USCCB “false” ads
On Feb. 28, Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington asked the Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority to investigate “an ongoing and misleading ad campaign currently running on WMATA vehicles, and run by ‘The Second Look Project,’ which is sponsored by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.”
Just what are the ads? The two spotlighted by CREW were these:
See ads in full view here.
The USCCB corroborated the facts behind the ads on its website:
While some news media and polls still say the Court legalized abortion only in the first three months, in fact it made abortion legal through all nine months of pregnancy, effectively striking down the abortion laws of all 50 states.
In Roe v. Wade, the Court ruled that abortion may not be prohibited or restricted in the first trimester (first three months). In the second trimester abortion must still be allowed, and may be regulated only to serve the mother’s health. Even after “viability,” when the child is developed enough to survive outside the womb, abortion must still be allowed if needed to preseve the mother’s “health.” Roe’s companion case, Doe v. Bolton, defined maternal “health” to include “all factors – physical, emotional, psychological, familial, and the woman’s age – relevant to the well-being of the patient.
Thus abortion must be allowed, even in the ninth month, if a woman would be upset about continuing her pregnancy. James McMahon, M.D. has cited “youth” or “depression” among his reasons for performing late-term partial-birth abortions. Martin Haskell, M.D. has said most of the partial-birth abortions he performed up to about 25 weeks were “elective.” George Tiller, M.D. has done elective abortions thorugh 25 weeks and “fetal indication” abortions (to kill handicapped chidlren) through 38 weeks.
See more USCCB posters on page 2.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
So, let me get this straight. If a woman is six months pregnant and she finds out that carrying the fetus to term will kill her, she should not have the choice to save her own life?
Oh and by the way, you mention “partial-birth abortion” which is not a medical term. You’re talking about the procedure known as D&X which is used only to save a woman’s life, where the fetus will die anyway.
I cannot believe someone as amazingly unintelligent actually lives. Pro-choice is just that, PRO-CHOICE, the ability to choose to carry a pregnancy to term or abort it. Pro-choice is not pro-abortion, and if you are too ignorant to recognize that, which obviously you are, well then all I can do is hope you get in a car crash. Oh, and PS: Abort73 is a propaganda website that spreads dis-information, but I’m sure you knew that.
So let me get this straight, Megan. Do you even know what the UCCB’s position on that issue is? If you did, you’d know that there is a place in virtually all pro-life positions, particularly the UCCB, for medical procedures to save a woman’s life, which unfortunately end in the baby’s death. What there isn’t a place for is direct killing of the baby.
Megan, “partial birth abortion” is both a legally and medically defined term.
Enut, what’s the problem? If abortion is such a great constitutional right, why run from being known as an avid supporter? Enthusiasts run from no other constitutional right.
Your aversion to being called pro-abortion is akin to being embarrassed about supporting civil rights or women’s voting rights, if indeed abortion is such a laudable constitutional right.
Have you ever heard someone say they support civil rights but don’t want to be labeled as a supporter of civil rights? “Hey, just call me pro-choice on black equality.”
Where’s your abortion pride?
Once you have had an abortion you have become a murderer. Why should society have rules against killing,speeding,robbing when abortion is legal? It is legalized baby killing!!!!These women should be locked up. Iv’e NEVER killed a soul. I deserve my freedom.I have had 2 unplanned pregnancies.I HAD my kids!Get over it. If you are not sorry about abortion,then you don’t regret murder.You aren’t any better than a street thug.Also how about these sick over sexed perverted abortionists?Rapes,molestations-most on minors.Do you pro choice people condone this?
Jenny,
What does your choice to keep carry your pregnancy to term have anything to do with any other woman. You made you decision and I hope that it worked out for you.
“Also how about these sick over sexed perverted abortionists?Rapes,molestations-most on minors.Do you pro choice people condone this?”
I’m not sure what you’re talking about it the above quote, but what happens when abortion becomes illegal, what’s going to happen to the minors who have illegal abortions? Isn’t it better to try and keep it legal and safe as well as try to reduce the numbers?
“Also how about these sick over sexed perverted abortionists”
Now that’s just not nice. Great generalization and unfounded claim, though. I almost believed it. Then I got to the word “about”, and I realized there was nothing to be learned here.
