Quote of the Day 1-18-11
For many, children are the plague from which the world must be spared. And condoms are the cure. I honestly believe this kind of thinking feeds into the worst in ourselves.
We somehow think that the less children we have the more time we have to act like children. We don’t want kids because we want to be kids. We’re quickly becoming a culture of Peter Pans. But we forget that Peter Pan was a critique not a model.
And no matter how badly we want to we can’t sail back to Neverland on a raft of synthetic rubber.
~Matthew Archbold, “Condoms Should Come with Capes,” National Catholic Register, January 17
Jan.18, 2011 10:12 am |
Quote of the Day |
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
A society given over to the promotion and fulfilling of lust can only be a society and nation of decay and disintegration.
I agree and disagree with this. I’m not endorsing condom use, but I myself am still waiting to have a normal adolescence, albeit a G-rated one free of sex. I still have some kid-being to do, but sex won’t be a part of it. The people who are out having sex and using condoms aren’t trying to remain kids, I figure. They’re trying to act “all grown up.”
bmmg, great point.
Bmmg, awesome point and I do agree with that.
But it’s also true that as these adolescents enter their twenties, when they should be growing up, they want to enjoy the benefits of sex and pleasure and maintain the care-free mentality that is often associated with high school and college without dealing with the consequences.
Love the quote today.
One of the problems our culture is having is extremely prolonged adolescence. It’s not that uncommon for people in their 30’s to think they are too young to “settle down.” How long is adolescence going to stretch? Into the 40’s? It’s getting beyond ridiculous.
Ninek, what do you mean by “settle down”? I take it to mean “stop being promiscuous.” Some of have been waiting our whole lives for someone to love us, not to have sex with us. I never wanted to have sex — either monogamously or promiscuously — or to French kiss or anything like that. I wanted someone to hold hands with, and be an eleven-year-old with (even though both she and I would be much older than that in actual years). But I’m living on the wrong planet for that. This world wasn’t built for people like me.
I suffer from daily, incessant depression because my lack of finding innocent, boy-meets-girl romance (with someone my own age, as it should go without saying) has left me stuck and unable to approach what comes afterward: marriage, and starting a family, two things for which it might be too late for me already. If I were to skip what I’m looking for and to “move on” to other things, I’d go from despairing to suicidal, or more suicidal, or whatever it is that I am…
I just don’t think that we should refer to a desire for multiple sexual partners as “adolescence,” since that seems to suggest that “everyone” is doing that sort of thing while in high school. That’s not a conceded point on this site, is it?
Bmmg,
I’d say true and untrue. As I see it, we push our teenagers into growing up too quickly, so at a younger age I’d agree that in many ways the issue is about wanting to act “grown up;” however, I have seen a number of young adults get out on their own and essentially stop maturing, at best. Oftentimes I see young adults begin to revert when they realize they have no “house rules” so to speak.
And this ‘phase’ can last into old age in many cases! Look at how we parade immoral, immature and irresponsible behavior …particularly in regards to sex & alcohol… on our television. The women from Sex & the City, for instance, are well past their “heyday.” How about the licentious behavior in soap operas? What about every show & movie that allows & even encourages violent behavior in men? Movies like “A History of Violence”?
You have to grow quickly until you move out, and then you get to spend the rest of your life trying to recapture your youth in an over-sexualized, violent and reprehensible manner. Lovely.
“But it’s also true that as these adolescents enter their twenties, when they should be growing up, they want to enjoy the benefits of sex and pleasure and maintain the care-free mentality that is often associated with high school and college without dealing with the consequences.”
Why “should” people be “growing up” in their twenties? Age is a state of mind. What’s the rush to voluntarily take on extra responsibilities and begin a life of indentured servitude to the capitalist owners of society? It’s a raw deal for most people, frankly. Milking adolescence for all its worth is the smartest thing anyone could do.
Settle down doesn’t mean sex. It can be find a job besides odd jobs for your brother in law, decide on a major instead of transferring from school to school or it can mean to stop treading water, mooching off parents, relatives, and the couches of old college chums. There are a bazillion ways I see my younger friends floundering in indecision and it ain’t only about sex, romance, and marriage, but often it is. However, the use of contraception has made people jump into ‘right for right now’ instead of ‘right forever.’ During the years I dated, I was always shocked anew at men that would begin a relationship with me, when they only intended it to be temporary. I found myself doing the same thing. It was very cynical, and oh, yes, depressing.
