Jivin J’s Life Links 1-20-11
by JivinJ, host of the blog, JivinJehoshaphat
- Blogger P.Z. Myers shows a high degree of thoughtlessness (even more than usual) when he writes that he doesn’t think abortionist Kermit Gosnell should be charged with murdering the infants who survived abortion attempts. He’s scared it might open the door to charging other abortionists who perform late-term abortions:
He has also been charged with the murders of seven babies, and there I have to disagree. There has to be a difference in degree, or the mothers of those infants would also have to be charged as collaborators (they were all willing volunteers for this medical procedure, and they knew the result would be termination of their pregnancy). They haven’t, and they shouldn’t.
- The Philadelphia Inquirer reports on abortionist Kermit Gosnell’s grand jury report. Gosnell killed “hundreds” of babies and at least 2 women during abortions from 1979 to last year at his Women’s Medical Society at 38th Street and Lancaster Avenue, according to the grand jury. Further, he and his unlicensed, unskilled staff overdosed patients with drugs, perforated their wombs and bowels, and spread venereal disease by using unsterilized equipment, the report said…. Williams said he might seek the death penalty for Gosnell in the murders of 7 babies born alive and then killed.
“My comprehension of the English language doesn’t and cannot adequately describe the barbaric nature of Dr. Gosnell and the ghoulish manner in which he ‘trained’ the unlicensed, uneducated individuals who worked there,” [District Attorney Seth] Williams said.
They also have a video of the press conference announcing the charges , a report about the inside of the abortion clinic, and and the thoughts of an ex-patient.
- The Wall Street Journal’s James Taranto cites abortion as the reason for deranged hatred of Sarah Palin:
To the extent that “feminism” remains controversial, it is because of the position it takes on abortion: not just that a woman should have the “right to choose,” but that this is a matter over which reasonable people cannot disagree – that to favor any limitations on the right to abortion, or even to acknowledge that abortion is morally problematic, is to deny the basic dignity of women.
To a woman who has internalized this point of view, Sarah Palin’s opposition to abortion rights is a personal affront, and a deep one. It doesn’t help that Palin lives by her beliefs. To the contrary, it intensifies the offense.
- Republicans have designated the “No Taxpayer Funding for Abortion Act” as H.R. 3:
The first bill, the No Taxpayer Funding for Abortion Act, seeks to establish a permanent, government-wide prohibition on federal subsidies for abortion and for healthcare plans that cover abortion. It would make permanent the so-called Hyde Amendment, which restricts federal funding but must currently be reintroduced every year.
- Firestorm ahead: Rick Santorum is discussing Barack Obama’s race and abortion:
“The question is – and this is what Barack Obama didn’t want to answer – is that human life a person under the Constitution? And Barack Obama says no,” Santorum said in the interview, which was posted online Wednesday. “Well if that person, human life is not a person, then, I find it almost remarkable for a black man to say, ‘we are going to decide who are people and who are not people.'”

- Much noise is being made about the “horrific” killings, but late term abortions, even the ones done in clean, properly maintained facilities with well-trained personnel, are always necessarily bloody and unpleasant affairs, like most surgeries. The important word there is “necessary”. Late term abortions should be carried out when it is essential for the life and health of the woman, who is the most important participant in these circumstances, and opening the door to accusing doctors who perform necessary operations as murder is a dangerous precedent.
[Myers photo via theblackcordelias.wordpress.com; Palin photo via thesarahreport.com]

P.Z. Myers needs to see the pictures of those precious babies. He needs to see the picture of the baby with the open wound in the back of his neck from the scissors which that MONSTER murdered him with. THEN tell us he shouldn’t be charged!
He’s scared it might open the door to charging other abortionists who perform late-term abortions??? Let’s HOPE so!
Late term abortions should be carried out when it is essential for the life and health of the woman, who is the most important participant in these circumstances, and opening the door to accusing doctors who perform necessary operations as murder is a dangerous precedent.
Is P.Z. Myers a medical professional? What expertise does he have regarding obstetrics and gynecology and late-term abortions? How does he KNOW what he says is true?
