AL Democrat: GOP would make daughters abort black babies
Ninety-nine percent of the all of the white people in here are going to raise their hand that they are against abortion.
On the other hand, 99 percent of the whites who are sitting in here now, if their daughter got pregnant by a black man, they are going to make their daughter have an abortion. They ain’t going to let her have the baby….
Now listen, you know the truth sometimes hurts….
She’s got two other white children, and then she’s going to have a little black baby, going to be running around there in the living room, in the den with the rest of them.
They’re not going to let that happen. You know that and I know that. You will never admit it. You know that and I know that.
~ Alabama State Rep. Alvin Holmes (D–Montgomery), speaking Tuesday during a debate on Alabama’s pro-life “heartbeat” bill, as quoted by The Raw Story, March 5
According to the article, Holmes “made news last month when he called U.S. Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas an ‘Uncle Tom’….”
Audio at link.
[Photo via blog.al.com]

Hmm, as a mixed-race pro-lifer I’m just amused by this one.
I will say it’s a racist generalization though, and completely untrue.
I have to admit, I’m always relieved when it isn’t one of our guys saying something really stupid for a change.
Navi
Yes your side really has a bad record of saying stupid things. But it is probably easier saying stupid things when your line of politics is stupid.
Um, I’m not sure what he’s saying. It SEEMS like what he’s saying is that abortion should be kept legal, if for no other reason, then specifically so that white girls can abort black babies. As a white girl with three mixed-race cousins, I object to his characterization of white people generally; and as a speaker of English and serial debater I object to his abuse of logic and the rhetorical arts.
So beside the fact that he is a complete RACIST…
He is kinda making our point. Abortion targets black babies! Abortion is racist! Abortion is about eugenics!!
Thank you sir for PROVING OUR POINT.
And for the record, true pro-lifers don’t believe in abortion for ANY reason. Not disability, not gender, not skin-color, not conception circumstances.
Yeah honey, the truth does sometimes hurt.
So let’s re-direct your little diatribe and focus on the truth…. The truth that abortion kills babies and it should be illegal to kill gestating human beings.
Ouch, amirite?
Sydney M:
Some months ago a woman, being a tourist in India, was raped by six men so badly that she later died from her injuries. While being raped, she could she her boyfriend being beaten to death with iron poles by those who not were at the moment raping her. If she had become pregnant and survived, I think she would have really loved to go through that pregnancy.
I am glad you “pro lifers” once again prove my point: that you do not define women as life.
Christine, which of us here wants to take the lives of 500,000 women this year, and the next year, and the year after that? Just because they aren’t as big as you or visible to you doesn’t mean they don’t exist. Your pointed words and angry comments can not distract from that reality, and the only reason such death continues is because you and others continue to throw your little sisters under the bus, and for what?
You’d think that a Black legislator would support a pro-life bill, to protect black children from being killed by racists.
You’d think that a feminist would support a pro-life bill that would prevent the gendercide of infant girls.
You’d think that homosexual activists would support pro-life bills that would protect developing children from being killed for having a “gay gene” marker.
But…. most oddly….. all of these groups imagine that pro-lifers secretly want to kill the Blacks and gays and girls, and so they use these as examples for why we all need to have easy access to abortion.
Insanity.
Chris
Because we are adult women with the right to make choices about our lives. A right that “pro lifers” want to take away.
If you do not like abortion, do not have one. It is as simple as that.
Well let me saying that whenever I would protest in the suburbs indeed a lot of white people would say the most awful things. Too vulger to put on the blog. Anyway one day I was holding the sign of the aborted fetal head when a nice looking teen boy rode past me on his bike. He hit the breaks and peddaled back to me. He asked me “Now if your daughter were to become pregnant from a ( the N word ) would you want her to keep it?” Without allowing me to even answer he rode away fast.
Oops my above post should say let me start by saying….but the white people I had come across were the absolute worst. They would get out of their cars and try to grab our signs. Screaming ” Go home!” In other words they want to HAVE their abortions but they dont want to SEE their sin. The police would swarm us because upset people were calling city hall and the police.
Heather, which sin?
The sin of child murder we dress up and call it abortion!
Christine…my step children and my son are cousins to Amanda Berry…one of the 3 girls held captive by Castro. Amanda has a daughter from Castro raping her but that is HER daughter! She just turned 7 on Christmas day and I saw her Christmas pics. I do live in Cleveland.
Don’t like robbery, then don’t rob? Don’t wanna dust the dinosaur droppings off your pro-abortion argument? Or are you going to tell us that we want to save children’s lives because we hate sex so much? Or, you could tell us women are not incubators? Or, I always get a chuckle out of “you people think masturbation is murder.” Did I leave anything out?
Just what part of PRO and LIFE do abortions fans not understand?!
It was my understanding that Amanda wanted to get her daughter out of that house because she was afraid Castro would start raping her soon. The other girls were getting older. It is possible to love a baby from a brutal rape because Amanda loves her daughter. Castro is now dead.
Hi 9ek…I had a chuckle on facebook the other day where many inept pro choicers told me every time i get my period im aborting!! Lol are they serious?
Dont like rape? Dont rape anyone…duuuuur
To me, the really scary thing is that people apparently actually voted for this guy. I mean, maybe he was saying things quite this stupid on the campaign trail, but I’m sure there were hints.
Christine: If you don’t like granting basic human rights to all human beings, then move to China. It’s as simple as that.
I resent the fact that I was banned 3 times from fb for debating pro deathers. One girl told me she would come and shoot me yet she wasnt banned. BUT say one true thing about abortion and youre booted.
It is possible to love a rape child but it is not possible to force someone to do it.
You “pro lifers” think you have some mission from god to save unborn children. But you lose interest the minute they are born.
And I am not a fan of abortion; I am a fan of the right to choose.
If I miscarry, my body told me to abort. If I have an induced abortion, my mind told me to. Oh, I forgot, “pro lifers” see women as mindless.
