Miracles
Abortion not only kills babies and sometimes their mothers, it kills miracles. It kills hope.
From HattiesburgAmerican.com, May 11:
Judy and Yu Loong [Liew] were born in Malaysia, and moved to the U.S. in 1996 to study at Mississippi State University. Judy earned a degree in industrial engineering, and Yu Loong obtained a degree in electrical engineering. They married in December 2004 and moved to Laurel [MS].
Life was good, and then it got even better in the fall of 2007 when they learned that they were expecting their first child….
All was well until a routine ultrasound… during the 4th month of her pregnancy revealed a complication. The doctor explained that the ultrasound indicated the baby’s bones were not developing properly….
The couple was referred to a specialist in Jackson. After additional testing, the specialist reached the same conclusion as the obstetrician.
The couple turned to their faith to comfort them in this difficult time. They prayed for their unborn child, and family and friends around the world joined them in prayer.
Prayer provided Judy with peace and hope.
Eight weeks later another ultrasound was performed… the news was not good. That test revealed fractures in the arms and legs of the baby.
Doctors feared that he was suffering from Osteogenesis imperfecta, a rare genetic disorder in which the bones are brittle and break easily. In some cases, it is fatal.
Another ultrasound performed on March 21 revealed multiple fractures so clearly that even Judy and Yu Loong could detect them with their untrained eyes. They were devastated as the doctors explained that their baby boy had the most severe type of Osteogenesis imperfecta.
They also were told the baby’s lungs were not developing properly, and they were given little hope for his survival.
The couple continued to pray, as did their family and friends. Family members and friends sent gifts for the baby, but eventually Yu Loong tucked them into a closet because it was too painful for Judy to see them. The room in their home that they planned to decorate as a nursery was turned into a home office.
A few weeks later, the Liews invited their pastor, Father Tommy Conway, to their home. Father Tommy blessed their home with holy water and anointed Judy with holy oil. Judy and Yu Loong asked him to be present during the birth of their baby so that he could baptize the child immediately….
[T]he delivery… was scheduled for May 2 – one week before the original due date.
Judy’s parents… traveled from Malaysia and her sister… from Australia…. They were in the waiting room of Forrest General Hospital that Friday just before noon when Father Tommy emerged from the delivery room in scrubs exclaiming “He’s alive, and he’s perfect!”
Asher Liew entered this world at 11:46 a.m. screaming at the top of his lungs. He weighed 7 pounds 1 ounce and measured 19 inches in length…. [D]octors who worked on Asher’s case are amazed that he is so healthy.
It truly is a miracle. Judy and Yu Loong believe that Asher is with them today because of the power of prayers. They wish to thank everyone who prayed for them…..
First-time grandmother, Alice, said the family never gave up hope throughout the entire ordeal….
[HT: moderator MK; photo courtesy of HattiesburgAmerican.com]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Jill
What an outstanding story! Thanks for sharing.
How wonderful is that?!!
That makes me so happy that their baby was okay.
Asher Liew entered this world at 11:46 a.m. screaming at the top of his lungs. He weighed 7 pounds 1 ounce and measured 19 inches in length…. [D]octors who worked on Asher’s case are amazed that he is so healthy.
I wonder if he was screaming at those doctors, or just happy to be alive.
Congratulations Judy and Lu!
Such a happy ending! :)
The couple CHOSE to keep the baby giving in to Hope and Life…
How come so-called Pro-CHOICE people are not with us in celebrating this miraculous event???
ANYTHING is possible with God…
I guess that there are no sure things in this world.
Did they ever say what happened to the fractures and how they came to be?
RSD, I’m very glad for them too.
“How come so-called Pro-CHOICE people are not with us in celebrating this miraculous event???”
Celebrate what exactly? another baby born? Hip Hip Horay and all that. That’s nice for his family but not exactly a miracle.
Celebrate the doctors misreading the ultrasound results? They screwed up. These things happen. I doubt it deserves to be called a miracle.
