11 Notre Dame student groups repudiate Jenkins/Obama
The number of petition signers at NotreDameScandal.com has grown to 135k,
Meanwhile 11 Notre Dame student groups have formed a coalition repudiating the University for inviting Obama. They released a harsh statement today…
In defense of the unborn, we wish to express our deepest opposition to Reverend John I. Jenkins, C.S.C.’s invitation of President Barack Obama to be the… principal commencement speaker and the recipient of an honorary degree. Our objection is not a matter of political partisanship, but of President Obama’s hostility to the Catholic Church’s teachings on the sanctity of human life at its earliest stages….
We cannot sit by idly while the University honors someone who believes that an entire class of human beings is undeserving of the most basic of all legal rights, the right to live….
It is a great irony that the University has chosen to award President Obama an honorary law degree. As the oldest Catholic law school in the country, the Notre Dame Law School states that its mission is “to facilitate greater understanding of and commitment to the relationship between law and social justice.” The social justice issue of our day is the deliberate, legal attack on the most vulnerable members of society, the unborn. To award a Notre Dame law degree to a lawyer and politician who has used the law to deny equality to the unborn diminishes the value of the degree itself.
Additionally, Fr. Jenkins has placed some of his students in a moral dilemma as to whether they should attend their own graduation. Many pro-life seniors, along with their families, are conflicted about whether to participate in the commencement ceremony. The lack of concern for these devoted sons and daughters of Notre Dame, who love this University and the Catholic principles on which it was built, is shameful.
Wow. And the children shall lead them. The groups are:
Notre Dame Right to Life
The Irish Rover Student Newspaper
Notre Dame College Republicans
The University of Notre Dame Anscombe Society
Notre Dame Identity Project
Militia of the Immaculata
Children of Mary
Orestes Brownson Council
Notre Dame Law School Right to Life
Notre Dame Law St Thomas More Society
The Federalist Society at Notre Dame Law School
Meanwhile the Obama administration released a statement today. Per LifeNews.com:
White House spokeswoman Amy Brundage shrugged off the criticism.
“Notre Dame is one of the first universities President Obama will visit as president and he is honored to address the graduating class, their families and faculty of a school with such a rich history of fostering the exchange of ideas,” she said in a statement.
Brundage said Obama understands not everyone will agree with his pro-abortion views.
“While he is honored to have the support of millions of people of all faiths, including Catholics with their rich tradition of recognizing the dignity of people, he does not govern with the expectation that everyone sees eye to eye with him on every position,” she added.
“[T]he spirit of debate and healthy disagreement on important issues is part of what he loves about this country,” Brundage continued.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Hands down I’d skip graduation. No question, no second thoughts. Good for these groups. Militia of the Immaculata, now there’s a group worth joining.
Wow… What a shock, every fringe group on campus is protesting!! The groundswell is well….not so earthshaking.
YLT – now the student newspaper is a “fringe group?”
I think it would be fitting, out of respect for all of ND’s graduating students and their families, that President Obama rescind his acceptance of the invitation to speak at Notre Dame’s graduation. His presence will only mar what should be an enjoyable day for all attendees.
Kudos to these principled students at NotreDame.
I hope the seniors won’t skip commencement. I’d love to see them go and engage in silent but visible protest during the ceremony. There are creative ways to make a statement without being disruptive, and I hope that’s what they’ll do.
Fed Up, I’d like to see them stand up and face away from Obama during his address.
YLT is a sensationalist. Watch his/her posts. They never make sense.
Kudos to the Norte Dame students!
I think it would be fitting, out of respect for all of ND’s graduating students and their families, that President Obama rescind his acceptance of the invitation to speak at Notre Dame’s graduation. His presence will only mar what should be an enjoyable day for all attendees.
Posted by: Janet at March 25, 2009 4:42 PM
not on your life! I can’t see Obama caring a whit about how his presence will affect the school or the grads.
And how the heck does ND get out of the invitation without a major offense to the President?
They’d have to give a reason – but what reason?
If they cite Catholic faith reasons it’s a slap in the face to the President who has few if any Christian values at all.
what a kettle of fish they’ve got themselves into.
And I agree Fed-Up: they should protest silently – maybe by standing up and turning their backs to him when he speaks.
Someone should organize a financial boycott of the school.