Just yesterday I was talking to a 26 year old girl who told me she had to have a hysterectomy. I asked her why? She hesitated at first..hung her head and said ” I had an abortion and almost bled to death. I guess I got what I deserved in a way.” I told her ” Honey just ask Jesus to forgive you and he will.” She told me she has a lawsuit against Preterm…i used to protest there. I told her ” I hope you sue those butchers and win.” Tell me God doesnt put people in our paths for a reason. She has 2 kids and Preterm told her to have an abortion because her baby had something wrong with him and wouldnt live anyway.
Mindless?????? Well where is your mind if you are taking a risk of getting pregnant if you dont WANT a baby?
You’d think that a Black legislator would support a pro-life bill, to protect black children from being killed by racists.
Most black legislators are from the left-wing of the Democratic party and follow the party line blindly. Then they’re in church on Sunday screaming and shouting. It’s ridiculous.
I think I mentioned that my son’s girlfriend’s father said some pretty racist things about his mixed race grandchildren, but it looks like he’s coming around now. When he saw his newborn granddaughter he started to cry and apologized. I am sure that there are some racist white people that would want their daughters to abort if they were carrying a black child, but here in Philly I often see older white people with young mixed race children who I assume are their grandchildren, so apparently not all feel that way.
You “pro lifers” think you have some mission from god to save unborn children. But you lose interest the minute they are born.
First of all, Christine, not all prolifers are religious. Deluded Liberal Prolifer and some others here are atheists. There is even an organization called Secular Prolife. Google it. Not all of us are Republican or conservative, either. I am neither.
I am a child welfare social worker because I love children and I care about them. I have never made over $50k a year so I’m sure not in this field for the money! There are others here that are in the helping professions, like Heather, who is a nurse. I am also an adoptive mom and also hope to be a foster mom some day. The crisis pregnancy centers that your side so malign help women and their children even AFTER they are born. That stereotype is sooo tired!
Here is a pic of my beautiful granddaughter, Arianna. What’s not to love?
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/t1/1472886_10152247961325312_419992736_n.jpg
Whoops, here is a link.
phillymiss, she is gorgeous!
Christine, abortion is a human rights issue, not a religious issue. See http://SecularProLife.org
You support the “right” to choose to kill an innocent human being. That’s what you’re defending. Own it.
Phillymiss..i cant get to the picture..darn!!! And indeed we have plenty of biracial children here as well. Youre right! Many people are racist. I could only think that that boy on the bike must have bad parents. They learn it from home. My point also is it seems that the white women who go to the slummy clinics to abort just dont want to see it. They think they are much too uppity and high maintanence for that. They hate a white woman like me because I wont board their abortion bus.
Sorry for my typos folks
Oh phillymiss i got to the picture…awwww beautiful perfection!!!
My point about white women aborting…they dont tend to concern themselves with black genocide. They just go to the slum and have their abortions. They want to rid themselves of their own problem. Just dont bring your pictures to their high class suburbs. And Christine yes thats an awful story about the raped woman but abortion is just another act of violence.
Oh, phillymiss, don’t tell Christine all of those things.
Then she might have to go beyond her bumper sticker slogans and the thinking…just…hurts.
Hey Christine…in that story you told it seems to me the guy liked rape and violence. So did Castro. Its a choice after all right? Like rape? Then rape someone. Like violence then beat someone. Like murder? Then kill someone. Like kidnapping..kidnapp someone.
Phillymiss i would have given you 10 thumbs up for your post but my tiny phone wont let me.
Rape legal? No
Murder legal? No
Kidnapping legal? No
Abortion legal? Yes
First three harms living people. Fourth stops one from existing, never being aware it should have been born.
I also notice no one commented if the woman in India should have been forced to give birth in your world.
I also like to point out the undisputable fact that the people of Albuquerque, NM, rejected a ban against late abortions by 55-45%. You do not have the support you believe you have. Go to a pro women site and argue just like I do here, instead of cuddling each other with how good “pro lifers” you are.
Sorry just saw that Heather commented. So you would have forced her? Disgusting is the kindest word I can use
Abortion legal murder…beyond evil and disgusting!
Bashing a babys brains out or tearing them limb from limb over having a baby? Yep have it! By the way was your abortion from a rape? Hmmmmm…I thought not.
Christine: Slavery used to be legal. Would you have said in 1835, “Don’t like slavery? Don’t own a slave!”
What if you lived in Germany during the time of the Nuremberg Laws? Would you have said, “Don’t like killing Jews? Then don’t kill a Jew! But hey, it’s legal for everyone else so go nuts.”
How about the Jim Crow laws? “Hey, if you like blacks, then don’t discriminate, but don’t try to tell me that I can’t lynch a black man if that’s my choice.”
Adultery is legal. Are you a fan of that too? “Don’t like adultery? Don’t cheat on your spouse!”
And so on. Legality =/= morality.
In the case of the Indian woman, would you choose to execute an innocent child for the crime of the rapist? How is that fair or just? Abortion wouldn’t unrape the woman or punish her attackers, so how would it help the situation?
Christine, they already exist, many of them can feel pain, any your apathy is allowing them to be ripped limb from limb. You can call them “it” or demean others as “rape babies,” but they exist, they are human, and your callousness to their situation is unjust, and it leads to more injustices. You are clearly angry, but what did an unborn child ever do to you to cause it?
Right JoAnna!
Abortion should be illegal again because it is murder!
The slavery analogy is just so ironic. We’re talking about a horribly violent economic system that flourished in large part through the sexual exploitation of women. I would love to return to a world where women are forced to bear the children of their oppressors, wouldn’t you?
Hi again Christine, I’m glad you got that work project completed on time!
I would like to ask you if you think that woman in India, if she heard you use her pain to make a point on a message board do you think she’d appreciate that much? You don’t even know if she’s pro-life or pro-choice or whether she would appreciate that example at all.
“I would love to return to a world where women are forced to bear the children of their oppressors, wouldn’t you?”
Well if you think males are oppressors of women to the same extent that black women were exploited by slaveowners and other whites I really don’t know what to say .
