Mothers using parenthood as a defense against abortion stigma
A few months ago, I was late. …[M]y NuvaRing had failed me. I’m married, happily at that. And I’m a mother, happily as well. But our family feels “complete,” as demographers put it, at one child….
As we lay awake at night whispering pros and cons for continuing the pregnancy… I wondered if our mere deliberating might call into question my soundness as a mother….
Is the stigma that attaches to abortion actually compounded if one makes this choice as a mother? Are we right to think that terminating a pregnancy after carrying another one successfully to term will undermine our standing not just as women but as good parents?
At the University of California-San Francisco, Kate Cockrill directs the Social and Emotional Aspects of Abortion Program, and is trying to measure sources of stigma. She has found that many mothers deliberately explain their choice to abort in the context of their motherhood, thinking that doing so will ward off judgment.
“Motherhood is an assertion of their humanity,” Cockrill told me of women who fear condemnation, “and claiming their motherhood is part of managing the stigma of abortion.”
Still, Cockrill has found that once they have established social identities as mothers, many women will do everything they can to avoid tarnishing that identity. For example, she found women who had babies delivered by an OB-GYN refused to see that physician when they found themselves in an unwanted pregnancy.
“They wanted to be seen as a mother,” she said, “not an abortion patient.”
~ Lauren Sandler, Slate, October 17
[Photo via tressugar.com]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
i wanted to say this to the women who say abortion is safer then childbirth. it wasnt for the women in the cemetery of choice,many of them pictured with ther LIVE children that they BIRTHED.
my girlfriend who aborted 94 and then again in 95 went to a female gyn. she said that everything was going along just fine with the appointment until she told the doctor the circumstances leading to her abortions. she told me that the doctor became very quiet after that but she still performed the exam. after she finished she said to jan “id like you to find another obgyn.” “id rather not see you anymore.” bam! appt. over
not everyone is on the pro death bandwagon. why a shortage of providers. talked to many doctors and nurses in my life and said “abortion is murder” ha they say “well of course it is”!!!!!! duh!!!!! the only thing pro aborts want to do is make the baby unhuman so they can kill it. i know i know you guys are going to say “but there are pro choice doctors out there.” it doesnt mean a thing and they are just as bad as men and women who support baby killing in the womb!
It drives me crazy when abortion proponents point out that so-and-so percent of women who have abortions “are already mothers.” 100% of women who have abortions are already mothers!
and btw shame is an inside job. i dont feel ashamed to say i have 4 kids. however i believe i’d be ashamed to tell a doctor “ive had 4 abortions.” i found a website where women had abortions and they had repented. one woman asked the others “i dont think im going to tell my future gyns about my abortion.” “im tired of always having to put it on my paperwork.” “besides why do they have to ask anyway”?
I’ve read that one reason having a baby and placing it for adoption is such an unpopular choice is that women who have already have a born child feel it would be difficult to explain to the child that a brother or sister is being placed for adoption. OTOH, the born child doesn’t have to know about an early abortion.
As I’ve previously pointed out, placing for adoption might be more popular if it were possible to transplant an embryo or fetus from one womb to another. I support research into this and hope others do too.
Mothers generally believe that they love their children unconditionally. And, happily, most really do. But when a mother, who has already given birth, chooses to kill baby #2, what that says is that her love is not unconditional at all. It is conditional on how convenient the child is, the timing of conception, her feelings about the “completeness” of the family. On at least some subconscious level, they must realize this. THAT is why abortion is worse for women who have older children, and why they try desperately to affirm that they’re “good mothers.”
Stigma is another word for shame. The reason for shame? Because we’re doing something wrong. God gave us those internal cues for a reason.
Are we right to think that terminating a pregnancy after carrying another one successfully to term will undermine our standing not just as women but as good parents?
Hell yes you’re right to think that. In a supposed effort to be a “better” parent to the born child(ren), you’re a horrific parent to the unborn child!
and loving and killing doesnt go together. does not compute
Kelsey and Courtnay…. so well said!
One of my friends who aborted and always grieved over it also tried to justify why she did what she did. But when she became a mom (to a living child) she told me she could NEVER have another abortion now that she knew what pregnancy and childbirth and mothering were all about. That she would move heaven and earth (not her words but mine, but basically what she said) to have and take care of her children. She finally understood what being a mother is all about.