I understand that ANY medical care a pregnant mother may need is available in a regular hospital setting. An abortionist working in a setting by himself is not practicing medicine. Think about it.
Two thoughts on the above:
– When it comes to late term abortions, I think it becomes an easy cop out to claim the “life of the mother” but not discuss late term abortions in general. By focusing on the massively few and far between scenario, I think he (pro-choice folks) are dodging the issue and hiding behind faulty logic.
– I think the Palin characterization is 100% wrong. I know a ton of people who can’t stand Sarah Palin, and abortion views has never been a reason stated.
Ex-GOP,
What Myers incorrectly characterizes as “late-term abortions” were actually abortions that were botched by Gosnell. Botched abortion means that BORN-ALIVE babies were killed with scissors OUTSIDE OF the womb. As far as Meyers goes, I don’t think he’s interested in listening to logical arguments on abortion. (He’s a moral relativist to the nth degree.)
I don’t know a ton of people who hate Sarah, but then it’s not really a topic of conversation in my daily life….. Do you know a ton who like her too? I think people who hate her tend to be hateful people. They probably hate everything that is good in the world, like babies, and puppies, and rainbows and……
Janet –
I know two types of people in the world these days:
– People who hate Palin, like puppies, hate Bush, and dislike rainbows.
– People who hate Obama, like cats, hate Clinton, and really dislike rainbows.
The only thing we all agree on is that rainbows are overrated. :-)
Seriously though – I’m mid-30’s at a company with a ton of people aged 25-40. Hard to find people like like Palin in that age group. They are out there – just out-numbered.
I find it interesting that the mother is automatically “the most important participant” in an abortion. What precisely qualifies the mother as more important than the baby? Particularly, after the baby is no longer within the confines of the uterus?
Am I a more Important part of my family than my son because I can clearly communicate whereas he struggles? Or because I have a more developed brain? Or because I have been through puberty?
Good questions, Mary Rose. I wonder if he gives the child’s father any rights in the abortion decision. (Probably not.)
I have an atheist friend (I’m Catholic) who directed me to PZ Myers blog a few years ago. That man is a confirmed bigot and the blog he runs contains some of the most vicious and vile attacks on Christianity. I was called some of the nastiest things. When they realized I could answer their strawman arguments and could defend my faith, they got even nastier! You can actually feel sick after witnessing the anger and hate on his blog. It’s so sad and depressing.
I used to tell Christians that if you think you know your faith, go defend it on PZ Myers site. I no longer suggest people do this simply because if the extreme level of ugliness over there.
Janet,
They only get a “choice” if it is the “choice” to support abortion.
If a father questions the mother’s decision to kill her baby, he is being oppressive. After all, he isn’t the “incubator” and therefore his attempts to save a life can only indicate that he sees the mother as a “baby making machine.”
I always find it so ironic that a “man” who uses women as sexual objects and pays for their abortions is empowering women, whereas a man who takes responsibility for the resulting child is seen as exerting some sort of “ownership” over the mother.
“Late term abortions should be carried out when it is essential for the life and health of the woman…”
Why stop there, P.Z. Meyers? If there’s nothing wrong with late-term abortion, why restrict it? I wonder if he realizes the inconsistency of his own position.
The term “hatemonger” gets thrown around quite a bit, but it’s the perfect way to describe PZ Myers. A few years ago, he convinced one of his followers to steal the Eucharist from a Catholic Church so that he could abuse it. Myers argued that it wasn’t really theft since the priest gave it away during Communion, but if you don’t do with that Eucharist what the priest expects you to do – ie, eat it – then you are in fact stealing it from the church. You have obtained it under false pretenses for the purpose of committing what amounts to a hate crime. Myers took the Eucharist, stuck a nail through it, and threw it in the trash. He then claimed that he committed this act of pure hate against Catholics in order to “prove” that the Eucharist wasn’t real. How sad and pathetic that a man would attack the Sacrament of Thanksgiving in order to show his contempt for God.
That said, I wouldn’t take anything that PZ Myers says seriously. The man is completely consumed by hatred. All you can do is pray that the grip Satan has on his heart is eventually loosened.
