Left-wing Catholic not exactly a fan of Rick Santorum
But it’s a political delusion to think Rick Santorum is a standard-bearer of authentic Catholic values in politics. In fact, on several issues central to Catholic social teaching – torture, war, immigration, climate change, the widening gap between rich and poor and workers’ rights – Santorum is radically out of step with his faith’s teachings as articulated by Catholic bishops and several popes over the centuries.
~ John Gehring, Catholic Outreach Coordinator for Faith In Public Life, a “progressive faith” publication, attempting to make a Catholic case against Republican presidential candidate Rick Santorum (pictured with family above), January 4
[HT: Lisa Graas]
Actually he’s right to a degree. Santorum is pro-torture which is an intrinsic evil according to Catholic teaching & is why I won’t vote fir him.
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a left wing catholic? wonder if they are pro abortion. like the bumper sticker… you cant be pro choice and catholic. i suggest anyone who is pro abortion stop taking the christian label as you cannot serve 2 masters.
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Rick is Pro Life! 100%
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Climate change is an issue central to Catholic social teaching as articulated by Catholic bishops and several popes over the centuries?
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Rick Santorum has spoken out strongly against torture and is fully in line with what the Catholic Church teaches on this issue. Please, Pansy Moss, do not distort his record.
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Climate change is the gospel of the left. The Catholic Church does not have a teaching on it.
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Umm…the only thing in the Bible I can think of pertaining to climate change would be this:
Matthew 7:15
King James Version (KJV)
15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
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No teaching about climate change exactly, but the Church does teach that we are stewards of the earth and need to take care of it.
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http://www.patheos.com/blogs/markshea/2012/01/scott-p-richert-on-rick-santorum.html
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John Gehring is out of step with Catholic teaching, not Rick Santorum.
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http://disputations.blogspot.com/2011/05/what-hell-is-matter-with-republican.html
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If any torture saved my brother and brought him home from 2 tours in Afghanistan and Iraq, not to mention time in Korea, Bosnia and Qatar, then I’m all for it.
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Good stewardship of the earth may mean staving off the next cycle of global cooling, which historically has caused more deaths than global warming. By some estimates, the Maunder Minimum and associated Little Ice Age (~1300 – 1850) resulted in millions of death around the world primarily due to decreased growing seasons.
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Courtnay, having served in Kuwait, Korea, Iraq, and Kosovo, I am in total agreement with you. God bless y
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our brother’s service.
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Pansy,
Went to your link. Mark Shea has nothing of substance. It is a rant blog with many words and few facts. Here is something for you to think about. When those in positions of leadership and authority fail to exert their authority when required, disaster ensues. e.g. King David and the rape of Tamar [which Absalom avenged], failure to be out defending his country in the spring [when kings went to war] and the following affair with Bathsheba, and finally the rebellion of Absalom. He should have done what was right in the first place and lowered the boom on Amnon in the first place and he should have been out doing what he was supposed to do as king instead of standing on the roof and surveying the city.
Whether or not we should have invaded Iraq, there is certainly plenty of room for question. Whether or not good came of it may also certainly be debatable [though I have a couple of relatives who were there and say indeed good did come of it]. Though tortue in war is not acceptable, what you are refering to does not rise to the same level as taking of the most innocent life. As the President, Rick Santorum would need to excersize authority in the defence of our country and in the defense of the innocent. What he has said and what he did while a senator have been consistant to that end. As an added note, I do not agree with waterboarding but do not know of anyone who died from it.
David
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Oops. I now have to apologize to Mark Shea. The site blogger is Scott R.
Scott is the word rich blogger. Still, I stand by the rest of my statement. This is a lesson to me to edit before I hit enter.
Mark, who I thought I had heard before, was only commenting.
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Not sure why folks are still talking Santorum…give it about two-three more weeks, and he’ll be a thing of the past.
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Yet another example of preferring an anti-choice mugabe to a pro-choice mandela. There are a great many important things other than just abortion. How about a world which has peace and socio-economic and environmental climates which are safe to have children in.
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Pansy Moss,
an apt name (Pansy). Stop spouting the stupid torture nonsense you stinkin lousy liar.
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Pansy is linking to far left wing websites. There are moonbat catholics out there distorting the faith.
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Reality – I’ve often said that there are pro-life people and pro-birth people – those who want all children to have the chance of birth, but they are fully on their own after that (poor health care, educational opportunities, environmental standards, etc…)
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What, like them thar states what push fer ‘personhood amendments’ Ex?