My son was unplanned but everything fell into place and worked out beautifully. Our living situation improved, our jobs improved… everything that worried us at first worked itself out.
Our second child (I am currently 17 weeks) was planned and yet everything that was going well when we conceived (financial etc…) has changed and our world seems so upended! But you know what? I would not kill my child because of these problems. Problems are temporary and abortion is forever. We have no guarantee what tomorrow will bring. We do not kill our children because of it.
I agree with the comment above: the shame is interior. We are mammals. We gestate and nurture our children, just like other mammals. We may think because we can read and use technology that we can escape our maternal instincts, but we can’t. It’s too deep in our DNA. I didn’t feel bad because another person told me I should feel bad (none of my friends did that at all). I feel remorse because I miss SOMEONE who would be alive today if I’d slept in that morning instead of leaving the house.
besides when abortion was legalized didnt the pro aborts promise that it would only be used in extreme cases such as rape incest or health of the mother. odd but none of the women i know have ever aborted for these reasons. its usually that it would ruin their career/college cheating on a boyfriend or spouse or just didnt want to be bothered hated the daddy and said they couldnt stomach 18 years of the guy. one woman told me she told her doctor she would kill herself if she were to remain pregnant. he performed the abortionb on her himself. these excuses go on and on. you can exterminate your child “just because” today!!!!
Sydney, hang in there! He/ she will be a blessing to you.
I am just wondering, if a woman has carried a child to term, what lies does she have to tell herself to get through an abortion? Because clearly, if you’ve carried a child, you know there’s a person in there! They have their own personalities, schedules, etc. A sad, sad tragedy.
Very well said, Kelsey, Courtnay, and Sydney.
I have to admit that it bugs me when I hear people say, “Now that we have # children, our family is complete.” How do you know that your family is complete? You can’t possibly know how another child might fit into your family. I’m not saying that everyone should be a Providentalist, but it seems like the height of presumption to say, “I know beyond the shadow of a doubt what a new child would look like, act like, be like, and I know that child would completely destroy our family.” Each one of my children is so amazing in different ways… their looks, their temperament, their personality… and although I can’t possibly predict what #4 (due in December) will look like or act like, s/he’ll be the perfect addition to our family regardless.
I don’t feel like I’m expressing myself adequately, but I can’t find the words to describe just how much this “our family is complete” attitude bugs me. Circumstances can change overnight and I think it’s foolish to make such a declaration in such an unpredictable world.
Apparently some women believe they can be good mothers to a certain number of children but will be spreading themselves too thin if they have another child. They believe they won’t be able to give adequately of themselves to every child.
Is this thinking flawed?
Jayne Mansfield always had a baby when she got pregnant because she opposed abortion. The internationally known sex goddess had 5 children at the time of her death. Had she lived, she would have had more if she had gotten pregnant again.
JoAnna, my family is complete. But I’m gonna guess this isn’t the first time I’ve bugged you. :)
im so glad to hear that about jane mansfield especially when most actresses back then were abortiong. marylin monroe,rita hayworth, judy garland (she regretted it) jane russell was mutilated and also regretted it. shelly winters (as sydney just informed me) lucille ball and so on. stupid movies come and go. these women no doubt aborted for the sake of their careers. motherhood would have been the greatest gift of all.
Like I said, Courtnay, I’m struggling with how to express myself in this regard. I don’t think it’s a bad thing to say, “We have # of children and we’re postponing pregnancy indefinitely due to our circumstances.” My husband and I will be in that situation after #4 arrives. But if God chooses to bless us with #5 in His time, it won’t destroy our family. It might make things temporarily more difficult in terms of finances, logistics, etc., but I’m also confident another child would only enrich our family, should God choose to bless us with one.
I guess I just don’t understand how someone could KNOW with certainty that # of children has “completed” one’s family. It seems so limiting and… restrictive, I guess. Like telling God, “You’ve given me enough blessings, I don’t want any more.”
