Buffalo wild wingnuts: Pro-abortion thugs throw dog feces and eggs at pro-lifers, vandalize display
I’d call these hate crimes. Will Obama’s Justice Department? From BuffaloNews.com, today:
Two different pro-life groups conducting public demonstrations have been the victims of criminal offenses….
Earlier this week, a temporary cemetery display of wooden crosses memorializing aborted fetuses was vandalized on the University of Buffalo’s North Campus.
And last week, several individuals praying outside a Buffalo abortion clinic were pelted with eggs and dog feces, according to authorities….
In all, the UB Students for Life’s Cemetery of Innocents display of 330 crosses was vandalized three times during the three days it was up.
First, someone(s) took the crosses down between last Sunday night and Monday morning and put them in garbage bags. At least they were neat. Images of the perpetrators were captured on university police surveillance camera (above), although the police have not yet captured the perpetrators…
SFLers put the crosses back in place but later spotted a woman and man pulling them up again. The big, bad tough guy taught one of the crosses a lesson by kicking and breaking it. Then he was arrested:
Police charged Jake M. DiVeronica [pictured right, from his Amazon profile] 21, of Canastota, with criminal mischief….
UB police continue to investigate, and a $500 reward has been offered for information leading to additional arrests.
Jake outted himself on the UBFreethinkers Facebook page, although his lawyer must have told him to delete his confession, because it’s now gone. Fortunately, our side saved a screen shot. Warning, a little vulgarity…
Finally, Tuesday, a small mob tried to destroy the display yet again. An SFLer reported in an email, “At one point an older woman, who was with a group of 7 girls, shouted, ‘Let’s start a riot.'”
UB Students for Life ended their display Tuesday evening. Here’s what it looked like when not being vandalized by pro-aborts…
And here are our bold, brave, and committed UB pro-life students. We’re proud of you!
This was the second time UB Students for Life has erected a Cemetery of Innocents display this year… and the second time their display has been repeatedly vandalized.
The pro-life group that was pelted with dog feces and eggs is part of the 40 Days for Life campaign standing vigil outside the Buffalo WomenServices abortion mill. There have been no arrests in that crime.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
On my what a horrible tale of harassment and intimidation…. meanwhile yesterday my local PP “where my wife and daughter go for their annual exam” had a Pro-lifer throw a rock through the front window shattering it and almost hit a client as they were walking out the front door… I tell you what the next time someone bombs a pro-life display I will feel sorry for you… until then you should worry about your own group as they are the ones making bombs and murdering doctors… oh and throwing rocks at women…
Oh, please, Biggz. You’re so pathetic. Every time I come on here, which is not that often, I see one of your stupid opinions cluttering the board. Why don’t you find something better to do with the copious amounts of free time you seem to have. Don’t you realize that NO ONE takes you seriously here? Are you really that desperate for attention? Well, I guess I’ve given you what you want: more attention. Now that you got it, why don’t you slither onto whatever other sites or blogs you undoubtedly troll when you’re not whining over here and see if you can get someone to give you attention over there.
THAT’S MY FRIEND!!!!! (Bottom picture, far right!) So proud :)
Biggz,
I hope you are getting all of this violence on tape!! I hope you are calling the authorities!!
You make your wife and daughter go to an abortion clinic to get pap smears? Aren’t you working hard enough to provide the means for your wife and daughter to see real doctors Biggz? My husband and I are pretty poor and have to pay our own health insurance but even I can afford to see a doctor (not an abortionist) for my pap smear. You are so full of lies Biggz which are very easy to see through.
Yeah, pro-lifers are violent and you pro-dead baby types are so peaceful. Tell that to Jim Puillion. Oh wait, you can’t because he’s DEAD. Killed by a pro-abort. For being pro-life.
The thing is if pro-abortion people set up a display of crosses for women who died in self-abortions I wouldn’t be upset or vandalize it. They think fetuses are nothing and we are kooks yet they lend much credibility to our side and our argument that fetuses are human beings when they get SO bent out of shape and go ballistic knocking over crosses, cursing etc…
Biggz said my unborn son or daughter is nothing more than a roach. If someone set up a cross display for roaches would anyone care? These pro-abortion types react with so much guilt and anger you know they know in their hearts that human fetuses are not roaches but defenseless and tiny human beings. And that killing them is wrong.
Yes the police were called and a report was taken. You can ask any of the Pro-life people you know in NE Portland about it and they will tell you the window is still shattered. I see them protesting outside that health center everyday as I am going to work.
See you guys face fake threats where as Pro-choice people face violence and murder. There is no denying the numbers and the FBI reports.
