Pro-aborts suppress pro-life free speech
Two events this week spotlighted the truth: People calling themselves “pro-choice” aren’t that at all. They are pro-abortion. They are anti-choice. They do all they can to suppress the free speech of pro-lifers.
At a March 27 rally sponsored by liberal feminists in Washington, D.C., to promote the reintroduction of the Equal Rights Amendment, one pro-abort ripped up a sign held by a pro-lifer with the simple message, “Abortion hurts women.” See video here:
And members of a pro-life student group at Indiana’s Purdue University had to spend the night of March 28 defending their display against pro-abort vandals. According to the student newspaper, The Exponent….
Every year, Students for Life commemorates the loss of unborn babies by setting up a cemetery of crosses. Each cross represents two children lost to abortion each day, said [Curtis] Verner. There were 1,800 crosses standing. they post annually on Purdue’s Memorial Mall….
“Last night some girl came by and started pulling up the crosses,” said… Verner, a junior in the School of Electrical and Computer Engineering and president of the organization. “It made for a long night.”
Those vandals better watch out. Pro-abort vandals at Northern Kentucky University that included a professor were prosecuted a year ago for similar illegal actions. See photo here.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Pro-aborts HATE free speech.
Pro-aborts hate free speech. Pro-choicers embrace it. My solution to that problem would have been to hold my own sign up next to that woman, not rip hers down.
I am sure the woman who tore the sign considers herself pro-choice.
Alyssa, that would be a much better solution, if her holding a sign was a problem.
Haha
My bet: anti-abortion activists planned this video clip. One got to hold a “simple banner remebering the unborn” and the other one stood there for a few minutes, holding the focus onto the banner until someone got up to take the sign down. And it worked like a dream. Did you not find it weird why the camera would solely focus on the banner for ages?
I probably would have held up a sign next to it reading “so do all other things in this world…”
Joe,
Did they pay all those pro-choicers to clap too?
Can anyone say paranoid?
mk
Funny, MK
What does your post even mean? It takes two anti-abortion activists to do this clip. They don’t have to pay pro-chociers for clapping. i think they did that quite readily by themsevlves.
Confused, anyone?
Joe,I get the feeling that someone close to you has aborted.Maybe your wife or girlfriend.Why are you such a staunch supporter of CHOICE?
Joe,you answered one of my posts the other day.I asked you how many abortions was too many.You agreed, like a lot of others, that more than one would be questionable.His Man then asked you to evaluate the insanity of your statement.He said to replace the word abortion with murder.Is abortion murder Joe? If not,then why not let women have 14,18,22 abortions? It’s a choice right???
Hi Momof3
No, no one close to me has abortet, and even if, if that was a qualifier for being pro-choice, why are you so staunchly anti-abortion even though people close to you ahve abortet?
Why I am a staunch defender of choice? i think it has to do with the fact that I find the implications of outlawing abortion worse than a woman choosing to abort her pregnancy. Maybe I change my mind on it when I have managed to theorize away the grey areas around the issue that arise regarding rights, interests and responsibilities of consistent with liberal philosophy. Until that point I will personnally remain against abortion, but for the legality of it.
haha, HisMan’s funny substitution exercise was aimed at me? who is he do speak about insanity? He still hasn’t answered my questions about Job.
“He said to replace the word abortion with murder.Is abortion murder Joe? If not,then why not let women have 14,18,22 abortions? It’s a choice right???”
I ask you to replace the word abortion -and we are talking an abortion here that happened because you didn’t really think about all your options- with “bad and sad deicison”. Now, one bad and sad decision in your life I guess counts as learning experience and as something that might make you grow and know better. Maybe it even makes you a mento that can help other people to makie a better choice. 2, 3 or 9 bad and sad decisions about the same issue are bordering a stupidity of extreme depth and do not have my sympathy, sorry.
See, it is fun substituing words! Suddenly, my statement makes sense!
Sorry I cannot type today.
Oh and by the way I am a convinced hetero, so no girl friends for me.
Joe,so angry.The reason I defend life is simple.The bible says killing is wrong.The fact that I know of several dozen women that have aborted, only helps my case.I see their pain.The pain brought on by a poor CHOICE.I will always tell other people that it’s wrong,because it is.
What is a convinced hetero?
Sweet, Mom, what makes you think i was angry? I am actually winding down after a stressful and productive day right now.
Yes, keep telling women it is wrong. You are very much entitled to your opinion. Just hands off the legislature :-). And if you do want to change the legilature, I reccommend some non-Bible related proposals, because secular states in theory at least should remain free of religion.
