Planned Parenthood’s full page ad in today’s Beacon
The only entity likely happy about the Aurora Planned Parenthood battle is the Aurora Beacon, which is selling a lot of ad space these days.
I was flabbergasted when hearing about the full page ad Planned Parenthood took out today with a large photo of a bombed abortion clinic and again accusing Joe Scheidler and Pro-Life Action League of violence. Steve Trombley obviously took Tom Brejcha’s letter to cease and desist as a dare.
Obviously, PP’s goal is to turn public opinion away from who it considers ringleaders of the movement to keep PP out of Aurora.
I’m biased, but it seems to me this is another colossal bad move on PP’s part….
Is this PP’s idea of a public relations campaign?
Does PP think this will garner sympathizers who decide, yes, they hadn’t thought of it before, but they really want a bomb target next to their Dominicks and Blockbusters?
But the real problem is too many thousands of Aurorans have protested and prayed at the mill. Too many churches are involved. All these people have seen with their own eyes that PP is telling a huge lie about Scheidler and pro-life violence. There are too many videos and photographs and montages and interviews and public testimony of peaceful dissidents.
Further, many of these people have invested in the pro-life movement for the first time in their lives, and Steve Trombley and PP are castigating them when they castigate the “extremists.”
Here’s a link to the entire ad.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
I’m biased, but it seems to me this is another colossal bad move on PP’s part.
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Jill, I’ve been fairly shocked when you’ve quoted Mark Crutcher and Life Dynamics.
Don’t even PRETEND you don’t know their links to the White Rose/AOG crowd. (It’s either that or you’re naive enough to believe that Osama and AlQaida are just “misunderstood.”)
Well, Laura, it appears we’re just shocking each other tonight, aren’t we?
Crutcher and Life Dynamics were given Paul Hill’s last interview before he was executed.
Would you use YOUR position to give a man like Paul Hill a public forum for his views?
And James Dobson conducted Ted Bundy’s final interview. Sure, I would have been interested to publicly pick Paul Hill’s brain.
And James Dobson conducted Ted Bundy’s final interview. Sure, I would have been interested to publicly pick Paul Hill’s brain.
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Great example.
Bundy used Dobson’s forum to blame his murders on porn.
Dobson ran with that. Moron…
I wonder; perhaps an ad covered with aborted unborn children along with the words, “DON’T LET THE EXTREMISTS CALL CHILD MURDER ‘HEALTH CARE'”. How would that go over? Of course such an ad would be rejected by any newspaper because it would be considered pornographic, and that would be exactly correct.
These ridiculous pro-aborts delight in associating all pro-lifers with a few random, idiotic acts of terrorism. Unfortunately it is far easier and far more fair to associate them with 4,000 acts of violence which take place in abortion mills all over America every day.
Who is Trombley taking marching orders from? There’s no way Planned Parenthood’s national office would allow a loose cannon shot like this to be fired off without being prepared to take the return volley from the pro-lifers.
I bet Cecile Richards and the national PP team are behind the ad, and Trombley is being forced to run it.
Who is Trombley taking marching orders from? There’s no way Planned Parenthood’s national office would allow a loose cannon shot like this to be fired off without being prepared to take the return volley from the pro-lifers.
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It’s flawless.
If you let violent religious extremists close the clinic, the terrorists have won.
I’d run it right around 9/11 too.
Laura,
On the issue of Dobson I have to agree with you. I was very dismayed by that interview. Bundy, sociopath extraordinnaire, knew exactly how to play Dobson and did. Sociopaths are masters at this. I would think a licensed psychologist(according to Wikipedia) would know to be wary of a sociopath’s tears and smooth talk. To see Dobson soak this up, to even dignify this murderous slug by listening to his blubbering, was disheartening to say the least. My respect for Dr. Dobson suffered a hit with that one.
I think it’s silly to compare a random serial murderer like Ted Bundy to a political terrorist like Paul Hill.
The ad directly attacks Scheidler’s character, his record, and (go figure) attempts to DECEIVE the people of Aurora into thinking that he’s been convicted of all these nasty things, when in reality, he hasn’t.
But let them go after Scheidler. He’s not the “face” of the fight this time (his son is an Aurora resident). Another sign that this is from the PP national office – they’re going after Scheidler because they know who he is, rather than the Aurora residents who are opposing them.
But I think doubling down as they have done is a good move by PP. There’s no way Joe Scheidler can deny his past association with clinic violence. His past is so well-documented that the fact that he is involved in any way with a given demonstration justifies associating the whole demonstration with the threat of clinic violence.
The reversal of PP vs Scheidler was on a technical point–whether RICO could be used against political terrorists like PLAL. The Supreme Court never denied Scheidler’s violent activity.
My bet: Scheidler’s libel suit, if he files it, will fail.
The clinic will open in a few months at most.
These losers will really stoop very low. They have one picture of a burned clinic, we have thousands of pictures of dead babies.
SoMG,
why do you want another clinic to open, don’t the pro-choicers think that less abortions are good?
But where is this “well documented history” of Scheidler’s terrorist past?
don’t the pro-choicers think that less abortions are good?
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Of course.
That’s why we endorse an entity that that dispenses tons of contraceptives all the while promoting abstinence.
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/birth-control-pregnancy/birth-control/continuous-abstinence.htm
Dobson’s had lost respect for a while now..
“Of course.
That’s why we endorse an entity that that dispenses tons of contraceptives all the while promoting abstinence. ”
But with all the artificial contraceptives, why hasn’t the abortion rate gone down?
Jasper, Clinics open IN RESPONSE TO demand for their services. They don’t generate demand and they don’t increase the abortion rate. In a pro-choice country the abortion rate is determined entirely by demand. (The opening and closing of clinics is governed entirely by demand also. The reason there are fewer clinics open today than there were twenty-five years ago is, the baby-boom generation is aging past reproductive age. Fewer unplanned pregnancies, less demand.)
In fact, by teaching the “Abstinance Plus” agenda and providing cheap contraceptives, the new clinic will probably LOWER the abortion rate. By lowering the unplanned-pregnancy rate, that is.
but they really want a bomb target next to their Dominicks and Blockbusters?
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Are you willing to convert to Islam to avoid being a “bomb target?”
No?
Funny, I’m not willing to change my beliefs or lifestyle to appease violent religious fundamentalists either! Bring ’em on! Throw down!
Phil, just read the arguments in PP vs Scheidler, from before the Supreme Court overturned it on a technicality.
I read it years ago, and also read the expose that World Magazine put out, showing the outright lies being used by NOW and Faye Clayton in the case.
World Magazine, eh? Wasn’t someone saying something a while back about biased sources?
Anyway, two juries disagreed with you.
WHY is it silly to compare Ted Bundy and Paul Hill? They were both murderers. Somg, your logic is twisted. Please elaborate as to why you think that Paul Hill is so much worse than Bundy.
Mary: On the issue of Dobson I have to agree with you. I was very dismayed by that interview. Bundy, sociopath extraordinnaire, knew exactly how to play Dobson and did. Sociopaths are masters at this.
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The expression “played like a cheap guitar” crossed my mind when I watched that interview.
Of course, Dobson honestly believed he “cured” Ted Haggard’s homosexuality in three weeks.
