38 years after Roe, the need to shout from the rooftops why choice is a right and a positive aspect of women’s lives is obvious.
Furthermore, an outspoken campaign of truth-telling about what abortion actually is, who has them and why, will diminish fears about post-operative risks including depression and post-traumatic stress.
~Eleanor Bader, RH Reality Check, January 10
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Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
So this person is admitting that there actually ARE “post-operative risks?”
What “choice” is she talking about? If it is killing all human beings in the unborn stage, why doesn’t she just say so? Why hide behind evasive language like “choice”?
Also, “women’s lives”? Somebody should remind the people at RH “Reality” “Check” that they would have allowed every single woman alive today to have been killed in the first nine months of life.
If you favor allowing unlimited killing of women, how can you care about anything else that happens?
Oh yes. Truth telling. Yes. Can hardly wait to hear the truth telling about what abortion actually is.
Bring it.
Exactly what I was thinking Carla! Go ahead shout it from the rooftops! Let’s hear the “truth”!
I read the article. It is all about Christian rock bands Barlow Girl and Skillet and posts some of their lyrics and how the March for Life is packing in the younger generation with its first ever rally.
Then it all wraps up with the QOTD. Hmmmmm.
Peg,
Same wavelength right? :)
“Choice” is a right? “CHOICE”?….Ugh, such cowards. Killing your child is not a right. It will NEVER be a right. There is no such thing.
What solipsistic, entitled, self-serving garbage.
They’ve been screaming their truth (lies) for 38 years and hey, we’re just not buying it. Where’s she been?
Praying for the conversion of the hearts and minds of those who have been hurt by abortion and for those who don’t yet realize the source of their pain. Lord have mercy.
It seems like everything the pro-choice leaders and organizations are advocating is counter-intuitive towards making abortion rare, I mean, if abortion is such a positive thing, why should it be rare?
Exactly, Rachael. And if it’s a right, then why not call it by its name? Why the euphemisms? And if it’s a right, why the need for “privacy”? So, they want to shout from the rooftops, but you have to stay out of their business? What? What’s the matter with them?
I could understand 38 years ago, when women were first fed these lies, and nobody bothered to try to help women NOT feel the need to seek abortions…..Yeah, I can understand that. But now, with everything we know about fetal development, all the technology we have, and what it tells us about life and how amazing it is, and how unique everyone is, and now that we know what abortion is–the blood, the gore, the lies, the selfishness, the despair…..Yes, being pro”choice” is a mental illness. Curable, but a mental illness nonetheless.
You’re right, Carla.
Can you imagine our friends in the abortionist movement and at RH Reality Check actually having a “campaign of truth-telling about what abortion actually is”? It boggles the mind.
There is just no way they can ever do that. The suggestion would almost be funny if it weren’t so tragic.
I’ve gone over this before guys: please don’t call the pro-choice political view a mental illness, because it is a differing political view than your own, which you do not agree with. Although many pro-choice views are inconsistant at best, it is not a mental illness in a true sense. Mental illness is a biological-caused real, valid medical disorder, not just a label you stick on someone you don’t like to stigmatize them, and quite frankly it is demeaning, insensitive, and stigmatizing towards those of us living with mental illness, which affects every aspect of our day to day lives, to use the term in such a careless, callous way. It’s hard enough living with the symptoms of the illness and the stigma we face without you guys adding to it.
I do wish that Eleanor had started her article with the QOTD and then proceeded to do just that!
Commence with the truth telling already!!
I understand what you’re saying (and I have valid, real mental illness in my family)….but the idea that someone actually believes it’s okay to kill their child in the name of choice….Well, that’s insanity, it’s so wrong I don’t know what else to call it. I’m not belittling those with mental illness–I truly feel these people are ill.
Moreover, I wouldn’t refer to these people as EVIL, as many do. Many are well-intentioned, and even very NICE people, even very GOOD people in other aspects.
Rachel, with all due respect… When a species of mammals turns on it’s own young, in numbers and percentages that I see in humans today, one can ONLY conclude that a widespread illness is here. It is not healthy, or natural, or part of a mammal’s evolution to declare war on it’s young, to not only kill it’s own but to advocate killing, set up centers for killing, use healthcare professionals to refer pre-natal patients to that killing, and on and on. It is not the identical mental illness as depression, it is not identical to any other listed diagnosis. But it is an illness, it’s effects are deadly, and sooner or later, it will be officially declared as such.
