Girl Scouts promote Wendy Davis as “incredible woman” of 2013
by Kelli
If the Girl Scouts believe Wendy Davis is “incredible,” then it is possible they might also subscribe to their idol’s “religious” philosophy. In August, Davis said that abortion is “sacred ground.”
~ Dr. Susan Berry, reacting to the Girl Scouts’ recent promotion of Texas late-term abortion proponent Wendy Davis as one of their “incredible women of the year,” Breitbart, January 5
[HT: Susie Allen; photo of tweet via Breitbart]
Jan.07, 2014 1:00 am |
Political anti-life bias |
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Ugh, out of the literally millions of awesome women, Wendy “Hours of Abortion Filibustering” Davis is one they pic?
Thats sad. I was a GS. We had so much fun. Cookie selling camping. What a shame. When I was a GS I didnt even know what abortion was. Now the very organization that was fun for young girls is supporting the murder of little girls. I havent bought cookies in years. I guess I never will again.
Who will the boyscouts be looking up to? Gosnell? Carhart? Omg these poor kids.
I posted two comments on the GSA Facebook page. It will be interesting what if any responses. So far there are many commenters there who claim GSA deletes any questions regarding Wendy but still many remain.
Really, Wendy Davis? Was 2013 such a slow year for women that they can’t do any better?
You know the world has gone mad when a supposed “hero” of the year – grouped next to a young girl who survived an attack on her LIFE because she wanted an education – is a woman who pushed for viable babies to continue being killed arbitrarily.
NUTS.
To be clear: It was HuffPo who posted the list of “amazing women” — Wendy and several other women with left-and-death enthusiasms were included, of course.
The weird part is this: As a part of GSA’s contest to name a famous female role model, someone with access to GSA’s twitter account thought a list from HuffPo would be a good place to start.
GSA top leadership is just way out-of-touch with American parents.
Standing with girls that what 9? 10? 11? years before she advocated for them dying in the womb??? Wendy would have celebrated the “right” for their mommies to choose to kill them before they ever could BECOME Girl Scouts!!
INSANITY!!
btw
Whenever I post on facebook about the Girl Scout/PP connection I get blasted by others because they are GS leaders and have NEVER talked about sex with their little group.
“We do crafts!! We have fun!! We sell cookies!!”
Big picture here people. Let’s look at the big picture.
Try the alternative
American Heritage Girls
http://www.ahgonline.org/
My daughter used to be in Girl Scouts, and the excellent troop leader developed all of the activities from Boy Scout manuals. The Girl Scout manuals were filled with a lot of talk but very little learning of skills. Her troop leader and I had many a discussion on how empowerment comes from learning skills and being in charge of one’s life, not chanting mindless mantras on empowerment like sheep.
Despite all their protestations to the contrary, GSUSA repeatedly and voluntarily gets themselves involved with this brand of feminism. If they were concerned about distancing themselves from women empowerment = abortion/contraception/sex, then they would make efforts to do so. It’s not really that difficult and these are not stupid people at the helm, so I’m inclined to think this is official girl scout policy. It’s irrelevant that local troops are just doing crafts or whatever. This is what girl scouts stands for lately. It’s a shame.
GSA on Facebook just responded to my comment that they wanted to share this list for GSA supporters to vote but in no way promoted or endorsed anyone on it.
I am in agreement with you January 7, 2014 at 11:16 am post Del thus I responded to their assertion with reasoning you presented. The mere association with a list that includes a staunch pro-abort, leads one to believe the organization condones such individuals.
I cant ever get anything through to a pro death group on Facebook. They delete me. I quit trying.
“My daughter used to be in Girl Scouts, and the excellent troop leader developed all of the activities from Boy Scout manuals. The Girl Scout manuals were filled with a lot of talk but very little learning of skills. Her troop leader and I had many a discussion on how empowerment comes from learning skills and being in charge of one’s life, not chanting mindless mantras on empowerment like sheep.”
Huh, I assumed that they all did activities similar to the Boy Scouts, it’s pretty disappointing if they don’t. “Talk” is okay, but kids need to “do” as well. I wouldn’t let my daughter join nowadays though, I’ll find another activity for her to do.
I was a Camp Fire Girl. Lots of people have never heard of them, but I loved it. Now they are CampFire USA and admit boys. I don’t think they are as bad as the GSA when it comes to life issues, but they’re not too good, either.
One the FB girl scout sites leads the reader to http://www.stoptheviolencecampaign.com which is defined as a global advocacy campaign aimed at ending all forms of violence against girls.
Except of course if you want to kill girls in the womb. Let’s look the other way on that one. Here have another Thin Mint.
The fact that Girl Scouts is honoring another pro-abort sweetheart is one thing—another is that Wendy Davis is a sitting Texas state senator and actively putting together a campaign to run for Governor of Texas. Davis announced her intention to run for Governor of Texas in the 2014 election on October 3, 2013.
So the Girl Scouts are now involved in promoting a candidate for political office…another fine reason to avoid involvement with Girl Scouts.
Jack, I was a Girl Scout and we did plenty of cool stuff, but I think it could easily vary. We went camping etc. We made things like sit-upons for our camping trips (which I still make!) and we learned simple campfire-friendly meals to make. We went caroling in the hospital at the Christmas season and decorated the waiting areas on other holidays. One year we built a float and marched in a local Halloween parade. We spent nights at the history museum and the science museum and the aircraft carrier-turned-museum, learning about stuff (I remember watching a woman dissect a cow eye at the science museum, haha). We learned fire safety and how to call 911 (I’m talking like first grade for that one). etc.
We did “fluffier” things too but I think they were just as cool. We made little pouches out of old clothes, little carryall things with a fold-over top. We did leaf art. We went to the local high school and ballet school shows. One desperate cold and rainy day we made barrettes by hot-gluing little fake flowers and beads onto hair clips, lol. We brought in our old barbies and gave them a “spa day” – washing them in soap and brushing their hair and picking outfits for them – to get them to an acceptable level for donation. We raised money and sponsored a whale, and we did a little study unit on whales to go along with it. etc.
I think it depends a lot on your troop leader. My 7-year old stepson is a Boy Scout and they do a lot more whole-unit activities, like with the whole den or whatever, all the local troops of various ages etc. it seems more rigidly structured as to what they do when these big meetings take place at least. Girl Scouts was more just your individual troop, at least until the activities like camping etc. And your troop is led by an individual person, or a couple of them. I mean it is still part of the organization but there seems to be the potential for a bit more customization than there is in Boy Scouts.
Did you get married Alexandra? You may have mentioned it and I missed it.
If so, Congratulations!!
Thanks for the info Alexandra, I’m glad you had a positive experience with Girl Scouts. I think it’s good they had you girls do more “feminine” things along with more typically “boy” things, I think a lot of girl empowerment stuff tends to degrade more “soft” stuff, thinking that girls can’t be empowered if they are feminine, which is obviously nonsense. I wish that they weren’t so wedded to PP and such, otherwise I might consider having my daughter join a good troop when she’s older. I guess I’ll find something else for her.
Not yet, Praxedes!
Jack, it makes me pretty sad how involved Girl Scouts are with PP too. I could deal with them being neutral or whatever but they don’t seem to be creating a situation that I can ignore. It’s a major drag. I don’t know, we had some concerns about Boy Scouts too, since the 7-year old is into some culturally “girly” things and there are all kinds of baggage that come with that. I don’t think he is any more likely to be gay just because he likes pink or flowers or whatever, and I know there have been long conversations here about that stuff before and I’ve taken some heat, but I adamantly maintain when anyone who says, “Boys don’t like purple,” he needs to know that he IS a boy and he likes purple so obviously that person is wrong – HE is not wrong to like purple, and he is certainly not wrong about being a boy. He is a boy who likes purple and anyone who says he can’t obviously isn’t paying attention, because he can. etc. Anyway we did want to make sure prior to his joining that it was an organization that would expand his life in ways that will be good for him (ie he is super into fishing, he loves going camping with us, etc) and not one that might make him feel bad about some other aspects of himself. Like with Girl Scouts, we figured it probably varies a lot locally. We talked with the troop leaders a bit about it and they were very inclusive and were clear on the fact that there is no denigration of things like that in the troop. I was like, “Listen, I don’t want this to be a place where he goes to make daisy chains or whatever, because that’s not what we are looking for from you guys so I don’t want anyone to think that. I just don’t want it to be a place where he learns that making daisy chains is BAD or GIRLY or something.” We haven’t had any problems with any of it, and he loves all his scouting stuff. I think it is the sort of thing you need to know at the individual, local-troop level though, and decide for yourself overall.