As for the hatred of Sarah Palin, most political people who hate her do so because of her pro-life stance. That’s just the truth. But then there are non-political people who hate her as well, but since they are non-political, it’s for a different reason. These people hate her because of how she is presented in the media – the mainstream media makes Palin out to be a vicious, monstrous, idiotic, lunatic woman who only cares about herself and her own ambitions and is a religious zealot. Why does the media present her as thus? Because of her pro-life stance. Pro-lifers need to be destroyed by any means necessary; especially young, attractive, female pro-lifers who have “walked the walk” of being pro-life in raising a special needs child. So it ultimately does come back to the reality that Sarah Palin is hated because she is pro-life (and to a lesser extent, because she is generally conservative), whether people realize it or not.
PZ Myers, for all his self-aggrandizement, can’t even present the appearance of a logical argument. Apparently, an unborn child is capable of ‘enslaving’ its mother, simply because it is sustained by her healthy, natural bodily functions. Despite being capable of enslaving others, however, these unborn children still are not people themselves.
John, I don’t like Sarah Palin, and it’s not because she’s pro-life. (Obviously, I’m pro-life myself.) I don’t like Sarah Palin because I disagree with many of her other views. If I were basing my opinion on the media portrayal of her, I’d think she was stupid, but I don’t think she’s stupid: in fact, I tend to think she’s rather shrewd. I still don’t like her. If she were the only pro-life candidate for president, I still wouldn’t vote for her. I hope to see a competent candidate receive the Republican nomination, and for Palin to fade into obscurity and irrelevance.
When the Allied Forces invaded Germany and forced it’s surrender, the troops discovered the concentration camps. When General Eisenhower was informed and witnessed the ‘handiwork’ of the NAZI’s he forced the German citizens who lived near the death camps to walk thru them and see the babarity with their own eyes and smell the stench of death with their own nostrils so that they could not ever honestly say, “It did not happen” or “I did not know.”
I believe it would be beneficial to take the corpse of one of Gosnell’s victims and use it to beat some sense into equivocating wimps like PZ Meyers. The effort would probably be wasted on Meyers. PZ’s head is buried so deep where the sun never shines he would probably remain as willfully and blissfully ignorant as he is now,[but it would be theapeutic for me.]
When a farmer had a dog that killed one of his chickens, and if the farmer liked the dog, he would tie a dead chicken around the dog’s neck as an ‘aversion therapy’ to break the dog from killing chickens. Some dogs could not learn and the farmers next resort was the ‘2 cent solution’, a .22 round between the eyes. The farmers had a 100 percent success rate with that method.[and the chickens were at peace.] If the farmer did not care for the dog, the ‘2 cent solution’ was the first resort.
If Gosnell is convicted of murder and receives the death penalty, I will volunteer to administer the ‘2 cent solution’. I don’t like Gosnell. No need to bother with the ‘dead chicken around the neck’.
It would the best 2 cents I have ever spent.
Adds new meaning to ‘giving my 2 cents worth’.
What Meyers and Gosnell incorrectly characterize as non or sub human are actually prenatal children, fellow members of the human race, worthy of respect and protection from rogues like them.
They strain at the gnat and swallow the camel.
It is difficult to discover words in the known languages of the world to describe people like them.
That said, I wouldn’t take anything that PZ Myers says seriously. The man is completely consumed by hatred. All you can do is pray that the grip Satan has on his heart is eventually loosened.
Yes, he does seem to be a pretty miserable individual.
As for Palin, it seems that most other African Americans really hate her. I’m not crazy about her, but hate is kind of a strong word. I don’t, however, think that she is qualified to be president.
yor bro ken said: “What Meyers and Gosnell incorrectly characterize as non or sub human are actually prenatal children, fellow members of the human race, worthy of respect and protection from rogues like them.”
Yeah, I was really struck by comments on Myers’s blog that proclaimed that the unborn are human life, but only in the sense that skin and hair that you slough off every day is also human life, and an arm that gets amputated is also human life.