It is very important for a woman to be honest with her OB/GYN about her pregnancy history for a number of reasons. Breast cancer, for example, is all about estrogen levels and a doctor needs to know a woman’s complete history of pregnancies, live births, induced abortions, miscarriages, etc. in order to be able to ascertain her risk. Please see the following article at the Kansans for Life blog: Mammogram Questions Reveal Risks, Still Hide Abortion
I don’t know with absolute 100 % certainty, and if no. 4 were to come, we would welcome him or her with an extra-special love, our little miracle baby.
But I have to make judgments everyday for the wellbeing of my family because I am the mom. And together with my husband, I knew that my health could not sustain another pregnancy. I made a wise decision for my family. The choices I make do not fly in the face of God’s blessing. He said, Be fruitful and multiplied. I multiplied, and now I’m not. I am so grateful and in love with my 3.
im all for a person saying they dont want anymore kids as long as the husband gets a vasectomy or the woman gets a tubal ligation. i became a mother at 40. to me that was a little old. i really dont want to be parenting into the grandparenting age. and my husband is 52 and he is a grandpa so its safe to say that one of us will be taking measures to prevent pregnancy.
I agree with you, Courtnay, regarding making judgements for the wellbeing of one’s family, within reason (for example, I don’t think one could justify having an abortion by saying it’s best for the wellbeing of the family).
When people ask me if we plan on having more kids, I just say, “We’re not going to intentionally try for any more, but if God chooses to bless us again we’ll welcome the blessing” – because I really have no idea, and never will know (until menopause, I guess!) if our family is complete. Our family is in a completely different situation (thankfully, for the better!) than we were in just a few years ago, and maybe we’ll be in a different place a few years down the road as well. Maybe we’ll be in a position to adopt or foster someday. I guess it’s just more the wording of “our family is complete” in particular that bugs me. To me, it comes across as slamming a door in God’s face and not being receptive to the idea that maybe His plan for my family is bigger than I ever dreamed.
jeanne not to mention damage to the cervix. i did log on and told the woman not to hide it. many women who have aborted require a stitch in their cervix and others could not deliver vaginally. im not sure if the latter has anything to do with abortion but i assume it does.
Abortion and D & C’s weaken the cervix.
Lest anyone think I am saying the intent is the same I am not.
Abortion kills a living child.
A D & C removes a child that has already passed away.
The procedure for both(dilating the cervix)is the same.
I do wonder if doctors let women know that when they have D & C’s? That it could weaken the cervix?
heather says:
October 18, 2011 at 11:23 am
im so glad to hear that about jane mansfield especially when most actresses back then were abortiong. marylin monroe,rita hayworth, judy garland (she regretted it) jane russell was mutilated and also regretted it. shelly winters (as sydney just informed me) lucille ball and so on. stupid movies come and go. these women no doubt aborted for the sake of their careers. motherhood would have been the greatest gift of all.
(Denise) Don’t assume that they “aborted for the sake of their careers.” I believe Jane Russell aborted when she was a teenager and her career wasn’t at issue. I think Marilyn Monroe’s abortions may have been when she was young and between marriages.
I’ve heard Judy Garland feared she might be dangerous to her daughter Liza, a fear some post-abortion women have that they might somehow be dangerous to born children.
@Courtney – God gave us those internal cues for a reason.
You know, my former mother in law is mentally ill. She’s in her eighties and manages to take care of herself and live on her own, but if you saw her walking down the street, you would think she was a homeless person. I think she might be schizophrenic. But you know, she told me she would never have an abortion (the point is moot, since she’s way past childbearing age). Even though she’s “crazy,” she knows its wrong.
Abortion goes against the human instinct to nurture and protect.
@Heather – The actress Dorothy Dandridge became pregnant during her affair with creepy looking director Oscar Preminger. She had an abortion — not only was he married, but she was a “colored” woman — and it would have been a scandal. Like the other actresses mentioned, she regretted it for the rest of her life.
philymiss, did not know that. sad nevertheless. and @denise i believe judy garland had more than one abortion. it was my understanding that her own mother and manager pressured her into it. anyway garland died of a suicide as did marylin monroe. yeah i read about it being a murder from the kennedy family. i dont buy it though. i believe she was a depressed woman who killed herself. monroe had 3 abortions.
