BREAKING: Archbishop will join black leaders to decry NYC’s skyrocketing abortions and pregnancy care center harassment
Chris Slattery, president of EMC Frontline Pregnancy Centers, announced on Facebook last night that New York Archbishop Timothy Dolan, also president of the US Conference of Catholic Bishops, will join Alveda King and other African-American leaders on January 10 for a rally spotlighting New York City’s ghastly abortion rate, particularly among blacks. The group will also speak out against a NYC Council bill that seeks to harass pregnancy care centers.
Archbishop Dolan (photo below) was part of a news conference yesterday (also attended and reported on by our own Gerard Nadal) decrying NYC’s abortion statistics, as reported by the New York Times:
The gathering of the religious leaders… was prompted by the release last month of city health department statistics showing a 41% rate of abortion overall in 2009, including a rate close to 60% for black women.
This means 41% of all pregnancies in the NYC area end in abortion, with 60% of all black babies aborted.
Pro-lifers consider NYC the abortion capital of the US. According to the statistics linked above (Tables 4.13, 4.17) the number of abortions in NYC and the 5 boroughs totaled an shocking 174,546 in 2009. If the national annual totals are 1.2 million, as Guttmacher states, then abortions in the NYC region account for 14.5% of all US abortions.
For these reasons, the NYC Council’s introduction late last year of a bill attacking its pregnancy care centers would appear particularly untimely, aside from the fact it is onerous and unconstitutional.
Bill #371 , mimicking ordinances passed in Baltimore and Austin, would force prcs to post signage that they do not commit abortions or distribute contraceptives. They would also have to post if no doctor is on the premises.
Penalties are harsh: a fine of $200-1,000 for the 1st violation and $500-2,500 for subsequent violations; then a shut-down for 3 violations; then jail time up to 6 months for refusing to shut down.
But perhaps the adverse attention in conjunction with NYC’s staggering abortion figures will embarrass pro-abort city council members into backing away. Sign a petition here.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
If any, and I mean any of those “leaders” voted for Obama, then spare us the dismay.
Every time I read about this I get so angry! Are abortion clinics going to post that they have no adoption facilitator on the premises? They’re pro-“choice” but yet they try to take away choices from women. Why don’t they just fess up? They are pro-ABORTION, not choice as their actions so clearly demonstrate.
Nothing will convince abortionist politicians to back off, especially not those in Manhattan. They have aggressive pressure groups backing them, they have a large sexually liberal and virulently abortionist counterculture community supporting them and they have large numbers of Black and Hispanic voters who blindly support Democratic Party politicians for any office, no matter how much damage such politicians do to the lives of such minority voters. They have nothing to fear from the unborn human rights movement at this time I’m afraid.
The only other barrier to these politicians supporting the crime of prenatal homicide would be a highly developed conscience and that is not exactly the hallmark of the abortionist politician, now is it?
Regarding the Catholic Church, just what do they propose to do to stop the killing of our children? This is the same Catholic Church which in the last 45 years has excommunicated precisely zero politicians around the World who support prenatal homicide and who are masquerading as “Catholics”. Archbishop Dolan did nothing to try to stop militant abortionist Andrew Cuomo from being unhappily elected Governor of New York, in which position he is likely to kill over 100,000 of his fellow human beings, unborn children, with the taxpayers money, in the next four years.
Anti human politicians, like Cuomo and the New York City “leaders”, know that they can get away with pretty much anything they like and the Catholic Church (and the other Christian churches) will look the other way.
Five or six million human beings in the unborn stage have died by violence since the New York Sate legislature “legalized” the terrible crime of prenatal homicide in 1970. After 40 years of this horror, isn’t it a bit late for the Church and others to finally be noticing?
“Every time I read about this I get so angry! Are abortion clinics going to post that they have no adoption facilitator on the premises?”
Abortion clinics make it clear what services they perform. “Crisis pregnancy centers”, on the other hand, as I have noted before, are duplicitous about the services they offer. Of course, if I’m wrong and these centers are already totally upfront about what they offer, then adding an additional sign stating that they don’t offer abortions or contraception shouldn’t be a problem, right? The only reason I can fathom for why anyone would have a problem with this regulation is that they specifically want these centers to be able to misrepresent their services and lure in pregnant women under false pretenses in order to try and “convert” them to pro-life.
“Regarding the Catholic Church, just what do they propose to do to stop the killing of our children? This is the same Catholic Church which in the last 45 years has excommunicated precisely zero politicians around the World who support prenatal homicide and who are masquerading as “Catholics”. ”
As you may recall, the Catholic Church did, at one point, intertwine itself into such political matters. In fact, it did so for hundreds of years. The results were executions for heresy, Crusades, and the Inquisition, among other atrocities. As a Catholic, I would be repulsed if the Church excommunicated politicians who don’t tow the “official” line on political issues. The Church is an ecclesiastical body, and as history has consistently shown, politics and religion do not mix.
What do you think Abortion Alternatives means Joan??
All a woman has to do is call and ask if they do abortions. When she hears the word NO, she will hang up if an abortion is what she is shopping for.
