Pro-life vid of day: German birth certificates now offer third gender option
by LauraLoo
A legislative change taking effect in Germany November 1 will allow parents to opt out of identifying their baby’s gender on his or her birth certificate. The law is the first of its kind in Europe.
Germany to Offer Third Gender Option on Birth… by tvnportal
Does this have Brave New World written all over it?
Email dailyvid@jillstanek.com with your video suggestions.
[HT: Drudge Report]
Aug.19, 2013 12:00 pm |
Video of the day |
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Quandry for liberals: if gender is a social construct, not determined biologically and certainly not fixed, what happens when a person born with a y chromosome identifies as a “woman” and applies for benefits available only to women, such as college scholarships?
Progressives want to utterly destroy any and every foundation of society to start anew. Unfortunately what they build in its place is always far inferior. Even they can’t legislate away anatomy.
Eric, they’ll give out the benefits still because they’ll always need Paul’s vote and it will still be coming at the expense of Peter.
We already have gender neutral organisms on this planet. They’re called protozoa and they’re at the bottom of the evolutionary ladder. Even plants have gender (pollination, anyone?) but I guess that’s because the evil patriarchy has its roots back in the primordial forests.
Ah yes, the end of the world!
The truth is, some babies are born sexually ambiguous. Are you suggesting that parents just choose one then and run with it? A bit confused as to what the proposed solution is from those freaking out.
In the US, you can just change your birth certificate later on – get a letter from a doctor and pay money (in some states, it doesn’t even require that).
“The truth is, some babies are born sexually ambiguous. Are you suggesting that parents just choose one then and run with it? A bit confused as to what the proposed solution is from those freaking out. ”
Yeah, this happens, and it’s pretty awful when the parents choose a gender and have the surgeries done, etc, and then the kid identifies with the other gender when they get older. It’s like that case where the little boy lost his penis in a circumcision accident, and then the parents raised him as a girl (on some advice from an unscrupulous psychiatrist) alongside his twin brother. It did not turn out very happy for that little boy.
Jack -
Interesting.
I enjoy the continued freak out over any of these issues. I mean, with all due respect to you Chris (if you’re reading this) – do you really think that it is destroying the foundation of society if somebody leaves a gender blank while it gets sorted out? Seriously? You have the world shaped that narrowly?
Society will buckle and collapse if you don’t immediately know the pronouns you should use to refer to someone.
I read a study that when people know a baby is a boy (or if they are told a baby is a boy even if she is a girl), they describe the baby with words such as “strong” and “tough” and other masculine adjectives. When they think a baby is a girl they call him or her “pretty” or “sweet” and feminine adjectives. I noticed people doing this with my kids, even though objectively my son was a “prettier” newborn than my daughter. I’d like to see a study for what words they would use to describe a baby who was ambiguously gendered. Should be interesting.
Ex, the story in Der Spiegel indicated parents could opt-out of the gender consideration whether or not their child had hermaphroditism, but I could be mistaken. The video made it seem otherwise, but it is unclear, and I didn’t watch that until now. I don’t have time to dust off the German textbook to read the law in question. Destroying concepts of sex and gender is an admitted goal of many feminists, based on the idea that the concept of gender is an artificial construct to influence societal power. This view should be plain for someone who spends so much time on the issue of abortion, since it is closely related. Please visit RHRealitycheck if you don’t believe me. Unfortunately biology is not subject to dialectical materialism, however, and denying it will cause harm, not help. Many feminists see childbirth as not a healthy functioning of the female body but shackles of the patriarchy that must be destroyed to achieve a greater equality. I wish such stuff was as crazy as is sounded, but many people believe that. My own wife believed that gender was an artificial construct, after taking a course in Women’s Studies at our university. I didn’t say it was the end of the world, but when you try to destroy foundations of society, you injure society. It is a foundation of society that men and women are different. Individuals are different. Trying to mandate a bland sameness on the whole of society doesn’t achieve egalitarian goals, but quite the opposite. If you believe this new rule is only about the medical condition of hermaphroditism, OK, but you’re missing the larger battle of ideas and the context this is in. Even the video acknowledges that.
Google translate butchered the article pretty bad (though interesting to read) – best I can tell, it is for babies born without a clear sexual identity.
The rest, to me, seems paranoia. Will some people believe gender is simply made up? Sure – but we allow people to believe all sorts of things in society – there’s no evidence that anything actually damaging to people is going to be done about these radical views.
‘Hard cases make bad law.’ Sounds like they are opening another Pandora’s Box. When will people learn not to do that?
“..based on the idea that the concept of gender is an artificial construct..” And therein lies the problem. This German idiocy is not based on a very few children for whom a DNA test will help with the determination, no, this is based on the idea that parents can take a baby who is obviously and genetically male (for example) and PRETENDING otherwise. Again, it is abandonment of science. Y’know, isn’t it curious that a lot of religious folks find themselves defending science and biology against people who think religion is just a myth? Things that make ya go hmmmm.
Ex, but they are not that radical, that’s the point, the view that gender is artificial is quite mainstream among some intellectuals, especially social scientists on college campuses. This is a serious philosophical debate that has and will have a huge impact on society, nobody is going to get guillotined in the near future over birth certificate details but it will affect many aspects of society and law. I don’t believe society can ever successfully deny gender any more than they can mandate the sky to be purple, but I believe a large portion of society and leaders can try to deny it, and that will negatively affect people. You can dismiss the two sides of the debate as paranoids and radicals, but reality doesn’t disappear when ostriches stick their heads in the ground.
And Reality doesn’t disappear when the moderators stick their heads in the ground either, har har… :)
Chris -
I’ll bite – name five or so laws that you see in the future (near or otherwise) based on this radical thinking.
Germany has been trying its hardest to play the liberal angle ever since Hitler’s demise. This is just another attempt for them to salvage their nation post Nazism. Those that pay attention know how Merkel and her minions totally gave up common sense in the name of political correctness.
The Christian Democratic Party she leads is kind of an oxymoron truly.
Thomas R -
Just wondering – how would you propose Germany deal with sexually ambiguous babies?
Ex, it’s not always about laws but about how society functions and affects on individuals, which is where the impact would be largest. But since you asked let me imagine five laws in a genderless society, in an extreme form as an example. Law #1, parenthood is illegal, since the idea that two parents of an opposite gender would be abusing the child with antiquated notions of gender roles (Plato wanted this, though not for this reason). Law #2, it’s illegal for anyone to treat another person based on their anatomical features (we already have anti-discrimination laws, this is just an extension of principle). Law #3, gender-separated bathrooms are illegal (teenage boys everywhere rejoice). Law #4, names strongly suggesting a gender type are illegal, only approved names will be allowed (a court just the other day changed the name of a child because of its outlandish nature). Law #5, marriage of any type is illegal or strictly regulated in nature, since it also encourages gender roles even in same-sex relationships (Plato again demonstrates these ideas are rather old). Again, extreme and unlikely examples, but not so extreme that they haven’t been argued for or implemented in at least some form.
OMG, Thomas, I just had a hilarious flash in my mind of Mike Myer’s Coffee Talk Lady:
“The Christian Democratic Party is neither. Discuss.”
Law #3, gender-separated bathrooms are illegal (teenage boys everywhere rejoice):
Behold the California public schools as of last week.
Thanks – I appreciate you at least throwing thoughts out – I don’t think many would do that.
Again, I might be naive – I just find it hard to imagine that sometime in the next many, many years that American society would abolish parenthood or make names illegal. I mean, again, I don’t have a crystal ball and can’t predict the future – but given that we can’t even get common sense laws passed, I don’t see much of a chance for those other laws.
I just think this is paranoia first and foremost. Plus, it’s Germany. How do we continue to freak out whenever any country condemns our laws, and then we do the same to other countries?
“how would you propose Germany deal with sexually ambiguous babies?”
How are sexually ambiguous babies being dealt with currently in Germany?
Ah yes, however they have been dealt with has been the end of the world! Interesting. I enjoy the continued freak out over any of these issues. I mean, with all due respect to you Ex-GOP (if you’re reading this) – do you really think that it is destroying the foundation of society if it is just left as is? Seriously? You have the world shaped that narrowly?
Ditch the dress, or ditch the tie, but your DNA, it doesn’t lie.
