Stanek weekend question: Why doesn’t MSM notice Biden’s legion of flip flops on abortion?
The media and feminists like to accuse Mitt Romney of being a flip-flopper on abortion, simply because he converted from supporting abortion to opposing it.
They also like to point out Romney and his running mate, Paul Ryan, don’t even see eye to eye on the issue, since the former has a rape and incest exception and the latter doesn’t.
And then we move to the Barack Obama/Joe Biden ticket, which, on the issue of abortion, is actually all of the above on steroids. Yet we hear nary a peep from the press questioning the vast inconsistencies.
I gleaned all the following points from National Right to Life’s excellent piece, “Biden-Ryan Versus Obama on Abortion Policy.”
While Biden has never called himself pro-life, he was at one point considered so weak on the issue a Planned Parenthood official stated in 1986, “Joe Biden moans a lot and then usually votes against us.”
In 1982 Biden voted for a constitutional amendment to overturn Roe v. Wade, because, according to NRLC, he thought that Supreme Court decision had “gone too far.”
It may be hard to believe, given Biden’s statement during the October 11 vp debate that he “fundamentally disagree[d]” with Ryan’s rape/incest exception, that Biden once held that same exception. According to NRLC:
[T]hroughout his Senate career Biden voted for the Hyde Amendment, prohibiting most federal funding of abortion. Indeed, Biden explicitly advocated that the Hyde Amendment should contain an exception only to save the life of the mother, and he voted repeatedly against adding exceptions for rape and incest to the amendment.
Biden also takes a much less radical stand in support of abortion than his boss, begging the question, “Mr. Biden, isn’t it hypocritical for you to criticize Mr. Ryan for supporting positions for which you yourself often voted as a U.S. senator – especially since your record is opposite the positions taken by Barack Obama on those same issues?,” quoting NRLC.
To wit:
- Partial Birth Abortion Ban: As U.S. Senator Biden repeatedly voted for the PBA Ban and against attempts to weaken it with a so-called health exception. After President Clinton twice vetoed the ban, Biden voted to override the vetoes. Meanwhile Obama opposed a similar ban as Illinois state senator and went so far as to attempt to raise campaign cash in opposition to the federal ban.
- Freedom of Choice Act: As U.S. Senator Obama cosponsored FOCA, a radical bill that would have overturned the PBA Ban and all other federal and state limitations on abortion. Meanwhile Biden “expressed concern” that FOCA “would go too far in overturning state abortion limitations,” according to NRLC. Biden repeatedly refused to support the legislation unless it included several exceptions.
- Hyde Amendment: For decades Biden voted for this annual rider that banned federal funding of abortion except to save the life of the mother. When attempts were made to weaken Hyde, Biden always rebuffed attempts to add a rape/incest exception.
- Born Alive Infant Protection Act: U.S. Senator Biden voted for it, Illinois state Sen. Obama voted against the identical version.
In light of all this, NRLC suggested another question for the debate, “Mr. Biden, since you yourself voted for several major types of pro-life legislation for a period of decades in the U.S. Senate – taking positions the same as Mr. Ryan on those issues — when exactly did you decide that those positions were ‘extreme’?”
Your thoughts on why no one seems to notice Biden’s vast inconsistencies on abortion and his opposition to many of Obama’s radical stands?
Because a lot of people seem to see going pro-life to pro-choice as some kind of enlightenment, like everyone should be headed that way. Going from choicer to lifer however, thats like stepping back into the Dark Ages!!
My other theory is that no one cares about anything Biden thinks. Even Democrats lol.
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Apparently Joe thinks it is illegal for Planned Parenthood to commit abortions at all. At least that is what he said on the campaign trail yesterday.
http://nation.foxnews.com/joe-biden/2012/10/12/biden-says-planned-parenthood-can-t-perform-abortions-under-law
And like he said at the debate. He always says what he means and means what he says. lol
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Jack, another theory is that Americans look at Biden as being such a buffoon that most of us don’t even hold him responsible for what he says. It would be like holding a two year old responsible for putting their shoes on the wrong feet.
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You only had to observe Biden’s erratic and inappropriate behavior at the debate and you will have your answer.
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People are kidding themselves if they think the “main stream media” has really pinned down one party with fact checks and analysis and left the other alone.
Let’s look at the big picture here. We have two candidates that are spending an estimated $2.5billion on the Presidential race, and total spending for this election (all races) is going to be around $6billion.
Who gets that money? Advertising companies – television companies, print, radio.
So is it in their best interest to pin down these candidates and really take a hard look at them? The biggest customer they have every couple of years?
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For the sake of political expediency both VP candidates have subordinated their own views on abortion to that of the respective presidential candidate with whom they share the ticket.
Politics does makes for strange bedfellows.
Figuratively speaking Biden is on the ‘down low’ with b o and Ryan has agreed to publicly adopt Romneys ‘sleep number’ as his own.
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Why doesn’t MSM notice Biden’s legion of flip flops on abortion?
Because like the frog repeatedly jumping half the remaining distance to the wall, Biden compromises always result in an incremental move toward the MSM’s bigoted view of the pre-natal child.
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Biden is a useful tool for the Democratic party and pro-abortion forces. Unveiling Joe Biden’s fall into immorality won’t help the Democrats get elected.
Other prolife Democrats should look to Biden to see how the Democratic party will tear you down until you give up all of your values. Biden sold his moral convictions so that he could be VPOTUS. His spastic disposition, his evil laugh and smile, reveal the inner demons he has accumulated because he has tried to reconcile the irreconiliable - respecting human life from conception to death with the Democratic party.
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That Chris Hayes pinhead has GOT TO GO.
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Why doesn’t the MSM notice Biden’s flip flops on abortion ?……..
Same reason that the Conservative Media doesn’t ask why Romney stood by and allowed somewhere in the neighborhood of 100,000 + baby murders during his reign as the Governor of Massachusetts.