@phillymiss i believe that halley berry played d. dandrige in a movie. i would like to see it. hally is from bedford ohio. its about a 20 minute drive from my house:)
oh please. had the local news on earlier and they said that breast cancer is increasing because of alcohol consumption and lack of sunlight! and im not kidding!
Heather, you should definitely see it, I think it’s called “Introducing Dorothy Dandridge.” Halle Berry does an excellent job. They do go into the affair but of course they don’t mention the abortion. She later had a child who was severely developmentally disabled. Back then children like this were almost always institutionalized and she never really got to know her. She didn’t have a very happy life.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0172348/
thanks phillymiss. i will look for the movie. id like to see it. sorry for typing hally instead of halle. loved her in monsters ball. and so beautiful!!!
Denise Noe at 9:06,
I think transplanting an embryo/fetus would be problematic because some women could change their minds about putting the baby up for adoption.
also, this comment was sick:
“Benton Love
While I am glad that more mothers are getting abortions, this statistic: ”
what happened to “safe, legal, and rare”?
Doe says:
October 18, 2011 at 4:30 pm
Denise Noe at 9:06,
I think transplanting an embryo/fetus would be problematic because some women could change their minds about putting the baby up for adoption.
(Denise) Wouldn’t they be much more likely to do this if they carried for 9 months and gave birth? After all, carrying full-term means the body is prepared to breast feed. I remember a birthmother saying it was awful to have the milk pour out that was meant for the baby she had placed for adoption.
One reason so few place for adoption is that many probably INTEND to place for adoption but change their minds when they give birth.
Some who place for adoption change their minds soon after. When I was growing up, I recall a court case surrounding such a case.
“But when a mother, who has already given birth, chooses to kill baby #2, what that says is that her love is not unconditional at all. It is conditional on how convenient the child is, the timing of conception, her feelings about the “completeness” of the family.”
…or it could say that, since abortion was clearly an option for this woman and she chose to give birth in one instance, than that child is really, really special.
Which one, Megan?
Which child is really, really special?
One lived and one died.
Megan, what if the mom goes through with the pregnancy and decides after the baby is born that one of her living children isn’t special enough? Should she be allowed to kill the one she decides isn’t as special?
“Megan, what if the mom goes through with the pregnancy and decides after the baby is born that one of her living children isn’t special enough? Should she be allowed to kill the one she decides isn’t as special?”
I’m so sick of this line of reasoning. How about this:
Outside of mother’s body: right to life.
Inside of mother’s body: subject to mother’s wishes for her body.
If abortion is made illegal and a woman gets pregnant and gives birth, the only thing we will know for sure is that the state thinks the child is “special,” not necessarily the mom. Her opinion would be irrelevant. I think many of you assume that if abortion is criminalized again that this “Culture of Death” cloud/nonsense will disappear and that every woman will be thrilled when she looks at the ultrasound. I doubt it.
But why, Megan? How does the baby’s location affect his/her degree of specialness? If his/her degree of specialness is a reason to kill the baby before birth, why not after, too?
“But why, Megan? How does the baby’s location affect his/her degree of specialness? If his/her degree of specialness is a reason to kill the baby before birth, why not after, too”
This is a secondary reason stemming from her desire not to be pregnant and give birth at that time.
For the one million families that wait for an adopted baby, a little one is very special indeed.
Funny how abortion advocates try to sweep aside pro-life arguements if we make any religious reference. How scientific and logical and biological is it to kill healthy human children based on another person’s opinion of how “special” or “wanted” that human being is? That sounds like a personal belief, a personal belief that is neither scientific, biological, nor logical. Hmmm… I smell hypocrisy!
If abortion is made illegal and a woman gets pregnant and gives birth, the only thing we will know for sure is that the state thinks the child is “special,” not necessarily the mom.
Children don’t need to be (or feel) special to make life worth living. I mean, “If we don’t abort the ones we don’t want, then how will the special ones know they’re special!?” is a pretty unpersuasive line of reasoning.
Her opinion would be irrelevant.
Her opinion on the specialness of a given child is not irrelevant, but it should not determine whether that child lives or dies.
“Stigma is another word for shame. The reason for shame? Because we’re doing something wrong.” – so people with mental illnesses should feel shame? Those with obvious physical or facial deformities? What about mormons, should they also feel shame.