The ones with pathetic teen pregnancy, state execution, education, health and welfare stats?
Themz’d be the ‘pro-birth’ ones?
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The statements by this author are unbelievable.
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abortion is the ultimate torture. Rick is against torture of inncoent preborn children.
this man that hates Santorum is a CINO.
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Are the folks that are so against this author saying that torture, war – these things are fine? I mean, I see people mad at this author – but what’s the logical basis of the argument here?
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I like Santorum. Ex-RINO and Reality are against him so he must be the real deal.
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I’m actually against all the GOP candidates truthseeker, just some even more than others, so who are you going to support now???
But I’m more than happy to encourage you to support santorum and sing his praises, because the majority of voters won’t have a bar of him.
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Waterboarding… I find it interesting that many people would protect their lives and property, by possibly taking a life of an intruder that came into their home, but are against waterboarding someone that only makes them THINK they are going to die. You can’t have it both ways.
I’m a Christian, and I couldn’t possibly waterboard someone, but that doesn’t mean that in the most dire circumstances, it might not be something that became necessary in order to protect our country if I was serving in the military. And even so, we put guns in the hands of our military, not waterboards. I think a lot of people here are trying to find Christ instead of a Christian for President. We need to remember that ultimately our Kingdom is not of this world, and in the meantime, we choose the candidate that best reflects, not perfectly reflects, the principles, values, and character of our Lord. He or She may not be perfect, but are they being true and honest despite a few areas in which we may disagree.
Above all, pray for our country, pray for our leaders, and honor and serve the Lord so that the change in our highest form of government starts with us.
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Had to pay Gehring a visit and leave a comment with him.
I started to compare the guy with prostitutes but then realized that it was an unwarranted insult to the sex workers.
Here’s why: Sex workers are merely selling themselves out.
Gehring is selling out others in an attempt to have their resources redistributed according to his personal interests, and gain.
I see Gehring as a version of George Soros, betraying his own people.
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truth -
I haven’t given much thought to Santorum. He’s a massive long shot of being the candidate…I’ll play attention in a few weeks if he’s still in it.
My question was thrown out because I’m not catholic – so I’m not sure how all these various catholic teachings work and if some can be simply set aside if a person likes a candidate.
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Ex-RINO,
Jesus teaches us to place our trust in him and not strike back. Wefall short of Jesus teachings by justifying torture and killing in the name of self defense. It really has little to do with ‘setting teachings aside cause we like a candidate’.
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I agree truth – my point is, it seems like some on this board are in shock and horror of what this guy said – and it seems to me that he has a legit point. Sure Santorum is in a good place (in regards to Catholic teachings) with some of his views, but is somebody evil for saying Santorum doesn’t get straight A’s? A little odd to see the response…though again, I’m not a Catholic – so I don’t understand all those special rules and such.
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Glad you agree. But you still don’t seem to understand it really has nothing to do with special rules. It has to do with weakness in following Christs teachings.
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This article mischaracterized and spun Santorum’s position on each of the issues:
Immigration
The article insinuated that Senator Santorum is for breaking up families because they argue, he is for “massive” deportation. This is completely false. He is not for breaking up families and is not for deportation that does this.
Mr. Santorum emphasizes that our immigration policy should honor those who play the rules, not those who break the rules.
Poverty, Inequality, and Financial Regulation
The article misstates and sloppily summarizes the Church’s teaching to “support a just redistribution of wealth.” Although the Church has genuine concern for the poor the Church also understands the importance of a free market system. The Church does not support socialism.
The document referred to the article released by the Pontifical Council of Justice and peace is not the Church’s official position on financial regulation and ethics. It is more akin to a research paper.
The article states that believing regulation caused the financial industry is a thoroughly debunked lie. Again, this is simply not true. It was government policies instituted by the Democrats under Bill Clinton that caused the financial crises of 2008.
Pope Benedict wants more non-profit organizations to disclose their true nature and objectives so that people can understand more clearly where their donations are being spent. In short, the Pope doesn’t want to see Catholics giving money to NPOs that promote activities that are contrary to Church teaching.
The article failed to fully explain and state Senator Santorum’s comments on suffering. Mr. Santorum stated that people suffer in all kinds of ways. People suffer through tangible ways such as food, clothing and shelter and through intangible ways such as a lack of hope and dignity. The article made it appear that Senator Santorum wanted to suffer by remaining in poverty, which is simply false.