That makes Mitt Romney an accessory to murder…..which according to law is that you knew a murder was going to occur but you allowed it to happen anyway.
Mitt Romney has the blood of innocents on his hands….no matter the lying words out of his lying mouth about being Pro-Life.
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So you’re going to stand by and let a couple of active “murderers” promote their agenda, when you could vote for a reformed one and an active opponent of murders?
You’re the Bad Samaritan, Danny.
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I remember reading a letter to National Review with a stop abortion plan. The writer’s plan was to have sperm from every fertile male stored. Then all males would undergo mandatory vasectomies. The stored sperm would be used when the man and a woman agreed she should be impregnated with it.
OK, it’s pretty extreme. But this issue gets people thinking in extremes.
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“Prolife” means more than being “profetus”.
But not in the fetus worshipping eyes.
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Danny: “Mitt Romney has the blood of innocents on his hands…”
I agree; however, everyone human being who lives has blood on their hands – not feeding enough of the poor, abortion legal in numerous countries, etc… The legality of abortion is the fault of every American citizen and every person on the planet, even those people born after 1973. Danny do you think your hands have no blood on them?
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Well Russ, I don’t know (or know of) anyone who worships fetuses, and I’m pretty sure you don’t either. If you’re going to bother trolling at all, at least try a little harder than that.
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Russ, in calling us fetus worshippers, you’re pretty much the ideological heir of those who called the abolitionists “n***** lovers”. Aren’t you proud?
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JackBorsch says:
October 13, 2012 at 10:32 am
Because a lot of people seem to see going pro-life to pro-choice as some kind of enlightenment, like everyone should be headed that way. Going from choicer to lifer however, thats like stepping back into the Dark Ages!!
(Denise) The question of whether abortion should be legal or illegal is a tormenting one to any thinking person with an intact conscience. In addition, people are often going to be influenced by personal experiences. For example, someone who was close to a woman who committed suicide while she was pregnant or “disappeared” when it was illegal may find that experience influences them to want this legal. Someone who has a late abortion and is told that the “fetus” came out as a live baby with skin burned and screaming is likely to be influenced to believe abortion should be banned as are those close to that girl or woman.
This is an issue on which we must expect people to change their minds . . . and change their minds . . . and change their minds . . .
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Denise..,no change of mind..It is has to do with accepting truth that the preborn is a human being of equal value to his or her mother and father and brother and sister,etc… When a mother who is pregnant kills herself there are two lives to mourn and is not a justification for legalizing abortion and neither is the “disappearance” of the mother justification for the legalization of abortion. Denise, remember the following lesson from elementary school: two wrongs don’t make a right. So why would one wrong make abortion right? It doesn’t. Abortion is the second wrong in your examples.
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Tyler says:
October 14, 2012 at 2:21 pm
Denise..,no change of mind..It is has to do with accepting truth that the preborn is a human being of equal value to his or her mother and father and brother and sister,etc… When a mother who is pregnant kills herself there are two lives to mourn and is not a justification for legalizing abortion and neither is the “disappearance” of the mother justification for the legalization of abortion.
(Denise) If someone’s daughter, sister, or mother is in that group, that person might be more likely to favor keeping abortion legal. The law was powerless to bring the embryo or fetus to birth. The girl or woman could have survived without the embryo or fetus. If she felt unable, for whatever reason, to carry to term, the embryo or fetus was doomed. You might say, “She should have wanted to carry to term” but the fact is that not everyone does.
My point is just that people’s experiences often affect how they view this issue. It happens on the other side as well with people who have bad experiences with legal abortion believing it should be outlawed.
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Denise, did you stop to consider the experiences, and lost experiences, of the fetus or embryo that would be aborted in your scenarios before you posted? I don’t think so.
Futhermore, people’s experiences often inform their decisions…you are not supplying novel information. The fact someone will obtain abortions illegally if abortion was outlawed is as a novel as noticing that murder still occurs in our present society which has a legal regime that outlaws murder.
Denise please stop trying to be so provocative.
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Hans Johson said……
“So you’re going to stand by and let a couple of active “murderers” promote their agenda, when you could vote for a reformed one and an active opponent of murders?”
(Sigh)…..Proved to me Hans….please for once…..prove to me that Mitt Romney has “reformed”. While you are at it….other than his “reformed” words….please prove to all of us….with HARD evidence (remember….words do not count),,,,,,how Mitt is ACTIVELY opposing baby murders when he no long holds the reigns of power in either Massachusetts any more…nor has the power of the Presidency as of yet.
How….pray tell….and better yet….with HARD, PROVABLE EVIDENCE….that Mitt Romney is going to (A) oveturn Roe v. Wade…since according to the Constitution he does not have the power to do that….(Remember…if you can….it’s the Presidency….not the Monarchy) or (B) Mitt is going to defund Planned Parenthood since that is also the pervue of the Congress (you know….that body that represents US…WE THE PEOPLE) and not an imperial President…..or (C) overturn Roe v Wade and defund Planned Parenthood….all for the same reasons as above.
Let’s not EVEN get to the fact that the Supreme Court will get involved….LOL !!! REMEMBER ALL YOU GEORGE W. BUSH FANS…..CHIEF JUSTICE JOHN ROBERTS DECIDING VOTE ON OBAMACARE…..(ahem….wasn’t that one of the reasons we were told to vote for W….he would appoint Conservative and Strict Constructionists to the Supreme Court)…….. LOL !!!!!!!! And seeing as how Mitt Romney is not an idealogue even as much a George W. and we got Roberts……what makes you think Mitt will do any better if any openings come up in the SCOTUS ??????