Someone kicked over your little crosses…
Melisa – Thanks for being so rude… This is a discussion blog, if there were no people like me in here it would just be a giant echo chamber bouncing the same lies back and fourth… you might as well have a conversation in a mirror if that is your attitude. I am sorry if I feel it necessary to inject a bit of reality into this blog but really knocked over crosses… while doctors are wearing bullet proof vests to work and buying bullet proof cars and still being murdered, at church, in front of their families. Oh I know I know “those people are not pro-lifers” B.S.!!! Every single person who has murdered a doctor, or bombed a health center were “sidewalk counselors” before they went nuts and decided that they were killing in the name of god… Every single one of them were pro-life protestors to start with. Every single one of them…
Sidney – Your absolute misquote of me shows your bias. What I said was that having babies is not a big deal, even cockroaches reproduce… I never called your child any name at all. Let’s be quite honest here Jim Puillion was shot by a pissed off boyfriend of a woman he harassed as she was walking into the health center. It is not like he was minding his own business and was attacked.
But ok I will grant you that one example… would you like me to yet again post the numbers of murdered doctors and clinics bombed or set on fire? I thought not…
Oh and my wife and I both have insurance and they could go to any doctor they want but they like their DOCTOR at PP.
Oh, the pro-aborts.
Such a classy bunch.
Only a true pro-baby killer would tell a woman who is overjoyed by her long awaited pregnancy that its nothing special, even cockroaches reproduce. Way to be pro-woman Biggz. You’re a bully and male chauvinist as always.
But love how you just slipped and called my unborn a “child”. Oopsies! You meant to say “product of conception” of course.
Oh and Jim was not shot by a “pissed off boyfriend”. The killer admitted he targeted Jim for being pro-life. Get your facts straight!
Pro-aborts ARE violence and murder, Biggz.
you might as well have a conversation in a mirror if that is your attitude.
Sure, Biggz…a mirror with thousands and thousands of people in it (mostly women like us)…who all vote! XD
didnt you pro death people used to identify yourselves as “bastions of tolerance”? where is your tolerance ? and if you are for choice then you ought to allow us to choose to have our crosses up harassment free.
GOOD FOR YOU, BIGGZ!! Report the violence!! That person should be in jail!
But violence against a prolifer? Meh.
It’s definitely very, very wrong when either side goes from peaceful demonstration to aggression and bullying, even going as far as vandalism and violence. I have seen it from both sides.
Biggz, much as I dislike PP I definitely think that vandalizing them and terrorizing the employees and customers is flat out wrong. Just as wrong as throwing stuff at lifers and vandalizing their memorials and such is absolutely wrong.
Agreed, Jack!
Biggz, last time I stood outside of Planned Parenthood praying during 40 days for Life two young males threatened to rape me because I was pro-life. Do you think that was acceptable?
i hope jake is convicted and not accepted to college because of his criminal record.
sydney i find that totally disgusting but i will bet you biggz will duck and dodge that one. i know the things the pro deathers say. i survived the burbs. their pro death mommies should be so proud.
Dog feces – apparently that’s the best logical argument they have….
if they ever threw dog poop at me id make themb eat it!
Biggz is the typical profile of a pro-deather. Anger, filled with hate ‘n’ lies. Oh, how he loves his five seconds of fame, no matter what the comments may bring. Very sad indeed. Tolerance is only accepted in the pro-choice arena.
He was in my personal prayer intention @ pro-life Holy Hour tonight. May God remove his hardness of heart.
Amen to that, Carol! :D
Looks like even Jake’s “freethinking” friends think he was being a jerk. They had to tell him “free thought” means both sides!
gee biggz did that rock tossing slip your mind the day before yesterday? or did it take you that long to think of the story? couldnt help but notice that youre just now mentioning it. im with carla…..hope you called the cops!
Been there, done that, with the egg-pelting thing. The pro-aborts really do hate the first amendment when others are deploying it. But I have to give them credit on the dog poop thing! Anyone who would pick up dog poop–even with a glove–must be truly committed to his or her principles. You can’t accuse them of being lukewarm, that’s for sure.
If it were a pro-choice display and students vandalized their display or attacked them while they protested, there’d be a big outrage across pro-choice groups. Yet we hear a message along the lines of, “That’s what you get for setting up such a contraversial and digusting display” (more or less) from pro-choicers here. Hypocrisy much? Bastions of tolerance? Last time I checked, the right to peacefully assemble & free speech applied to everyone (not just those whose views you agree with), no matter how offensive you find their views.
For all those who sign on to political correctness, notice how wonderfully DIVERSE the pro-life bunch looks?
I tell you what the next time someone bombs a pro-life display I will feel sorry for you… until then you should worry about your own group as they are the ones making bombs and murdering doctors… oh and throwing rocks at women…
Oh I know I know “those people are not pro-lifers”
So, even by your own admission, the pro-life movement rejects those who resort to violent measures. Whereas you, right here on this thread, have deemed pro-choice violence acceptable so long as they “aren’t as bad as what those pro-lifers do to us.”