“In fact, by teaching the “Abstinance Plus” agenda and providing cheap contraceptives, the new clinic will probably LOWER the abortion rate. By lowering the unplanned-pregnancy rate, that is.”
But why only now will it get lower? the clincs have been open for 33 years….it comes down to personal responsibily and morals. When setting the bar low for people and give them an easy out with abortion, what the heck, they can go without contraceptives….
Ted Bundy was raping and killing women. He was having sex with their corpses. I’m not excusing Paul Hill’s actions, but please explain where one murderer is any better/worse than the other.
Heather, you don’t think a guy who carries out death warrents issued by a religious fanatic is worse than a killer who chooses his victims at random?
I do.
Why? You still aren’t answering the question.
Somg, Ted Bundy killed a lot of women. Paul Hill killed one. Both men were wrong. Why is Ted Bundy the better of the 2?
Heather, you don’t think a guy who carries out death warrents issued by a religious fanatic is worse than a killer who chooses his victims at random?
No, not even close.
Somg, earlier you were suggesting harm be done to Paul Hill’s family. I’ve always chalked you up to a nut yourself, but your actions make you just as bad as one who commits murder.
Ted Bundy was raping and killing women. He was having sex with their corpses. I’m not excusing Paul Hill’s actions, but please explain where one murderer is any better/worse than the other.
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Ted Bundy was a sociopath who murdered to fulfill a sick, twisted need.
Paul Hill – like all terrorists – used violence in order to instill fear and secure compliance to his political agenda from law-abiding Americans.
Why was Paul Hill worse?
Because while Bundy had to be destroyed like a sad, sick dog, Hill was a sane zealot who figured that he was entitled to override the belief system of an entire people through intimidation.
The breakdown:
Bundy = ‘Yeller with the hydrophobie.
Hill = Osama Bin Laden
Ted Bundy was instilling fear too, as he carried out a 5 year crime spree. Bundy believed that women were all disposable sex toys. Who said Paul Hill was sane? Did you ever see a psychiatric report on him?
Paul Hill wasn’t fond of abortionists. Ted Bundy wasn’t fond of women. What’s the difference?
Ted Bundy wasn’t a terrorist? What was he? A good kid?
.. Paul Hill has some interesting takes on why he shot an abortionist.
http://www.armyofgod.com/PHill_ShortShot.html
Ted Bundy was instilling fear too, as he carried out a 5 year crime spree. Bundy believed that women were all disposable sex toys. Who said Paul Hill was sane? Did you ever see a psychiatric report on him?
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Ted Bundy never sought fame – or even disclosure.
He was a sick man carrying out a twisted compulsion.
Paul Hill was sane. You must be declared sane to be tried and convicted in this country.
Bundy killed in order to satisfy a personal sickness.
Paul Hill killed in order to override the Constitution of the United States, and the the desires of 250 million law-abiding Americans.
(Does this make it simple? If Paul Hill had worked within the American justice system, he might have put an end to legal abortion. At no time would the American justice system given Ted Bundy permission to torture-murder a number of young women.)
Laura,
please stop comparing Paul Hill to Ted Bundy. Paul Hill was wrong in what he did, but the person he killed was a killer himself.
Jasper:.. Paul Hill has some interesting takes on why he shot an abortionist.
http://www.armyofgod.com/PHill_ShortShot.html
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Gee, Jasper, isn’t it time you brushed up on the Koran and studied some of the more interesting takes on why Osama slaughtered 3000 Americans?
You just quoted a terrorist organization.
I don’t need to listen to you ever again.
thank-you…both heather and laura…
heather for beating me to asking that question…
laura for answering it…i am agreeing w/ you fully…i just came to the same conclusion of “how was hill sane?” but forgot about the whole being sane to be tried thing…
jasper…i read the link you referred to…a little creepy to say the least…but thank-you…i will admit i was a little under educated about paul hill and his views on what he did…
sick.
How did you feel about the women who supported Bundy? They showed up at his trial hoping he would take notice of them. They were hoping he would be attracted to them. Paul Hill has supporters too.
oops…my mistake…getting used to the format of who wrote what…
that was laura w/ the link…
thank-you…interesting point
Let’s not get too judgemental here. Paul Hill did kill a killer. Bundy killed your every day girls next door.
hello oy. you might as well stick around.
Laura,
please stop comparing Paul Hill to Ted Bundy. Paul Hill was wrong in what he did, but the person he killed was a killer himself.
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Really?
Did you or Hill go through legal channels to report this “killer”.
The American justice system doesn’t tolerate killers, it disposes of them.
What credentials did Hill hold?
What entitled him to dismiss the procedures the rest of us must follow?
Do you support violent anarchy? COOL!
i like to take in opinions, even those that aren’t my own and that i don’t agree w/…
that is what i came here looking for…a LOGICAL opinion different from my own. i like to see what other people think about those topics…as it helps me to challenge why i think the way i do…
i don’t always find logic here…but this thread has some great points…
ouyandan, are you pro life or pro choice?
i am very pro choice. not just on abortion…for me pro choice means choices in all aspects of our lives and the freedom make them…
Well, what’s your opinion on Ted Bundy vs. Paul Hill?
my opinion? i really see no versus here…what i see are two clear cut murderers. they both broke the law and killed someone (well…in bundy’s case, several someones) in cold blood. i don’t see one worse than the other honestly. so no versus here for me…the difference being that bundy was a sociopath…
and while i know the argument i think i am being led into…and i don’t mind b/c i welcome good discussion…to say paul hill killed a killer doesn’t work for me. the people that paul hill killed were not breaking any laws. what they were doing was protected under law. i don’t think that vigilante justice is the right way to go. the doctor and his escort were convicted of no crime…it was not paul hill’s place to be the judge jury and exocutioner of anyone…(but this is all IMHO)
i will return after my daughter and i get some dinner…my interests are caught…
Okay. see ya later, ouy. Dinner? It’s 1:06 AM here.
hahaha…it’s only 7 pm here…
looking forward to it…
I see the bias here.
Nobody needs to be executed. It’s completely wrong to kill a killer.
His actions are inexcusable, and to say he wasn’t that bad because he “killed a killer” is kind of sickening.
SoMG – I sent the World Magazine article to Jill. If she doesn’t put it up tomorrow, I will.
The investigation that World Magazine revealed numerous lies, including witnesses paid to lie, and uncovered photographs and videotape that refute many of the claims of violence. It doesn’t matter what World Mag’s bias is – there’s no need to put a spin on the things they found.
well it would seem that i haven’t missed a lot here…but i have to take into account the very large time difference…
but i will say again…good points made here…thanx for the discussion…
Heather, that wasn’t me, that was Doctor Defense. He has some strange ideas.
Phil: If they found a witness who was paid to lie, why wasn’t that witness jailed for perjury?
“His actions are inexcusable, and to say he wasn’t that bad because he “killed a killer” is kind of sickening.”
who said his action were not bad PIP?
Can we get off Paul Hill and Ted Bundy and just look at the fact that PP is lying through their teeth in the first place by saying that the protestors are against “vital health care”? What a crock! It’s a wonder petunias aren’t sprouting right out of that ad, it’s so full of horses***t.
The people opposed to PP have no qualms about providing people with health care. It’s the fact that PP treats babies like vermin, statutory rape victims like willing prostitutes, and poor and minority people like stray animals that need to be spayed and neutered that we object to.