Kristen: ya beat me to it! good thinking!
Obama’s day is coming. He is testing crossing the line in offending Veterans and about every other valuable group. at one time, all tyrannies started with a progression of greater and greater offenses.
Remember he thinks the catholics will not shutter hospitals because they will give in on abortion first.
Remember he thinks the catholics will not shutter hospitals because they will give in on abortion first.
Posted by: xppc at March 25, 2009 5:04 PM
yes, well a great many may just do that!
Wow:
I’d be so proud if one or all of these students were my son or daughter.
Way to go!!!
Keep fighting the good fight of faith.
I’d like to highlight this aspect of the ND Response statement that was omitted above, and which I participated in drafting with many others:
In response to the University’s decision, we pledge ourselves to acts of witness that will be characterized by respect, prayerfulness, outspoken fidelity to the Church, and true concern for the good of our University. It is appropriate that only members of the Notre Dame community lead all such protests, and we ask outside groups to respect our responsibilities in this regard. Over the next several weeks, in response to this scandal, our organizations will host various academic and religious events to engage the University community. We request any groups who are committed to respectful actions to support our efforts, thereby ensuring a unified front and a more compelling public witness.
Blessings in Notre Dame,
Rachel
Glad to know that many of the students are stepping up and protesting the Abortion President being at their commencement.
interesting. I’m a big fan of student protests. Good for them. I don’t agree with their message, obviously, but I’ll defend their right to do it.
Actually, if the graduating class wanted to really make a statement – they could do it right on the platform.
“It is appropriate that only members of the Notre Dame community lead all such protests”
Rachel,
like I told you the other day. screw.
Rachel:
I understand what you are saying, however, don’t think you understand how very, very serious this is. In fact, this is monumental. Please re-read the story about when Christ turned over the tables of the money changers in the Temple.
The Temple represented God. People were required to bring sacrifices to the Temple for atonement of their sins and to receive God’s Word. Many of these people were from far away lands and had to have their currencies exchanged to buy the sacrifice. Often they were cheated and deceived by people that had set up shop in the temple. God’s name was blasphemed. How many people left the faith because of this lie?
The one thing that Jesus did was to defend His Father’s reputation. He purposely made a point of this by publicly turning over the tables of these cheaters and thieves in front of everyone and in plain sight of those that would eventually crucify Him. In doing so he completely and utterly disassociated Himself and His Father from these evil people.
Sometimes it takes an expression of true emotion to get God’s heart across to people, otherwise, the status quo wins out.
Notre Dame holds itself as representing God and the Catholic Church. Obama is an antithesis to everything the Catholic Church stands for and in effect blaspheming God and His name. If you are a believer you have a responsibility to defend God’s name.
I suggest you do whatever it takes, short of violence, to defend God’s name. And please, stop listening to any of your advisers that may be namby pamby, Harvey Milktoast or wishy washy on this.
Finally, this is a very stern warning from Jesus Christ Himself, to the church, even the one that think they are following God:
Revelation 2:12-17, 12″To the angel of the church in Pergamum write: These are the words of him who has the sharp, double-edged sword. 13I know where you live—where Satan has his throne. Yet you remain true to my name. You did not renounce your faith in me, even in the days of Antipas, my faithful witness, who was put to death in your city—where Satan lives. 14Nevertheless, I have a few things against you: You have people there who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to entice the Israelites to sin by eating food sacrificed to idols and by committing sexual immorality. 15Likewise you also have those who hold to the teaching of the Nicolaitans. 16Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. 17He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give some of the hidden manna. I will also give him a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to him who receives it.
And about the Nicolaitans: When our Lord Jesus Christ walked among men, He taught His disciples to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, whom He denounced as hypocrites. With them He classed the chief priests and officials of the temple, together with the recognized teachers, in the Synagogues. He declared they had so corrupted the truth of God, which they were supposed to preach, with the doctrines and ordinances of men, that the truth, as originally given, was no longer with them. That which these blind leaders of the blind were giving forth as truth of God was making their converts twofold more the children of hell than they were before accepting the schism by these corrupt teachers.
Chris that would be amazing. I would love it if one of the student speakers would get up and make a statement celebrating life and call Obama out on his anti-life stances.