Forgive me if I find your argument somewhat…schizophrenic. I’m sorry you were threatened. Maybe this rather poorly constructed endorsement of violence and threats comes as a response to that experience. But do you really mean to say that it is acceptable to threaten people who disagree with you (put them through the same fear you experienced), because you were threatened yourself?
yeah now that you pro deathers have given us the label of anti choice a pastor in our group instructed us to call you pro death. he explined “they dont want choice they want death” i can think just fine for myself so i observed and concluded that if your choice isnt abortion youre wrong. how dare you choose motherhood over a college education? dont you know you will end up in section8 housing with a bunch of screamin brats? no. just have an abortion. …….too bad all of these college graduates wont have a job when they get out. the economy wont ever pick up. you know why? because god is watching us from heaven and we have kicked him out of the public fool (school) system. we have turned our backs on god and we want power and control over everything. yet we control nothing. think anything is going to improve? nope. its going to get worse. we have killed 80 million in the name of choice. and im just guessing. its probably much greater. gay marriage is an abomination. god is watching. may you find him today or you will stay lost. there is no sin he wont forgive. forgive yourself. god provides for my family because i have faith and that is the only reason. i hit my knees and pray.
oh yeah and mass geocide…(abortion) is also an abomination. god had a plan and a purpose for all of those children. just as god has a plan and a purpose for all of us here.
biggz said something about the pro aborts fear death……just look at the fbi reports…..lol now i want to see that proof! its very unusual to see a pro lifer hurl a rock at anyone because we are too composed and afraid to do things like that. we have a very far left pro abortion president for petes sake. ive seen plenty of pro aborts cry wolf though. the abortion clinics will even watch to make sure you dont so much as step on their grass. a pro lifer will go right to jail for that. a guy in our group was maced as 2 african american women were driving away after one aborted. they yelled “move you fat f@@@” and sprayed him. nothing was done. but as long as biggz keeps posting hes great for a laugh.
Abortion fans like to comment here that the “vast majority” of Americans are pro-choice. But they can’t stay away as evidenced by long term chronic death mongering that we all can read here. They say if they don’t comment, that we will just be a large pro-life echo chamber and it’s their duty to prevent that. Gee, why? If the “vast majority” (so many anti-lifers use this phrase) of people favor abortion, why worry? Won’t we just wear ourselves out eventually? Hmm?
It’s definitely very, very wrong when either side goes from peaceful demonstration to aggression and bullying, even going as far as vandalism and violence. I have seen it from both sides.
Biggz, much as I dislike PP I definitely think that vandalizing them and terrorizing the employees and customers is flat out wrong. Just as wrong as throwing stuff at lifers and vandalizing their memorials and such is absolutely wrong.
I agree, Jack, and I think that most people here do, too.
Dang, Biggaz, if prolifers are so terrible, why do you keep on coming to this “echo chamber?”
@Sydney, – that’s really terrible that that happened to you, and you are visibly pregnant. I don’t have the time to look up the link, but Beyonce said her pregnancy makes her feel “empowered.” I am glad that you are happy about your pregnancy and wish you a safe and happy birthing experience. I think the day I had my (unplanned) daughter was one of the happiest of my life.
I grew up in Buffalo, unfortunately. I hated there, not only because of the cold and snow but because it was extremely racist. Anyway, the University of Buffalo is very liberal, but I am surprised at the feces-throwing incident. That’s pretty nasty. Even at the (People’s) University of Pennsylvania the pro-aborts don’t do things like that.
Stay classy, UB.
BWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!
Can someone please find out if they took down that post completely or just blocked me? I had been having a debate with the Anthro prof. who I believe is the sponsor of the http://www.facebook.com/UBFreethinkers on that facebook post, and I had just posted my second rebuttal to him, and now I can’t access the thread.
Looks like they deleted you, X. Lol! I would have loved to see that, it’s unfortunate they can’t take criticism.
X, I’m not seeing anything in regards to this post on their FB page.
But gosh, for being “freethinkers,” they’re certainly all for intolerance of religious people in general. How very, very “freethinking” of them.
I will post something, see how long it takes them to delete it.
LUCKILY, I happen to have written my response posted in a note because it was rather lengthy, so I can post it up here when I get home. ;)
*does her little “I WIN!” dance*
Seriously, I’ve ALWAYS approached Pro-Life with nothing but a scientific perspective. My position on this matter has been informed by years of scientific study (I was a biology major pre-vet. med. in college) and observation being the oldest of 6 children in my family and having birthed two children myself. I don’t think you can get much more experimental accuracy than going through the process of pregnancy/birth yourself after having also been conceived and carried to term one’s self. I mean, for crying outloud, how many more experimental trials are needed to illustrate “gestating human organism = human being”? If these guys have encountered nothing but religious pro-lifers in their travels, I sincerely feel sorry for them having run into me. ;P
im sure they are only freethinkers if you are freely thinking of abortion.
Lol X, let me know when you post it so I can see the fun.
But it’s ok, because apparently they’re going to have a debate with SFL-UB about abortion! My comment to that post:
“Great! You can’t delete comments or threads from a live, in-person debate, so this should prove to be much more constructive!”
