Top Ten 2013: Stanek’s most commented posts
Always fascinating, comments to posts often delve away from the original topic. It may not be the post itself that triggers high reader response but the readers themselves. Here were the most commented posts of 2013.
Thanks again to Kelli for researching these stats.
10. ABQ 20-week abortion ban proponents: We’ll be back (November 20; 221 comments)
9. Stanek weekend question II: Should photo of teen mom holding son be banned from yearbook? (May 4; 222 comments)
8. Stanek weekend question: Is it acceptable to out the mother or father of one’s aborted child? (June 1; 224 comments)
7. Stanek (early) weekend question: Are pro-life marches a waste of time? (February 1; 228 comments)
6. Pro-abortion NAACP claims Zimmerman violated Trayvon’s right to life (July 15; 238 comments)
5. Stanek weekend question: Women get abortions every day, so it’s okay? (November 23; 239 comments)
4. Breaking: Carhart’s victims identified (February 10; 264 comments)
3. Stanek Sunday funnies 12-22-13 (December 22; 353 comments)
2. Clinic escort mom blogs about helping daughter get an abortion (September 17; 380 comments)
1. Alternative “Mama’s Day” ecards feature gay, transgendered, incarcerated parents (May 13; 548 comments)
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
“Always fascinating, comments to posts often delve away from the original topic. It may not be the post itself that triggers high reader response but the readers themselves ”
Lol. There’s an understatement.
It’s all your fault ADLP ;-)
Everything is either mine or Obama’s fault. No exceptions.
Obama never did anything wrong. He says so himself, and he should know.
You know, if I were a pro-lifer, I don’t think I would want to support the policies of Barack Obama or any liberal, or even joke about doing so, because the right to life is… Well, kind of important. At least to pro-lifers, it should be.
Obama’s anti-life policies are not a joke. But go ahead. Laugh it up with the pro-aborts and align yourself with them on everything else. I just hope that one day it doesn’t come back to bite you in the *ss.
Where do you get I support Obama? I didn’t vote for him and I don’t think I’ve ever voted for a pro-choicer ever.
I seriously was just kidding.
I don’t think I have to be conservative in every single view to be pro-life. I don’t see how I’m allying with pro-aborts by having some liberal views. It doesn’t make you a pro-abort to be pro-universal healthcare or whatever. I do not get what you expect me to do.
You don’t. But all the joking about Obama gets to me, especially here, when the author of this blog personally testified before Obama regarding infants born alive after abortions… and all some people can do is joke.
This man has zero respect for innocent human life, but yeah, let’s mock the people who believe Obama and the liberals’ policies are a problem. Because clearly THEY’RE the ones who are messed up.
I wasn’t mocking people who think Obama is a problem… I PERSONALLY think Obama is a problem. I was mocking the certain percentage of people who think that Obama is responsible for things he clearly had no part in. When Bush was in office I made fun of the people who thought the same thing about him. Because it’s stupid.
People are currently making Obama jokes on the Sunday Funnies thread, I’m sure you won’t yell at them though. Just me.
I am not constantly trolling threads, actually, so I haven’t seen those comments.I didn’t “yell at” anyone, Jack. I’m just expressing my opinion about how I feel when pro-lifers mock other pro-lifers for their disdain for Obama, when our disdain for Obama is well-placed.
Yeah, ‘cos obama is so dang evil.
Reagan was not as obsessive about anti-abortion legislation as he often seemed. Early in his California governorship he had signed a permissive abortion bill that has resulted in more than a million abortions. Afterward, he inaccurately blamed this outcome on doctors, saying that they had deliberately misinterpreted the law. When Reagan ran for president, he won backing from pro-life forces by advocating a constitutional amendment that would have prohibited all abortions except when necessary to save the life of the mother. Reagan’s stand was partly a product of political calculation, as was his tactic after he was elected of addressing the annual pro-life rally held in Washington by telephone so that he would not be seen with the leaders of the movement on the evening news.
Remind me, which GOP president has stopped abortion?
“I’m just expressing my opinion about how I feel when pro-lifers mock other pro-lifers for their disdain for Obama, when our disdain for Obama is well-placed. ”
I think you misunderstood my joke, I wasn’t clear so that’s probably my bad. You remember Castro? You know how much Cuban-Americans hate him? Completely justified, he absolutely destroyed the Cuban middle class and basically chased out of the country/imprisoned/killed a lot of them, including the portion of my family who ended up in the US. Cuban-Americans (and everyone else) definitely should disdain Castro. What they shouldn’t do is blame him for things that he clearly was never involved in or responsible for. Which they do, a lot. It makes the legitimate complaints look ridiculous when they are drowned out by fanciful conspiracy theory stuff. Those types were the only Obama-blamers I was teasing. Not people who have legitimate gripes with his policies (like his abortion and PP-pimping, or other absurd and dangerous policies he’s enacted). I doubt you and I even differ on most of the things we dislike Obama for, the only one I can think we radically differ on is the ACA (which has provisions I don’t even remotely support, like the HHS mandate for contraceptives, etc). I’ve always been clear about what I think about Obama, so I think it’s weird if you think that it’s wrong to dislike his administration and his policies.
Does that make more sense? It really was just a throwaway joke that wasn’t directed at most people who disagree with Obama, who have reasonable, valid criticisms.
I do wish people could give me the benefit of the doubt sometimes.
Reality, I would think it would be hard to recognize evil when it’s just par for the course in one’s way of thinking. Hmmmmm???
The fact that you seem to think a President can “stop abortion” must mean you and Obama have the same dictatorial view of the executive branch of the United States government. :D
Well, he’s a moral relativist. I’m pretty sure you can get many moral relativists to justify nearly anything as long as it’s accepted in the social system they are in.
Reality, I would think it would be hard to recognize evil when it’s just par for the course in one’s way of thinking. Hmmmmm??? – I wouldn’t know. Is that your area of expertise?
The fact that you seem to think a President can “stop abortion” must mean you and Obama have the same dictatorial view of the executive branch of the United States government. – so why the constant critiicism of him about it? And what was all the ‘we must support romney’ bluster all about during the election? Wasted breath?
so why the constant critiicism of him about it? And what was all the ‘we must support romney’ bluster all about during the election? Wasted breath?
The president can use the “bully pulpit” to advocate for the unborn (or speak at Planned Parenthood events). He can also sign anti-abortion (or pro-abortion) legislation after it passes through congress, veto unfriendly legislation, and designate foreign aid money away from (or to) Planned Parenthood via the Mexico City Policy. Perhaps most importantly, he can appoint Supreme Court justices (which stay on the bench until death or retirement) that are likely to vote in favour of overturning Roe v. Wade (or upholding it). The Supreme Court also determines whether state and federal pro-life legislation is allowed to go into effect.
But I suppose he can’t press a magic button to “stop abortion”, so we ought to be indifferent as to which person occupies the White House.
I can’t see why a president would act against the will of the majority of those who supported him with their vote Navi.
So you want activist judges rather than ones who interpret and judge the law in an unbiased manner?
“indifferent” – don’t hold your breath :-)
“So you want activist judges rather than ones who interpret and judge the law in an unbiased manner?”
So if the court were to decide that prior justices did not interpret the constitution properly (which I don’t believe they did), and overturned Roe v Wade, that’s “activism”? Did you think the same when stuff like the Dred Scott decision was overturned? SCOTUS was wrong in the past and they are wrong about this too.
You’re making a pre-judgement there LDPL :-)
I didn’t know you had studied law.
The first overturning or the second?
What prejudgment did I make?
I have never studied anything! Officially at least.
Why do you never answer a question straightforward??? Lol. I remembered why I never argue abortion with you anymore. Why would it be “activism” automatically if Roe v Wade got overturned, instead of justices deciding that a mistake had been made or whatever?