Illness can be treated. Some illnesses can be cured. Abortion advocates are people who have turned on their own species to the tune of over 52 million pre-natal homicides in the US alone between 1973 and 2008. 52 million babies didn’t die of a philosophical or political cause: they were victims of a fatal, social illness. If it were the birds pecking open their unhatched edges, or bees destroying their own queen and her eggs, veterinarians would absolutely conclude that a pathology was at work. No one is trying to hurt the existing mentally ill, but a the facts are what they are. We can’t change it by wishful thinking.
Thank you, Ninek, for clarifying! You are far more eloquent than I am. :)
By the by, Rachael—I was diagnosed with clinical depression, which I have fought my entire life. I don’t take mental illness lightly AT ALL.
How about we stay focused on abortion and call it for what it is, the killing of a human being, and stick to attacking the pro-choice viewpoint rather than those who hold the viewpoint, and find other ways to express a strong disagreement with their views, and let us continue to try to change the hearts and minds of others.
But they should be ashamed. There isn’t enough shame in this world anymore. Too much shame, that’s not a good thing. But we have NO SHAME left. What they condone and celebrate is shameful—THEY are not shameful, but they are misguided and horribly, horribly wrong.
They don’t try to “understand” us. They shame us all the time. They call us terrorists, they judge us, they lie repeatedly.
What happened to guilt? What happened to shame? It’s not okay to do whatever we want whenever we want. We are not entitled to ANYTHING, except the right to live. The unborn are not even granted that by many, and it’s ruining our world.
I, too am tired of hearing the pro aborts use the word “choice.” But I’ve come to see their deluded thinking is not actually about choosing to abort, but about the wishful desire to “choose” to avoid the consequences of their actions. I think the “right” they keep yelling about is more about the mindset that sex is a right and they want to “choose” who, when, where, and how much sex they want. Not only do they reject the religious and moral constraints of sex, they reject the laws of nature, and feel they shouldn’t be subject to that silly little “sex makes babies” thing. It’s pride pure and simple.
Well, all I have to say is this: if you respect those with mental illness at all, you’ll stop comparing a political viewpoint you disagree with with real mental illness and adding to the stigma and find a different way to express your view.
a political viewpoint you disagree with
Rachael, do you really view the abortion issue this way? As simply a “political viewpoint?”
I don’t really understand why, on this site, it’s not enough to be pro-life…..You have to only say and believe the exact same things, otherwise you’re cruel, or unfair, or something. That’s very odd. Rachael, it has NOTHING to do with my respect or sympathies towards those with mental illness. I believe IT IS a mental illness….obviously a narcissistic disorder, or something along those lines, in order for someone to talk themselves into thinking it’s not only okay, but a RIGHT, to kill their child. Anyway, I’m done with this argument. You win. I won’t say it again.
“and let us continue to try to change the hearts and minds of others.” That, Rachael, is exactly what I aim to do when I describe the abortionists as mentally ill. The word illness silently implies healing. If I am sick, one of two things are going to happen: I will recover. I will not recover. With intervention, another person or medication may help me recover.
I am proposing that we approach the abortionist as ill, in order for us to heal the abortionist. If, on the other hand, we conclude that it is perfectly healthy and reasonable to kill pre-born children, that we are having a purely philosophical or political difference of opinion, then we may as well give up now. Because if they are not sick, and it is not healthier to willingly accept children into our society, then what are we doing? Thousands of post-abortive women have found HEALING. They weren’t turned from pro-choice to pro-life by an intellectual exercise that had no effect on their mental and physical functions. Women who heal after abortion are absolutely healthier than post-abortive women who still hound others to slaughter the pre-born.
Kel, thanls a lot for stereotyping me based off a single comment, but no my pro-life feelings are deeper than that. And Mary Lee I wasn’t criticizing anything else but your comparison of pro-choicers to the mentally I’ll and no I don’t imagine we’ll all fall in step with each other as we’re all very different individuals, Ninek, explaining it that way, I understand where you’te coming from, but all I was asking is that you both find a different way to express that. I guess neither of you will understand what I’m saying until you’ve walked a mile in mine or any other individual’s (with serious mental illnesses) shoes. Geez, I would of expected better from you all.
“When a species of mammals turns on it’s own young, in numbers and percentages that I see in humans today, one can ONLY conclude that a widespread illness is here.”
I would say that it’s a social illness more than a mental illness, in that respect. If a society is ill and condones or glorifies terrible things, does one have to be individually ill in order to do terrible things? Or can one simply be misled? I don’t mean innocent “no one told me it was a child” misled – I mean misled in the foundation of how one logically approaches an issue. This kind of error in intellectual reasoning can be realized by the individual in a moment of intellectual exercise, and the whole issue corrected from there – mental illness cannot be “taught” away, or “reasoned” away, or “realized” away. Mental illness does not persist because of intellectual dishonesty, which is why the staunchest, least emotional support of abortion persists – the people who reason that they know full well about the humanity of the unborn but bodily automony etc etc etc, and then the siamese twin etc etc etc argument, and then they vanish until next time. That isn’t mental illness, it’s intellectual dishonesty.