Oh…wait…it gets even better. Let’s say that the ARCH PRO LIFER that Mitt Romney supposedley is now does EVERYTHING YOU WISH FOR IN TERMS OF THE ABORTION ISSUE on the national level….(Trust me ….it’s true now)…..most states would keep abortion legal…..so GREAT NEWS FOR BABIES IN MISSISSIPPI but not so good for Pennsylvania or New York…or California…or Oregon…or Washington…..well….you get the picture.
But I’m sure all the aborted babies in those states will give a GOOD CHEER for Romney anyway……LOL !!!!!
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Sigh. Mitt is just a man. All he can really do is try to influence for the good. He’s done a better job at that than the both of us, I don’t doubt, if you’ve heard anything about his personal history.
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Tyler said…..
“I agree; however, everyone human being who lives has blood on their hands – not feeding enough of the poor, abortion legal in numerous countries, etc… The legality of abortion is the fault of every American citizen and every person on the planet, even those people born after 1973. Danny do you think your hands have no blood on them?”
Yes….I do have blood on my hands. Same reason as all of us….but particularly the Pro-Life movement.
Namely…..cowardice.
It’s really the only logical conclusion.
Think about it. We have fought a war…in part…when we found out the extent of it….to stop genocide by the Germans against the Jews….and the Japanese against the Chinese….(in fact we did that even before WW II with the formation of the AVG…the American Volunteer Group…otherwise known as the Flying Tigers.)
We did it again in the War of the Balkans to stop Serbian genocidal atrocities.
And we took up arms and shot, maimed, bayonetted, hung, and blew apart with cannon shot more British troops and German Hessians than they did us during the Revolution. (NOW…GRANTED…this has NOTHING TO DO WITH GENOCIDE….BUT GIVE ME A MOMENT)
Now….really…REALLY…slowly think and meditate on this. We took up arms to stop genocide of people we did not know nor were American citizens. And during the Revolution we took up arms and killed thousands of British and German troops for a piece of paper…..and to protect a supposedly “SELF EVIDENT” set of freedoms.
And for you “Tea Partiers” we went to war and killed people over the high taxation of tea and how that was wrecking our home grown tea industry.
Now…ONCE AGAIN….THINK ABOUT THESE THINGS. If these above examples were so important as to mobilize young men to sacrifice their lives…sometimes in the worst way possible….and in the case of the Revolution….to defend…not a person….but an IDEA…..
Why has the genocide of 50 million + Babies not been enough to respond with armed force….if not by the forces of the STATE then by the force of public militias?
Cowardice….pure and simple.
So remember these words on July 4th, 2013….no matter if Obama is President again….or Mitt Romney is President for the first time. After you all gut yourselves with hot dogs and hamburgers and have gone to the Veteran Graveyards to pay respects or plant little America flags…..and finally at night….go over to the park or the beach and watch the firework displays all to Patriotic music…..all to celebrate the sacrifices of the Founding Fathers and the Patroits…both regular army….the colonial militias and even the Minute Men…..all to “DEFEND AND PROTECT” the infant piece of paper know as the Constitution…….
Just remember that on that day…..10’s of THOUSANDS of babies will have their Constituional Rights taken away ( as natural born citizens) in the most heinous and murderous ways imaginable……
……and listen to them scream…..
“WHY DO YOU ALL CELEBRATE THOSE EARLY AMERICANS WHO TOOK UP ARMS TO DEFEND A PIECE OF PAPER WHICH GUARANTEED LIFE, LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS….AND TO CELEBRATE THE MEN AND WOMEN WHO TOOK UP ARMS TO DEFEND THE VICTIMS OF GENOCIDE IN OTHER COUNTRIES…..AND YOU DO NOTHING WHEN GENOCIDE HAPPENS EVERYDAY TO AMERICA CITIZENS BY AMERICAN CITIZENS….AND HAVE NOT ONLY OUR LIBERTY AND OUR PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS TAKEN AWAY….BUT OUR LIVES AS WELL…..IN….COLD….BLOOD ????
And then they will whisper the answer with the voice of a child into our ears…….
Cowards.
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People like you genuinely scare me, Danny. What do you suggest? “Eye for an eye”? Start bombing clinics and killing doctors, maybe even start taking out every day pro-choicers as well?
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LOL !!!!
Jack…..it’s ignorant, buffoons like you …..who wouldn’t know irony if it hit them in the face…..(just like my last post did)….who in the ignorance and fear of the O-BOOGY MAN jumping out and going BOO ! that you all are going to run into the arms of Mitt Romney with a PROVEN track record of standing aside and letting genocide happen in his state…..much less the fact that he rammed down socialized health care as well…..socialized health care….I might remind you….that helped many women afford to murder their child.
But I forgive you for your ignorance in history…..obviously you were the product of the public school system…..but remember….according to the British and King George….WE were the TERRORISTS of that day……particularly the way we employed guerilla style combat tactics and would not engage in “CIVILIZED” combat by going toe to toe…..musket to musket in long….easily seen lines.
Plus….it was a direct afront to GOD himself….us unruly, unnapreciative, rebels….for an act against the King (as it was not only “SELF EVIDENT” to all British kings….BUT WITH THE SANCTION OF THE CHURCH…..that to be a King was a DIVINE RIGHT FROM GOD HIMSELF )
So not only were we TERRORISTS….we were trying to TEAR DOWN GOD by TEARING DOWN THE REIGN OF KING GEORGE IN AMERICA.
Once again…read my words….slowly and meditate on them. I was simply pointing out…..with historical fact…..the irony and the hyprocrisy of the America People and their leaders today concerning the genocide that is happening as we speak.
Genocide is “the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group”,[1]
50 million + babies of various ethnic, racial, religious and national groups (the most important being the Nation of the United States) have been slaughtered…..without one state or national leader calling out the military…either the National Guard or Federal Troops….to stop it…..ON….OUR….VERY…..SOIL….EVERY….DAY.….for the last 39 years and counting.
But we will bomb the Balkans…..fight WW II and kill for pieces of paper…….