I don’t see a story here. The article doesn’t even mention abortion being considered as an option. The parents wanted a baby, they got a baby. They also got a big scare due to either Medical Malpractice or some condition that hasn’t been explained yet which looked much more serious than it turned out to be.
Hal,
You seem like you are in a bad mood today. :/
Hi Sandy. I’m not particularly in a bad mood. Perhaps my tone was a bit off. I’m happy for the couple and their new baby. I really just don’t see why it’s a “pro-life” story as much as a “boy we were scared but everything turned out okay” story.
How come so-called Pro-CHOICE people are not with us in celebrating this miraculous event???
They don’t believe in miracles.
Hal, it’s a prolife story because it’s a story of HOPE. It’s a story of loving the baby no matter what, even in the face of a horrible diagnosis and a dreadful prognosis.
I’m having a hard time choosing the words to express this, but I’ll give it a shot:
That baby has inherent worth. His parents saw, as we do, that he had inherent worth and would still have had iherent worth even had he been as ill as the ultrasounds said he was. And his parents’ ability to see his inherent worth brought them through the grim prognosis. Had his parents been unable to see his inherent worth, had his value to them been based on being healthy, they would have cheated him out of his life, and themselves out of a perfectly healthy and wanted baby, by choosing to reject him when they believed him to be gravely ill.
Hal,
You’re pathetic. Every baby is a miracle, this one even more so. Maybe because you got rid of two miracles in your life, it pricks you just a little… eh?
Pathetic? oh my. Every baby may be a miracle, but we don’t publish the facts of their birth on this or any other website. Thousands of people have healthy babies every day. The only thing different about this one is that he was misdiagnosed with a severe illness. I’m sorry his was misdiagnosed, and I’m happy he’s doing fine. I just don’t see a miracle. (other than the fact that “every baby is a miracle”)
I may actually have to agree with Hal. Yay, cute baby. One of my good friends from high school just had a baby. If I sent in pictures of her and her beautiful Aidyn, would you post them? Gretchen had an emergency C-section because the fetal heartrate was dropping and Aidyn’s umbilical cord was wrapped around her neck twice. Also, there was a bad smell in the amniotic fluid so the both of them are on anitbiotics now.
Lots of people have babies. I’m happy for them. It has nothing to do with abortion at all.
RSD–Yo. I am here and I am happy for this couple and their new son. It sounds like this couple listened to their doctors, weighed all the information and made the best choice for them. It might be a pro-life story in that it celebrates life, but it’s also a pro-choice story in that it’s about a woman and her husband making their own decisions on how much physical and emotional risk they were prepared to take.
Wow. Wow! WOW!
Praise the Lord!!
Hal, Erin – The point of the story is that this couple didn’t abort when there was an indication that there might be a problem with the pregnancy, as many others do. They had HOPE.
It’s a miracle their doctor didn’t suggest an abortion, given the “perfect only” mentality in this country. He gave the baby little HOPE.
The “miracle” is that HOPE won out in the end.
It might be a pro-life story in that it celebrates life, but it’s also a pro-choice story in that it’s about a woman and her husband making their own decisions on how much physical and emotional risk they were prepared to take.
There is no mention of this couple making any choice about risks they were prepared to take, it’s NOT a pro-choice story. They were pro-life from the get-go.
YOu both are sad, Hal AND Erin. No wonder you have the beliefs you do. The fact that you can’t even recognize that a baby is a miracle, shows how warped your perspective on life is.
I’m confused. A baby is a result of a natural biological process. Every single living thing has ‘babies’. If you choose to abort in this situation, fine. If you don’t, that’s fine too.
Would you be posting this story if the infant hadn’t survived?
I didn’t think so.
But, Erin, a human baby is something very special because it’s not just the result of two animals reproducing. It is another unique human person, never to be created again, who has a special plan here on earth. That’s why each person is a miracle.
To look at it any other way, debases and minimizes what it means to be human.
what a great story.
“If you have the faith of a mustard seed you will be able to say to this mountain, be cast into the sea”……Jesus Christ.
Hey Hal…settle down. The odds of three doctors making the same mis-diagnosis are astronomical.