I can’t for sure say the same about Girl Scouts, since it’s not something I’ve looked into or given as much thought to. I know it was wonderful for me and I would want to know just how actively, and in what ways, I would be “supporting” PP by having a kid in GS, before I said yes or no. It’s a bummer, though.
“I don’t know, we had some concerns about Boy Scouts too, since the 7-year old is into some culturally “girly” things and there are all kinds of baggage that come with that. ”
Yeah that would be a concern I have with Boy Scouts. Male-dominated organizations do tend to stifle/punish boys who aren’t typically “masculine” or “manly” in some ways. I’ve never seen how “softer” pursuits are something that makes a boy/man “girly” anyway, we’ve had this conversation before and I agree with you. I don’t suddenly lose my XY chromosomes when I do something that’s traditionally “feminine”! I’m glad you found a troop that accepts your son for who he is instead of trying to make him be a “boy”, whatever that means. I think the accepting of gay Scouts (not gay behavior, obviously Scouts still have to abide by the moral code of conduct which includes no premarital sex of any sort) might have been a step in the right direction, instead of punishing people for what isn’t “right”, they are involving them in positive activities. Idk, just some musings.
Yeah GS just seems to be way too supportive of PP on a national level, so I don’t think I could morally justify having my kid in a troop. :/
Lol every time someone talks about people having to be “manly” and such I can’t stop thinking of this song! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSS5dEeMX64
And I like how I knew what song it was before I even clicked on the link ;)
Lol Navi! Once I was arguing with one of the “Red Pillers” on reddit (those are the dudes that are super into gender roles and they HATE women and any man who isn’t “alpha” in the way they define it) and he was like “God you’re not even close to a man”, and I was like “yeah, I’m not as swift as a coursing river, don’t have the force of a great typhoon, or the strength of a raging fire, and I’m not as mysterious as the dark side of the moon”. Lolol.
Yeah, I know well enough to stay away from Reddit. Too many trolls and weirdos for me.
Lol reddit isn’t all bad. If you avoid the main subreddits that the 14 teen year old “edgy” kids hang out in, and if you avoid the smaller subs taken over by bitter old divorced men, you can find a lot of good discussion and such. I mostly just mess around in the satire subs.
Yes – I like the sewing, woodworking, and home DIY subreddits. Reddit is basically like the internet as a whole – there’s a lot of crap and a lot of jerks but there’s some good stuff too.
There’s some incredibly hilarious satire and humor subs on there. Entire subreddits dedicated to making fun of Jezebel and Tumblr (and great mods that delete actual sexism or homophobia), it’s funny. To me at least, I think I have a juvenile sense of humor.
Not yet, Praxedes!
Then referring to your live-in boyfriend’s son as your step-son is untruthful and, I believe, unfair to him and his sibling.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA-g8YYPKVo
Be happy all!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x97Mu940z3w
You too Jack!
Male-dominated organizations do tend to stifle/punish boys who aren’t typically “masculine” or “manly” in some ways.
Where can I get a copy of this list of stifling/punishing male-dominated organizations, Jack?
You’re welcome to believe whatever you’d like, Praxedes. It’s not a grave concern of mine, but I appreciate your input.
FYI he is not my “live-in boyfriend.”
“Where can I get a copy of this list of stifling/punishing male-dominated organizations, Jack? ”
Men tend to police each other quite harshly when it comes to gender stuff. When you get a bunch of guys together sometimes it tends to go pretty rough on boys/men who aren’t always present typically “masculine” personality characteristics or interests. That doesn’t mean all male exclusive or dominated organizations/groups/etc do this, some are better and kinder than others, but there’s that tendency in many of them. I do not know if women do that to each other to the same extent. It is sometimes very rough to have parts of your personality mocked/punished/suppressed because they don’t fit your gender in the way others think it should.
I like the laughing babies lol thank you Prax.
It’s tough, Jack, or at least it’s tough for me – with the scouting or with anything else I think that all you can really do is constantly assess your own feelings and do a gut-check. Like, just a few weeks ago I was in San Antonio on work and I came across these ridiculously adorable little carved-wood toy guns. My first thought ten years ago would have been, “Really?” but my first thought that day was, “The four-year old would go CRAZY for that!” The kid makes guns out of Legos, food, his own hands, etc. He is super, super into epic fantasy battles of good guys versus bad guys, and I see that as a pretty healthy thing, developmentally, even though I bristle at the gun stuff as much as anyone does. So I picked up a couple (I figure, you can’t have just ONE kid in possession of a toy gun – that’s just ASKING for trouble, lol).
But it was not an easy choice, because as some people here may remember, the 7-year old was slated to be in first grade at Sandy Hook Elementary, last year. Which is something that is still basically impossible to even talk about. I mean none of us can even mention that fact without crying, yet; it’s just too enormous. He ended up moving into a neighboring district that summer instead, by the luck of the draw, but it’s all pretty raw and horrific, all the same. Buying a kid a toy gun, no matter how fond my own memories of running around the backyard with my sisters, fighting off bad guys with our cap guns, may be, is a very loaded (no pun intended) decision, here. It’s not one I make very public, and the boys both know that the guns are “at-home only” toys.
Likewise, there are people I know who think it’s horrifying that we put him in Boy Scouts. “Don’t you know what you’re supporting?” they ask. Well, I’m supporting his ability to make pinewood derby cars and go camping and learn knot-tying, from some guys who are pretty decent, strong, reliable role models. It can be hard not to feel like every single decision is incredibly political, and is like a political statement even, but I try not to look at it that way, and try to instead balance what seems best for the kid against what, if anything, gets compromised. And just say, who cares about what anyone thinks.
Well, I’ve noticed that even in families that ban “violent” toys like guns and swords, kids sometimes just make everything a gun or sword, lol! I can’t imagine how that would feel having him so close to Sandy Hook though, my blood runs cold just thinking about it and I’ve never even met the kid. :/
“It can be hard not to feel like every single decision is incredibly political, and is like a political statement even, but I try not to look at it that way, and try to instead balance what seems best for the kid against what, if anything, gets compromised.”
Definitely, the kids are important, not the busybodies who want to question why you made every parenting decision you did. I think the Boy Scouts is overall a positive organization, I think it teaches good morals and has some great goals and role models. They have a couple issues imo though. I just worry my soft-hearted, sweet son who likes to sing and dance around will get that “softer” side knocked right out of him. Boys and men can be quite mean to each other about things like that. I don’t want him as miserable about himself as I was in a lot of situations.
“Then referring to your live-in boyfriend’s son as your step-son is untruthful and, I believe, unfair to him and his sibling.”
LOL
Hi BV I hope you had a nice holiday season!
LOL
It doesn’t surprise me that you are okay with lying and rewriting the definitions of words.
LOL back at ya.
FYI he is not my “live-in boyfriend.”
My bad. I meant the man you are playing house with.
I’m sure the children in this arrangement care more about receiving loving attention from two adults than maintaining the sanctity of a city hall certificate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fahr069-fzE
Positive thinking and building people up!
But I’m pretty sure Alexandra and Mr Alexandra are engaged/life partners and in a serious committed relationship. I am happy for you Alexandra!
I’m pretty sure most kids that have survived the breakup of their parents can smell bs a mile away.