Convinced hetero = quite sure I do not feel attracted to other women…
“mom of 3” you wrote: “The bible says killing is wrong.”
No it doesn’t. It only says MURDER is wrong. And it does NOT say that abortion is murder.
” … I know of several dozen women that have aborted…”
What does this mean? Are you saying you actually know several dozen women who have had abortions, or that you only know “of” them? From where?
Dear Readthetext,Apparently you need to go back and do just that. Abortion IS murder.It’s just a cleaned up word for it.
Readthetext,
“No it doesn’t. It only says MURDER is wrong. And it does NOT say that abortion is murder”
You’re right, the Bible does say murder is wrong…and abortion is the killing of an innocent human life which equals- guess what- murder.
“What does this mean? Are you saying you actually know several dozen women who have had abortions, or that you only know “of” them? From where?”
From what I’ve read of momof3’s accounts in previous posts, she has personally met dozens of women who have aborted. I have too, and they have discussed their experiences with me as well.
Thanks Bethany.Readthetext,Perhaps I’m the acception to the rule.The majority of women that I know have had abortions.I’m sure glad I’m NOT one of them.They wanted to confide in me,so I was happy to let them do so.Because of them,I have more reasons to hate abortion!! The lies they were told,the abuse in the clinics,the procedure itself.Anyone that cared about women would never promote or advocate abortion.
I don’t understand how one pro-choicer could make a bad decision by ripping up a banner and suddenly she speaks for the whole pro-choice movement, but pro lifers get to dismiss the bombings of abortion clinics and the murder of ob/gyn’s who perform abortions as “crazies”.
There seems to be a little bit of a disconnect.
I don’t have any problem with people holding up pro life signs. The forum seemed a little off, though. When people protest Bush speaking at certain places, don’t they have to stand outside the forum, not inside it? I’m not familiar with that city’s protest restrictions or permit requirements, but I thought I would just throw it out there that it could have been in violation.
Just like you pro-lifers don’t have to identify with the extremes of your group, so can us pro-choicers. Each group has some pretty awful people in it. You cannot apply either to the whole of the group.
Bethany and Mom,
I know a rather large number of men and women myself.
Of the ones closest to me, and I mean very close, one of them lives with an abusive boyfriend (the last time I saw her on a camping trip, she looked like she had been hit by a truck, one of them, at the age of 50 still smokes pot every day(she had three of them), and one of them is dead. (Due to a mental illness that was brought on by her three abortions. I didn’t make this diagnosis, her psychiatrist did)
Three other people that I am very close to also had abortions but are now actively pro-life. One is a deacon in the church, one is contemplating becoming a priest and one is a Chicago Cop.
The first three are miserable, their lives are a shambles, they are fighting depression, alcoholism and drug addictions.
The second three have made peace with God, come back to the church are some of the happiest, most well-adjusted people I know. None of them suffers from depression.
But I forgot, abortion has no adverse effects on the mother , right? My bad. Must be coincidence.
mk
Joe,at least we do agree that abortion is murder.I’m glad you’re not going to drag me through that entire body autonomy,fetus and zygote lesson. I’m not up for it today.
FYI, “murder” is a legal term that means “to kill someone illegally.” The commandment reads: “Thou shalt not kill.” But the Bible also states that a man who causes a pregnant woman to miscarry shall pay her husband restitution. A man who kills a pregnant woman shall pay with his life. Interesting, isnt it, how in a time of an eye for an eye, the life of an unborn wasnt considered legally equivalent to the life of its mother?
Jen,
This argument might have merit if the entire crowd didn’t applaud.
And from personal experience, I can tell you that I have never met a pro-choice person who expressed their views to me without getting angry, using foul language, calling me names or all three.
While some of you on here have managed to control your anger, it still seeps through and only serves to prove my point.
Jill,
could you post that sight that lists all the violence against pro choicers and compares it to violence against pro lifers? I can’t think of which one it is, maybe you can.
Thanks,
mk
MK,SOOO glad you joined us! Ya know,my gal pals have these same problems.Drugs,drinking,low self esteem,suicide attempts.Yep,must be a coincidence.
Thanks mom,
Hubby’s off of work today and took me to breakfast…got back as soon as I could.
Did you notice that when Bobby Schindler came on, most everybody suddenly backed off?
Wonder why that is? I can’t figure it. Can you?
mk
Oh ya,All pro-choicers really ARE filled with peace and joy and understanding….as long as you agree with them! I have come up against the very same obstacles you have MK.Oh Lord don’t ever say “I’m pro-life”. Whenever I do,I know I’m in for a s*** storm!!