I don’t have much of a personal stake in this argument. I just understand Raechel’s point. I can kind of see both sides.
“Well, all I have to say is this: if you respect those with mental illness at all, you’ll stop comparing a political viewpoint you disagree with with real mental illness and adding to the stigma and find a different way to express your view.”
Good point, Rachael. Very often we see those who consciously or subconsciously know their argument is a weak one resort to ad hominem tactics.
Raechel, I appreciate what you’re saying. I have lots of friends who suffer from depression or bipolar issues, and wish they didn’t. I can’t say I have many friends who are pro-choice but wish they weren’t.
I do believe that culture comes into play when you’re talking about mental illness. I don’t mean that culture changes what is healthy or unhealthy, by objective standards, but that culture can influence whether an INDIVIDUAL is healthy or unhealthy. If you’re raised in a society that tells you that eating cows is wrong, and cruel, and horrible – then a young man who eats a cow may be exhibiting some serious signs of mental or emotional disturbance, because he is taking something he has been raised to feel one way about, and doing something completely unacceptable. He is functioning abnormally according to the norms with which he was raised. Whereas we eat cows all the time and none of us are mentally less healthy for it. If you are raised in a society where abortion is okay and normal and “a terrible but necessary choice” etc etc etc, then individually you may not be mentally ill just in subscribing to this norm. You may be wrong, but not ill.
Well, all I have to say is this: if you respect those with mental illness at all, you’ll stop comparing a political viewpoint you disagree with with real mental illness and adding to the stigma and find a different way to express your view.”
I can see why you are upset, Rachael, but I don’t think that Mary Lee meant to offend. perhaps it was just a poor choice of words.
Alexandra, those are interesting points and I appreciate your thoughts on the discussion. I agree with the following and this is what I’ve been trying to say all along:
I do believe that culture comes into play when you’re talking about mental illness. I don’t mean that culture changes what is healthy or unhealthy, by objective standards, but that culture can influence whether an INDIVIDUAL is healthy or unhealthy. If you are raised in a society where abortion is okay and normal and “a terrible but necessary choice” etc etc etc, then individually you may not be mentally ill just in subscribing to this norm. You may be wrong, but not ill.
Now Doug, that’s not what I was saying, please don’t put words into my mouth.
Phillymiss, agreed.
Kel, thanls a lot for stereotyping me based off a single comment, but no my pro-life feelings are deeper than that.
Rachael, I asked an honest question of you, expecting an honest answer. I wasn’t attempting to stereotype anyone by asking the question (what stereotype would that be, anyway???). You called it a “political viewpoint,” and I wanted to know if that is how you truly view it. You have apparently read into my question more than what I wrote.
Now Doug, that’s not what I was saying, please don’t put words into my mouth.
Yeah. Kind of like you did to me?
Now Doug, that’s not what I was saying, please don’t put words into my mouth.
Rachael, I wasn’t trying to, but what you describe does happen and there are reasons for it.
I think in the movie “1776” the character of John Adams (played beautifully by William Daniels) says something along the lines of: “This is war d—n it, we have to offend somebody!” (not that I think we should intentionally go around offending anyone, it’s just that it came to mind).
Sorry, that came to mind when reading the comments. (I didn’t mean to make light of a very serious conversation…sometimes my sense of humor gets a little “goofball” like).
I see both sides. I see Rachel’s side in wanting to be respectful of those with mental disorders/illnesses and I see the other side.
There is something seriously alarming and wrong with us as human beings that there’s those of us who are fine or indifferent to the murder of pre-born human beings. Whether that’s a social or mental disorder isn’t the point. The point is, it’s wrong, sad and devestating.
There is something seriously alarming and wrong with us as human beings that there’s those of us who are fine or indifferent to the murder of pre-born human beings. Whether that’s a social or mental disorder isn’t the point. The point is, it’s wrong, sad and devestating.
Agreed.
(Alexandra): then a young man who eats a cow may be exhibiting some serious signs of mental or emotional disturbance,…
: D I thought you were going to say, “because he got Mad Cow disease.”