Sexually ambiguous babies? That is rare, and DNA should determine what is the sex of the child. We’ve already determined that that is not what is at issue here. What’s at issue is gender confused parents inflicting their pathology on their own children.
“DNA, it doesn’t lie.”
Unfortunately ninek, this is not true. Simply google sex chromosome disorders.
XX-male syndrome is exactly what it sounds like.
Klinefelter’s syndrome also causes male children to be born with at least two X chromosomes.
Swyer’s syndrome causes XY female children without internal female sex characteristics.
Bottom line, life isn’t that simple, and some of these syndromes such as Klinefelter’s are as common as one in every 500-1000 live male births. That’s a lot of babies.
Again, that’s not what the Germans are talking about. That’s not what the gender-destruction movement is about. It’s not about those rare children for whom the wrong upbringing will need to be undone later in life. It’s about parents who willfully want to disregard the innate gender nature of their healthy children. This isn’t because the parents really care about their own children’s future: it’s because they are bitter about their own gender confused unresolved issues. And you know it! Why are you turning a blind eye to what’s really happening in the world around you? Because the world around you does not fit your preferred narrative (I’m addressing the errant parents here) and so you must force the world to fit your narrative because your narrative is more important to you than objective reality.
This IS a lot like abortion. A new human being’s life begins at conception. But, that would mean abortion murders babies. Can’t have that! Instead, life must begin at some other time, and parents may base their child’s life and death on emotional issues instead of science or biology.
Nobody in Germany or California is acting thus because Oh, my, there’s been a huge unaddressed problem, and oh look, here’s some legislation to fix it. Nope. Just as pregnant women in difficult circumstances are being USED by the abortion industry to justify murder, a few chromosomally challenged children are being USED by the gender-destruction movement to further their misguided political agenda. I wish I were wrong. I wish this were really about those few children and the quality of their lives.
Today a 6ft 4in-ish 350lb male wearing what little hair he had left from male-pattern baldness in a blue scrunchie in a ponytail, eye make-up, and long french manicured nails (and a guys cut t-shirt and pants) followed me (5’6″) and my 3 year old daughter into the girl’s restroom at the store today. You could hear him in the next stall peeing standing up. That is insanity. And someone who is so detatched from reality, so mentally unstable as to believe, all evidence to the contrary, they are another sex is not the type of person I feel safe with in an inclosed private space. So when I hear ‘Germany allows a 3rd gender’ on a birth certificate what I hear is ‘society places the sane at risk by humoring the insane’. Sure, it’s not the U.S., but very similar things are happening here, and in other countries. As globalization continues we can’t ignore other countries, for as they go, so go we.
Jespren,Apparently you and your daughter and all the rest of the real women in this world will just have to stand by and take it so that Jack and Ex-RINO can feel good about sucking up to the cross-dressers.
Somebody help me!!!! I have this picture of California mayor Filner in a dress following Jespren and her daughter into the bathroom and I can’t get it out of my mind.
Oh cut it out “truthseeker”. For the record, I’m fine with “women born women” spaces, as well as “men born men” spaces. And apparently not agreeing with you 100% equals “sucking up”.
“Progressives want to utterly destroy any and every foundation of society” – which one? From which culture? At which time? Hard to choose? That would be because all societies evolve and progress.
But wait ninek, there’s more – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermaphrodite
If you understand how the sky gets its various colors Chris, you would know how it is possible for there to be a purple one.
And there are already tons of “family” or unisex restrooms all over the place, I usually use them when i have my kids in public because it seems to upset people when I take my two-year-old daughter into the men’s room, and men’s rooms never have changing tables and the like. . Society hasn’t died because of that yet, and it’s not going to.
Jack. The politicians in California are not alright with those ‘women born women’ and ‘men born men’ spaces. And they have passed laws legally taking these ‘spaces’ away in the name of the ‘progressive’ movement. They are giving even the mind-bending liberals a bad name. I am glad you can still see the idiocy that permeates a society run by unchecked liberals. First California voters got Prop 10 overturned by a liberal court. Now they have to let men in dresses join their daughters in the bathrooms at school. You have to admit this is craziness. I expect there will be rise in concealed carry permits as people cling to their guns in an effort to keep their safe ‘space’. Amybe you think the schools will renovate their current bathrooms and replace them with fourty unisex ones?
So, is everyone defending this lunacy going to be alright with an adult male conducting an intimate search of your daughter at the airport? Because after all, requesting a female TSA officer is obviously “hateful” and “biased” and condones bullying.
I apologize for lumping all the politicians in California into one ball. They are not all insane; only the majority of the Democrats.
I’d be fine with unisex bathrooms, I really don’t see the big deal. Like I said, my kids and I use unisex bathrooms, usually a lot of women and their kids are in there when we do. I haven’t randomly attacked any women, as the vast majority of men won’t. And the people who will attack anyone, male or female, aren’t going to be deterred because they aren’t “allowed” into the opposite genders bathroom. That’s seriously one of the dumbest justifications I’ve ever seen. You think the only thing keeping women relatively safe is because biological males aren’t allowed in the bathrooms, or what? You think people who want to hurt you are gonna be like “darn, well, I would have attacked that girl but they said no boys allowed in the bathroom!”. For goodness sake use some logic.
I do think that there’s something to be said for having locker rooms and other places where people run around naked to be gender segregated, or like how the gym near my house does it (men, women, and unisex locker rooms, if you’re male you can choose the male or the unisex, if you’re female you can choose the female or the unisex locker room). And allowing trans people to use the bathroom of their choice isn’t the same as requiring to people to submit to a search with someone of either gender that they don’t feel comfortable with. I’d rather be searched by a woman than a man, but I don’t think it’s “hateful” that they make men search me generally.
The Supreme Court can overturn laws if they aren’t constitutional, whether or not the majority of voters approved them. I don’t know if Proposition 10 is unconstitutional or not, but I don’t live in Cali and I don’t really care what happens with anti-gay marriage statutes. I do think it’s amusing that people bitch and moan when some states pass legal gay marriage, and want those laws overturned, but then turn around and cry about it when laws banning gay marriage are overturned. Apparently it’s okay to ignore the will of the voters if you don’t like the laws being made.
This is not and never has been about hermaphrodites and truly intersexed people. If that’s all the German law was about, people with legitimate sexual ambiguity, I’d have less issue. This is about people who want to play make believe. It’s bad enough when they want to do it to themselves, but are we going to allow them to do it to their children?
“Will some people believe gender is simply made up? Sure – but we allow people to believe all sorts of things in society”
Yeah like that they’re really the opposite gender, all evidence to the contrary.
“For the record, I’m fine with “women born women” spaces, as well as “men born men” spaces.”
That’s benevolent of you Jack. Unfortunately, those pushing this agenda don’t agree, and the people who allegedly don’t want this radical change aren’t doing anything to push back against them.
I do think that there’s something to be said for having locker rooms and other places where people run around naked to be gender segregated
Why can’t the logic you used for unisex bathrooms (your paragraph one above) go for locker rooms as well, Jack?
“And the people who will attack anyone, male or female, aren’t going to be deterred because they aren’t “allowed” into the opposite genders bathroom. That’s seriously one of the dumbest justifications I’ve ever seen. You think the only thing keeping women relatively safe is because biological males aren’t allowed in the bathrooms, or what?”
Well. I agree to an extent – especially if you’re talking about a deserted area. Doesn’t matter what the sign says. But if the area outside the restroom is crowded, it may make a big difference if someone can say, “What the hell is that guy doing going in the women’s restroom.” That should be the normal reaction.
But in general, separate spaces for men and women for personal needs (locker rooms, bathrooms etc) should always be available unless it’s a single bathroom with a door (in which case it’s just a private space).
” That’s benevolent of you Jack. Unfortunately, those pushing this agenda don’t agree, and the people who allegedly don’t want this radical change aren’t doing anything to push back against them.”
It’s not my job to go “push back” against something that I don’t particularly care about or agree with especially in another country. I’ve seen Christian complain that it’s unfair to compare them to or expect them to do anything about the Christian anti-gay groups who want the death penalty for gays, etc. I agree, that is unfair to lump all Christians into one group and expect them to answer for what other people are doing. Same principle would seem to apply here.
” Yeah like that they’re really the opposite gender, all evidence to the contrary.”