You need to do a little more homework. Try volunteering at a CPC.
So then why are these signs such a problem? Will they, in any way, burden the ability of CPC’s to do their mission?
WHY in the world should a CPC have to post a sign?
PP will do likewise right? Photos of bloody fetuses all over their buildings to “advertise” what goes on in their mills??
The question is “why not?” Can you foresee any problems at all arising from having to post a sign? What is the difficulty here? And if you wanted to have Planned Parenthood put up signs saying “we don’t have “counselors” of dubious qualifications attempting to dissuade women from getting abortions here”, that would be fine by me.
Joan,
Many women who come into CPC’s aren’t always aware that they aren’t abortion clinics. The signs are meant to drive them away before they can enter and discover the resources available to them, the very resources they despair of not having and that drives them to consider abortion.
The larger question is why the City Council doesn’t require signs on the front door, waiting rooms, and ads of abortion clinics which state their truth:
Approximately 10% of women undergoing elective abortion will suffer immediate complications, of which approximately one-fifth (2%) are considered life threatening. The nine most common major complications which can occur at the time of an abortion are:
Infection
Excessive bleeding
Embolism
Ripping or perforation of the uterus
Anesthesia complications
Convulsions
Hemorrhage
Cervical injury
Endotoxic shock.
The most common “minor” complications include:
Infection
Bleeding
Fever
Second degree burns
Chronic abdominal pain
Vomiting
Gastro-intestinal disturbances
Rh sensitization
It’s an important question, because CPC’s don’t harm women, while abortionists do, with great regularity.
Joan:
You are NOT a Catholic. If you read the works of St. Augustine, St. Thomas Aquinas, all the true Popes and Church Councils, they all say the same thing: you must accept every article in the Deposit of Faith or you are not a part of the Church. The Church considers its teachings to be the revealed word of God and that its Popes and Councils are guided by the Holy Spirit. If you dissent from infallible Church teaching in any way, you are disagreeing with God and are not, cannot be a Catholic.
As a militant supporter of the crime and mortal sin (according to the Church) of prenatal homicide, it is beyond preposterous to claim to be a “Catholic”. If you could ask any of the Saints and Popes in history if such a person as you could be called a “Catholic”, they would to the last man and woman say “no way”. Are you now claiming to know Catholic theology and moral teaching better than say, St. Thomas Aquinas, considered by many to be the greatest theologian of history? If I cannot disagree with “Jewish” leaders, why can you disagree with “Catholic” leaders?
“Executions for heresy”? Excuse me, but you strongly support “executions for inconvenience” (for our unborn children), do you not? Plus, everyone ever “executed for heresy” you would have allowed to have been “executed” in the first nine months of life. If we can kill EVERY human being in the first nine months of life and deprive EVERY human being of an entire human lifespan, why would it matter if we are “executed” later on? You are killing the same human being and taking away the same human lifespan.
Opponents of unborn human rights need to start applying LOGIC to your inhuman fallacies. If you do so in an intellectually honest fashion, you will find that your “arguments” will collapse because they are completely empty.
“Executions for heresy”? Excuse me, but you strongly support “executions for inconvenience” (for our unborn children), do you not? Plus, everyone ever “executed for heresy” you would have allowed to have been “executed” in the first nine months of life. If we can kill EVERY human being in the first nine months of life and deprive EVERY human being of an entire human lifespan, why would it matter if we are “executed” later on? You are killing the same human being and taking away the same human lifespan.
Ouch! Call 911 Joan and get to an ER for some first aid.
joan,
How many abortion clinics actually advertise as “abortion clinics”. They’re “women’s centers” “women’s health services” and other such flowery names. Could this be deceptive to the woman looking for a breast exam or prenatal care?
Why don’t they just hang a sign saying “Abortion Clinic”?
“Many women who come into CPC’s aren’t always aware that they aren’t abortion clinics. The signs are meant to drive them away before they can enter and discover the resources available to them, the very resources they despair of not having and that drives them to consider abortion.”
So you admit that a key strategy for CPC’s is to attract women under false pretenses?
A rhetorical question. Of course it is. If they wanted to make it clear what they offer, they would call themselves “abortion prevention centers” instead.
“Approximately 10% of women undergoing elective abortion will suffer immediate complications, of which approximately one-fifth (2%) are considered life threatening. The nine most common major complications which can occur at the time of an abortion are:”
Tell me, doctor, what are the rates of complications, and ranges of severity thereof, for other elective medical procedures, such as cardiovascular surgery? Somehow I doubt 10% is unseemly.
Joan,
There are no false pretenses. We advertise “Free Abortion Alternatives”.
The false pretense is in telling women abortions are safe, and not advertising up front that they also leave women incapable of having children.
You’re going to lose this fight Joan, because the science exposes your lies. Stick to slogans, but don’t try arguing against the biomedical literature.
“If I cannot disagree with “Jewish” leaders, why can you disagree with “Catholic” leaders?”
