Pro-life news brief 10-16-14
by JivinJ, host of the blog, JivinJehoshaphat
- The New York Times covers Planned Parenthood’s continuing attempts to corner the market on abortion. They’re building a $9 million facility in Queens:
While there are other women’s health centers in Queens that offer abortions, the absence of a Planned Parenthood was “something that had to be corrected,” Councilman Jimmy Van Bramer, Democrat of Queens, said. - Katha Pollitt is out and about promoting her new book on abortion. The latest is this Huffington Post column excerpted from her book where she claims, “We need to see abortion as an urgent practical decision that is just as moral as the decision to have a child — indeed, sometimes more moral” and “Actually, abortion is part of being a mother and of caring for children….”
- Alabama Women’s Center for Reproductive Alternatives abortion clinic is re-opening at a new location after the old clinic couldn’t meet standards set forth in Alabama’s Women’s Health and Safety Act of 2013. If you watch the video of the newscast you can see a sign on a door which reads, “NO CHILDREN ALLOWED IN THE BUILDING!!!”
Oct.16, 2014 3:00 pm |
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Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
“Actually, abortion is part of being a mother and of caring for children….”
So killing your children is part of caring for them as a mother….
There is zero rationality left in the pro-abortion camp. None. Zilch, Nada.
Out in the real world, where most people think of children as being those little tykes you can actually see running around, terminating unwanted or unviable pregnancies means that the children people do have are the wanted ones, the ones they’ve chosen to have. They are more valued, loved and appreciated. Therefore, abortion can be a part of better parenting.
Gosh, I live in the real world and i heartily disagree that abortion makes for better parenting, I can only think that the argument is that abortion leads to a better financial well being. And that might be true.
But I think that a mother who aborts had best keep that secret from her living children forever. However that cat just doesn’t want to stay in the bag. I speak from experience. Once I knew my younger sibling was aborted I could only look at my mother with horror.
Abortion does not make a better happier family. Quite the opposite.
“There is zero rationality left in the pro-abortion camp.”
There ever was any there to begin with?
I have schadenfreude over the efforts of the abortion cheer-leaders.
They should have stuck with “choice.”
=========================
Meanwhile…. I am not surprised that an abortion clinic remodeled or relocated to get into compliance with modern medical standards. I am surprised that only one facility has chosen to do so.
Now everyone can be assured that the Alabama center is not as shoddy as it used to be.
“i heartily disagree that abortion makes for better parenting” – well you would say that now wouldn’t you.
“I can only think that the argument is that abortion leads to a better financial well being. And that might be true” – it may well be. Then there is also the fact that a woman who chooses to become a mother has actually made that choice and isn’t under any physical, emotional, mental or suchlike stress because of an unwanted child.
“But I think that a mother who aborts had best keep that secret from her living children forever” – only if those children are fervent anti-choicers.
“Once I knew my younger sibling was aborted I could only look at my mother with horror” – again, hardly surprising.
“Abortion does not make a better happier family. Quite the opposite” – apparently it does.
We have several post-abortive women who pray with our vigil. Several of them are very afraid of what will happen when their living children find out about the abortion.
It is heart-breaking to see how the abortion still frightens and hurts, even after the mother has embraced and mourned the lost child and received healing.
Reality,
So given abortion makes for better parenting, after 41 years of legal abortion, there should be no child abuse or need for foster care, right? Child Protective Services should be a thing of the past as well.
“there should be no child abuse or need for foster care, right? – why would you think that? Not everyone chooses to terminate an unplanned or unwanted pregnancy, even if they aren’t amongst the anti-choicers. There’s also the not so little fact that we have no way of knowing what the child abuse or foster care numbers might be if abortion wasn’t legal.
alright. everyone who thinks prolife antiabortion is what we need to spend our time supporting and preventing should goto youtube and whatch the video called “Bulgarias abandon children (full length )”
and hopefully you realize instead of saving unwanted pregnancies you should use your time better spent by saving undwanted children already here that know more then anyone what suffering feels like. maybe youll realize just because a women decides to put there baby up for adoption doesnt mean every baby finds a home. Of course the us orphanages/foster homes/group homes arent nearlyb as bad here. but the fact that we have any at all means theres unwanted, uncared, unsupported, unloved fchildren here becausr people like you all pressure mothers to keep there unwanted pregnancys.