Do you all just not know that there’s biological evidence for things like homosexuality and transgenderism,(in some studies, maybe the majority, research is pretty knew), or do you just disregard it? It doesn’t mean we all have to agree with unisex locker rooms, or anything, but it just seems simplistic and anti-science to completely deny that there might be evidence that people aren’t just making this up about themselves or just mentally ill. And, it doesn’t even have to change your opinion! “Well, I realize that there is a very small percentage of the population that brain mirrors the opposite sex rather than their own, and that’s unfortunate, but we can’t change all our social constructs for them” seems like a more realistic viewpoint then, “they’re sick men in dresses who wanna get close to our girls!” (not saying you say that CT, but seems like the majority of anti-transgender people do).
” Well. I agree to an extent – especially if you’re talking about a deserted area. Doesn’t matter what the sign says. But if the area outside the restroom is crowded, it may make a big difference if someone can say, “What the hell is that guy doing going in the women’s restroom.” That should be the normal reaction.”
I swear none of you have ever met transgender people. I’d say 80% of the ones I’ve met you can’t tell they’re not a woman or man biologically at a glance, especially if they are taking hormones. I feel bad for the ones who can’t “pass” because they get people freaking out on them when they’re just going about their day not causing any damage. I’m sure you used the bathroom while a transgender woman was in there, it’s not statistically common but it’s probably happened a time or two. And you probably never knew and it didn’t harm you at once. As a counter to all the tons of stories of trangender women getting attacked and beaten and even raped using men’s rooms, do you have any cases of them attacking women while using the women’s room? Is this just a matter of principle or is it a legit concern?
” Why can’t the logic you used for unisex bathrooms (your paragraph one above) go for locker rooms as well, Jack?”
Well it can be, I just personally don’t see the big deal about unisex bathrooms. Any time I’ve been in one everyone just uses the stalls like they should and the changing table to take care of babies. I once had a husband of some woman follow me into one, when I had to change my daughter, and DEMAND to know why I was using that bathroom instead of the men’s room. I said something impolite.
A biological explanation does not alter my opinion at all (just as a biological or genetic explanation for homosexual attraction does not alter my opinions on that). I don’t believe that transgendered people are making it up from their perspective. They believe it to be true. But objectively, it is not true. There are biological explanations for many mental illnesses, but it doesn’t mean the person with the illness is correct in their thinking just because they believe what they think and have a biological reason for thinking the way they do. And as you said, we can’t change all our societal constructs b/c someone has an objectively untrue belief.
I’m less worried about the “sick men in dresses” who think they are women and more concerned about the sick men in dresses who know they’re men and will take advantage of the fact that the public has bowed to delusion.
“It’s not my job to go “push back” against something that I don’t particularly care about or agree with especially in another country.”
True. I said it only to point out that your personal willingness to permit separate spaces for men and women is relatively meaningless in light of the will of those actually doing the pushing. In this country.
but it just seems simplistic and anti-science to completely deny that there might be evidence that people aren’t just making this up about themselves or just mentally ill.
Who the heck is denying this or saying they are making it up? Wow. There is also biological evidence for things like alcoholism and addictions. I don’t want men (homosexual, trans, bi, straight, addicted or drunk) in my and my daughter’s public bathroom, locker room, or changing room.
It’s not much, but I have pushed back in my own way. I used to buy a lot from JC Penneys for myself and family. Quality product for a good price. I was in one of their stores last year and they had changed a men’s dressing room into a unisex dressing room. I will not spend any more money there or at any other JC Penney.
Why can’t the logic you used for unisex bathrooms (your paragraph one above) go for locker rooms as well, Jack?
“I once had a husband of some woman follow me into one, when I had to change my daughter, and DEMAND to know why I was using that bathroom instead of the men’s room.”
You had a child, so it should have been self-explanatory. But absent that, I don’t have big problem with the husband’s reaction. If a man walked into a women’s or family restroom without a child, I would expect my husband or any male witness to do the same. He shouldn’t BE THERE.
Jack, in terms of bathrooms, I think the concern is much less about the transgendered people themselves, who probably mean no harm 99% of the time. It’s about the guys who will take advantage of the fact that no one can question them being somewhere they clearly should not be. In terms of locker rooms etc, it’s about modesty and frankly, even transgendered people who mean no harm should not be there with people of the opposite sex. If a place wants to provide a unisex place to change etc, then that’s their prerogative and people can use it as they feel comfortable.
Can any of you share stories of how YOU personally have been harmed by a transgendered person? Or how a law like this would harm you?
Or does different just freak you people out?
Seriously – sometimes it’s like middle school around here.
“Today a 6ft 4in-ish 350lb male wearing what little hair he had left from male-pattern baldness in a blue scrunchie in a ponytail, eye make-up, and long french manicured nails (and a guys cut t-shirt and pants) followed me (5’6?) and my 3 year old daughter into the girl’s restroom at the store today.”
I think that the only “crazy” or unacceptable part of this sentence is that he went into the women’s restroom. I think that if we let go of the idiotic belief that wearing make-up or carry a purse or manicure his nails somehow makes a man “girly,” then we would have a lot fewer men who come to the conclusion that they were meant to be women. I think that there are a lot of intersecting difficulties going on when it comes to issues like these, some biological and some societal; the rigid socially-prescribed rules for gendered dress and recreation and emotional behavior don’t help anyone, in my opinion.
I don’t think that anyone just simply decides “Hm, I wish I could wear nail polish; I must be a girl.” But I think that we have a society that is intensely intolerant of deviation from what are, quite honestly, fairly arbitrary gender roles and conventions; and people who deviate from these roles receive a lifetime of messages that they are “girly” or “manly,” that they are somehow not behaving like their gender….it’s creepy and unnecessary.
Eric, I brought up women’s colleges a bit on the last transgender thread; I’ll see if I can find it for you in a little bit (still at work, ugh).
” You had a child, so it should have been self-explanatory. But absent that, I don’t have big problem with the husband’s reaction. If a man walked into a women’s or family restroom without a child, I would expect my husband or any male witness to do the same. He shouldn’t BE THERE.”
It wasn’t a “family” restroom, it was the unisex one. It was at a mall where there are men’s and women’s on the first floor, and the only one on the second floor is a unisex bathroom. I see no reason why a single dude can’t use that one as well as a single woman. If anyone’s uncomfortable they could go to the first floor and use the gender-segregated ones. And I don’t agree with accosting strangers for doing nothing other than using a restroom they are 100% allowed to use. If he was worried he could have came in the restroom and pretended to wash his hands to keep an eyes on things.
” Jack, in terms of bathrooms, I think the concern is much less about the transgendered people themselves, who probably mean no harm 99% of the time. It’s about the guys who will take advantage of the fact that no one can question them being somewhere they clearly should not be. In terms of locker rooms etc, it’s about modesty and frankly, even transgendered people who mean no harm should not be there with people of the opposite sex. If a place wants to provide a unisex place to change etc, then that’s their prerogative and people can use it as they feel comfortable.”
Except you just said that you’re fine with random men confronting strangers they don’t feel belong? Whether the place allows unisex (like the place I got yelled at did) or not?
” It’s not much, but I have pushed back in my own way. I used to buy a lot from JC Penneys for myself and family. Quality product for a good price. I was in one of their stores last year and they had changed a men’s dressing room into a unisex dressing room. I will not spend any more money there or at any other JC Penney. ”
That’s probably to help out us single or involved fathers with daughters who get people freaking out when we bring our girls into men’s dressing rooms. How dare they.
I already answered your other question.
“But I think that we have a society that is intensely intolerant of deviation from what are, quite honestly, fairly arbitrary gender roles and conventions; and people who deviate from these roles receive a lifetime of messages that they are “girly” or “manly,” that they are somehow not behaving like their gender….it’s creepy and unnecessary. ”
Yes, I do agree with this. Which is probably why there is an intense amount of violence towards biological males who present as feminine. Which is a big reason for why transwomen want to use women’s restrooms. It it were safer I’d bet you’d see people less frantic about it.
“Except you just said that you’re fine with random men confronting strangers they don’t feel belong? Whether the place allows unisex (like the place I got yelled at did) or not?”