Jenny,
The difference between murder, speeding, robbing, drugs and abortion is: murder, speeding, robbing and doing drugs are detrimental to either the social fabric of society or the economic well being of society or both. We need laws to protect society because without society individuals could not live. Murder, speeding, and robbing are also violating other people’s legal, civil or unalienable rights.
Abortion on the other hand does not threaten society. Whether I abort or not does not harm you in any way. On the contrary, I could be harmed in case I did not abort. Banning murder protects people’s rights in a society. Banning abortion violates women’s rights in a society. Does the difference slowly become clear to you?
“Your aversion to being called pro-abortion is akin to being embarrassed about supporting civil rights or women’s voting rights, if indeed abortion is such a laudable constitutional right.
Have you ever heard someone say they support civil rights but don’t want to be labeled as a supporter of civil rights? “Hey, just call me pro-choice on black equality.”
Where’s your abortion pride?”
Jill,
I’m not sure I see how your claims are supposed to follow here. You have drawn an analogy between a pro-choicer not wishing to be called “pro-abortion” with a pro-civil rights advocate not wanting to be called “pro-civil rights”. But the two cases are not analogous. The problem, it seems to me, is that “pro-civil rights” is an accurate description of someone who has that stance – he or she is _for_ civil rights. But someone who is for choice is not “for abortion”, and hence is not “pro-abortion”. Many pro-choicers personally disagree with abortion, but do not feel they have the right to impose their beliefs on others. Many others think that we should work (through proper sex education and access to contraception) toward preventing abortions, as they are invasive and sometimes costly medical procedures. What we on the other side of the debate are for, then, is not abortion, but the presence of a legal option for women.
Since “pro-abortion” is not an accurate description of the stance taken by those who support choice, then, your argument from analogy is flawed. Perhaps it is time to admit that the real reason you and others apply labels like “pro-abortion”, “abortionist”, etc. is that you find that appealing to emotion via semantics, rather than rational argumentation, is the best way to support your position.
Joe,abortion is the violent murder of a baby.If society can’t respect human life of an unborn child,then yes that’s harmful.
Lando, please run the names of these abortionists:Brian L. Finkle.He is in prison after sexual abuse,rape and stalking charges were filed against him.He was pulling this cr** for years.He’s still in prison taking it as one big joke.I’ll let you see for yourself.Also,run the name of Dr.Edward Allred.Another fine character in the abortion industry.I have many more to give you. Start with these 2. See how they really feel about women.
Jenny,
As has been said many time on various threads of this blog, the fact that there are a few bad apples is not sufficient to condemn an entire medical practice. There have been problems with dentists and gynecologists as well. It’s a sad fact, but has no bearing on whether dental procedures, gynelogical exams, or abortions should be legal.
Diana,Perhaps that’s the difference between you and I. I would rather get the word out to women. Also the message to beware!These names are just 2 of many. We also have George Tiller,LeRoy Carhart and Steven Pack.Please give me several names of other doctors. I’d be happy to check them out. I happen to think that this is more than enough corruption. How many more shall we need to add before someone takes action? Women are in so much fear to OUT these abortionists.
Jenny,
This is not a difference between us. I have absolutely no problem with making it widely known that certain doctors are corrupt. In fact, I believe it is important to make information about doctors (of all sorts) and their histories available to prospective patients. We need to protect ourselves, after all.
But where the real difference between us lies is that you seem to be attempting to claim that because there are corrupt doctors in one field of medical practice, that practice should be made illegal. I apologize if this was not your intent, but if it was, I must say that it is a bad argument. There are bad apples in every practice, but this has no bearing on whether the practice itself is acceptable.
Unfortunately, I do not feel comfortable listing the names of any abortion providers on a pro-life blog. Given the current political climate, and given that I don’t know who might be reading this, I’m afraid that this might be tantamount to putting their names on a hitlist. The best practice for anyone considering an abortion, however, would be to look into the history of the provider they are considering (the internet makes this a much easier task) and to check out the clinic itself.
Well, there’s another difference between an abortionist and a dentist. Nobody would think twice about posting the name of a dentist. Why would an abortionist have to be scared ? I thought this was something everyone was so proud of keeping legal. Why should there be fear?
