Obama chatter 7-21
As a Catholic I am theologically conservative, but in politics I am fiercely moderate. This is the wrong year to vote John McCain president. If he had ran in 2004, he’d perhaps be a strong incumbent now. But he didn’t. As for the opposition, I’m not necessarily an Obama supporter. He might, however, be the best candidate for ~this~ year.
S/he has a funny way of not necessarily supporting Obama, going to great lengths to excuse Obama’s opposition of Born Alive while calling me a “partisan hack and pro-life ideologue who is wrong about Obama’s support for infanticide….”
“I never thought I would hear myself saying this,” Dobson said in a radio broadcast to air Monday. “… While I am not endorsing Senator John McCain, the possibility is there that I might.”…
“There’s nothing dishonorable in a person rethinking his or her positions, especially in a constantly changing political context,” Dobson said in a statement to the AP. “Barack Obama contradicts and threatens everything I believe about the institution of the family and what is best for the nation. His radical positions on life, marriage and national security force me to reevaluate the candidacy of our only other choice, John McCain.”
Earlier, Dobson had said he could not in good conscience vote for McCain, citing the candidate’s support for embryonic stem cell research and opposition to a federal constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage, as well as concerns about McCain’s temper and foul language.
Dobson said on the radio program he must consider McCain’s record against abortion rights and support for smaller government, and added McCain “seems to understand the Muslim threat.” He also indicated McCain’s choice of a running mate will be a factor.
Of his new position, Dobson said in the statement to the AP, “If that is a flip-flop, then so be it.”
I appreciate the honesty and humility.
Mr. Warren said over the weekend that the presidential candidates would appear together for a moment but that he would interview them in succession at his megachurch….
Mr. Warren, the author of the best-selling book The Purpose-Driven Life, said… his event… will focus on how they make decisions and on some of Mr. Warren’s main areas of focus, like AIDS, poverty and the environment….
“Since I’m their friend, I’m not going to give them any gotcha questions,” Mr. Warren said, adding that a typical query would be, “What’s the most difficult decision you’ve had to make, and how did you make it?”
[Photo courtesy of NYT]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
I don’t know much about Rick Warren. What do ya’ll (the Christians specifically, but anyone) think about him?
Bobby, I think he far outshines Dobson.
I’ve been distrustful of him ever since he hosted Obama at his church’s forum on AIDS, which I wrote about in a column.
I dislike the mega-churches in general, but I haven’t found much objectionable about Rick Warren. Admittedly I don’t really know much about him, but a couple years ago he did a debate piece in Time Magazine where he argued against prosperity gospel, which I liked him for.
Obama has this talent, for lack of a better word, for preaching on Sundays to various strands of religious congregations.
What better forum to capitalize on folks’ attention especially on a day when they come to worship?
I think it’s out of character for McCain to attempt the same strategy, but if he’s presented this opportunity to speak from the pulpit like Rev. Obama, I say go for it.
A couple things about this “Not McCain” character:
NM wrote: “Obama embraces the culture of life concept, if inadequately…”
Where have you been, O ProChoice Catholic One? Lauding the work of the likes of Planned Parenthood hardly qualifies one as an embracer of the culture of life. Are you picking and choosing, too?
And this thing about posting a picture of St. Thomas More and daring to profile youself next to that saintly politician…should we remind you that the good St. Thomas preferred decapitation rather than compromise with the politics of his day? Can you honestly look in the mirror and begin to identify yourself with this martyr, yet you’re giving Obama pro-life credit???
Jill, looks like you’ve already started putting this Kerry-esque character in his/her place. Keep it up. I find it hard to be as patient as you.
I missed the picture of St. Thomas More. Where is it?
Never mind about St. Thos. More. I found the picture at Jill’s second link.
Is that what a mega-church looks like?
I attend a mega-church, and ours has a similar sense – 3 big screens so people can see.
Wow Jill. This is soooo very different from many Catholic Churches.
The church my family goes to is so….medieval! With gothic pillars of marble, vaulted ceilings, paintings on the walls, statues, incense, bells, candles, organ music (very bad I might add!).
Seems like a whole other type of worship.
I”m amazed!
How many worshippers in a mega church would you say?
Good show, Jill. I’m a Catholic and I think ‘NM’ is one of theose cafeteria Catholics, like Kerry, Kennedy, Pelosi, et. al.