That the constitution wasn’t interpreted properly.
Why do you never answer a question straightforward??? – well that’s not accurate.
Why would it be “activism” automatically if Roe v Wade got overturned – I didn’t say it would necessarily be so. My comment was in response to Navi saying a president could appoint judges on the basis of them being likely to vote a particular way.
In my opinion the constitution was interpreted incorrectly. Are all opinions presuppositions?
I know I was just joking about your tendency to be very vague at times, if that’s the right word.
“I didn’t say it would necessarily be so. My comment was in response to Navi saying a president could appoint judges on the basis of them being likely to vote a particular way. ”
I don’t really know what you mean. Would you have zero problem if SCOTUS only had nominees appointed by conservative presidents? Why or why not?
I didn’t say presupposition now did I LDPL? I said pre-judgement.
Vague? Vague? Me? How dare you!
Navi’s comment indicated – to me at least – that it might be a good idea if presidents specifically appointed judges they selected on the basis of them being likely to make judgements in accordance with that president’s thinking. I don’t think that is a good idea.
So so all opinions are pre-judgement?
Now don’t you start gettin mad at me too.
In regards to SCOTUS, do you really think it’s possible for human beings to have zero bias? I’ve heard it said that “one man’s activist judge is another man’s unbiased, fair judge” lol, I think that’s somewhat applicable. But anyway, there are plenty of people, including people who aren’t particularly pro-life, who think that Roe v WAde was a shoddy decision legally, and not exactly constitutional. I do think a liberal judge might have the bias to overlook that.
So so all opinions are pre-judgement? - no, only if you are pre-judging a judges jusdgement against what your opinion judges that judgement should be.
Now don’t you start gettin mad at me too. – hah, discrimination now!
In regards to SCOTUS, do you really think it’s possible for human beings to have zero bias? – in regard to some matters yes, but not in all cases. But a judge should park their bias and focus on the legal imperatives.
I’ve heard it said that “one man’s activist judge is another man’s unbiased, fair judge” lol, I think that’s somewhat applicable. – agreed. That’s why there is supposedly an attempt to reach ‘balance’ in the appointments.
But anyway, there are plenty of people, including people who aren’t particularly pro-life, who think that Roe v WAde was a shoddy decision legally, and not exactly constitutional. I do think a liberal judge might have the bias to overlook that. – I don’t feel qualified to judge :-)
“So so all opinions are pre-judgement? - no, only if you are pre-judging a judges judgement against what your opinion judges that judgement should be.”
Yeah I couldn’t parse that. Take pity on me lol.
“Now don’t you start gettin mad at me too. – hah, discrimination now!”
Fine you be angry too.
“In regards to SCOTUS, do you really think it’s possible for human beings to have zero bias? – in regard to some matters yes, but not in all cases. But a judge should park their bias and focus on the legal imperatives.”
I really don’t think interpretation can ever be completely free of bias. The very act of “interpretation” demands someone is putting at least a little of their own opinion.
“I’ve heard it said that “one man’s activist judge is another man’s unbiased, fair judge” lol, I think that’s somewhat applicable. – agreed. That’s why there is supposedly an attempt to reach ‘balance’ in the appointments.”
Why would that be bad if we had conservative judges too? You certainly need them for balance. If you stack it with liberals there could be issues, not the least of them abortion remains legal forever.
Yeah I couldn’t parse that. Take pity on me lol. – there are some folks who need a whole lot more pity than you do LDPL ;-)
Fine you be angry too. – only if it makes you happy :-)
Dunno if I can do anger and pity at the same time.
I really don’t think interpretation can ever be completely free of bias. The very act of “interpretation” demands someone is putting at least a little of their own opinion. – if it’s a subject they don’t really care much about they won’t apply bias. The ‘opinion’ they apply is their interpretation of the law, supposedly based on their judicial experience. That opinion can be biased or unbiased.
Why would that be bad if we had conservative judges too? You certainly need them for balance. – they are already there.
If you stack it with liberals there could be issues, not the least of them abortion remains legal forever. – which it will. Apart from a few drooling wannabe dictators, I don’t think the most senior judiciary want to see R v W overturned until there is something in place to preserve womens rights in regard to reproductive choices.
“Apart from a few drooling wannabe dictators, I don’t think the most senior judiciary want to see R v W overturned until there is something in place to preserve womens rights in regard to reproductive choices.”
Nah, I think the dictators generally want to classify a group of people as “non-people” in order to discriminate against and kill with impunity. Sound familiar. :)
“if it’s a subject they don’t really care much about they won’t apply bias. The ‘opinion’ they apply is their interpretation of the law, supposedly based on their judicial experience. That opinion can be biased or unbiased.”
Uh huh. I don’t buy it. Everybody has bias and if we’re interpreting anything, bias will creep in. “Judicial experience” obviously influences different justices differently.
I’m going to be happy when the court is stacked with a couple conservatives and many liberals that don’t automatically view unborn babies as nonentities. Which is the only real way abortion works as legality, if the unborn aren’t viewed as humans at all.
Reality can I get you to agree to your own hypothetical killing like I did with I think it was Doug, once? That was amusing.
If you go to a doctor and they say “it’s x” and you decide to see another doctor to get a ‘second opinion’, what do you think that opinion is based on? Personal bias, or their interpretation and understanding of medical science within their realm of experience?
Hm, what is the purpose of my hypothetical killing?
Oh, I don’t know, say you and another person (we can say it’s your mother for the purposes of the hypothetical) are crash landed on a desert island, and you become temporarily disabled. Say, unable to care for yourself for nine or ten months, even. And your mother is like “you know what, I don’t want to do this” and she doesn’t want to provide you with the basic nutrition and care it would take you to survive. I can’t think of a single reason, under your life’s philosophy, why she would be morally obligated to not let you die/kill you.
“If you go to a doctor and they say “it’s x” and you decide to see another doctor to get a ‘second opinion’, what do you think that opinion is based on? Personal bias, or their interpretation and understanding of medical science within their realm of experience?”
Yeah, but if the two doctors have different opinions (say I have cancer, and one doctor thinks it’s inoperable and I should just go on comfort care and die, and the other thinks that I could be operated on), their different opinions are based on something. One doctor might be just less skilled than the other, and doesn’t see a way to save me, while the other may have more experience and skill and thus could save me. Same with justices, I guess. Some could just be limited (like the ones who think that abortion is constitutional) and others can see the truth!
Neither can I. In fact it would make sense. The only difference is that I would know, a fetus doesn’t.
Your response to the doctor hypothesis appears to follow what I’ve been trying to say. They base their medical opinion on their knowledge and skill, not bias. Bias would be if one of them said “I don’t believe we should operate on people with cancer, it’s nature’s way of saying toodle-oo.”
Same goes for the judiciary. They apply their legal opinion, but sometimes bias creeps in.
Some could just be limited (like the ones who think that abortion is constitutional) and others can see the truth! – now you are demonstrating bias.
“Neither can I. In fact it would make sense.”
See? This is why I don’t get why anyone bothers arguing abortion with you, you can’t even see that adult, non-attached humans have a social and moral obligation to, you know, not cause other people’s deaths if they can help it. Much less a tiny baby that’s still living in mom. It’s a very selfish philosophy you got, in a way. Individuality is more important than actual individuals, in your mind?
My death makes sense in the context of your desert island scenario LDPL.
You give a gestating fetus greater value than adult, non-attached humans. I don’t see the sense in that. I think putting an unknown quantity ahead of a known quantity is selfish.
I’m off to seek out the land of nod, night.
Navi’s comment indicated – to me at least – that it might be a good idea if presidents specifically appointed judges they selected on the basis of them being likely to make judgements in accordance with that president’s thinking. I don’t think that is a good idea.