Phillymiss your granddaughter is super-cute. Almost as cute as my kids when they were babies. ;)
No, Meghan. I want to create a world where no child is punished for the circumstances of its conception, and a woman experiencing a crisis pregnancy is given love, support, and tangible assistance as an alternative to denying basic human rights to an innocent human being.
Do you agree that slavery was unjust and oppressive even when it was legal?
Oh Phillymiss!! She’s a cutie pie! :)
Also, the analogy of the woman in India is a total non-sequitor. You know nothing about this woman (assuming you didn’t make the story up). ANd she died. So the point is moot.
But there *are* stories of horrible rape where the women were given love and support and let their babies live and tell their stories about how that ended up helping them heal from the rape! And there are also heartbreaking stories of women who thought abortion would help but that ended up being traumatized by the abortion as well because it was similar to the rape itself.
Anyway all of this is rather moot. Emotions and experiences are important, yes, but they never trump the truth. And the truth in this situation is that when an egg and sperm unite, a brand new human life is created. And regardless of the way that human was made no one – NO ONE – has the right to deny that human his or her right to life.
No experience, no emotions, no temporary problems should ever trump that baby’s right to life.
DPL..you usually always make great points!
Well, by “not punishing the child,” you are most certainly punishing the woman.
Also, spare me the
SPare you the what? BV? Huh?
And not punishing the child you’re not punishing the woman. How is it punishing her to give her an out? How is punishing her by giving her the power to bring some good from a horrific situation? Answer me that. Because that’s a true pro-woman situation; giving her the power to bring life from a horrifying situation.
christine @ 12:01 said:
“Fourth stops one from existing, never being aware it should have been born.”
Pretty hard to abort what doesn’t exist. You might do it in your imagination, but in real-life, there is a living human being there.
If you want to argue about self-awareness being a basis for personhood, you might not want to go there either – for someone who is self-aware has no obligation to communicate with others.
If you really want to insist on being able to define who is a human being or who isn’t, then you have no reason to expect others to treat you as special when someone else declares you to be non-human.
When you deny others their humanity, you lose yours in the process.
It’s punishing and demaning to a woman to tell her her only recourse is to kill a child. It’s demeaning to give her one option; the death of a child.
When you deny others their humanity, you lose yours in the process. -
Absolutely love that, Chris!!!
I know a woman who was an incest victim and had her own fathers child at 17. Today she is in her 50s and she is pro life. incest is disgusting but at least Debbie didnt make the child pay the price. She gave him up for adoption and now she wants to adopt.
“Giving her the power to bring life forth from a horrifying situation
This isn’t empowerment; it’s the default in a world where women don’t get to choose what happens to their bodies.
Exactly, heather. I’m not saying people who suffer are to be forced to raise the child – adoption is an option.
Good story, heather!!!!!!!!!1
Most women who become pregnant by rape choose life, and they do so despite the fact that society labels their children “rapists’ babies” and “rape babies.” They do so despite the fact that they’re told every time they look at their child’s face, he or she will remind them of the rape.
Support, counseling, acceptance, and hope is what women need.
Stats, please, Kel.
Women absolutely get to choose what happens to their bodies. But with abortion, they’re choosing to destroy someone else’s body. Big difference. Choosing abortion won’t unrape the woman or punish her rapist. It will destroy the life of an innocent child.
“Good story, heather!!!!!!!!!”
If Heather’s friend made the choice to carry her baby to term and give the baby to an adoptive family, I don’t know why you’d be sarcastic about it. Shouldn’t she be supported by you guys too? Is it only a good story if the woman chooses to abort after rape or incest or something?
Chris me too!
The next time you meet a cancer patient or an infertile woman, you be sure to tell her that she has “control” over everything that happens to her body.
Deluded she thinks i made it up. fine. Did I make up the Amanda Berry tale too? My son plays with her daughter. Do you watch the news? Uuuuum I live in Cleveland where it happened BV!
What’s the point? That one woman carried a pregnancy to term so no other woman should be able to get an abortion?
The only reason BV cant buy anything negative about a pro life tale or a woman butchered by abortion is because she is guilty. Her answer is abortion abortion abortion. She made a bad sexual choice with her body and her kid paid the price!
“She made a bad sexual choice with her body and her kid paid the price ”
I really think women’s sexual choices are basically irrelevant to whether abortion is right or not. Otherwise, wouldn’t everyone just be pro-life with exceptions for rape and incest? It’s not about sexual choices, it’s about whether the baby is a human deserving or rights or not.
What’s the matter, BV? Is Google broken today?
I wish I could like Jack’s last post about three more times.
Dpl i was just saying that bv cant believe that anyone would not have an abortion understand that some women dont choose abortion over some of the most difficult circumstances when she chose it for selfish reasons as so many often do.
Oh, by the way, guess what? The topic at hand is actually a black congressman accusing of pro-lifers of being racist.
Deflect, deflect, deflect….
Thanks BlueVelvet someone more here who does not see women as holes to be plugged by men for their pleasure. I also love how you try to make Kel come up with stats and nothing happens.
These people here obviously value an almond sized so far not born person higher than a woman with family and a life. Strange, really.
And to someone who accused me of making India story up, google India rape Singapore. That should do it. (She was brought to hospital in Singapore where she died)
Amazing you never heard of it. But you were too busy minding someone elses uterus?
And this site has published names of women hurt or dead from abortions. Those are/were obviously pro women, so I do think you should clean up your own mess first.
The thought of me or my daughter carrying a rape child makes me sick. But I guess you see it as a good lesson for those women. Running around getting raped like that, better know your place girl.
“Pro life” equals spitting in womens faces
Christine, I notice that you can’t actually respond to any of the counterarguments provided, but instead you have to keep on spewing vicious hatred toward both women and children. Why are you so anti-human-rights?
Christine you realize there are pro-life rape survivors right? Male and female, some who even became pregnant from their assaults and aborted or had the child? I think you’ll be hard-pressed to find an actual pro-lifer who actually blames rape victims or thinks they “got what they deserved” or anything like that. And there are pro-lifers and pro-choicers (women sometimes) who were conceived in rape, do you really think it’s “pro-woman” to call those women “rape child” and such?