Curious, don’t you think…..????
Oh….right….you don’t think……because the truth is much to painful.
Hey….American Idol is on…..and did you catch what Rush Limbaugh said the other day?
LOL !!!!!!!
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Here you go Jack….right off Jill’s homepage……..
Doom to you who legislate evil, who make laws that make victims.
~ Isaiah 10:1, The Message translation
Whoah……Isaiah….calling down the DOOOOOMMMM !!!!!
Let’s see…..Merriam Webster dictionary…..hmmmm…oh…here it is……
Doom
a : judgment, decision; especially : a judicial condemnation or sentence
b (1) : judgment 3a (2) : judgment day 1
3
a : destiny; especially : unhappy destiny
b : death, ruin
WOAHHH !!!! Isaiah calling out DEATH !!!! RUIN !!!!
Jack says…..AHHHHHH !!!!! SAVE ME MITT….SAVE ME FROM THAT SCARY ISAIAH !!!!!
uh…..hold on…..wait just a minute…….wasn’t Isaiah simply speaking God’s word through him in the role of the prophet? Then those are God’s Words…then…right?
Jack: AAHHHHH!!! SAVE ME MITT….SAVE ME FROM THAT SCARY GOD !!!!!!
Here is the extended version of that single line from Isaiah 10……
1-4 Doom to you who legislate evil,
who make laws that make victims—
Laws that make misery for the poor,
that rob my destitute people of dignity,
Exploiting defenseless widows,
taking advantage of homeless children.
What will you have to say on Judgment Day,
when Doomsday arrives out of the blue?
Who will you get to help you?
What good will your money do you?
A sorry sight you’ll be then, huddled with the prisoners,
or just some corpses stacked in the street.
Even after all this, God is still angry,
his fist still raised, ready to hit them again.
Hmmmmmm……that would seem to cover unborn children murdered in the protection of their mother’s womb…by the choice of their mother…..under the LAW AND THE IMPRIMATUR OF THE STATE.
AHHHH…SCARY GOD….SCARY GOD…..SAVE ME MITT !!!!!
LOL !!!!!
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OH….MY….GOSH !!!!
Mitt just LIED again !!!!
Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney on Saturday accused President Barack Obama of failing to “stand up to China” after the U.S. Treasury put off releasing a politically sensitive report on the currency policies of major U.S. trading partners.
Nicholas Kamm | AFP | Getty Images
.
“Four years after promising to take China ‘to the mat’ for its manipulative currency practices, President Obama has once again failed to live up to his word,” Romney spokeswoman Andrea Saul said in a statement released by the campaign office.
“We can’t afford another four years of President Obama’s failure to stand up to China. Mitt Romney will do it on day one of his presidency,” she said.
ROTFLMBO !!!!!!!
REALLY !!!???? So Mitt is “TAKING TO THE MAT” the very country that makes all of our stuff we buy with our worthless currency all the while China is the NUMBER BUYER OF OUR DEBT….effectively renewing our credit line so we can pay for all the stuff we buy from China… LOL !!!!!
So let’s see…..JUST HOW MANY THINGS IS MITT PROMISING TO DO ON DAY 1……
HMMMM…..
There’s repealing ObamaCare on Day 1 by Excutive Order…(which will be Constitutionally challenged shortly afterwards as it should be by a Federal Appeals Court and stayed until such time as to bump it RIGHT BACK up to none other than CHIEF JUSTICE JOHN ROBERTS. LOL !!!!
Mitt is going to approve the Keystone Pipeline by Executive Order (which will be challenged again….and sent back to Congress to approve or not again.
Mitt will introduce tax cuts and reforms…..all of which go nowhwere in the Senate,
And….of course…the above mentioned TAKING CHINA TO THE MATT !!!!!
WOW !!!! What a FIRST DAY THAT WILL BE !!!!!
I’m sure good ol’ “truthseekr” is trolling about somewhere. He’ll claim that Mitt told the truth about EVERYTHING on DAY 1…..and technically might be true…we will see.
But he will NOT accomplish any of those things….he’ll just INTRODUCE THEM….and watch CONGRESS AND THE COURTS REJECT THEM ALL.…….
And China will laugh at poor ol’ Mitt….as he comes hat in hand….every month….pleading with the Bank of China to buy more US Treasuries so we can keep the whole stinking mess called America running for just one more month.
Oh….and most important of all……i wonder how many babies will be murdered Nationawide on DAY 1….all the while Mitt is introducing all this stuff….and TAKING CHINA TO THE MATT ???
LOL !!!!!!
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Oh….and most important of all……i wonder how many babies will be murdered Nationawide on DAY 1….all the while Mitt is introducing all this stuff….and TAKING CHINA TO THE MATT ???
Let me answer my own question……
According to the CDC…..3,288 per day….1 every 26 seconds….and on an annualized basis…..that comes out to 1.2 million per year.
(Of course this does NOT include chemical abortions. I mean….most of you guys can’t handle the truth now….you REALLY….REALLY…don’t won’t to know what the annual number is when you include that)……14 million
oops…did that…..did that go out ???? oh dear.
I wonder how many mothers will find out on Christmas Day they are pregnant and end up killing their baby on DAY 1 of Mitt’s Presidency while he is TAKING CHINA TO THE MAT ?
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Denise,
As someone who didn’t want to bring my first fetus to term because I didn’t want to be pregnant then, BUT DID ANYWAY BECAUSE IT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO AND THE ALTERNATIVE WOULD’VE BEEN KILLING MY CHILD, kindly shove off.