I didn’t say I thought it was a good idea, Reality, but it is the way your judicial system works. Franklin D. Roosevelt (after his failed attempt to reform the Supreme Court) looked for “thumping, evangelical New Dealer[s]” that would uphold his policies. Bill Clinton promised to appoint pro-Roe justices. The senate rejected Robert Bork (despite his impeccable credentials) largely because they thought he was anti-Roe (this happened in the days before fact-checkers, when you could get away with stuff like this). Clarence Thomas was also put under heavy scrutiny for this reason. More subtly, presidential candidates from both parties (Obama, Romney, W. Bush) name specific justices that they want their appointments to emulate (which becomes part of their political campaigns). As long as the Supreme Court has the kind of power that it does, it’s probably inevitable that presidents select judges based on their positions on critical issues.
“My death makes sense in the context of your desert island scenario LDPL.”
I know you think that, and that makes me sad. Your life has intrinsic value, even if you can’t care for yourself and your mother/father/whoever doesn’t want to. Your otherwise preventable death would be tragic even if it meant your mother got her “freedom”. I think it’s sad that your worldview precludes human beings (and animals, though I know most of my fellow pro-lifers don’t agree with that) having the right to have their lives protected if at all possible (except in scenarios where they choose to forgo life-sustaining treatment such as end-stage cancer, etc, I do believe that’s a personal choice).
“You give a gestating fetus greater value than adult, non-attached humans. I don’t see the sense in that. I think putting an unknown quantity ahead of a known quantity is selfish.”
I don’t give gestating fetuses higher value than born people. I give their lives higher value than born people’s wants. Like I told you before, my mother didn’t want me to live either before I was born or after, but I had the right not to be killed. Her and I have equal value. It may be selfish in a way (though less so than pro-choice values, at least pro-lifers are already born and our lives are not currently in danger), but it does place human life on an equal footing.
Hope you slept well!
I don’t think there is a pro-lifer who wouldn’t grieve, Reality, if your life was thrown away like in my little scenario I concocted, or in any other way. I know you think that a lot of pro-lifers are just about control and aren’t sincere, but it’s not true. All of us (even the people who get mad at you and pick on you lol), would be very unhappy if your life was taken from you or if you weren’t cared for properly when you needed help. Whether you were a fetus or a man in his fifties when it happened. :)
The fact that my death would make sense in the context of your desert island scenario doesn’t preclude the possibility that my life may have some intrinsic value or that my death may be tragic LDPL.
A fetus isn’t known, it doesn’t know anyone, it doesn’t feel, it doesn’t think. If it is terminated it still won’t know, feel or think anything. Women are and do.
I slept very well, thank you Jack. I hope you slept well when you did so.
I don’t think there is a pro-lifer who wouldn’t grieve, Reality, if your life was thrown away like in my little scenario I concocted, or in any other way. – maybe through gritted teeth. And some would probably claim that I’ve already ‘thrown my life away’ :-)
I know you think that a lot of pro-lifers are just about control and aren’t sincere, but it’s not true. – of course they want control, they want to force others to live their lives in the way that they deem ‘correct’. I don’t doubt the sincerity of many of them though.
All of us would be very unhappy if your life was taken from you or if you weren’t cared for properly when you needed help. Whether you were a fetus or a man in his fifties when it happened – you are a generous person.
“The fact that my death would make sense in the context of your desert island scenario doesn’t preclude the possibility that my life may have some intrinsic value or that my death may be tragic LDPL.”
I don’t think your death would make sense, it would be senseless! A temporary disability or inability to care for yourself, when there is someone around (especially your own parent) who can care for you, should not result in death.
“A fetus isn’t known, it doesn’t know anyone, it doesn’t feel, it doesn’t think. If it is terminated it still won’t know, feel or think anything. Women are and do.”
A newborn basically meets these criteria as well. Not buying it. :)
“I slept very well, thank you Jack. I hope you slept well when you did so.”
I rarely sleep more than a couple hours! I am in an excellent mood though. :)
“maybe through gritted teeth. And some would probably claim that I’ve already ‘thrown my life away’ ”
“Gritted teeth” lol. I think it’s a rare person who genuinely throws their life away. Even my father, who was objectively an awful human being, did some good in his life. I wouldn’t be alive if he hadn’t deemed it so (though his motives were wrong, my life is a good thing). You raised a decent kid and I’m sure you’ve positively affected many people. You unfortunately refuse to consider the unborn and you are fine with their deaths. I still have hope you’ll have an epiphany and include them in your quest to defend people’s rights and freedoms. I think you’d argue great for the pro-life side.
“of course they want control, they want to force others to live their lives in the way that they deem ‘correct’. I don’t doubt the sincerity of many of them though.”
We want control in the same way we want people “controlled” into not putting cigarettes out on their five-year-old’s legs. I certainly have no wish to legally control what people do when it doesn’t cause objective, serious harm to innocent humans. Even if I’m not too fond of some “victimless” choices.
“All of us would be very unhappy if your life was taken from you or if you weren’t cared for properly when you needed help. Whether you were a fetus or a man in his fifties when it happened – you are a generous person.”
It’s true though! Pro-life even applies to you old guard pro-aborts. :)
(I’m trying this whole positive reinforcement thing, build people up instead of down). :)
I don’t think your death would make sense, it would be senseless! A temporary disability or inability to care for yourself, when there is someone around (especially your own parent) who can care for you, should not result in death. – I wouldn’t want to place someone else at undue risk given that being stuck on a desert island makes it difficult enough to survive without having to commit scarce resources.
A newborn basically meets these criteria as well. – indeed. Do we need to discuss the gamut of peoples emotional responses towards fetuses, infants, children, youths and adults.
Not buying it. – the facts speak for themselves.
I rarely sleep more than a couple hours! – I know how that is. I am in an excellent mood though. – glad to hear it :-)
I think it’s a rare person who genuinely throws their life away. – some people think that not embracing a belief in a god is throwing your life away.
You raised a decent kid – thank you, I do believe his mother and I did.
and I’m sure you’ve positively affected many people. – my aim is to drop a bit of positive into the lives of all those I come to know.
You unfortunately refuse to consider the unborn and you are fine with their deaths. – I do consider them. I just find that women warrant greater consideration.
I still have hope you’ll have an epiphany and include them in your quest to defend people’s rights and freedoms. – not ahead of those of the persons who already exist.
I think you’d argue great for the pro-life side. – if there was enough for me to work with I might already be there, but there isn’t.
It’s true though! Pro-life even applies to you old guard pro-aborts. – I am pro-life, just in a rational way ;-) What’s the difference between an old guard pro-choicer and a new guard one?
(I’m trying this whole positive reinforcement thing, build people up instead of down). – good stuff. Wouldn’t it be nice if certain other folk followed your example.
“I wouldn’t want to place someone else at undue risk given that being stuck on a desert island makes it difficult enough to survive without having to commit scarce resources. ”
What type of “undue risk”? Working construction or other jobs is risky physically, people are still expected to work and provide for their children. Other jobs are mentally risky, like working in healthcare and such. People take risks all the time, and are expected to, to care for their own children.
Now if you were awake and disabled and you were like “no mom, don’t feed me” that might be one thing, but if you were insensate temporarily it would be in no way justifiable to me to not care for you unless your mother was aware of some DNR or living will situation that stipulated you didn’t want to be cared for. But the unborn can’t make that decision no more than small children can, so they shouldn’t be willingly killed just because they can’t talk yet.
“indeed. Do we need to discuss the gamut of peoples emotional responses towards fetuses, infants, children, youths and adults.”
It’s not about emotions. I have no emotional attachment to some random infant besides thinking it looks like an adorable alien, but that doesn’t mean that infant doesn’t deserve life. Worth doesn’t depend on how people feel about you, otherwise I had no worth until I was like, twelve or something.
“Not buying it. – the facts speak for themselves.”