Hal, if one of your daughters got deathly ill and all hope was gone, you mean to tell me you couldn’t bring yourself to ask at least an “unknown god” to heal her? What could you possibly lose by doing that other than your pride? And the gain, possibly your daughter….
I don’t understand you Hal.
Erin:
Why do you allow yourself to be misled?
How was this a misdiagnosis if EVEN the mother could tell there were fractures on the ultrasound?!! To the untrained eye, those things are realllly hard to read so if the mother could see the fracture, you are really trying to say it was just a simple misdiagnosis?
On another note,
I’m really not surprised that Erin sees it the way she does..she doesn’t believe that prayer really does anything so she wouldn’t see this as a miracle. Because things like miracles, prayers, etc. she doesn’t acknowledge. I feel sad for her in that respect, but she has to come to faith on her own. None of us can make her, and I don’t really think belittling her for not having the faith will suddenly help her discover it. Belittling her for the lack of it only reaffirms that she should never attempt to believe, because people who believe treat non-believers like some on here treat her. Only through love and understanding can you change hearts and minds people!
I always love it when people hope for the best and get it, it reaffirms my feeling that positivity, hope, prayer will win out in the end.
Yea!!!
Elizabeth: Well said.
We need to pray for Hal and Erin who have both lost children to abortion.
Erin: “If you choose to abort in this situation, fine. If you don’t, that’s fine too.”
So that baby being dead would have been just as happy an ending?
Erin,
We have posted on families that chose “life” and the ending weren’t so “Happy”…Remember Elliot?
Hal,
Another ultrasound performed on March 21 revealed multiple fractures so clearly that even Judy and Yu Loong could detect them with their untrained eyes. They were devastated as the doctors explained that their baby boy had the most severe type of Osteogenesis imperfecta.
Seriously, this was not just a case of “Oh, there’s a one in 20 chance your baby might have down syndrome. The fractures were there. For EVERYONE to see.
Would you be posting this story if the infant hadn’t survived?
I didn’t think so.
Posted by: Erin at May 13, 2008 9:02 PM
Sure she would post it if the baby had not lived.
She posted when “Run” of Run DMC and his wife decided not to abort a baby with a fatal defect.
There is no mention of this couple making any choice about risks they were prepared to take, it’s NOT a pro-choice story. They were pro-life from the get-go.
Janet, Isn’t the whole point of posting this story on this blog to say, “Look: they could have had an abortion but they decided not to”? You said something similar yourself. And I certainly hope that their doctors did mention abortion. In fact, they’d have been derelict in their duty if they hadn’t. If this couple hadn’t known that they could have had an abortion if they wanted one, then this wouldn’t be a story about hope and bravery, just a story about luck.
Yes, these parents sound like they’re politically pro-life and probably would be less offended by a pro-life politicization of their personal story than a pro-choice one, but that doesn’t mean that this story doesn’t also celebrate pro-choice values.
You guys are happy for this couple because they relied on faith and hope and brought a new life into this world–you’re happy for them because you’re pro-life. I’m happy for this couple because they were free to make the best decision for them and for their family–I’m happy for them because I’m pro-choice.
This is one of those times when the viewpoints are not in conflict. We can just say “Congratulations!” even if we don’t have all of the same reasons for saying it.
Hal, if one of your daughters got deathly ill and all hope was gone, you mean to tell me you couldn’t bring yourself to ask at least an “unknown god” to heal her? What could you possibly lose by doing that other than your pride? And the gain, possibly your daughter….
I don’t understand you Hal.
Posted by: HisMan at May 13, 2008 9:27 PM
HisMan, I know we don’t understand each other. Perhaps we are on the beginning of a journey to that place, starting with a bit of respect. I thank you for that.
One of my daughters was in the PICU for a few days when she was little. I spent a lot of time talking to doctors, and I never left her bedside. It never occurred to me, however, to “ask God” for anything. My other daugher was hit by a car when she was seven and rushed to a trauma center. I got the call and rushed to the hospital, not knowing how she was. As any parent can imagine, that was probably the worst 15 minutes of my life. Still, no pleas to God to make it better.