Rachel, I really appreciate that the student groups are trying to organize protests. I think it would be great for other Catholic groups to work with you guys to focus your protests for the largest possible impact.
Some students at my university went to Calgary when former president Bush was there and tried to get him arrested. Student groups will always protest lots of things.
One can still hope that PBHO will find a conflict in his schdeule that will not permit him to attend the commencement ceremony at Notre Dame.
Perhaps Father John Jenkins and the board will feel the heat and see the light and ask PBHO to find a conflict in his schedule that will not permit him to attend the commencement exercises.
If PBHO does indeed stand to make his comments then the graduates and their families, friends and fellow students can demonstrate their displeasure with both Father John Jenkins and PBHO by standing silently and turning their back to the president while he makes his remarks.
It is a very effective witness, without being disruptive. The people who want to hear some more creative lying will not be disappointed and it will be hard for the MSM to ignore.
60 Minutes Steve Kroft’s question to PBHO, “Are you punch drunk?”
Where’s the dog, bro?
yor bro ken
yor bro ken
Re: Kristen at March 25, 2009 4:42 PM
The “student newspaper” is not actually THE student newspaper, but a conservative student newspaper – one of two papers on campus, the other one being more mainstream. Investigate more before making comments.
“While he is honored to have the support of millions of people of all faiths, including Catholics with their rich tradition of recognizing the dignity of people, he does not govern with the expectation that everyone sees eye to eye with him on every position,”
…a clear sign that Obama is getting exactly what he wants out of this transaction. The support of millions of Catholics.
When (and because of the controversy,possibly if) President Obama addresses the students at the commencement ceremony, they should wear pro-life messages on their mortar boards (I doubt the school administration will allow banners), stand and turn away from Mr. Obama when he begins his address. They should sing “We Shall Overcome”…….these gestures are respectful yet their message is quite clear.
As Pope John Paul II has said “Do not be afraid!”.
To all students who value life, I say “have courage….you are not alone!”.
“In response to the University’s decision, we pledge ourselves to acts of witness that will be characterized by respect, prayerfulness, outspoken fidelity to the Church, and true concern for the good of our University.”
Yea, Ok….. We’re going to war. Put your combat boots on, get your posters out. We’re marching…
Rachel, 5:15p: I did read that last paragraph and was sorry it was added.
It is counterproductive and short-sighted for current students to want to try to control the protest(s).
There are thousands of pro-life alumni who are personally invested in ND, too. Joe Scheidler of Pro-Life Action League is a ND alumni, for instance.
Furthermore, what Fr. Jenkins did was so far beyond the pale. He didn’t invite the typical pro-abort politician to your commencement. He invited the mother of all pro-abort politicians. So Catholic pro-lifers from around the country are incensed by the extreme violation of their faith. In fact, Protestant pro-lifers like me are even incensed.
There is no way independent pro-life groups are NOT going to protest on May 16-17.
I’d let it go. Focus on organizing and protesting within your domain and welcome the alumni and independent protests. They are going to happen anyway, so it is better to embrace them than resent and fight them. Expend your energy on fighting Jenkins/Obama, not friendlies.
I am stunned that Notre Dame would even think of inviting such a morally corrupt leader as B. Hassien Obama! Have we lost are marbles? Do we need the Bishop to provide some guidance to the leadership at Notre Dame? Please, I pray to God that people who should already be spiritually awakened, wake up quick!
My daughter and I have been waiting with bated breath since November for next week. That’s when we will hear if she is accepted at ND.
Now, I wonder what to do if she is accepted. Does the action of Father Jenkins negate her dreams of attending the school? Do I really want to send my daughter and my money to ND, if its president disregards the teachings of the Church so he can gain some sort of popularity.
So today I’m not quite so excited about getting that letter in my mailbox anymore.
LB, how sad. I think you should write ND and tell them exactly what you wrote here.
LB:
I guess you really have to ask this question: What is more important, temporal gain or eternal gain?
While I am not Catholic I have sent my kids to Catholic High School and would have, before this, considered sending them to Notre Dame.
After this, no way.
Jill and others,
Apparently my relatively reserved comments haven’t really communicated how upset I am as a student, or how upset other students are at this as well. We are outraged, not only because we personally are repulsed by such an anti-life politician as Obama, but because we realize what is going on here.