Facts, your personal philosophy, what’s the difference. ;)
“I think it’s a rare person who genuinely throws their life away. – some people think that not embracing a belief in a god is throwing your life away.”
Well, yeah, some think that. I personally think I believe in God but am convinced he doesn’t like me. Ha. But I don’t know how that’s relevant. Most Christians seem to just hope everyone converts at the last moment if they didn’t do so before, only a few crazies are happy about people burning.
“You unfortunately refuse to consider the unborn and you are fine with their deaths. – I do consider them. I just find that women warrant greater consideration.”
Yeah, and all the aborted female fetuses you don’t think deserve protection will never grow to become women. What do you think about the massive amounts of sex selection in Asian countries and among some groups in the US. Some people even abort boys for being boys, though that’s generally just an individual thing, instead of the culturally getting rid of girls thing.
“I still have hope you’ll have an epiphany and include them in your quest to defend people’s rights and freedoms. – not ahead of those of the persons who already exist.”
The unborn do exist. Just because you don’t consider them ‘people’ doesn’t make them not exist.
“It’s true though! Pro-life even applies to you old guard pro-aborts. – I am pro-life, just in a rational way What’s the difference between an old guard pro-choicer and a new guard one?”
You’re only pro-life for people after a certain point in their lives. The difference is that you’re old (;)) and that there are a lot more young pro-lifers than young pro-choicers. Seriously, my generation is leaning far more my way than yours. Step aside, old man. :D
“(I’m trying this whole positive reinforcement thing, build people up instead of down). – good stuff. Wouldn’t it be nice if certain other folk followed your example.”
There are plenty of people who are very nice here. They just aren’t nice to you because you deliberately push points you know will get them going lol. When people aren’t nice to me it’s either because I deserve it because I’ve been rude or they don’t like my other viewpoints.
What type of “undue risk”? – crash landed on a desert island remember. Not in a city, with facilities.
but if you were insensate temporarily it would be in no way justifiable to me to not care for you – actually it would be nigh on impossible if I was insensate. Are you going to seek out food for two and then chew mine for me?
they shouldn’t be willingly killed just because they can’t talk yet. – there’s a whole lot more than just talking that they aren’t capable of.
It’s not about emotions. – it is. It’s a bit of an oversimplification but we have different levels or balances of emotional attachement to fetuses and women.
Facts, your personal philosophy, what’s the difference. – so do you dispute that a fetus isn’t known, it doesn’t know anyone, it doesn’t feel, it doesn’t think. If it is terminated it still won’t know, feel or think anything. Women are and do?
Yeah, and all the aborted female fetuses you don’t think deserve protection will never grow to become women. – but why ruin the lives of the women who are here?
What do you think about the massive amounts of sex selection in Asian countries and among some groups in the US. – ‘sex selection’ in a broader context isn’t just perpetrated by abortion or infanticide.
You’re only pro-life for people after a certain point in their lives. – that simply isn’t true. My pro-life position just has a different emphasis than yours.
The difference is that you’re old (;)) and that there are a lot more young pro-lifers than young pro-choicers. – ‘professed’ pro-lifers. Until the need arises.
Seriously, my generation is leaning far more my way than yours. – so it may seem. But things aren’t always what they appear.
Step aside, old man. – with a jump to the left or a step to the right?
They just aren’t nice to you because you deliberately push points you know will get them going lol. – or is it a case of them not being nice by deliberately pushing points they know will get me going?
When people aren’t nice to me it’s either because I deserve it because I’ve been rude or they don’t like my other viewpoints. – not quite, they think you deserve it or claim you have been rude because they don’t like your other viewpoints.
“but if you were insensate temporarily it would be in no way justifiable to me to not care for you – actually it would be nigh on impossible if I was insensate. Are you going to seek out food for two and then chew mine for me?”
Lol, I’m bad at coming up with thought experiments. I think a better example would be if someone was attached to someone else, requiring no extreme measures (in the vast majority of cases) to feed and take care of that extra person. Not justifiable to be like “meh” and just cut that person off and let them die (or rip them apart to make sure they die like in abortion, even when they could survive without you as it is in post-viability abortion).
“It’s not about emotions. – it is. It’s a bit of an oversimplification but we have different levels or balances of emotional attachement to fetuses and women.”
So what, some people aren’t loved. Some of us are much, much less loved than others. That doesn’t mean that people who aren’t cared about or people don’t have emotional attachment towards don’t deserve to live. And, as you can see on this website, there are a lot of people who have the same emotional attachment to unborn babies as born ones, and adults.
“Facts, your personal philosophy, what’s the difference. – so do you dispute that a fetus isn’t known, it doesn’t know anyone, it doesn’t feel, it doesn’t think. If it is terminated it still won’t know, feel or think anything. Women are and do?”
Nah, that’s accurate to a point. I don’t think there’s good evidence that a baby at eight weeks from conception can feel anything, though there is certainly some evidence to the contrary for later term babies. Women certainly can feel and think, of course. None of that = fetuses are disposable, though. THAT part is all you.
“Yeah, and all the aborted female fetuses you don’t think deserve protection will never grow to become women. – but why ruin the lives of the women who are here?”
Well I ruined my mom’s life, I guess, she tells people she has five kids instead of six (though if she was going to pretend one of us was never born she should have gone with my brother, he’s worse than me lol). I don’t think that means that I should have been terminated at any point though. People’s lives aren’t disposable even if other people feel like your life will “ruin” them. That’s a terrible philosophy. Nothing solid there.
“What do you think about the massive amounts of sex selection in Asian countries and among some groups in the US. – ‘sex selection’ in a broader context isn’t just perpetrated by abortion or infanticide.”
No, it’s a broader cultural attitude that is perpetrated by infanticide and abortion, they are the symptom of the problem. But I don’t see how you can have a problem with someone aborting a girl for being a girl. Isn’t that “mom’s body, mom’s choice”? Why would her reasoning matter to you?
“You’re only pro-life for people after a certain point in their lives. – that simply isn’t true. My pro-life position just has a different emphasis than yours.”
No, your position has a starting point, birth, and you focus on “quality” instead of actual life. You might care about a fetus is the mom is sad about him/her dying, but the baby itself isn’t important to you as an individual it seems to me.
“The difference is that you’re old (;)) and that there are a lot more young pro-lifers than young pro-choicers. – ‘professed’ pro-lifers. Until the need arises. Seriously, my generation is leaning far more my way than yours. – so it may seem. But things aren’t always what they appear.”
Well, abortion rate seems to be going lower, thought that’s quite hard to measure. And with the prevalence of information now, people see 3d ultrasounds and have access to information on fetal development easily. I do think that abortion will be reduced drastically in the next decade or so, even if we can’t manage to restrict or eliminate it legally.
“They just aren’t nice to you because you deliberately push points you know will get them going lol. – or is it a case of them not being nice by deliberately pushing points they know will get me going? ”
Meh, little from column A yada yada. I think most people have just gotten tired of arguing with you because you’ve been here for years. Everyone has heard it a million times lol, from you specifically.
“When people aren’t nice to me it’s either because I deserve it because I’ve been rude or they don’t like my other viewpoints. – not quite, they think you deserve it or claim you have been rude because they don’t like your other viewpoints.”
Sometimes. But I was reading some older threads and my tone was much nicer even when people were not being nice to me, like even six months ago. I just started to get my feelings hurt and react not nicely to some stuff. But I’m done with it. I’m going to be nice and positive even if people react badly to me. :D
I totally missed your RHPS reference, good show. Let’s do the time warp again.
if someone was attached to someone else, requiring no extreme measures – I think you are getting even further away from an analagous situation.
Some of us are much, much less loved than others. – and I love existent women more than I love gestating fetuses.