Ha, I saw that. They still haven’t bothered answering my post about how in the world can they consider themselves free thinkers when they quash dissent.
This behavior is deplorable! No one should engage in this type of behavior. I am close with a Woman who disagrees with me on this issue, and as heated as our exchanges get, we know that rational conversation is possible.
That said, those who live in glass houses need to stop throwing stones.
http://www.naral.org/media/fact-sheets/abortion-anti-choice-violence.pdf
http://abortionviolence.com/
Separate from the violence that is happening outside of the womb, pro-choice IS the support of violence. What is more violent than having an innocent human being poisoned, ripped apart limb by limb, burned alive, stabbed in the head, or left to die in a cold room or some place unsanitary when all of the above fails?
Pro-choice/pro-abort people who are indignant over aggression towards abortionists and abortion mills need to take a good, hard look at the inhumane, disgusting results of what they are supporting.
The UB Students for Life had a beautiful and touching display. I agree that this is a hate crime against Christians. I hope that Mr. Jake DiVeronica is charged with a hate crime then tried and convicted. With any luck his actions will follow him through his professional life and he will be repeatedly questioned regarding this act when interviewing for employment. No pity – actions have consequences.
“But gosh, for being “freethinkers,” they’re certainly all for intolerance of religious people in general. How very, very “freethinking” of them.”
And my comment here still awaits approval.
Must be a little cognitive dissonance between your contention that the pro-life movement is not just Christian and the fact that the crosses were all Christian – which is what, in your minds, constitutes a hate crime – which means that you’re admitting that your movement is Christian.
Got hypocrisy?
Are all aborted fetuses Christian?
Your avoidance of the issue is very telling, indeed.
Hmmm, I’m thinking of contributing a “diary” to RH Reality Check about how the “pro-life” movement doesn’t want to address questions about the religiousity of their supposed scientifically based movement. If not a diary, at least a comment.
right sharon k. i printed the same thing upstream. nobody wants a lil menace on campus. or maybe mini terrorist. either way hes a vandal and he has a problem with impulse control. i dont think many colleges want someone like him as a student.
@cc…..where all fetuses christian? no but they were all alive!
I think he should be punished reasonably. If a single act of vandalism followed you around and ruined your life, I would consider that cruel and unusual.
CC, mourning the dead can be done in various ways. One way is to show the truth, which means displaying photos of how they were killed: mangled by abortion. Another way is to hold a quiet memorial in remembrance of them. Regardless of what religion they practice or if they are not religious at all, decent people will maintain some level of respect for those crosses for the same reason you shouldn’t desecrate tombstones and cemeteries.
Even if this student pro-life group put out plastic baby dolls on the lawn to represent the prenatal babies killed by abortion, spiteful pro-aborts would still vandalize the display, just like they vandalize the little crosses and any photos of aborted babies they come across. That’s intolerance of religious expression AND science.
btw, are all Christian doctors, pharmacists, nurses, and technicians anti-science? Last I checked, it’s okay to be scientific AND openly Christian. ;-)
anyone who took part in that destructive act needs to be punished. i dont want a doctor or a nurse or a social worker taking care of my family members or me who acts like this. what if jake wants to be a nurse or a doctor. dont touch me.
an older lady said “lets start a riot.” biggz says “awww so they knocked over your little crosses” nope the young people who cant control their behavior grow up to be adults who cant. throw em all in anger management. they need it as do some of these older terrorists:o
Oh Pulease CC,
Give it up.
Like you really want to carry on a respectful conversation with anyone here. You are only here to incite. I picture you waiting at your keyboard, ready to pounce on what anyone says in regards to your comment. Doesn’t really matter what anyone writes does it?? Silence isn’t all that telling when folks are ignoring you. Run along now to RH Check.
I see you have picked up the term “cognitive dissonance” though. Cute.
Violence and threats of violence on either side is wrong, and should not be tolerated.
However I do see that the Pro-Life side will always condemn any of those who do any violence and distance themselves from those that choose to do so, yet I rarely see the same from the Pro-abortion side. Seems to prove that those that are Pro-Abortion have no respect or value for life, whether it be for unborn babies or anyone else. And they are only Pro-choice as long as you agree with them.
Heather, I didn’t say that he shouldn’t be punished at all. Anger management would be a great idea. I just think it’s wrong to think someone should be followed around the rest of their life by something they did wrong. A lot of people make really bad mistakes, we would all be in trouble if no one was given the chance to turn their life around.
Sorry it took me so long to get home. I was down in the city trying to find the location of a clinic where I will be “harassing” women next Saturday morning. I can’t wait. I’m taking a picture of my daughter with me.
“I’ve only ever heard souls come up among anti-choice religious types”
Wow. I’ve never had a discussion about abortion with anyone who was opposed to choices. Choices are pretty wonderful, and I rather like them, myself. I’m anti-abortion, as are most other activists like myself. We have no problem with choices. However, the decision to prematurely end the life of one’s living child should never be a legal one to make.