Jenny, there is fear because those who provide abortions are often targeted by radical pro-life groups and individuals. Groups and individuals that bomb clinics and go out on “holy missions” to shoot doctors, nurses, and interns. Groups that post names on their websites and then cross them off as those individuals are killed.
Incidentally, I find it difficult to believe that you could have misunderstood my post or that you were unaware of such groups. I don’t believe that setting up straw men and attempting to defeat them leads to a fruitful debate or understanding of the issue at hand.
Well,Let’s talk about abortion clinics themselves. Me and a lot of others don’t believe in violence against abortionists.I am aware of those lists.Now how about the baby born alive at the Florida clinic and the worker that threw the baby on the roof. Ok who is the violent one now?? I’m glad that they were charged and locked up. They seem to think that they can get away with anything since they get away with murder.They are going to be shown by the police that they are not going to be able to keep it up.Let the crack downs begin.
Jenny,
Once again you are claiming that a few bad apples make it such that an entire medical practice should be made illegal. This is a bad argument, for the simple reason that any practice (not just medical) will involve some people that are just despicable. But this is irrelevant to whether or not the practice should be illegal. If we were to follow this logic, then dentistry, gynecology, law enforcement, general business practice, and the practice of law would all be illegal, since there are examples of individuals in each and every one of these practices that have done horrific things.
Do I think that incidents like the one you described should happen? Of course not. Do I think that doctors who are corrupt should be stopped and punished for their actions? Sure. But the actions of these abortion providers are not the actions of all the rest. And the fact that bad apples exist is irrelevant to whether the practice should be legal or not. Your conclusion does not follow from your premise.
By the way, I generally don’t believe that such events have actually occurred unless I see reports of them in non-biased news sources (abortionno, etc, don’t count).
Well,It sounds as though you are in tons of denial then Diana. I saw this on the local news. So now are the news,operation rescue,and you tube all in on the conspiracy? It was in my local news paper and I don’t even live in Florida.The Metropolitan clinic in New Jersey is closed for maiming one woman and killing another.Is this a lie too? No I think not.
Jenny,
I never said that I didn’t believe the local news, etc. You really have a knack for setting up straw men and tearing them down. That’s a fallacious form of argumentation, you know.
I personally, have seen nothing on the news. I recognize that this does not mean that it hasn’ happened. If you would like to post general news sites (not pro-life sites, but run of the mill news sites) that report these events, I will believe that they have occurred. Even if they have, my earlier point still stands.
Anyway for that matter I don’t think that things on the pro-choice side are very factual. A lot of my girlfriends are devestated over their abortions.They claimed that they were lied to at the abortion clinic,and if they could go back in time they would never have done it.Some of them didn’t realize how upset they were until years after their abortions.Some of them are involved in Project Rachel[for post abortion healing]Some are active in Safe Haven Ministries.{another post ab healing group. These are message boards filled to the brim with stories from broken and devestated women.Silent No More is also good. Anyone hurting? There is help.
Jenny,
I think that there are people on both sides who skew facts, etc. But most of the pro-choicers I know will be the first to admit that getting an abortion can be a difficult decision for many women, and that some women will come to regret their choice. I’m glad that there are groups to help these women deal with their regret/bad experiences.
Once again, however, the fact that some women regret their choice is not sufficient to ban the practice. Many people make choices that they later regret, choices that, in the end, led them to depression, etc. But this is no reason to eradicate the option.
Furthermore, it is important to remember that many women who made the decision to terminate their pregnancy have no regrets, no depression. Women who found compassionate, non-judgmental doctors who helped them with an extremely difficult situation. I’m one of them. You can find others here: http://imnotsorry.net/
Also, Jenny, I’m still waiting for non-biased sources reporting the terrible events you’ve been referring to.
Well,Diana which events are you referring to? Let me know. The simple fact that you stated earlier that you don’t believe much of what you see or read it may be difficult for me to prove my points.I have seen the I’m not sorry site before. Hey,wonderful.Carry on with life.Seems there are quite a few of you.
Jenny, if you did not read my earlier post, here it is again:
I never said that I didn’t believe the local news, etc. You really have a knack for setting up straw men and tearing them down. That’s a fallacious form of argumentation, you know.