If you actually want to discuss the subject, wouldn’t it be better to actually listen to what your opponents say and the points they are making? All the better to counter them, right?
When i used to protest Preterm and Martin Ruddocks clinics id say 96% of the women were black. Thats the problem with Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson. They dont SEE what pro lifers are doing. We are trying to save all children from slaughter. Black white hispanic biracial. They support Obama. Very pro abortion. They also support MLK who did NOT stand for abortion. Oh dems have it so twisted!!!
Living adult women always trumps unborn fetuses (a child is born). “Pro life” is anti human rights. You know, women ARE human. Even if it is a surprise
Human beings have equal rights, Christine. The thing is, pregnancy is always temporary and death is always permanent, so it’s logical that a child’s right to life (i.e., not to be killed) should be superseded by a woman’s right to bodily autonomy.
Christine, abortion doesn’t prevent someone from existing. It kills/ prevents the live birth of a small human who already exists. Please learn basic biology.
Thanks.
Torture is also, typically, temporary.
Did Christine just make disparaging remarks about my suggesting that BV should Google stats on rape and abortion – and then go on to suggest Google as a source for her own facts?
That’s pretty hilarious.
Jack, they don’t want to listen, and I get that. It’s easier to attack straw men than to face up to what abortion really is and the role it may in fact have played in their own lives.
“Torture”? LOL. I guess we moms are just gluttons for torture. Good Lord, BV. You’ve lost it.
Christine: ” Thanks BlueVelvet someone more here who does not see women as holes to be plugged by men for their pleasure.”
Hey Christine, I’ve got to say, rather impolitely, that feminists such as yourself don’t need men to do it for them :(
This hostility you have toward men is clouding your brain. Can you even co-exist with the opposite gender or do you need your own planet populated by the Amazons? Sheesh…
The only stats I could find about abortion after rape (that wasn’t from a pro-life source, because those would be ignored), was this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8765248.
In this study the amount of women aborting and not aborting was roughly equal. Still, if about 30,000 pregnancies are from rape yearly that’s barely a percentage point of overall pregnancies, and if half of those are aborted than that comprises only one percent of pregnancies aborted per year. But it’s approximately 99.99% of aborted pregnancies discussed by pro-choicers in my opinion.
Hi Phillymiss: your grand-daughter is indeed super-cute. Her eyes and the cheeks, WOW.
Gene variability indeed does wonders for the human race.
“Jack, they don’t want to listen, and I get that. It’s easier to attack straw men than to face up to what abortion really is and the role it may in fact have played in their own lives.”
It just would make sense to me, if abortion was so easily defended and our points easily knocked down, that they would want to debate.
“Torture is also, typically, temporary.”
Ah, so children born to women who didn’t want them are instruments of torture? Thanks Megan.
“Oh, by the way, guess what? The topic at hand is actually a black congressman accusing of pro-lifers of being racist. Deflect, deflect, deflect….”
Yes Kel, agreed. I guess his tactic is that if unable to justify black genocide, pull the race card. Did he meet with “reverend” Jesse or something?
It is human, but it is dependent on me and you have no right to force me to give birth.
An earlier comment: no my abortion was not after rape. It was a way out in an hopeless situation.
Another comment brought up nazis (anyone who is first to equal the opponent in a discussion has lost – Godwins law). After the manipulations in the 1934 elections the nazi administration can not be considered legal. The holocaust was thus not legal under any german or international law.
I will leave you now, I wanted to see how the talk goes on a “pro life” site. And it is scary, it really is.
May you never come even close to power. Watch out american women, the “pro lifers” are after you all!
I didn’t realize it was National Non Sequitur Day, BV! Good for you for celebrating. :)
In the way that getting an abortion would be torture for you, enduring an unwanted pregnancy would be torturous for other women. Extreme pro-life solipsism prevents you from grasping that, I suppose.
One last to Kel. You came up with a remark that could be measurable and did not provide a source. The india story was all over the news six or seven months ago. A slight difference.
And I do not hate men. I love mine very deeply. Where did I say I hate men? But I hate “pro life”. But not “pro lifers”, you are just tragic
Christine, why does a woman’s right to bodily autonomy supersede a child’s right to life, given that pregnancy is temporary and death is permanent?
I’m so sorry you felt that your situation was hopeless, and I’m sorry you didn’t get the support you needed to better your situation.
Re: Godwin’s law, bear this in mind: “While falling afoul of Godwin’s law tends to cause the individual making the comparison to lose his argument or credibility, Godwin’s law itself can be abused as a distraction, diversion or even as censorship, fallaciously miscasting an opponent’s argument as hyperbole when the comparisons made by the argument are actually appropriate.” (source)
If Roe v Wade is someday overturned, would you then believe that abortion was never legal in this country, and that it has always been wrong to kill an innocent human being even though the assumed-to-be-valid law permitted it?
Your comments scare me as well. Given that you are post-abortive, though, I understand why you are in a place of such anger and pain. It’s the avenging conscience at work. Remember that the pro-lifers are here if you ever want to work through your pain.
I think actual victims of torture would be quite offended by that analogy, BV.
Oh dear 18 years ago and not one day of regret. Thanks anyhow – other “pro lifers” have said that I shall burn in hell, put acid in my private parts etc etc.
There is no pain at all – just relief that I could make that choice, that made my life take a turn to the better
And *actual* victims of the Hokocaust–would they be offended by your analogies?
I’m sorry people said such reprehensible things to you, Christine.
I’m glad your life is improved now, but I’m sorry that you feel your child had to die in order to improve your circumstances. In a better world, that would never be the case.
Regardless, your words here don’t indicate peace and relief, but quite the opposite. People who have peace and relief about their decisions don’t troll blogs that hold the opposite view in order to spew vitriol. Again, if you ever need to work through your pain, there are may kind and compassionate pro-life organizations who will treat you with the respect and dignity that you deserve.
