Lunch Break: Thoughts on abortion by John Piper
Jan.17, 2011 12:00 pm |
Video of the day |
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Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Excellent!!
Hi Carla, I agree!
Excellent analogy – we pro-lifers are abortion “abolitionists”. This would make a GREAT pro-life television commercial, IMHO.
Janet,
I am a bit biased. John Piper’s church is near us and I am pretty sure we have ALL of his books and a few of his wife Noel’s. :)
Here’s more!!
http://www.desiringgod.org/resource-library/topic-index/abortion
My favorite
http://www.ondoctrine.com/2pip1801.htm
That Piper guy is sorta clever, I suppose. ;)
We’re doing his TULIP seminar films at my church right now. So much awesome stuff he unpacks.
The slave at least had the possibility of defending himself and even prevaling in the struggle against his master no matter how short lived that victory might be.
The slave had the possibility of running away and some were successful in their attempt.
The slave at least had a voice and he could protest his bondage and declare his humanity even if only he were listening.
The pre-natal human has none of those advantages. He is betrayed by the ones who should be most concerned with his welfare and he is hidden from sight and murdered behind closed doors and any who would dare to come to his aid does so at the risk of their own life, liberty and wealth. His remains are discarded with the trash and treated like a bio-hazard.
Slaves were fully developed, sentient post born human being as opposed to fetuses which are fully dependent on body in which they developing. They were deprived of excercising their free will – something that fetuses don’t have.
But yeah, those women who abort are vicious murderers. What, “yor bro ken,” should we do with these heathen females. They need to be severely punished for their sins. Right?
John Piper – now he’s a model of sanity:
“A day after tornados and storms slammed the Midwest, John Piper, a prolific author and preaching pastor of Bethlehem Baptist Church in Minneapolis, called an out-of-the-blue tornado that struck downtown Minneapolis Aug. 19 a “warning” from God to the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, whose delegates were meeting there to debate a liberalized policy on homosexuality…”
Whew. It’s a good thing you don’t come here all that often, CC to NOT read all of this prolife propaganda!!
LOL
I’ve always like this video by Mr. Piper. “No Mr. President..”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O68MByaMVdM
Ooh. Nice one, psalm!!! Thank you!
That is an excellent video, psalm. I’m absolutely amazed.
CC @ 6:01 PM,
A sign of insanity? No. Piper was obviously trying to catch people’s attention with his comments. Looks like he succeeded because he caught yours. By the way, God gives us signs all the time. We have to keep our eyes and minds open.
There are some other parallels. There are many in the church today who are have little regard for pre-born human beings. They dismiss the whole issue as political, something the church must avoid.
Both Lincoln and Frederick Douglas spoke of people like them. People who were afraid to pray for the slave and today will not pray for the pre-born. They know precisely to the penny how much they get in offerings, but know not how many children die. They don’t want to know.
I was born premie. Would you say I had free will? I was helpless, in a glass box. I was totally dependent on doctors and nurses. I was post born, but was I sentient? What day was I sentient? Was it quarter to nine or only eight thirty? Can you legally terminate my life based on my willpower and consciousness? Is not my heartbeat enough? Each day, the developing human being grows stronger and bigger. Today it is legal to kill a child the same age as I when I went home with my family. Why? My location? Because I made it out early I have more legal right to live that the child next to me, who was conceived on the same day?
The pro-abortion argument crumbles in the face of biology. It crumbles under the weight of my unique DNA, my earliest momentum toward maturity, my fetal development. The mothers who undergo abortion do not act alone or in a vacuum. Everyone along the way bears some responsibility for the crime. Maybe it’s reasonable for a post abortive woman to ask, what will be the statute of limitations on murder after abortion is no longer legal? It’s a good question but one that need not keep you awake at night. A large segment of the active pro-life movement consists of port-abortive women. We obviously don’t want to put all our selves into jail or the hapless teenage girl who aborted her child yesterday. CC, you just have to trust us. Trust women. That’s right. Trust women.