“Never heard the “soul shows up later” thing, from pro or anti-choice.”
Well, there’s a first time for everything, and trust me, I’ve heard it from christian pro-legal-abortionists A LOT. That, or that abortion is ok, because god will just take that child’s soul to heaven and they won’t be forced to suffer on Earth. Your position has much more support from dogmatists than you like to imagine, I suppose. Sorry to burst your bubble.
“The only thing I’ve come across involving a temporal aspect is viability/ability to survive outside the womb, which seems fair to me.”
“Seems fair” only because you’re able to survive on your own, I surmise. I’m guessing that if someone else decided you were fit to be killed since you couldn’t fully sustain yourself (perhaps you lacked the ability to grow crops or hunt, and in their view that made you unworthy of “personhood”) you’d protest in your favor.
“Anyway, at least once the soul part is dropped, we’re working on honest terms. Thank you for that!”
You’re quite welcome for that. I and my cohorts have been doing so for quite some time. Sorry it would appear you’re rather late to the party. If you’re looking for more information about those like myself, I suggest you visit secularprolife.org
“Personally, I’m not one to say “life begins at birth”–the damn thing is a human life upon conception, as far as I’m concerned. The current civic deal of “life begins at birth” is absurd, only the right-wing knows it, and they shouldn’t be allowed that rhetorical advantage.”
But I do so enjoy my advantage when one flaunts biological ignorance! Please, please, PLEASE don’t take that away from me! ;)
You say that a living human being indeed exists from conception: why should all living human beings NOT have their rights protected under the law, at least the very most basic right to continue living? You admit that these are living human beings who are being killed, and yet you won’t allow them to at least be given this one chance to live that we all currently enjoy? For all intents and purposes, the bodies of DEAD human beings enjoy more protection under the law than those living human beings currently gestating. How is that a rational position to maintain?
“I posit that the question becomes what “personhood” is defined as, and if a zygote/embryo/fetus fits what we consider a “person” to be–thus deserving of rights. If they don’t have rights, so be it.”
Contrary to most other pro-lifers, I refuse to indulge our opposition in their notion that “some living human beings are persons, and others are not”. I will not join them in engaging in such discriminatory practices, and I therefore refuse to use the terms “personhood”, “person”, etc. when describing or discussing human beings. A dangerous precedent has been set throughout history when it comes to assigning the descriptor of “person” to some living human beings and “non-person” to others. If “personhood” to you means that an individual has qualified for legal protection of their right to live under the law, then so be it. But I submit to you that EVERY living human being deserves such a right, at minimum, and anything less is nothing but the most abhorrent discriminatory practice imaginable, because it results in countless deaths both now by the thousands annually and in the millions over the course of human history.
“But if they’re a “person” and they have any rights, do their rights still trump those of the parents?”
No rights of parents are “trumped” by protecting the right of a gestating human to live. No right exists that allows a parent to kill their child. No right exists which allows a parent to refuse to provide resources to their child at the cost of that child’s life. No law exists which allows a parent to dismember or cause deadly physical harm to their child. Even in the event of a young minor child initially causing harm to their parent is there no law stating that a parent may use deadly force on their child, and pregnancy (in almost 99.9% of cases) causes no such harm, anyway. Any such statement that I hear made by pro-legal-abortionists always neglects the parent-child relationship between a gestating human and their parent(s). A pregnant woman by default has custody of her child, and in no other circumstance but abortion is such egregious treatment of a child allowed by law of a child by a parent. I mean, if a random stranger on the street came up to me, tried to unbutton my shirt, pull down my bra, and manipulate my breasts, you’d better BELIEVE I’d advocate the use of EXTREME force to remove him from my person and preserve my bodily autonomy. However, if my exclusively breast-fed infant or toddler exhibited similar behavior, any such use of force would land me in prison, posthaste.
“If they have rights, what else should probably be owed rights?”
“What else”? Probably nothing (although, as was stated previously, even a dead human body-which would not be considered a “someone” but more of an object-has certain rights, and as of this writing, more rights than gestating living human beings). WHO else? I don’t know, but once again, even most common companion animals have more rights than gestating human beings, depending upon your state of residence, and I can’t help but feel that this is a sorry state of affairs, to say the least.
“Anti-choice types don’t irk me so much–especially as long as they’re coming from a rational, secular, scientific perspective–because a secular, humanistic argument can be made against abortion”
Thank you for at least acknowledging that. Can you please stop calling us “anti-choice” now? You know there is only ONE decision one chooses to make that I oppose. Seriously. Like, literally, anyone can choose to do anything they want as long as it doesn’t harm another human being. I really don’t care.
“I disagree with it because I feel “personhood” relies on a number of physical and cognitive processes that fetuses don’t have”
Oh really? What other neurological functions can someone be incapable of that make it ok to kill them? Is it alright to shoot someone with an extreme case of amnesia in the head since they’ve essentially never experienced anything in their lives that they aren’t immediately experiencing at that moment? What other (essentially) disabilities must a living human be afflicted with that somehow warrant our wanton killing of said human, and please enlighten me also as to why it should?
