Condom TV
By Mary Kay Hastings:
Planned Parenthood Condom TV Ad Mocks Religion, Angels
SAN FRANCISCO, April 17, 2007 (LifeSiteNews.com) –
Planned Parenthood Golden Gate (PPGG) has just released a “Safe is Sexy” television ad that features a young couple being interrupted from having unprotected sex by their Guardian Angels. The ad can be seen here:
The thirty second spot features a hip, young couple that is saved from engaging in unprotected sex by divine intervention. The ad is aimed at youth ages 18-24 and will air throughout the next ten weeks on MTV, VH1 and FX. Said the Planned Parenthood chaplain….
“I love the fact that this ad challenges popular conceptions of religion and sexuality,” said Lisa Sargent, Chaplain at Planned Parenthood Golden Gate. “I think it will really break through the clutter and get people thinking about sexual responsibility as part of their larger value system, which may be religiously influenced.”
Can you say “oxymoron”? Or maybe skip the “oxy”…
Catholic League president Bill Donohue commented on this ad saying,
“Given the moral hollowness of Planned Parenthood, it is not surprising to learn that it is now in the business of hijacking religious imagery to pander its sex-without-consequences message.
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Donohue added: “Ironically, while PPGG is ripping off Guardian Angels, the California chapter of Planned Parenthood is lobbying to defeat the ‘Missing Angels Act.‘”
The bill, which is being pushed by women who have experienced stillbirth, would require a certificate of birth when this occurs. Currently, all states are required to issue a death certificate for a stillbirth; they also require the family to bury or cremate the baby.
Joanne Cacciatore, who heads the Missing Angels Foundation, has said, ‘How in the world do states ethically justify telling someone they have to bury someone who they are not willing to say existed?’
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Dawn Eden of the New York Daily News, said “Planned Parenthood has long had a relationship of sorts with the Angel of Death; it invites him into its clinics a quarter-million times a year.”
As you can see in the image below from Planned Parenthood Golden Gate‘s 2005 annual report, 53% of the revenue taken in by that chapter of Planned Parenthood‘s national organization came from “government fees and contracts.” Even assuming those dollars went directly to services, that frees up donor money for making porny, Christian-bashing condom sales pitches for underage teens.
The Planned Parenthood Federation of America has received over a half-billiion in taxpayer funds in the past two years alone. That money is fungible; it enables the organization to spend more money on public-relations efforts like “A Superhero for Choice,” as well as on abortions.
See the Dawn Patrol blog here:
http://www.dawneden.com/blogger.ht
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Typical Planned Parenthood Tactic.
Can’t face the truth?
Then make it disappear.
Can’t think of a good argument?
Insult the guys mother and clothes.
Can win in congress?
Humiliate your opponent.
Can’t reach the masses?
Indoctrinate the children?
Sick, seriously, sick.
And fractured fairy tales was more advanced in it’s cartooning…
Yeah, because preaching abstinence to teenagers works perfectly fine. Don’t you think if they want to have sex, it’s best to have safer sex?
My “favorite” part about all of this is the fact that PP believes that their “horny” angels are somehow challanging the status quo on religion.
I do not know a SINGLE christian who would question his faith on the basis of this blasphemous commercial.
This message is aimed at children, and honestly does nothing more than promote a pornographic, distubing reality in which angelic voyuers get their kicks by watching sin.
Of course, I expect nothing less from Planned Parenthood.
Ingrid-
If safe sex was truly “protective” I might have a different opinion. As it stands we give our children a false sense of safety by claiming that sex can be fee of concequences.
1/2 of all unplanned pregnancies result in a month when the woman was using birth control!
Condoms are not affective against all STD’s nor are they full proof at preventing the ones they claim to prevent. (I believe the number hovers around 70%)
I got all of this information directly from the AGI.
If sex ed explained that safe sex is not exactly “safe”, it would have much more validity. It would also have more validity if it explained the emotinal issues tied with sex instead of glossing them over. No one talks about how you feel when you are 30 and married and have herpes, have been pregnant and and an abortion, and have had double digit sexual partners. That type of sex is never as freeing as profiters pretend it to be.