All these groups and more suffer ‘stigma’ to some extent or other by various sections of society.
In this case it is anti-choicers who cast ‘stigma’ on those who choose to abort and wish for them to feel shame in an attempt to induce guilt.
“God gave us those internal cues for a reason” – your belief, not everyones.
“That sounds like a personal belief, a personal belief that is neither scientific, biological, nor logical.”
Funny how the scientific community, that you folks love to reference, isn’t clamoring for an end to abortion cuz it’s killing “pre-born babies.” Funny how the major medical schools in the US are still teaching about how to do abortions. Funny….
And about the religious references. Funny how the Reform Jewish community and mainstream Protestantism supports a woman’s right to choose. But right, they’re not the “true” faiths. LOL.
“In this case it is anti-choicers who cast ‘stigma’ on those who choose to abort and wish for them to feel shame in an attempt to induce guilt”
Yup, flash back to the Middle Ages and they were burning the ”witches” who, as history tells us, were women who performed abortions. The religious patriarchy is still alive and well. In the anti-choice world, the unmarried woman who gives birth is a veritable ”madonna.” The one who has an abortion is either an unrepentant slut or a silly, stupid woman who was either fooled or coerced into an abortion. All very Manichean. But that’s pro-life fer ya.
In this case it is anti-choicers who cast ‘stigma’ on those who choose to abort and wish for them to feel shame in an attempt to induce guilt.
I don’t give a crap whether you feel guilty or not. I care whether humans are being killed. I realize that many thieves, liars and rapists won’t feel shame either but I’ll never support their actions either.
History tells us, eh, cc? History tells us also that in the 4 centuries during which there were Inquisition trials AND the Crusades, a mere 200,000 human beings were killed. Guttmacher tells me that Cece Richards can kill 200,000 a lot more quickly and efficiently. In fact it takes her and cc less than a year. So, oooh, what big winners you abortion fans are! Go you! Don’t want any of those unborn witches to be born, right cc? No one’s going to burn sage over you when you’re gone because you made sure everyone that might care about you is dead. Right? Isn’t that how it is? Wanna quote me on your blog again?
following the conversation:
“But why, Megan? How does the baby’s location affect his/her degree of specialness? If his/her degree of specialness is a reason to kill the baby before birth, why not after, too”
This is a secondary reason stemming from her desire not to be pregnant and give birth at that time.
ok – I fell down. I did not desire a broken leg, but I have one. I could wish that injury away all I want – but would it be reasonable to cut my leg off to avoid the broken leg?
Deadly force, terminating another human’s life is not reasonable. If one does not want to deal with taking care of a child after birth, then adoption will solve that problem. but purposefully ending a child’s life to avoid difficulty is simply non-defensible.
One can not avoid suffering in all forms. One does not get his or her way in all instances. The problem with abortion and other actions that champion individualism and comfort-seeking at it’s worst, is that it does not make a person stronger, better, more loving or more altruistic. It does not take into consideration love and care for another – it’s all about me. Me. Me.
Until we have a change of heart – in all things that champion me, instead of championing you or us – we will continue to want what we want, when we want it. And when the emphasis is on us all the time, there is no enlarging of the heart in a true sense. No concern for the other.
And CC – nothing funny about abortions. It’s deadly serious business, for sure.
I dare-say that no pro-abortion person would volunteer for the equivalent of abortion for themselves. It generally happens that when one group wants to end the legitimate rights of another, they never volunteer themselves or their own families or loved ones for the same treatment. It’s always for ‘the other guy.’
Ugh, Megan, unborn babies are not part of the mother’s body, and are not the mother’s property which she can discard at will. I’m sure the women who run Cosmo and tout abortion as a right would scream and cry if you threw their Manolo Blahniks in the trash. But their babies” pfffft. That’s “choice:” A dead baby.