Mary, please don’t feed the troll.
She doesn’t.
“and hopefully you realize instead of saving unwanted pregnancies you should use your time better spent by saving undwanted (sic) children already here”
Actually, children in the womb are also already here. I can look at the ultrasound of my grandbaby and see that. His or her presence is already being felt.
One of the worst cases of child abuse I had contact with involved a mother who had two previous abortions. Her five month old daughter sustained 27 broken bones. During supervised parental visits, the girl cried inconsolably. Yet, the same baby had no problem being with anyone else.
So what you are saying is that it could very well have been three being abused rather than one.
“NO CHILDREN ALLOWED IN THE BUILDING!!!”
Oh, children are allowed in alright. It is only because of the children that the building is open in the first place.
The children are just not allowed back out – in one piece anyway.
“Those little tykes you can actually see running around” It s strange I have never seen a baby running.
“But I think that a mother who aborts had best keep that secret from her living children forever” – only if those children are fervent anti-choicers.
An interesting point, but I wonder if in your “real world,” you recall the man who threatened multiple pro-lifers and was involved in the abortion industry himself. He was a commenter here, and his mother was extremely and proudly pro-choice – enough to abort most of his siblings.
He might still be in prison now for his threats, which he intended to make real, before he was caught.
I’m not sure how much good it did him, having known about his mother’s abortions and having felt the need to defend them against the free speech of pro-lifers.
Reality says:
So what you are saying is that it could very well have been three being abused rather than one.
There were three abused children. One was beaten repeatedly and two were killed. The tragedy is that only the beatings can be prosecuted.
In your opinion, the dead ones were more fortunate and the third one should have been killed too.
Our job is to save children from a culture that thinks like you.
We believe that the culture of abortion leads to the abuse of surviving children. This notion — that young lives are not worth protecting — pervades beyond the womb.
Duh. Killing your own unborn child does not make you a better to the ones you allowed to live.
Duh times infinity.
Reality,
Well if your claim has any basis in fact, then wouldn’t 41 years of legal abortion virtually eliminate child abuse, foster care, and the need for protective services? Wouldn’t all children be planned, perfect and wanted and living lives of perpetual bliss? You are inadvertently pointing out that abortion in fact does NOT solve social problems.
Also Reality, you claim that we don’t know what the numbers would be if abortion wasn’t legal. So you acknowledge the numbers may be the same or less than with legal abortion, right?
Reality, you are recycling the old arguments of pre Roe. All children planned and wanted, no more poverty, no more child abuse. Sounds so logical doesn’t it? Unfortunately human nature and life are considerably more complex.
Reality 1:26am
Maybe, maybe not. There may have been a specific reason this child was singled out for abuse where the others might not have been.
50 years ago in my hometown police raided a home with five children. Only one child had been tied to her bed in the basement, the other children were not mistreated. When asked by the reporters if they didn’t want this little girl, the mother replied: Oh yes we wanted her. We prayed we would have her.
Like I a said Reality, human nature and life are considerably more complex.
Fernando,
Then you never say my son who walked at 10 months. I walked at 9 months.
Hi MoJoanne,
How heartrending. Thank you to people such as yourself who must work with these situations.
The mother had 2 abortions. She certainly had access to birth control…and abortion. Yet this tragedy occurred.
When will people like Reality realize that child abuse, or abuse of any kind. is not as simplistic as they think? That it is indeed a very complex problem involving various factors.
gabbu,
“Bulgaria’s Abandoned Children”?
So tell us, what are the economic and social conditions in Bulgaria? What is the status of medical care? What is the status of women? Do they have equality with men? Do women have equal access to education and opportunity? What services are available to pregnant women in need? How is aborting Bulgarian women going solve their social and economic problems?
“Actually, abortion is part of being a mother and of caring for children….”
Well I never had an abortion, along with about 2/3’s of american women. Many other women here haven’t either, so that means we are not “really” mothers?
I’ve talked numerous times about my absolutely terrible childhood at the hands of my very abusive parents. I also mentioned my mother was mentally ill. Being pressured to have a late-term abortion by my father and seeing that baby — it was a little boy — discarded in a bucket, scalded to death, probably didn’t do much for my mother’s already fragile mental health. I was only about ten, but I distinctly remember her crying on the bed afterwards. And aborting my brother sure didn’t make them better parents, they were just as miserable and abusive as ever.