I really hate it when people make fun of Angels.
If we are suppose to respect the ‘liberal’ religion, then why can’t they respect ours?
ugg… I have so much more to say. But I can’t form it into words… uggg..
MK, Bethany, Hisman, all,
here’s how the MSM distorts and frames yesterdays ruling. They’re so biased, they don’t even explain what exactly this grusome procedure does, leaving the viewers with the perceptions that we’re a bunch heartless people.
http://www.mrc.org/cyberalerts/2007/cyb20070419.asp#1
jasper
MK:
Excellent post. You amaze me with your sense of relevance.
Lauren and Jasper……welcome.
Ingrid….good to see you on this blog again. I think?
I’ve got to travel today so will miss all of you.
And I love to read Psalm 91. A lot of angel stuff in there and about God’s protection, the proper context in which God uses his mighty beings. Most people were and are terrified at their appearance. PP is just plain ignorant. If they knew who angels were, they would turn pale with fear.
PP, well, if they kill babies in the womb without a thought why does this commercial surprise anyone? They are reprobate.
Oh, come on. The commercial wasn’t that bad. If you want to get pissed about using divine against conventions, bitch about the Sarah Silverman program..
I thought the commercial was kind of funny.
Lauren, everything I’ve ever read about condoms has mentioned that they aren’t foolproof. Unlike myself, I had a friend who had comprehensive sex ed: it was stressed that nothing was perfectly safe, but if you were going to have sex, not-perfectly-safe was better than nothing.
Explaining emotional issues won’t work because the emotional issues aren’t the same for everyone. I’m not a virgin; I’ve never felt any sort of regret for my sexual experiences. I’ll be getting married within the next two years, and I won’t feel any regret then. Indeed, I’ve never known anyone who has had any sort of regret: to the contrary, most of the people I’ve spoken to have only expressed regrets that they waited as long as they did.
What a great message:
Don’t have sex, but if you do this will make it not quite so bad.
It’s like saying “don’t smoke, but if you do smoke lites, it’s not quite so bad”
Of course, this is giving “comprehensive sex ed” the benifit of the doubt. I’ve seen PP’s website for teens, so I hardly think this is the case.
As far as regret after sex, maybe you don’t know anyone who has regrets but I do. That fact alone shows that sex has emotional concequences that may manifest. Also, it is impossible to know how you will feel upon marriage since you are not yet married.
Marriage tends to change the we we look at our past.
Lauren:
I have had comprehensive sex ed, and with every contraceptive possibility presented, we were told the effectiveness of it. We were also told EVERYDAY that the only 100% way to avoid pregnancy and STD’s is abstinence.
Sex ed tells you that safe sex isn’t 100% safe. That’s the education part of it all.
During class, we also went over every possible emotional issue that could arise from having sex.
Sex ed. is credible because it informs people.
Right, just like this commercial.
I got “sex-ed” from planned parenthood. I hardly concider a bag of condoms, a pack of birth control pills, and a stern warning to “be safe” to be comprehensive.
Oh yes, and abstinence was seen as something only brainwashed, closeminded bigots should practice.
Don’t believe me? The PP Candada website has a abstinance survey. I answered the questions as I would as a virgin and was basically told I needed to losen up and let go of my patriarchal morals. Sex is good, I just was too closeminded to see it.
Lauren, if I suddenly had regrets about my past because I got married, I would view this as a problem with myself, not my past. I would not be getting married if I did not feel comfortable with my past: my past has made me who I am, and I love who I am. I embrace my past, feel no regrets, and am quite comfortable about my sexual experience.
I don’t see how you can compare sex to smoking. Smoking is an unnatural activity: sex is a very natural human act for bonding, procreation, recreation, any number of reasons. By portraying sex as something dirty, akin to a bad habit that might lead to your death, you’re doing a great disservice both to yourself and anyone that might be under your wing.
Sure, emotional issues might manafest: they might also not manafest. Your experience does not prove they always do just as mine does not prove they never do. But by portraying sexuality in such a negative light, you are not doing anyone favors.