Are they actually aware of where babies come from? Do they imagine that when a woman is pregnant with a baby boy, she has a penis? Or a woman having a girl has two uteruses and four ovaries? Do they not realize that this “product of conception” is a separate human individual, not a mere extension of the mother that sort of buds off after a while? For people who pretend to be devoted to scientific knowledge, they certainly like to flaunt a hideous ignorance of it.
Please keep in mind that some of your brothers and sisters in the fight against abortion are also against the death penalty. Also, talk of shooting an abortionist (even this one) is in poor taste. Go make better use of your time and get some baby supplies for a mother in need!
No violence – to anyone – born and unborn. Pro-Life means regarding all life as having dignity. Violence is no solution, even in jest.
the solution is loving, peaceful prayer and outreach.
There is enough love to go around, and even the impossible can happen with God’s help. Recall Abby Johnson, Bernard Nathanson, Norma McCorvy and Sandra Cano and other former supporters/abortionists/abortion clinic workers etc. who changed their minds on abortion, and had a changed heart as well.
He can do great work if we let Him.
I know plenty of nice atheists who are disgusted by abortion and think it is egregiously immoral. That said, many would also agree that folks like PZ Meyers are really closet racists who support abortion as practiced in the US because it disproportionally affects minorities.
I am sorry, but this man should get the death penalty by the same hideous method he used to murder these innocent babies.
PZ Meyers is obviously lost. If these women’s lives were in danger, I hightly doubt they would choose to go to a crappy squaler clinic to be induced and shoved into some horrible closet to spend the night by themselves unmonitored.
Although murder in the womb as just as grusome as outside the womb. I highly doubt as PZ Meyer would like to suggest us to believe that any of these women would be charged as collaborators if this procedure were explained to them.
“well, first we will deliver your live baby and then I will joke around with it for awhile and then make fun of it. Then when we will cut into your babies neck and cut through the spinal cord with a scissors. I may decide to cut your babies feet off and keep them in a jar.”
“Here. sign this informed consent form on the dotted line”
“No violence – to anyone – born and unborn. Pro-Life means regarding all life as having dignity. Violence is no solution, even in jest.
the solution is loving, peaceful prayer and outreach.”
To all my fellow commenters who want to be sweeter than Jesus.
The Prince of Peace is not a pacifist.
Matt 10:34 Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. AMP
Luke 22:36-38 36 Then He [Jesus] said to them, But now let him who has a purse take it, and also [his provision] bag; and let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy a sword. 37 For I tell you that this Scripture must yet be fulfilled in Me: And He was counted and classed among the wicked (the outlaws, the criminals); for what is written about Me has its fulfillment [has reached its end and is finally settled]. [Isa 53:12.]
[The ‘sword control’ crowd then, like the ‘gun control’ crowd of today, not only attempts to demonize the weapon, but any who would own one.]
38 And they said, Look, Lord! Here are two swords. And He said to them, It is enough. AMP
[The sword control crowd would say even one is too many.]
Matt 18:5-6 5 And whoever receives and accepts and welcomes one little child like this for My sake and in My name receives and accepts and welcomes Me. 6 But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in and acknowledge and cleave to Me to stumble and sin [that is, who entices him or hinders him in right conduct or thought], it would be better ( more expedient and profitable or advantageous) for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be sunk in the depth of the sea. AMP
Mark 9:42And whoever causes one of these little ones (these believers) who acknowledge and cleave to Me to stumble and sin, it would be better (more profitable and wholesome) for him if a [huge] millstone were hung about his neck, and he were thrown into the sea.
Luke 17:1-2 AND [Jesus] said to His disciples, Temptations (snares, traps set to entice to sin) are sure to come, but woe to him by or through whom they come! 2 It would be more profitable for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were hurled into the sea than that he should cause to sin or be a snare to one of these little ones [lowly in rank or influence].
Does having millstone tied around your neck, and then being thrown into the ‘depth of the sea’ sound like an exercise that is likely to conclude in your remaining in the land of the living?
Does “No violence – to anyone – born and unborn. Pro-Life means regarding all life as having dignity. Violence is no solution, even in jest.’ in any way comport with what Jesus was recommending?