I happen to think the ability to juggle is what makes one TRULY a person. I have always inherently known how to juggle. It makes me feel so alive, and really is the easiest thing to do in the world. Most everyone I know also knows how to juggle, and we enjoy juggling with each other often. Juggling is the one thing a human being can do that I feel really captures the essence of what it means to be a person, and I have no respect for anyone who cannot juggle. I cannot help but feel that non-jugglers really are less than persons, and I don’t think that I should have to wait at an intersection in my car while non-jugglers cross the street. It makes me late for work and affects my livelihood and my ability to maintain my lifestyle, because while I’m waiting for those non-jugglers to cross the street, I’m late to work, and my boss docks my paycheck. I should be able to run those non-jugglers over.
As far as Peter Singer goes…do you really think you should appeal to his reason when you yourself are “ok with” a ban on late-term abortions? You realize he doesn’t think that INFANTS should necessarily be protected by the law, right?
“Admitting what an uncertain and cloudy situation it is would also seem to support the position of “leave it up to personal conscience and keep the state and its coercion the hell out of it.”
I’m not admitting that it is an uncertain and cloudy situation in the least. It’s pretty cut-and-dry, really. All human beings should have the right to live and to not be killed without at least due process first. See? Simple.
Many things can be left up to “personal conscience”. The decision of whether or not to have one’s child exterminated is not one of those things.
oh jack im really half kidding. they had better just be glad im not judge judy. maybe this mistake will work out for the greater good for all of them…..but if they do this aaaaaagaaaaain now????
And CC actually does make a good point (beside the top of her head, for the first time in her life). I don’t think he should be charged with a hate crime. First because I don’t believe in the concept of “hate crime”. Crime is crime, period. Secondly because she’s right-abortion is not a religious issue. Punk should be prosecuted for vandalism though.
its pretty basic though. if something doesnt belong to you dont touch it. dont destroy it or you will have to pay for it. its just like when vandals spray paint and desecrate graves. why? you cant even let the dead rip?
X, I agree with you that I hate the concept of “hate crime”. Crime is indeed crime. BUT I love to beat the liberals at their own game. This kid vandalized out of intolerance (that magic word). So I say charge him with a hate crime.
biggz says:
“I tell you what the next time someone bombs a pro-life display I will feel sorry for you”
First of all no one here is talking about bombs except you, biggz, Secondly, it seems nothing would delight you more than an act of violence against an abortuary. Third, this “I will feel sorry for you” is something I read as a thinly veiled threat because it is not the first time we have heard such from biggz. One other time he suggested that there would be dire consequences (my words, but same meaning) should some prolifer upset one of his family members while at a clinic.
This business of throwing feces is the mentality we have to deal with, and it is not getting better. There are all sorts of goons, idiots, and bullies that regularly assualt peaceful pro-lifers and destroy pro-lifers’ property.
I have to agree with Jack – it’s not as if the vandals murdered anyone in this act. Anger management, community service, written apology, fine…these are all more relational to the punishment than explosion. As Christians we should practice forgiveness.
Hate crime means that you are targeting a specific group. A racial group, a sexual orientation, a religion.
If you destroy something simply because you were drunk or bored, the consequences are less than if you did so because you hate the group that is holding the event – and it should be that way. It’s discrimination and bigotry.
CC, honestly, you have been here reading posts long enough to know that not all pro-lifers are Christian; some are Jewish, some are other religions, secular, agnostic or atheist. Yeah, I get it; because of your personal hatred for Christianity, especially Catholicism, and your desire to make the pro-life cause something you can hate with a passion, you have to believe that the pro-life cause is the fault of all those eeeevil Christians.
Which in a way beats you trying to argue on scientific grounds, because I already know you can’t do that to save your life.
None of us put up the memorial, so none of us knows why the UB PFL’s put all crosses there instead of menorahs, etc. Wny don’t you ask them yourself? Their e-mail address can’t be hard to find.
For what it’s worth, I think it would be a good idea to acknowledge by symbols that the aborted babies come from mothers of many faiths (I actually answered this to someone here a while back on another occasion when it was discussed; I don’t know whether it was you or not).
Too bad you can’t ask your questions without a sneer; you might actually get better answers if you ask straight questions.
Students for Life of America is a Christian group – so that is why they used crosses.
But if a secular group – such as Secular Profile (look it up if you’re interested, could be useful to you) – wanted to hold a pro-life event, they could surely use tombstones without crosses to make a point. The crosses are supposed to represent graves and could just as easily be another shape.
As an employee of Students for Life of America that has been working with the UB pro-life students, I wanted to make two points here:
1 – SFLA is not an explicitly Christian organization, and not everyone on staff is Christian (or religious).