I thought you said it was a family restroom (probably b/c you were talking about going in w/ your daughter). My mistake. If it was unisex, then either sex “belongs” and no one should be saying anything. But in a situation of a women’s or family restroom, a single dude doesn’t belong. It’s not a matter of feelings unless society says, “oh but he might belong if he thinks he’s a woman” so that you have to ignore people who should not be going in there.
“I thought you said it was a family restroom (probably b/c you were talking about going in w/ your daughter). My mistake. If it was unisex, then either sex “belongs” and no one should be saying anything. But in a situation of a women’s or family restroom, a single dude doesn’t belong. It’s not a matter of feelings unless society says, “oh but he might belong if he thinks he’s a woman” so that you have to ignore people who should not be going in there. ”
Well all right, but I don’t want single women going in the family restrooms either (unless there is no ladies room). In my experience women are just as dangerous to children (except sexual abuse) as men are, and I would wonder why a single woman would want to be in a family restroom.
The dude was just mad because his wife had gone in there before I did(which again, if she wanted a restroom where guys can’t be then she was welcome to go to the first floor or go home). I’m not changing my daughter on the floor in the filthy men’s room because they don’t have tables, and some people are dumb.
I just think it’s funny, trans people are going to use the restrooms that they feel comfortable in, most likely, and none of you will probably know the vast majority of the time. And it won’t affect your life one bit. I think it’s probably a lot more dangerous when women use the men’s (because it apparently takes women years to pee and there’s always a line, you always get women coming in the men’s room and it’s quite shocking), then to let the rare transwoman use the women’s.
We know there are hermaphrodites born who need testing done to determine their sex and need medical treatment. I am very sensitive to these children’s and parents’ situation and want them to receive compassionate, high quality care but this is NOT what this is about. You are seeing “the transformation of Germany” which is what radical leftists want here, the “transformation of America”. The progressive mindset-gender is sexist, restrictive and discriminatory but being unisex or genderless is “in” and “cool”.
… Because now NEWBORNS can be gender-confused?
What if the newborn feels like a different race than he/she/(it, apparently?) is born? Or feels like she/he/it should have different parents? Or a different birthday? Oh, right, it/he/she can’t. Because there are FACTS, and a newborn child’s gender is one of those facts.
Everybody has lost their minds.
Jack,
I don’t think women should be in the men’s room either. Nor should single women be in the family restroom, b/c it is for families w/ children. I take a little issue w/ your “women are just as dangerous to kids as men” statement. Possibly to their own children (but restrooms are irrelevant to that), but women are far far less dangerous to stranger’s children than men. I mean, that’s just basic crime stats.
“I just think it’s funny, trans people are going to use the restrooms that they feel comfortable in, most likely, and none of you will probably know the vast majority of the time. And it won’t affect your life one bit.”
Probably true, but irrelevant to the point I was making about making it a policy that any man can enter a women’s bathroom and no one should bat an eye b/c he might think he’s a woman. If I see a man in a women’s restroom, you better believe I’m going to tell him to get the hell out, and I think that should be the policy.
“I think it’s probably a lot more dangerous when women use the men’s (because it apparently takes women years to pee and there’s always a line, you always get women coming in the men’s room and it’s quite shocking), then to let the rare transwoman use the women’s.”
I don’t think one has anything to do w/ the other. But I agree, women should not be in a men’s bathroom. Even if they think they’re men. They don’t belong there.
Jack,
When your daughter turns fourteen may her English teacher don a wig and accidentally expose himself to her in the bathroom Anthony Weiner style. May you and yours enjoy the progressive lifestyle of a nudist camp everywhere you go. Where everything is sex neutral and the contraceptives flow freely.
But just because you and a bunch of other progressives want to demand everything in your lives be sex neutral, the rest of us should not have to put up with exhibitionists in the park district showers where we live. I really think the solution is to keep the feds out of it and let local towns and counties determine these laws for themselves, Then you progressives can raise your children on free birth control and sauna together in peace in your localities in California and New York and leave us conservatives to live out lives in the boredom of our ‘born men’ spaces and ‘born women’ spaces. lol
“When your daughter turns fourteen may her English teacher don a wig and accidentally expose himself to her in the bathroom Anthony Weiner style.”
Why would you wish my daughter be sexually harassed by an adult man? You’re an awful person if you can’t disagree with someone without wishing bad things upon their innocent children. And you’ve thoroughly pissed me off with that comment.
” I don’t think women should be in the men’s room either. Nor should single women be in the family restroom, b/c it is for families w/ children. I take a little issue w/ your “women are just as dangerous to kids as men” statement. Possibly to their own children (but restrooms are irrelevant to that), but women are far far less dangerous to stranger’s children than men. I mean, that’s just basic crime stats.”
Women commit more child abuse overall, is all I meant (probably has a lot to do with women more likely being the primary caretakers). I realize it’s mostly family violence but it doesn’t matter to me. If someone beats their own child I don’t trust them around mine no matter the statistics. And one of my friends was fondled by a woman when his mother let him to use the women’s bathroom alone because she was afraid of sending him alone into a men’s room, which I think is probably a rare occurrence but it happens. But anyway, I think an additional unisex bathroom is a good idea for things like this. Transpeople and those who don’t want their young children to use the bathroom alone can use it and everyone can chill about it.
” I don’t think one has anything to do w/ the other. But I agree, women should not be in a men’s bathroom. Even if they think they’re men. They don’t belong there.”
I don’t really care if that happens on occasion, though it’s rather surprising when one just busts in. But I get what you’re saying.
I really hope truth liked his own comment about my daughter, because otherwise there are at least two people who think that’s an okay thing to say.
Wow I step away and Ex gets the question directed to me answered so to-the-point by so many here. Thanks guys and gals!!!
The one and single issue with this law is that it is not meant for sexually ambiguous babies, period. This is an all-inclusive liberal package to alter the normal biological differences.
All I know is that I am so happy not being German right at this moment. But than, this madness is coming to a location near you and me on US soil. Progressivism is a cancer…
“For goodness sake use some logic” – unrealistic expectations Jack?
“unrealistic expectations Jack?”
Well, some people (Ct et al) always use logical arguments even if I disagree with them or the conclusions they draw. Some, like truthseeker, would rather wish sexual harassment on my little girl. I won’t wish anything bad to happen to his kids because we disagree.
Jack if I may – do not take this comment of Truth’s personally as s/he does not even know her. It is the point to be made that progressivism alters the balance and destroys. That’s all… We see this madness in public schools all over this country (did you read about certain districts requiring girls to kiss other girls to gain appreciation for how it feels to be of different sexual orientation?).
“Jack if I may – do not take this comment of Truth’s personally as s/he does not even know her. It is the point to be made that progressivism alters the balance and destroys. That’s all… ”
I don’t care what point he was making. Saying “may an adult man expose himself to your daughter” is not okay. Full stop. It’s screwed up, and it’s pathetic that people can’t make their points without bringing people’s kids into it.
“(did you read about certain districts requiring girls to kiss other girls to gain appreciation for how it feels to be of different sexual orientation?). ”
No, I didn’t read about that. Source? If that happened the way you said, I consider it sexual abuse/harassment. No one should be force to kiss or touch anyone else without their consent, ever.
Jack,
I am every bit as pissed off as you are that because of this liberal madness a lot of people’s daughters will be subjected to these exhibitionists and perverts. I was just trying to make you see the problem and I think it worked cause you seem to have no sense of worry at all until you see it directed at your daughter. I would never actually wish that on anyone’s daughter and if I ever saw somebody treating anybody’s daughter (mine or anybody else’s) in that way I would knock the pervert out. But were it not for the progressively politically inclined then our daughters need not be ‘exposed’ to these sickos at all.
What if my daughter becomes a super-conservative like her mother’s parents (and her mother, to a lesser extent), truth? Would you still want her punished for my opinions or would she be spared your scare scenarios?
TRUTH, most transgender people are like you and me, and have no wish to wave their naughty bits around where children or nonconsenting people can see them. You’ve probably shared a bathroom with a transman at some point, you didn’t see his genitals and it didn’t hurt you. Those who want transgender people treated like the gender they identify as as a general rule don’t want children sexually harassed or women raped, for goodness sake. Some people simply don’t agree with your slippery slope scare arguments.
And make your scenarios involving me if you must, or another adult. It’s creepy to bring people’s kids up into your little scenarios and you’re just going to piss people off instead of getting your point across.