And, as you can see on this website, there are a lot of people who have the same emotional attachment to unborn babies as born ones, and adults. – yes, they have a greater emotional attachment to fetuses they cannot know than they do to the women they do.
None of that = fetuses are disposable, though. – women even less so.
People’s lives aren’t disposable even if other people feel like your life will “ruin” them. That’s a terrible philosophy. Nothing solid there. – you’re still putting a gestating fetus ahead of an existent woman.
But I don’t see how you can have a problem with someone aborting a girl for being a girl. Isn’t that “mom’s body, mom’s choice”? Why would her reasoning matter to you? – why would someone’s reasoning regarding a pregnancy which has nothing to do with you matter to you? Trying to prevent sex-selection by outlawing abortion won’t work, infanticide would simply increase. We need to create an environment where people do not feel that girls are of less value than boys.
No, your position has a starting point, birth, – it’s not that cut and dried.
and you focus on “quality” instead of actual life. – I would say ‘extent’ rather than ‘quality’.
Well, abortion rate seems to be going lower, thought that’s quite hard to measure. – yes, what are the true numbers for chemical abortion? Pregnancy rates have fallen haven’t they? And the number of unplanned pregnancies?
I think most people have just gotten tired of arguing with you because you’ve been here for years. – yeah well, having a clear run at delivering misinformation and propaganda isn’t something I can just stand back and watch.
Everyone has heard it a million times lol, from you specifically. – as I have from them :-)
my tone was much nicer even when people were not being nice to me, like even six months ago. I just started to get my feelings hurt and react not nicely to some stuff. – you’ve become more realistic and less accepting of maliciousness.
But I’m done with it. I’m going to be nice and positive even if people react badly to me. – that’ll annoy ’em even more :-)
Ah, I saw the film when it was first released and saw a stage production a few years later. I don’t have the soundtrack or film but do enjoy it as a bit of a cultural icon. Some people are fanatics about it.
“if someone was attached to someone else, requiring no extreme measures – I think you are getting even further away from an analagous situation.”
Pregnancy and childbirth isn’t extreme, it’s perfectly natural for all mammalian species. I think it’s weird that y’all act like it’s some crazy insane event. It’s really not.
“Some of us are much, much less loved than others. – and I love existent women more than I love gestating fetuses.”
So noted.
“And, as you can see on this website, there are a lot of people who have the same emotional attachment to unborn babies as born ones, and adults. – yes, they have a greater emotional attachment to fetuses they cannot know than they do to the women they do. ”
Nope, they have equal amounts of emotional attachment.
“People’s lives aren’t disposable even if other people feel like your life will “ruin” them. That’s a terrible philosophy. Nothing solid there. – you’re still putting a gestating fetus ahead of an existent woman. ”
Nope. I’m putting the fetus’s life on equal grounds with the woman’s life. Rather ahead of her wants, because I don’t believe anyone’s right to life is dependent on whether someone wants them.
“But I don’t see how you can have a problem with someone aborting a girl for being a girl. Isn’t that “mom’s body, mom’s choice”? Why would her reasoning matter to you? – why would someone’s reasoning regarding a pregnancy which has nothing to do with you matter to you? Trying to prevent sex-selection by outlawing abortion won’t work, infanticide would simply increase. We need to create an environment where people do not feel that girls are of less value than boys.”
Well, it obviously matters to me because people die from people reasoning them to be disposable. I do agree that culture is more important in a way than regulating means. You’ll also notice, though, that abortion made the gender gap far worse, Asian countries have long had male preference for multiple reasons and committed infanticide on female infants, but the gender gap didn’t get as bad until abortion became easily available along with ultrasound tech to find out the gender.
“No, your position has a starting point, birth, – it’s not that cut and dried.”
Uh huh, how so?
“and you focus on “quality” instead of actual life. – I would say ‘extent’ rather than ‘quality’.”
Eh?
“Well, abortion rate seems to be going lower, thought that’s quite hard to measure. – yes, what are the true numbers for chemical abortion? Pregnancy rates have fallen haven’t they? And the number of unplanned pregnancies?”
I’d be perfectly happy if there were zero unplanned pregnancies, no abortions except for possible live-saving ones, and no people raising children they don’t want and will treat poorly. It will get there, we will eventually have technology for much less user error prone birth control, hopefully hook up culture will reduce a bit or at least people will get better about protection.
“I think most people have just gotten tired of arguing with you because you’ve been here for years. – yeah well, having a clear run at delivering misinformation and propaganda isn’t something I can just stand back and watch.”
Ha, then you should hang out on animal rights blogs. They like me as much as some of my fellow pro-lifers do. I dislike false information, especially when it’s causes that I care deeply about, because it makes the genuine points get overlooked.
“my tone was much nicer even when people were not being nice to me, like even six months ago. I just started to get my feelings hurt and react not nicely to some stuff. – you’ve become more realistic and less accepting of maliciousness.”
No I think I just got mean. I need to be more accepting of people. And honestly, if everywhere I go people get mad at me, it’s obviously me, there’s only one constant!
“Ah, I saw the film when it was first released and saw a stage production a few years later. I don’t have the soundtrack or film but do enjoy it as a bit of a cultural icon. Some people are fanatics about it.”
I like the music a lot, and Susan Sarandon lol. I have never seen a live showing. I was not born when the film was released, too bad. Everything good was made before I was born, I swear.
Pregnancy and childbirth isn’t extreme – well it can be for a few ladies. The main point is that the life situation and environment of the woman can be extreme. The potential impacts may be as well.
So noted. – black ink or blue? Spiral notebook or spine stapled?
Nope, they have equal amounts of emotional attachment. – nope, that is not borne out.
Nope. I’m putting the fetus’s life on equal grounds with the woman’s life. – I give the impacts on a woman’s life a higher priority.
ultrasound tech to find out the gender. – isn’t that the procedure anti-choicers think every pregnant woman should be forced to go through?
Uh huh, how so? – When a pregnant woman wants to keep her fetus I offer any support and protection I can if it is required.
It will get there, we will eventually have technology for much less user error prone birth control – I think this is the only thing which will have any significant impact on the abortion rate.
I dislike false information…..because it makes the genuine points get overlooked. – ain’t that the truth!
No I think I just got mean. – no, you just got a little less less-mean than the others, if you get what I mean.
I need to be more accepting of people. – it’d be nice to see some others practice a bit of that towards you.
And honestly, if everywhere I go people get mad at me, it’s obviously me, there’s only one constant! – there is more stupid in the world than you seem to realise, that’s the constant. You must be hanging out in all the wrong places :-)
Everything good was made before I was born, I swear. – utter BS! Some things yes, many others, no.
“well it can be for a few ladies. The main point is that the life situation and environment of the woman can be extreme. The potential impacts may be as well. ”
Well anyone that would die bringing a child to birth should be able to abort if that’s what has to happen to preserve her life, in my way of thinking. Kill one to save one isn’t pretty, but it has to happen sometimes until medical science is perfection. I don’t care about “environment and life situation” (well I do, but not enough to think it’s okay that she kills her baby). I have had lived in exclusively crappy environments and situations and no babies should have been allowed to die to save me any of it, my comfort isn’t more important than someone’s life. Just like animals shouldn’t die to feed me. :)
“Nope, they have equal amounts of emotional attachment. – nope, that is not borne out.”
In your opinion. You think that not allowing the death of fetuses in most circumstances means that everyone like fetuses more than women, it’s not true, but I doubt I can convince you of that.
“Nope. I’m putting the fetus’s life on equal grounds with the woman’s life. – I give the impacts on a woman’s life a higher priority.”
Yep. “Your mom doesn’t want you, you might make her delay college for a year, off you go to the biohazard container little fetus!”. Not in my worldview.