I don’t think so, BV. I think many would understand that the dehumanization of any human being to make killing them more palatable is a reprehensible thing.
“And *actual* victims of the Hokocaust–would they be offended by your analogies? ”
Yes actually. I don’t like people co-opting tragedies to score points on internet battles about other issues. I’ve said it about a million times. But I don’t see how you can shout “aha!” about it when you’re doing the same thing to torture victims.
And Christine that’s horrible and I’m sorry such things were said to you. Like I told you before, I have no wish to make you feel shamed or bad, same for Megan or any pro-choice woman who comes here to talk about her abortion. Even if I had the power to make you feel ashamed, I wouldn’t do it. It’s not my place to make anyone feel bad. All I care about is securing rights for unborn children, not shaming or making anyone feel crappy about their prior choices even if they are wrong.
I have an old book in my library. I found it on the internet. Someone once noted that nearly all women who conceive in a rape decide to keep the baby rather than abort. So, I found the book in the internet and ordered it. The book is a collection of studies, and one study/chapter has that analysis.
Sure enough, it is true. However, good data on this question are rare.
Maybe Christine and other pro-abortionists can advocate for better, more current studies of this topic.
Or, maybe they won’t, fearing what the result will be.
Valerie Gatto, Miss USA Pennsylvania 2014: conceived in rape. She had value as a human being once conceived, based on basic human rights, and continues to have value. You don’t have to petition the government with some claim to be awarded value. You don’t have to be free of disability. You don’t have to be male. Etc. You just have to be human.
http://triblive.com/aande/somanyquestions/5306844-74/miss-positive-family#ixzz2ugWeGiXV
I just don’t get why we have to discuss pregnancies resulting from rape or incest every single thread when 99% of abortions have nothing to do with rape or incest. Particularly because I know that even if pro-choicers got any of us to agree that abortion should be legal for rape or incest, it’s not like they’d be like “oh okay it can now be illegal for the vast majority of non-rape or incest conceived pregnancies”. It just seems like a deflection and derailment because it’s such an emotional subject for so many people, it takes away from actually discussing what abortion is and does.
My husband passed away and he was Jewish. He was outraged at his half sister for having multiple abortions! He said ” How could my sister do that after what the holocaust did to our people?” So there TAKE THAT!
There is also a site called Jews for life and they have no problem comparing the holocaust to abortion! None! Do not assume all Jews are pro choice. My brother in law calls it sickening.
But BV should change her name to Black Velvet…she could use a shot or 2
I think she’s named after the David Lynch movie, but I never asked her.
Again, Megs and Christine: your life is not better. Just listen to yourselves! You killed your own children! How does that make anything better, really?
It is hard for abortion fans to comprehend that both a mother and her child have an equal right to their lives. Equality is not a subject they understand. When an abortion fan says a mother’s will to kill her baby TRUMPS her baby’s right to live, she is proving that equality need not exist in her Orwellian mind. However, the facts on the ground are this: pro-lifers want to protect eachand every human being, regardless of color or size or location.
Courtnay youre back! Missed you. eh what those 2 have done is barbaric so they have to justify abortion. How do they know it was for the best?
It is amazing how a small pack of trolls can push the post count over a hundred.
The pro-aborts keep going back to one assertion: That a woman should choose how she wants to use/abuse/mutilate her own body.
They continue to ignore one reality: A child has to die, every time.
And they cannot imagine a loving way to help a pregnant woman — except to kill her child. Gotta kill her child. Nothing else will do.
Another friend is now too old for kids after 2 abortions years ago. She has a boyfriend who treats her kinda bad imo and she has 3 cats. She regrets her abortions now and said ” Im going to die alone. Im lonesome.”
I have pc friends who actually dont pimp abortion but Christine and BV arent supportive of adoption or keeping the baby. Lol they are scared of us? Shoot go to one of their sites one time and then you will see what creeps they are.
And to the boy on the bike ( earlier post) here is what i would have told him had he waited…and i must correct myself ..he said raped. First of all my daughter cant get pregnant. She had ovarian cancer and had to have her reproductive organs removed. Second I would have told the little punk that either way it would have been my grandchild and we would get through it. Also my daughter is 22 and shes pro life because shes suffered from cancer as a kid and now as an adult. Shes happy on days she isnt sick.
That may well be the most bigoted thing I have ever read. I’m white, and I sincerely hope to adopt when finances permit, and the color of any child who becomes mine is simply not important.
As for grandchildren, if my sons choose to marry black women (far from unlikely, considering the membership of my religious community), I will be thrilled.
Let my clarify some things before I leave this site for good.
1. I am not pro abortion. I am pro choice. I do not think you can find anyone who is pro abortion. That would be creepy.
2. I do not, despite what some people here imply, regret my abortion. It was the best way out of a bad situation, and I have not regretted it one single day.
3. Women who make abortions are not monsters. Go to this site and read some random stories. http://www.1in3campaign.org/en/
4. Where your agenda is law, women die and get mutilated. Suggested reading:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/22/opinion/leeches-lye-and-spanish-fly.html?emc=eta1&_r=1&
A quote to back that statement up: “Legal restrictions on safe abortion do not reduce the incidence of abortion. A woman’s likelihood to have an abortion is about the same whether she lives in a region where abortion is available on request or where it is highly restricted. While legal and safe abortions have declined recently, unsafe abortions show no decline in numbers and rates despite their being entirely preventable. Providing information and services for modern contraception is the primary prevention strategy to eliminate unplanned pregnancy. Providing safe abortion will prevent unsafe abortion. In all cases, women should have access to post-abortion care, including services for family planning. The Millennium Development Goal to improve maternal health is unlikely to be achieved without addressing unsafe abortion and associated mortality and morbidity.”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20085681
5. And finally, a video that says it all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsknXsm2eHo
Just one more comment to Heather: No we are not creeps. We believe that women have the right to their reproductive health, and that we do not become state property when pregnant.