I never said you can’t disagree with them. Of course you can. I said that it’s absurd to try and argue that their interpretation of religious doctrine is wrong even though you’re not a practicing member of the faith. I did not say that there is no room for disagreement within a religion. Of course there is. And the reality, whether you want to admit it or not, is that there are millions of Catholics just like me who are not stuck in the Middle Ages and have their own beliefs about a variety of subjects that the Catholic Church proper differs on.
“How many abortion clinics actually advertise as “abortion clinics”. They’re “women’s centers” “women’s health services” and other such flowery names. Could this be deceptive to the woman looking for a breast exam or prenatal care?”
Most if not all such clinics do in fact offer a broad range of reproductive health services including but not limited to abortion.
CC,
“Long story short” is the way to sound truthful when engaging in lies and slurs. Tell the whole story, or else I think the mods need to take down your inflammatory lie.
“There are no false pretenses. We advertise “Free Abortion Alternatives”.”
What do you mean there are no false pretenses? You just admitted that there are by saying that women often come to the CPC’s with the belief that they offer abortions and that the problem with signs stating that abortions are not performed would be that it would stop that from happening.
“The false pretense is in telling women abortions are safe, ad not advertising up front that they also leave women incapable of having children.”
They are safe. By your own statistics, only 10% of abortions have any complications, and of that only 2% are life-threatening. I asked you what the rate of complications is for other elective medical procedures and you have not provided that information, which suggests to me that when considered in the broader context of elective medical procedures, abortion is extremely safe.
CC
Any mention of pedophile priests will be deleted.
Joan,
Let’s understand this carefully. We do not engage in false advertising. We advertise “Free Abortion Alternatives”. Some women, in a fog of despair, come in thinking we do abortions.
Now, the abortion industry will grab such a woman and tell her that her 4, 6, 8, 10, 12 week-old baby is “just a blob of tissue”, “just a clump of cells”.
Our sonogram machines are employed to reveal to women the truth of who and what they have within them. That in conjunction with supportive counseling and the revelation of an armamentarium of resources most don’t even know exist is enough to help 90% of them decide to keep their baby.
In other words, we tell the truth and provide the resources that enable a woman to transition from reluctantly engaging in what they believe to be their only option, to making a genuine CHOICE. And that’s why pro-aborts wet their pants in fear. 90% is a giant bite out of Planned Parenthood’s lunch. Our sonograms disarm your lies and manipulations of women’s fears.
I’ll bet that’s infuriating.
While we’re on the topic, truth and integrity, abortion “clinics” do not follow the standard of care in gynecologic and obstetric surgery. Women are supposed to be tested for STD’s prior to surgery. If a woman has Chlamydia and it is not treated and eliminated prior to the abortion, there is a 23% probability that she will develop PID within 4 weeks.
Nope, the only question the abortionist has is, “Visa or Mastercard?”
We offer a safe place to land. Keep arguing against the PRC’s, Joan. You’re looking uglier with every post.
Joan,
I don’t know why all of that text remained bold. Only the word “truth was supposed to be bold. So please do not interpret that snafu as my yelling. Thanks.
How many women have been harmed and their children killed at a CPC?
Joan:
You are NOT a Catholic, but a “Catholic”. The definition of a Catholic is someone who accepts EVERY article in the Deposit of Faith. If you disagree with Church teaching on ANYTHING you are NOT a Catholic.
You are a classic example of a supporter of the crime of prenatal homicide. Everything you say contains a whole range of (sometimes very subtle) fallacies. I really believe that you don’t see that. I find it very frustrating and distressing and I have been noticing this all my life, certainly with the abortionist movement and with other movements as well. There are some people in the unborn human rights movement who are this way as well, but it is not nearly as prevalent on our side. It would be very difficult for me to get you to see this because you have no incentive to accept this about yourself.
Some of those fallacies are:
That I cannot analyze arguments of those in another religion
That if a belief comes from the Middle Ages it must be bad
That abortion is “elective surgery”
That one can be a Catholic while rejecting Catholic teaching
I notice this with you and CC and the other opponents of fundamental human rights on this site. If you look at the major anti unborn human rights pressure groups, their “leaders” offer a blizzard of fallacies and intellectual dishonesty whenever they speak: non sequiturs, doublespeak, twisting the language, distorting their opponents arguments, euphemisms, evasions, etc. It appears that the movement supporting unlimited lethal violence against all human beings passing through the first nine months of life attracts people who are particularly intellectually dishonest and irrational. I am not trying to offend anyone by saying this. I consider it to be a reality of life and I think it needs to be addressed.
Joan,
Money, not the well-being of pregnant women, is the motivating factor behind the NYC council bill. It’s plain as day. The PCC’s have important work to do helping women, more important than making sure a politically correct sign is posted by their door. Don’t you think the NYC health Dept. would make better use of their time by making sure the abortionists are maintaining clean, safe facilities and keeping their licenses up to date?
If the NYC bill passes, the pregnancy care centers should use their freedom of speech to tell it like it is in no uncertain terms: We Love You. Your Baby is Safe with Us.
joan, 12:03PM
Most if not all clinics do in fact offer a broad range of reproductive health services including but not limited to abortion.