This is going to be an historical moment for Catholicism in America, one which will demonstrate to millions of Catholics in America that it is OK to be pro-life AND support politicians who have such a violently anti-life agenda as President Obama. Decades of pro-life efforts at building a culture of life will be for naught. This is a watershed moment, and we are deeply sad and angry that the university where we have seen and still do see SO MUCH GOOD is right at the center of it. We are sad to see our leadership succumbing to the lie of “personally pro-life, but…” in action if not entirely in words.
THIS ALL SAID, I still believe that students, faculty and alumni of Notre Dame should be the ones LEADING the protest. We welcome the support of those who share the cause of life, but outsiders simply do not have the intimate knowledge of the life of Notre Dame and of the Notre Dame family. Simply put, you all don’t quite know exactly who the ‘enemy’ is, or why. Sure, you have your targets–Father Jenkins, the Board of Directors, the Fellows, the faculty, the students–but you don’t know what this means for the university, where this decision came from, and who is working against it and why. As an example, I believe that Bishop D’Arcy’s statement on the matter shows his deep and perceptive understanding of the reality of the matter here: in this, Notre Dame has chosen “prestige over truth.”
OF COURSE, this is bigger than Notre Dame. Of course. We are not denying that for one minute. But it is a Notre Dame event, and the reason it is so outrageous is because it is a Notre Dame event: It is simply unacceptable that a Catholic university, committed above all to the truth of Jesus Christ and its pursuit, should honor a man such as President Obama.
The reason for opposing Obama as a candidate and as a president is that he is pro-choice. The reason for opposing Obama at Notre Dame is not merely that he is pro-choice, but that it is scandalous that a Catholic institution such as Notre Dame should honor someone whose professed values and actions are antithetical to its Catholic mission. The message here is a targeted one: it cannot only be that pro-lifers oppose Obama (for many people who claim to be pro-life did vote for the man and do support his Commencement appearance); it must be that Catholics committed to the fundamental value of ALL human life oppose his being honored at by a Catholic university which professes this value.
What students are suggesting is that those who are most familiar with Notre Dame’s Catholic mission, and who are so hurt by how this decision falls short of that mission, are best equipped to lead the charge in addressing it. The prayers and support of outsiders are incredibly valuable, but why not work together to form a united front that places the essential debate at the center?
The President campaigned under a banner of UNITY and HOPE, when really we all know well that these are empty promises. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if we could respond to his presence with powerful UNITY of our own?
Rachel, that was very well said. I agree that those most intimate with ND should be the ones heading the fight.
I would encourage you to fight and fight hard and actively recruit others to come and stand with you. I agree that there should be pro-life unity, and that all of our efforsts should be coordinated with yours.
Rachel:
Now I see your passion and enthusiasm. If the Catholic Church really lived what it preached, the world would be a much better place.
Do you know what the root word for enthusiasm means? I’ll give you a clue…”in Theos”…”In God”.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with your passion for this issue and absolutely nothing wrong with your expressing it the way God is directing you to, if indeed it is He doing it.
Go to Him in prayer and then follow where He leads you.
I very much doubt He wants you to shrink back in conformity and submission, no, not on this.
You are at ND for a reason, this may be it. I don’t know but He knows.
The “student newspaper” is not actually THE student newspaper, but a conservative student newspaper – one of two papers on campus, the other one being more mainstream. Investigate more before making comments.
Posted by: Yo La Tengo at March 25, 2009 6:53 PM
Are you serious? YOU said in the above “one of two papers on campus.” What? Because you see one as more conservative it has no authority? Give me a break please. THINK about things before writing comments.
The prayers and support of outsiders are incredibly valuable, but why not work together to form a united front
Rachel, a question. In what way do you want Catholics from across the country to be part of that “united front?” Are you asking only for our prayers? I hope not because this is an affront to every Catholic, not just Catholic or prolife students at ND.
re: Kristen at March 25, 2009 10:52 PM
The conservative paper is nothing more than unbalanced vatican hackery. When it represents interests outside those of the students it ceases to be a student newspaper.
YLT, has it crossed your mind that certain students identify with “unbalanced vatican hackery,” and it serves their interests?