I am thankful that my mom didn’t abort me, despite the hell I went through with her and my father. Even though I’ve been through some pretty terrible situations, I’ve had some amazing experiences too.
I too, work in CPS, and I’ve seen some horrendous things. But I’ve never ONCE heard these brave kids even the teens, say “Gee, I wish I would have been aborted.” So why do you ‘borts think they should have been?
Thank you phillymiss,
For your service on behalf of abused children.
I said children run fernando, not babies.
“In your opinion, the dead ones were more fortunate and the third one should have been killed too” – do I Del? How would you know what my opinion of the situation is?
“Our job is to save children from a culture that thinks like you” – well there’s a no win situation for you.
“We believe that the culture of abortion leads to the abuse of surviving children” – I believe your belief is misguided.
“This notion — that young lives are not worth protecting — pervades beyond the womb” – not so much.
“Killing your own unborn child does not make you a better to the ones you allowed to live” – let’s see now, having a child or children that are wanted, that are chosen, compared to having unwanted ones thrust upon you. It’s obvious. Duh times infinity.
“Well if your claim has any basis in fact, then wouldn’t 41 years of legal abortion virtually eliminate child abuse, foster care, and the need for protective services?” – I already answered this question.
“Wouldn’t all children be planned, perfect and wanted and living lives of perpetual bliss?” – the same answer applies here too.
“You are inadvertently pointing out that abortion in fact does NOT solve social problems’ – no I am not, and you would know why if you had read the answer I gave earlier.
“Also Reality, you claim that we don’t know what the numbers would be if abortion wasn’t legal. So you acknowledge the numbers may be the same or less than with legal abortion, right?” – no. Logic and common sense indicate that the less unwanted children there are the less likely abusive situations are to occur.
“Reality, you are recycling the old arguments of pre Roe. All children planned and wanted, no more poverty, no more child abuse. Sounds so logical doesn’t it?” – ‘no more’ was probably a bit of a pipe dream, GOP policies and anti-choice activities aren’t helping the situation.
“Unfortunately human nature and life are considerably more complex” – indeed they are, except when it comes to you wanting the power to say no to women. Then its all so simple isn’t it.
Reality,
You offer absolutely no evidence to support your claim that abortion in any way promotes better parenting.
“Logic and common sense indicate that the less unwanted children there are the less likely abusive situations are to occur”. Says who? A source or some solid evidence would be much more valid than your definition of logic and common sense.
“No more” was a bit of a pipe dream”. An emotional appeal with no basis in fact would be more accurate.
Reality, your last paragraph is nonsense and does not address the issue. MoJoanne and phillymiss who have worked with abused children, very accurately point out the problem is considerably more complex than your simplistic reasoning.
“You offer absolutely no evidence to support your claim that abortion in any way promotes better parenting” – and yet there you were claiming “abortion in fact does NOT solve social problems” and “the numbers may be the same or less than with legal abortion, right?”
“Says who?” – yeah, I can see why you’d struggle with such a concept ;-)
“A source or some solid evidence would be much more valid than your definition of logic and common sense” – its not ‘my’ definition, it just is.
“No more” was a bit of a pipe dream”. An emotional appeal with no basis in fact would be more accurate” – I doubt it.
“Reality, your last paragraph is nonsense and does not address the issue” – not nonsense, and it does address the issue.
“MoJoanne and phillymiss who have worked with abused children, very accurately point out the problem is considerably more complex than your simplistic reasoning”
– which would be why I said that human nature and life are *indeed* considerably more complex. Missed that did you? The nonsense is in those who would make the topic of abortion so simplistic as to think they should have the power to say no to women.
Reality,
I state the obvious. What social problems have been solved? Poverty, child abuse? Please name one. You’re the one who questioned what the numbers would be if abortion wasn’t legal. So you agree then that you have no idea if the would be worse, the same or maybe even less, right?
What concept?
Here we go again, you don’t have to give any sources, just a proclamation from you suffices.
What do you doubt? Do you think abortion would indeed eliminate child abuse?
Reality, we are discussing the topic you raised: that abortion makes for better parenting. Please stick to the topic you raised. So if you agree human nature and life are indeed considerably more complex, then you agree that abortion is a simplistic solution to child abuse and bad parenting.
Reality, you are assuming that the unborn are not human, because I’m guessing that you would not support killing infants to keep them from being abused.