HELLO OUT THERE !!???
THIS THREAD IS ABOUT PLANNED PARENTHOOD’S AD IN THE AURORA BEACON!
PP is claiming that pro-life people are violent.
This is a lie.
PP is claiming Joe Scheidler is promotes violence.
This is a lie.
The U.S. Supreme Court decided against the plaintiff, NOW,
and in favor of the defendants, Joe Scheidler, et.al., in two separate decisions. The decisions were 8-1 and 8-0. Look up the case documentation.
Planned Parenthood is going to be sued for libel.
Trombley is going to lose his job.
PP in Aurora will not open on September 18.
If it ever does open, it will be picketed and there will be many people praying there as long as it is open. I pray that it never opens.
This is the beginning of the end of popular support for Planned Parenthood. Hopefull it will be the beginning of the end of your tax dollars support as well.
PP are the real terrorists. What could be worse than ripping up a tiny baby’s body in its mother’s womb and sucking it out with a powerful suction machine??
Really SoMG,
His past is so well-documented that the fact that he is involved in any way with a given demonstration justifies associating the whole demonstration with the threat of clinic violence.
Having known Joe Scheidler for years, I’d really LOVE to see some of this *drum roll* Well documented proof…
Double Dog Dare You…
Christina,
We pro-life people DO OBJECT to PP’s version of “health care”. They dispense hundreds of millions of dangerous chemicals which wreak havoc on a woman’s hormonal balance and are associated with a myriad of devastating side effects including blood clots and cancer.
Chemical contraceptives also are abortifacients, meaning they kill the tiny embryo indirectly by preventing implantation in the wall of the uterus. This is NOT health care.
There are many doctors and legitimate clinics and hospitals in the Fox Valley area. An abortion and women’s chemical poisoning “clinic” is never needed.
Planned Parenthood promotes promiscuous sex to children and adults, sells contraceptives to them, which perpetuates the practice of sexual activity for “fun and games”, and when the contraceptives fail, it sells abortions to them.
Promoting sexual promiscuity perpetuates Sexually Transmitted Diseases and Infections.
Thus, everything PP sells actually promotes more and more sexual promiscuity which requires more and more of their “services.” This guarantees their repeat business. It does not solve any problems or prevent abortions.
It’s clearly a VICIOUS CYLCE OF SEX, ABORTIONS, DISEASES, and RUINED LIVES.
And who pays the highest price for all of this??
The precious little babies who are tortured and killed in their mother’s wombs.
That is why we are against EVERYTHING that Planned Parenthood stands for and does.
Laura,
Are you willing to convert to Islam to avoid being a “bomb target?”
*
No?
*
Funny, I’m not willing to change my beliefs or lifestyle to appease violent religious fundamentalists either! Bring ’em on! Throw down!
So you’d be okay if Osama moved into your town?
MK, no one can find Osama. The military would be all over him as soon as he showed his face anywhere remotely out of the foothills of Afghanistan.
There’s nothing wrong with this ad. I see ads on billboards and in the paper shouting ‘Choose Life’ and such all the time. The other side is entitled to present their side as well. Can’t take the challenge?
Erin,
If any of this ad were true, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. If the Army of God were behind these protests, I wouldn’t be saying word. The point is that he is accusing Joe of things that he didn’t do, he is doing it in a public forum, and just like he lied to build his abortuary, he is now lying to keep it.
My comment about Osama was in response to Laura…
The ad makes it look like living next door to this clinic is like living next door to a bomb target. Laura wants to know if I would capitulate to Islam to avoid being attacked. I want to know if she’d have a problem if Obama moved into her town…
Abortion used to be illegal. Pretend for a moment that the US decided that Osama should be allowed to carry on untouched, and he moved into your town to do it. Would Laura be okay with that? Or would she try to get him out. She brought up the comparison, not me.
ACTUAL REAL ABORTED BABY CARRIED IN NATIONAL PRO-ABORTION PARADE
Did anyone listen to the third hour of the Drew Mariani Show on Relevant Radio on Monday, Sept 10th? Fr. Frank Pavone was filling in as the host and he had Jerry Horn on the show.
Jerry tells his story how he carried a real aborted baby in a pro-abortion parade and was arrested. Jerry got all the headlines in the national papers which stole the headlines from the actual Pro-Abort parade. Pro-Abort leaders like Eleanor Smeal and Patricia Ireland were livid!
This is a story you have to hear. Go to the Drew Mariani audio archives for Monday, Sept 10th and listen or download hour# 3.
http://216.235.201.127/NETCOMMUNITY/Page.aspx?&pid=635&srcid=641
(The audio archived show is not listed yet but should be out there sometime Tuesday afternoon)
http://www.relevantradio.com/NETCOMMUNITY/Page.aspx?&pid=534&srcid=-2
Mike
MK,
Good points. And the main point about this thread is that the ad by PP is libelous and the Pro-Life Action League is going to file suit against Trombley and Planned Parenthood – Chicago Area.
Paul, Christina, Phil, MK, great posts.
Phil, thanks for the article! Will post.
jasper–you and heather were implying that we should cut him some slack for killing a killer.
Pip, John Britton was murdering unborn children. Paul Hill blew him away. I didn’t say that Paul Hill should be excused. Ted Bundy raped, tortured, and killed women. These women didn’t harm anyone. He had sex with their corpses. Both men are murderers and both men were executed for their crimes. Somg started this. I was just trying to finish it.
Some people may say that John Britton wasn’t a killer. He was a killer. The reason that some refuse to acknowledge this is because they don’t believe that a fetus {{Latin for “Little One”}} is human. Paul Hill killed a killer, and he paid for his crime with his own life.
The real question is:
If there was a kindergarten and a man was inside cutting the children to pieces, and another man went in an killed him, how would you be reacting?
The only reason this man is viewed as a criminal is because not everyone can see the truth about abortion. I do NOT agree with what Paul Hill did, but the difference between him and Bundy is huge.
Paul Hill did not derive pleasure from murdering that dr. Paul Hill believed he was killing the equivalent of a Ted Bundy.
I agree, his methods were wrong, but his motivation was light years away from Mr. Bundy’s.
Both should be punished, but please, at least try to see the difference between the two. It’s the difference between stealing a loaf of bread to feed your family and robbing a bank.
MK and jasper, thank you both. I also see it this way!
Regarding Planned Parenthood’s full page ad:
1) it seems as if the pro-aborts have taken a hint from the pro-lifers. using pictures of “bad things” to impact people’s opinion.
2) pro-lifers would never get away with running a full page ad of an aborted baby.
Somg, why do you always avoid the topics that you start?
I did not mean to imply that they are the same people without a varying degree of crimes.
I just think that your logic is wrong. But I guess from the pro-capital punishment mentality it works.
Self-defense is one thing. Calculated murder is wrong, whether the state does it, a sociopath does it, an abortionist does it, or some guy that thinks he is doing the right thing does it. It is still wrong. Obviously the crimes of each may be more brutal and horrifying than others, and obviously some are worse in the extent of the crime than others.
I’m sure Paul Hill thought he was doing the right thing. And sure, he only killed one guy as opposed to a serial killer. But it doesn’t mean what he did was any less wrong!