The crap you say, truth, is just as offensive as the people who act like the Catholic Church is a hotbed of pedophiles (when there’s no more abuse of children in the Catholic Church then there is in any other organization that has children around). A really good rule of thumb would be to remember that people who disagree with you are just people, most decent, some not, but they hold their opinions just as dear as you do and generally have similar goals. Most people want a society where people are treated with kindness and respect, and where everyone is safe, we just don’t all agree on how to do it.
And it’s freaking stupid to act like our daughters won’t be exposed to perverts if only you could get rid of the nasty progressives. For goodness sakes. All the abuse committed against me as a child was committed by “conservatives” and “Christians”, as well as the abuse that has happened in the traditionally conservative CC, at Penn State (football programs certainly aren’t liberal, in general), the Boy Scouts (way before their ruling allowing gay scouts) and every other place or organization, conservative or liberal. . There are some bad people everywhere, and no matter how much you think it’s due to progressive policies, it’s not. Otherwise India, Uganda, Russia and Pakistan would be rape-free utopias and all men, women and children would be safe from creeps there.
Edit: Okay, sorry, done ranting.
Jack,
Nobody is saying that it will rid everybody from exposure to sickos; but for crying out loud man…why do you want to invite it. You still haven’t shown any comprehension that this ‘transgender’ law is so vague it gives the person the right to determine what they consider themselves to be and it is ripe for abuse by every pervert and exhibitionist a legal way to get their rocks off. It strikes me as a completely and utterly insane idea to give every pervert and exhibitionist who wants to don a wig a legal way to get their rocks off in front of women.
“Nobody is saying that it will rid everybody from exposure to sickos; but for crying out loud man…why do you want to invite it.”
I don’t invite it. Or encourage it, or whatever you think. I simply don’t agree that unisex bathrooms or whatever will suddenly change the legal standard for sexual harassment or assault, or whatever it is you are so worried about.
So tell me, is it suddenly legal to masturbate in a public place, or show your junk to children or random women in a sexual way? You realize that gay guys use the restrooms with you, right, and when the odd gay guy decides to expose himself in a sexual manner or otherwise harass or abuse another man using the restroom, the same standard for sexual harassment applies like it always has. It doesn’t make any sense to me that there would be any difference with a transgender person using the bathroom of their preference. Gay men may be attracted to other men, but when they use a public restroom, even if they are attracted to the guy at the next urinal they are still legally held to the same standards of sexual harassment and abuse that other men are. Same for transgender people, they aren’t suddenly legally allowed to abuse or harass other people just because they can use a bathroom.
That rational is really lame. I don’t think anybody here is calling for men of any particular religious affiliation to get to share girls showers either. We all understand that pedophiles and perverts come in all walks of life. What is unique to progressives is your rationalization that because there have been priests and conservative men who abused women that it somehow must be safe exposing girls to transgender or cross-dressing men. I think it is assinine for you or anybody else to want don’t want ANY men to be able to put on a wig and shower with the ladies. Not transgenders; not priests; not teachers.
Jack ~ I don’t think anyone is saying that it’s the transgender people who would behave in harrassing manners. The point is that it would be people abusing the anyone can go into any restroom policy and/or pretend to be transgender in order to get close to women who are in a vulnerable position … I mean, I think.
“What is unique to progressives is your rationalization that because there have been priests and conservative men who abused women that it somehow must be safe exposing girls to transgender or cross-dressing men.”
Uh, who said that because priests and conservatives have abused people (not just women for pity’s sake everyone always ignores male victims) that equals that all transgender and “cross-dressers” (cross-dressing men do not think they are women, and generally just want to be men who wear dresses, nothing wrong with that) are perfectly safe. I was simply responding to your idiocy that progressive policies are what’s exposing people to perverts. It’s not invalid to point out there is just as much abuse and harassment in conservative dominated areas and organizations.
“I think it is assinine for you or anybody else to want don’t want ANY men to be able to put on a wig and shower with the ladies. Not transgenders; not priests; not teachers.”
I haven’t talked about showering, at all, I was speaking about unisex restrooms and the like. You seem to think they are a bastion of perversion and abuse, when there’s no evidence for it. I do think that there’s something to be said for having women and men only spaces for things like showering (though I don’t get why ANYONE gets naked around strangers, when I shower at the pool I wear my suit, I don’t get naked in front of groups of random strangers ever). Do people generally run around naked in school restrooms or what? And if you’re talking about Cali I think that new rule only applied to the kids, but I’m not sure.
Jack, this law goes way beyond unisex bathrooms; but even as far as unisex bathrooms go, I never brought my kid into a bathroom that was occupied by a woman. If it was occupied then I respected her privacy and waited till she was done using the facility before bringing my kid in to use any bathroom. And I certainly never would have considered using it myself while she was using it.
“And if you’re talking about Cali I think that new rule only applied to the kids, but I’m not sure.”
Think again.
OK, well, maybe I was wrong … but as you all stated, there are perverts in every demographic. Sure, it wouldn’t suddenly be acceptable, but legal recourse does not undo.
“Jack, this law goes way beyond unisex bathrooms; but even as far as unisex bathrooms go, I never brought my kid into a bathroom that was occupied by a woman. If it was occupied then I respected her privacy and waited till she was done using the facility before bringing my kid in to use any bathroom.”
Hmm, well obviously if it’s a single bathroom with one toilet you’re not gonna barge in there, but why does it matter if it’s a multiple-stalled, unisex bathroom? If someone uses a unisex bathroom they should know that someone of the opposite gender could be using the sink or changing their kid or using a toilet in another stall, and if they aren’t comfortable with that then they shouldn’t use a unisex bathroom. I’m not gonna have my son pee his pants or my daughter have a dirty diaper on for a longer time on the off-chance that a woman doesn’t know what unisex means. If you’re talking about a woman using the men’s room for whatever reason (ladies out of order, or too busy) that might be a bit different, but she’s the one who chose to use it (probably not very polite to go use the urinal though if she’s in there, I would never do that).
Since you’re the one who apparently knows exactly what whatever law you’re talking about, explain how it goes “way beyond” unisex bathrooms and explain how it gives perverts legal rights to sexually harass people. Facts please, not assumptions, slippery slopes or scare tactics.
No LifeJoy, you were not wrong. All kinds of perverts would use this law to get away with exposure etc. and people would have no legal recourse. Any guy who got accused would say it was incidental or accidental exposure. It is insanity.
” Sure, it wouldn’t suddenly be acceptable, but legal recourse does not undo.”
What legal recourse? People keep saying this, but I don’t see where allowing transpeople to use the bathrooms of their preference gives them a legal recourse to anything but use the restroom.
Truth, when men sexually expose themselves or fondle young boys in public restrooms, or say sexual things to them, or any other illegal or inappropriate contact or exposure, do they simply say “it was an accident!!” and they get off the hook? Is that what the law is?
Or heck, forget young boys, are they allowed to do that to other men (if they can get away with it without getting a butt-kicking)? Is is legal to sexually harass or abuse other men because it’s legal to use the same restrooms as them?
Jack ~ Sorry, I was referring to harrassing behavior by “it.” You keep saying there wouldn’t suddenly be different standards of behavior. It would still be illegal to do x,y, or z. But my point is that is not much comfort after being victimized.
Here’s a question for you: in your mind why do we have separate restrooms at all?
Jack, if you said you didn’t think casual pot smokers should be executed there are those who would claim that meant you would be perfectly comfortable with your grandmother being forcibly injected with heroin.
The types of folks that are being discussed are amongst the least likely to be a threat to children or even other adults. Men in dresses harassing children? Tell me it ain’t so. Where?
Jack, Correct me if I am wrong but according to this law if a seventeen year senior in high school says he perceives himself as a girl then he can walk into the girls locker room when our daughters are changing and showering and he can get naked himself and there would be no legal recourse to stop him.
I really can’t believe people buy into this crap. When living with progressives; reality is truly stranger then fiction.
“Jack, if you said you didn’t think casual pot smokers whould be executed there are those who would claim that meant you would be perfectly comfortable with your grandmother being forcibly injected with heroin.”
Lol. Well someone did tell me once, can’t remember who, that because I don’t think prosecuting any drug addicts for using meant that I didn’t care about drug addicts (yes, my recovering junkie self, who spends whatever free time I have at the shelter for addicted and abused runaways and homeless teens, totally doesn’t care about drug addicts).