“Therefore, abortion can be a part of better parenting.”
Reality, If only your mother had been a little better parent….then we wouldn’t all have to suffer your posts.
“I state the obvious” – well no, you don’t actually. What you do is ask questions as if someone has said something they haven’t and you completely ignore what has been said, answers to your questions that you don’t like.
“What social problems have been solved? Poverty, child abuse? Please name one” – ‘solved’? Here is an example of your attempts at chicanery. I did give you an answer to this, it just didn’t suit you.
“You’re the one who questioned what the numbers would be if abortion wasn’t legal.” – yes, using logic and common sense, something you don’t appear to be able to comprehend.
“So you agree then that you have no idea if the would be worse, the same or maybe even less, right?” – there you go again. “so you agree” – no, I don’t agree.
“What concept?” – oh look, confirmation.
“Here we go again, you don’t have to give any sources, just a proclamation from you suffices” – and there you go again, making such a statement after having said “abortion in fact does NOT solve social problems” and “the numbers may be the same or less than with legal abortion, right?”
What do you doubt? Do you think abortion would indeed eliminate child abuse?
“Reality, we are discussing the topic you raised: that abortion makes for better parenting” – wrong again, I didn’t raise it. I responded to it.
“Please stick to the topic you raised” – I’m sticking to the topic which *was* raised, what are you doing?
“So if you agree human nature and life are indeed considerably more complex, then you agree that abortion is a simplistic solution to child abuse and bad parenting” – no, why would I. Stop trying to falsely pre-empt me for a point in your argument.
“Reality, you are assuming that the unborn are not human” – nope, never have. Why do you make such a claim?
“Reality, If only your mother had been a little better parent….then we wouldn’t all have to suffer your posts” – and I find myself wondering where your parents went wrong :-)
Well Reality,
So we can conclude then that you can present no evidence or sources to support the claim you made in your 10/16 7:15PM post.
Can you present evidence or sources to support any claim you make? Ever? Pro-choice folk have wanted, chosen children, therefore they are less likely to suffer abuse etc. That would be logic and common sense.
If you are going to refer back to comments I have made earlier, be thorough about it. Then you might spot where I said “There’s also the not so little fact that we have no way of knowing what the child abuse or foster care numbers might be if abortion wasn’t legal”.
“The findings of these studies of unwanted children paint a clear and disturbing picture of what happens to children when abortion and family planning services are restricted. Forced motherhood and a lack of social support mean that unplanned children too often become victims of life, simply through an accident of birth. And an unwanted child may become an unwanted adult. A recent study in the United States concluded that the legalization of abortion there in 1973 may account for half of the 30-40% reduction in crime that America has experienced since 1991. Legal abortion allows women and men to plan their families and provide for wanted children adequately. The result is more confident, happier, healthier children, who will be more likely to lead fulfilling and constructive lives than their unwanted counterparts.”
David, Henry P. Additional Studies from Sweden, in Born Unwanted: Developmental Effects of Denied Abortion, Henry P. David et al., eds. New York, Springer Publishing Co. 1988.
Dytrych, Zdenek, A. Matejcek and V. Schuller. The Prague Cohort: Adolescence and Early Adulthood, in Born Unwanted: Developmental Effects of Denied Abortion, Henry P. David et al., eds. New York, Springer Publishing Co. 1988.
Reality,
http://www.deveber.org/blog/2010/03/11/does-abortion-reduce-crime-rates
The article acknowledges that since the legalization of abortion there has been an increase in the number of “careless conceptions”. Are these the “unwanted” children you refer to?
“The article acknowledges that since the legalization of abortion there has been an increase in the number of “careless conceptions” – no it doesn’t. Read it again.
Go down about ten paragraphs. They point out what another source says concerning “careless conceptions”. Again, are these the unwanted children you refer to?
Oh I read the piece you are referring to and it does not amount to “The article acknowledges that since the legalization of abortion there has been an increase in the number of “careless conceptions”.
What is it about you and words beginning with ‘a’? You keep claiming that I ‘agree’ or ‘admit’ stuff when I clearly haven’t and here you are claiming an ‘acknowledge’ which isn’t there.
Reality,
Just answer my question. Are these the unwanted children you refer to?