I personally, have seen nothing on the news. I recognize that this does not mean that it hasn’t happened. If you would like to post general news sites (not pro-life sites, but run of the mill news sites) that report these events, I will believe that they have occurred. Even if they have, my earlier point still stands.
The events I’m referring to are those that you were alluding to earlier, the live born baby being thrown on a roof, etc.
Diana,please get yourself out of denial. I’m not buying it anymore.You did too hear about the Fla. baby.I’m sorry but now I’m going here with you.You had an abortion.I don’t respect you, and I think you are a liar on top of it all. It’s much like talking to a murderer in prison. Do you really expect the truth out of those people? You are a liar.
Also,the Imnotsorry site is pathetic. Please save it.I’ve seen it before and had to leave it before I threw up.I’m glad you’re so cool with the fact that you killed your child.Now you can live as you wish.Why should women like you maintain freedom??? I have never killed a soul in my life.How do you feel that you are any different than someone that gunned someone down on the streets?I believe you have been playing dumb with me.
Check out how that one girl went out to dinner after her kid’s murder…..pretty sick if you ask me.
Cat and Jenny,
First of all, many of these women do not believe they have murdered anything. You seem unable to fathom that people might think differently than yourselves. I was merely attempting to show you that your claims about the trauma of abortion do not generalize, and hence are not reason to make the procedure illegal.
Second of all, even if we consider a fetus to be a person with all the rights that come with that status, it still does not have the right to use a woman’s body any more than if I plugged a random person into you who would die if they were detached. That person does not have a right to your body; you do not have an obligation to sustain them. Thus, the fetus does not have the right to use the woman’s body and the woman has no obligation to allow the fetus to continue using it.
And finally, I have been nothing but reasonable and civil on this blog. In return, you have attacked me. You think I murdered my child. Fine. I believe different. I believe I terminated an unwanted pregnancy, ending the usurpation of my bodily autonomy by a group of cells which I believe have no status as a person. But rather than attempting to engage in a debate with me, you have resorted to ad hominem attacks. I can only assume that is because you have nothing else with which to back up your opinion.
Oh, and Jenny, I’m still waiting on those sources. I’ve heard people on this blog commenting on the incident you mention, but I’ve not seen any neutral sources report on it. Nor had I heard about it before I came on this blog. All I’ve asked you to do is to post a site that is unbiased that has reported this. But I’m beginning to suspect you cannot find one, which would explain why you resort to name calling rather than a debate involving rational argument and facts.
Oh, and by the way. Personally attacking people who are trying to debate civilly with you, and gain a shared understanding of the issue does not help your cause. It only makes it look as though you have only rage on your side, rather than reason.
Oh,save it Diana.You did kill your baby.If you must clean it up then do so.Go to Operation Rescue. This is one of many with the info. I heard this in my local newspaper as well as on my local news. It was also all over the net.
Diana,you should have thought about the fetus[latin for little one] using your body before you made it.
Jenny,
If it was all over the net, then please do me the kind service of posting an unbiased site where I can read about it. If you are so dedicated to your cause, and so concerned about how “evil” people involved in the practice are, then you should be more than willing to find one of these unbiased news sites and post it. If not for me, than for others who might be reading these posts. I myself have searched and found no reports on this incident on any site that was not explicitly anti-choice.
And once again you’ve resorted to ad hominem attacks rather than attempting to engage in a rational debate with me. As I said before, this only damages your cause. I’ve given arguments for my position. Either refute them or offer up your own arguments, if you can.
I gave you one to start with- Operation Rescue.Oh ya-Please give me a site that shows just how many women died from the coat hanger abortions. Where are these facts?
“Diana,you should have thought about the fetus[latin for little one] using your body before you made it.”
Jenny,
I was on birth control at the time. Contraception fails. But consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy. If you know a prowler is on the loose, and is dead set on coming into your house, even if you very foolishly leave your window unlocked, you have not given consent to him to enter your home. You especially have not given consent if you put bars on your windows and one of them just happens to be defective. It is the same with sex. One may be aware of the potential consequences of the act, and be foolish about it or be careful. But either way, consent to the act is not consent to the potential consequences.