Alexandra wrote:
I would say that it’s a social illness more than a mental illness, in that respect. If a society is ill and condones or glorifies terrible things, does one have to be individually ill in order to do terrible things? Or can one simply be misled? I don’t mean innocent “no one told me it was a child” misled – I mean misled in the foundation of how one logically approaches an issue. This kind of error in intellectual reasoning can be realized by the individual in a moment of intellectual exercise, and the whole issue corrected from there – mental illness cannot be “taught” away, or “reasoned” away, or “realized” away. Mental illness does not persist because of intellectual dishonesty, which is why the staunchest, least emotional support of abortion persists – the people who reason that they know full well about the humanity of the unborn but bodily automony etc etc etc, and then the siamese twin etc etc etc argument, and then they vanish until next time. That isn’t mental illness, it’s intellectual dishonesty.
Agreed.
Kel,
I apologize, I was getting defensive. No, that’s not how I view the abortion issue at all, but it is rather hard to summarize all my views in a single comment, I would encourage you and anyone interested, to read my prior comments here and to read my blog to obtain a more objective and rounded view of my pro-life beliefs.
Mother in Texas wrote:
There is something seriously alarming and wrong with us as human beings that there’s those of us who are fine or indifferent to the murder of pre-born human beings. Whether that’s a social or mental disorder isn’t the point. The point is, it’s wrong, sad and devestating.
Agreed.
Doug,
MOOOO!! LOL!
Sorry, just trying to lighten the mood too.
Back to the article by Bader, I would LOVE to see some anti-lifers start using truth. How about this: Anti-lifers accuse us of using photoshopped images of pre-born aborted children. Show us YOUR photos, I dare ya. I triple dog dare ya.
Last time I dared an anti-choicer to produce “real” photos of aborted children, she/he copped out by saying that since ‘most abortions occur earlier, using late term photos is incorrect.’
Come on, Bader, let’s see some “real” photos, at any gestational age. I’m not picky. Let’s see what you’ve got.
Her article is also hilarious in it’s blaming of pro-life youth on indoctrination through Christian music. Riiiight, because it’s not like any of us are seeing our relatives posting photos of their babies’ ultrasound images on the facebook or anything. Naw, that won’t expose the humanity of the pre-born at all. Must be those pesky Christians again. Lol!
Oooh. Triple Dog Dare!!
I am sure they could come up with someone to say, “I don’t regret my abortion.”
There. That covers truth in their eyes, right?
Waiting for the photos. waiting, waiting, waiting
I love the triple dog dare, it’s one of my favorite lines in “A Christmas Story.”
Rachael, I sincerely did not mean to offend you, and I apologize. And, really, I take mental illness VERY seriously. Very, very seriously. It runs rampant through my family in various guises (I have major depressive disorder, my sister was diagnosed bipolar, my mother has major depressive disorder, and so on and so on). Maybe “social illness” is a better term. But it is an illness yet. Nobody is beyond redemption; these people aren’t EVIL, what they do is evil. There is something out of whack, something askew, something wrong with them if they believe that the legalized murder of their children is a right.
And I’m tired of being nice to them. They’re not nice to us. They’re not accurate, or fair. Not like I’m going to scream at my pro “choice” friends, but enough already….This is a serious issue. Abortion is not health care….it is not medicine, it does not heal. It kills. It destroys. It ruins. It is awful, and should be treated that way.
We should have compassion for women who feel the need to seek abortions. I am angry that the pro-abortion community belittles and demeans CPCs, the very places doing the work they should be doing. We don’t live in the 1950s anymore. Women don’t have to pop out a bunch of babies to be “real” women. In light of all the technology and all the knowledge we have today, still these people believe in the right to kill the most beautiful and innocent of us. That should make us all angry.
On the other hand, psychologists remind us that there’s another reason the music gets rave reviews from teenagers: Adolescents are typically drawn to simplified, black-and-white ideas. Gestalt psychotherapist Shelley Orren-King explains that it is only when people reach their twenties that “they can begin to see shades of gray.”
Translation: As time passes, people have more and more opportunities to make mistakes which put them in difficult/awkward situations, and because they are in difficult/awkward situations, they have more opportunities to rationalize absolutely heinous actions which they believe they NEED to get them out of those situations, or at least take actions which they believe will get them out of those situations. The more often people are placed in a position in which they are forced to make a choice between right and wrong, the more opportunities exist for people to rationalize wrongdoing.
But pro-choicers are welcome to just go ahead and think we just can’t understand because we’re stupid. XD
Mary Lee,
I have righteous anger!! It takes everything I’ve got not to rant when I hear about how “safe” abortion is and how there are no risks or complications or that I am mentally ill for FINALLY realizing my daughter was KILLED in my abortion and I deeply regret it!
I am angry that I was freaking LIED to at the clinic and was so desperate I couldn’t think straight. I am angry that I was yelled at there and treated so rudely. I am angry that I was ever there that day!