Matt 21:12-13 12 And Jesus went into the temple ( whole temple enclosure) and drove out all who bought and sold in the sacred place, and He turned over the four-footed tables of the money changers and the chairs of those who sold doves. 13 He said to them, The Scripture says, My house shall be called a house of prayer; but you have made it a den of robbers. [Isa 56:7; Jer 7:11.] AMP
Mark 11:15-17 15 And they came to Jerusalem. And He went into the temple [area, the porches and courts] and began to drive out those who sold and bought in the temple area, and He overturned the [four-footed] tables of the money changers and the seats of those who dealt in doves; 16 And He would not permit anyone to carry any household equipment through the temple enclosure [thus making the temple area a short-cut traffic lane]. 17 And He taught and said to them, Is it not written, My house shall be called a house of prayer for all the nations? But you have turned it into a den of robbers. [Isa 56:7; Jer 7:11.] AMP
John 2:13-17 13 Now the Passover of the Jews was approaching, so Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14 There He found in the temple [enclosure] those who were selling oxen and sheep and doves, and the money changers sitting there [also at their stands]. 15 And having made a lash (a whip) of cords, He drove them all out of the temple [enclosure] — both the sheep and the oxen — spilling and scattering the brokers’ money and upsetting and tossing around their trays (their stands). 16 Then to those who sold the doves He said, Take these things away (out of here)! Make not My Father’s house a house of merchandise (a marketplace, a sales shop)! [Ps 93:5.] 17 And His disciples remembered that it is written [in the Holy Scriptures], Zeal (the fervor of love) for Your house will eat Me up. [I will be consumed with jealousy for the honor of Your house.] [Ps 69:9.] AMP
A little background is in order to more fully understand this passage.
It is written, Jesus ‘made a lash from cords’.
Have any of you ever seen a mother carefully and lovingly braid her daughters hair. It takes time.
Jesus took the time to methodically gather and braid individual cords into a whip/lash/weapon.
One would think by the time a Jesus the ‘pacifist’ had completed the braiding his anger would have passed and he would simply speak to the money changers in a soothing loving language and solely by the power of persuasion would change their hearts and they would then leave the the outer courts of the temple of their own free will, because, LORD only knows how often we have been told over and over and over again and again: ‘God will not violate our will.’
But nooooooooo.
Jesus took the time to braid those idividual cords into a whip.
The Prince of Peace not only used some strong and direct words to confront the wickedness of these merchants HE whupped some buttocks that day.
Jesus is not anti-business.
HE was a carpenter and the son of carpenter. HE was the first Full Gospel Businessman.
The other bit of background of which most folks are unaware.
The area of the temple where these money changers set up their shop was the sole area in the whole temple reserved for converted gentiles and women.
Jesus was not concerned about a religious edifice. His concern was for the body of Christ, the one new man, who is neither Jew nor gentile, free or slave, male or female.
Jesus would soon make a way, where there had been no way for all who loved the LORD to worship in Spirit and in Truth.
If you believe Jesus was primarily concerned for the temple, then show me where it is today. It had already been desecrated and destoyed once and in 70 AD the second destruction would be so complete the site would be turned into a plowed field.
But I digress.
I do believe as sons of God we should be friendly because GOD’s natural state is ‘friendly’ and ‘friendliness is next to Godliness’. [Cleanliness is a ways down list.]
We should not return evil for evil, but should pray for and bless those who curse us, persecute us and spitefully use us. But this is more for our benefit than for theirs.
But I also believe it is short sighted, naive, unrealistic and immature, as sons of GOD, to believe there is never a time when we should not use strong language and even physical violence in the defence of others.
I remember once a sports info babe was interviewing an NBA star who had a reputation for being physical on the court. The reporterette challenged the hoopster to reconcile his aggresive play with his well known christianity.
He replied, “What makes you think GOD prefers wimps?”
“No violence – to anyone – born and unborn. Pro-Life means regarding all life as having dignity. Violence is no solution, even in jest.
the solution is loving, peaceful prayer and outreach.”
In this nation alone we have now murdered, killed, eliminated, executed, exterminated, anihilated, wacked, capped,etc, more than 50 million pre-natal children.