Doesn’t wash joan. CPCs also offer a variety of services which include referral, free pregnancy testing, clothing, couselling, emergency shelter, etc. So, why should a sign specify that the CPC will not refer or perform abortions? Some of the clients are there asking for other kinds of assistance, some have already had babies, some aren’t even pregnant.
Using your rationale, a facility must then specify on a sign that it performs abortions. “Reproductive Services” is vague and indefinite. Does this include postnatal care and infertility treatment? Shouldn’t the woman be accurately and honestly advised as to exactly what services are being provided?
So I’m sure you agree joan that if a CPC must post a sign specifying that it does not refer or perform abortions, even while providing other services that may have nothing to do with a client having an abortion, then every clinic that performs abortions, even though it provides other services, must post a sign specifying the fact it performs abortions.
Fair is fair, wouldn’t you agree joan?
Just a note, Rush Limbaugh is talking about the NY Times article regarding the ridiculously high rates of minority abortions and how this will relate to plummeting numbers of future Democrat voters. The numbers for Hispanics are also quite high. Can’t these groups see the forest for the trees?
May God bless and motivate New York area pro-lifers to attend the rally on January 10, 2011.
Gerard,
I did not know that about STD testing before an abortion. Thank you for sharing that!!
Janet,
I hear you and I have asked the question again and again. Given the history of the Democrat Party, including support of slavery and the establishment of the KKK and segregation, why do African Americans continue to give their blind support to this bunch?
“Let’s understand this carefully. We do not engage in false advertising. We advertise “Free Abortion Alternatives”. Some women, in a fog of despair, come in thinking we do abortions.”
How is the situation you described not false advertising? You’ve already made it clear that at least some of the women who visit these crisis pregnancy centers do so only because they think that they offer abortions and that putting up a sign explicitly stating otherwise would drive those particular women away. How is that not an admission that at least part of the over-all strategy in play here is to attract women under false pretenses?
“I’ll bet that’s infuriating.”
No, what’s infuriating is that you’ve all but come out and explicitly stated that it’s a desirable goal to mislead women if it results in them not seeking abortions afterwards, and yet you’re insisting that there is no dishonesty whatsoever intended.
“You are NOT a Catholic, but a “Catholic”. The definition of a Catholic is someone who accepts EVERY article in the Deposit of Faith. If you disagree with Church teaching on ANYTHING you are NOT a Catholic.”
If you want to believe that, be my guest. Of course, it excludes probably about 98% of practicing Catholics, but hey, if you really want to think that only that 2% of hardcore believers are “real” Catholics, I really don’t care.
“Doesn’t wash joan. CPCs also offer a variety of services which include referral, free pregnancy testing, clothing, couselling, emergency shelter, etc. So, why should a sign specify that the CPC will not refer or perform abortions?”
Because, as we have established, some women will go there under the mistaken impression that they offer abortions, and this is, according to Gerard Nadal, by design rather than by accident.
“So I’m sure you agree joan that if a CPC must post a sign specifying that it does not refer or perform abortions, even while providing other services that may have nothing to do with a client having an abortion, then every clinic that performs abortions, even though it provides other services, must post a sign specifying the fact it performs abortions. ”
That would be redundant and unnecessary, considering any clinic that performs abortions already wants potential customers to know of that fact and probably advertises it in some way. They have nothing to hide and no reason to mislead people into believing otherwise. It would be like demanding that McDonalds put up signs stating that they serve cheeseburgers.
The unhappy reality regarding the minority communities, the killing of unborn children and the Democratic Party is this: not only do Black and Hispanic mothers kill 60% of all unborn children killed in this country, but the minority vote helps keep the Democratic Party in power. This helps to maintain unlimited “legal” killing of our unborn children.
If you factor out the Black and Hispanic vote the last 30 years or so, the Republicans would very likely have achieved supermajorities in the House and Senate and would control the White House. We need a Republican supermajority to have a pro-life conservative simple majority, enough to pass federal legislation to stop the Abortion Holocaust.
It is the Black and Hispanic vote which blocks us every year from electing large numbers of pro-life Republicans to stop prenatal homicide in this country. Why do we almost never hear anything about this from our pro-life leaders?
joan, 1:39PM
Still doesn’t wash.
Even if the woman is under the mistaken impression the CPC offers abortion, who or what stops her from walking out? I volunteered at a CPC and short of threatening a client with a deadly weapon or forcibly restraining her, I know of no way a client could be forced to stay. Any suggestions?
Redundant and unnecessary? Advertises in some way? Nothing to hide?
No no no joan, according to your rationale it must be on a sign specifying that abortion is performed at the facility, otherwise it is misleading. A woman may walk in to “reproductive services” or ”woman care” looking for a breast exam or prenatal care, only to discover that only abortions are performed. One might even question if this is an effort to “lure” unsuspecting pregnant women into having abortions. We can’t have that, just as we can’t have a woman walking into a CPC and discovering it doesn’t provide or refer for abortion.
Fair is fair, right joan?
I do not think that CPC’s lie to mothers or try to mislead them, but that is beside the point. If the only way to save the life of a human being is to lie and mislead, then it is completely morally acceptable. I value honesty, but telling a lie is by far the lesser of two evils when compared with depriving a human being of life.