Now your problem is with the word ‘assuming’. Since your claim for ‘careless conceptions’ is NOT acknowledged in the article, you really shouldn’t assume that I will just accept a question based on such a false premise. Therefore my answer to your question must be ‘what unwanted children?’
Reality says:
October 16, 2014 at 7:15 pm
“Out in the real world, where most people think of children as being those little tykes you can actually see running around, terminating unwanted or unviable pregnancies means that the children people do have are the wanted ones, the ones they’ve chosen to have. They are more valued, loved and appreciated. Therefore, abortion can be a part of better parenting.”
Ah, The Velveteen Rabbit. I love that story. Millions love that story.
So heart-warming.
The stuffed animal becomes a human when a child loves it.
Exactly like a fetus. It is not a human until someone loves it.
The author should develop this as a sequel.
Hi TLD, as prescient as usual I see :-)
Reality,
I pointed out where in the article the source for “careless conceptions” is and what it says. Please tell me if these are the unwanted children you refer to.
Hi Reality, hope you are doing great.
It is always sad to me to see you casually dismiss people like me and phillymiss who had very abusive childhoods, as if our deaths would have been preferrable. Come on dude, unwanted children aren’t some lower class of person who needs to be eliminated through death. That certainly doesn’t fix the myriad social, economic, mental health and other issues that contribute to women (and men) with unwanted children abusing them or allowing others to. Sad that it is always “eliminate the kid before the mom can hurt him/her”, instead of help the parents make a stable safe home.
Hi DLPL,
Good to see you back. I’ve been thinking about you and hope all is well. As always, an excellent post.
“I pointed out where in the article the source for “careless conceptions” is and what it says” – and I pointed out that it doesn’t quite say what you’d like to claim it does. It is nothing more than a proposition by one person. Therefore, your question “Please tell me if these are the unwanted children you refer to” is rather moot.
I am doing fine and/or dandy LDPL, I hope things are tracking well for you. I think many of us miss your regular presence.
LDPL, I think you are reading more into it than exists. As Mary herself has said, it ain’t that simple. There is no ‘casual dismissal’ or preference.
Reality,
LOL. So you won’t answer my question then. I didn’t think you would.
Reality,
What I’m saying is that the problem of abuse is not simplistic. Its very complex. Arguing that abortion is some kind of solution is making the problem simplistic, which it is not.
Despite you repeated attempts at alluding to me agreeing or admitting various things Mary, I am a bit too astute to be lured into your falsely premised questions.
i.e. your question is based on assumptions you can’t justify.
“What I’m saying is that the problem of abuse is not simplistic. Its very complex.” – I went along with that, I still do.
“Arguing that abortion is some kind of solution is making the problem simplistic, which it is not” – you’re overreaching. Abortion being one of the solutions to the problem does not make the problem simplistic. Claiming that abortion doesn’t help, now that’s simplistic.
Reality,
But from what my source points out, abortion itself may lead to more “careless conceptions” thus “unwanted children”, I believe the ones you were referring to. For some reason you refuse to answer if they are or not.
Hardly sounds like abortion is solving much of anything.
Unless and until it can be proven that this ‘careless conception’ concept has validity and that there is a direct link to there being ‘unwanted children’ because of it…..
As the studies have shown, abortion is one of the solutions.
Reality,
Well, as my source shows, abortion may not be one of the solutions.
Your source shows no such thing. All it does is raise questions about just one of the various social issues to which abortion can be one of the solutions. And it does so because it is an anti-choice group.
Reality,
LOL. There you go again. You can’t dispute what someone says so the source is wrong and you don’t like where it came from.
Resorting again to your favorite antic. I should have figured as much.
They haven’t said what you keep claiming they’ve said, there’s nothing I need to dispute. If you are going to present a source you could at least interpret it accurately rather than accuse me of disputing it when I point out it doesn’t say what you claim it does.
They raised the question re crime rates because they are an anti-choice group. I simply pointed that out. I didn’t dispute what they said because of that. I’m disputing what you claim they’ve said.
“Resorting again to your favorite antic” – yes, accuracy. Another ‘a’ word which appears to trouble you.
Hi Reality and Mary, I’m doing okay. I miss you guys, just can’t handle commenting much anymore. It gets toxic here a lot.
Anyway, Reality, we’ve gone over this particular subject a million times and I don’t think there’s much else we can say to each other. I really wish you could see how your words come across and the implication of them. Maybe some day.