friends. The kids are at each others houses constantly. This gives me a very good opportunity to not only build a relationship with my future daughter-in-law but also keep a watchful eye on their “dating” ;)
“I just think I’d rather build a relationship with my minor son/daughter’s dates and have them hang out at the house or do activities with the family before they go on “alone” dates. I think relationships, supervision, conversations, and such work a lot better than my incredibly non-threatening self trying to scare some dumb kid into pretending he doesn’t have hormones.”
Agreed. I know that’s not what you were saying. This shirt is just ludicrous. This dad is either overstepping his boundaries in a weird way or not doing his job (depending on age of the girl).