Bmm, this world was made for people like you, by God. It’s us people that are making a mess of it in so many ways. And it’s up to us people to fix it, fix it in our generation, and not keep leaving messes for the younger generations to deal with.
Mary Rose, I do agree that children are being exposed to too much, but I find music to be a bigger culprit. If a young person is listening to all kinds of pop music, they’ll hear a ton of lyrics about romance, breakups, sex, etc. And it might lead them to believe that romance is the most important thing in all the world. There aren’t an over abundance of songs about friendship, or the story-telling songs that were popular in the folk era. That’s why we need to be aware of what the young people in our lives are listening to, reading, and watching. I told my nieces that “Edward” is NOT the ideal boy they should be dreaming of in junior high. First, he’s fictional. Second, he’s fictional!
But, Mary Rose, “History of Violence” is a great movie! For us grown ups, lol!
Why “should” people be “growing up” in their twenties? Age is a state of mind. What’s the rush to voluntarily take on extra responsibilities and begin a life of indentured servitude to the capitalist owners of society? It’s a raw deal for most people, frankly. Milking adolescence for all its worth is the smartest thing anyone could do.
LOL – maybe mommy and daddy (or would that be the “capitalist owners of the house?” :D) would like for their children to grow up, get jobs and become productive citizens, contributing to society, instead of staying home and gaming all day, eating the food, and paying no rent. At 18, these “adolescence milkers” can vote to CHANGE our society, therefore, they should be contributing to it. At 21, they can legally purchase alcohol. I would hope they’d be mature enough about it to not get behind the wheel of a car after consuming it. Joan, you reap the benefits of a capitalist society, so I’m sure it’s difficult for you to understand why on earth someone would ever want to leave someplace like Cuba, Russia, or China for freedom to make one’s own way in the world. The freedoms a capitalist society affords don’t always look so evil to those who yearn for freedom and can’t seem to attain it.
I don’t see the controversy here. If someone wants to get married, they can get married. If someone else wants to put off marriage and raising children into their 30s or 40s, they can do that. If they want to have sexual relationships, they can. If they don’t, they don’t. I don’t have a problem with people finding their own path through life.
Ninek,
We are SUCH visual people, though. I think that music plays a BIG part in how we form our lives, but I still think that film and television has a stronger influence. Regardless, both are constantly telling us to behave in a morally reprehensible manner.
I admit that I was still very impressionable when “A History of Violence” came out and maybe I completely missed the point of the movie, but I could NOT stomach the rape scene.
And Hal, that theory is all well and good except that the way in which people behave has a greater effect on society and on the influences in our young people’s lives. If we want our children to be raised in a morally sound environment, we must encourage those morals and discourage the immoral behavior that we do not want in our children’s lives. I have heard the “it’s his/her life” argument many times, but it is taking a very narrow and short-sighted approach to a problem.
I think it’s worth mentioning that the traditional social paradigm of getting married in one’s early 20’s (or even right out of high school) and immediately starting a family and career was largely a result of the shorter average life-spans of people prior to the mid-20th century. Today, people are living longer than they were 30, 50, or 100 years ago.
Joan, if my sons NEVER get married I will be supportive of their decisions. However, if they become sexually active and I catch wind of it before marriage, I will be incredibly disappointed and concerned for them, and will not hesitate to share as much.
I don’t think sex between consenting adults before marriage is immoral. I guess that’s where we differ.
You also don’t think abortion as a result of sex between consenting adults is immoral, so we differ there, as well.
Yes, that would be where we differ.
But you have the intellectual honesty, I hope, to understand why it is that, as I do consider sex outside of marriage, I would want to discourage such behaviors in those around me, and most especially in the influences in my children’s lives.
Kel, that’s true, but your position on abortion is much easier for me to understand than your position on sex outside marriage. (that’s not entirely true, I understand your position, but I guess I’m saying it’s much more foreign to me than the anti-abortion view.)
And Hal, that theory is all well and good except that the way in which people behave has a greater effect on society and on the influences in our young people’s lives. If we want our children to be raised in a morally sound environment, we must encourage those morals and discourage the immoral behavior that we do not want in our children’s lives. I have heard the “it’s his/her life” argument many times, but it is taking a very narrow and short-sighted approach to a problem.