Lastly, Mr. Santorum understood the phrase “preferential option for the poor” and provided excellent answers:
FPL [Faith in Public Life – the same organization that wrote the article being commented on]: Do you agree with the Catholic Church’s position that there should be a preferential option for the poor in public policy?
SANTORUM: I’m not too sure I understand what that term–preferential option for the poor in what respect?
FPL: In all areas of public policy the Church has said, in my understanding, that we should be considering the poor first–that there should be a preferential option.
SANTORUM: Should we be considering the poor with respect to our public policy, the answer is yes.
FPL: Do you think that includes immigrants?
SANTORUM: Including legal immigrants, yes.
Worker’s Rights
The article refers to Rerum Novarum which is an encyclical over 100 years old. At the time of the writing the Industrial revolution was in full swing and heinous child labor was at or near its peak. Support for worker’s rights as defined the Church were and are still justified. However, since Rerum Novarum the Church has issued other encyclicals on the issue of worker’s rights. One of the more recent encyclicals on the issue was Centesimus Annus. The encyclical shows that governments should not be instituting a form of socialistic government since socialism undermines the fundamental liberty of the same people it tries to help. This encyclical identifies some of the limits inherent to the nature of the State. Both Rerum Novarum and Centesimus Annus denounce socialism as way to correct economic inequalities. Both Rerum Novarum and Centesimus Annus discuss the value and importance of private poverty. They both remind us that “the individual, the family and society are prior to the State, and inasmuch as the State exists in order to protect their rights and not stifle them.”
Climate Change and the Environment
There has not been a clear statement by the Church on climate change. Indeed, the Church’s position is “if it is happen do something about it.” But the Church has never said that you must believe climate change is in fact occurring due to human activities.
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Tyler –
A couple of quick points:
– Santorum’s candidacy is going nowhere fast, so not worth talking about much…
– On immigration, you are making assumptions, unless he has made some quotes lately in regards to illegal immigration and how he would handle it.
– To say that it is simply a fact that the economic woes were because of policies put in place 10-20 years ago, and no lend any thought to the massive credit default swap industry – I think it is short-sighted and just plain ignorant.
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Ex_RINO,
Several years prior to the crisis the democrats stood as a block voting against oversight of the credit default swap industry. See for yourself
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM
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Does that make people who support the democRATS just plain ignorant too?
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Well, this is fun so far truth – I talk about regulations on the CREDIT DEFAULT SWAP industry, and you post on Freddie and Fannie.
Fail.
We’ll see what video two brings.
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Darn, there was only one video (in my email it looked like two).
So, truth – do you understand the difference between credit default swaps and GSEs? It looks like you don’t…
Two different things truth…two different things.
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I think Rick Santorum’s campaign is going to rebound in South Carolina.
I am not sure how Romney is going to fair after this scrutinizing of Bain Capital.
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Ex-GOP,
Do you know which industries, businesses and GSEs used credit default swaps and why?
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Tyler – this GOP cycle has been anything but predictable so far…but Santorum is going to need another big bump at this point.
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Truth – it is a way to leverage debt and try to mitigate risk – on mortgages, bonds, loans – a whole host of things.
A company has a lot of debt it wants to be paid on, so they buy insurance (or pay a premium) to protect that debt.
Unfortunately, where as most insurance is paid with money and has backing, these were unregulated swaps that were exchanged, resold, and didn’t have the financial backing of actual tangible assets…so they caused a nice little chain reaction.
This is why as the markets started to crumble, a lot of the hardest places were big banks – in a traditional regulated environment, you’d see proper ratios of assets to the liabilities – which didn’t exist here.
Make sense? Lots of good info out there on it – and again, any explanation of the financial crisis without at least mentioning credit default swaps – it’s missing too big of a piece of the puzzle.
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I seem to remember that Fannie and Freddy were using these CDSs!!!!
Why do you seem to leave this bit of the story out X-GOP?
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Tyler,
You’ll find ExRINO’s stories always leaves out the bits that don’t support his reality.
Ex-RINO,you said it yourself; trading amorized mortgage securities and credit default swaps are both problems because they are based on highly negative (toxic) asset-to-liability ratios. Wouldn’t that make people who support either of these things idiots?
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If Perry and Gingrich don’t do well in SC and they drop out then Santorum can count on another really big boost.