Besides, why would an opponent of unborn human rights and a supporter of the crime of prenatal homicide care about lying and dishonesty? After all, the abortionist movement has systematically and relentlessly lied about virtually everything the entire 45 year history of its organized existence. It is without a doubt the most intellectually dishonest and deceitful movement in human history.
Besides, who cares if a woman is lied to or mislead? After all, opponents of human rights supported the killing of these very same women in the unborn stage of their lives 20 to 30 years ago. If they can be killed, why can’t they be mislead (assuming they are, which I don’t think they are)?
The hard reality is these centers have saved millions of human lives around the world over the last few decades. More power to them!
If everyone in human society was rational and moral and therefore did not support prenatal homicide we would not need the work and the sacrifice of these unselfish people who are trying to protect children from the violence of the abortionists. We would not even need an organized unborn human rights movement if people like Joan and CC and all others who are like minded would overcome their lack of regard for human life and human rights.
Not counting CC’s which I didn’t see, we have eight 8 from Joan plus 26 = $34. My CPCs thank you very much.
I just love the old Middle Ages crock. (That’s today’s bonus word: crock).
Over a period of 400 years, if we tally up ALL the deaths during the Inquisition, ALL the deaths due to crusaders (who statisitically mostly died of disease themselves on the road), and ALL the deaths due to ‘witch persecution’ we get a whopping (drumroll please) 200,000 total deaths. Keep up Joan, that’s 200,000 deaths over a period of 400 years.
Abortion in the US alone, between 1973 and 2008 which is a measly 35 years, more than 52 million American children were murdered, not counting twins and triplets.
Let’s see that again:
400 years: 200,000 dead
vs
35 years: 52,000,000 dead
So, get up on your high and dead horse and try that one again, Joan. Who are the deathmongers??? Because it looks to me that your peeps make our peeps look like rank amateurs. That’s a ratio of 1 to 260, which means for every one person killed because of the Church and the western European royalty, abortionists kill 260 in the United States alone. I don’t even want to do the math with the worldwide statistics that include China. AND, let’s not forget that the crusades ended HUNDREDS OF YEARS AGO and yes, that was yelling.
“Even if the woman is under the mistaken impression the CPC offers abortion, who or what stops her from walking out?”
Under normal cirumstances, nothing, but in her vulnerable emotional state she could potentially be manipulated into taking a course of action that she otherwise had not intended and would not do; if what Gerard Nadal said is true, some CPC’s are banking on this being the case.
And in a more general sense, your reasoning could be used to argue that there should be no laws against false advertising to begin with, because people are always free to leave a commercial establishment even if they were misled there.
” A woman may walk in to “reproductive services” or ”woman care” looking for a breast exam or prenatal care, only to discover that only abortions are performed.”
And if such an establishment offers those services, she could still get them there. If it doesn’t, then the proper analogy would be putting up signs saying that they don’t perform breast exams or prenatal care, not putting up signs saying that they perform abortions. Of course, the fact remains that abortion clinics are not evasive or misrepresentative about advertising the services they perform. CPC’s are. That’s the root problem here.
Joan, I suggest you do yourself a favor and find a religion that caters to your liberal lifestyle. The Catholic Church is not going to change their views on abortion, marriage, pre-marital sex, contraception, homosexuality, etc. Why don’t you find yourself a nice little religion that will make you feel good about all the evil you support .. there are plenty of them out there.
OR you can listen to your conscience and pray, fast and repent.
$35
Joan, I think getreal’s onto something. May I suggest the Temple of Set or perhaps the Abbey of Thelema? Lol! I’m just kidding… but keep commenting. There’s a baby boom brewing and the CPC’s are gonna need car seats and booties!
How about the time a woman brought her pregnant daughter in for an ultrasound – PP said “sure…no problem!” the mother (grandmother to the little baby) was sure to ask: we are keeping the baby – can we still have an ultrasound? Again PP: sure!
when she was brought in, they did the intake paperwork and gave the mother a form for the risks to ultrasound. They included “bleeding, infection, etc.” the mother (grandmother) asked – is this the form for the ultrasound? This makes no sense. The PP personnel were trying to trick the mother into signing a consent form for an abortion, which the mother and girl did NOT want, as stated repeatedly before and during their visit to PP.
Needless to say, the mother and the daughter came out of there incensed, marched right over to us and proclaimed what PP tried to do. “Not to my grandbaby!” the mother stated flatly!
She swore that they would never be back because of the horrible way they were treated. PP’s ONLY goal was to try to force that girl into an abortion. An unwanted abortion.
Talk about false advertising.
Now imagine what would have happened if a young girl walked in without their mom. And that happens all the time.
Joan,
Locate for me the planned parenthood that provides such reproductive health services as labor & delivery support. Comprehensive prenatal healthcare. How about the planned parenthood that provides basic prenatal healthcare? That is, after the pregnancy test and state-mandated (preabortion) ultrasound?
Because I’ll tell you a story about a young woman who found herself pregnant and poor and believed from the hype that planned parenthood could help with affordable prenatal care. I’ll tell you about this young woman going into the planned parenthood under the false pretense that they would provide the pregnancy test and then “discuss prenatal care options” only to discover the intent: to get the positive test and discuss abortion as an “option.” As the “option.”