In the words of Doctor Phil, ”How’s that working out for you?”
How’s that working out for the 50 million dead children and those who’s lives are in the balance today, tomorrow and for the next 40 years?
Give me some indication in the light of the most recent revelations concerning Kermit Gosnell and his crimes against humanity, that there is any reason to believe that ‘loving, peaceful, prayer’ has been effective at stemming the tide.
Five hundred thousand americans died in the Civil War.
D. L. Moody speculated at the time that for every African who died in slavery in America, an american died in the War between the states.
Barring a divine intervention of mercy grace and forgiveness, our children, our children’s children and our children’s children’s children will pay with their lives for our inaction, apathy and cowardice.
The day of reckoning will come. The scales of justice will be balanced or GOD is mocked or a liar.
I am not advocating violence, but selfless sacrifice. In Jesus words, Laying down our lives for not just for one another, or even a friend, but a for stranger who will probably never even know who we are and what we did and the price we paid to save their life.
Now go tell that mother who’s children are at home and who’s house is on fire to sound a moderate alarm.
From the ‘birds of a feather stick together’ file:
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“Ex-GOP Voter says: January 20, 2011 at 6:41 pm
I know two types of people in the world these days:
– People who hate Palin, like puppies, hate Bush, and dislike rainbows.
– People who hate Obama, like cats, hate Clinton, and really dislike rainbows.
Seriously though – I’m mid-30?s at a company with a ton of people aged 25-40. Hard to find people like like Palin in that age group. They are out there – just out-numbered.”
=======================================================
Ex-RINO,
Me thinks your observations disclose more about you and the people with whom you choose to associate than Sarah Palin or the average 30’s something American.
I hope you don’t rely on this sort of relativistic, subective, mushy, sueezy goop to make any business decisions for yourself or for your employer.
We are in an uncertain economy and you got be payin’ attention if you want to stay in the game.
I’m not a fan of puppies. They’re cute and everything, but pretty needy. Cats are nice. Self sufficient for the most part. I don’t have an opinion about rainbows.
Ken – dangerous indeed. Jesus did what was needed – and he never advocated the killing of the innocent. Justice, yes – but a person should not take justice in his or her own hands as the person with the .45 remark made.
Ken – I was not advocating not having standards. I was not advocating a wimpy approach to abortion, I was not saying that God does not include in His actions His wrath. I am saying that a loving approach actually gets things done. even when someone is screaming in my face, or threatening me with violence. On one occasion, a young man approached me, full of rage. i thought for sure he was going to hit me. But God was generous, and the soft soothing words listening to his upset had him calm down.
I have held in my own hands children saved from the abortionist’s knife. Praise God. I have brought food, clothes, furniture, diapers, etc to those in need. We do our ministry with love, not with hate speech, not with slander, not with anger or outburst. with a calmed, rational and loving approach, even in the face of danger.
Our ministry is not for wimps. It’s for the strong in heart, the big in heart. As St. Francis deSales said – you catch more flies with honey instead of vinegar.
As a catechist, as a practicing orthodox Catholic, as a woman I understand sacrifice and I understand the teaching.
And, BTW, it is working for me, thank you for asking. It may not be instantaneous, it may not save every child, it won’t change everyone in the culture instantaneously – but God is faithful, God keeps his promises, and I trust Him. We will continue to work diligently, formally, helping others to learn what we do and energize the community to get involved.
On heart and one mind at a time. We know how the story ends. We are raising our voices, teaching, empowering, giving, praying and being totally active. We train, help and love big.
No moderate alarms here.
“We do our ministry with love, not with hate speech, not with slander, not with anger or outburst. with a calmed, rational and loving approach”
I promise Joy, I will calmly pull trigger of my .45 into an abortionist that cuts the spinal cords of innocent babies. There will be no anger, slander or hate speech, only justice.
oh Ken – If I needed to defend someone who was being hurt, I would. If I ended up sacrificing myself for this cause, I would. Would I support violence against another, even an abortionist, if it was not in self-defense or in defense of another? No, never.