I think that’s a bit assumptive. Your second marriage is still going strong, isn’t it? I believe Alexandra is an intelligent, loving woman is making the best decisions she can for herself and her family, just like you have.
Gosh I’m dumb, I meant presumptive, lol. “Presumed in the absence of further information”.
My husband did not refer to my children as his stepchildren until he was married to me, nor did I. Because they were not.
It’s not presumptive to call someone out on their misconstruing the truth.
Oh good grief. You’re right, Praxedes, kids can smell BS a mile away, whether their parents have divorced or not. Which is why, when we discussed remarriage with them, and what it means (and what it DOESN’T mean), and what a stepmother is and what stepchildren are, and what all this means for our family, the 7-year old asked what would really change, and when we said, “Not too much, on a day to day basis,” asked if he could just be called my stepson “now” rather than waiting some amount of time. I told him that that was fine by me and that if anyone cared enough to be bothered by it then they needed to mind their own business.
Jack – re: Sandy Hook, it still really just makes my blood run cold. For a whole year we had pictures of 7’s Little League up, in the Sandy Hook jerseys, standing there smiling with kids whose lives would change drastically in a few short months. I could hardly stand to walk past those pictures some days but it felt wrong to take them down. I was really glad when last spring’s Little League pictures came out and we could replace the old ones with the current ones. I know that sounds crappy but it was just really hard, to constantly have such reminders around, in the living room and on the fridge. It’s hard to know how to talk to the kids about it, too, because it is so close. They know that someone did something really bad, and that people died. They know that kids died. They don’t really put it all together, though. Beyond that I try to just answer questions when they’re asked, truthfully. 7 knows that the gunman is dead, and that he killed himself – he asked, I answered. (The only time I really skated close to answering untruthfully was when he said, “I bet that he killed himself because he realized what a bad thing he did and he hated himself.” I just said, “Maybe. We will never know why he did anything he did, which is one of the really terrible things about when people die – we never get to know answers to some questions. Even though he did really terrible things, it’s still a shame that he died.” I didn’t really believe it, though. Any of it. I don’t believe he killed himself out of shame or self-hatred and I’m not sorry he’s dead. Oh well. I try.) Their mom won’t take them to Sandy Hook – to the diner, or the playground, or to birthday parties for old Sandy Hook friends – because she can’t deal with it, but we do because it feels important to not just erase their past or their old friends. It’s hard to know what’s best, though.
This will sound melodramatic but at 7’s school, on the morning of the Sandy Hook shooting, he had his winter concert that day. I couldn’t be there so his parents videotaped it for me. Of course, I couldn’t watch it until later that evening, once everything had already happened, and by then we were basically a mess, but the boys really really wanted me to watch and so I set everything aside for a moment and sat down to watch it. It was just really difficult. The concert was at the same time as the shooting, almost – there was a clock off to the side, just visible in the camera frame, and I couldn’t help watching it and seeing it hit the time that they were already claiming the shooter had entered the school. And all I could think was what was going on mere minutes away, the next school over basically, at the very moment those kids were singing so sweetly and doing their little hand-motion dances. No one has really been able to watch the video since. Just, like, two very different mornings, two completely different lives we all might have lived, all down to the whim of when a school district-changing move happened. It’s just stuff like that. It’s hard.
I remember calling the boys’ dad as soon as I heard there was a shooting in Sandy Hook – at the time they thought it was a domestic issue, someone targeting his wife or maybe mother, and I remember it seemed pretty small – I guess it seemed absurd to think that anyone would actually shoot elementary school kids so of course it must have been a personal thing – but I called him anyway because I thought he probably wouldn’t otherwise hear about it, since he gets pretty buried in meetings and conference calls at work. He had only recently gotten to work after the morning concert, and he jumped in the car and headed right back to the school but it was on lockdown already and he couldn’t get in. It was so surreal, he’d only just been there in such a happy, peaceful context and now it was like a military zone, on the outside at least. He went to the daycare to get the then-3-year old but by that point the news reports were suggesting that the shooter was the father of a student, and the poor daycare teachers were terrified of him. They wouldn’t let him in past the vestibule; they eventually brought his son out to the door and let him take him from there. It was just very surreal.
I think the issue is truly about how old the children are when another adult comes into the picture and whether it is a case of divorce or one parent dying. A younger child may want to have the assurance of a “step-mom” or “step-dad” but an adolescent and older is most likely beyond that. If a new partner acts the part and the child is accepting of it why not? :)
Praxedes, I must ask. Is something troubling you right now.?
I do think that some caution is necessary, especially with young kids. My SO and I kept our relationship between us for the first year and a half, until we were essentially ready settle down together and get married, and only then did we introduce me into his kids’ lives. I think that that was best because it was important to both of us that they not see a revolving door of suitors, but also because it started us out on a completely solid and authoritative relationship together as far as the kids ever saw – there was never any of the “early relationship” awkwardness or feeling-each-other-out to get in the way. I was not introduced as their new stepmom or anything like that – not even close! – but I was always treated, by him and thus by them, as an adult who had as much authority as he did, not as a tagalong girlfriend or something. We went like that for about a year before it felt like the right time to bring up marriage and talk with them about what it would mean, what it wouldn’t mean, etc.
They call my mom Grandma, too. Actually they call her GrandmaCat, because my sister’s kids call her that (a play on a nickname of hers) and the name just stuck; but we go to her house about twice a month or so (she lives 20 minutes away and has a yard and a few dogs – yes please). They choose to call her that and I don’t see any reason to stop them from doing so, or to tell them, “You shouldn’t call her that until after your dad and I are married.” She cooks for them, she decorates gingerbread houses with them, she Tivos all the Christmas specials for them, in a pinch she’ll get them at school or take them for a day – she’s their GrandmaCat. Meh to anyone who has a problem with them calling her that.
“. My SO and I kept our relationship between us for the first year and a half, until we were essentially ready settle down together and get married, and only then did we introduce me into his kids’ lives. I think that that was best because it was important to both of us that they not see a revolving door of suitors, but also because it started us out on a completely solid and authoritative relationship together as far as the kids ever saw – there was never any of the “early relationship” awkwardness or feeling-each-other-out to get in the way.”
See this is good. I’ve seen too many parents do the ‘hey this is your new “uncle/aunt” thing over and over, and it totally screws the kids up. The one time I tried to date after I’ve been divorced I certainly didn’t bring my partner around my kids, and that was a good call since it didn’t go anywhere. My ex lives with her boyfriend. I like him but I really do feel like it’s too fast, especially since they have had similar problems to what her and I had. She’s going to anger management, lol, so maybe things will improve though. My kids like her boyfriend, but they just call him by his first name.
“It’s not presumptive to call someone out on their misconstruing the truth.”
I more meant you seem to be making assumptions about the health/state of her relationship, what her children know, etc. I don’t think that’s all that fair.
I hope you are having a nice day.
I can’t even think about the Sandy Hook stuff too long, Alexandra, I can’t imagine how you all feel being so close to it. Thank you for your posts.
Yeah sorry Jack, sometimes I just get on a roll. It’s only recently that I can really even say any of this. Anyway the point is, it was a super complex decision to buy them the stupid toy guns! Not “nerf guns” or “water guns” or toy guns that can plausibly be justified as “active toys” rather than “guns,” but just flat-out little wooden guns, good for nothing but outright gun play. In the end I felt like it was important to differentiate between what guns mean in play and what they mean in real life – to make that distinction for the kids and for myself as well.
Not in the least, JDC. Because I called Alexandria out doesn’t mean there is something wrong with me. But thanks for you concern; hope all is well with you.
Anyone that has read a lot of what I’ve written will realize that I’m very protective of children, especially children who have been through trauma and divorce and divorce and new SO relationships can be traumatic to children. I’m happy to hear Alexandria’s SO’s children were introduced slowly but I still believe it is wrong to call yourself something you are not even at the child’s request (kids request all kinds of things). They are not her step-children and she is not their step-mom yet. Marriage is a big commitment and much different than being engaged or living together. I’ve seen too many children hurt because adults are willing to “play house.” If you go as far as referring to the kids as your stepchildren, why aren’t you married yet? Do you refer to your SO as your husband?