“ultrasound tech to find out the gender. – isn’t that the procedure antichoicers think every pregnant woman should be forced to go through? ”
“Force” even though it’s medically recommended. It’s not our faults that abortion doctors are so shoddy they have to be mandated. :)
“Uh huh, how so? – When a pregnant woman wants to keep her fetus I offer any support and protection I can if it is required.”
Yeah, it’s about her. Not the fetus. You care about the fetus as much as the mother does. So, your care actually begins at birth. Kinda. We’ve had some disturbing conversations I don’t want to get into.
“It will get there, we will eventually have technology for much less user error prone birth control – I think this is the only thing which will have any significant impact on the abortion rate.”
I don’t think it’s the only thing. But it’s a hugely significant thing.
“I need to be more accepting of people. – it’d be nice to see some others practice a bit of that towards you”
Meh. The only place I fit is among thieves, drug dealers, and hookers. I haven’t ever got along well with normals. I think I need to change if I want people to like me. People might love me but people rarely like me for long !
“Everything good was made before I was born, I swear. – utter BS! Some things yes, many others, no. ”
I just think my generation is boring! I just saw American Hustle though, that’s a pretty good movie. You should go see it.
I don’t care about “environment and life situation” – you and I can’t judge how that impacts on others and what the outcome may be. It’s not simply a matter of ‘comfort’. At least as a vegetarian you are consistent.
everyone like fetuses more than women, it’s not true, but I doubt I can convince you of that. – your doubt is well founded.
off you go to the biohazard container little fetus!”. Not in my worldview. – nor should you have to. But your worldview shouldn’t prevail over that of others.
You care about the fetus as much as the mother does. So, your care actually begins at birth. – are you saying that women only care at birth?
The only place I fit is among thieves, drug dealers, and hookers. – not any more.
I haven’t ever got along well with normals. - oh yeah, and what’s a ‘normal’? Seen anyone around he you wish to emulate exactly?
I think I need to change if I want people to like me. – ***k ’em, let them change.
People might love me but people rarely like me for long ! – that’s not always a curse ;-)
I just think my generation is boring! – those with their heads stuck in technology rather than the world certainly can be.
I just saw American Hustle though, that’s a pretty good movie. – so I hear.
You should go see it. – I haven’t been to the movies in over two years. I’ve never been a keen movie-goer. The last time I went I saw ‘TT3D – Closer to the Edge’. I’ve since borrowed the movie from a friend to watch at home a couple of times. I could happily watch it on a weekly basis so I might buy it sometime. It’s brilliant. Sympatico.
“I don’t care about “environment and life situation” – you and I can’t judge how that impacts on others and what the outcome may be. It’s not simply a matter of ‘comfort’. At least as a vegetarian you are consistent. ”
Sure it’s about comfort, that’s what it boils down to for the vast majority of reasons. It’s more comfortable to be lower middle class than it is to be working poor, it’s more comfortable to get a college degree than be stuck working boring dead end jobs that make you wanna tear your hair out daily. Life can suck big time. Comfort isn’t a small thing, I know. But there are certain things you cannot do to attain a better level of life and one of those is kill babies (or animals but you meat eaters are a losing battle).
And we do decide that other people’s circumstances are not excuses for certain actions, every day. It may make my life immeasurably better to rob a bank and have a few more thousand bucks, but I can’t do that legally. Some people might find a good stress relief in beating their spouse, but they can’t do that either. Some things are not okay to do even if it makes our lives better or more comfortable.
“You care about the fetus as much as the mother does. So, your care actually begins at birth. – are you saying that women only care at birth? ”
No. Most normal women care about their unborn at some point during the pregnancy, some later than others. But you, as in Mr Reality, only care about the fetus as it pertains to how the mother feels. If she hates the thing, or doesn’t want it to be born, you’re okay with her killing it. The fetus isn’t an individual to you, your concern is on the mother. Therefor, you don’t care about humans as individuals until they are born.
“I haven’t ever got along well with normals. - oh yeah, and what’s a ‘normal’? Seen anyone around he you wish to emulate exactly?”
No one ever gets it! I think I missed some essential socialization when I was running around doing whatever shenanigans made me feel temporarily ok in my formative years. Even when I agree with people I don’t come across right. I can never explain it so people get it but it’s very alienating from polite society. There’s a reason people from the dregs tend to stay in the dregs, and it’s not just because we love drugs. It’s a completely different way of relating to the world and ALL of you take it for granted. It’s not just me, either, I’ve talked to others in my online abuse or drug addiction support group thingies who have the same issues. It tends to cause relapse.
“You should go see it. – I haven’t been to the movies in over two years. I’ve never been a keen movie-goer. The last time I went I saw ‘TT3D – Closer to the Edge’. I’ve since borrowed the movie from a friend to watch at home a couple of times. I could happily watch it on a weekly basis so I might buy it sometime. It’s brilliant. Sympatico.”
I haven’t seen it. I haven’t bought a movie in years, lol, remember I’m the technology generation. I watch everything online. I do love to go to the theater though, I wish I could do it more often, and not have to see kid’s movies because I usually have to take my kids.
Sure it’s about comfort – there are a range of potential negative impacts beyond the pregnancy itself which amount to more than mere ‘comfort’.
But there are certain things you cannot do to attain a better level of life and one of those is kill babies – well that isn’t true.
(or animals but you meat eaters are a losing battle). – steak once a week, bacon on sundays, chicken once or twice a week, fish a couple of times, yum. You must eat boring pizzas.
Bank robbing and spousal abuse hurt other members of society. They cause pain.
Most normal women care about their unborn at some point during the pregnancy, some later than others. – I’m glad you’ve noticed that such variability exists.
But you, as in Mr Reality, only care about the fetus as it pertains to how the woman feels. – I put her ahead of the fetus yes.
If she hates the thing, or doesn’t want it to be born, you’re okay with her killing it. – doesn’t matter if I’m ok with it or not.
The fetus isn’t an individual to you, your concern is on the woman. – that is correct.
Therefor, you don’t care about humans as individuals until they are born. – not true, just less than I do about the woman.
Even when I agree with people I don’t come across right. – it’s better to be left.
I can never explain it so people get it but it’s very alienating from polite society. – ‘polite society’ is a major misnomer, full of hypocrites and thieves.
There’s a reason people from the dregs tend to stay in the dregs, and it’s not just because we love drugs. It’s a completely different way of relating to the world and ALL of you take it for granted. It’s not just me, either, – most strata of society feel the same about their interaction with other strata.
I’ve talked to others in my online abuse or drug addiction support group thingies who have the same issues. It tends to cause relapse. – that is a downer. :-(
I haven’t seen it. – you should. Twice. Once to see the action and a second time to listen to what the riders have to say. Then watch it for the action again. So you need to see it three times. But then again, if you’re not a rider you may not understand or appreciate enough of it for it to be particularly enjoyable. Ah, if only I could convert you into a sportsbike enthusiast.
I haven’t bought a movie in years, lol, remember I’m the technology generation. I watch everything online. - cool, watch it online. Probably won’t have the same impact as on an average home TV screen though. Seeing it in 3D in the theater was amazing.
I do love to go to the theater though, – meh.
I wish I could do it more often, and not have to see kid’s movies because I usually have to take my kids. – the time I remember with the most fondness was taking my son to see the original Transformers movie – the animated one, not the ones with Shia Leboof or whatever his name is (I quite like him) – he spent the entire movie standing up with ocassional jumping up and down thrown in.
“Sure it’s about comfort – there are a range of potential negative impacts beyond the pregnancy itself which amount to more than mere ‘comfort’.”
And I touched on those with my ramblings about how poverty sucks and not being college educated sucks. Yes, life can suck. I still don’t agree that killing any babies is the way to deal with it.
“But there are certain things you cannot do to attain a better level of life and one of those is kill babies – well that isn’t true. ”
I should say “Jack doesn’t think it should be legally allowed to kill your unborn baby to try and get another life”.