Rachel is absolutely right. Protests not led by students or faculty are not permitted. If independent protests occur, they may be shut down along with student protests. Further, united efforts will be much more effective and meaningful than scattered efforts. The only logical choice to lead these efforts is the segment of the university that is faithful to the Church. Coordinating a directed and effective demonstration requires an intimate knowledge of the university community, culture, practices, and policies.
re: Lauren at March 25, 2009 11:37 PM
Some students in my town read the catholic paper, it doesn’t mean that the paper speaks for all students. At most in my case and in the case of N.D. the paper speaks for a small fringe of Catholic students. Not even a majority of it’s target audience (Catholics). Contrary to the wishes of the Vatican, American Catholicism is a very liberal religion.
This is going to be an historical moment for Catholicism in America, one which will demonstrate to millions of Catholics in America that it is OK to be pro-life AND support politicians who have such a violently anti-life agenda as President Obama.
It’s an attempt to demonstrate that it’s okay to be proabortion AND Catholic which we Catholics, true to Christ KNOW is not correct. Obama has already gone out of his way to espouse this position by his appointment of proabort “catholic” politicians to posts within his government.
Therefore ALL faithful Catholics are fully invested in this protest!
Rachel: we all get it! Notre Dame has chosen “prestige over truth.” and it must be that Catholics committed to the fundamental value of ALL human life oppose his being honored at by a Catholic university which professes this value.
There is also another aspect of this situation that you are not convinced of, IMO. If Obama can make a mockery of one faith’s values and beliefs, he can and will do this to any other who holds a position in opposition to his agenda.
Remember Rachel, this is not about fighting Obama here. You are fighting principalities and powers. You need all the help you can get.
re: Kristen at March 25, 2009 10:52 PM
The conservative paper is nothing more than unbalanced vatican hackery. When it represents interests outside those of the students it ceases to be a student newspaper.
Posted by: Yo La Tengo at March 25, 2009 11:32 PM
This is the most truly communist post today.
The Uber marxists demand the paper regurgitate socialist slogans every chance it gets.
The conservative paper is nothing more than unbalanced vatican hackery. When it represents interests outside those of the students it ceases to be a student newspaper.
Posted by: Yo La Tengo at March 25, 2009 11:32 PM
It’s a CATHOLIC University! You are really showing you’re lack of intelligent thought here. I mean I knew what you’d say about the ND College Republicans but now no one can even publish a story in a student newspaper? And what the heck do you mean when it “represents interests outside those of students?” Again, it’s a CATHOLIC University, if it does, in fact, represent the Catholic Faith then I’d say it IS representing the interests of students at a CATHOLIC University. You really need to think before you post.
Contrary to the wishes of the Vatican, American Catholicism is a very liberal religion.
Posted by: Yo La Tengo at March 26, 2009 12:16 AM
There is no such thing as “American Catholicism” there are only Catholics and if they follow the Faith it is the same all over the world. If you don’t follow the Pope then you can hardly be considered a true Catholic, no matter how good it may make you feel to say you are one.
And BTW, the wishes of the Vatican ARE the wishes of Catholicism.
***Notre Dame – Isn’t It Time They Stop Calling Themselves “Catholic”?***
Notre Dame keeps showing by its actions the last thing they really are is “Catholic”.
First, it is the President of Notre Dame refusing to cancel the annual showing of the “Vagina Monlogues” play on the campus, then it was dissenting Notre Dame priest Fr. McBrien http://www.ourladyswarriors.org/dissent/disspeop.htm helping out Hollywood write the anti-Catholic film “The Da Vinci Code” and now Notre Dame invites radical Pro-Abortion, Pro-Infanticide (voted against IL Infants Protection Act which would protect babies already born from being killed) proponent President Obama to speak at their commencement.
More…
http://lifenews.com/state3966.html
http://lifenews.com/state3971.html
http://www.inforumblog.com/?p=2235#respond
Contrary to the wishes of the Vatican, American Catholicism is a very liberal religion.
Posted by: Yo La Tengo at March 26, 2009 12:16 AM
There is no such thing as “American Catholicism” there are only Catholics and if they follow the Faith it is the same all over the world. If you don’t follow the Pope then you can hardly be considered a true Catholic, no matter how good it may make you feel to say you are one.
Posted by: Kristen at March 26, 2009 7:47 AM
Kristen. YLT probabably should have written “American Catholics” rather than “American catholicism”. That’s probably what he/she meant.