Women’s wants do not determine the rising of the sun, the color of the sky, or any other organic fact in this world. Boo, hoo, too bad so sad, but it’s time for us to be grown-ups and DEAL WITH IT in mature ways that don’t involve passing down the results of our bad choices to be inflicted upon our children. Seriously. This whole “the law is powerless” b.s. is absolutely ridiculous. There are always going to be people who break the law, but acting as though the majority of women are going to break the law in order to kill their children after Roe is overturned is infantilizing and insulting to women. Women as a whole are capable of so much more than stamping their feet and telling the legal system “Kiss off! I’m going to do it MY WAY, anyway!” in a tantrum. ESPECIALLY when you consider how VASTLY different social attitudes are towards women in general these days compared to before Roe! When my parents were growing up, an unmarried pregnant woman was severely stigmatized. When I was pregnant (unmarried) with my girl, it was easy not to care. Granted, I was well out of high school when I became pregnant, but I went to school with 3 different girls who became pregnant our senior year, and not only were they able to get through school, but they moved on to college and very lucrative careers (they did better than I did, as a matter of fact. I would’ve done better for myself if I’d never married my daughter’s father at all, frankly. He only held me back.)
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Dude, Danny I do believe you are genuinely insane.Please, really, go see a professional before you cause some damage. Not even joking.
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Danny,
I found somebody you could vote for. His name is Neil Horsley. He has a plan to end abortion through politics. He wants to start by running for governor; outlawing abortion and using the national guard to stop the murder. Seriously, you should hook up with him. He is easy to find. Just google his name.
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It’s starting to look like Danny worships his own opinion. Scary.
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xalisae, excellent post at 7:44 am.
Just to clarify. I think your position on marriage is the following, but please let me know if I am wrong. Marriage as institution is beneficial for the couple, but specific marriages don’t work out because certain individuals, such as your ex-husband, are ready for marriage. The bad behavior of these individuals should not reflect on the institution on marriage.
I realize you never talked about the institution of marriage, just your own marriage and your own experience of it. I am just concerned that some people will not look into the benefits of the marriage institution and will just write it off without giving it serious consideration. What advice would you give to young women about marriage?
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Jack, I think you could be more polite in your advice to Danny.
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xalisae says:
October 15, 2012 at 7:44 am
Denise,As someone who didn’t want to bring my first fetus to term because I didn’t want to be pregnant then, BUT DID ANYWAY BECAUSE IT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO AND THE ALTERNATIVE WOULD’VE BEEN KILLING MY CHILD, kindly shove off.Women’s wants do not determine the rising of the sun, the color of the sky, or any other organic fact in this world. Boo, hoo, too bad so sad, but it’s time for us to be grown-ups and DEAL WITH IT in mature ways that don’t involve passing down the results of our bad choices to be inflicted upon our children. Seriously. This whole “the law is powerless” b.s. is absolutely ridiculous.
(Denise) OK. The pregnant woman kills herself. How do we bring the embryo or fetus to term without her?
The law says the unborn should be carried to term. How do we as a society carry the embryo or fetus to term without the female who was pregnant?
Tell me how the law can do that.
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Tyler said….
“Jack, I think you could be more polite in your advice to Danny.“
Thanks for the thought Tyler….but honest…it’s ok. After personally facing death, destitution and homelessness….and all with kids no less…..I fear nothing…including the unsubstantiated claims of someone with low, critical thinking skills.
As most people have on this site.
After all….my posts are only lengthy because I am the only one who backs up EVERY word I say with evidence, facts…( both secular, historical, political and Biblical ) and reason.
Every one who refutes me…..does so once they are confounded and frustrated on the veracity of my facts and the larger truths they highlight.
NOT ONE has ever backed up anything they say in the negative about me personally or the facts and figures I give with ANY SHRED of evidence or facts of their own.
So….it comes as no surprise to me when the best anyone can come up with is name calling and false witness.
So….in the end…..it is also no surprise that this supposedly “CHRISTIAN” nation….chock full of “CHRISTIANS” ….who allow genocide and infanticide to occur on a national scale for 1 year shy of a Biblical Generation……
…..would also stoop to name calling and bearing false witness as well.
Particularly when the truth based on facts hits them squarely between the eyes.
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Danny,
Time to put the pipe up. Please.
Sincerely,
Whats left of your brain.
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Courtney said…..
Danny,
Time to put the pipe up. Please.
Sincerely,
Whats left of your brain.
Thanks Courtney for vaildating EXACTLY what I stated above right before your post.
For you information….I have never smoked dope, hash or cigarettes for that matter. I have never even so much as experimented with any kind of illegal or illicit drugs. As a child of the 60’s and 70’s and spending my college days in the early eighties I saw too many of my friends drop off on that junk….if not die from it.
Plus…..my mother’s father….my grandfather….was a drunk and shot himself. When my grandmother remarried….she married another drunk….but an angry drunk. Who before killing himself….killed my grandmother in front of my mother.
So….drinking for me was out as well.
But thanks for bearing false witness anyway.
Have a nice day. And please try to come back with facts and truth of your own to refute what I have shown everyone here about the lie that is Mitt Romney.
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Marriage as institution is beneficial for the couple, but specific marriages don’t work out because certain individuals, such as your ex-husband, are ready for marriage. The bad behavior of these individuals should not reflect on the institution on marriage.
Yeah. That sums it up pretty well. The biggest piece of advice I’d have for…anyone…is don’t compromise your ideals for someone else. It’ll save you a lot of heartache in the long run.
OK. The pregnant woman kills herself. How do we bring the embryo or fetus to term without her?
The law says the unborn should be carried to term. How do we as a society carry the embryo or fetus to term without the female who was pregnant?Tell me how the law can do that
The idea that this will be a widespread problem after abortion is illegal again is just as asinine as claiming that women will abort illegally en masse. I’m sorry, I just don’t believe for a second that we females are THAT mentally defective, and all the evidence I’ve read only confirms this.