Paul Hill killed two people, and seriously injured another person. He believed that John Britton was wrong for killing fetuses, but he was not wrong for killing John Britton. How did he figure?
He was a psychopath, just like Ted Bundy.
John Britton was a law-abiding American citizen.
Hill was a terrorist who killed him in order to fulfill a political agenda.
You know, I was looking at the photo more closely today and think it was clearly doctored. That “Choose Life” sign in the background. Come on.
Jill, in response to the quote of the day,
A lot of places were out of business for a week (or more) after 9/11. Disney World was one or them. Does that mean that Disney felt guilty for being a bastion of happiness when people were so sad? Or was it just a sign of respect towards the all encompassing mourning period of such a tragedy? Many people in the time after 9/11 just wanted to stay home and be close to their families, and companies and employers respected that.
You know, I was looking at the photo more closely today and think it was clearly doctored. That “Choose Life” sign in the background. Come on.
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It wasn’t doctored.
The “choose life” board was across the street.
I remember when the live video camera panned around to capture the irony.
“A lot of places were out of business for a week (or more) after 9/11”
No, not really. All hospitals were open. Why not PP?
Did anyone die in this arson fire? How long ago did it occur? I only have to reach back about 1 minute to find violence in a Planned Parenthood clinic (the dismemberment of a live fetus). How far back did they go in an attempt to find violence on the pro-life side?
A lot of places were out of business for a week (or more) after 9/11. Disney World was one or them. Does that mean that Disney felt guilty for being a bastion of happiness when people were so sad?
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Disneyland, the Smithsonian, even much of Vegas was closed. There’s a bizarre “terror target” protocol that goes into effect.
I only have to reach back about 1 minute to find violence in a Planned Parenthood clinic
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You find simple medical procedures violent?
The neighbor child had a violent tonsilectomy last Friday…
I have my answer. The fire was 21 years ago and no one was hurt. The clinic was closed for 3 weeks and then reopened at a temporary location.
http://www.ppscm.org/historykzoo.html
Perhaps the children who were born because of the clinic shutdown which gave their Moms a chance to think and change their minds are celebrating their 21st birthdays soon. Happy Birthday!
Yes, Laura, I find a simple medical procedure violent when it rips a human being apart limb by limb. Abortions aren’t always simple and they are always violent.
Truth about Planned Parenthood
Section Navigation
Planned Parenthood
American Life League Petition to Stop Taypayer Funding of Planned Parenthood
Click in this link to enter the American Life League Petition you can sign to request that the government STOP TAYPAYER FUNDING of Planned Parenthood http://www.StopPlannedParenthoodTaxFunding.com
Girl killed by Planned Parenthood RU-486 medical abortion
According to the Associated Press, a coroner confirmed that 18-year old Holly Paterson died as a result of a drug-induced medical abortion at Planned Parenthood. Doctors said that Holly died after a massive infection caused by fragments of the fetus left insider her uterus caused her to go into septic shock.
Hollys father told the media, Whats disturbing is these young couples, they are relying upon what they think is good, solid info telling them everything is OK. I would have said, You know what, they dont know everything. Lets get more information.
Planned Parenthood continues to dispense the dangerous abortion pill despite its fatal effects.
Jury orders Planned Parenthood to pay for botched abortion
The Washington Times reported that a jury recently ordered Planned Parenthood to pay $672,610 in damages to a San Francisco woman who received a botched abortion of twins. One baby was aborted during the womans visit, but the other baby was partially dismembered and left alive in the womb, according to court testimony.
Not wanting to pay for the mistake, Planned Parenthood appealed the decision.
More resources about Planned Parenthood:
For more information, visit:
STOPP International
Lynn, there you are.
I have my answer. The fire was 21 years ago and no one was hurt. The clinic was closed for 3 weeks and then reopened at a temporary location.
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You’re right.
It’s like all those African-American churches that were burned during the civil rights movement. They’ve been rebuilt. Shouldn’t we just disregard them, too? No biggie? (sarc)
“I have my answer. The fire was 21 years ago and no one was hurt. The clinic was closed for 3 weeks and then reopened at a temporary location.”
Wow, that was the one in Kalamazoo, my old stopmin grounds. That’s the only Planned Parenthood I’ve ever been in, and what a terrifying place it was.
Especially terrifying for unborn children, Bobby, no?
Laura your last post makes zero sense.
“Especially terrifying for unborn children, Bobby, no?”
I can’t even begin to imagine… God love you, Lynn.
Laura your last post makes zero sense.
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It makes perfect sense.
You think burned clinics are no big deal? I assume you think that burned churches were no big deal, either.
Didn’t PP offer free abortions to the widows of 9/11? I’m not sure if my memory is serving me correctly. I believe they also offered such “services” to the Katrina victims. Please correct me if I’m wrong on this.
Mary, yes, they did.
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Dial 9-11 for free abortion
Planned Parenthood made special offer to terrorized NYC women
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Posted: January 18, 2002
1:00 a.m. Eastern
By Art Moore
Hi Bobby,
I was watching Bishop Fulton Sheen on EWTN the other night and I thought of you. He signs off with “God Love you” as well..he was a great man. They use to broadcast his show on the major TV neworks in 50’s and 60’s….now we have mostly junk on TV.
sorry about all that space i put up there with my post.
Hey there Jasper! Actually, it should go without saying that I stole it from him. I watch him on EWTN, too. My dad used to watch him when he was growing up, and I’m glad I have the privilege to watch him as well. Bishop Sheen is one of my heroes. Do you ever watch Father John Corapi? He’s kind of like the new Fulton Sheen. God love you.
Laura, your assumptions are faulty. I am opposed in general to arson. I do not think churches should be burned. Of course that is completely irrelevant to our discussion but you do seem to have a problem with staying on topic.
This clinic was burned OVER 20 years ago – can you find any more recent examples to bolster your case? Also, arson is not done systematically and with full approval of all those in the pro-life movement, like the violence of abortion is approved systematically by pro-choicers.
Finally, one could argue that this arson, while illegal, caused a clinic that kills children to close for 3 weeks and thus SAVED lives. I wonder what you would say to the beautiful human beings, now 20 years old, who were born because that clinic burned to the ground? How about, “welcome to the human race, we’re glad you’re here!”
Heather,
Who says PP isn’t civic minded? I wonder why, if they are so concerned about women’s health, they wouldn’t offer free prenatal care, physical examinations, free pediatric care for the children of the victims, referral to counselling and support systems, or adoption services as well. They emphasize abortions and “other related services” which gives you an idea of their priorities.
Mary, I agree. They certainly have the funds to do so. I also found many links to PP offering their “support” to the Hurricane Katrina victims.
Mary, one more point. How is the abortion supposed to help the grieving widow? Does it magically solve the problem? How about the homeless victims of Katrina. Let’s just pour some more salt into your already gaping wounds.
Heather,
Simple. PP can abort these 9/11 and Katrina victims, send them back to their desperate situations, but still pat themselves on the back for the important “service” they have donated.
The 9/11 victim is still traumatized and perhaps in desperate financial straits, the Katrina victim still has no home, but that’s beside the point.
“Do you ever watch Father John Corapi? He’s kind of like the new Fulton Sheen. God love you.”