I guess I just don’t see where and adult having no children, or only one or two, so that they can continue to enjoy other activities that some people consider “childlike” is immoral behavior? I am really confused.
The person quoted seems to be saying that people are having fewer children in order to be able to “act like children?” Ummm, so what? As long as they are not killing other human beings, or engaging in illegal activities, who cares how immature you think their hobbies are? How is this “immoral behavior?”
To me it seems like Matthew Archbold is either in favour of forcing people to become pregnant and have several children, or he is envious of those with the freedom that comes with having only one or two children, or none at all.
Len commented: “As long as they are not killing other human beings, or engaging in illegal activities, who cares how immature you think their hobbies are? How is this “immoral behavior?” ”
So long as your hobby doesn’t lead to abortion or drunk driving, I’d agree. If a man is paying his own rent, and wants to spend all his free time on Second Life, go ahead. But if a man is still living with mom, eating her food, not paying a dime, and spending all his free time on Second Life, I’d hope his mom would have a problem with that. Are sloth and selfishness suddenly virtues? I hope not!
I see what you’re saying about sloth and selfishness, but there is a difference between a self-supporting adult who chooses to remain childless and enjoys playing video games and an adult who chooses to be supported by his parents when he is capable of doing so himself.
and a difference between a self supporting adult who works hard, owns his or her own home, pays taxes, goes to church and wants to have a sexual relationship with someone he or she loves before (or without) marriage.
If age is only a state of mind, why can’t my five year old son drive?
Maturity matters in lots of situations.
Love the captain condom/ Peter Pan pic. As a culture we’ve blurred the distinction between childlike and childish. Avoiding maturity most often means avoiding responsibility.
Joan, isn’t your whole position on abortion tied to age? I mean, why give an infant (or a baby boomer) rights that a fetus can’t have- at least not in our day in the US?
Fair enough, except that risky behaviors that risk creating a child aren’t the same as slouching in your mom’s basement past the average age limit. If you’re having sex, you’re risking pregnancy, and if you’re risking pregnancy, your lifestyle choices should reflect those which are healthy for raising a child. I hope we can agree that having a parent who is sexually promiscuous is an unstable foundation for a young child.
Mary Ann,
Thank you for addressing the subject of childish versus childlike! We need to recall that there is a distinct difference between acting irresponsibly and acting in a responsibly youthful manner.
Of course, MaryRose, but I didn’t see anything in the original quote about sexual promiscuity. Condoms are used by monogamous couples and married people all the time.
right, the conversation has shifted from people wanting less children (nothing wrong with that) to people who are promiscuous. As stated earlier, I don’t see any moral problem with a person who wants fewer children, or a person who wants children later in life, or a person who doesn’t want any children. I would not limit the right to have a healthy and happy sex life to people who are ready to conceive.
You know, there is a bumper sticker that reads something like “I don’t have children because I like to buy all the toys for myself”. One of my friends had one on her SUV (she had no children). It was a purchased bumper sticker, not one she made on her printer at home. Just sayin’ it’s out there.
Mary Ann, I think a person who behaves childishly and avoids responsibility is probably best off not having children at all.
len, My response was more to Hal’s comment, actually.
Who would you rather be? The parent of 5 barely struggling through financially, or the guy who puts off parenthood because he doesn’t want to give up his sports car/free time/etc? I’m not saying that our whole purpose in life is parenthood, but there is a mentality about our nation that all responsibilities are to be avoided if at all possible. I saw the original piece as a commentary on this aspect of that mentality.
“Who would you rather be? The parent of 5 barely struggling through financially, or the guy who puts off parenthood because he doesn’t want to give up his sports car/free time/etc?”
Whichever makes you happiest. Maybe the people in both of these examples are perfectly happy. Maybe neither of them are. It’s hardly anyone else’s place to judge.
I don’t see anything wrong with taking measures to avoid struggling. Some people can live frugally with several children and not feel like their struggling. Others may feel like managing even a small family is difficult. I really don’t see what’s wrong with the latter taking steps to limit how many children they have, if any, as long as they aren’t killing any in the process. Why is this seen as such a bad thing? I am still confused.
bmmg39,
(Are you the same bmmg39 I knew in high school?) :)
You’re not the only one on the planet. Try not to be depressed. I suspect there are at least two women who feel the same way. I’d suggest good places to meet such a person would be places of calm, thoughtful discussions, like church groups or book clubs.