Posted by: asitis at March 26, 2009 7:55 AM
It doesn’t matter. The Catholic church isn’t split along country boarders. Both are wrong and shows a complete lack of understanding of the Church.
Rachel, 9:33p: I, for one, do not doubt your angst over the Obama visit. It is something I cannot fully comprehend the depth of, because I am not in your shoes.
My concern is over this portion of the student statement that you quoted, bold highlights yours:
In response to the University’s decision, we pledge ourselves to acts of witness that will be characterized by respect, prayerfulness, outspoken fidelity to the Church, and true concern for the good of our University. It is appropriate that only members of the Notre Dame community lead all such protests, and we ask outside groups to respect our responsibilities in this regard. Over the next several weeks, in response to this scandal, our organizations will host various academic and religious events to engage the University community. We request any groups who are committed to respectful actions to support our efforts, thereby ensuring a unified front and a more compelling public witness.
Perhaps I read that wrong, and if so, please correct me. I read that to say current pro-life ND students want to authorize and be in charge of all protests and may not welcome outside protests at all but only support of your efforts.
If I am reading that correctly, it not only unrealistic, it does not give consideration to pro-life alumni, who deserve as much a place – if not more, since they have supported the school for years financially – at the table as current students.
Furthermore, you do not understand pro-life activist groups. They will, of course, be orderly and respectful. I know of no group that is not. And I’m sure they will contact you and try to work with you. But they will come, no matter if they get your blessing or not. So you might as well give it and graciously accept their place as leaders and heroes in the movement for years and years. I’m thinking of Joe Scheidler and Monica Miller, to name 2.
I am confident they do not plan to barge into the graduation. They will conduct themselves outside the bubble. That is your domain upon which to focus.
You must also understand this is not just your issue. By trying to control it, you will lose focus on your job.
This is so much larger than ND, actually. Your leaders inviting Obama represents the epitome – the worst ever – example of unorthodox Catholic collusion with pro-abortion politicians.
And I know at least one Protestant who appreciates the Catholic faith very much and takes this very personally as well, particularly because the pro-abortion player is Obama. I daresay many others feel as strongly. I know Protestants are signing the NotreDameScandal.com petition alongside Catholics. This is the type of unity the pro-life movement brings to our faiths and which should be encouraged.
Rachel, you were placed as ND students at a momentous place in your faith’s history. Proverbs 24:10 says, “If you faint in a crisis, you are weak.” I know you have the capacity to stay strong and calm because God thought so by giving you the honor of putting you at this time and place. One thing you cannot do now is get territorial.
God speed, Rachel. We’re all praying for you blessed and courageous students.
Kristen. YLT probabably should have written “American Catholics” rather than “American catholicism”. That’s probably what he/she meant.
Posted by: asitis at March 26, 2009 7:55 AM
It doesn’t matter. The Catholic church isn’t split along country boarders. Both are wrong and shows a complete lack of understanding of the Church.
Posted by: Kristen at March 26, 2009 7:57 AM
Okay. Better make that Catholics in America then.
Okay. Better make that Catholics in America then.
Posted by: asitis at March 26, 2009 8:00 AM
Why would that matter? The Catholic faith is not “American” it’s not “French” it’s not “liberal” it’s not “conservative.” It is. All Catholics are commanded to follow the Faith. Yes, we often fail, and must confess our sins and do better. It does not mean we can decide to follow this truth but not this one. This is for ALL Catholics, EVERYWHERE.
Couldn’t the students face their backs at Obama during his speech and hold up two sided pictures of babies in the womb or do something like this?
This would be just awesome and all over the national news.
They could also hold up “Red Envelopes”!
Mike
Why would that matter? The Catholic faith is not “American” it’s not “French” it’s not “liberal” it’s not “conservative.” It is. All Catholics are commanded to follow the Faith. Yes, we often fail, and must confess our sins and do better. It does not mean we can decide to follow this truth but not this one. This is for ALL Catholics, EVERYWHERE.
Posted by: Kristen at March 26, 2009 8:08 AM
I’m not suggesting that the Catholic Church is any different in America.
Kristen, I think xppc hit the nail on the head at 7:19. On another thread in which he named Christians that he admires, YLT included Jim Wallis, the activist communist preacher. I don’t think the universality of the Church is YLT’s issue.