I’m not sure you can grasp how foreign that would be for me. The example I keep coming back to is Zeus. You would never even think of asking Zeus to help you if a child was dying. Even if you’d have nothing to lose except your pride. That’s how it is for me and the Christian God. I’m sure you’d be “tolerant” towards a person who worshipped Zeus, but you wouldn’t seriously contemplate converting. You might even express some dismay from time to time when that person praised Zeus for all the wonderful things in the world, and blamed Mars (or whoever) for all the trouble we encounter.
…hmmm…What IF I didn’t mention the fact that this was CHOICE situation…would any of the so-called pro-choice/ pro-abort folks even have bothered to mention that they were glad the baby turned out fine?
…really shows which “choice” they really care about, huh?
It goes with out saying that everyone is glad when a baby turns out fine. Do you really think the “so-called pro choice/pro-abort folks” are some kind of monsters?
This baby was not misdiagnosed. He was in fact born with the disease but is in much better condition than was expected. Yes. The parents were given the option of aborting and encouraged to do so because of the seriousness of the baby’s condition. They CHOSE not to.
I think what JAS is saying is that the miracle is that this little baby didn’t have as Severe defect as was diagnosed. He still has the disease, but its not as Severe. And that in itself is the Miracle.
“It goes with out saying that everyone is glad when a baby turns out fine. Do you really think the “so-called pro choice/pro-abort folks” are some kind of monsters?
Posted by: Hal at May 14, 2008 10:55 AM”
———————————–
No, Hal, I don’t think so-called pro-choice/ pro-abort folks are monsters.
I just don’t see them celebrating/ gloating as much when babies are born..as opposed to all the hoopla when abortion was the Choice.
Makes one think.
It goes with out saying that everyone is glad when a baby turns out fine. Do you really think the “so-called pro choice/pro-abort folks” are some kind of monsters?
I really do.
Here we have a baby given a grim prognosis that was confirmed by multiple doctors. Your ilk would have killed the baby. Pro-lifers choose to lvoe the baby for whatever time he/she has. These parents were surprised by a healthy child. Pro-aborts never get those surprises, as their babies end up in pieces when the news comes that they aren’t exactly perfect.
I also love that you assume the doctors screwed up, not that the child was healed as Jesus healed so many others.
So, yes, you are some kind of a monster, for not breathing a sigh of relief that a condemned baby was spared from illness or abortion. Moreso, you’re a monster for dismembering 2 of your own.
Okay, Jacqueline, thanks for the honest response.
I, in turn, love how you give Jesus credit for all the good things (healing this baby) but not for the bad things (breaking all his bones to begin with). I think my explaination makes a lot more sense.
Jacqueline,
It WAS tempting to say “yes” to Hal’s question…which would probably make it easier to accept why the pro-abort folks act/ think the way they do regarding the treatment of the unborn.
But, in the end, they really are still people…
People with hopes and fears and dreams..and, unfortunately, people who chose to use their freedom and intellect for something else rather than the common good.
I sometimes don’t feel like it but I still pray for their change of heart…
Jacquie, I think that that point of view is what prevents you guys from winning remotely as many ‘converts’ as you could.
Erin,
It will not be up to us to “convert” you (as a group)with the way the abortion debate is going…it will be up to each one of you to look inside yourselves and chose to “convert” (or not).
..that should have been “choose to convert”…
Jaqueline,
oh no no no. My ilk? Issues like this push pro-choice/pro-life to the side. Parents who want their child (but may be pro-choice, because pro-choice doesn’t mean you refuse to have your own babies) will keep it no matter what its ailments. Their stance on the political issue is irrelevant.
Jacque, plenty of pro-choicers go through tough pregnancies where the baby may be disabled or in pain or whatever and don’t abort.
It’s not like pro-choicers are shouting “Defective! Throw him out!” and for you to misrepresent pro-choicers like that is doing yourself and other pro-lifers a disservice.
Pro-choice does not advocate death or infanticide or abortion. It advocates the right for each family to choose for itself what the best solution is.