I’m not certain where it went, but I remember reading not that long ago that when asked, somewhere along the line of 80% of women when asked what they would do if abortion was illegal again would just have the baby. The rest said they’d try to go out of the country to obtain a legal abortion. NEWSFLASH: We women just aren’t that stupid or insane, despite what various propaganda sources would have us believe. You should try getting away from the nutbars with whom you associate and get yourself some sane friends. But as they say, birds of a feather…
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@ x: I wasn’t suggesting women will commit suicide in massive numbers if abortion is outlawed. The point I’m making is that bringing the embryo or fetus to term is completely dependent (for the present time) on a living female body. It can’t be nurtured anywhere else.
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And my point is, suicide is something insane people do. Sometimes insane people also walk naked down the middle of a 4 lane highway. We don’t legalize walking naked down the middle of a 4 lane highway just for them, because it’s dangerous and will result in people being hurt/killed/maimed, including themselves. Newborns can’t take care of themselves, and many times their continued survival is dependent (almost) entirely on their mother who tends to have custody by default 9 times out of 10. Why should a mother killing the child 2 months, 3 months, 4 months, 5 months, 6 months before birth be looked at as a more legitimate course of action than a mother killing the child 1 hour, 4 days, 3 weeks, 8 months, or whenever, after that child’s birth? What is it that makes a woman think “Yeah, this is acceptable.” when it comes to abortion, but “WHOA…NO WAY!” when looking at infanticide? IT’S THE SAME CHILD, ONLY YOUNGER!
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xalisae says:
October 15, 2012 at 1:57 pm
And my point is, suicide is something insane people do.
(Denise) Suppose the pregnant woman dies — never mind the reason. What can be done bring the embryo or fetus to term?
Nothing (at the present time). The embryo or fetus cannot live outside the womb of a living female. Thus, there is no way for the law to bring the pregnancy to term if the female is dead.
It is possible that someday it will be possible. Artificial wombs may well be developed in the future. It also might be possible in the future to have pre-natal adoptions with embryos or fetuses transplanted from one womb to another. Such developments may mean that eventually the law will have the power to bring all human unborn to birth — although the birth might be something other than what we presently think of as birth.
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Denise,
Suppose a person is murdered – never mind the reason. What can be done to restore life to the murdered victim? Nothing. The person cannot be brought back to life. Thus, there is no way for the law to bring life to the victim if the victim has been murdered.
It is possible someday it will be possible. Artificial life may well be developed in the future. It also might be possible in the future to have pre-crime capabilities so that a person’s mind can exist without its body. Such developments may mean that eventually the law will have power to bring all murdered victims to life – although the life might be something other than what we presently think of as life.
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Lol, okay yeah Tyler I will get right on that whole more polite to Danny thing. You are so transparent.
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x :Newborns can’t take care of themselves, and many times their continued survival is dependent (almost) entirely on their mother who tends to have custody by default 9 times out of 10. >>
(Denise) Again there is a distinction between a newborn and an unborn. The newborn CAN be handed to someone else. A baby that is only ten minutes old (that is detached from the mother) does NOT AUTOMATICALLY DIE if the mother dies. In fact, MANY babies have survived after mothers perished very soon after childbirth. OTOH, if a 4 months pregnant woman dies, the chances of saving the unborn is — currently — zero.
<<Why should a mother killing the child 2 months, 3 months, 4 months, 5 months, 6 months before birth be looked at as a more legitimate course of action than a mother killing the child 1 hour, 4 days, 3 weeks, 8 months, or whenever, after that child’s birth? What is it that makes a woman think “Yeah, this is acceptable.” when it comes to abortion, but “WHOA…NO WAY!” when looking at infanticide? IT’S THE SAME CHILD, ONLY YOUNGER!>>
(Denise) IMO, there are 2 different things going on here. I’ve talked to women who simply don’t believe that an embryo or fetus (at least in the early stages) is a human life. They view it as something like a blueprint FOR a human being. This is especially true if she has a 1st trimester abortion. Whoopi Goldberg emphasized that she aborted early in the pregnancy. She didn’t regard it as a baby but as “stuff coming together” to make a baby. Billie Jean King commented that her abortion was “early enough in the pregnancy that I didn’t feel like I was destroying life.” My friend Eleanor Cooney was at the beginning of her 2nd trimester but still didn’t believe the fetus was a baby. She thinks it is “a matter of development and sentience.”
The above reflects their beliefs, not mine.
The 2nd matter has to do with the specifics of the condition of pregnancy. Cooney believes brain chemicals fail to activate to allow women to accept the conditions of pregnancy. That is why her attitude toward “completing the pregnancy” was “no way.” They simply find the physical changes of pregnancy intolerable so they are compelled to just STOP the process.
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Danny, did you find Neil Horsley. He ran for governor in the Creator’s Rights Party. You and him really should hook up. Seriously. I’d almost move to Georgia just to vote for him. What do you think of him?
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Really….truthseekr…..
Is this the best you can do…..don’t answer that…..no, seriously….just do what you and all the others who get their panties in a wad when I show TONS of direct information on Mitt Romney’s flip flops, lies and the historical data of the total ineffectiveness of Republicans since Nixon….ALL OF WHOM had more Conservative and Idealogical bonafides that Mitt Romney has ever had……
Simply…don’t answer. You will just embarrass yourself further.
Now….my turn. I had NEVER….in my life heard of this man Neil Horsley until you mentioned him.
One word….after doing extensive research on him……NUTBURGER.
Don’t really know what god he worships…..but it is not Jehovah-jireh…..The Great I Am.….My Rock…My Fortress.
This piece of desperate white trash is simply a white bread version of all those pathetic little child like Muslims who go apopleptic when the slightest thing is said against Mohammed. ( WAHHH….WAHHH….HE SAID BAD THINGS ABOUT MOOHAMED…ALLAH…..I GONNA GO BOOM NOW ! WAHHH….WAHHH…..BOOOOMMM !!!! )
Scared little children…both of them…. who think their god is so small…..so ineffective at taking care of its own honor and glory that they feel the need to do it for them……either by the bomb vest or the gun.