2 – The UB students had initially wanted to use flags instead of crosses (SFLA bulk orders flag sets for student groups to use in Cemetery of the Innocents displays), but were unable to secure them in time. A local pro-lifer had the crosses, and they chose to use them instead of waiting a few more weeks to set up the display.
hey x let us know how the harassment at the clinic. will this be your first time? my prayers will be with you. im sure you will be there to help women make an informed choice. thats why i went. took a break when i had my son but we will be back! you are going to see it all. and you are ging to hear it all. you will see who really harasses who! best of luck friend!
Thank you, Phil!
God bless you and the work you do with Students for Life America!
amber and jack i was kind of kidding. no chain jake in a room forever and give him bread and water for the next 50 years. this was a minor crime and jake will probably get a slap on the wrist and the matter will be dropped. we all know it. that said also know that we live in a society that is quite unforgiving. when i apply for a job i have to be finger printted. im a nurse so they are looking for any violence or drug abuse. i know convicted felons who want to give up because they cant find jobs. its harder on them and i feel bad. i dont want to see jakes life destroyed. but now is he bragging about his act or is he sorry? thats what im looking at. now throwing dog poop at someone is worse than spitting on them. that should also be a crime. im tolerant of the lunatics to a point but if someone did that to me im not sure of what id do. now if jake gets off and does it again then thats it!
i think the problem is that parents with no morals breed kids with no morals. my girlfriend is with silent no more after her abortion at age 14. she is a fantastic mother with some of the best behaved kids ive ever met. shes teaching them morals that she wasnt taught. jake probably has a pro death mom or dad. no morals at all. or maybe he has some female friends who have aborted and he may have done it to impress them. perhaps hes just a jerk by nature. who knows.
When I see these stories, it reminds me of a quote from Ghandi:
“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”
It looks like we are in stage three in Buffalo… more than halfway there.
““What else”? Probably nothing (although, as was stated previously, even a dead human body-which would not be considered a “someone” but more of an object-has certain rights, and as of this writing, more rights than gestating living human beings). WHO else? I don’t know, but once again, even most common companion animals have more rights than gestating human beings, depending upon your state of residence, and I can’t help but feel that this is a sorry state of affairs, to say the least.”
You’re confusing rights and restrictions. Animals and corpses don’t have rights simply because certain conduct against them is prohibited any more than a window has a right not to have a brick thrown through it.
Sorry, joan. I know how you Pro-legal-abortionists feel about choice of words. Would you prefer “legal protections” rather than “rights”? Because, if you say that you can’t harm or damage someone/something, that by default grants them a legal protection (which is the same thing, essentially…you’re once again just splitting linguistic hairs). 9_9
Plus, I made many statements in that rebuttal. A lot of ground was covered. If THAT is the ONLY point of contention you can find with it, joan, I see why they deleted the thread now. Thanks for shedding some light on the subject for me. ;)
dont know how many of you remember the story of amy grossberg and brian peterson. they were 18 years old and both were in college. they had a whopper of a secret though. amy was hiding her pregnancy from everyone except brian. they did not attend the same college so on a cold november night when amys water broke she called brian. the 2 drove to the comfort inn where amy gave birth. brian kept pleading with her tell her parents. amy refused. anyway the 2 took the newborn put him in a garbage bag and tossed him into a dumpster. both returned to college but what amy didnt know is that she was suffering from pre eclampsia. this is an illness some pregnant women have and it can be fatal. amy thought she was in the clear and tried to return to her normal routine. except she was suffering from severe nausea headaches and swelling. the placenta was still inside her. at about 5pm the evening after the birth amy had a massive seizure in her dorm. she refused to go to the hospital as paramedics responded. her bp was 210/130. finally she agreed to go but told the medics “but you cant call my parents.”
once grossberg was at the hospital the questions were quickly fired at her “are you pregnant or have you been pregnant”? grossberg “no” “when was your last period or the last time you ate”? grossberg “am i going to be okay” as the hospital staff slipped her out of her clothing and into a gown, another seizure/convulsion so bad that amys back arched off the table. they gave her magnesium sulfate to stem the convulsions and valium to calm her nerves. the er staff soon realized the problem when they noticed amys swollen abdomen. they tried to listen for a heartbeat. they paged a doc. from ob who immediatly noticed the signs of eclampsia.
the obgyn looked lower and noted the placenta at amys cervix. she was made to deliver it and it was sent for testing. the medical staff kept questioning her “where is your baby” “where was your baby born”? grossberg “i dont know. her nurse said that in 30 years of nursing shed never seen so much swelling. amys tongue was so swollen it protruded from amys mouth. “what happened”? amys disgusted nurse asked her once she was stabilized……”i had a miscarriage.” amys nurse “when was that”? amy “monday or early tuesday.” the hospital secuity guard warned amy “youre not gvoing back to your college until you tell us where the baby is.” games up. amy refused to talk. the police were called. amy was sent to the maternity icu and her parents found out. she spent several days in the hospital and was taken to prison.