And even if a person chooses to have a disabled baby, they’re not necessarily pro-life.
Edyt,
So…do you like the term pro-abort then? What would you consider yourself?
And are you saying that pro-choice is really pro-life in certain circumstances???!!
I got involved in this thread because I was told that the story was picked up by this website and I knew a little bit about the story. I contributed my 2-cents worth because I too thought it was typical that the burden of fault initially fell on the doctors for providing an erred diagnosis. So while I’m here I’ll add this: I do believe in miracles. The most profound miracle that comes to mind is that we are able to all live in this world and suffer through our own misgivings. That we survive regardless of our differences. That we are able to talk about the affect of living side-by-side with each other in the world. That we can suffer with and sometimes feel the joy of others. Sometimes this has the effect to change hearts and minds. Certainly the story of this child touched a part of all of us who are here in this thread. By observing how Jacqueline or Hal or any of you others responds to this story, how it affects you, has an affect on me. It’s not pleasant hearing about Hal’s lost children or Jacquelines revulsion to it. But I can gauge within myself those same emotions and I believe that is part of the miracle. That is how God meant it to be. That we learn how we are to be from observing and sharing the many parts of each other that affect us. It’s true now just as it was in the days of Zeus.
I, in turn, love how you give Jesus credit for all the good things (healing this baby) but not for the bad things (breaking all his bones to begin with). I think my explaination makes a lot more sense.
I refuse to get into theology with you, but if you had any knowledge about human dominion, you’d see that ailments aren’t God’s doing, but a consequence of a fallen world, which God can remedy if we surrender our free will and invite Him to do so. But having that conversation with you at length would be vulgar, since you don’t recognize God to begin with.
Jacque, plenty of pro-choicers go through tough pregnancies where the baby may be disabled or in pain or whatever and don’t abort.
I never said some of them did not. What I said is that I think you are monsters. I recognize some are deceived or ignorant, but as a general rule, pro-aborts are people that choose their own irresponsible sex lives over the lives of the children they create. How is that not monstrous?
Jacquie, I think that that point of view is what prevents you guys from winning remotely as many ‘converts’ as you could.
You mean the fact that I find you guys to be soulless sons-of-bitches? I can’t change that, because I have an accurate view of what abortion truly is. Anyone who claims to think that people that kill their own kids in nasty ways aren’t monsters is either in denial about the horror of it all or lying. Maybe viewing you as such doesn’t make me endearing- but when have I ever appeared to care?
oh no no no. My ilk? Issues like this push pro-choice/pro-life to the side. Parents who want their child (but may be pro-choice, because pro-choice doesn’t mean you refuse to have your own babies) will keep it no matter what its ailments. Their stance on the political issue is irrelevant.
To 50 million babies in American, this isn’t a political issue that on which one can have a “stance.” It was their demise.
Yes, your “ilk” in that it’s the whim and bidding of the parents, whether they want the disabled child or not, that decides whether or not the child lives or dies. Prolifers don’t make those decisions, regardless of their personal desires, since they would never kill a child.
So indeed, you have an “ilk” comprised of people with a selfish, “murder is okay if I want to” mindset.
This just goes back to the main issue of murder, and the issue of when life begins. It’s murky. Different religions say different things, if we’re going by religion. Different people are allowed to have different viewpoints on the matter, that’s the fun part about being a functioning human being with a unique brain. The point of this article was a happy one that all can appreciate: a family that wanted a child was prepared for the worst and got a blessing. We can all agree that it’s a happy ending.
But the ilk thing, the grouping thing, is what gets me. I don’t think “murder is okay” mainly because I don’t think abortion is murder…BUT I don’t think abortion is a treat either. That’s why I’m pro-choice. If I got pregnant I’d joyfully have the baby. Who am I to tell others what to do? And this murder you speak of only becomes more dangerous to the mother- and thus the children she already brought into the world and is caring for- when abortion is illegal. Because the demand will not dramatically decrease. Dreeeeeeeeam world.
OH ps is anyone gonna call Jaqueline out for calling people soulless sons of bitches? That’s slap-on-the-wrist-worthy language.