And that soft-touch is what made it possible for Abby Johnson, Bernard Nathanson and others have a change of heart and a safe place to land.
And their witness is winning hearts and minds every day.
Maybe there is something to it. Not for wimps, not for cowards, not for those who don’t want to be involved.
Jasper – that is not for you to do – the meeting our of punishment is the State’s duty, not yours. You will harm the pro-life cause if you do, as the killer of Tiller did. There is no justice in that, just murder.
Should a murderer get justice? Absolutely. Should it be done by individuals? Absolutely not. The Nuremburg trials put facts and information on the record and still dealt out justice. when a lone person decides to get rid of someone, there is no justice – no going through the courts, no public comment and information.
The thou shalt not kill is definitely for individuals – for abortionists and the lone person trying to stop their abortions. It is not for us to do.
And isn’t that ‘private’ mindset that puts the babies in danger also? If anyone can decide who lives and dies – that is the crux of the abortion debate. Jasper – as much as you would want the abortionist to stop doing abortions, you can not end his life to have that done – you need to meet him in the courts, in the medial board meetings, in the community meetings when Planned Parenthood is trying to expand or come into a community.
Meeting the abortionist with a gun is just as destructive to human life as the abortionist with the suction machine. You are both killing. Please – don’t even entertain that thought, unless you want to be like ‘them.’
“Jasper – as much as you would want the abortionist to stop doing abortions, you can not end his life to have that done – you need to meet him in the courts”
We didn’t end slavery or Nazi concentraction camps in the court room, we ended it on the battlefield.
I sorry to say this, but it’s going to take a violent uprising to end abortion. A civil war.
Clarice, you said that if Sarah Palin were the ONLY pro-life candidate for president, you STILL wouldn’t vote for her. How can you make such an amazing statement and not explain it? What did the woman do to offend you that is so severe that you would rather a pro-abort get elected than her?
I don’t think she’s the best choice for president. Far from it. And I don’t agree with everything she says. But if I was voting in the General Election and my choice was between Sarah Palin and Barack Obama or some other pro-abort, you had better believe I would vote for Palin.
As for the argument that Palin is not qualified to be president, she was more qualified to be president in 2008 than Obama was in 2008. It’s absurd that whenever anyone pointed out how unqualified Obama was back then, it was chalked up to “racism”, which is pretty much the way all criticisms of Obama are defended against.
Jasper has reached the only conclusion that a rational human being can come to in the face of the mindless evil of continued abortion. This is an evil that has no regard for what the truth is, as every year science finds new ways to reveal that life begins at fertilization.
Pro-lifers really have no “choice” but to rely on God. It would take nothing short of the power of God to put an end to abortion without armed conflict.
Ken – two things – my very first comment on this thread was about how I thought PZ Myers makes a shallow argument. Of course, you can’t see past your labels you have on people, so you twisted it massively.
On Palin, her negative approval rating is through the roof – don’t be surprised that a bunch of people don’t like her.
Why are people so afraid of Sarah Palin?
John, I will not vote for Sarah Palin because she has views on certain life issues that I find problematic. And don’t bring up Trig and the fact that she didn’t abort him because, hey, I didn’t commit murder today, either.
“Pro-lifers really have no “choice” but to rely on God. It would take nothing short of the power of God to put an end to abortion without armed conflict.”
He’s doing it, John! Keep those prayers going because through witness and constant prayer we are winning this battle…one heart at a time!
Clarice, would you care to elaborate? If Sarah Palin has problematic views on life issues, I would surely like to know. They must be terribly problematic if they make her no better than a pro-abort in your eyes.
John, there are a lot of different views within the pro-life community on other issues, and I don’t want to upset anyone by dragging things to a different topic where others would disagree. Suffice it to say that I think there are a lot of views she has that are inconsistent with an authentic pro-life ethic. I appreciate her consistent stance on abortion, particularly the fact that she does not compromise on the rape/incest issue like so many other politicians do, but that’s about all I can appreciate about her in good conscience.
Very well, Clarice. If I may ask you one more question - which known anti-abortion politicians would you be willing to vote for for president, if any?