That blog is a bit hard to follow, unlike yours.
Hey, you’re getting named all over the place, you must be doing something right. ;)
If you’re there, BB, I have your answer. Every thread that I try to post this response on stops accepting my comments: Because I’ve already answered the question, Bobby. I would’ve answered it here (again) sooner, but I was out shopping for my husband who wants me to send a package out to him ASAP. It’s a uterus. That’s very important to the whole baby-making process, dare I say essential. Potentiality and outside intervention are integral parts of my pro-life philosophy, and when applied to the united sperm and egg, make all the difference. If you’re making a cake, you need an oven. If you expect to make a cake by just mixing a bunch of ingredient up in a bowl on your table and leaving it there, you’re going to be sorely disappointed. However, once you put that cake in that oven, unless YOU touch the dial to make the cake burn, or YOU take the cake out of the oven before it’s ready, there will be a completed cake coming out of that oven.
If you’re there, BB, I have your answer. Every thread that I try to post this response on stops accepting my comments: Because I’ve already answered the question, Bobby. I would’ve answered it here (again) sooner, but I was out shopping for my husband who wants me to send a package out to him ASAP. It’s a uterus. That’s very important to the whole baby-making process, dare I say essential. Potentiality and outside intervention are integral parts of my pro-life philosophy, and when applied to the united sperm and egg, make all the difference. If you’re making a cake, you need an oven. If you expect to make a cake by just mixing a bunch of ingredient up in a bowl on your table and leaving it there, you’re going to be sorely disappointed. However, once you put that cake in that oven, unless YOU touch the dial to make the cake burn, or YOU take the cake out of the oven before it’s ready, there will be a completed cake coming out of that oven.
Carder, 6:35p: Well, my goal is to persuade Not McCain and his or her friends, which is why I’m taking the time.
Patricia, 9:10p: Yes, my church’s worship style and appearance are opposite of gothic and liturgical. I started attending there 22 years ago with less than 200. Now our weekend attendance is somewhere in the 3-5k range last I knew. We’ve had several huge spikes, but the first was at the time of the Christ Hospital drama. My pastor attributed that spike in part to God blessing our church for its faithfulness in supporting me and taking a stand against abortion.
Andy, 9:13p: Thanks.
MK, 9:42p: lol
It seems that Rick Warren, who is a truly inspirational author, is trying too hard to be middle of the road. There are very clear differences between the two candidates. Obama’s agenda for America can be summed up best by his record as the most liberal senator in the United States congress. McCain on the other hand has a record of striving for consensus, even as he upholds certain principles that he will not yield on.
As for experience, McCain is vastly more experienced in every phase of service to country. Though the word “hero” is probably overused these days, McCain really is a hero, having spent years suffering in a prisoner of war camp.
If it were not for the unprecedented media adulation directed towards Obama, McCain would be 20 points ahead in the polls.
Dr. James Dobson is dead on when he says that Obama “contradicts and threatens everything I believe about the institution of the family.”
I mean John McCain left his crippled wife to be with a younger wealthier woman. Even started that relationship before he was divorced. Even lived with Cindy before he was divorced. That right there spells stability and family values.
Jill, 3:20 I guess you need a mega church the size of a blimp hangar to accomodate your ego. So you are the reason your church grew from 200 to 5000? Do you also take credit for the 250 other churches in the US that developed into mega churches during the same time period?
Does Rick Warren concede that you are the reason for the growth of Saddleback church? Is that why you have so little respect for him?
Speaking of ego, I am amused by Dobson trying to milk some personal publicity from his inevitable endorsement of the Republican candidate. “Honesty and humility”- I don’t think so.
“Though the word “hero” is probably overused these days, McCain really is a hero, having spent years suffering in a prisoner of war camp.”
By that standard, Jose Padilla is a hero too.
Dobson doesn’t need to milk personal publicity. He has an audience of 1.5 million. Although he can be somewhat of an alarmist, he has great influence with Christian conservatives. :)
I have read Rick Warren’s book, “The Purpose Driven Life.” However, I’ve listened to many of the comments he has made (recordings of him) and I find that he preaches a watered down gospel. I’m sure he is well-meaning at times, but there is nothing “good” or helpful to the body of Christ by doing this. This is nothing new, as there are many pastors out there who compromise the truth of God’s Word. It’s becoming epidemic.