“(or animals but you meat eaters are a losing battle). – steak once a week, bacon on sundays, chicken once or twice a week, fish a couple of times, yum. You must eat boring pizzas. ”
Gross. And no my pizzas are not boring. Artichokes, mushrooms, green and yellow peppers, other veggies, white sauce, and feta and mozzarella cheese. When I can afford those yummies.
”Bank robbing and spousal abuse hurt other members of society. They cause pain.”
Abortion robs human beings of their lives. It deprives us all.
“Most normal women care about their unborn at some point during the pregnancy, some later than others. – I’m glad you’ve noticed that such variability exists.”
Pro-life doesn’t equal blind, lol. Humans are variable.
“Therefor, you don’t care about humans as individuals until they are born. – not true, just less than I do about the woman.”
What value does a fetus have to you, then, if you see nothing wrong with allowing them to be killed, even post-viability?
“I can never explain it so people get it but it’s very alienating from polite society. – ‘polite society’ is a major misnomer, full of hypocrites and thieves.”
Lol considering things that I’ve taken as completely normal in my life because I was raised and marinated in it (severe abuse, rampant drug use, ridiculous promiscuity rates, no such thing as “other people’s property that you shouldn’t take”, and other things), I can say that there’s definitely a level of society where people in general just act worse than the majority. Every echelon has it’s issues but some groups have some pretty severe problems.
“I’ve talked to others in my online abuse or drug addiction support group thingies who have the same issues. It tends to cause relapse. – that is a downer. ”
People don’t acknowledge it, which of course is why I talk about it. It would be nice if getting out of addiction and other things were all a matter of willpower and being “better’, but some people simply can’t beat the loneliness and alienation. Which is why I try to get normals to be more patient and understanding. If people give you a break it’s easier.
“I haven’t seen it. – you should. Twice. Once to see the action and a second time to listen to what the riders have to say. Then watch it for the action again. So you need to see it three times. But then again, if you’re not a rider you may not understand or appreciate enough of it for it to be particularly enjoyable. Ah, if only I could convert you into a sportsbike enthusiast.”
I can’t afford a sportsbike! But I do love speeding so I’d probably like it. My driving record is a testament to my adrenaline junkie-ness.
“I wish I could do it more often, and not have to see kid’s movies because I usually have to take my kids. – the time I remember with the most fondness was taking my son to see the original Transformers movie – the animated one, not the ones with Shia Leboof or whatever his name is (I quite like him) – he spent the entire movie standing up with ocassional jumping up and down thrown in. ”
Lol so I’m not the only person who’s oddly fond of poor ol’ Shia. People are mean to him, I find him oddly endearing.
My kids and I went and saw Monsters University whenever it came out. They do the jumping and excitement. They both love the blue one, don’t remember his name, maybe Sully.
And I touched on those with my ramblings about how poverty sucks and not being college educated sucks. Yes, life can suck. I still don’t agree that killing any babies is the way to deal with it. – I’m not simply talking about poverty and missed education Jack. There is more to life.
A ‘better level of life’ or ‘another life”, which is it?
Artichokes, mushrooms, green and yellow peppers, other veggies, white sauce, and feta and mozzarella cheese. – sounds more like a salad :-)
It deprives us all. – hardly!
Pro-life doesn’t equal blind, lol. Humans are variable. – perhaps you could share this wisdom with a few folk ;-)
What value does a fetus have to you, then, if you see nothing wrong with allowing them to be killed, even post-viability? – less than that of a woman obviously.
marinated in it – is that why you’re vegetarian?
I can say that there’s definitely a level of society where people in general just act worse than the majority. – the ones with a collar and tie?
If people give you a break it’s easier. – unfortunately those of the right seem to think that breaking people delivers a better outcome than giving them a break. Which it does, for the breaker.
I can’t afford a sportsbike! But I do love speeding so I’d probably like it. – it’s not just about the speed. Everything is sharper. Acceleration, braking. Leaning, leaning, leaning, scraping, sliding. It’s more about quick than fast.
My driving record is a testament to my adrenaline junkie-ness. – you get a bit better at the where and when after some years of experience.
Lol so I’m not the only person who’s oddly fond of poor ol’ Shia. People are mean to him, I find him oddly endearing. – me too. But then I often like Tom Cruise – in his films.
My kids and I went and saw Monsters University whenever it came out. They do the jumping and excitement. They both love the blue one, don’t remember his name, maybe Sully. – heck, I haven’t even heard of it.
“I’m not simply talking about poverty and missed education Jack. There is more to life.”
Then what are you talking about? See what I was complaining about you being vague. ;)
“A ‘better level of life’ or ‘another life”, which is it? ”
Either or. I’ve talked to (and been raised by one) regretful parents who feel like having children messed up their plans, that their whole lives would have been different and better if those pesky kids hadn’t screwed things up. It’s a childish way of looking at the world. It doesn’t justify killing anyone, though.
“Artichokes, mushrooms, green and yellow peppers, other veggies, white sauce, and feta and mozzarella cheese. – sounds more like a salad ””
It’s not a salad! Darn carnivores and your limited imagination. I also make a Cuban influenced pizza with black beans, etc, but I doubt you’d like it much since you weren’t raised on Cuban cuisine.
“It deprives us all. – hardly!”
Well if you had gotten your perfect world and all women who want an abortion got one, than I wouldn’t be talking (typing?) to you now. The world would be deprived of me annoying them and my pretty face lol. That would suck. Who would you talk to here??? :)
In all seriousness, yes, abortion deprives us all like all killing of human beings does. Everyone is an individual, and when you removed an individual from this world we lose out on everything they were.
“What value does a fetus have to you, then, if you see nothing wrong with allowing them to be killed, even post-viability? – less than that of a woman obviously. ”
That doesn’t answer the question at all.
“If people give you a break it’s easier. – unfortunately those of the right seem to think that breaking people delivers a better outcome than giving them a break. Which it does, for the breaker. ”
Well there’s a balance. People on the left tend to give too much of a break, if that make sense. It’s almost patronizing sometimes. I don’t really know how to explain it. Right wingers tend to be too harsh, and lefties tend to be too lenient. Everyone should just listen to me about how to deal with drug addiction and getting people out of the dregs, life would be perfect. :)
“I can’t afford a sportsbike! But I do love speeding so I’d probably like it. – it’s not just about the speed. Everything is sharper. Acceleration, braking. Leaning, leaning, leaning, scraping, sliding. It’s more about quick than fast.”
See I’d like it. My poor old Acura was not happy with me, lol.
“Lol so I’m not the only person who’s oddly fond of poor ol’ Shia. People are mean to him, I find him oddly endearing. – me too. But then I often like Tom Cruise – in his films.”
Tom Cruise is actually an excellent actor imo. It’s not his fault he’s also crazy, lol.
Then what are you talking about? – flow-on effects, later impacts. Mental and/or physical health impacts. Stresses froman unwanted pregnancy may have any number of serious, negative effects at some future time.
Darn carnivores and your limited imagination. – hey, I did vegetarian at one stage.
I also make a Cuban influenced pizza with black beans, etc, but I doubt you’d like it much since you weren’t raised on Cuban cuisine. – I have a broad palate.
Well if you had gotten your perfect world and all women who want an abortion got one, – how am I, or you, deprived of anything if some women whose existence you or I have no idea of has an abortion sometime we have no knowledge of?
than I wouldn’t be talking (typing?) to you now. – much as I enjoy interacting with you, if you never were I’d never know.
The world would be deprived of me annoying them and my pretty face lol. – I applaud your contribution :-)
That would suck. Who would you talk to here??? – Thomas R.? It’d be more frustrating though :-)
That doesn’t answer the question at all. – how do you define such a value?
Right wingers tend to be too harsh, and lefties tend to be too lenient. – at least lefties have good intentions.