” The types of folks that are being discussed are amongst the least likely to be a threat to children or even other adults. Men in dresses harassing children? Tell me it ain’t so. Where?”
Nah, I think people are people, and I don’t think there’s much of a difference on whether someone is a “bad” person based on such factors. I do think that transpeople are much more likely to be hurt by someone else than hurt someone else, though, simply because abuse and violence against trans people is disgustingly, shamefully high.
It seems that people are more worried about straight, cismen taking advantage of the law to pose as transgender, than they are about the transgender people themselves. Which is a valid concern, but not much of one. It would be like not allowing gay and bi men use ANY restrooms (maybe the gay ones should use the women’s and the bisexual ones should use the bushes? Or something?) on the off chance they’ll see a guy they think is attractive.
Like I said before, I do think it’s fine to have restrooms that are designated for biological males and females, mostly for the comfort and peace of mind of the females. But I don’t see the problem with having an additional restroom designated as unisex or something like that, so transpeople don’t feel forced to use a restroom they aren’t comfortable in (and the statistics are very clear that it’s not safe for transwomen to use men’s room, they are in grave danger from that). That’s how they should solve the issue in the school system, in my opinion, designate a bathroom as unisex. They can have a locker room as unisex as well (but I think they should have a teacher supervise because teenagers do have hormones out of control). I don’t know about the sports teams though, it seems unfair to let biological males compete against biological females, it’s just factual that they have a physical advantage in general. I’ll have to think about that one.
“Jack, Correct me if I am wrong but according to this law if a seventeen year senior in high school says he perceives himself as a girl then he can walk into the girls locker room when our daughters are changing and showering and he can get naked himself and there would be no legal recourse to stop him. ”
Okay, for one I don’t agree with the California law in most of it’s aspects. I think the whole letting biological males compete against biological females in sports is unfair, even if the biological male is identified as a girl she’s going to have a physical advantage, I don’t want a female athlete to lose any scholarships or whatever because someone else had that advantage. Women have been historically disadvantaged in the sports world in regards to scholarships and such anyway, there’s no need to make this harder for physically talented females.
If it were up to me I’d have three locker rooms (or however many they need depending on how big the student body is). One for boys, one for girls, and one unisex. It’s really hard on a feminine boy or a male who identifies as a girl in the male locker rooms, there is a lot of bullying and disturbing reports of sexual and physical assaults. Maybe having a supervised environment like an additional locker room will help that. Same thing with restrooms. And it goes without saying I think there needs to be a lot more done about the bullying of all children, especially LGBT children, and this “solution” is really more of a poorly done band-aid rather than actually attacking the issue.
Sorry Lifejoy you asked me a question and I didn’t notice.
” Here’s a question for you: in your mind why do we have separate restrooms at all? ”
Well, 98% or so of biological males identify as men, and 98% or so of biological females identify as women. Also, only like 5% or so of people of either gender are gay. So it makes sense to to have separate restrooms for the privacy and comfort of everyone involved. I don’t think most women want to see men at the urinal (and I’ve never seen a unisex bathroom that had a urinal), I don’t think many men would feel comfortable with that either, and I don’t think most women would feel comfortable adjusting their bra or whatever it is that women get up to in the bathroom other than go into the stalls. So I do get the need/want for gender segregated spaces.
I just don’t see the issues with having a unisex space as well. It’s probably safer for more feminine males or those who don’t identify as male, and probably for those who don’t identify as women too (violence against FTM trans people is less than that against MTF, but it still definitely exists). There’s also the issue me and other single fathers, or fathers who are the primary caretakers of their kids, finding a place we can take our kids to the restroom that’s appropriate and safe. I don’t really want to bring my daughter (when she’s older, as a toddler it’s not the hugest deal except for the lack of changing tables) into the men’s room, and I’m sure not going to let her use the public restrooms alone when she’s five or six. I think it’s more accepted for women to bring their young boys into the women’s restrooms with them, but still a unisex bathroom gives them another option. I don’t get all this freaking out and slippery slope arguments that people keep using.
OK Jack, So you disagree with most aspects of the law but you see no slippery slope in letting seventeen year old males legally enter into the girls locker room cause they say they identify themselves as female. Sounds pretty slippery and STUPID.
Progressive mind-think Alert:
“Is it so hateful and bigoted for schools to give awards to the people who get better grades. Those awards should be equally available to the students who do not do as well academically. A fairer system would place people of all achievement levels on the honor rolls.”
That’s not a “progressive” mindset (it’s a weirdo, “everyone is equally good at everything!” type of thinking, and I’ve seen people of all persuasions think similarly) and I’ve never heard of anyone thinking that academically talented children and hard workers shouldn’t be rewarded AT ALL. I do see things like giving trophies to all kids instead of the winners when it comes to sports and such, which I think is silly. Kids have to learn at some point that you’re not always going to win, but that just means you work harder or find something you’re good at.
I do know that many people think our schools need some work (which is true) and there are many different ways we can work on this. I like the thought of helping kids in high school find where their talents lie and help them work in that direction. If they are great with their hands but not particularly good at academics, they should get a custom tailored scholastic plan geared towards helping them train towards being a mechanic, or a welder, or a plumber or something like that (fine jobs and can be well paying). Of course everyone should be taught basics and get a solid, well-rounded education, but I don’t think we’re doing a great job at helping kids find their individual skills and how to develop them.
I don’t think everyone is cut out for scholastic achievement and I think it’s a shame our schools are kinda “one size fits all”, so kids feel stupid if they aren’t great at things like math. Not everyone has to go to college, but everyone has some type of skill or talent, and schools should help kids find what they are good at and what is their best shot at making a good career for themselves.
Speaking of school, yesterday was my son’s first day of kindergarten. I do not want him to get any older! But his teacher told me he seems really advanced for his age so I was very proud of him. :) I’m not doing a terrible job.
Jack, just caught your response to my comment: you need to look up what is going on in public schools today. I assure you that your idea of progressivism would dissipate and you would run to your Congressman screaming obscenities. LOL.
Jack ~ We do agree on that schools should help kids find their talents. Some schools are indeed doing better with this. God made everyone with their own talents! Blessings to your little guy at school. I know it is emotional … If I don’t work at it, I can put myself into a panic about them growing up. My oldest started 1st grade today! God made them to grow up. Just appreciate every moment!
I want to make it clear that men abuse children sexually and otherwise at a much higher rate than women do - other than their own which yes, women are around way more often but even then the abuse is not as violent. And no I am not downplaying women’s abuse of children but just pointing out statistics. To insinuate that we should have unisex bathrooms because women also abuse children is absolutely ridiculous.
From what Jack says, it sounds like male only areas are a reflection of this male violence statistic (I’ve never been harassed by a female in a restroom, locker room, changing area but have been harassed and more by quite a few males outside of one) and I’m sorry for any guy who has had to deal with garbage in these areas but making restrooms unisex is not the answer. Family restrooms are great and I wish there were more of them.
Males do not belong in bathrooms, locker rooms, or changing areas with females. I have been asked to take little girls into the bathroom by their fathers when there was no family restroom available. I guess these dads thought it better their daughters use a female’s bathroom with a female stranger than expose her to a male only bathroom.
Do people generally run around naked in school restrooms or what?
I have seen many females changing in restrooms if the locker/changing room is busy or doesn’t exist. Halloween, school dances, weddings, plays, going out after work, etc. I have seen women down to underclothes using restroom sinks on hot days to wash up. I have seen women changing little girls who had their big girl underwear on but have had an accident. Stalls are smaller to change in as well as dirtier. So, no, females do not “generally run around naked”, Jack, but we do not want men in there. There may be females who feel differently but I haven’t met any yet and if any women reading this feel differently, I’d like to hear from them.
To imply that Germany’s concern on this topic is with babies that are born sexually ambiguous is either very naive or very disingenuous.
I like the thought of helping kids in high school find where their talents lie and help them work in that direction.
Totally agree.
Correction: I was once harassed in a bathroom by a female co-worker. She had been harassing me elsewhere at work and once she said something to me in the bathroom as well. This is the same woman who believes all special ed students should be sterilized.