Dear Andy, Carder, Jill & Others:
I thought the numbering would help those who found my weblog hard to follow.
And on cafeteria Catholicism and my “Kerryesqueness,” well, I’m not one of those. I’m a 1996 convert, lover of John Paul the Great, nearly an Opus Dei member, and formerly pretty rabidly “pro-life” (as an ideologue).
But I’ve begun to see that some (e.g. Republicans) who call themselves “pro-life” are capitalist wolves in sheep’s clothing. They use their “pro-lifeness” to bundle us Catholics up with a lot of other unsavory issues.
I’m also starting to see that not all “pro-choicers” are baby killers. Some are concerned folks who don’t see how conservative Catholics and Christians can ever autocratically impose a ban on abortion in our current culture-of-death climate. Even if we succeed in overturning Roe (and hopefully not just because we promote the false constitutional philosophy of strict constructivism), that our culture will simply shift abortion to the various states that will simply allow it to continue.
In sum, we can’t have legal change—whether via Supreme Court or a constitutional amendment—until Catholics do the hard work of convincing everyone that life begins at conception. A significant number of Americans do not believe that (even some anti-abortion folks), so we’ll never be able to impose something top-down in a country that protects minority rights (look how we protect plural marriages in Texas—not that abortion and plural marriage should be comparable, but philosophically there are similar issues at work—i.e. religious freedom).
Looking for an autocratic solution to abortion won’t work. And I won’t stand for false constitutional philosophy being enshrined—destroying our successful federal system—to overturn one wrong law. We need a constitutional amendment, not a bad Supreme Court.
So let’s embrace the hard work needed to create a culture of life from the bottom up. If we do that, then Roe v. Wade will naturally be rendered useless.
– NM
NM,
Welcome to Jill’s place!
Thanks for responding.
Your proposal is noble indeed. It’s one of many strategies that ProLife is/has been attempting to get through to folks. This blog is a particularly active forum for the points you mentioned.
The main problem I have is that Obama is NO friend of the prolife movement. He is staunchly, unapologetically prochoice. And while you and some disgruntled prochoicers have noticed his “coming around”, the fact remains that his presidency means guaranteed rights to terminate unwanted children, hands down.
You’re probably familiar with Fr. Pavone’s reminder, that we do not elect someone in order to canonize them; rather, they are elected so that they do not get in the way of what Pro Life is trying to accomplish.
I don’t see us seeking the intercession of Saint John and Saint Barack anytime soon, but while we’re still on this planet, one will definitely be less of an obstacle than the other as far as saving children are concerned.
And NM,
Do stick around. Your perspective, while I find it unfathomable, is still worthy of discussion.
Peace.
I am a member of Saddleback Church and Pastor Rick typically does not get political, he puts his faith in Christ instead. I would actually hope that he would see Obama for who he is and actually hit him hard on the abortion issue at his upcoming forum. Otherwise it will be a night of pandering to Christians in which the press will say Obama won it outright without looking at his pro planned parenthood record. Pastor Rick always says that there are no illegitimate children, just illegitimate parents. I don’t agree with John McCain on many issue but the Supreme court will be vital to keep our culture from sinking deeper into abortion on demand. Greg Laurie commented during the primaries that he would never vote for a pro choice candidate and I hope Pastor Rick will wake up Christians and inform them on what is really at stake here…..Life or Death for the unborn.
carder:9:38: You’re probably familiar with Fr. Pavone’s reminder, that we do not elect someone in order to canonize them; rather, they are elected so that they do not get in the way of what Pro Life is trying to accomplish.
Amen!
From Yellowstone:
Warren is not to be trusted.
For him not to come out directly against Obama proves this.
NM:
You haven’t got a clue about who John McCain is.
You sound like a Liberal hack. The use of the term “Capitalist wolves” is a giveway. The truth is, your’re a wolf for supporting anyone but McCain. And where in the world did you ever get the notion that making money is bad? Do you not know it is the Lord who gives one power to get wealth? Or do you not know that God owns the cattle on a thousand hills. Look, take your non-biblical brand of Christianity and go live in a cave, will you?