the me concluded that the baby died of blunt force trauma to the head and multiple skull fractures (not caused by him being tossed into the dumpster) after the boy was born amy screamd at brian “get rid of it, get rid of it”!!!!! brian dashed to his car to get the garbage bag leaving grossberg alone with the baby. there was a lot of speculation as to what amy may have done while alone with a baby she did not want. as brian slipped the baby into the trash bag grossberg asked him “is it a boy or a girl”? before brian could answer amy cut him off and said “never mind.”
this crime took place in 1996 and grossberg only served 2 and a half years. peterson got less time. i have never forgotten baby boy grossberg. he is in a new jersey jewish cemetery. amy is in business making cards with her parents (she was an art major in college) brian moved to jupiter florida and got married. a reporter tracked him down and asked him “how do you feel about your dead son,brian” his cold reply “i dont think about him.”…..now those are 2 people who should still be in prison. (my opinion)
Sorry, heather, but I’m kinda lost. What does this have to do with our current discussion?
oh yes my point… many people pleaded with the justice system and said “good kids who did a bad thing.” let them out. “they made a mistake.” yep its called murder but women who commit infanticide are not paying for it.
sorry got tied up making dinner and playing with the tyke. i was also going to ask shouldnt 40 years of abortion on demand…wasnt that meant to eliminate infanticide? also why arent these women getting time? they were 18 and did 2 years for killing their son.
and which organization showed amy n brian the most sympathy? planned parenthood.
putting around on the “freethinker’s” facebook some more…These people aren’t interested in free-thinking. They’re reactionary at best. Anything they think MIGHT be identified with religion, the vilify and take what they feel is the opposite position in a knee-jerk reaction. Attacking conservatism and republicans without caring to think about the actual ideas.
On one hand I want to say”why didn’t she just get an abortion” though I am very much against it – if she was hiding it from her family and then tossed it in the trash, wouldn’t an abortion have been easier?
And if they don’t prosecute people for getting abortions, I sometimes wonder how they justify prosecuting those who kill newborns.
That is a slippery slope we are on if we don’t end abortion.
Disgusting.
“But gosh, for being “freethinkers,” they’re certainly all for intolerance of religious people in general. How very, very “freethinking” of them.”
And my comment here still awaits approval.
Gee, could that be because your comments contain repeated anti-Catholic and anti-Christian inflammatory statements which, as described in the rules of commenting here for this site, are not allowed? Yeah. Prolly.
If you’re gonna call yourself a “freethinker” (like that FB page does) and then refuse to tolerate anyone else’s freedom of speech, I think you have a problem with your freethinking. The fact that you even GET to comment here (when your comments don’t break the rules of this board) is proof that we welcome discussion if it is done respectfully.
Abortion is easier than delivering a baby and suffocating it?
Hmmm. In abortion the mother rarely sees what the procedure does to her child. Less messy than delivery and murder by suffocation? I suppose.
A dead baby is the same outcome in each scenario.
After living with my abortion experience for 21 years now I wouldn’t even put the word “easy” near the word abortion. But that’s just me.
Oh and CC?
Your comments where deleted by me. So approval denied.
But you already knew that.
With much love
Carla
The Freethinking Police
Dear Phil,
I am so sorry to hear of the loss of Kortney and her 21 week preborn daughter Sophy. I am in prayer for Kortney’s husband. He has lost his wife and daughter.
Also praying for the Students for Life staffer in critical condition.
http://www.lifenews.com/2011/10/09/students-for-life-staffer-unborn-baby-die-in-tragic-accident/
well amber i also told that story to show you that 40 years of abortion on demand hasnt solved anything. we had 2 profile cases here (jessica coleman was on oprah) she got six years for stabbing her son to death after hiding her pregnancy at 15. she didnt come forward until the guilt ate her alive at age 22. but 2 years and 6 years for killing a baby out of the womb? are they kidding. thats clod blooded murder. and grossbergs boyfriend took out money twice so that she could abort. she feared getting an infection and worried that her mom would find out. read the book its called “always in our hearts” by doug most. its a great read. and id also like to point out that abortion made life cheap. thats why these mothers dont get much jail time at all. children dont matter.~thanks abortion!
According to the guy’s tweet, he did it because he is anti religion. Now the question is whether he would also throw feces at Muslims and Buddhists. If not then he is anti Christian. So, is attacking people because of their religion a hate crime? Or is it a hate crime only if the religionists are not Christians?
” i was also going to ask shouldnt 40 years of abortion on demand…wasnt that meant to eliminate infanticide?”
No policy, good or bad, is going to eradicate homicide, infanticide, mental illness, etc. Heck, we still have isolated cases of cannibalism. The point of laws, policies and punishments is to marginalize anti social behaviors.
how much was the cross worth? hopefully a lot so he has to pay it all back! I knew some people from Canistota back in the day there all muck wombats! Peggy Enuncio used to be the queen of the wombats in the muck back in the 70’s! i wonder if she’s still around there