“pro-aborts are people that choose their own irresponsible sex lives over the lives of the children they create. How is that not monstrous?”
umm…untrue.
By being pro-choice you call me a pro-abort, and, first of all, I don’t have an irresponsible sex life because a) that would involve currently having one and b) I’m a sex educator and know how to be responsible. I also would gladly keep the baby and love it the rest of my life if I were to get pregnant. Kinda throws a wrench into that generalization know, doesn’t it?
*now. damn typos!!
JAS, I liked your post.
Ali, you too.
Jacqueline, we see things differently. I’ll leave it at that.
So…do you like the term pro-abort then? What would you consider yourself?
And are you saying that pro-choice is really pro-life in certain circumstances???!!
Carla, pro-abort implies that the person wishes for abortions to happen. Pro-choice does not imply that notion. It instead affirms the choice of the individual — whether she feels it in her personal beliefs to approve or disapprove is fully up to her.
Pro-life comes with the belief that abortion should be illegal, correct?
Well, pro-choicers can choose life, they can be against abortion, yet still not wish that abortion be illegal for all people based on the idea that each person can choose for herself what is best for her.
Ali and Jacqueline,
What are your views on what a “responsible” sex life is?
But the CHOICES for Prochoicers are
infanticide
abortion.
DEATH.
I would love for us all to embrace life. All life from conception to grave. Prolife.
Well, Carla, what does it mean to you to be pro-life?
Just told ya. :)
Janet said: There is no mention of this couple making any choice about risks they were prepared to take, it’s NOT a pro-choice story. They were pro-life from the get-go.
DRF said: 7:58: Janet, Isn’t the whole point of posting this story on this blog to say, “Look: they could have had an abortion but they decided not to”? You said something similar yourself. And I certainly hope that their doctors did mention abortion. In fact, they’d have been derelict in their duty if they hadn’t. If this couple hadn’t known that they could have had an abortion if they wanted one, then this wouldn’t be a story about hope and bravery, just a story about luck.
Yes, these parents sound like they’re politically pro-life and probably would be less offended by a pro-life politicization of their personal story than a pro-choice one, but that doesn’t mean that this story doesn’t also celebrate pro-choice values.
You guys are happy for this couple because they relied on faith and hope and brought a new life into this world–you’re happy for them because you’re pro-life. I’m happy for this couple because they were free to make the best decision for them and for their family–I’m happy for them because I’m pro-choice.
This is one of those times when the viewpoints are not in conflict. We can just say “Congratulations!” even if we don’t have all of the same reasons for saying it.
I don’t claim to speak for anyone but myself, not other pro-lifers, You can’t lump us all into one group, so, please don’t call us “you guys”?
Because I made a comment about the couple not aborting doesn’t make it the point of the story. The word abortion was not even mentioned once. Doctors do not have an obligation to mention abortion. It is against some doctors’ conscience to do so. If someone doesn’t like that, they can find a pro-choice doctor. Anyways, who in this day and age hasn’t heard of abortion? It hardly needs mentioning by a doctor. Isn’t that a woman’s personal choice? I would be personally insulted if my doctor even mentioned the word. I’d be out the door so fast…..
Carla,
The reason I ask is because it’s unclear what you mean by “I would love for all of us to embrace life.”
Certainly, I would love for the same thing to happen! However, I was under the impression being pro-life meant you wanted abortion to be illegal, something I don’t support.
But if being pro-life just means embracing life, then there are a lot of people who do that every day. Even those who consider themselves pro-choicers.
IMO, there are three types of people in the abortion debate:
1. Pro-life, or Abortion is wrong.
2. Pro-choice, or Abortion’s ok but NOT for ME
3. Pro-aborts, or Abortion is fine.
I believe that hearts need to be changed, Edyt. I pray for it. I hope for it. I support prolife legislation. I support Pregnancy Care Centers with my time and my money. I speak about my abortion experience. I vote for those that share my values.
I think overturning Roe v Wade may not happen in my lifetime. There are so many other things to do.