I more meant you seem to be making assumptions about the health/state of her relationship, what her children know, etc. I don’t think that’s all that fair.
My personal opinion is you don’t call any child your stepchild unless that child is actually your stepchild. I see it as a form of playing with children which I don’t see as fair. I don’t believe it is fair to lie to children or others about who you really are. I assumed Alexandria got married because of her lie. Lies can and do cause confusion and hurt and often snowball. I’ve seen similar lies come back and bite adults in the butt and cause more hurt to already hurting children. I’ve talked with children who have been in similar situations and they do figure out the bs and want the adults to be the adults and tell the truth and live the truth. Alexandria denies that her SO is her live-in boyfriend. Well what is he then? Would the term fiance make her feel like the relationship is more committed?
Meh to anyone who has a problem with me standing up for the truth, especially when it comes to innocent children.
No worries Alexandra I appreciated your comments. I just don’t know what to say, I can’t imagine being in that situation. Like I said, my blood runs cold just thinking about it.
“My personal opinion is you don’t call any child your stepchild unless that child is actually your stepchild. I see it as a form of playing with children which I don’t see as fair. I don’t believe it is fair to lie to children or others about who you really are.”
I hear you and I agree to an extent. Like I said, my children refer to their mother’s boyfriend by his name. She made some noises about wanting them to call him “Daddy [his name]” when they first moved in together, which I was not cool with. I don’t know how long they will be together, I don’t want my kids getting hurt further by their possible break-up, especially since their relationship is really reminiscent of the earlier days of our marriage. I don’t want him being called “stepdad” unless they are married and making a commitment for a lifetime thing.
BUT I see Alexandra’s side, it’s her relationship where they are committed for life, haven’t gotten married yet but the kids will have her around forever. It’s a situation where the parents are making a judgment call, and they are doing what they think is best. You don’t have to agree but I think you may not be coming across in a way that’s very polite or would reach her ears very well, if you know what I mean? I think that is what JDC was asking about. I also believe that calling him her “live in boyfriend” or “playing house” isn’t very nice and isn’t positive reinforcement. He’s her fiance, if we’re talking about proper terms I believe that’s what we should call him.
I do appreciate your care for the innocent kids in all types of different situations, it’s admirable and not enough people do that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdB-8eLEW8g
:) I like and care about all of you!
Also I wanted to issue a quick apology to anyone I’ve been rude to on this blog for the last couple months. I know I’ve sniped at you a couple times Prax, and I’m sorry about that. I am really trying to focus on positive reinforcement and building people up, and getting my opinions across in a way that doesn’t attack or hurt people I disagree with. I reread some old comment threads and compared them to my more recent ones and realized I have been sounding bitter and mean lately. I am trying to change my tone and attitude for you all. Just let me know if I am being negative towards you or hurting your feelings so I can change my tone/the way I’m wording comments towards you. I want everyone to feel worthwhile and cared about, even if we’re in the midst of a disagreement!
She made some noises about wanting them to call him “Daddy [his name]” when they first moved in together, which I was not cool with.
My ex and his gf did the same thing. The kids did what the adults expected of them and said things to try to earn adult graces but came home and told me how they truly felt about it. My ex did marry his gfand they were married for 10 plus years. The adult/child relationships were not honest from the get-go and the children have talked to their ex-step-mom zero times since the split several years ago. I have encouraged contact by the children because she was a big part of their life for so many years (and actually did more of the parenting than he did) but they refuse because they felt they were played. I realize this situation is different from Alexandria’s but I really don’t believe it is healthy to refer to a child as your stepchild when s/he is not (this is not to say I don’t believe as you do that she is an intelligent caring woman and I have told her as much in the past).
Alexandria may be making a parental judgement call but I am calling her on it out of concern for the children and ultimately out of my concern for her. I realize I may not be coming across in a very polite way but I am also not being nasty. I am being truthful and sometimes people don’t like hearing the truth and as far as the responses back to me, this seems to be the case here.
He’s her fiance, if we’re talking about proper terms I believe that’s what we should call him.
If there have been proposals and a date set, I will refer to Alexandria’s SO as her fiance. Even she calls him her partner or significant other though so not sure why the term live-in boyfriend isn’t considered very nice. It is at least truthful. Older “stepkids” would have other terms in which to call the live-in partners of their parents which are definitely not nice but can be just as truthful.
I do appreciate your care for the innocent kids in all types of different situations, it’s admirable and not enough people do that.
Thanks Jack! I like and care about y’all here too!
“But thanks for you concern; hope all is well with you.”
Don’t worry, it is.
“My ex and his gf did the same thing. The kids did what the adults expected of them and said things to try to earn adult graces but came home and told me how they truly felt about it. My ex did marry his gfand they were married for 10 plus years. The adult/child relationships were not honest from the get-go and the children have talked to their ex-step-mom zero times since the split several years ago. I have encouraged contact by the children because she was a big part of their life for so many years (and actually did more of the parenting than he did) but they refuse because they felt they were played.”
I don’t blame your children for feeling betrayed/lied to in that situation at all. Your ex and his gf should have been more considerate and honest with them and taken the children’s mental health and stability more seriously.
I don’t want my children to feel like they have to “perform” to make Mommy and boyfriend or Daddy happy. I am trying to teach them that their thoughts and feelings are valid and that mom and dad should respect them. I am trying to teach them honesty and positive things, because they got a rough start and witnessed things children should never have to deal with between their mother and I, she might have been the aggressor in our relationship but I enabled and allowed it for a long time. Before I filed for divorce there was the one incident that made me realize that I wasn’t protecting them from our marital problems like I thought I was, their mother was going to be home from work shortly, I told them to get ready for dinner because Mommy was coming home, and my son burst into tears and told me to “please be good”, so his mother wouldn’t be mad and we could have a nice dinner. It was a huge wake up call for me, because I had managed to convince myself that I was the only one being damaged by our relationship, that I had managed to hide it from the kids. Nope. Kids are smart and like you said, they can detect bs and they don’t believe things are okay and happy when they aren’t. I’ve talked to the kids since then, and apologized to them, and I’m trying to teach them that if something isn’t right, they always have the right to say something. That’s part of my concern with my ex’s new relationship, he’s like my personality double and they are repeating a lot of the same patterns, and I don’t like my kids to be around that again. But my ex is receiving help and her boyfriend is really good to the kids, so I’m hoping that it can be positive. But I refuse to have them manipulated into either being quiet if something isn’t right at Mommy’s house (or Daddy’s house), and I won’t let them be pressured into referring to her boyfriend in a way that isn’t okay with them or me. And to be honest I don’t really like the “Daddy [his name]” things anyway, they have a father, he could be their stepfather one day but we might be able to find something else for him to be called that won’t make them feel like they have to split their loyalties or anything like that I am really worried though, I am not sure the healthiest way to do this for them. :(
“ I realize this situation is different from Alexandria’s but I really don’t believe it is healthy to refer to a child as your stepchild when s/he is not (this is not to say I don’t believe as you do that she is an intelligent caring woman and I have told her as much in the past).”
Like I said I can see your point. Where I see the difference is that they are in a committed relationship that isn’t going anywhere. You don’t have to agree and you definitely should speak up if you don’t think things are kosher, but I believe Alexandra and her Mr have discussed this in an age-appropriate way with the children and been honest with them. If there is one thing that Alexandra has in spades (besides intelligence and compassion), it’s honesty.