When I get back from Yellowstone next week, be prepared for me to chew you up and spit you out on McCain.
For all of you who want a true picture of John McCain go to http://www.LenMunsil.com and search for McCain.
Ecce Crucem Domini,
Fugite partes adversae
Vicit Leo de Tribu Judah,
Radix David, Alleluia, Alleluia
1)So then if your mother’s doc allowed her to make that choice would you sue after she died or not?
2) I can just see you in the ER explaining it to a patient with a tubal pregnancy.
Posted by: SoMG at July 23, 2008 4:59 AM
SoMG,
1) can a patient sue a doctor if the patient is the one who refuses a procedure?
2) You can imagine me in an ER explaining my faith in Jesus all you want, but I was just sharing my personal beliefs. Explaining that to a ptient in an ER wouldn;t be my responsibility though unless I worked at the hospital as a Christian minister and the patient requested to speak with me. You should get some sleep.
From Pastor Rick Warren to Saddleback Church members. Read this and it should answer some questions.
MCCAIN & OBAMA AT SADDLEBACK!
John McCain and Barack Obama have agreed to make their first ever appearance together as presidential candidates at our next Saddleback Civil Forum. I’ve been working with them and their staffs behind the scenes for a few weeks, and last Wednesday they both committed to participate on Saturday evening, August 16th.
Both men have been friends of mine since before either decided to run for president. (You don’t have to agree on everything to be friends with someone.) Both taped video messages to our Global AIDS Summit last November. Both have supported the PEACE plan, both have written endorsements for the PEACE Coalition, and both have supported our effort to restore civility to civil discourse in America. During the primaries, several candidates (actually 3 Republicans and 3 Democrats) occasionally contacted us through calls, emails, and private meetings. You know that I never endorse, nor campaign for, political candidates. Neither is it my role to give political advice. But as a pastor and a cultural observer and I do understand the unique stresses and responsibilities of public leadership, so I try to help leaders when asked.
Last April, a “Compassion Forum” was held at Messiah College in Pennsylvania with some of the candidates. It was a good event. So when Katie Paris, the organizer of the event, asked us to help with a second forum, I offered Saddleback as a site. Katie went to work on the possibility, but conflicts over schedules, themes, and format kept delaying the idea.
So on July 2nd, I got involved directly and discovered what the candidates wanted to change: 1) They wanted a different format. 2) They wanted a broader agenda than just compassion issues. 3) They wanted me to be the only questioner, and 4) They wanted all the networks and national media to be allowed to use a live video feed from Saddleback.
I agreed to these requests so both candidates will be at Saddleback’s Civil Forum on Leadership and Compassion, Saturday, August 16, from 5 pm to 7 pm. I’ll interview each candidate for one hour. A flip of a coin determined that Barack Obama will be interviewed first.
Most debate, town hall, and media questions tend to be about hot political issues, or attempts to play “gotcha” for partisan points. In contrast, I intend to ask questions about factors that have historically determined presidential effectiveness. I’ll ask about their understanding of the constitution, personal leadership convictions and style, philosophy of the role of government, America’s role in the world, competence and character issues. They certainly won’t be softball questions.
This is an unprecedented honor for our church. Since the founding of our nation, no church has ever been given this kind of opportunity. I am humbled that they wanted me to ask all the questions. We must view this event unselfishly, as our church’s opportunity to serve the entire nation we love. It will be the historic first appearance of the candidates together, and millions of Americans will be introduced to Saddleback Church through the live media coverage.
Note the name calling, abuse and threats by His Man at 12:45 against NM, who simply writes a thoughtful comment. His Man is never cautioned, much less deleted or banned. since he is on the “right side” of Jill, confirming the clear double standard on this site, where SoMg is banned for comments more moderate than those posted by HisMan nearly every day.
LTL,
You stand corrected.
On more than one occasion I have admonished Hisman, deleted his posts, even given a final warning with regards to his uncharitable posts. He just about had me for dinner.
We have since kissed and made up. Still, I have no problem correcting him again.
SoMG was given plenty of heads up and warnings, but he chose his actions regardless. And he’s only gone for 2 weeks. It’s not like we don’t want him back; he (and we) just need a long cappuchino break.
Seriously, LTL, like MK offered StudentFL, if you’re not 100% satisfied, you can have your money back.