Bobby,
Father Corapi is like my hero, the person I look up to the most. He was in Lowell, Massachusetts about a month ago and I went to see him, he was fantastic. As you know with Father Corapi, prayer is very important….he couldn’t be more correct.
No way!! I was there too!
I loved his line “If Jesus wanted women to be priests, his mother would have been the first.”
Bobby,
Why were you in the clinic??
Sandy,
My girlfriend and I (my wife now) were having sex, and we wanted her to go on the pill. I didn’t really know much back then, what PP was etc. Everything I did back then was my choice and I love my wife more than anything, but it was without a doubt the darkest day of my life. Up until only about a month ago, the only time in my life I had ever seen anyone protesting outside of an abortion mill in person was the day I pulled inside the Planned Parenthood to put my girlfriend on BC. I’ll never forget the faces of the two pro-life women as they looked directly at me. It tears me up inside to even think about it. Praise the Lord for his grace. God love you, Sandy.
Do tell, Bobby.
As an aside, I was in abortion facility once. Interviewed the director. It was right after Hurricane Andrew, so the place wasn’t up and running again at the moment.
Carder,
What was the intereview for?
I was doing research for a play that I wanted to submit to a playwrights festival. I needed information that would help me compose a realistic script. So I called her up, booked the meeting, and had an interesting session. Got a tour and everything. Guess she felt comfortable enough with me to show me the place.
I came across the notes from the interview and was amazed at all I had forgotten. For example, she had graduated with a degree in Social Work specializing in Women’s Issues. I had asked her what the results looked like in the collection jar and she responded, “Like a cotton ball floating in water.” I asked, “How do you answer to folks who say ‘How could you?'” Her response, “When I see protestors standing outside in the hot sun with babies taking all that heat, tell me, isn’t that abusive to that child? How can we be judged if you’re exposing your own child to the elements like that?”
Long story short, the play was accepted despite objections from a few higher-uppers. True irony is that almost everyone in the cast was pro-choice. And what was really sad was the guy who played the abortive father had actually gone through that. He and his girlfriend had aborted a few years earlier. They are no longer together, surprise. At the time he was pro-choice, too.
Whenever I asked folks to critique the script, almost always they would lecture me why they were pro-choice; rarely was it to criticize the script itself.
Just comes to show…
“Paul Hill was wrong in what he did, but the person he killed was a killer himself.”
Sooooo, it is okay to kill “killers”? I thought all humans have a right to life and their lives should be valued solely because they are human?
Posted earlier today:
We pro-life people DO OBJECT to PP’s version of “health care”. They dispense hundreds of millions of dangerous chemicals which wreak havoc on a woman’s hormonal balance and are associated with a myriad of devastating side effects including blood clots and cancer.
Chemical contraceptives also are abortifacients, meaning they kill the tiny embryo indirectly by preventing implantation in the wall of the uterus. This is NOT health care.
Chemical contraceptives are abortifacients? Well, by that logic, every time I have a period, I kill a child. I kill 12 children a year. You kill millions of children every time you masturbate or have a wet dream. Even if you have sex, only one of those children out of millions gets the chance to live. We should really be pushing for legislature so that every woman should be pregnant all the time since she is able to, and every man must try his damnedest to not spill a drop of those precious children.
There are many doctors and legitimate clinics and hospitals in the Fox Valley area. An abortion and women’s chemical poisoning “clinic” is never needed.
Part of the reason people chose PP is because health care is expensive and they don’t have health insurance. I’m not opposed to people going to other clinics, in fact, I encourage it. But those doctors are going to provide the same contraceptives and abortions. They just won’t be as vocal about it. What’s the real issue here? Are you angrier that PP announces it, or does it even matter that hospitals do the same procedures? Why don’t you protest that?
Planned Parenthood promotes promiscuous sex to children and adults, sells contraceptives to them, which perpetuates the practice of sexual activity for “fun and games”, and when the contraceptives fail, it sells abortions to them.
Contraceptives are sold over the counter, and clerks don’t card for it. The failure rate for using contraceptives is a lot lower than not using contraceptives at all. Additionally, Television promotes sex more than PP. You want to see someone saying it’s fun? Look at all the advertisements, commercials, TV programs, movies, billboards, etc etc. (Is sex supposed to be boring?)
Promoting sexual promiscuity perpetuates Sexually Transmitted Diseases and Infections.
Nobody promotes sexual promiscuity more than our own culture by emphasizing its existence and how taboo it is. STDs are a result of not using protection while having sex. Let’s stop ignoring the fact that people have sex, because they do. Let’s use preventative measures to protect our children, rather than force them into self-doubt and guilt over their own sexual urges.
Thus, everything PP sells actually promotes more and more sexual promiscuity which requires more and more of their “services.” This guarantees their repeat business. It does not solve any problems or prevent abortions.
There’s a difference between correlation and causation. Learn it. You’re pointing fingers at the wrong culprit and the victim of the blame game ends up being the innocent children you’re trying to save. Stop contributing to the problem with your ignorance.
Carder,
Funny, I didn’t know cotton balls have arms, legs, and eyes. Who knew?
“Sooooo, it is okay to kill “killers”? I thought all humans have a right to life and their lives should be valued solely because they are human?”
No, I didn’t say it was ok. Do you think it’s ok to kill killers? or is it just ok to kill the innocent?
Edyt,
What do you say to the former abortion worker in the Hannity thread that fully admits their goal is to make sure girls have 3-5 abortions through their teen years so they will use abortion through their lifetime as birth control?
Why does PP make a whopping profit?
Why don’t they have counseling on adoption?
Why don’t they all offer pre-natal care?
Why do they not report child rape?
Why do they fight against women seeing an ultrasound of their baby?
Why do they fight against a Women’s Right to Know?
Why do they advertise for non-qualified people to volunteer in their recovery rooms?
Why did they proceed with a 2nd tri-mester abortion on Erica Goode when it was clear she had a vaginal infection? (She died by the way)
Why do they sell candles, body oils and junk jewelry out of their “clinics”?
ACTUAL REAL ABORTED BABY CARRIED IN NATIONAL PRO-ABORTION PARADE
Did anyone listen to the third hour of the Drew Mariani Show on Relevant Radio on Monday, Sept 10th? Fr. Frank Pavone was filling in as the host and he had Jerry Horn on the show. Jerry tells his story how he carried a real aborted baby in a pro-abortion parade and was arrested. Jerry got all the headlines in the national papers which stole the headlines from the actual Pro-Abort parade. Pro-Abort leaders like Eleanor Smeal and Patricia Ireland were livid!
This is a story you have to hear.
http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=2709171
Mike
Mike,
I heard that and was on the web all morning trying to find something to post…any ideas where we could find those headlines? I can’t even find anything about Jerry Horn…
It was a great show. I find myself cheering while I was making dinner…
Jill,
You know, I was looking at the photo more closely today and think it was clearly doctored. That “Choose Life” sign in the background. Come on.
That was the first thing I noticed…they must have stolen it. Maybe we can get them on theft too. lol
Bobby,
You’re fairly new here…I quote GK Chesterton, Fulton Sheen and Father Corapi once a week!
Of course now that SoMG and I are becoming best friends I’ve been quoting Lewis Caroll and Dr. Seuss. But don’t let that fool you…
Sandy asks:
What do you say to the former abortion worker in the Hannity thread that fully admits their goal is to make sure girls have 3-5 abortions through their teen years so they will use abortion through their lifetime as birth control?