I am angry that proaborts want to silence me, ridicule me, and trivialize my experience.
I am angry that my grief is dismissed time and time again as though I am some lunatic.
I am angry that telling my abortion story is looked upon as “having an agenda” while a woman saying she has never given a whit about it is “honest.”
I am angry that so many that claim to be prolife continue to regard me as a slut who couldn’t keep her legs closed! OR that I should have known better and I got what I deserved!
BUT God continually helps me keep my wits about me and try to communicate even when it falls on deaf ears.
Well. I guess THAT was a rant!!
Xalisae,
I hope you are all settled in!!! Welcome to the Winter Wonderland!
Carla I loved it!
RAAAAAAWWWRR!
*PRIMAL SCREAM*
Today I just feel very fight-y. I’m amazed at how cavalier and relativist pro-abortion “apologists” are about the whole thing.
I’m willing to concede to the term “social disease” so as not to offend. I think it’s alright for pro-lifers to disagree and to discuss. We do walk a fine line, though, and when I get my dander up, I can be too critical and maybe take a shot at my “teammates.”
What we all have in common, among other things, is that our anger is being channelled to a greater purpose: to save other women and children from the pain that we know is avoidable. I agree with you Carla, I don’t have an agenda when I say my abortion was at the root of a terrible darkness in my own life. Wouldn’t any compassionate woman want to stop another woman from walking headlong into the same darkness?
I’m tired too of the abortionists constantly accusing us of lies, while they themselves lie constantly. Our photos are lies, our stories are lies, etc. I would love to see them expose the truth, but… they can’t handle the truth. Almost 40 years into this bloodbath, a young woman is told on camera and for all the world to see the ole clump of cells lie. And when she grieves over her baby, here come the pro-aborts to tell her that grief is a lie, that grief is just some woman-hating-christian-indoctrination. I read “Crime and Punishment” many years ago. It’s a hard to slog through Russian book full of long names and long sentences. But in it’s essence, the story is about a man who believes that if he is strong enough, he can kill without feeling guilty. Naturally, his conscience nags at him. Like the shorter TellTale Heart story, the reality and truth of what he has actually done gnaws at his heart, mind, and soul. The same is true of the post-abortive woman. Though she may deny, lie to herself, and even lie to others, the truth burrows through the psyche like a worm, and the worm will not be extinguished.
Bring on the truth!
Mary Lee:
Are you familiar with the Energy Therapies like Thought Field Therapy, Emotional Freedom Techniques, etc? They offer some of the best methods available for treating depression, phobias, anxiety, trauma, addiction, etc, as well as a variety of physical ailments.
I recommend you go to a couple of websites and check it out:
http://www.emofree.com
You can download the manual for free and do it yourself.
Also, try:
http://www.besetfreefast.com
This is subconscious reprogramming technique which is the best I have found. It has greatly improved my sense of well being.
Good luck.
Thanks Joe! I have my depression under control so far! It was a terrible road, but so far so good. I will check it out……I do have one phobia that is ridiculous….won’t even go into it, it’s so absurd.
Mary Lee,
EXACTLY!!
I am not angry at women who go through with the abortion, post abortive women who have no regrets, pro aborts or even abortionists. The deception is great. I’ve known the desperation and fear and bought the lies and deceit. I’ve walked the walk now how can I be silent?
Like Ninek said I would do anything to spare a woman the darkness of abortion. But if she chooses it, I will still be here if she needs me.
If I had to catagorize pro-choicers with a mental illness I would call them sociopaths (a lack of empathy for others). Not all of them, but the pro-choicers that have full knowledge of what abortion is…
We can all agree that empathy for others is a good thing.
pro-aborts make good gang-bangers
Truthseeker. : D
Mary Lee:
Use EFT at www.emofree.com for your phobia.
The energy therapies were originally developed to treat phobias.
I agree that I would like to see the truth of abortion, but is anyone else as bothered by her talk of Christian rock bands? I mean, even if they all had 5 specifically pro-life songs on each album, why does she seem to think that’s weird? Did she really expect to see links to PP on a Christian band’s website? And indoctrinating?! None of Skillet’s radio singles have anything to do with abortion. Even if they did, either the listener will agree and like the song, not care about the lyrics, or stop listening. If the song already matches your ideals and you choose to listen, how is that indoctrinating? Blaming Christian rock for the increase in pro-life teens is as silly as blaming rock music for Columbine. No, it’s sillier.
I’m just infuriated by how much condescension the entire thing is just DRIPPING with. It’s terrible.
Git ‘er done!