Yep MK-sure did.I can’t figure it out either.You need a break from this board from time to time. The first time I visited,I left in tears.What can I say? I’m sensitive. In this short morning I’ve already been accused of suffering from mental problems.I’m just gonna let it roll off, like water on a ducks back.I’m not here for myself. My mind is on all of the children.
If we changed the situation, making it a pro-life forum with a pro-choicer holding up a banner, would you be certain that a similar reaction wouldn’t occur? Something tells me it would be pretty likely that a similar reaction would occur if the tables were turned.
It’s dangerous to categorize either camp as wholly understanding or wholly hostile. You have had encounters with hostile pro-choicers? I had several pro-lifers not only tell me I must be an atheist for being pro-choice, but drown out my voice with arguments that weren’t even relevant to the discussion. I could barely think they were yelling so loud.
Most people can respectfully debate. Being pro-life or choice doesn’t mean you are automatically one way or another.
Figure 1
Comparison Between Violent and Illegal Activities
Committed by Pro-Abortionists and Pro-Lifers
Documented Crimes by Pro-Aborts (HLI) Alleged Crimes by Pro-Lifers (NAF)
Deadly and extreme crimes against persons (including murder, manslaughter, infanticide, attempted murder and manslaughter, kidnapping, torture, rape, incest, sexual crimes against children, mayhem, malicious wounding, arsons and firebombings [marked “[***]” in the detailed table of pro-abortion violence]): 2,155 27
Less serious crimes against persons resulting in actual injury (including assault, sex crimes, hate crimes, reckless endangerment, violation of civil rights, medical malpractice, incompetence, and misconduct, botched abortions, extortion and child abuse [**]): 1,635 146
Property crimes (including burglary, vandalism, destruction of property, theft, larceny and butyric acid attacks [*]): 690 1,409
NOTE: Statistics for this table are from the statistical summary of pro-abortion violence and crime. You can view this summary by clicking here.
These statistics highlight three vivid contrasts between the pro-life and pro-abortion movements;
Well, seeing as how I’m pro-choice and not pro-abortion, these statistics don’t really matter to me, MK.
That didn’t copy very well, let me see if I can do better.
http://abortionviolence.com/SUMMARY.HTM
I’ll just have to link it…if anyone can figure out how to post it, I’d really appreciate that.
Thanks,
MK
Jen,
Sorry, my mistake.
mk
MK thanks so much for those links! Im really learning a lot!
About that link you posted–I checked it out, and it seems a little untrustworthy. For example, I could find no time range for the statistics presented, and no definition of “pro-abortion.” I checked on the state-by-state page that lists crimes that occurred, and the second “pro-abort” case that occurred in Georgia has nothing to do with abortion. The third is about a ten-year-old who was raped by her step-father and forced to deliver the baby at home, after which he killed him. She didnt have an abortion because he would not permit it, so I dont understand why either of these examples would be included in the statistics. I did not read further because I felt the site was unjustified.
“Jen,
This argument might have merit if the entire crowd didn’t applaud.”
MK,
At James Kopp’s trial (a man who killed an ob-gyn in suburban right near my hometown) had pro-life supporters picketing outside of the court room. Saying that he should be set free.
http://armyofgod.com/Buffalo.html
http://www.christiangallery.com/koppdidit.htm
He murder a man and the pro-life crowd stood up and cheered.
http://www.christiangallery.com/pic-one.jpg
And that’s hello of a lot worse than clapping when someone tears down a sign.
This doesn’t apply to all pro-lifers.I would never say that Bernard Slepian’s life should have been taken.Thanks for the pics of aborted children though.I guess when you get right down to it,the entire abortion industry is ugly,bad and dangerous.Bernard was a victim too.
Momof3,
Just like Bernard Slepian’s murder doesn’t apply to all pro-lifers, the tearing down of a sign doesn’t apply to all pro-choicers.
Can’t we all agree that there are awful people in each camp and should rather look to the average qualities of each group?
Yes Jen,I can agree on that.
Let’s not forget abortionist LeRoy Carhart.He drove his car into a sidewalk counsler,and he never even asked the man if he was okay.He just sat in his car on his fat rear end.He acted like he was stoned.His ding-bat wife did nothing as well.The guy got it all on video.
MK, I hope you can agree too.
Looks like from these posts you have had crappy experiences with pro-choicers and women who have had abortions. I really have experienced the exact opposite. Hateful and hostile pro-lifers, considerate pro-choicers, and women who have had abortions and feel they are better off because of the choices they made. It doesn’t really matter. It doesn’t make either of our anecdotal stories the norm or fact. It’s just personal experience.