I have a hard time believing that you went to Planned Parenthood for sex ed. but, nonetheless…
There’s a difference between going and picking up contraceptives and having an education.
And, I’ve been to the PP Canada website a few times, and cannot find this survey…would you mind posting the link for me?
I’m not portraying “sexuality” in a negative light.
I’m portraying premarital sexuality in a negative light.
I believe I am doing grand favors by warning that free sex is not as free as our society pretends. There are real physical and emotional risks that are simply glazed over in the zeal for physical satisfaction.
The sex ed was given during a “comprehensive” well women visit.
I’m not sure if the link to the survey still exists but I’ll look.
OK, I didn’t have the link on my website, but I did record my results:
Sometimes you feel like it’s not your choice. Maybe your religion or parents are influencing your decision. Take control. Remind yourself that what you do is always a choice. You choose whether to follow the values of your religion. You choose whether to be honest with your parents. They may not be easy choices, and others may not agree with the choices you make. But they are still YOUR choices and they should be based on what’s important to you.
Maybe you feel ready to do it, but haven’t found the right opportunity or person. This is still your choice. You are choosing to respect your partners that don’t want to have sex. You are choosing to have sex in a situation that feels right for you. Other people may make different choices than you. That doesn’t mean that one of you is right and one is wrong. Every person has different values and reasons. Get to know yours.
ok, when I read that I see: Make the right decision for you, not the decision that will make other people happy.
I see nothing wrong with that.
I don’t see it as they think you should just loosen up, or that you’re close minded.
Lauren, I don’t see what’s wrong with your results to your quiz. I think you’re seeing things that aren’t there. It’s simply reminding you that you ought to take control of yourself: religion shouldn’t control you, your parents shouldn’t control you. You might make your choices based upon those factors, but make sure you put a little of yourself in there as well. Don’t base your entire life on making others happy. The results seem to simply be encouraging you to get to know your values and your opinions, indepenedent of what others are saying, and make your choice based upon that.
Lauren, what’s wrong with premarital sexuality? As you cannot prove the Bible to be empirically true, please don’t quote it at me. What differences does a piece of paper make? Does me having premarital sex make me somehow less of a person? Just because you believe it to be wrong doesn’t mean that the rest of us do. Why force your beliefs upon everyone else?
Look at the subtle propaganda in the answer.
It doesn’t ask me if I feel as though I don’t a choice…it *tells* me.
It tells me to “figure out [my views on sex]” instead of working under the notion that I already have.
The overall feel of the response is that I have not thought out my view.
To quote someone else:
“It suggests that being influenced by your religious beliefs implies that you aren’t thinking for yourself. So basically, you’re brainwashed if you beleive that it’s immoral to have premarital sex. It also implies that you want to, but haven’t had the right chance (instead of the truth that some people believe that sex outside of marriage is wrong, stupid and dangerous).”
Lauren, I really think you’re reading far too much into that. It says that sometimes you feel as though you don’t have a choice. Not that you always don’t. It says that every person has different values and reasons, not that yours are absolutely wrong. It says to figure your values out, not that your values are wrong. I have trouble believing that everyone’s values are absolutely set in stone, never to evolve. I’m not saying your values upon premarital sex will change, just that it’s likely that, over time, some of your values will change.
Also, as 90% of Americans have had premarital sex, I’d like someone to explain why we should continue to ignore the fact that abstinance simply does not work?
Link to story: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16287113/
Marraige changes sexuality in many ways.
The first and most obvious shift is in regards to commitment. It has been shown that when people simply live together outside of marraige, the woman generally rates her level of commitement equal to that of a married woman. This is not true of the man. A man living with his girlfriend outside of marraige actually rates his level of commitement LOWER than a man living seperately from his girlfriend.
Most people concider commitment to be an important componant of a sexual relationship.
There are also numerous physical risks involved in premarital sex. My mother (a pro-choice, highschool counselor) used to have a poster in her office that asked “how well do you know the 62 people you had sex with last night?” The general idea was that if your partner had had 2 sexual partners, and their partner had had 2 sexual partners, you had oppened yourself up to expodential sexual risk.