Thanks to God, I was blessed with a strong pro-life household growing up and I know and knew the humanity of the pre-born. Thanks to my mother and father’s positive influences and openness to life, I was able to carry my head high when I walked out of that planned parenthood with my baby still alive. I know now never to turn to them in time of need. The answer, to an abortionist, must always be the same. Abort abort abort!
I will support your bill for CPCs on the day when abortion clinics nationwide start posting signs that state very clearly, “We do not provide adoption counseling. We do not provide prenatal care. We provide healthcare for women seeking contraception and abortion. We do not provide post-abortion counseling services.”
joan, 2:12PM
Oh come on, aren’t we being a bit partronizing? I’ve never seen a woman’s “vulnerable emotional state” force her to sit in a CPC or return when she doesn’t want to. BTW, do you suppose abortion clinics could turn a pregnant woman’s “vulnerable emotional state” to their advantage?
joan, exactly what constitutes false advertising? Are you a victim of false advertising when you go in a store and they don’t carry your item? Your sign says you’re a grocery store, why don’t you have this item?? How do you react? Most likely with annoyance and then seek another store. Happens all the time to all of us.
joan, if a pregnant woman mistakenly enters a “woman’s health” facility that does not specifiy on a sign that it provides abortion seeking prenatal care, only to discover it provides only abortion and no prenatal care, is this any less false advertising and perhaps an effort to lure unsuspecting women?
joan your last paragraph is laughable. What business lists the services they DON’T provide?? Do you look for a doctor based on the services he/she doesn’t provide?
Why shouldn’t abortion clinics put up signs saying they perform abortions? As you say they are not evasive or misrepresentative about advertising the services they perform. Great, so let’s see the signs.
I’ve never seen a woman’s “vulnerable emotional state” force her to sit in a CPC or return when she doesn’t want to. BTW, do you suppose abortion clinics could turn a pregnant woman’s “vulnerable emotional state” to their advantage?
Oh, Mary, don’t you KNOW? When a woman enters a CPC, she is “vulnerable and emotional” and clearly she cannot make her own decisions. When she enters an abortion clinic, she is “empowered and clearheaded.” It’s the most amazing thing. Quite the phenomenon, don’t you think?
“in her vulnerable emotional state she could potentially be manipulated into taking a course of action that she otherwise had not intended and would not do”
Joan,
This is ridiculous. The pregnant woman has a great deal of time to change her mind. Do you think the CPCs send someone home to keep her “on the path”? Do you think they keep her in a back room until she’s ready to give birth? Of course not! If her mind is so easily swayed to keep her baby, and she does not change it after leaving the CPC, what really was motivating her decision anyway? We’re not talking about abortion, where the decision is made & the life is exterminated, before the woman has a chance to contemplate her decision. In all too many states, the mother has 9 months to change her mind! What harm could CPCs possibly be doing, in encouraging her to consider her other options?!?
A former friend of mine got pregnant and went to PP with her boyfriend. She planned to keep the baby but didn’t tell PP that. She thought maybe they would help her get financial assistance. When she went there she had begun lightly bleeding. They did an ultrasound and sadly there was no heartbeat. They told her she was miscarrying. She asked them for medical help and they told her “We can’t provide you with medical help. See your normal gynecologist.” WHA?
So much for the multiple wide-ranging services they provide. They couldn’t even help this girl during a miscarriage. She had to seek REAL medical help for that.
Hi Kel and MaryRose,
Excellent points.
MaryRose, a very beautiful name BTW, I should also point out that many of our clients gave only the most minimal info about themselves and this was always their option. Others were very open. Most went only by first names. Others refused to give an address, phone number, or any information about themselves. This decision by the client was always respected so for the most part we couldn’t find clients after they left even if we wanted to!
Also harassment of clients for any reason or under any circumstances, i.e. unwanted phone calls, personal contact, or through the mail(the old days!) was expressly forbidden.
Mary,
I should also mention that with my second pregnancy, I went to a CPC for the initial pregnancy test. I was absolutely floored by the level of compassion, love, understanding, and acceptance the staff exhibited. They started by asking me how I felt about the pregnancy and what our plans were. They offered us scientifically sound prenatal development information, an ultrasound, and a number of different resources. We were in a fairly sound financial position and had gone in primarily to know what the CPC experience as like, but we were still offered prenatal and postnatal classes, maternity clothing, all sorts of childcare supplies, vitamins, and quite a few materials about receiving healthcare and other financial aids both during pregnancy and beyond.
Ever since, I have made a point of contributing to that CPC whenever we find ourselves with a bit extra.
I have personally counseled women at a CPC who have kept their babies and I’ve counseled some who went through with their abortions.
One of them (who had aborted because she was about to enter the military) later returned so I could tell her two much younger friends about the benefits of abstinence so they didn’t find themselves in her situation one day. Her words to me were, “You gave me all the facts and treated me with respect, and I knew this was where I needed to bring my friends so they could get the real facts.”