It’s so great to hear John Piper and RC Sproul and other pastors speaking up against abortion. This needs to happen MUCH MORE.
In my whole life the only time I have heard anyone speak about abortion in the churches I’ve attended is when I spoke about it (in conjunction with 40 Days of Life) and I’m just a regular person, not a pastor or in the leadership.
I’m interested to know how is it in your church if you attend one…..
I am Catholic and during every Mass we pray for the unborn. Right to life groups are frequent guests after Mass to hand out info. Our Church bulletin keeps track of local right to life activities in the diocese.
I’m wondering why this is so rare in a lot of Protestant churches…..
CC says: January 17, 2011 at 5:59 pm
“Slaves were fully developed, sentient post born human being as opposed to fetuses which are fully dependent on body in which they developing. ”
“They were deprived of excercising their free will – something that fetuses don’t have.”
“But yeah, those women who abort are vicious murderers.”
”
What, “yor bro ken,” should we do with these heathen females. They need to be severely punished for their sins. Right?”
===========================================================
CC,
When your mother was pregnant with YOU what species of embryo/fetus was resident in her uterus?
You throw down the word ‘fetus’ like bigots throw down ‘nigger’.
The pro-slavery folks did not recognize their african slaves as fellow human beings.
The NAZIs and the muslim extremists of today do not recognize Jews as fellow human beings.
I am not a woman, but I have been present for the pregnancies and births of five of my children and I am sure if you ask my wife she will attest that each of those five children were exercising their will while they were still en utero. They all chose to live and none chose to die while they were still in the womb. Some chose to suck their thumbs and to protest when they did not care for the unpleasant effects on them of the food their mom was eating.
CC, let us take you from your warm and safe environment and air drop in to one of Americas many wilderness areas with nothing but the clothes you are wearing and see just how long you survive. Unless you are the rare inidividual who has trained to live off the land you would be dead in days if not hours. So much for your post natal independence.
You do not have to be ‘vicious’ to be guilty of murder. It does not have to be a hate crime to be murder.
One of the evidences of a ‘sociopath’ is a complete lack of emotion toward their victims.
People who are guilty of committing ’murder’, by their act or by their complicity, should be judged and punished according to existing criminal statutes. Formerly pregnant women who have chosen to kill their pre-natal children do not deserve any special treatment. That would be discrimination, which is contrary to justice.
Justice should be administered equally to heathens and non-heathens. Their pre-natal children are equally human.[One of the nasty truths which we christians don’t like to talk about is christians are aborting at about the same rate as ‘heathens’, to use YOUR word.]
‘Sin’ is not a legal concept, but a religious one. It is not the states business to punish one for their ‘sin’ unless their ‘sin’ violates an existing statute, like say ‘homicide’.
But now we are back to first question:
When your mom was pregnant with you, what species of embryo/fetus were you?
You may ask your mom, or a fifth grader, if you like.
I vote that as the best responding post of the year.
I was a preemie too. And I was born at 6 mos gestation – right at the cut-off of a local ‘doctor’ who performs abortions at 24 weeks.
I have talked personally with Gianna Jessen – abortion survivor – and she asks with great clarity – ‘if abortion is about women’s rights – then where were mine?’
She is fortunate indeed to survive a saline abortion at 7 months gestation. And it was by the grace of God that the doctor was not on hand when she was born alive and the nurse had her brought to the hospital. Today that baby would have been left to die or helped to die, since the woman’s original intent on the death of the child by abortion holds the weight.
So if I was human and valuable at 6 months, why aren’t other children? If my children were valuable to me in my womb at their conception and if someone else thought they were not valuable or not human at that time – why would their status change based on what someone thought?
Could it be that the thought process of value and perception can be flawed? And if so, why are we relying on that as a determinate of worth? of humanness? of life and death? why not try to see all humans as having value and dignity, and treat them accordingly?
I think as a society and as individuals, we can. Love is big.