–Sounds like a fake to me. How is PP supposed to accomplish something like that? Do you think they deliberately poke holes in their condoms or maybe adulterate the bc pills somehow so that they no longer work? If they wanted to maximize abortions, why would they provide cheap b/c? It’s silly. If they wanted to increase unplanned pregnancies, they should go with the abstinance-only programs, which are proven not to work.
Why does PP make a whopping profit?
–Ummmm …. good business practices?
Why don’t they have counseling on adoption?
–They do. When I volunteered in counselling the line was : “Being pregnant you have THREE options: Grow the pregnancy and keep the child, grow the pregnancy and give the child up for adoption, or have an abortion.” Adoption was definitely mentioned as an option to every pregnant patient.
Why don’t they all offer pre-natal care?
— The economics of providing pre-natal care are complicated. If you provide pre-natal care you expose yourself to the risk of being held liable for birth defects or failed pregnancies. This can have a significant effect on your operating costs.
Why do they not report child rape?
–Well I personally think they should, but I know people who would cite the patient’s right to confidentiality as a reason not to. Same as with a priest, you know? (Speaking of child rape….)
Why do they fight against women seeing an ultrasound of their baby?
–If the patient wishes to see her sonograms, she can ask.
Why do they fight against a Women’s Right to Know?
–To know what?
Why do they advertise for non-qualified people to volunteer in their recovery rooms?
–What qualifications should you need to volunteer in a pp recovery room?
Why did they proceed with a 2nd tri-mester abortion on Erica Goode when it was clear she had a vaginal infection? (She died by the way)
–That case, where the laminaria functioned as a conduit for the infection to spread, sounds like someone made a culpable error. Fortunately, serious complications from abortion are rare events. (In the USA, death from abortion occurs about ten times less often than death from childbirth.)
Why do they sell candles, body oils and junk jewelry out of their “clinics”?
–Why not?
Stellar post SoMG,
You’ve convinced me!
Here’s a better answer…Why Don’t They Provide Prenatal Care? Because they want you to murder the baby, so they can make a quick buck!
Sandy,
Thanks for the pointed and very valid questions.
Edyta,
We’re waiting for your responses.
I’ll respond to your missive on my post this morning later.
“Speak roughly to your little boy, and beat him when he sneezes: he only does it to annoy, because he knows it teases.”
Lewis Carroll
What qualifications do you think people should have to work in a PP recovery room…………How about you have a few RN’s in there. What if someone codes?
mk,
I can’t find the headlines to the event in 1985 but I did provide a link above where you can listen or download the audio archives.
Mike
thanks for trying mike…
Heather,
How true. I was appalled at SOMG’s post. SOMG doesn’t know what qualifications are needed to work in the recovery room? How about RNs qualified to observe the patient for bleeding, airway complications, and changes in vital signs for starters. How about RNs qualified to assess pain and its management and are licensed to administer the appropriate drugs. How about RNs who can recognize and respond to an emergency situation.
What hospital or outpatient facility would even consider volunteers to staff their recovery rooms? SOMG, you can’t be serious!
PP doesn’t want to do prenatal care? I thought they were so concerned about women’s health. Don’t they advertise prenatal care as one of their major services?
Mary, It’s ridiculous. Somg claims to be a Nurse Practitioner. I have my serious doubts about this. Besides, if you’ve just stated the truth, you have just managed to lose some serious points for PP.
OK I looked up Women’s Right to Know. There are at least two good reasons to oppose this bill: First because it refers to the fetus in utero as an “unborn child”, which it is not. (The progression is: zygote, blastocyst, embryo, fetus, newborn, baby, toddler, and THEN child.) Secondly and more importantly, it requires the doctor to warn the patient of “breast cancer, danger to subsequent pregnancies, and infertility;” which runs counter to mainstream medical opinion and unbiased science.
This act is a government mandate for doctors to lie to their patients. I’m not speaking for PP, but that’s why I would oppose the badly-misnamed “Women’s Right to Know Act”.
…And just to set the record straight, I have never claimed to be a nurse practicioner. I have argued that nurse practicioners ought to be allowed to provide medical abortions and early suction curretage abortions, but Heather’s conclusion that I myself am an NP is in her mind.
Okay, thank God.
Heather, you silly twit, I didn’t say you don’t need qualifications to WORK in a recovery room, just to VOLUNTEER there.
I thought you said that you work in a hospital.
Here we go with the name calling.
Why do they have volunteers in a recovery room? Are they nursing students? Why are they there? Who are they?
Mind you, I’m not saying I’m NOT an NP either. I might be one. You just don’t know.
I don’t really care to.
Well some of them (recovery-room volunteers, Heather) are pre-meds. I know someone who got into med school by talking about volunteering in the recovery room of PP–you know how the admissions committees have an unwritten requirement that applicants have a record of volunteering in a medical setting, to fulfil that requirement he volunteered for PP and got in to a high second-tier medical school, too.
I’m just an LPN.
Some of them are pre meds. How about the others?
Some places have medical students and nursing students rotate through.
SoMG,
First because it refers to the fetus in utero as an “unborn child”, which it is not.
Really?!?! So what is it? A pimento?
Adults are just obsolete children and the hell with them.”
Dr. Seuss
I know there’s a lot of hysteria from some people (like Jill) about recovery from twilight sedation, but that’s pretty much all it is–hysteria, and it comes from a suspect source, a source whose stated goal is to make abortions more expensive than they need to be.
Somg, it sounds like you’re making up as you go along. Why didn’t you say medical/nursing students before I asked?
MK, I already gave you the progression of human development : Zygote, blastocyst, embryo, fetus, newborn, baby, toddler, child. At the time of most abortions it’s an embryo or an early fetus. (Duh)
I just had Versed for foot surgery. I was really glad to see a nurse when I was in the recovery room.
Why don’t you see any danger when a person is receiving Versed? Anything can go wrong. Anaphylaxis, you know.
SoMG,
The third definition is for you…
Child:
# a young person of either sex; “she writes books for children”; “they’re just kids”; “`tiddler’ is a British term for youngsters”
# a human offspring (son or daughter) of any age; “they had three children”; “they were able to send their kids to college”
# an immature childish person; “he remained a child in practical matters as long as he lived”; “stop being a baby!”
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
A child is identified, according to the US Children’s Online Privacy Protection Act of 1998 (COPPA) is someone under the age of thirteen (13).
http://www.amdhelp.com/privacy_glossary.asp
Offspring of parentage; progeny.
brandonlclark.com/glossary.html
Doesn’t mention pimento once…
SOMG,
Exactly what does a volunteer do in the recovery room if not work? Isn’t there a legal issue with volunteers who are not properly credentialled having any involvement in patient care? We don’t have volunteers in our recovery room. Students of any kind are on a required school rotation and must be supervised by qualified RNs and their instructor is present.
Hysteria over twilight anesthesia. SOMG,you’re not serious are you? I’ve had to artificially ventilate more than a few people who were administered twilight anesthesia. It should be treated with a great deal of respect and administered by people with the proper credentials, and who have the training, as well as the equipment present to handle any emergency.
Heather, you were relieved to see a nurse recovering you? Wouldn’t a volunteer with no training in recovery have sufficed?