So you embrace life except you support the killing of babies……please clarify.
Jas 11:09: This baby was not misdiagnosed. He was in fact born with the disease but is in much better condition than was expected. Yes. The parents were given the option of aborting and encouraged to do so because of the seriousness of the baby’s condition. They CHOSE not to.
Where are reading this about the baby being born with a disease? The article says “he’s perfect”!
The article also doesn’t say that abortion was given as an option. They may have told their doctor in the beginning of the pregnancy that they were pro-life, in that case, he would know not to speak of abortion.
Unless we’re not reading the same article, I think you are making assumptions that aren’t there.
Carla, I think “embracing life” has a couple different meanings, depending on your life perspective. A secularist might equate it with “carpe diem”, or “seize the day”. A religious person might see it in terms of pro-life issues as well.
Well, Carla, if all people suddenly decided that they would not have an abortion under any circumstance, I would support that decision. It would be a wonderful change, so I relate to your statement that hearts need to be changed.
For me, it’s not just about killing of babies, it’s about how we treat women. I believe it’s degrading to force a woman to give birth when she is not mentally, physically, or even spiritually okay with it. It’s an oppression of a person’s body to say she must give birth. If she wants to, that’s wonderful and she and her child should be welcomed into the world. I don’t support killing of babies. I support a women’s decision to choose what she feels is best for her life, whatever the circumstances.
Jaqueline, how old are you? No need for nanny-nanny-poo-pooing here. I’m not a son of a bitch. I’m a lovely person.
I don’t even know what to say about this sex with children issue. Is it legal to have an abortion in america? Yes. Is it legal to have sex with children? No. So legally speaking, I’m right here. You say abortion is murder, I don’t. You say I’m incorrect, I say our viewpoints differ. Now this monstrous son of a bitch is leaving this thread. I have volunteer work to do, and later I’m making dinner for a friend who just had surgery. Gosh, it’s tough to be this cruel in the world!
Where are reading this about the baby being born with a disease? The article says “he’s perfect”!
Actually, it didn’t. Father Tommy said that, but the article didn’t quote a doctor, so we can’t know for sure if the baby was indeed just fine or if he still had a disease.
JAS –
Welcome. Do you happen to know what happened, in terms of the condition? Is it just a milder case than it appeared on ultrasound, or was it just a misdiagnosis? There are no casts or harnesses on the baby’s limbs – which indicates that there were no fractures, or that they healed in utero – maybe some other bone condition, or the bones weren’t forming correctly but it wasn’t OI? I’m VERY curious but couldn’t seem to locate any info on this.
Jacqui – I respect the fact that you’ve stated you don’t care if you come across like a child…but I have to ask, if you truly cared about ending abortion, wouldn’t you also care about progression in this debate, and making steadfast arguments that make people on the other side THINK, rather than going “neener neener I’m right and you’re wrong”? Not trying to be rude…its an honest question.
Yes, I know what happened. The Doctors were correct in their diagnosis. The child will have repercussions in life due to the condition and will undergo physical therapy at an age in life when I didn’t have any idea that was a possibility. The author knew that this article would be fuel for the abortion argument one way or the other. She chose to tell those parts of the story that alluded to the joy of the couple having a child that would probably live a comfortable life. The priest who was there to baptize the child and prepare it and the parents for its journey into eternity described the child as perfect in that it was living and appeared normal and ready to thrive as a blessed individual.
Life as well as death can be difficult situations for many people to appreciate and understand. Blame is easy. We all have to live with our shortcomings and especially the choices we make.
In this case the doctors did what they were trained to do, the parents did also, the author reported what she thought was a beautiful story that would be appreciated by her readership, the priest conveyed the joy of the blessing of God in a beautiful child making a grand entrance into life. The baby screamed and then peed a stream across the room filled with spectators. The tragedy is that even if the stream had washed over the entire world and been as clean and pure as the baby’ thoughts it would not clean up the mess that is this thread.
JAS
Thanks for the info. Its good to know it was not a misdiagnosis.