I am rather protective of Alexandra btw because I really, really look up to and admire her. It never ceases to amaze me that she can have similar viewpoints and frustrations that I do but always manage to state her view in a kind and compassionate way, far better than I have ever been able to. I try to emulate her in that but I’m clearly not as graceful and tactful. :)
“Alexandria may be making a parental judgement call but I am calling her on it out of concern for the children and ultimately out of my concern for her. I realize I may not be coming across in a very polite way but I am also not being nasty. I am being truthful and sometimes people don’t like hearing the truth and as far as the responses back to me, this seems to be the case here. ”
I do get that and I wouldn’t ever suggest you should say nothing if you have concerns. I do have concerns that your comments are coming across as more aggressive than caring. I do respect you for always speaking your mind, but I think that sometimes when people speak their minds it can cross the line between “needs to be said” and “making people feel attacked”. I am one of the worst offenders at sounding more angry and mean than I truly feel, and I regret that I have let myself be like that and being all “people are mean to me boo hoo poor Jack” instead of trying to look at my own behavior and understand why people react to me so negatively. Like I told Reality, if people have treated me harshly my entire life, I’m the only constant! I need to look at how I am saying things, even when I am being truthful and it’s an important thing I need to get across to someone. I’m not saying you are as bad as me, I am probably the worst offender out of the regular commenters here because I am so oversensitive and whiny, but I think you might want to reread you comments and imagine if someone said the same things to you in the same tone/wording? Might you feel attacked/judged instead of feeling the concern? I am NOT trying to bash on you or insult you at all, I do respect you a lot, I’m just saying my opinion on what I see here, what I think is truthful.
“Even she calls him her partner or significant other though so not sure why the term live-in boyfriend isn’t considered very nice. It is at least truthful. Older “stepkids” would have other terms in which to call the live-in partners of their parents which are definitely not nice but can be just as truthful.”
Maybe you could refer to him as just her partner than? “Playing house” in particular comes across as a bit degrading towards the obvious love and care and commitment that Alexandra and her guy have towards each other. Like I’m saying, sometimes things are truthful but they need to be approached in a certain way so the person you are trying to reach hears you. I’m the king of overreacting to people saying criticism, even when it’s completely warranted and I’m completely in the wrong. Someone says “you are doing this and it’s wrong” with just a hint of sarcasm or rudeness and my brain turns that into “I hate you and you’re the worst person in the world gosh why do you suck so much Jack you should just disappear”. Lol, I’m not even exaggerating, that’s literally what I read when people criticize me and frame it in a way that doesn’t feel uplifting. I’m not saying that you are trying to be mean, or that Alexandra’s anywhere near the oversensitive baby I am, but I think there’s a valid point that we all should look at the words we choose to use towards each other, especially when we are criticizing something as personal and important as parenting choices.
Does any of that make sense? Please let me know if you feel like I am being unfair or rude to you, I’m not trying to be, I’m just trying to state my concerns about this interaction. And I hope that you will consider forgiving me for my part in our prior interactions that have been less than pleasant, I really do regret my unkindness and oversensitivity and I hope that you realize that I don’t have anything against you and it’s my problem that I’m trying to correct, not what you did (though of course you aren’t perfect, none of us are!). :)
Great post, Jack.
I have looked over the posts on this thread (I’m scared to look at some of my old ones!) My initial post on this thread in regards to this topic was this and only this:
Then referring to your live-in boyfriend’s son as your step-son is untruthful and, I believe, unfair to him and his sibling.
I think my statement was to the point and truthful. Not nasty in the least imo but straightforward about my beliefs.
Yes, my posts did get more aggressive but not abusive. However, if you re-read the posts, you will see that I only gave back as good as I got though.
I don’t think you are being at all unfair or rude to me and I truly respect your feelings of protection for Alexandria. My heart is in the exact same place for her and the children that have become an important part of her life. I do feel some obligation to point out what I believe is currently damaging to Alexandria and her family and will only become more so down the line.
Forgiveness totally given, Jack. Please forgive me as well for anything unkind I have said in the past to you and others. The Good Lord knows how far from perfect I am and how many countless mistakes I make daily!
“I have looked over the posts on this thread (I’m scared to look at some of my old ones!)”
Lol I don’t like looking at a lot of my old posts either, particularly from the last six or so months. I really did start getting really negative and sarcastic and bitter.
“I think my statement was to the point and truthful. Not nasty in the least imo but straightforward about my beliefs.”
No it wasn’t nasty but it was a bit jarring. I think the issue is that you didn’t explain what exactly you saw as unfair about it. I do this thing where I make statements I think are blatantly obvious, but I didn’t explain myself correctly so people make assumptions based on them that I didn’t intend to get across at all. I think that’s part of what happened there, is that instead of understanding what you intended, people were left to puzzle it out if that makes sense? I personally read it and was like “hmmm?”, and didn’t get what you were trying to convey at all. I can be a little dim lol so that might just be me, but it is one of the problems communicating online, is that no one can see body language or other nonverbal cues and it’s hard to get a message across correctly without being very specific.
“Yes, my posts did get more aggressive but not abusive. However, if you re-read the posts, you will see that I only gave back as good as I got though.”
Yeah I don’t think you were abusive, just maybe a tad aggressive. I do agree that maybe people could have tried to find out what you were trying to convey instead of blowing it off, things tend to snowball when there’s no real understanding.
“I don’t think you are being at all unfair or rude to me and I truly respect your feelings of protection for Alexandria. My heart is in the exact same place for her and the children that have become an important part of her life. I do feel some obligation to point out what I believe is currently damaging to Alexandria and her family and will only become more so down the line.”
Of course! And everyone should speak up if they feel like something isn’t kosher. I have no complaints with you saying what you believe is right, I just think your message got lost.
“Forgiveness totally given, Jack. Please forgive me as well for anything unkind I have said in the past to you and others. The Good Lord knows how far from perfect I am and how many countless mistakes I make daily!”
I forgive you! People do tend to think I’m just bitter and dramatic (which is my fault for coming across badly, usually) but I’m really not the type to hold grudges against anyone but myself! I hope you aren’t too hard on yourself about your mistakes. I have a new therapist and he had me do an exercise this weekend where I carried around a little notebook and pen and every negative thought I had about myself or other people, on different pages, I had to write down what the negative thought was. I stopped by lunch because my hand hurt, I had hundreds of negative thoughts, about 80% about me and 20% about others. The weird thing is most of my negative thoughts toward other people wasn’t anything bad about them, it was how I perceived they felt about me. “That person in line at the grocery store didn’t smile back at me, she probably thinks I’m some loser”, that kind of thing. It’s awful, I literally have zero positive self image, which makes me more negative towards others. When he had me write out my positive traits versus negative traits I had one positive thing I could think of, which is that I’m patient and loving towards my kids, versus dozens of bad things I can think about me. Gotta work on that. People are welcome and I encourage them to call me out if I’m being negative about other people or even myself (though people shouldn’t give me a break if I’m doing something wrong). People should be treated kindly, just because I’m not happy doesn’t mean that I should be unkind.
I have a new therapist and he had me do an exercise this weekend where I carried around a little notebook and pen and every negative thought I had about myself or other people, on different pages,
I might have to try this! I think I may need a big notebook though rather than a small one!
I may have told you one of the exercise my counselor gave me was to look in the mirror several times a day and actually talk to yourself outloud and tell yourself that you are a great person, you are loved, valuable, and other positive affirmations. Seems corny until you get used to it. You might not want to do it if you have company though because they might make a call to the straitjacket folks! People might start giving you change if you do it in a public restroom though! :)
Yeah you have told me that. I have tried similar things but I feel like I’m just lying to myself lol. My therapist said though that we believe what we focus on the most, so if I’m constantly, constantly thinking about how I’m the worst person ever born in the history of mankind I’m just reinforcing negative messages that I received since I was a kid and while I was married. And people who hate themselves don’t make good parents, and they don’t make for pleasant friends, so it’s really something I need to fix. And it’s miserable to not like yourself much, I would like to not be miserable at some point lol.
Good chat! I hope next time we bump heads we can remember this and try to understand each other better and come across in positive ways even when we disagree!