I think this article and some of the comments have unfairly characterized pro-choicers as haters of free speech and dissent. Pro-lifers can be just as intolerant, so I think history and logic can lead us to the conclusion that neither group is GENERALLY intolerable of the freedom of speech.
Yes Jen,
Of course I can agree to that. I just feel like I’ve been hitting a brick wall this past couple of days. When I first came on, the group of girls I was talking were on the defensive and it took a lot of work on their and our parts to get to a place where we were treating each other civilly. I hadn’t really noticed that some of those girls were on less and new ones (like yourself) had come on and it felt like we had gone backwards. I’m starting to realize that it’s just new people, so we have to establish new relationships.
It gets so hard when you feel like everyone is comin’ at ya with claws out…I’m sure you feel the same way. As I said to the other group of girls, you wouldn’t be here if you didn’t want to learn,if you’re minds weren’t open, and it takes a lot of guts to come to a pro-life site and into “enemy” camp. You don’t see me goin’ to pro-choice sites because I couldn’t handle the pressure. So, I’m sorry if I get a little sarcastic. It’s really just frustration, as I’m sure you know.
The other problem is that some of the pro-choice people on this site are truly antagonistic and are only here to stir up trouble. It’s easy to take out my frustrations on those that are truly here to dialog.
Peace,
mk
Very well put as always MK.I feel the same way.I think that a lot of people/women are here for some truth. Deep down they may want answers.I didn’t always consider myself pro-life.I used to ‘Straddle the Fence’ as they say, on the abortion issue.I used to tell people “Hey, your body,your choice.” I began to investigate the abortion industry and educate myself.Knowing what I NOW know,I would never tell a woman that an abortion could be a good thing.Even coming to this board,helps me with more feedback.I’m still learning too.
I think Jen has the right idea here. Both sides have extremists, but to paint either side as “one” certain way is rather ridiculous. Like Jen mentioned earlier, I don’t believe that every pro-lifer thinks blowing up clinics is okay just because some of the extreme pro-lifers do that, so why would you assume that all pro-choicers are against free speech?
See you all later.Going to a fish fry.Bye.
Hahahaha.
‘Pro-abortion’, yeah right, there are SO many of those people.
Pro-choice is about a woman deciding for herself what she wants to do. If every woman who ever got pregnant EVER decided she wanted to have her child, we would be find with that.
So, no, pro-abortion is just semantic propaganda. Try again.
alan,
Yawn.
been there.
done that.
try to keep up, will ya?
mk
“mom of 3”, you wrote : “Abortion IS murder.”
This may be your opinion but the Bible does not say so.
“The majority of women that I know have had abortions.”
What an extraordinary coincidence! How do you come to know so many women who have had abortions?
“… The lies they were told,the abuse in the clinics,the procedure itself.”
What “abuse in the clinics” do the women you know who have had abortions complain of? Were they sexually molested by clinic personnel or what?
“…my gal pals have these same problems.Drugs,drinking,low self esteem,suicide attempts.”
I assume you’re talking here about your gal pals who have had abortions. Do you honestly think that if these women had been forced by the government to carry their pregnancies to term and have babies instead of abortions they’d be free of these problems now?
Seems to me if an abortion can cause a woman to drink, use drugs, have low self-esteem, and attempt suicide, there’s probably something wrong with her in the first place.
Regarding Carhart: Why do you think no charges have been brought against him for driving into the sidewalk counsellor? Given that it was caught on video, shouldn’t it be an open-and-shut case?
Could it be that the counsellor knows that he was violating federal law by picketing too close to Carhart’s clinic entrance, and fears being charged himself?
What a great response MK.
And I guess I missed where you have gone over what I posted and pointed out where what I said is false.
Alan,
I guess.
MK
I certainly was foolish to believe that anyone on here was worth talking to, and actually I had heard that you Mary Kay were the most respectful and intelligent person on these boards.
Turns out it was my mistake.
But whatever, my point remains true.
Alan,
I give respect when I feel a person deserves respect. The very first words out of your mouth were “HaHaHaHa”.
Then you said: ‘Pro-abortion’, yeah right, there are SO many of those people.
Pro-choice is about a woman deciding for herself what she wants to do. If every woman who ever got pregnant EVER decided she wanted to have her child, we would be find with that.
So, no, pro-abortion is just semantic propaganda. Try again.
No Hi, my name is Alan. Thanks for welcoming me to this site. I was just wondering why you use the term pro-abort instead of pro-choice. This has always bothered me about your movement. I find it offensive. Can you explain?