However….my God….tells me this…..
He says, “Be still, and know that I am God;
I will be exalted among the nations,
I will be exalted in the earth.”
Psalms 46:10
And move to Georgia….are you serious ??? !!! Lived in that state….never want to go back. I was born and raised and left Mississippi. Georgia is Mississippi with mountains and beaches. LOL !!!!
Hey….lighten up….it was just a joke !
But seriously….ain’t moving back. Too many No-Seeums in southeast Georgia. Felt like my head was catching fire every time I wanted to take a simple stroll in the evening.
But…hey…if American Taliban Horsley puts a tingle up your leg….and you got “Georgia on your mind”…..go for it.
See ya in the funny papers.
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I think Neil has the same rage you vocalize about innocent unborn children being slaughtered in America. Only Neil is brave and bold enough to actually put a plan into action instead of name calling others. Just my two cents. I am not saying that to knock you; I am just calling it like I see it.
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Danny,
I too have never imbibed in alcohol or tobacco.
But there’s one other area I’m worried about with you. Please take at least one page from Mitt Romney’s playbook.
Try decaf.
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Dear Jack,
Please tell me what I am transparent about?
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To truthseekr…….
Obviously along with not understanding of my rhetorical use of extreme irony….(backed up by 200+ years of political history)…as a means of highlighting American and Christian hypocrisy, cowardice and ignorance…..all the while using biting satire in the role of the great pamphleteers and cultural satirists such as Thomas Paine, Benjamin Franklin, Mark Twain and Will Rogers…….
……it’s obvious you do not understand the difference between vain, human rage and righteous indignation. You know….the kind that Jesus employed against the Pharisees and the Temple version of Goldman Sachs.
To Jack who suggested I try decaf….
Well….if I drank real coffee….maybe. I grew up in a household who drank it strong and black…no cream…no sugar. Tried it once….spit it out on the table. Mom was not happy. LOL !!!
If I do drink it….it’s usually comes from a can as a fake cappuccino mix…..which is more mocha flavored hot chocolate than coffee.
But judging from that first debate between Mitt and O-Boogy Man…..I would say that Mitt fell off the wagon. In fact…I’d say he knocked back a couple of Red Bulls as well. I’ve never seen a candidate so manic. If he was truly caffeine sober…..then that dude is on meds for bi-polor disorder…..and he forgot to take them all the while he was having a manic moment. I never seen someone so desperate to say ANYTHING that made him look like the ANTI-O’BOOGY MAN….even if most of those things were either outright lies….half-truths…..or things he is not Constitutionally able to do….because it is the SOLE role and the right of Congress to do that thing…..not the President.
But thanks anyway for being concerned for my health and mental well being.
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Oh Danny, I don’t think you’re going to convince anyone not to vote.
I thought of you when I saw this prayer from Priests For Life, especially the bolded part:
O God, we acknowledge you today as Lord,
Not only of individuals, but of nations and governments.
We thank you for the privilege
Of being able to organize ourselves politically
And of knowing that political loyalty
Does not have to mean disloyalty to you.
We thank you for your law,
Which our Founding Fathers acknowledged
And recognized as higher than any human law.
We thank you for the opportunity that this election
year puts before us,
To exercise our solemn duty not only to vote,
But to influence countless others to vote,
And to vote correctly.
Lord, we pray that your people may be awakened.
Let them realize that while politics is not their salvation,
Their response to you requires that they be politically active.
Awaken your people to know that they are
not called to be a sect fleeing the world
But rather a community of faith renewing the world.
Awaken them that the same hands lifted up to you in prayer
Are the hands that pull the lever in the voting booth;
That the same eyes that read your Word
Are the eyes that read the names on the ballot,
And that they do not cease to be Christians
When they enter the voting booth.
Awaken your people to a commitment to justice
To the sanctity of marriage and the family,
To the dignity of each individual human life,
And to the truth that human rights begin when human lives begin,
And not one moment later.
Lord, we rejoice today
That we are citizens of your kingdom.
May that make us all the more committed
To being faithful citizens on earth.
We ask this through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.
http://www.priestsforlife.org/novenas/election-day-novena.htm
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Lrning…..
I’m not trying to convince anyone to do anything….including not voting.
I’m trying to convince a few that America has failed….as it is abundantly clear and many of you know deep down in your heart of hearts but are too afraid to admit it.
Partly because you don’t have any answers to what to do…other than compromise your principles in the voting booth.
Perhaps it’s because of the ramifications of the fact that if Christians are to be the “salt” that preserves a culture and a “light” to the world…..and yet America is rotting to the core and cloaked in darkness and has been for decades…..what does that say about either the number of Christians who simply call themselves that and are not……or the effectiveness of the ones who really are?
But here is the most uncomfortable truth of all….and it is born out and proven to be true over countless millenia……
Freedom has only been won through and preserved by bloodshed…..
Religious Reformation has only been achieved by the bloodshed of those trying to reform the corrupt religious system of that time…..
And finally….when a culture and / or nation institutes infanticide as national and / or religious law……that nation or culture has always ended in the dust bin of history through….(you should have guess it by now)……bloodshed….(including…many times….subjugation).
America will be no different.
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Let them realize that while politics is not their salvation,
Their response to you requires that they be politically active.
Awaken your people to know that they are
not called to be a sect fleeing the world
But rather a community of faith renewing the world.
Really lrning…..as a Protestant (Church of England now….born and raised Southern Baptist) what could I possibly care what Catholic Priests have to say about politics? The history of the Reformation…..the DISUNITING of church and state…..ahem…CATHOLIC church and state…… is red with the blood spilled from Protestants. And yes…even my own Church of England has blood on its hands when persecuting other Protestant sects when they did not preach or follow the dictates of the Arch Bishop of Cantebury or would not necessarily follow the dictates of the King.