Oh for goodness sake. Yes, Praxedes, I am making a parental judgment call. Yes, we are engaged, but no, calling him my fiance would not “make me feel like the relationship is more committed,” so I don’t usually use the word, as it just feels weird to me. He’s been my partner for a long time and that’s just what I call him. No one has ever asked the kids to call me anything; they call me by my first name and I honestly don’t really want or need that to change for any reason. I don’t call them “stepson” to their face any more than a parent calls his child “daughter,” but it is the word that best describes who they are to me and who I am to them, so when I am discussing them in a situation where using their names is not appropriate, it’s the word I use – at their request. And yes, children request all sorts of things. I say no to the stupid or dangerous ones but when it comes to things like this, I don’t consider that either stupid, dangerous, or particularly damaging.
Your dig about “older stepkids” having “less nice” names to call their parents’ “live in girlfriends” who are just “playing house” is cute but not relevant here for about two dozen reasons. I don’t anticipate easy times as they get older, but they have been held to higher standards their whole lives than to demean and insult people, even in situations where they for some reason feel they have license to, and moreover disrespect of authority figures is not permitted any more than it is in an intact family, or I assume in yours. Kids call their parents terrible names too so I am not counting on sainthood from them, but your characterization says more about you than it does about me or my family.
We are in the car now, driving a few states away to help move my partner’s brother into his new apartment. He has some significant mental challenges and has never lived alone, but it’s time to begin easing him into the transition, as their mother won’t live forever and it will be a long time before he qualifies for assisted living. So I might not respond immediately to anything. Jack, I haven’t had a chance to read everything you wrote yet but I’m sure it was too kind for anything I deserve! I will read it when we get in later tonight.
My comment about the older “stepkids” wasn’t meant as a dig anymore than referring to your partner/fiance as your live-in boyfriend was meant to be a dig. Take it as you will but I am discussing fact and reality common in situations like your own. The fact is that you are not a stepparent and they are not your stepkids. Period. To refer to them as such here or anywhere says a lot about your choices and views of your situation whether you admit it or not.
but they have been held to higher standards their whole lives
Not if they are being taught to play out lies.
and moreover disrespect of authority figures is not permitted
Disrespect may indeed not be permitted by said authority figure(s) but I can guarantee you that true respect will need to be earned.
When is the wedding date?
Yes, respect has to be earned. It’s amazing what you think you know about my family to even imply that we have not earned the appropriate respect of the kids. For all you obsess over “discussing reality common in situations” you haven’t said a single thing relevant to anything I’ve said about my situation. You’ve used the entire conversation as a chance to inject your own preferred phrases and predictions, which – again – can only say anything about you. You keep talking about kids detecting BS and you completely ignore what I’m telling you when I say they would think YOU’RE full of it. In their lives they have already unfortunately learned that marriage changes some things and not others. They know that marriage does not grant family titles like mom or dad. They know that a stepmom is “basically like me, just married to their dad.” They know that their dad and I are getting married. I’m not going to sit there and insist on semantic technicalities until this specific time on this specific day, when they serve – and interest – no one in my life.
There is no date yet but you probably won’t be among the first to know when we settle on one.
Your intentions seem good and I appreciate that, but I am done with your consistent assertions that nothing really to do with my life.
They know that a stepmom is “basically like me, just married to their dad.”
Right. But you are not married to their dad — big difference. The facts are you are the woman sleeping with their dad and pretending to be their stepmom. And even at a young age, the majority of kids see right through fake. You are setting up your own destiny.
There is no date yet but you probably won’t be among the first to know when we settle on one
Why not? Do you always push people away that disagree with you? I must have struck a big nerve. Truth hurts Alexandria. I have no doubt your blatant anger spills over into other areas of your life. Stupid is as stupid does. And I personally know how stupid it is to play house.
You know nothing about “my blatant anger” (lol) or basically any areas of my life, Praxedes. I could say the same about you, though your relative restraint here compared to how nasty you’ve been to me in past conversations is somewhat surprising, I admit. You probably WON’T be among the first to know when we pick a date, and it’s not an angry or a mean thing to say. Your approval matters about as much as your disapproval does. If you’ve taken this personally somehow, I apologize.
We have no date set yet because shortly after we got engaged and I moved in, I went to work on the road for over two months, as I already told you elsewhere; I returned about ten days ago. The longer story of this is that there is a prestigious professional track involving a two-year apprenticeship, which is given out based on the results of a professional exam. This exam comes around every four years or so and is only given to the first 300 applicants. Of those 300, the top 40 scores are awarded an apprenticeship that lasts two years and that sets up a pretty decent professional skill-set and job network for basically the rest of your life. I took this exam when it was last offered and I scored in the top ten for my year, but they had a backlog in apprenticeships so they did not even begin placing my year until November. Which means that my apprenticeship will be coming up at some point in the next 8 months, unexpectedly but mercifully. This was much longer than I had planned on “getting by” as I waited on this job, hence the need to take incredibly life-disruptive work like spending 2.5-months traveling to a different city every week. There are no days off in these jobs; if you can’t do the full commitment you can’t do any of it. And due to the financial strain caused by the delay in apprenticeship openings, there’s a good chance I will need to take another short-term road job when one comes up (2-3 months is considered short-term; full-term is 12-18 months). I won’t know until it’s offered, and it won’t be offered more than a month in advance of the job itself. It’s not an ideal situation but if it is the stop-gap measure we need, then it’s what I’ll do; still, this kind of life makes big plans somewhat difficult to set in stone. It’s why I am working very hard to set up a job and a life that is more secure and stable, and these last 6-8 months are the final sprint before I can get there. Scheduling a wedding is one of many things that are on hold in our lives until my life settles down to the point where I know for sure that I will be here next month, or two months from now, or three. It’s not the year we anticipated but it is a year we are getting through.
There is nothing “pretend” or “play” about my life. I am not pretending anything that I am to these kids, and we are not “playing house.” We are a family, and a partnership, struggling and getting by and loving it, and your continued insistence that it is all pretend, play, that it is all about “sleeping with” people and “not earning respect,” and that kids “have nasty names” for people like me, is tiresome and is really nothing more than some ideological war you want to hash out, rather than anything that actually pertains to my life.
I didn’t say it was all about sleeping with their dad. Some of it is about having sex with him too. And raising children who are not witnessing the importance of marriage to a family. And adults who make marriage about when it works for them but still refer to the children as stepchildren when they are not.
My best wishes that you find time to squeeze in a wedding into your busy life. My gut tells me that it’s just not that big of a priority to either you and/or your partner. Children learn what they live.
Peace Alexandria.
There you go, Praxedes. Your desperate insistence on talking about anything except my actual life. My life, at home, is about making lunches, and picking them up at daycare, and cooking dinners that everyone will probably whine about eating, and getting shoes on in time, and keeping mittens in pairs, and beating the super hard bad guys in wii games, and teaching how to kick in the pool, and crying and hugging on the couch when the guinea pig bites it, and standing in the parking lot for hours on end slowing cars, blocking off a safe route for bike rides. You know nothing of my life or the deliberation that has gone into it and you clearly do not want to.
A wedding is not as big a priority for us as some of our more pressing concerns like rent, a long-overdue raise, or where I will physically BE next month or the month after, it’s true. But I can only hope that these children do learn what they live, which is love and respect and hard work and doing the best you can.
Your focus seems too be on the wedding. Mine is on the marriage which doesn’t seem important to you or SO at all.
I’m not really sure where you get that, from anything I’ve said. My focus is pretty exclusively on our relationship, always has been and always will be. By that I mean our relationship as a couple and as a family. It’s a wedding that is pretty inconsequential to me. You are all over the place, claiming my priorities are too muddled (ie by pragmatic concerns like finances and physical location) to fit a wedding into the next month of my life, and then claiming I worry too much about the wedding. I don’t really care too much about weddings, never have. We’ve been oriented towards and consciously making every decision in support of our eventual marriage since well before I ever entered his kids’ lives.
I get that from your lengthy paragraph where you make excuses for why you can’t fit a wedding in.
The lengthy paragraph where I share relatively personal information, on your request, all about how getting through a tough few months is way more important to me than a wedding? That tells you that weddings are too important to me? Okay.