We didn’t sell these women anything. They came to the CPC of their own accord and left of their own accord. Each woman receives the same information on abortion and fetal development and a presentation of the Gospel, and they’re given the CHOICE to do with that information what they will.
Joan,
No matter how many abortions a woman has had (yourself included?), no matter how unforgivable she may feel because of them, and no matter how angry at God she may feel because of having been lead astray by the evil one, His open arms on that crucifix hanging high above the altar are always welcoming us back to His fold. The only request He makes of us is to ask, through the power granted a priest in the confessional, is repentance and a heartfelt desire to avoid future temptations. The prayer of absolution is powerful and grace-giving. I will continue to pray for the conversion of ALL hearts, including my own.
“A sound tree cannot bear bad fruit any more than a decayed tree can bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. You can tell a tree by its fruit. None of those who cry out, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of God but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. When that day comes, many will plead with me, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? …’ Then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you. Out of my sight, you evildoers!’ Matthew 7:18-23 NAB Catholic Edition
I don’t want to come across as a sanctimonious fool as I got much to work on myself, but one thing I know is that there is nothing the Lord hates more than hypocracy. May I suggest you review The Golden Rule?
“I know your deeds; I know you are neither hot nor cold. How I wish you were one or the other – hot or cold! But because you are lukewarm, neither hot nor cold, I will spew you out of my mouth!” Rev 3:15-16
May God bless you, and may you bear good fruit for Him!
Kel,
“Oh, Mary, don’t you KNOW? When a woman enters a CPC, she is ‘vulnerable and emotional’ and clearly she cannot make her own decisions. When she enters an abortion clinic, she is ’empowered and clearheaded.’ It’s the most amazing thing. Quite the phenomenon, don’t you think?”
Lovely rejoinder, Kel.
Joan,
Had enough, or are you going to swallow the other foot as well?
“Each woman receives the same information on abortion and fetal development and a presentation of the Gospel, and they’re given the CHOICE to do with that information what they will”
So the CPC’s have a Christian orientation? Is it assumed, by the CPC’s, that their clients are all Christian? I did love the scene from “12th and Delaware” when the screaming CPC folks were trying to dissuade a poor, Hispanic woman from having an abortion. This woman, the mother of five or six kids, was clearly conflicted. Some woman from the CPC yelled that she would go to the bank and give all her money to this poor woman. As the documentary noted, when the poor woman changed her mind, all she got were some toys for her kids. Bait and switch? You betcha!
“His open arms on that crucifix hanging high above the altar are always welcoming us back to His fold”
So the only women having abortions are Christians? Reason I ask is that if they’re not, they really don’t care about the crucifix. And, actually, if they’re Protestant, they don’t do crucifixes – so I guess that only Catholic women have abortions?
“A former friend of mine got pregnant and went to PP with her boyfriend. She planned to keep the baby but didn’t tell PP that. She thought maybe they would help her get financial assistance…”
Why didn’t your friend tell PP that she planned on keeping the baby? Oh, I do love these poignant anti-choice anecdotes.
“Oh come on, aren’t we being a bit partronizing? I’ve never seen a woman’s “vulnerable emotional state” force her to sit in a CPC or return when she doesn’t want to.”
Oh, but wait. I thought that poor, black women were lured into PP and because of their vulnerability, they were victims of the siren song of PPFA!
“so I guess that only Catholic women have abortions?”
Or women naming themselves after the Greek goddess of childbirth, armed with turkey baster. Is that your crucifix, CC?
“Is that your crucifix, CC?”
You betcha!!!!! And it’s your business, how? Oh, bless me father Nadal….
Oh, BTW, Dr. Nadal. You were quoted, in a letter to the Providence Journal Bulletin as an expert regarding the link between abortion and breast cancer by the totally crazy failed candidate for Lt. Governor, Kara Russo who is engaged to the even crazier anti-abort Christopher Young who has run for lots of offices and gets no more than 1% of the votes – as well as having been escorted, by police, out of political debates. A female gynecologist then debunked everything Russo said. But I did have to chuckle. Love RI – Pro choice, pro-gay marriage (Episcopalian) governor. Two pro-choice senators. One pro-choice member of congress (and openly gay, too) out of two. And a pro-choice legislature. The Catholic bishop ain’t happy. But I sure am.
If you want to believe that, be my guest. Of course, it excludes probably about 98% of practicing Catholics, but hey, if you really want to think that only that 2% of hardcore believers are “real” Catholics, I really don’t care.
joan, you use the words ‘practicing Catholics’ in your above statement. I’m curious exactly what you mean by these words. Exactly what in your view is the difference between a practicing Catholic vs. a non-practicing one?
Oh and re the turkey baster. I don’t know if I terminated a blastocyst but I did have a two week period. I only wish abortion had been available and I could proudly say that I had an abortion and have no regrets. But after that, I went on the pill and everything was hunky dory and at the ripe old age of 62, all is well and here I am supporting women who don’t have to resort to turkey basters!!!
CC, I don’t know why my friend that miscarried didn’t tell PP she was keeping the baby. She just didn’t. She was/is pro-choice so its hardly an anti-choice anecdote.