But it is wholly laughable to say that a response to God requires me to be politically active. That statement is not validated by any Scripture in the entire Bible….nor the Apocrypha….nor does there exist any text in ANY of the Founding Documents that compels me to vote in order to have a proper response to God.
No surprising to see that kind of thinking from a cult that professes the eternal virginity of Mary….amongst SO many other false teachings only designed to do one thing…..consolidate power in the hands of a corrupt and discredted institution which has done more to sully the name of the True Church….and Christ Jesus Himself than any other.
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Again there is a distinction between a newborn and an unborn. The newborn CAN be handed to someone else. A baby that is only ten minutes old (that is detached from the mother) does NOT AUTOMATICALLY DIE if the mother dies. In fact, MANY babies have survived after mothers perished very soon after childbirth. OTOH, if a 4 months pregnant woman dies, the chances of saving the unborn is — currently — zero.
A newborn can’t always just be handed off to someone else. Trust me. I used to live in the woods, 30 miles to the nearest hospital either way on the main highway, with no car of my own. If something would’ve happened to me after my youngest was born (my then-husband was deployed in the Army at the time), he wouldn’t have made it. Also, sometimes this happens: http://www.pregnancy.org/blog/baby-delivered-alive-after-pregnant-mom-dies-in-car-accident
IMO, there are 2 different things going on here. I’ve talked to women who simply don’t believe that an embryo or fetus (at least in the early stages) is a human life. They view it as something like a blueprint FOR a human being. This is especially true if she has a 1st trimester abortion. Whoopi Goldberg emphasized that she aborted early in the pregnancy. She didn’t regard it as a baby but as “stuff coming together” to make a baby. Billie Jean King commented that her abortion was “early enough in the pregnancy that I didn’t feel like I was destroying life.” My friend Eleanor Cooney was at the beginning of her 2nd trimester but still didn’t believe the fetus was a baby. She thinks it is “a matter of development and sentience.”
The above reflects their beliefs, not mine.
That’s just ignorance. So, I guess more education about human development and embryology are needed. *shrug*
The 2nd matter has to do with the specifics of the condition of pregnancy. Cooney believes brain chemicals fail to activate to allow women to accept the conditions of pregnancy. That is why her attitude toward “completing the pregnancy” was “no way.” They simply find the physical changes of pregnancy intolerable so they are compelled to just STOP the process.
and that’s just insanity. It needs to be treated, not facilitated.
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I’ve talked to women who simply don’t believe that an embryo or fetus (at least in the early stages) is a human life. They view it as something like a blueprint FOR a human being. This is especially true if she has a 1st trimester abortion. Whoopi Goldberg emphasized that she aborted early in the pregnancy. She didn’t regard it as a baby but as “stuff coming together” to make a baby. Billie Jean King commented that her abortion was “early enough in the pregnancy that I didn’t feel like I was destroying life.” My friend Eleanor Cooney was at the beginning of her 2nd trimester but still didn’t believe the fetus was a baby. She thinks it is “a matter of development and sentience.” The above reflects their beliefs, not mine. xalisae: That’s just ignorance. So, I guess more education about human development and embryology are needed. *shrug*
(Denise) As I said, that is their belief, not mine. Rita Morena talked about her illegal abortion that was done very early in the pregnancy. She asked the doctor to show her what he had removed. He showed her a pink tiny formless circle that was so small it fit on his forefinger. It bore no relationship to a baby — to the naked eye. I hazard to guess that if Rita Moreno had looked at that tiny pink circle through a HIGH POWERED MICROSCOPE, she would have seen the “buds” of limbs. I’ve often said that we could reduce abortion by forcing girls and women contemplating abortion to view photographs of embryos or fetuses. We could force blind girls and women to listen to detailed descriptions of what the embryo or fetus looks like and capacities such as heartbeat and brainwave.
However, I believe the true solution to abortion is preventing problem pregnancies in the first place. No one, man or woman, has ever keeled over and died from lack of partnered sex. Decreasing sexual activity is the primary way to combat abortion.
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I’ve often said that we could reduce abortion by forcing girls and women contemplating abortion to view photographs of embryos or fetuses. We could force blind girls and women to listen to detailed descriptions of what the embryo or fetus looks like and capacities such as heartbeat and brainwave.
Nah. I’ll just become a high school science teacher. That will solve the problem. ^_^
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Denise, excuse me if this too personal, you once asked or implied that I may be asexual (when I was supporting celibacy for religious people), but I am now wondering if you might be asexual?
Perhaps you can elaborate on your point of view.
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Tyler says:
October 17, 2012 at 10:49 am
Denise, excuse me if this too personal, you once asked or implied that I may be asexual (when I was supporting celibacy for religious people), but I am now wondering if you might be asexual?
Perhaps you can elaborate on your point of view.
(Denise) No, I’m far from asexual.
A few years ago I became interested in both asexuality and the anti-sexual philosophy. People tend to assume that EVERYONE has sexual feelings and/or romantic yearnings. Like many assumptions, this one is false. A study showed that 1-3% of the population doesn’t have them. Even if it is just 1%, that is still many people. I have a close friend who is asexual. I used to have another asexual friend but lost track of her.
A myth about asexuals is that they tend to be religious. They don’t. Neither of these women is particularly religious.
I visited a website called “The Anti-sexual Stronghold” and made friends with founder Yuri Nesterenko. Yuri is a hardcore atheist. He believes that sexuality places passions above rationality. He accepts the minimal amount of sexual contact necessary to maintain population (at least until non-sexual reproduction is developed).
I don’t share the anti-sexual POV but am sympathetic to the ideal of placing rationality above passions.
I take a multi-pronged approach to decreasing pregnancies, valuing contraception but placing greatest emphasis on decreasing sexual contact. Premature and promiscuous sexuality is responsible for multiple ills.
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