“I want to make it clear that men abuse children sexually and otherwise at a much higher rate than women do - other than their own which yes, women are around way more often but even then the abuse is not as violent. And no I am not downplaying women’s abuse of children but just pointing out statistics. To insinuate that we should have unisex bathrooms because women also abuse children is absolutely ridiculous.”
Women commit over half of child abuse when sexual abuse is included, and since men commit sexual abuse at a much higher rate than women do that means that other types of abuse is skewed towards female perpetrators. I don’t know where you get the idea that women commit less non-sexual child abuse other than men do. Like I said I think it’s probably due to women more likely being caretakers. https://www.acf.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/cb/cm11.pdf#page=80. The statistics include neglect, but neglect is abusive. I don’t know where you’re getting that women abuse children less violently though? I don’t know any stats on that. But sometimes they are really violent. If you’re tiny and she’s an adult she can hurt you. People always think it’s not a big deal but it is. They think it can’t be that bad but anyone can hurt a kid, they’re small. Even the boys can be hurt badly even if people think they’re just being babies about it.
And I didn’t say that unisex bathrooms should exist because women also abuse children, I stated my reasons for thinking they are a good idea to have as an option above. I was just talking about how I don’t get why people are just fine with strange women around their kids.
“I have been asked to take little girls into the bathroom by their fathers when there was no family restroom available. I guess these dads thought it better their daughters use a female’s bathroom with a female stranger than expose her to a male only bathroom. ”
I would never in a million years let a stranger of either gender take my child anywhere without me. I can’t believe people actually do this, that’s insanity to me.
“So, no, females do not “generally run around naked”, Jack, but we do not want men in there. There may be females who feel differently but I haven’t met any yet and if any women reading this feel differently, I’d like to hear from them.”
I did say that I think that there should be female and male only bathrooms as well. I think unisex bathrooms should be an option as well, and no one would force you to use one I should hope.
Ninek, you are the voice of reason here, WOW. Please keep going!!!
Too much fixation on bathrooms for the past couple of days. I am beginning to look over my shoulder in the bathrooms in my own house and that is pathetic.
I don’t know where you get the idea that women commit less non-sexual child abuse other than men do. Like I said I think it’s probably due to women more likely being caretakers.
Right, Jack. I agreed. Women only commit more because they are around children more. If all time spent around children were equal, men are more violent with children than women. (we could factor in abortion but then more than half of those are coerced).
Page 68 of your link, Jack, says: More than one-half (53.6%) of perpetrators were women and 45.1 percent of perpetrators were men I think women are around children at a higher rate than 53.6% (parenting, day cares, schools) or do you disagree? I agree neglect is abusive but are dead-beat parents factored in as neglectful? You can hardly neglect a child you choose not to raise. Safety programs tell children that if they are lost they are much safer to ask a woman for help than a man.
Again, I will restate that I am not downplaying women’s abuse of children.
A police chief is one of my sources and I have looked at other stats found in sources similar to the one you provided.
I believe both men and women are becoming more violent as a whole.
Jack, congrats on your son’s first day at school! I hope your fridge is soon bedecked with awesome projects.
This subject obviously touches a nerve with a lot of us. I wish that ‘progressives’ were as worried about reading, writing, and all those essentials in school. If the kids were so busy with learning, maybe we could keep them too busy to bully. Encouraging transsexual behavior in school children (as in the California public schools as of last week) is NOT going to prepare children to excel in the future or reduce bullying. Give children firm priorities: Learn all you can today, and after you are 18, you have the whole rest of your life to cross-dress. What good is it to cross dress at 12 and ignore your studies because you’re so busy creating your “identity”? Wait till graduation, then go crazy personally expressing yourself with a nice firm foundation laid for your future.
Your clothing styles are NOT as important as your brain and physical health. Sheesh, I’m like this far from pushing for school uniforms for everyone!
You might not downplay it but a lot of people do. “Oh no wonder she beats him, he’s such an awful kid, I’d whip him too” and people make excuses all the time. “She’s just stressed out, her husband works all the time. It’s not that bad anyway.”
Dead-beat parents aren’t factored in (majority male) but neither are abortions (all female, but I’d agree many are coerced). Even if half are coerced, that’s still 600K babies a year that women are responsible for harming. But anyway I don’t really want to argue about which gender is worse or better, I’ve just seen way too many street kids who’s mothers beat them rather mercilessly or sold them into prostitution for crack, and I have my own experiences. I simply don’t believe women are that much less violent than men (towards their family at least). And I do believe that people are less likely to report violent crimes committed by women but I have no proof of that, it’s just what I’ve seen.
But anyway it’s besides the point, it was basically just a throwaway comment of mine because I seriously am never going to get why people feel safe with their kids around strangers just because they are female. I do agree that lost kids should find a woman (I tell my son to look for a woman with kids first if he gets lost), because of the lower reported rates of sexual abuse.
Oh Prax speaking of people who want special needs people sterilized/euthanized/any other eugenics type stuff, I just saw this on Twitter, I’m really hoping it’s just a sick joke and was never actually given to the parent of an autistic child. Warning to anyone with special needs children, it’s really cruel. https://twitter.com/lennonandmaisy/status/369301618518290434/photo/1
I’m linking it because I want people to be as angry about it as I am.
Jack, from the hate I have seen directed at special needs folks, it is probably a real letter. Ugh.
My friend has an autistic son and she took him along to her baby’s doctor’s appointment. When the doc was looking over the baby, the doctor nodded towards the autistic boy and said, “He’s not like him, is he?” Female doc, btw. Unbelievably nasty.
I am beginning to look over my shoulder in the bathrooms in my own house and that is pathetic.
Just for you, Thomas, I’m holding back from posting the Psycho Shower Scene. (:
“I did say that I think that there should be female and male only bathrooms as well.”
If it’s female only, then only females should be able to go in. Actual females. Then we have no argument. I have no problem with places making unisex facilities available (if they want to).
As for men vs. women, I’ll repeat, that women may certainly be as great a danger to their own children, but you are going to be hard pressed to convince me that children face as great a danger from women who are not their caretakers as they do from men who are strangers to them. Who really fears a stranger grabbing their kid and beating them or neglecting them? That doesn’t happen. The danger from strangers is sexual abuse and that danger is overwhelmingly from men.
The issue with a gay man using the men’s bathroom is not the same as a transgendered man using the women’s bathroom.
That letter is enraging.
“Who really fears a stranger grabbing their kid and beating them or neglecting them? ”
Well I fear it, not so much them getting grabbed by strangers (which DOES happen on occasion, you have mentally ill women who want a child and couldn’t have one for whatever reason, or women who work with the prostitution rings in big cities where the people who run it know that no one will look twice at a woman carrying a screaming kid out of a story). I worry about things like the randoms my ex lets babysit when she has parenting time, she seems to think that it’s just fine to let people you barely know watch the kids as long as they’re women. I fully admit my experiences have probably damaged me and made me rather paranoid, but I’d rather not take my chances and have my kids be part of that statistic no matter how small it supposedly is. I’ve already annoyed my son’s teacher because I’ve randomly shown up every day to make sure he’s okay, but I think she’s understanding. She asked if he was the first kid I’ve had go to school, and if I were a single dad and said I’m welcome to stop by if I’m worried.
I’m just never going to get how people are okay with strangers or people who don’t know well around their kids alone whether they are women or not, I don’t know how you don’t worry about that.
If it’s female only, then only females should be able to go in. Actual females. Then we have no argument. I have no problem with places making unisex facilities available (if they want to).
Absolutely.
The danger from strangers is sexual abuse and that danger is overwhelmingly from men.
And sexual abuse is also physical abuse.
Yes sexual abuse is physical abuse, and women do that on occasion too, just not nearly as often. I just don’t understand why people don’t worry about this stuff at all, am I seriously the only person who worries about women I don’t know well around my kids? And do people let their young boys use public restrooms alone, like men’s rooms? Boys are at risk too even if people don’t talk about it as much.
Thanks Praxedes, I think I got a whiplash and my wife and kids are worried. LOL…
Jack,
That story about the family with the autistic child is all over the internet now.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/08/19/read-the-unbelievably-hateful-letter-sent-to-family-with-autistic-child-do-the-right-thing-and-move-or-euthanize-him/
Our world is so confused, complicated, perverted and destructive, it is not right. I am so concerned and burdened for children and parents today. Jack don’t agree with all you have said but I am moved with compassion for you and your children. I do agree that no one should watch your children unless it is someone you or your ex can trust and know very well. I hope you can find a compromise that you both can live with on this issue.