Finally re India, which someone suggested was a story I made up, here is a link. I did not get all the details correctly when I searched my memory, but most of it.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/dec/27/india-gang-rape-victim-singapore
The woman died some days later.
And many of you have said that you have loved children/grandchildren that were conceived by rape. Fine. If she for some reason still wants the child, I do not object one second to that. But forcing her to keep it is utterly repulsive. We really are creeps on the pro women side, aren’t we?
You know, “Godwin’s Law” was made up by some lawyer in the 90s. But I guess because he says something is true, it must be. Ha.
Pro-lifers, I guess we should all go and cry now because by comparing the human atrocity of abortion – where 56 million preborn children have been slaughtered and tossed in the trash since 1973 in America alone – to the human atrocity of slaughtering millions of Jews and many other people groups in Germany, we’ve lost the argument. A lawyer said so!!!
Oh, by the way, I read a really good article today: http://themattwalshblog.com/2014/03/04/i-am-afraid-of-this-indisputable-pro-choice-argument/
If Christine can say “pro life” in quotes over and over, do we have the right to do the same with “pro choice?”
MemyselfandI: Go ahead if it makes you happy.
The last democrat: I admire the description of your source: “I have an old book in my library. I found it on the internet.” Oh, that one. Thank you for clarification.
How about this quote:”The national rape-related pregnancy rate is 5.0% per rape among victims of reproductive age (aged 12 to 45); among adult women an estimated 32,101 pregnancies result from rape each year. Among 34 cases of rape-related pregnancy, the majority occurred among adolescents and resulted from assault by a known, often related perpetrator. Only 11.7% of these victims received immediate medical attention after the assault, and 47.1% received no medical attention related to the rape. A total 32.4% of these victims did not discover they were pregnant until they had already entered the second trimester; 32.2% opted to keep the infant whereas 50% underwent abortion and 5.9% placed the infant for adoption; an additional 11.8% had spontaneous abortion.”
Source is a book I found in my library, no sorry, wrong: Rape-related pregnancy: estimates and descriptive characteristics from a national sample of women.” by MM Holmes, HS Resnick, DG Kilpatrick and CL Best.
Link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8765248
Yes 32,8 % is my opinion too of what is “nearly all”.
There is hope and healing after abortion.
I am praying for you Megs and Christine. I was once as angry and full of venom as you are. I never had peace. And your comments here are evidence of that lack of peace and contentment. Abortion NEVER delivers that. NEVER delivers on its promises. To empower. To help.
We do not kill others to make our lives “better.”
Nobody who is at peace comes to a prolife blog to continually screech and carry on and on about how much peace they have.
http://rachelsvineyard.org
Jack,
If you notice those that are proabortion ALWAYS go straight to the most extreme cases to somehow prove a point. It doesn’t. They want to talk about the 1% and completely dismiss the 3500+ innocent human beings that will die today for everything BUT rape/incest.
You cannot pretend to protect women when you kill preborn girls.
Back on track.
ALABAMA?? You have some work to do!!!
Isn’t it racist to claim that white people want to abort their black babies because they are black??? hhhhmmmmmmmmm
And what the world does RACE have to do with a human being who has a heartbeat NOT being killed via abortion??
Carla please do not pray for me. I do not believe in any god and I am perfectly fine without prayers.
I do not come here to say that I am in peace (although I am). I replied that I am when some other amateur psychologist told me what I really feel.
I am here because someone has to tell you, in this little club for mutual admiration, that your ideas kill women around the world.
I did not bring up the subject of rape/incest, I replied to it; even if I think it is the most obvious case where abortion is an option, it is in other cases too. It is always the womans choice.
that your ideas kill women around the world.
And you don’t see the irony in saying this, given that your ideas kill millions of children in the U.S. alone on a yearly basis?
Will you stick around long enough to see how all the stats you’ve previously posted can be refuted, or do you intend to return to your own echo chamber without bothering to learn the actual facts?
I know lots of children to be die. I do not like abortions. But it must always be available, the opposite is oppression of women. Yes, I like to see stats, Kel does not give any and some other one referred to an unnamed book. You can do better, “pro lifers”.
Christine: “I am here because someone has to tell you, in this little club for mutual admiration, that your ideas kill women around the world.”
I think this is the most disingenous and purposely twisted statement you have made about pro-lifers thus far Christine. You truly need to sit down and contemplate what you just stated there.
You got this all confused. As a pro-abort you have no problem with aborting a girl who WILL BECOME A WOMAN. So who kills women through their ideology/actions and who aims to save lives through their advocacy? You have to realize that your statements don’t support your pro-abort stance and just make you look hostile.
You lost all credibility in my eyes with the above unfactual vitriolic statement and nothing will ever make me re-consider you as nothing more than just an angry extreme feminist.
Like you can stop me from praying.
Someone has to tell us. And someone has to tell you the truth.
“And they cannot imagine a loving way to help a pregnant woman — except to kill her child. Gotta kill her child. Nothing else will do.”
Very good point Del.
Personally I would like to know how does an abortion improve the woman’s “lot?”
- did the abortion result in the woman being less promiscuous or more mindful of sexual activity?
– did the abortion improve finances for her?
– did the relationship with her significant other fare better ?
- did the abortion make her happier about life in general long-term?
Something tells me that Megan and Christine would truly struggle with answering these questions for themselves with honesty.
Where abortion is legal, very very few adult women die from it. Where it is illegal, around 50000/year die in illegal abortions. Millions are injured for life.
I guess you intended to insult me by calling me an angry feminist. You failed, I am flattered.
We have to fight every day to preserve what we have achieved. Conservatives, “pro lifers”,catholics and other religious nutters, all strive to turn back the clock. One GOPer actually said some years ago “It would be better if women had no right to vote”. Not surprising, women are too intelligent to support them.
So what you are saying is that in your book it is okay to sacrifice the lives of these “very few women” so that you and those in your camp can continue supporting abortion????
Do you actually think before anything comes out????
Heather, I am really sorry about your daughter. I wish her health and happiness.