Jenny,
Operation Rescue is not unbiased. It is explicity anti-choice. All I’m asking for is something on CNN, or NBC, or a local news station’s site, or, hell, even Fox News.
And Jenny, I never made any claims about coat-hanger abortions. I am under no obligation to provide you with any sources on information that I did not cite. You however, did make claims about live born babies being thrown on roofs. I’m now merely asking that you back this up with an unbiased source. I don’t think my request is unreasonable.
Well then why couldn’t you find it in your heart to keep the child or give him/her up for adoption? I am currently pregnant.In my first month of pregnancy my doctor put me on some medication.He went on to tell me that this would not hurt my baby. Not a blood clot,not a blob of tissue.A baby.These were HIS words.Now how is it that when a woman goes for an abortion,they never tell you it’s a baby?Why don’t abortion clinics want you to see an ultrasound? If there isn’t anything to see then why worry?
well then what do you fear if abortion is made illegal?
I’m telling you I saw it on my local news and I don’t even live in Florida.It was FOX8.It was in the Plain Dealer[my local paper] They are not making it up.
Diana, 3/9, 10:44a: You can view a pdf of the police report here.
Jenny,
I didn’t want a baby. I was in my second year of college and working full time to pay tuition. I had to live with my parents in order to use all my money to go to school. If my parents had discovered I was pregnant, they would have disowned me. And as for adoption, I, like many other women, didn’t feel as though I could put a baby up for adoption, leave it to the whims of an overcrowded system. My reasons, at the end of the day, are irrelevant. You may think I’m callous and indecent. Fine. But I believe (and have argued) that I have a right over my own body, and I exercised it.
The reason they don’t tell you it’s a baby is because medically it isn’t. For most women having abortions (almost 9 in ten), when they walk into the clinic it is an embryo I’m sure your doctor refers to your baby as a baby because you’re keeping it. It will be a baby. And congratulations, by the way. I’m always happy to hear when women have wanted pregnancies.
I fear that abortion will be made illegal, taking away one of my most precious natural rights – my right over my body.
Jenny, I never said they made it up. I’d just like a website where I can read about it. If something like this happened, it seems like it would be really big news. It has to be on the net somewhere. I’m just asking that you find it.
Oh, and as for rates of abortion (almost 9 out of 10 in the first trimester): http://www.guttmacher.org/in-the-know/timing.html
And as for rates of death in countries where abortion is illegal:
http://www.guttmacher.org/in-the-know/safety.html
Jill,
As I told Jenny, Operation Rescue is explicitly anti-choice. I had asked for a site that was non-biased. Any run of the mill news site would have done it.
I will look over the pdf. If this did happen, it is very sad. But nonetheless, as I have argued before, a few bad apples are not sufficient reason to condemn a whole practice.
On one final note:- Jill,I’m convinced that Diana would complain if her icecream was cold.-Nothing is good enough for her to read.I’m done.Second Diana you said that you had an abortion because you didn’t want a baby.Here’s something to ponder. Don’t have sex.If you insist on having sex then please triple up on protection.There are condoms for men and women today.Maybe you could get a tubal ligation.I’m not sure how old you are,but please don’t abort another baby.
Jenny,
How would you know if anything was good enough for me to read when you haven’t posted anything?
And as for not having sex – once again, I refer you to my earlier post. Consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy. Rather than merely restating your views, defend them.
I do use protection. I was on birth control when I became pregnant. I learned from my mistake and now use multiple methods.
And as for being done, Jenny, you never started. You have not offered a single argument in defense of your position. Nor have you attempted to challenge any of the arguments that I have made. You have, however, at several points resorted to emotional appeals and ad hominem attacks. If you’re done doing that, well, thank goodness. Rhetoric and fallacies won’t get us anywhere.
I’ve had it for now, anyway. I have to go grade papers.
Thanks for all the sites, Jill (on this thread and the other). I will look into them.
You’re welcome, Diana.
Jenny–
“If you insist on having sex then please triple up on protection.There are condoms for men and women today”
Do NOT use male and female condoms together. Using them together causes them to break, so don’t go around telling other people to do that. While doubling up is a very good idea. Try a birth control pill and either male condoms OR female condoms. Never Both.
Thank you Danielle,I stand corrected.
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