I knew my daughter was a distinct human being the minute I saw her heart flickering like a light on the ultrasound. She was eight weeks. Her heart went “wooshwooshwoosh” like the wings of a million birds. I loved her. She was HERSELF, not ME. I was poor, alone, scared, depressed. But my love for her conquered my fear. Now I have a 10 year old girl who hops on stage with me to sing “Good Day Sunshine.” I made sacrifices for her, and still do. Sure, I would have had a more illustrious career if I aborted her. I have had to give things up. But in return, I have a little girl who bakes cupcakes with me, and throws her arms arouund my neck and says “Guess what? I love you.” I would rather die having made these sacrifices for my daughter than have had sacrificed my daughter for my own “success.” Killing your baby is not worth it. It kills your child and destroys your soul.
very very powerful and true mary lee! no child should ever be unwanted! i was just playing and laughing with my son. i cant imagine him being dead in a bucket somewhere. the laugh and play is better then going to work. sometimes you believe a degree really makes you someone. its just a piece of stupid paper. most people end up hating the career path they chose anyway.
oh hi x safe legal and rare is gone. why would we want to make a choice rare? why would hitlary clinton utter those words? tell us why you want it to be rare hillary! is it because your cheating hubby got gennifer flowers pregnant and bill had her kill or he would just die if she didnt abort? it would bring you shame?
mary lee, I hear you now. :)
Megan, you want somehow to be ok with your choice. I believe a lesser woman would not even come on this blog. So, I invite you to stick around. You won’t hear any of us pro-lifers backing down, because for us, human life is non-negotiable. I, for one, hear your struggle.
And so I wonder, why are you here? Because I have to say, when I hear from women like yourself, it just underscores the absolute rightness of my prolife-ness. I tell you this because I believe you’re here for a reason.. I just wonder what you think it is.
Megan, if a mother already has a baby and is pregnant with another and feels she cannot handle two, it would be much safer to kill the one in her arms rather than subject her to needless surgery in order to kill the one in her womb. Just sayin!
Courtnay and Joanna…. the fourth child is always the BEST child. The cutest, the most talented, the smartest etc… I am saying this from experience and am not at all biased because I am the 4th child. ;-)
So thankful my mom was pro-life!
heather says:
October 18, 2011 at 9:04 pm
very very powerful and true mary lee! no child should ever be unwanted! i was just playing and laughing with my son. i cant imagine him being dead in a bucket somewhere. the laugh and play is better then going to work.
(Denise) You ARE working — as a homemaker. That’s not a particularly bad job. Compare it to what a male friend of mine has. He used to take incoming calls–appointments, complaints, and questions. When the calls didn’t come he filed. Then the job was changed. It is now telephone soliciting. He finds it boring, tedious, hard on his throat and depressing because so many people react negatively to his calls.
yes denise i am working!!! actress patricia heaton is pro life and she was responding to a quote that a pro abort mentioned. she said “i wanted to go to college so id have something to dob with my time. heaton remarked “raising your children is giving you something to do with your time.” i am also a career woman denise. im an lpn and ive been one since 1988.
heather says:
October 19, 2011 at 6:41 am
yes denise i am working!!! actress patricia heaton is pro life and she was responding to a quote that a pro abort mentioned. she said “i wanted to go to college so id have something to dob with my time. heaton remarked “raising your children is giving you something to do with your time.” i am also a career woman denise. im an lpn and ive been one since 1988.
(Denise) People who genuinely ARE NOT working are not necessarily that bad off. I know people, both men and women, who are disabled and don’t work. They aren’t necessarily less happy than my friend who is on the phone all day trying to sell something, making about 300 phone calls and counting himself lucky if he fills out 2-3 lead applications. When I was married, I was a housewife of the Peg Bundy variety without the kids. After the divorce, I had no job and lived on alimony. My extreme handicap meant I couldn’t be very effective. I am now employed as a writer for a few publishers and am happier than I was but I would not necessarily have been happier at just any job. I was sometimes at a loss as to what to do with my time and sometimes bored. Again, that’s not necessarily worse than a lot of jobs.
well denise i ended up on unemployment and my husband and i lived on that for the full 99 weeks. then he got a workers comp settlement so by the grace of god im able to stay home. but im like sydney. my husband and i arent rich but we are getting by. he also gets ssi. i may be returning to work soon though. as far as your friend answering phones, i tried selling magazines for a company called dial america some years ago. it was a side job,and even though i made good sales it was rough. all those people cussing you out. the money went to madd.
heather says:
October 19, 2011 at 8:55 am
as far as your friend answering phones, i tried selling magazines for a company called dial america some years ago. it was a side job,and even though i made good sales it was rough. all those people cussing you out. the money went to madd.