See I’d like it. My poor old Acura was not happy with me, lol. – not quite the right type of vehicle for what you want methinks.
Tom Cruise is actually an excellent actor imo. It’s not his fault he’s also crazy, lol. – yeah, he’s a raving loon but a very good actor.
“Then what are you talking about? – flow-on effects, later impacts. Mental and/or physical health impacts. Stresses froman unwanted pregnancy may have any number of serious, negative effects at some future time.”
Uh huh and stress/physical effects/psychological effects/everything else can come from all kinds of life events. Killing is not a proper response to this though. My childhood and marriage caused me massive amounts of damage, physically and psychologically, doesn’t mean I would have been justified offing anyone except to save my own life.
“Darn carnivores and your limited imagination. ”
Apostate!!!!!!!!!!!11!!!11!!!
“Well if you had gotten your perfect world and all women who want an abortion got one, – how am I, or you, deprived of anything if some women whose existence you or I have no idea of has an abortion sometime we have no knowledge of?”
Well we might not personally be, directly. But everyone around where that child would have grown up would be differently affected if the child was allowed to live, and that child would most likely have children, it would change the entire world. Just like removing anyone from the world does.
“than I wouldn’t be talking (typing?) to you now. – much as I enjoy interacting with you, if you never were I’d never know.”
Your life would be poorer for it and you’d never know! How sad, poor Reality deprived of Jack’s amazingness and fabulousness.
In all seriousness, I may not be great but my life wasn’t optional, once I existed, I existed, and killing me would have been wrong. And it wouldn’t have helped my mother any, it really wasn’t my fault her life sucked. I see zero difference between my mother aborting me like she planned, and if she had killed me instead of just rupturing my spleen and nearly killing me. The only difference is one would have been a much more painful way to die.
“That would suck. Who would you talk to here??? – Thomas R.? It’d be more frustrating though ”
Lol I’m quite fond of Tomás though, he’s overtaken Tyler in my affections. I miss Tyler, strangely.
“That doesn’t answer the question at all. – how do you define such a value?”
You already know how I value fetuses, I’m asking you how you value them. Not how you value them compared to their mothers, how you value them separate from that.
“Right wingers tend to be too harsh, and lefties tend to be too lenient. – at least lefties have good intentions.”
I think a lot of righties have good intentions, and sometimes their stuff even works on specific people. “Tough love” fails on a lot of people, but some people need that kick to get going. I think you have right wingers stereotyped rather badly. Many of them are genuinely kind. Do you know that I had literally never been told that my dad abusing me wasn’t my fault until people on this website told me? Partly because I never really tell anyone about the abuse, but still, people tended to blame me. Not so here, except for a couple trolls. I tend to get all offended and feelings hurt because people are hard on me sometimes but they are genuinely good people, the regulars at least. We just … differ… on a few intrinsic things.
flow-on effects, later impacts. Mental and/or physical health impacts. Stresses from an unwanted pregnancy may have any number of serious, negative effects at some future time can lead to death.
Apostate!!!!!!!!!!!11!!!11!!! – ruminant :-)
Well we might not personally be, directly. But everyone around where that child would have grown up would be differently affected if the child was allowed to live, and that child would most likely have children, it would change the entire world. Just like removing anyone from the world does. – that’s needle in a haystack stuff.
Your life would be poorer for it and you’d never know! How sad, poor Reality deprived of Jack’s amazingness and fabulousness. – very much so, except I wouldn’t know it.
Lol I’m quite fond of Tomás though, he’s overtaken Tyler in my affections. I miss Tyler, strangely. – what are you, a glutton for punishment or something!
You already know how I value fetuses, I’m asking you how you value them. Not how you value them compared to their mothers, how you value them separate from that. – no I don’t, how do you value fetuses? What do you compare them against?
We just … differ… on a few intrinsic things. – yeah, I find that too :-)
“flow-on effects, later impacts. Mental and/or physical health impacts. Stresses from an unwanted pregnancy may have any number of serious, negative effects at some future time can lead to death.”
Yeah… so can multiple other things, some we choose and some that we are obligated to. I still don’t think the maybe possibility at some point in the future you might have adverse consequences which at some point may lead to your death or knock a year or two off your life expectancy justifies killing any babies.
It’s like the difference between shooting your abusive spouse when he/she is coming at you with a knife, and shooting your abusive spouse when he/she is sleeping in bed, and you have other option other than killing them. The first is justified killing, the second is not.
“Apostate!!!!!!!!!!!11!!!11!!! – ruminant ”
I don’t believe ruminants eat eggs or dairy from other animals, so I’m not one of those! I have tried to go vegan but I lost too much weight. :( Why did you become a bloodmouth again if you were a vegetarian?
“Your life would be poorer for it and you’d never know! How sad, poor Reality deprived of Jack’s amazingness and fabulousness. – very much so, except I wouldn’t know it.”
But you’d have a sad feeling that something was missing, forever! ;). In all seriousness, I’m not going to stop putting my name to dead fetuses. All the unborn babies killed are people of their own, who would grow up to be individuals and possibly offer a lot to the world. I have to believe that the world would be poorer without me and any other kid no one wanted to live.
“Lol I’m quite fond of Tomás though, he’s overtaken Tyler in my affections. I miss Tyler, strangely. – what are you, a glutton for punishment or something!”
Tyler and Thomas are like puzzles to me. They don’t think anything like me and I barely understand them, so I have to figure out what they are saying so we can communicate. It’s frustrating, but it beats being bored. I just don’t like it when they harangue me over stuff I can’t help.
“You already know how I value fetuses, I’m asking you how you value them. Not how you value them compared to their mothers, how you value them separate from that. – no I don’t, how do you value fetuses? What do you compare them against?”
I value them like I value children. Like infants. I don’t know every child in the world and I have no real emotional attachment to millions and billions of kids, but they are all tiny humans who deserve love and care, and don’t deserve to be hurt or killed by anyone, least of all their parents. That’s how I view fetuses. How do you, separate from what the mother in question feels about the unborn she’s carrying?
“We just … differ… on a few intrinsic things. – yeah, I find that too”
You should say something nice about the conservatives on this website!
I still don’t think the maybe possibility at some point in the future you might have adverse consequences which at some point may lead to your death or knock a year or two off your life expectancy justifies killing any babies. – you don’t need me to tell you that we differ on that one.
It’s like the difference between shooting your abusive spouse when he/she is coming at you with a knife, and shooting your abusive spouse when he/she is sleeping in bed, and you have other option other than killing them. The first is justified killing, the second is not. – you can’t abort a fetus after you’ve suffered the negative impacts which may lead to your death.
I don’t believe ruminants eat eggs or dairy from other animals, so I’m not one of those! – ahem, what do calves and (not human)kids drink?
Why did you become a bloodmouth again if you were a vegetarian? – I don’t eat raw meat. I like the taste of meats.
But you’d have a sad feeling that something was missing, forever! – how?
In all seriousness, I’m not going to stop putting my name to dead fetuses. All the unborn babies killed are people of their own, who would grow up to be individuals and possibly offer a lot to the world. I have to believe that the world would be poorer without me and any other kid no one wanted to live. – still needle in a haystack stuff.
Tyler and Thomas are like puzzles to me. – 500 piece jigsaws, with one piece drawn from each of 500 different jigsaws?
They don’t think anything like me and I barely understand them, – you could have stopped after the first three words ;-)
so I have to figure out what they are saying so we can communicate. – you wouldn’t be alone.
I just don’t like it when they harangue me over stuff I can’t help. – I think it’s more about haranguing you because of what they want.
That’s how I view fetuses. – how do you compare them to women?
How do you, separate from what the mother in question feels about the unborn she’s carrying? – same method, different result.
You should say something nice about the conservatives on this website! – I try not to intentionally lie.