I have worked with teens for years. I want to address an issue that high school students have recently told me about. Several students have told me that every since the LGBT clubs have become normalized and “celebrated”, they now see open displays of PDA(Public Displays of Affection) in hallways during school hours and afterschool at football and basketball games (parents are confirming this stuff is going on in the bleachers). Students are complaining that there is even sexual activity going on in the bathrooms by gay and lesbian students and if they act like they don’t like it that the ”straight” kids are experiencing bullying, intimidation and threats. They told me if they notify the teachers “they don’t do anything because they are afraid that they will be accused of being homophobic bigots”. So who is going to protect the good kids?”. You have no idea what these teens and teachers who want to stand up for respectful, moral behavior in schools are experiencing since the radical, militant LGBT agenda has taken over. NO child should ever be bullied no matter what, but the situation is now being reversed at many schools. Public school teachers I have talked to say “unless the parents stand up, speak out and help us our hands are tied”. One school has decided to stop having sock-hops because lesbian students have stood on the dance floor groping and necking each other (no, the hetero students are not allowed to do this either). The indoctrination PC police or progressive parents will come after them if the speak out. I had a veteran teacher tell me every since the president “came out of the closet endorsing SSM” a few months ago the teens are now aggressively acting out more sexually than she has ever seen, The Pandora’s box is now open, you ain’t seen nothing yet unless the majority of the country speaks out at the ballot box. I don’t hate or discriminate but religious liberty is being taken away from those who don’t celebrate LGBT. Where is the tolerance for moral or religious students, parents, teachers, clergy, or other adults?
NO child should ever be bullied no matter what but the situation is now being reversed at many schools.
Seeing it and experiencing it firsthand.
“I do agree that no one should watch your children unless it is someone you or your ex can trust and know very well. I hope you can find a compromise that you both can live with on this issue.”
See, I don’t think I’m just crazy, I don’t think it’s wrong to want to know the people who are alone with my kids and be able to be reasonably confident that they aren’t abusers or creeps. I don’t think gender matters, or at least it doesn’t make me feel better. Maybe abuse by women isn’t as bad or whatever or they are less likely to abuse unless they are given a reason, I’m not sure what people mean. But I still don’t want people I don’t know alone with my kids. Their mom doesn’t agree with me at all.
” So who is going to protect the good kids?”
I want all kids protected, but I don’t really like labeling some kids good and some kids bad. Who knows what is going on in the “bad” kids homes? If they are acting out sexually, in public, something has gone wrong somewhere, they probably need some help. And I do know that sometimes if you feel like no matter what you’re perverted sometimes you act out sexually, because you feel like it doesn’t matter since you’re not “good” and never have been, so that might have something to do with it as well.
What a group of 20-somethings told me last week was this: that the LGA-Z students are exhibiting is complete and total identification with being gay, etc. That it is very difficult to engage the students on any other level because they are seeing every aspect of their own lives through the lense of their self-assigned LGA-Z identities. For example, ”we can’t talk about yesterday’s class quiz results because it’s all about being gay..” In other words, if a teacher doesn’t give you points to boost your failing score, it’s because he’s homophobic. If another student doesn’t want to date you, it’s because he or she is homophobic. Not too far from “if you criticize Obama, it must be because you’re racist.”
Even one of my 40-something friends is becoming weary of this “identity.” He told me recently that he would just love to plan an outing with his partner that’s merely about ‘where to go for dinner’ instead of ‘where to go for gay-friendly dinner’ or ‘where to go on a weekend vacation’ not merely ‘where to go for the most gay weekend vacation.’ He said, “Sometimes, I just want to go out for the evening like a regular person and not always be asking if it’s gay enough for us!” While his friends are deeply invested in the gay identity.
Praxedes I am sorry if I came across as snippy earlier, I just get upset when people say that mothers aren’t as violent with their kids. I mean, I’m missing an organ because of mine and I have dozens of scars. It just comes across as gaslighting to me which I think is probably my fault for not understanding correctly. So I’m sorry if I came across as rude.
I didn’t think you came across as snippy at all, Jack. I was just pointing out that very few women want to share certain areas with men for good reason. I do know that women abuse their children and husbands/significant others, including sexual abuse. I have called the police and social services on women.
I am glad you got away from your ex.
I was talking about my mom, not my ex. My ex thank goodness doesn’t hurt my children. Apparently she hit her new boyfriend though, which is unfortunate, I was hoping it was just me that she had issues with but apparently not.
“I’m just never going to get how people are okay with strangers or people who don’t know well around their kids alone whether they are women or not, I don’t know how you don’t worry about that. ”
No, that’s not what I’m saying at all. I wouldn’t let a strange woman take my kids into a bathroom and I certainly wouldn’t trust someone I didn’t know extremely well to watch them. I’m not talking in any way about allowing a woman you don’t know to have direct interaction with and responsibility for your kids. I’m just saying that, in general, people can worry much LESS sending or bringing their kids into a female only restroom b/c it is very very unusual for the type of abuse women engage in to be perpetrated against children who are not their own or who are not at least under their control in some way. Of course there are exceptions (like you mentioned), so you have to be vigilant always, but the worry is rightfully different for men and women.
My bad for not reading your post more carefully, Jack.
I’m glad you got away from your mom and your ex! You and your children deserve to live free of abuse.
I hope your little guy will enjoy school!
To clarify the teens comments about “who is going to protect the “good” kids?; that was made in reference to students standing up for ”respectful, moral behavior in school”, they want to see the inappropriate behavior stopped whether the student is LGBT or straight and I totally agree with them. These teens are quite tolerant of LGBT students, they just don’t want it shoved “down their throat” (some have seen deep French kissing and sexual activity in school). ALL students are to refrain from inappropriate PDA and sexual behaviors in school and during school sponsored activities. I have lots of family and friends who are educators and school administrators it is totally out of control in the public schools that are embracing the LGBT club agenda.
Jack, how are the sexually acting out kids going to get “help” btw when they are identifying with and embracing radical, activist, LGBT “in your face” behavior where teachers and other students (who want a respectful school environment) are “dared” to say anything about their inappropriate behavior because they will be accused of being homophobic bigots. I know of excellent, veteran teachers who cannot wait to retire because some schools are becoming like “a gay pride parade”.
I sincerely hope and pray your children will be kept safe Jack.
“that was made in reference to students standing up for ”respectful, moral behavior in school””
I know. Calling them “the good kids” implies that the people committing the behavior that needs stopped are “the bad kids”. I’m sure the upstanding moral kids have issues of their own and that the PDA-having kids have their good points. It should be focused on behavior, not who the person is (if that’s what it’s about). If you get called or it’s implied that you’re a “bad kid” over and over it becomes of self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts for some people. I see it with the “worthless punk” street kids, usually the boys (people sometimes care about the girls, people worry about them, but the boys are usually just seen as criminals).
Maybe teachers who are worried about what confused and inappropriately acting teenagers will call them are better off not teaching anymore. I find that just slightly pathetic.
Ex-GOP says:
August 19, 2013 at 3:26 pm
Seriously? You have the world shaped that narrowly?
Yes…. reality is very real, and solid, and seemingly “narrow” to the likes of you. Something like gender is quite inflexible — it cannot be changed by legislation, or surgical mutilation, or a mental decision to dress and live like the complementary gender.
And since we are so foolish as to believe that reality can be changed by wishing hard enough — or by voting about it, or by some court decision — then our culture is too foolish to survive. Indeed, this is already the case and we are already living in TEOTWAWKI.
Jack I get your point about the good and bad kids.
These veteran teachers and administrators are not worried about what the teens “will call them”, they are worried about the school administration and parents who are on board with the LGBT cause going after them for trying to keep the school a respectful environment. This is already happening. I know a great veteran principal who was doing a great job at his school but a new superintendent found out he was an Evangelical Christian (he did not bring this up), this person was on his case for over a year before they left. I guarantee you the superintendent of schools, asst. superintendent, principal and even the school board can make a teacher’s (or lower level administrators) life miserable if they choose.
Lol that makes much more sense. I had this picture in my head of “veteran teachers” all shaking in their boots that they were gonna be called homophobes by the kids. Haha.