SoMG,
If you read a few posts earlier, the clinic director I interviewd back in the day told me that “a cotton ball floating in water” best describes the results of an abortion.
You seem to be in the know. Enlighten us. How exactly does a newly aborted fetus look like?
Be specific now…
Well, carder, it’s usually between the size of your little fingernail and the size of the first digit of your thumb, from the tip to the first joint. It’s mostly head, with a big black spot on either side which would one day have become an eye. It has no skin; it’s red. You can see little fingers and toes if you look carefully enough. I’m sure you can find pictures on the net.
Mary: Life-threatening emergencies from twilight anaesthesia are rare events.
SOMG,
Unless you’re the patient its happening to. Or you’re the practitioner facing an emergency situation without the proper equipment or training.
Thanks SoMG,
I have seen plenty of pictures on the net, but I didn’t want to jump to pro-life conclusions, you know, those pro-lifers faking pictures and all.
Bernie Nathanson once described “it” as chopped meat.
Little fingers and toes…
:-(
Isn’t it true that we are “fearfully and wonderfully made”?
If you say so.
“Presumptuous man! the reason wouldst thou find,
Why form’d so weak, so little, and so blind?
First, if thou canst, the harder reason guess,
Why form’d no weaker, blinder, and no less?”
Do you think there may come a point when seeing all those little fingers and toes might bother you in the slightest? Even a miniscule lottery-odds-sized chance?
And how about those big black spots? I can’t handle dead lobsters staring at me, let alone expired fetuses.
Well, I don’t like doing GYN, it’s too smelly for me, and the people who do it are all crazy control freaks.
Yes, I feel sorry for the fetus, but it’s not entitled to live inside its mother’s body without her continuing consent. Occupancy of a uterus requires the owner’s ongoing permission.
The Japanese have a day of mourning for aborted fetuses. (What they don’t have is a right-to-life movement.)
“…the people who do it are all crazy control freaks.”
How do you figure? Aren’t they helping women? Should I be wary of my gyn?
“Yes, I feel sorry for the fetus, but it’s not entitled to live inside its mother’s body without her continuing consent. Occupancy of a uterus requires the owner’s ongoing permission.”
unconscionable power… (in the words of Mother Teresa)
“Yes, I feel sorry for the fetus, but it’s not entitled to live inside its mother’s body without her continuing consent. Occupancy of a uterus requires the owner’s ongoing permission.”
unconscionable power… (in the words of Mother Teresa)
Jasper, why “unconscionable”? Pro-Choicers are guided just as much by conscience as you are. If we go with “inner sense of right and wrong,” Pro-Choicers are going with the thinking, feeling person – the pregnant woman, while you are going with your own desire in the matter and with the unborn, where there is no desire.
Doug
I don’t know why, but I found the GYN people were all control freaks.
Your GYN, like almost all MDs, is probably very different from the way (s)he appears to you the patient.
Sorry for this long post folks, but here goes…
Edyt,
I’m not going to justify with a response, your ridiculous statement that begins with “Chemical contraceptives are abortifacients?…”
In response to: “Part of the reason… What’s the real issue here? Are you angrier that PP announces it, or does it even matter that hospitals do the same procedures? Why don’t you protest that?”
As a matter of fact, I have protested in front of Lutheran General Hospital in Park Ridge, IL, which performs abortions. There are people who protest in front of that place twice a month.
Direct induced abortion is morally wrong, always. There are moral absolutes. Murder is wrong, whether its done in a hospital or a PP abortuary.
Killing an innocent baby in its mother’s womb is the most evil and reprehensible act I can think of. It violates the mother, the baby, and it violates God’s rights. Yes, God, believe it or not, has rights over every person, born or unborn. Why? Because He is God and he created you, and your mother and your father, your brothers, sisters, cousins, neighbors, ancestors, everyone who has ever lived. No one has a right to take another innocent person’s life. And don’t try to start a discussion about war or capital punishment. The point here is that ABORTION IS THE DELIBERATE TAKING OF AN INNOCENT BABY’S LIFE for the sake of convenience.
And don’t bring up rape and incest as if those terrible crimes justify killing the innocent child which was conceived from a sinful act.
“Contraceptives are sold over the counter and clerks don’t card for it.”
I’m not sure what you mean by “card for it.” State laws require one to have a valid prescription to purchase oral contraceptives. If you refer to rubbers, oh, sorry, condoms, sure, they are sold OTC. That doesn’t justify anything about their use. (Just to think of them is disgusting.) (BTW, you’d have to be a darned fool to think that a thin piece of porous latex is a safeguard against a deadly syndrome like AIDS.) Which brings up the point: just because something is a LAW of the land doesn’t mean it’s right. Slavery was legal in the South until after Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation. Abortion was ILLEGAL in the U.S.A. until Colorado passed laws permitting it. Then other states, and finally the Supreme Court lifted all restrictions on elective abortions in Roe v. Wade and Doe v. Bolton. Prior to the legalization of abortion, abortionists were at times prosecuted and sentenced to prison terms.
As far as TV promoting sex more than PP, yes TV and the media use sexuality to sell things. Our society is literally sex-crazed and sex-saturated today. Just because both PP and the media promote sex doesn’t justify it. You seem to have a sense of right and wrong, yet you use arguments to, perhaps, convince yourself that promiscuous sex, and abortion and contraception are morally justifiable. Sex, my dear, is by its very nature for the procreation of children. This is self-evident. Sex is also for the unity of a husband and wife in Holy Matrimony or the sacrament of marriage. Marriage is a sacred bond and the truly human act of conjugal love is sacred because God made it that way. Man (meaning mankind in general and that includes all men and all women) has perverted this holy part of his/her nature to the most awful and despicable levels. Abortion is a symptom of a deep problem in man and woman. No act could be worse than a mother denying her own unborn child its God-given right to live and be born, to grow up, mature and become an adult. The very nature of woman is fully expressed in her fecundity when she unites with her husband and conceives in a unique and sacred way a new human person, a new creation of God. I pray that you will see the truth of this.
“… Let’s stop ignoring the fact that people have sex, because they do. Let’s use preventative measures to protect our children, rather than force them into self-doubt and guilt over their own sexual urges.”
Well, here we go again, trying to justify fornication, not just among adults, but actually teaching and promoting children to fornicate, and giving them the means to supposedly prevent conception and diseases. Are you a mother? Do you plan to have a baby someday? If so, would you want or encourage your own daughter to have sex with boys, or adult men??? Is that what you would want for your own daughter? Young people need desperately to be taught SELF-CONTROL. How does anyone achieve anything in this life except through some degree of self-mastery. We teach youth that they can accomplish great things if they put their mind to it. But in the realm of sexuality, you would teach young people to just do whatever their desires dictate. Don’t worry about whether its right or wrong. If it feels good, do it. I think young people want to be challenged to be responsible adults. They want to know what is right and what is wrong. In fact, every person has some sense of right and wrong inside themselves. Even young children at a certain age become aware of their bodies and have a sense of modesty, and want to cover their bodies with clothes. Everyone knows instinctively that fornication is something different than playing tennis or cards, or a musical instrument. Very different indeed.
If people cannot control their own, as you say, “urges,” then what makes us any different than animals??? Are we animals? Give me a break.