Thomas, my daughter is Irish, German, and black — no Polish though :-(
I get soo tired of ‘borts coming to this site and “schooling” us on how crazy, wrong-headed, and fanatical we are. If we are so bad, why even waste your time with us? I don’t go to Stormfront, N*ggerwatch (yep, that’s the name of an actual site) and argue with people I think are nuts!
Thomas saw your questions now, sorry for delay
Promiscuity? I could have guessed you do not like sexually active women. Stupid question.
Finances were better in the long run, I managed a very qualified education and a high pay job after that
I had no significant other then, question not applicable to me
Yes it made me happier, I would have been stuck in Shithole City with the other single teenage mothers…unemployed, obese, chain smoking by the kitchen fan, old and bitter at 35
And I would most likely not have had those two kids I love deeply
In a world as we see it, you can live the life you want to. In the world you want, your rules apply to those who do not share your ideas. Ever thought of that? Guess you have, and it makes you happy. Ban on abortions only affect women. And to you we do not count fully as human beings.
Pro choice – the still so radical idea that women are human
Christine: there is a difference between promiscuity and being sexually active. Stupid response.
The rest of your response only reinforces my assessment of you as an angry extreme feminist. So no insult there but the truth. Live with it.
Sacrifice very few…or sacrifice 50000/ year for abortions that will ever be around? Guess who is not thinking… “Pro life” is not only evil. It is stupid too
A guy with many partners is a real man to you. A woman with many partners is a slut to you. Evil, stupid and hypocritical…”pro life” exposed.
Christine:
The American Medical Association reported that the actual number of abortion-related deaths in 1950 was 263 and even those figures were dropping, with 119 deaths in 1970. (Source: Council on Scientific Affairs, American Medical Association. “Induced Termination of Pregnancy Before and After Roe v. Wade: Trends in the Mortality and Morbidity or Women,” Journal of the American Medical Association,12/9/92.)
The Alan Guttmacher Institute published stats that abortion deaths fell from around 200 in 1965 to 110 in 1967. (Source: “Abortion Providers Share Inner Conflicts,” The American Medical News, 7/12/93.)
CDC records show that beginning in 1940, the death rate from illegal abortion was falling faster than the overall maternal death rate. (Source: Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report: CDC Surveillance Summaries, United States 1989, Issued 1992.)
Also, I wonder why you feel with such certainty that your life would have ended up a certain way? I don’t think you give yourself enough credit. Thousands of women have managed to complete higher education as single mothers. There’s also the option of adoption for those who don’t feel equipped to parent.
I am off. This site makes me sick. Remember to celebrate march 8 tomorrow. International womens day. Oh, you do not? I could
almost guess
Thank you for calling me angry extreme feminist. Without those, we would still be without the right to vote, higher education etc…
Women who are not feminists, you betray yourselves, your ancestors, your daughters… Goodbye “pro lifers”
I view both genders equally on this so assuming first is not going to help your case. But that’s what extreme feminists do, just assume things about men. No wonder you can’t get along…..
Christine, one of my sons was born on March 8 (big 10 tomorrow). Nice reminder for me of what women mean to our humanity. I also come from a culture back in Eastern Europe where March 8 has always been a great celebration (bigger than Valentine’s Day as you know). It was in my blood when I came to the US and still is.
You’ve got to stop assuming things about other people, step back and think before writing nonsense. You’re a clueless troll Christine, face it :)
Interesting, Christine, how you choose to leave “for good” after I post stats about the real facts regarding illegal abortions prior to Roe v Wade.
“I would have been stuck in Sh**hole City with the other single teenage mothers…unemployed, obese, chain smoking by the kitchen fan, old and bitter at 35 ”
Just to let you know, there isn’t any swearing allowed so you’ll get your comment deleted or edited if you do.
Anyway, I don’t know how you can possibly know exactly what would have happened if you had your child you aborted. And you’re acting like adoption wasn’t even a possibility, like you would have had no option but to keep your child and raise him/her. But really, even if a child will make someone’s economic place a little worse in the long run, that doesn’t excuse killing her/him. If death is a cure to poverty we might as well round up everyone on welfare and shoot them. No thank you, I’d rather get real solutions that everyone has access to instead of killing some people (the most vulnerable) to get other people out.
Looks like someone posted some stats regarding pregnancies resulting from rape. One study – one – shows that half chose not to abort. How often do you hear THAT statistic when pro-aborts talk about pregnancy from rape?? You don’t. And that only five percent of rapes resulted in pregnancy. These are pretty amazing to me. (The study I found elsewhere actually pointed to 78% choosing life, btw.)
Christine – more than half of us who have been talk to you today have been women. As mothers, wives, daughters, and sisters – we are proud to be women. And as fathers, husbands, brothers, and sons, the pro-life men here are proud to have women as part of their lives. But have fun knocking down those straw men you’ve erected. They don’t represent pro-lifers at all, but it’s not as if that ever mattered to someone who can’t have a simple conversation. You claim you come here to tell us the truth, but here’s something you should know: you can repeat a lie a million times, and that still won’t make it true. It only makes you a propagandist.
See you around!
“Yes, I like to see stats, Kel does not give any and some other one referred to an unnamed book. You can do better, “pro lifers”. ”
I posted stats on pregnancy through rape and abortion yesterday, and it was a reliable source without bias (not a pro-life site). You just chose to ignore them for whatever reason. In my source it says have choose abortion, and half didn’t (though unfortunately some that chose not to abort had miscarriages, I think 11%) . I don’t know why you would ignore that I actually posted stats.
But anyway, only about 15,000 abortions out of the 1.2 million in the US have anything to do with rape or incest. That’s 1%.
Who says you can’t be a feminist and be prolife? If you believe a woman has the right to control her own body, and I mean HER body, not someone else’s who happens to be inside her, and that women should have all the same opportunities in the workplace as men do, doesn’t that qualify as a feminist?
Christine – more than half of us who have been talk to you today have been women. As mothers, wives, daughters, and sisters – we are proud to be women.