A wedding is not as big a priority for us as some of our more pressing concerns like rent, a long-overdue raise, or where I will physically BE next month or the month after, it’s true.
That is clear. So stop acting like your boyfriend’s kids are your stepkids.
A marriage license costs very little. Maybe marriage left a bad taste in your boyfriend’s mouth and he’s in no rush to have another wife. After all, he has someone to do all this for him and his kids and he didn’t even have to spend $25 bucks to marry her:
making lunches, and picking them up at daycare, and cooking dinners that everyone will probably whine about eating, and getting shoes on in time, and keeping mittens in pairs, and beating the super hard bad guys in wii games, and teaching how to kick in the pool, and crying and hugging on the couch when the guinea pig bites it, and standing in the parking lot for hours on end slowing cars, blocking off a safe route for bike rides.
I take it back. You’re the stepmom alright. Without having the benefit of being his wife.
We’ve been oriented towards and consciously making every decision in support of our eventual marriage since well before I ever entered his kids’ lives.
But yet there is no date set. Seems to me that you are the one all over the place.
all about how getting through a tough few months is way more important to me than a wedding?
how long have you been with your boyfriend?
Oh, good, more completely random insults and assumptions that don’t take into account anything I’ve written – I needed the “he gets a stepmom for his kids and he didn’t even need to marry you yet” one for a while now, I’ve almost got bingo. Lol no, he didn’t have to buy a marriage license (prior to 8:56 am on 1/12/14 at least), just support me through a stretch of unemployment, help maintain my mom’s house with me, and stuff like that. He’s pretty psyched to be getting married. We have been together about three years. As I said before, we spent the first year and a half very cautious. We were both clear on not wanting a relationship that was not geared towards marriage but we both knew it would not be a fast or easy situation and we felt a responsibility to make sure that we were completely solid on what our relationship was before introducing anyone else. The earlier part of this process was where we discussed – at length – any possible “bad tastes” about marriage after divorce, exactly how they might affect us and how we could work with the reality of each other’s pasts and emotions. When we felt there was no reason to wait anymore (ie no hesitation about the permanence of our relationship; and we felt the first big transition – selling the old home and moving to the new ones, which came quite a while after the actual divorce due to housing market stuff – had settled for the kids a bit, etc) we brought me into his kids’ lives, and for the next year we adjusted to that transition in ways I suppose you would call “not earning respect” but I would call “taking on increasing parental and emotional responsibilities.” After a year of that we decided there was no reason to wait longer to get married, so we talked to the kids about what that would entail and what remarriage would mean for us, for them, and told our families, etc. Shortly after that my job situation got unexpectedly, but temporarily, harder and I eventually had to leave for 2.5 months to take the job that alleviated some of the financial burden. Eleven days ago I came back home.
So no, there is no date set as of this morning. I’ll soon be out of the country on another crappy but lucrative job for a few weeks and then probably have downtime for a few weeks more but I’m not sure yet, so in the few days since I’ve been home we haven’t yet chosen a date and scheduled a wedding. I would like my sisters and his mother to be there, if possible, so I’d like to have 4-6 weeks’ notice because flights can get expensive and I would like to give them all as much opportunity as possible to be here while not making themselves financially uncomfortable. It IS all over the place, I am not but this right-now moment in my life and our lives is, unexpectedbly – that’s what I’ve been saying all along – for a relatively temporary period of time my work schedule (which we depend on) went completely haywire and so we don’t have a date set yet.
Three years?
I have taken into account EVERYTHING you have written. You should maybe take a step back, take a deep breath and really reread all the posts between us — several times maybe, slowly. And then you should Get Real and stop killing the messenger.
The truth about your situation is written all over your word choices, excuses and defensiveness. FYI – tough months come along during the marriage too. And people get married all the time and have the gathering(s) celebrations at a later date.
In your eyes, I am just randomly insulting you. Please consider the possibility that it might just be that I’m the one who is being straight up with you. I’m not the pal that will just say what you want to hear to keep the peace.
I’m not “killing” anyone and I don’t know why you think I need to “take a deep breath,” but yes, as has been pointed out before, your repeated and consistent phrasing of things like “playing house,” “all about sleeping together and having sex,” etc, particularly after I’ve shared some of the things about my life such as the financial or pragmatic struggles of keeping our household afloat recently etc, is basically nothing but insulting, and pretty random when taking into account everything I’ve told you. I’ve answered the questions you’ve asked and done little else. I certainly haven’t made a single comment or assumption about any relationship, motivation, or underlying motive in your life, for example.
I said previously that I appreciate your concern or your intentions. I meant it. I do not appreciate the insults, the desperate casting about for the next culture-war trope to throw into the mix (the wedding matters too much to you! it doesn’t matter enough! you’re only in this thing to sleep with and have sex with this guy! okay, well, maybe you’re not JUST there for that after all but then look at all this stuff he’s getting “for free!” etc). I don’t have any pals who will say what I want to hear just to keep the peace and I wouldn’t keep any such people around. I trust my own judgment, I trust the people I’ve surrounded myself with – including my mother, my partner, his mother, the family therapist his children visited for a while, and to some extent my partner’s ex-wife, who is the mother of the children I am lucky enough to help parent and who therefore matters quite a bit when it comes to these things – and I find your fixation on the exact date of my TBD wedding (not to mention your weirdly vulgar interjections and speculations about what my life and relationship are about) to hold pretty little weight when measured against everything else that informs my decisions and my actions. I’ve read everything you said and I’ve appreciated your willingness to share it but I do not appreciate your continued insistence that you know me, my partner, the kids, my relationship, my life, or our motivations better than I do.
just support me through a stretch of unemployment, help maintain my mom’s house with me, and stuff like that.
Daycare ain’t cheap!
You know what Alexandria? No one forced you to answer any of my questions or respond to me at all for that matter. I only know what you have freely told me and responded in kind.
If you don’t refer to your live-in boyfriend as your husband, you sure shouldn’t be calling his children your stepchildren. You could have avoided the whole conversation by admitting you were wrong by calling his children your stepchildren.
As it stands, I’ve learned a lot about you and your life.
“And people get married all the time and have the gathering(s) celebrations at a later date.”
And for some people, elopement cheapens the whole marital enterprise. The couple risks alienating family members who, understandably, want to be present for the ceremony. I’d rather use a “technically incorrect” term for my partner’s kids for a little while than irrevocably hurt my parents and siblings.
“Daycare ain’t cheap!”
Yeah. As if Alexandra were watching the kids all day while Bub there plays Wii and gets hammered with the guys.
You seem to think a marriage certificate holds some kind of totemic power – that any relationship built on mutual emotional, financial and practical support (i.e. Alexandra’s) couldn’t possibly be meaningful unless the couple has a certificate in hand, or that that a man who insists on a ring couldn’t possibly be nasty or abusive after exchanging his vows.
This is really all about people having sex when they’re not supposed to. There’s really no point in defending a loving and committed non-marital relationship from your medieval aspersions because, according to this worldview, all women who consent to sex before marriage are fools or whores – a belief that, historically, has had as much or more to do with property rights (read: women considered the property of their fathers and husbands) than with morality.
You seem to think a marriage certificate holds some kind of totemic power – that any relationship built on mutual emotional, financial and practical support (i.e. Alexandra’s) couldn’t possibly be meaningful unless the couple has a certificate in hand, or that that a man who insists on a ring couldn’t possibly be nasty or abusive after exchanging his vows.
The signs of someone being abusive are there during the dating process if you are willing to honestly assess your situation. If marriage doesn’t mean anything to you, don’t get married but don’t pretend you are a spouse and mother when you are not. If you want to hear a few horror stories of women getting financially screwed over because there was no marriage license, let me know.