However, in my experience, when a bone fracture is identified through ultrasound or soon after birth, the newborn is put in a harness immediately so that the bones can fuse in a good position. Do you know if the picture was taken with any devices removed just for the story?
You’d be amazed at how young PT can start, and be effective. One of the PTs in the practice I work at specializes in infant/early intervention care…including mild cases of OI and congenital deformations (which is why I’m wondering about the harnesses – I’m used to seeing kiddos like this one all strapped up to prohibit movement and enhance healing.
Just wonderin…. =)
I’m pro choice and I waited so long to post b/c I was busy. So congrats to the new parents!
It indeed seems a miracle that there was a live birth. I imagine it had to be a surgical delivery. I saw a program on the BBC many years ago about Brittle Bone disease as they called it. The amount of pain victims must endure has to be incredible. I remember seeing kids that couldn’t walk without snapping leg and foot bones. Children that broke ribs from coughing and dying from punctured lungs. It can’t be easy to watch a child suffer so. Perhaps a miracle cure will be found. That would truely be a happy ending.
Sally, 6:35 p.m.
I agree!!
One of my favorite people worked with patients with osteogenesis imperfecta…it’s a very, very rough disease to live with. But there’s a lot of good research going on out there so hopefully there will be a cure within our lifetimes.
Hal:
Sorry for all that stuff you went through with your kids.
Yes, your right, that was the worst 15 minutes of your life.
When my son David was 11 he had a botched appendectomy that resulted in perintonits. For three weeks we didn’t know if he would live or die.
I did turn to God in prayer literally shouting in obedience to Him to heal my son. He did with literally only hours left before they identifed the strain that riddled his body with infection.
And Hal, Zeus never appeared as a man, in bodily form, healing the sick, raising the dead, feeding the hungry and changing the world by dying on the cross and being resurrected.
And this I submit to you Hal, it was satan who met do destroy your daughters. God intervened even though you didn’t deserve it (none of us do). Someday, I hope you recognize that.
Hi HisMan. All parents have similar stories. I’m just very thankful everything turned out okay for both of them. Many are not so lucky.
I won’t argue religion with you anymore tonight. I’m glad your faith sustains you, and inspires you to be a better man.
It goes with out saying that everyone is glad when a baby turns out fine. Do you really think the “so-called pro choice/pro-abort folks” are some kind of monsters?
Posted by: Hal at May 14, 2008 10:55 AM
I used to tell my students that most folks are pretty nice when everything goes fine.
The real test of a person is the choices made when everything is not fine,
For me, it’s not just about killing of babies, it’s about how we treat women. I believe it’s degrading to force a woman to give birth when she is not mentally, physically, or even spiritually okay with it. It’s an oppression of a person’s body to say she must give birth. If she wants to, that’s wonderful and she and her child should be welcomed into the world. I don’t support killing of babies. I support a women’s decision to choose what she feels is best for her life, whatever the circumstances.
Posted by: Edyt at May 14, 2008 2:19 PM
The problem is that these statements are contradictory.
We all support a woman’s right to say no to sexual activity, that way she won’t involuntarily face pregnancy or birth.
However, abortion kills babies, whatever the circumstances.
Hippie,
Not all women who get pregnant are so because they wanted to have sex. In fact, there are many circumstances with a couple, married or not, has sex against the woman’s will, but she feels she has to because she’s dating or married to him.
It’s absurd to say that if a woman does not want children she shouldn’t have sex anyway. I have at least four or five friends who don’t want to have kids. Should they remain abstinent their whole lives?
What about people with infertility problems? Did they all of a sudden get a free pass to sex?
Fact: People have been having sex as long as they’ve existed, and that’s not going to stop simply because you think they should.
Fact: People have been having sex as long as they’ve existed, and that’s not going to stop simply because you think they should.
Posted by: Edyt at May 15, 2008 12:43 PM
Edyt,
FACT: People having sex have been gettig pregnant since people existed, and that’s not going to change simply because you don’t think they should.
People having sex does lead to pregnancy sometimes, but the woman is free to stop being pregnant if she wants to.
We have a largely free society, and I for one am grateful for it.