John: What I really want is a president who will pursue social justice relentlessly. Frankly, I don’t know anybody like that outside a hagiography.
Mostly, I just analyze candidates as they come around the bend. I don’t mind Reince Priebus for the time being, although that could change.
Clarice, OK, it all makes sense now. At least, it made perfect sense to me before the part about the new RNC Chairman. But I’ll figure it out.
John: You sounded like you wanted a specific name; I gave you the only person I could think of in politics who is pro-life and hasn’t done something I consider reprehensible.
joyfromillinois says: January 21, 2011 at 8:23 pm
“oh Ken – If I needed to defend someone who was being hurt, I would. If I ended up sacrificing myself for this cause, I would. Would I support violence against another, even an abortionist, if it was not in self-defense or in defense of another? No, never.
And that soft-touch is what made it possible for Abby Johnson, Bernard Nathanson and others have a change of heart and a safe place to land.”
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Joy,
may GOD continue to bless you and may HIS will proper in your hands.
You are a godly woman who would rather be wrong than see Jesus maligned by those who claim HIS name.
Would that I were more like you.
The point in my overstated post was that Jesus was fully human.
As it is written in Ecclesiastes there is a time and a season under the sun for everything.
No pro-lifer of whom I am aware has ever suggested that was NOT kind, loving, welcoming, forgiving, generous, hospitable, friendly, merciful,etc
But religion and a permissive society has robbed some us of a ‘right mind’.
When faced with the cruelties of a man like Gosnell surely one appropriate reaction/response is ‘anger’ at the gross injustice done to these innocents by man who has been enabled, emboldened, encouraged and protected by ‘government’.
I am fully aware that some people are not capable of violence because of their conscience, [I respect that.] but Jesus was/is not one of those people. The record is clear.
Jesus was fully human and as such was tempted by every sin that is common to humans and HE did not sin.
HE only did and said what the Father was saying and doing.
Therefore not only did HE not sin when chased those men out of the temple with a whip HE made HIMSELF, HE must have been doing what the Father was doing and saying what the Father was saying.
How else can Jesus’ actions being reconciled with HIS teachings?
We are made in HIS image, but we attempt to fashion HIM in ours.
Ex-GOP Voter says: January 21, 2011 at 9:22 pm
“Ken – two things – my very first comment on this thread was about how I thought PZ Myers makes a shallow argument. Of course, you can’t see past your labels you have on people, so you twisted it massively.
On Palin, her negative approval rating is through the roof – don’t be surprised that a bunch of people don’t like her.”
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Ex-RINO,
heres what you wrote which had nothing to do with your first post.
“I know two types of people in the world these days:
– People who hate Palin, like puppies, hate Bush, and dislike rainbows.
– People who hate Obama, like cats, hate Clinton, and really dislike rainbows.
Seriously though – I’m mid-30?s at a company with a ton of people aged 25-40. Hard to find people like like Palin in that age group. They are out there – just out-numbered.”
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I was not defending Palin, Bush, puppies, cats or rainbows.
I was merely poining out the kind of 30 something people you hang with are not an accurate reflection of society as whole, but more a commentary on who you are and with whom you associate.
You make take that observation any way you wish.
Clarice, it’s crystal-clear now. You’re looking for a perfect (or at least passable) candidate by your standards. I suspect you write in “Mickey Mouse” a lot when you go to vote.
Ken – thanks for the clarification.
I’m guessing most of the people you hang around with hate Obama, as you do. So don’t get too high and mighty about yourself.
It is pretty obvious from my statement that tongue was firmly planted in cheek. I don’t hate the lady – I just think she would make an awful President, and it has nothing to do with her pro-life views – which was my first overall statement on this thread.
John, I wouldn’t vote for Mickey Mouse: he’s a dang pro-abort!
So, Jill, you have two commenters on this column who are advocating killing people with guns (one advocating killing the PA abortion doctor; the other advocating killing any abortion doctor who slices spinal cords).
Are you enforcing the commenting rules of your blog, deleting those posts, banning those people and reporting them to the proper authorities? Or aren’t you doing so? And if not, why not.