This is really all about people having sex when they’re not supposed to
Yup. Alexandria would have absolutely zero reason to be upset if she finds out her boyfriend is having sex with someone else. Who are you or her to say he’s not supposed to have sex whenever and with whomever he wants. She isn’t married to him.
and to some extent my partner’s ex-wife, who is the mother of the children
I absolutely cannot imagine that she would be okay with you referring to the children as your stepchildren unless she doesn’t give a squat about her kids. It is not in their best interest.
”If you want to hear a few horror stories of women getting financially screwed over because there was no marriage license, let me know.”
Maybe Alexandra wouldn’t need the alimony as badly as an uneducated sad sack with no marketable job skills who’s always relied on men financially. I think she’d be fine should the relationship fail to work. It’s also poor form and bad luck to talk about the dissolution of a relationship that has barely begun.
“I absolutely cannot imagine that she would be okay with you referring to the children as your stepchildren unless she doesn’t give a squat about her kids. It is not in their best interest.”
You’re all over the place. First this was about the kids, then it’s about Alexandra’s finances, now it’s back to the kids. Sounds like concern trolling to me. You’re so protective of children that you’ve indoctrinated yours into a religion that a) won’t allow women to hold leadership positions, and b) has literally proven, countless times, that it can’t handle the responsibility of vetting its ranks of child molesters. Come, now. What’s more damaging?
Hey, Alexandria. You got BV in your corner. That may reassure you immensely. After all, she is the Queen of Rationalizing.
BV, Women seldom are given alimony anymore but when they are, do you believe that the courts are wrong when they find that a woman’s contributions are financially worth something? Not all women are willing to off their offspring in order to make more money.
I hold a leadership position in my church. What position do you hold in yours?
It’s also poor form and bad luck to talk about the dissolution of a relationship that has barely begun
Says you? I personally don’t believe good relationships thrive on luck. But then again maybe the dissolution of your relationship with the father of your baby was due to those who talked about your relationship and not to any other factors like say, I don’t know, the fact that you paid to kill the child you and he created together.
P.S. The Boy Scouts are not a religion.
P.S.S. Don’t hate me because I’m Catholic.
And for some people, elopement cheapens the whole marital enterprise.
Sometimes I really wonder if she is for real.
concern trolling?
Never heard of it but I believe being concerned for others is a good thing. It beats the unconcerned trolling that you do, Megs.
If a woman chose to have sex with Alexandria’s boyfriend, would she be a fool or a whore? Or maybe she’d just be an educated, progressive woman doing what smart women do.
“Women seldom are given alimony anymore but when they are, do you believe that the courts are wrong when they find that a woman’s contributions are financially worth something? Not all women are willing to off their offspring in order to make more money.”
Of course I believe the contributions of the caregiver (who might not necessarily be mom) are important. But this is not relevant in any way to Alexandra’s current situation.
“I hold a leadership position in my church. What position do you hold in yours?”
Oh, I forgot. Public high school rabblerouser. Very important.
“I personally don’t believe good relationships thrive on luck.”
Apparently you believe they thrive on suspicion and fear.
“Sometimes I really wonder if she is for real.”
Weddings aren’t just for the couple, but for their families. Personally, I want my parents to be present on my marriage day. It’s only respectful.
But this is not relevant in any way to Alexandra’s current situation.
Then why did you bring it up?
Public high school rabblerouser.
LOL. Yeah the position I hold in my church is at a public high school. Seriously though, I don’t even work in a high school anymore.
I think I will have to break up with you as I did with Reality, BV. Please don’t take it too personally. It’s not you, it’s me.
Oh I get it. You assumed I received alimony after my divorce. You assumed wrong. I never requested it in spite of me more than likely being a strong candidate for it. I have a good friend who did receive alimony though and anyone who would begrudge her of that, has some real issues with divorced parents who were homemakers and raised children.
Actually, to be honest with you, our breakup is because of you. I don’t trust or respect you so there’s not much to base a healthy relationship on. Best of luck with your future relationships.
Oh, and as I child, I would have never trusted a woman who let me talk her into me calling her my stepmom even though she wasn’t even married to my dad.
Kids are smart.
Marriage day? Who says that? She cannot be for real. Otherwise, she should ask for the money back that she spent on college.
“I have a good friend who did receive alimony though and anyone who would begrudge her of that, has some real issues with divorced parents who were homemakers and raised children.”
Childcare ain’t cheap.
It’s over, BV. Let me go. . . .
Well this isn’t a very positive and uplifting conversation.
Wedding day. My bad.
Maybe I should have also called you out long ago on referring to our fellow commenter as Alexandria when her name is Alexandra.
Well this isn’t a very positive and uplifting conversation.
Conversations that begin by calling out a lie usually aren’t.
To remain deluded is a choice.
Daycare ain’t cheap!
Charming, Praxedes. Apparently you think that “daycare” (you know, routine family routines and obligations that people perform out of both love and duty, to say nothing of the fun stuff like being Wii champion of the world) costs “$25” before it is somehow worth anything at all, so again I’m not really sure what you’re on about. I’m not really sure what happened to this conversation as a whole, really, but somewhere around the time where you said that I would have no reason to be upset or surprised if my partner started sleeping with someone else, it went pretty off the rails, and I don’t see too much point in even trying to figure out what you’re going on about at this point.
As you said, no one forced me to answer your questions, and I don’t feel forced in any way. I don’t regret anything I’ve shared because I am pretty comfortable with my life and with waiting to get married until I can give my absolute closest family members a few weeks’ notice. I do feel, as I have said a few times now, unappreciative of your repeated insistence on using every single thing I’ve shared with you as another wacky turn to try to insult, completely at odds with every single one of your previous insults. If it’s not all about sex, then I’m just free daycare, and if I’m not free daycare, well then that’s because daycare ain’t cheap. As though it is somehow more honorable and dignified to sit there and say, “Hey dude, for another two months, that pile of puke-stained sheets is YOUR problem, not mine!” What a wonderful, uplifting view of love and family you have. I sure do wish I shared your outlook on the world. Oh well.
Your bull about how this conversation got so ugly because no one can handle your insistence on the “truth” is pretty tiresome, though. It is ugly specifically and explicitly because you repeatedly and consistently have said ugly, vulgar, demeaning things, with no provocation. There is no reason to call the difficult and rewarding life we are struggling to build and maintain “playing house,” there is no reason to say that my relationship is all about “sleeping with some sex,” there is no need to call me “daycare.” These are not lies that you’re calling out or even lies that you could plausibly even believe you are calling out. They are nothing but random insults. These are your choices, and they are not reciprocated by me, nor have they been, despite your repeated claims that I am the one who just can’t handle what you’re saying and I’m exploding in blatant anger, or something. I really take no issue with you being bothered by me referring to the kids as step-kids and I have been pretty clear on that from the beginning of this whole conversations.
Its the beginning of a brand new week of our lives. May it be a good one!!!
“Its the beginning of a brand new week of our lives. May it be a good one!!!”
Technicality, doesn’t the week begin on Sunday?
I rest on Sundays JDC so for me it begins on Mondays :)
Truth is Alexandra is that you are not a stepparent but call yourself one and allow children to call you one. Truth is you are living and sleeping with a man who is not your husband. Consider yourself his wife if you so choose. Change the definition of spouse if you so choose. Truth is you take offense to my pointing out the truth. Truth is there are those here who support your taking insult to being called out on your lie. Continue to feel insulted by me. It’s your choice.
With that said, I’m choosing to have a great week! And I hope you may choose to do the same!
I really take no issue with you being bothered by me referring to the kids as step-kids and I have been pretty clear on that from the beginning of this whole conversations.
Yup. Who cares if you lie? The kids have already figured you out.
Wow, Praxedes, you really like this conversation. Feel free to rewind and replay your favorite and most gloriously off-the-mark hits for as long as you’d like, cycling endlessly through the various ways that you insist that you know things about a) me, b) my partner, and c) his kids, such as how we feel about each other, what our motivations are for our behaviors towards each other, what our obligations to each other are, and what our levels of care and respect for each other are. If you have anything new to say I might respond to it but otherwise, consider this your very own padded room to bounce around in.
Have fun with your great week!