Most CPC’s are run by Christians. I know at Birthright where I volunteer that we do NOT try to “save” people or push Christ on them. We meet the physical needs these women have at the moment. If they want to talk about spiritual things we certainly will but that is not our primary focus. The women that work there have a variety of different religious beliefs so there isn’t one religion we would be able to push anyhow. Birthright is non-political, non-religious. We just ask women “What do you need to have this baby?” and we get it for them. No matter what it is.
(Joan): Under normal circumstances, nothing, but in her vulnerable emotional state she could potentially be manipulated into taking a course of action that she otherwise had not intended and would not do; if what Gerard Nadal said is true, some CPC’s are banking on this being the case.
….Of course, the fact remains that abortion clinics are not evasive or misrepresentative about advertising the services they perform. CPC’s are. That’s the root problem here.
Joan, there indeed have been complaints about some CPC’s on those grounds.
http://www.fwhc.org/abortion/fake.htm
http://cpcwatch.org/documents/majorcomplaints2.pdf
Yet by the same token, wouldn’t you agree that some clinics that offer abortion/ some workers therein have also done things that all or almost all of us would agree are wrong?
I’ve seen the argument many times, and so much of it is generalizing about what “the other side” does. There will always be some people that have bad experiences, be it in a CPC or in a clinic where they offer abortion, and we always get the anecdotal stuff and generalizing from the particular.
(Kel): We didn’t sell these women anything. They came to the CPC of their own accord and left of their own accord.
Kel, I do believe you. You’re quite a level-headed person and a great poster.
CC 5:31PM
Its abortion advocates who incessently whine that entering a CPC renders a woman completely helpless. So, is a black woman entering PP equally helpless?
We have seen on undercover video that a PP employee would be willing to accept a racially motivated donation for the abortion of a black baby and make certain it was used as directed by the “donor”.
Draw your own conclusions.
Hi Sydney M. 6:43PM
If Christians didn’t run CPCs then they would be accused of hypocrisy. If you’re going to condemn abortion then do something to help women facing crisis pregnancy. Uh..that’s what Christians are doing.
I was also involved with Birthright. Our affiliation was not religious, though women of faith certainly volunteered their time. We did not discuss religion with the client unless the client expressed a desire to do so. If religious counselling was desired, we had clergy who volunteered their services.
There will always be some people that have bad experiences, be it in a CPC or in a clinic where they offer abortion, and we always get the anecdotal stuff and generalizing from the particular.
Preborn children will never have a bad experience at a CPC.
Preborn children will have their first and last bad experience at an abortion clinic.
” But after that, I went on the pill and everything was hunky dory and at the ripe old age of 62, all is well and here I am supporting women who don’t have to resort to turkey basters!!!”
That’s wonderful, CC.
CC,
So the turkey baster is your crucifix: that which is the symbol of the defining salvific event of your life, the representation of the historical event whereby you were liberated from the chains that held you, kept you from becoming that which you were meant to be.
For Catholics and other Christians the Crucifix/Cross points to the event that destroyed sin and death, that opened salvation and liberation from sin.
Your turkey baster points to the day you destroyed your child and lost your humanity, as you’ve gloried in it ever since. Killing your child didn’t liberate you. It blinded you, but in your blindness it’s difficult to see. Career, money, power, material acquisition can never rise to the level of acceptable trade-off for killing your child.
Many find healing and wholeness after their abortions, and I wish that you would someday join them.
Get well soon.
Hi Sydney M. 2:58PM
How sad about your friend. I suppose one could accuse PP of luring her into their facility under false pretenses by not specifying that prenatal care and pregnancy complication care are not among the services they offer. After all, what is a woman to conclude when she sees “reproductive health services” in the Yellow Pages or on a sign? Exactly what was on the sign or in the phone book, or on the computer,and how was it worded?
I hope the NYC Council gets on the ball and makes certain that all abortion facilities very accurately post exactly what services they offer. Who knows how many more women will be lured into a facility under false pretenses as your friend was.
For these reasons, the NYC Council’s introduction late last year of a bill attacking its pregnancy care centers would appear particularly untimely, aside from the fact it is onerous and unconstitutional.
One would think that NYC Council would welcome anything that would help with the 60% rate of abortions among black women. But my guess is that instead of looking at this stat and feeling a sense of shock they will simply invite women and men to continue their promiscuous ways and encourage more contraceptive use as a solution. And the way to do that is to get them away from Pregnancy Centres and into abortion clinics where contraceptives are prescribed or given out, thus perpetuating the cycle.
The same sort of thing is being done in the UK which has a shocking annual rate now of 200,000 abortions. The solution proposed is yet more contraception.
@CC: you sound ridiculous and I think it’s sad that you might actually be thrilled that you killed one of your children. :(
Joan appears to have caught a catholic strain of the deadly white progressive education virus. This is always recognized by the absence of any comment on the terrible consequences of “reproductive choice” on the black population, black fatherhood, black families. Choice dogs don’t bark at the 60% intruder. This is an awful number — the City Council knows it, NARAL knows it, Planned Parenthood knows it — do I hear any barking?