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tyler/truth – I never said fannie/freddie weren’t PART of the problem:
– To say that it is simply a fact that the economic woes were because of policies put in place 10-20 years ago, and no lend any thought to the massive credit default swap industry – I think it is short-sighted and just plain ignorant.
I never personally tried to paint the whole picture – I just said you can’t ignore that component of it and try to pin it on one thing.
Quite frankly, when times were good, a whole bunch of politicians looked the other way and enjoyed all the money and benefits of the situation. Fannie/Freddie were a problem, but they were a problem mostly because of how the bonds hit an unregulated market (which was not being called for to be regulated – at least by politicians).
Quite simply though – the whole market needs to be regulated – something GOPers still resist and fight.
Regardless – back to my original statement – any blame game can’t skip the CDS industry – and this goes WAY beyond a couple of GSEs.
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x-gop your analysis is missing the biggest point (and I am not entirely anti-regulation) which is that fannie and freddie are GSEs. Meaning they are governement “sponsored” entreprises. The fact the government was such a big player in this industry is, by itself, the most direct form of regulation!!! How can you overlook this fact????
X-GOP this is really not fair on your part or helpful to the American people. It was the failure of Government businesses that caused the financial problems.
Furthermore CDSs are not an industry, they are one form of a financial derivative. Please use the correct terminology.
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I am not sure I understand why the right put any stock in the Gallup and NBC polls about Romney being able to beat Obama. Has anyone vetted these polling companies? How can the right be so certain that these polls don’t have an agenda?
No offense to Romney, I find it hard to believe that Romney would be beat Obama. I am not sure what change would occur if Romney was elected versus Obama. If nothing will change with him as President why would the American Pulblic vote him in office over Obama? I think some on the Left want the right to think that Romney can win because they think it would be easy for Obama to beat Romney! I also find Romeny’s views on Life issues hard to follow. And yes I do recognize the discontent that the American Public have with Obama.
I think Newt and the other Candidates should all be more positive towards each other and focus on Obama, their common opponent.
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Tyler – I haven’t overlooked any fact. All I simply said was you can’t paint a picture without having CDSs in there. I never ever said that GSEs weren’t part of the problem. Never. I just said you couldn’t overlook that – so don’t get all huffy about what I’m leaving out. I didn’t paint the picture – you were the one with the bold declaration.
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Ex-RINO, you never did answer my question. Since the Democrats voted as a block to prevent oversight of GSE’s; wouldn’t that make people who support Democrats ignorant (idiots)?
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Link to the bill please – I would need to know what sort of oversight was included in the bill. If they want oversight in hiring for instance, that would do nothing – so I would need to know the details. Oversight can mean a lot of different things…
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Ex-RINO – in 2008 while running for president Obama was the second largest recipient of Fannie/Freddie political donations in senate history. In only four years as a senator he had received over $120,000; compared to John McCain’s $20,000 over the course of 20 years. Throughout the Bush presidency Democrats consistently blocked attempts to create a federal agency to perform oversight of Government Sponsored Enterprises. You would have to be either ignorant or an idiot to be unaware. What does it tell you about someone when they receive such enormous political contributions from Government Sponsored Enterprises?
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So are you saying you don’t have a link? Or is the oversight described in a cute little youtube video?
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Mr. Santorum appears to represent the Church’s effort to join in the culture war that is currenty taking place in the U.S. His strong showing in Iowa is indicative of how allignedhis politics are with the evangelical right wiing ot the Republican Party. This base is not strong enough that there need be concern of him ever getting the nomination. Albeit, that would be great for the Catholic left and the future of President Obama.
There was a time in our history when Judeo Christian herritage dominated American culture. Our culture has evolved and like it or the Constitution calls for the separation of Church and State. I see no problemwith maintaining one’s own beliefs without projecting them on to others. It appears to me that the greatest Christian principal would be to practive a politics of inclusion. With the Church’s shift to the right has come a politics of exclusion and it is no wonder droves of our youth are leaving the Catholic Church. In the ’70’s, themes the Church was more focused on dealing wiith issues of poverty and social justice. With the advent of contraception, a blind eye had been turned by some Priests as students flocked to Newman Center’s on college campuses after frolicking on Saturday nights with an inability to reconcile being a sinner like everyone else while promoting a greater and deeper love for all of humanity. Hopefully, the pendulum wiill swing back or Mr. Santorum will find himself at Mass with a few of his overly judmental anc condemning peers.
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