I read that to say current pro-life ND students want to authorize and be in charge of all protests and may not welcome outside protests at all but only support of your efforts.
I took Rachel’s statement the same way. I hope that’s not what she means.
They could also hold up “Red Envelopes”!
Mike, they’re asking Fr J to give them to Obama on their behalf at the time he is presented with his honorary degree.
http://www.ndresponse.com/events033109-red.html
Jim Wallis, the activist communist preacher.
Correction: Regarding Jim Wallis, I should have said the anti-capitalism activist preacher. I don’t know if he is still as pro-communism as he used to be.
Rachel:
I do know that Joe Scheidler of the Pro Life Action League, is a Notre Dame Alumnus (and he’s one that’s outraged by this invite). It was his son Eric that alerted others to this invite.
I hope the students are able to say: “We don’t want a pro abortion speaker!” in their actions and prayers BEFORE this event happens.
This phrase caught my eye on the WH rsesponse ..that Obama loves the country for it’s “spirit of debate and healthy disagreement”
————————————-
“Debate” and “Healthy” disagreements do not cost millions upon millions of unborn lives…
RSD, we had a “healthy” “debate” over the Iraq war and that costs hundreds of thousands of deaths…
What does the Iraq war have to do with abortion? Im not sure I see your “logic.”
The Catholic church isn’t split along country boarders.
lol. Your spelling makes your comment funny on one level, and your lack of understanding about catholic culture around the world makes me laugh on another level. Go to a church in Spain, and you will see the mass celebrated differently, Go to a church in a hospital and you will see differences yet again. God is the same, but the rituals and the beliefs vary as do people and the context in which they find themselves in. The very fact that “the catholic vote” is not one unified bloc proves my point all the more.
YLT,
Picking on typos and/or spelling? Very classy of you!
As far your comment goes….the Catholic church has certain rules and beliefs that MUST be followed as decided by the Pope. Certianly there are deviations in specific rituals, but the beliefs and ethical stances are the SAME.
To put it more simply for you, there is no RELEVENT difference between Catholics.
Heck, if we wanted to argue about the differences period we could simply say that they are in different countries and that alone makes them different. What would that have to do with the argument about ethical decisions?
Hey guys, there is a huge divide in the Democratic party! If you think about it the Democrats in Maryland are different from the ones in Virginia, because they are in Maryland! See there is a difference!
Right Oliver. YLT, it seems to me that when you talk of how it is in Spain, you are acknowledging the fact that the Catholic Church has different rites, which is something any of us would have admitted to you. There are 20 some, I believe. We here in the west are familiar with the Latin rite, but there is the Coptic rite, the Syrian rite, Byzantine rite, etc. All of these differ in tradition with a lower case “t” or in custom. They celebrate mass differently and have different holy days, etc. but they all hold to the same doctrine. Doctrine and discipline must be distinguished.
YLT: Please don’t stoop to mocking misspellings. Stick to the debate.
Hal,
Debates/ Disagreements costing millions and millions of unborn lives are not and will never be considered a “healthy” debate.
That’s right up there with pregnancy being called a “punishment”.
But hey, president abortion can always say it’s ” above his pay grade” right?
Rachel, you were placed as ND students at a momentous place in your faith’s history. Proverbs 24:10 says, “If you faint in a crisis, you are weak.” I know you have the capacity to stay strong and calm because God thought so by giving you the honor of putting you at this time and place. One thing you cannot do now is get territorial.
God speed, Rachel. We’re all praying for you blessed and courageous students.
Posted by: Jill Stanek at March 26, 2009 7:58 AM
I completely agree with you Jill.
Rachel was put in this place at this time for a reason – whatever is needed for this fight, she has!
You will be in my prayers as will your fellow students. I especially ask the Holy Spirit to guide you!
God bless!
Posted by: yo la Tengo at March 26, 2009 12:14 PM
Oops – borders. Come now, you’ve never made a spelling error?
Oliver and Bobby already corrected YOUR misunderstanding of the Church. I don’t think my spelling error is half as laughable as your error regarding the Church. LOL!
Rachel –
Just remember… “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.”
I am also praying for you.
The Republicans withdrew their invitation for George W. Bush to speak at last summer’s National Convention in St.Paul. But I think N.D has more class than the G.O.P. They’ll do the right thing, and overlook this tempest in a tea pot. The honor bestowed upon the University by Obama’s address far outweighs any perceived slight from a single special interest group.