(Denise) “madd”? Please explain.
MADD = Mathematicians Against Drunk Deriving
madd mothers against drunk driving
doug you know i like you and all but i dont think that mothers who lost their children after they were killed by drunk drivers would see humor in that. you can use humor but thats not appropriate.
heather, I’ve lost quite a few quite a few friends to drunk driving. Some were driving drunk and some weren’t and were hit by drunk drivers but I thought what Doug posted was funny and not making light of the actual act of drunk driving. Just my opinion though.
heather says:
October 19, 2011 at 9:50 am
madd mothers against drunk driving
(Denise) Does that mean you weren’t really “selling” for Dial America but were soliciting for donations to Mothers Against Drunk Driving?
sydney ok agreed. denise i dont know. as far as i know all of the proceeds went to madd. every magazine sale was to raise money for madd and we had to tell folks that the magazine sale money went to madd
denise you ask me some tough questions. i sold magazines for madd. now if dial america took that money then shame on them! but i was good at selling. and doug with the math thing~ that is a bit offensive. i also know people killed in drunk driving accidents. my husbands son was drunk and driving a gto in 2004 and he is grief striken. i found it a little tacky. like are you saying math to count the dead?
oops left out steven was drunk and speeding down ridge rd. he hit a telephone pole and died immediatly. he was 26 yrs old. my husband was in such shock he went to the scene and picked up pieces of his sons skull and teeth. the coroner gave him stevens blood soaked money!!!!!! my husband avoids ridge rd. and cries every time he sees the pole and says “it killed my son.” and he weeps.
and although steven killed himself people are killed every day in drunk driving accidents. some end up in a wheelchair or worse. enough said. nothing amusing about it.
I don’t agree with or support MADD. I read an article a few years back about them developing a pill that could instantly cease the effects of drinking on people. You could take a pill, and stop being drunk within 15 minutes. I was absolutely amazed at this and thought how wonderful it would be for ending drunk driving deaths. In the article though, it said that MADD came out against the development of this medicine. That tells me they aren’t so much against drunk driving, but against drinking, and I can’t support that. I enjoy getting my drank on from time to time.
I feel the same way about Pro-Life people who seem less pro-life and more anti-sex. If you’re against abortion/drunk driving, FINE. Be against them. They’re both horrible, terrible things. However, I enjoy sex and drinking (not at the same time, and both in moderation), and so do many other people, and that doesn’t make us “bad people”.
p.s. I was laid off yesterday. Please pray for my family.
yeah i drink at home sometimes. i only didb it as a side job so whatever. im done commenting on this. anyway drinking and driving~nobody should do that.
i shall pray for you x
Thank you heather. And I agree.
thanks x and who knows maybe i was lied to like the abortion industry lies. i thought i was doing a good thing……lol oh well……it only lasted 3 months.
Jayne Mansfield, who opposed abortion, was very proud of being a mother. “I’m the mother type,” she told friend and biographer May Mann. She felt sorry for some of the other glamour queens, specifically mentioning Jean Harlow, Mae West and Marilyn Monroe, because they were childless.
xalisae, sorry to hear — prayers are w/ you and family.
Xalisae: I don’t agree with or support MADD. I read an article a few years back about them developing a pill that could instantly cease the effects of drinking on people. You could take a pill, and stop being drunk within 15 minutes. I was absolutely amazed at this and thought how wonderful it would be for ending drunk driving deaths. In the article though, it said that MADD came out against the development of this medicine. That tells me they aren’t so much against drunk driving, but against drinking, and I can’t support that.
Wow, X, I hadn’t heard of this “wonder drug,” but I’ll search on it. For now, I can’t believe something would do that, while leaving the person able to drive well.
Saw a thing on TV just yesterday about driving ability. Talking on a cell phone makes most people as likely to have an accident as being just over the legal limit for blood alcohol content. Texting makes them twice as likely…. About 25% of the time, for my job I drive a “big truck,” and from way up high there you see *so many* people gabbing away and texting….
Good luck getting the job back or getting another.