See. Not so hard.
And then I would have answered you in a respectful way.
I would not come into your home and laugh at you and then accuse you of things before I had even said hello.
Common courtesy. That’s all I’m asking.
Not that you agree. Not that you back down, just simple, common, decency.
After awhile you just get tired of fending off all of the arrows.
If you’d like to try again, I’d be happy to discourse.
MK
I’d just like to say that my mother has had an abortion, and while she regrets it sometimes, she’s still pro-choice.
Just a thought.
Heather,
All animosity aside, and I mean this, please…
We often see families going into the abortion clinics together. Mom, Dad and a couple of kids, usually 2-4 year olds.
And we have wondered. What would it be like to be the child that wasn’t aborted.
I’m really asking you sincerely. I’m sorry about the sarcasm before.
And I know this is a HUGELY personal question, so tell me to back off if you want.
But did it have an effect on you?
Thanks,
mk
Mk,
Did it ever occur to you that perhaps the family wasn’t going in for an abortion at all? Planned Parenthood provides a variety of medical services such as pap smears, std screenings, pregnancy tests, breast cancer screenings, and birth control just to name a few. In these cases, would it be any different than her family waiting for her appointment to be over? And yet, you are so quick to judge. Think before you speak.
Amy
Amy: Also, increasingly, pediatric care.
Amy,
Talk nice. First, I wasn’t addressing this comment to you, and while you are free to jump in at any time, it would be nice if you didn’t come in attacking.
There are certain phrases that get thrown around on this blog that I fear we are going to have to start fining people for using. Fetii is one of them. So is personal autonomy.
But by far the absolute worst is…Don’t be so quick to judge…
Hi Amy.
My name is Mary Kay.
I am pro-life. I understand you are pro-choice. You had a thought about those families going into the clinics. Why, I’d love to hear it.
Oh, you think they are going in for birth control.
Perhaps, but since the majority of women that go into this particular clinic are there for abortions on Saturday mornings, I should think that mothers who are waiting to abort their babies might be a little put off by children running around. I would be willing to bet that the mothers waiting for their abortions would see this as tasteless. This is not a pediatrician’s office and most abortion clinics post on their websites that you are requested to leave your children at home.
Perhaps you too, would do well to “think before you speak”. Otherwise you come across as just another smart mouthed teenager, and will not get much respect on this site.
If you want to continue to converse, that’s great.
But this is a place for dialogue, not a boxing ring. If you’re looking for a fight, I suggest you go elsewhere.
mk
Fr. Euteneuer
Alan is just soooo above it all.Way to make a fool of yourself right off the bat.
MK,
The abortion that I mentioned was before I was born. I know that my mother regrets it, and that’s likely while she kept me (although my grandmother may have had something to do with the end decision).
To my knowledge, my mother never had an abortion after that. She had me, and then (with about four years between each of us) my half-sister and half-brother.
-Heather
Momof3
When did I say I though abortion was murder? By our current definitions of murder, and also by the intuitive understanding of it by most people outside the staunchest anti-abortion movement, abortion does not fall into the category of murder. It is certainly the killing of a potential person/someone of human nature.
The commandmend of the Bible I think literally translated says Thou shalt not murder. It does NOT say Thou shalt not kill. How else do you think the Crusades, witch-burning and many a killing could take place explicitly in the name of God and the Church? As soon as you read this commandment properly and keep in mind that for many people abortion does not fall into the category of murder, your argument leaves many people very cold indeed…
Joe,
most people outside the staunchest anti-abortion movement, abortion does not fall into the category of murder.
Hellllooooo….all pro-lifers believe it is murder. If they don’t then they are not truly pro-life, but pro-choice with the caveat: only in the case of rape, incest and the life of the mother.
your argument leaves many people very cold indeed…
Yeah, well it leaves the bodies of a lot of dead children cold too. As in permanently cold.
mur
MK – I love ya! Have I told you that recently? Would you mind if I added a bit to your last response?
Joe:
The synonym for murder is kill. What is a synonym you may ask? Let me tell you.
Synonym: Noun – one of two or more words or expressions of the same language that have the same or nearly the same meaning in some or all senses
Now let’s continue..
Murder: verb – 1 : to kill (a human being) unlawfully and with premeditated malice
2 : to slaughter wantonly : SLAY
3 a : to put an end to b : TEASE, TORMENT c : MUTILATE, MANGLE d : to defeat badly
Hm.. The 1st definition of murder is ‘to kill’ and {3 a} is very interesting don’t you think? To put an end to…. a pregnancy perhaps?
Joe,don’t keep on lying to yourself.
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