I hope those in attendance enjoy every minute of their extraordinary good fortune.
Perhaps it is time for the Bishops who disagree with this to make an appeal to His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI to intervene. Maybe if a letter arrives from the Vatican Fr. Jenkins and the Board would be persuaded to rescind the invitation and invite someone who not only espouses the academic ideals of Notre Dame, but the ideals of the Christian Faith as well. In an earlier post someone mentioned that we should not be afraid to invite people who profess different opinions to engage in dialogue, but this is not a debate on campus. This is a time for people to celebrate their accomplishments, and to join in unity as Catholics. But, perhaps it is fitting that Mr. Obama is speaking, for it bespeaks to the disunity within the church itself. It is time for the church to do some soul searching and see what is most important. Many Catholics in the last election told us what was more important by their vote. Let this be a wake up call to the Church.
ADD THESE email addresses in the your TO section, when protesting Notre Dame’s horrendous slap in the face to Our Lady!
president@nd.edu, jbradley@nd.edu, Srregina@rlb.us.com,
“sfocht@nd.edu” , “vocation.1@nd.edu” , “indcscdv@nd.edu” ,
provost@nd.edu, Lykoudis.1@nd.edu, “pkilpat1@nd.edu” , science@nd.edu,GradSch@nd.edu,dmayerni@nd.edu, hood.11@nd.edu, nhoyt@nd.edu,fh@p2arch.com,
jed@adgoffice.com, Economakis.1@nd.edu, Buccellato.5@nd.edu, Crowe.2@nd.edu, DeFrees.3@nd.edu, Doordan.1@nd.edu, abuccellato@nd.edu, Bullene.3@nd.edu, Brandt.5@nd.edu, pbess@nd.edu, bass.11@nd.edu, ias@nd.edu, Younes.1@nd.edu, Westfall.2@nd.edu, contact@holycrosscongregation.org, studegov@nd.edu, agwyrick@alumni.nd.edu, irishladym@comcast.net, irishtiny@embarqmail.com, mcgreevy.5@nd.edu, swonger.1@nd.edu, Carolyn.Y.Woo.5@nd.edu, archmazzola@tiscalinet.it, hpage@nd.edu, theology.theo.1@nd.edu, rreish@nd.edu, gschmid1@nd.edu, kkoski2@nd.edu, NDresponse@gmail.com
I would also CC the Pope’s office, as well as these:
BenedictXVI@vatican.va,
mfox@archchicago.org,
catholiceducation@usccb.org
KEEP UP THE AMAZING WORK!
CHRISTUS IMPERAT!
Kristen – I haven’t got a misunderstanding of the church – rather I have seen the different ways that faith is expressed and worship is carried out even amongst churches of the Latin Rite. The mere existance of the Tridentine mass and the Ordinary mass being said at the same church proves my point. I suspect a mass said in Spanish and for a spanish speaking audience has yet another variation on the theme, though I’ve never had the experience of being at such a service.
I was born and raised catholic – I’ve got 14 years of masses, cerimonies, confessions and communions under my belt and my father is a scholar of church history. I think I know what I am talking about.
YLT,
Do you understand the difference between Tradition and tradition?
Thousands of red index fingers on commencement day would send a message that the innocent blood of the murdered unborn should not be ignored.
Red fingers would remind others of the purple index fingers proudly displayed by those who participated in the first free elections in Irag last year.
Those who care about the dignity of human life have an opportunity to visually link pro-life to pro-freedom (i.e. without life there is no freedom).
“The Truth” (Big “T”) sets us free before freedom leads us to “truth” (little “t”).
Yours in Christ, David
Thousands of red index fingers on commencement day would send a message that the innocent blood of the murdered unborn should not be ignored.
Red fingers would remind others of the purple index fingers proudly displayed by those who participated in the first free elections in Irag last year.
Those who care about the dignity of human life have an opportunity to visually link pro-life to pro-freedom (i.e. without life there is no freedom).
“The Truth” (Big “T”) sets us free before freedom leads us to “truth” (little “t”).
Yours in Christ, David
Pray for Fr Jenkins conversion and his obedience to the Holy See.
Gary