I will say this: there are many, many temptations to sin today all around. It does take supernatural grace from God to be able to resist those temptations. And they only way to obtain that grace from God is to beg Him for it. We all need God’s grace.
“Correlation and causation.”
Big words, huh? Edyt, honey, I’m not ignorant about PP. YOU are the ignorant one. You don’t know what you’re talking about. PP had, from its beginnings in the 1920’s by its founder Margaret Sanger, as one of its main goals the promotion of birth control and abortion, especially to blacks and other “undesirables” to keep their numbers down. Sanger was a racist and a sex-crazed loose cannon who got a lot of support from certain philanthropists, like the Rockefellers, the Fords and the Mellons to support her creation of the Birth Control League, later renamed Planned Parenthood. It was also at the time that women in this country were demanding their suffrage rights. They won that right, and this was good. But at the same time, people like Sanger capitalized on women getting a greater public voice and influence and used that to promote, with amazing success, her philosophies and programs. She believed that anyone should be able to have sex with anyone they wanted to at any time, whether or not they were married. She was in favor of the KKK. She had sympathies with Hitler and the Nazis. Here is a site with much information on Sanger, PP, and the similarities with the Hitler and the Nazis: www klanparenthood com.
Here is a very good paper on eugenics and Margaret Sanger. (Put in the “dots” in the URL)
www lifesite net/waronfamily/Population_Control/Inherentracism pdf
Sorry for the weird characters in my post above.
I was simply using quotation marks. Is there any way to correct that, Jill? (or anybody?)
SoMG.
You wrote regarding reporting child rapes?
” Why do they not report child rape?
–Well I personally think they should, but I know people who would cite the patient’s right to confidentiality as a reason not to. Same as with a priest, you know? (Speaking of child rape….) ”
If for some reason you were in a situation talking a girl seeking an abortion who told you facts that lead you to believe or really suspect she was a rape victim, would you report it? Why or why not?
This is hypothetical.
Somg, you are making the PC side and PP look worse and worse each time you post. First of all, blood clots don’t have heads. Second. You keep on saying that abortions are uneventful procedures. We can clearly see that’s not true. We still have deaths, they just go unreported. We have child rapes going unreported, we have abortionists molesting patients for years. Wake up. We haven’t ever left the back ally days. I’m not sure if you’re a male or a female, but I sense you have a strong dislike for women. Perhaps that’s why you don’t care about what happens to us.
GYN’s are control freaks? Maybe they have to be. They have a difficult job to do. My last GYN was very thorough. I was glad!
Somg, I just re read your post. You feel sorry for the fetus? Why? A little human compassion leaking through? I wouldn’t think twice about a blood clot.
The Japanese have a day of mourning for aborted fetuses? Why would you mourn something that was never alive to begin with?
Well, carder, it’s usually between the size of your little fingernail and the size of the first digit of your thumb, from the tip to the first joint. It’s mostly head, with a big black spot on either side which would one day have become an eye. It has no skin; it’s red. You can see little fingers and toes if you look carefully enough. I’m sure you can find pictures on the net.
That is actually a very accurate description of what my miscarried baby looked like. :-(
Yes, I feel sorry for the fetus, but it’s not entitled to live inside its mother’s body without her continuing consent. Occupancy of a uterus requires the owner’s ongoing permission.
I have to repeat the question already asked- why do you feel sorry for the fetus? I’m not saying I want you to stop feeling sorry for them, I just wonder why you, with your stance the way it is, would say something like that. Does it ever bother you emotionally to watch certain abortions?
This statement by you confuses me almost as much as your statement that you’d rather be conceived and aborted rather than not be conceived at all.
Somg, one more thing. I do know of many women who had “uneventful abortions.” Setting aside the fact that their child was killed, that is. However, that’s a blanket statement. To assume that every woman will have safe and uneventful abortion is dangerous. Everyone’s body is different. Some people have reactions to anesthesia. Some have died after taking the “abortion pill.” Abortions into the second trimester must become even more dangerous.
Does it ever bother you emotionally to watch certain abortions?
No Bethany, it doesn’t. First of all he’d have to have emotions, which he doesn’t, and second of all he’s made it clear that the only thing that bothers him is the “smell”…
“I smell the smelly smell of something that smells smelly.”
– Mr. Krabs
Somg, If you are finally feeling sorry for aborted fetuses, maybe your conscience is trying to tell you something. Get out now!
MK, *sigh* I believe what you say is true. Oh well, it was a nice thought for a moment. To think that Somg might be having a change of heart. Nah, not possible.
“No, I didn’t say it was ok. Do you think it’s ok to kill killers? or is it just ok to kill the innocent?”
Neither is okay, Jasper. You seemed to imply that because that what’s-his-face performed abortions, that his death was “not a big deal” compared to the “innocent” women Ted Bundy killed.
Rae,
Are you still there?
“MK, I already gave you the progression of human development : Zygote, blastocyst, embryo, fetus, newborn, baby, toddler, child. At the time of most abortions it’s an embryo or an early fetus. (Duh)”
Oh, thank goodness. I thought I had 6 children, but according to you I only have 4, since “babies,” “toddlers,” and “children” are not the same thing.
Paul, 5:11a: I fixed your post. Someone smarter than me can explain how to prevent that from happening when you cut and paste from a Word document, etc. All I know to do is retype the weird characters.
Good post, btw. Lots of good information. You must have worked very hard on it.
Jill,
Thank you very much. I did spend a lot of time on writing that. But maybe it isn’t worth it, particularly toward the bottom of the comments, if few people will read it. I see that the comments sections have a kind of life of their own:
1) First they are conceived by you
2) After you form the concept in your mind, you put it together in a word processor
3) Then you upload it to your blog
4) Then others begin to acknowledge its existence
5) And they begin interacting with it
6) After many comments have been made, the blog gets retired to history
7) Eventually it all but disappears and dies
Interesting.
Sorry for the double post. I had *twins*. It was an accident.
But God doesn’t make accidents, even though we think that we do. (Sorry, couldn’t resist that.)
Paul, yes, some blog meisters enforce keeping people on topic, but I think to allow conversation to flow affords the opportunity for relationship building.
And sometimes the conversations go places that need to be gone to.
It’s true that once a post falls off the main page, it is usually abandoned. But people pick up the conversation, if desirous, on a newer post.
As for posts eventually disappearing and being forgotten, no. You never know when someone will do a search and get help from something you wrote.
And this blog has thousands of lurkers, too, which are people who read but don’t comment. So you never know, Paul, you never know. Keep contributing. Your comments are valuable.
Thanks Jill.
Your site here along with the recent tidal wave of pro-life response in the Aurora community has really gotten me reading a lot of posts. I think you have the best coverage of the events in Aurora, with help from your contributors. Just wish I lived a little closer to Aurora to be able to be more involved at ‘ground zero.’ But it’s 40 miles away for me.
I will try to come out on Saturday for the Jericho March finale. Maybe see you there.
SCOOP: $7.5 mil libel lawsuit against Planned Parenthood/Steve Trombley to be filed Tuesday
On behalf of a number of Aurora citizens who took part in the 40 day prayer vigil, Tom Brejcha of the Thomas More Society will file a $7.5 million lawsuit against Planned Parenthood/Chicago Area and its CEO Steve Trombley Tuesday….