No, you’re wrong. All anti-choice women are Stepford wives who keep the patriarchy in power. We are under the control of our husbands (which is kind of hard for me, since I’m divorced). We not only hate ourselves, we hate our daughters, sisters, aunts, and mothers and our little female dogs, too, all because we don’t believe in the right to kill developing human beings. (sighs, shakes head again).
And you’re acting like adoption wasn’t even a possibility, like you would have had no option but to keep your child and raise him/her.
Anyway, I don’t know how you can possibly know exactly what would have happened if you had your child you aborted. And you’re acting like adoption wasn’t even a possibility, like you would have had no option but to keep your child and raise him/her
The media, etc., like the only choice when facing an unplanned pregnancy is to either have the kid and be miserable, or abort. Adoption is hardly ever mentioned. I am not saying it is easy for birthmoms, and adopted kids tend to have problems. I have been honest with the issues that I have had with my son Isaiah, Arianna’s father. I hope he straightens himself out and kicks his drug habit, not only because he needs to do it for himself, but for those two beautiful babies he brought into the world. He has caused me a great deal of heartache but I don’t regret adopting him. He is only 23 and young enough to turn things around. While there is life, there is hope!
Kelly – I believe it does.
And actually, the founders of the Women’s Movement in America were feminist and they were pro-life.
Adopted kids can have problems of course, but wouldn’t that depend a lot on how the birthmother behaved during pregnancy and/or the age the child was when you adopted it?
Yes, kids who were older when adopted and those who received poor prenatal care can have more problems, but they shouldn’t be left out in the cold.
Yes, kids who were older when adopted and those who received poor prenatal care can have more problems, but they shouldn’t be left out in the cold.
Of course they shouldn’t. My son was six weeks when he was adopted and his mother had used drugs early in her pregnancy. I am just saying that prolifers should be realistic and realize that all adoptions don’t turn out perfectly.
Yeah, people should be realistic. But having biological children doesn’t turn out perfectly all the time. I feel like people are sometimes unfair to adopted kids. Plenty of families have hereditary mental illnesses or drug issues or physical disabilities, even if the kid isn’t adopted out. I just get upset at things like older boys being put in juvenile hall because no families are willing to care for them and such.
You’re right. Phillymiss. Sometimes it’s the other way around too, people who plan to adopt can have people constantly reminding them of stuff like, “you don’t know what you’re getting.” even though you can often know far more now than you could in the past. And of course, if a murderer was adopted, the press seems to never leave that fact out. From what I’ve seen though, most people who grew up to be murderers were raised in their biological family, and I am using the word “raised” loosely, because they often were ignored and/or abused.
Life isnt problem free for any of us. Phillymiss ty for the well wishes for my daughter. She has given her life to the Lord come what may. She told me if she dies she wants her fb status changed to ” Chillin with Jesus ” I also pray your son pulls out of addiction as you know Ive lost my first husband to drugs. I know adopted adults who are well adjusted as well as some biological kids who are a wreck. I always point back to the Amy Grossberg case…a teen who hid her pregnancy and tossed her baby in the trash. She had it ALL..perhaps too much?
I’ve been following the stories out of India closely. It is the natural result of India’s 2-child policy, which has stripped women of control of their bodies. Forced sterilizations. Forced abortions. Forced contraception. Gendercide. When women are denied their humanity by being forced to repress their bodies natural functioning (note that I said FORCED), violence against women ensues.
This misogyny has been seriously accentuated by gender imbalance in many parts of India, where their are far more men than women. And that is a situation, especially in a culture that tends to blame the rape victim (at least in modern times), that quite naturally leads to these horrific crimes.
Suppose she had lived, and that she had conceived. What then? Would she have been given a choice in the hospital about the result of that pregnancy? Probably not. Even in the US, where coercion is supposed to be illegal, emergency contraception is a knee-jerk reaction to rape. Where is the choice? Would there even have been someone to insist that she provide informed consent first? Or, given her condition, would it just be done to her–for her own good? Last I checked, informed consent is a human right. All too often women are deprived of it.
Now, all that assumes that her injuries, upon hypothetically surviving, would have been of a nature that her body *could* support a pregnancy. A violent rape can easily rob a woman of her ability to carry children. In this particular case, it is a reasonable possibility that a resulting pregnancy could not have progressed to term at all, in which case her attackers would have deprived her of yet more choices.
I know women who have aborted after rape. It didn’t help anything. In one case, her abortion (not the rape) ruined her cervix. I dare anyone ask her what she feels about her post-rape abortion eleven miscarriages and one still birth later. They might not survive the response.
As for India, I like to set priorities. There are clearly issues there that outweigh the question of abortion in cases of rape. India needs a culture of life, a culture that does not demean women for their reproductive systems or for their cultural roles. India needs an end to gendercide, to bride burning, to human trafficking, to wife beating, to enforced eugenic programs, to forced polyandry (sexual slavery in the service of brothers), to rape and gang rape, and to police who are hesitant to take rape charges seriously.
The women who have died from gang rape in India were deprived of far, far too many choices–real choices. And abortion doesn’t solve any of it.
BTW, I’m a Jew. I am pro-life. I’m not a fan of Jews for Life, because of theological differences, but I am a huge fan of Ephrat, an Israeli pro-life organization.
Christine–
Last I checked, smoking is not the result of pregnancy. If it is a natural consequence of carrying a pregnancy to term, I’m glad I’m doing it wrong.
Oh, and of course women are human. We know that in the pro-life crowd, because pregnant women carry human babies. That’s why we call the result of conception a “baby.”
We also believe women have a right to fully informed consent to medical procedures (as is a human right), the right not to be coerced by anyone into sexual activity against their will or into abortion against their will (both a serious problem), and the right to accurate information about the female body and its workings.
None of these goals are furthered by organization like Planned Parenthood or by widely disseminated sex-ed curricula or by members of the medical establishment.
Alvin admitted that some parents “make” their daughters have abortions. He has admitted that women are being forced to abort.
He says that white parents are forcing their white children to kill their bi-racial grandchildren. Based on this alone, I’d sure think he’d oppose abortion.