As ninek intimated, the innocent, romantic way is still somewhat respected and possible. And not just in a Hallmark tv movie.
I would tie promiscuity to adolescent daydreaming, at least – if not in actual behavior. It’s all so self-centered, as most young people are. I don’t consider adult book stores or the Playboy mansion as places for thoughtful grown-ups. I would call them pretty adolescent.
bmmg39,
I will pray that God send you a woman with the same great values.
For a long time after my divorce, I swore I would never get married again. I had given up but was also lonely. I prayed and prayed that God send me a spouse. Then I almost missed him because I was looking for a romantic partner, not a friend. He was right in front of me for quite awhile (love is blind in more ways that one!) before I called him up to go out.
Look twice at someone you don’t think you’d ever romantically date and she just might be the one. You and she are worth the wait.
The guy I thought was a great guy but was just not my type is now my husband and the best friend I’ve ever had (the romance fell into place after the friendship was cemented).
Maybe some here will add their prayers to mine as well.
Len,
There is a distinct difference between I am delaying pregnancy to avoid struggling and I don’t want to give up my toys for a child. One is a calculated decision made for the sake of your family & dependents. The other is a symptom of our social illness called GREED.
Don’t make me give up what’s mine for someone else.
Is it something I would make legislation on? No. But I fully support Matthew Archbold in his assertion that our self-obsessed culture could really use a makeover. He is absolutely in the appropriate forum for encouraging such a reform.
Joan,
What you fail to understand is that our purpose in life is to achieve Heaven and to bring as many people with us as possible, not to accumulate as much as makes us happy here.
Praxedes says:
January 18, 2011 at 8:37 pm
bmmg39,
I will pray that God send you a woman with the same great values.
The guy I thought was a great guy but was just not my type is now my husband and the best friend I’ve ever had (the romance fell into place after the friendship was cemented).
Maybe some here will add their prayers to mine as well.
Oh, I’m adding my prayers!!!
And I totally agree with the above comment :) I think I only fell in love romantically with my husband after the wedding, but I was sure he was the right one for me right from the start and we were the best of friends and had exactly the same values about relationships/sex/marriage/faith, a truly perfect match.
I met him on CatholicMatch when I was just looking for some like-minded people and new friends, and have to admit the website was GREAT place for meeting people who are serious about faith, had great discussion boards and meets. Still keep in touch with some of them. Fun place to visit ;)
“Some of have been waiting our whole lives for someone to love us, not to have sex with us. I never wanted to have sex — either monogamously or promiscuously — or to French kiss or anything like that. I wanted someone to hold hands with, and be an eleven-year-old with (even though both she and I would be much older than that in actual years). But I’m living on the wrong planet for that. This world wasn’t built for people like me.”
bmmg, I suspect this will be of little comfort, but I know people like you, and women like you. I run in fairly progressive circles, and participate in a LGBTQ discussion group with several of my friends. After a specific request we began a conversation on asexuality, and quite a few of the group members confessed to identifying most strongly with that label, but hiding behind other, less allegedly weird-sounding terms for the sake of public acceptance. One of my friends said she felt best described by replacing the word “sexual” with the word “romantic” – ie, hetero-romantic. Wanting companionship and flirtation and romance, but not actually wanting anything sexual.
To be honest, I think it’s wonderful that you have the self-awareness and self-respect to examine what you really want and stick to it. Too often, people see how intricately we link things like hand-holding and hugging with things like sex, and so they consider them intrinsically linked, and barter for affection with sexual activity. But they AREN’T intrinsically linked, and if you want one but not the other, I think it’s really wonderful that you have the strength and dedication to hold out for what you want. It can’t be easy, but in the long run I think it’s easier than being disingenuous or untrue to yourself.
bmmg, she’s out there for you. I think quite a few women are, actually.
There were several people in my family who thought I’d never get married, though finally I did at age 41. Married almost 11 years now. Met her online, a notion at which I would have scoffed, just a few months before.
Wasn’t “looking for a woman,” but things still moved fast. Meeting online is the reverse of offline – you get to know somebody first, often before you see them. You can “meet” thousands of people online, which I think may give a lot better chance at success than with offline encounters.
I think a lot of women would love to meet you.
Hans: “(Are you the same bmmg39 I knew in high school?)”
I’m from PA. You?
Thanks to all for their kind words.
Actually, I am.