Your risk of STD goes up everytime you switch partners or begin having sex with a new partner. Of course, marriage does nothing to prevent this if both parties are not faithful to the marriage. That is one of the reasons why extramarital sex is so damaging.
Lauren, I won’t be any more committed to my fiance when I marry him than I am now. I wouldn’t marry him if I didn’t feel completely committed to him. And as you don’t cite any sources in regards to things that have “been shown,” I tend to discount that idea.
You’re right, when you have sex you’re opening yourself up to risks. That’s why you get tested, use condoms, use the pill (if you’re female) and take care of yourself. Mitigate those risks. I know I’m clean because I got tested; I know my fiance is clean because he’s had no previous sexual experience of any kind. So long as you take care of yourself, you can make the risk much, much, lower.
Less it still TELLS me what I feel. Prefacing that message with “sometimes” does absolutely nothing to nullify its meaning.
The fact that 90% of adults have premarital sex is a testimony to the state of our nation. There have been many critiques on the data in the recent abstinance study that I implore you to read before accepting its methodology as Truth.
I know that the method of teaching abstinance has changed radically since the inception of the study. It should continue to evolve to be more practical and effective.
What should also be examined is the overall effectiveness of “comprehensive” sex education at delaying sex, lowering std rate, and preventing pregnancy. Every study I’ve seen has shown CSE to fall short in all of these catagories.
Less, have I ever stated something that wasn’t backed up by data? No. I simply felt no need to muddle through the internet to find a study that you could easily find yourself.
http://www.psychpage.com/family/mod_couples_thx/cohabitation.html
This site has various studies involving cohabitation vs. marraige in both straight and homosexual couples.
On risk:
Yes you can lower your risks, but as long as your are engaging in premarital sex, your risk of disease is still higher than someone who is married or abstinant.
Less –
You spook me out sometimes. I swear I said that exact same thing!
Lets see if I can tell you something based on experience.
Do I regret my sexual past now that I am married? regret? not really.
Do I wish I had waited? yes, I do.
I realized that my wedding night was a waste of time. It wasn’t special. It really didn’t mean anything other than the same old same thing. Yes, there was a bit more passion. But not the same.
I realize now that the closeness my husband and I could have had is clouded by our past. I’m not saying we aren’t close, I’m just saying that we weren’t able to ‘discover’ each other without the momories of what someone else had done to us.
I wish he was the only man I ever slept with because of how much I love him. I didn’t think this way until we were trying to have a family.
I’m not saying you will feel this way. I’m just trying to shed some light on why some people say that you will regret it.
Lauren – I do have to agree with you on what your results said. I can see where it can be taken the wrong way by someone who is inexperienced and trying to find themselves. IMO I think it would add a sense of guilt/shame to being a virgin.
Lauren, I really don’t see how it tells you what to think or feel. Perhaps you’re overly sensitive about your position on premarital sex? It’s very obviously in the minority, and if you haven’t really thought about why you believe the way you do, the constant challenges to the way you think must be frustration. Even if you know exactly why you belive as you do, the fact that very few agree with you must be frusting.
Again, I would like to see citations of these studies. Without proof, I’m afraid that these claims are cheap words.
Also, you never explained to me why premarital sex was wrong?
“The Planned Parenthood Federation of America has received over a half-billion in taxpayer funds in the past two years alone. That money is fungible; it enables the organization to spend more money on public-relations efforts like “A Superhero for Choice,” as well as on abortions.”
That makes me upset.
Lauren, as you made the claims, the burden of proof rests upon you. That’s how debates work. I’m afraid that the page you gave me, while interesting, was not adequate. Claims such as this
sex – cohabitators are less likely to be sexually faithful, and thus more prone to worry about sexually transmitted diseases, less motivated to work to improve their sexual relationship, and more likely to deal with sexual jealousy
Are not backed by any studies, do not have citations, and do not explain their methodology. Correlation does not always equal causation, and as the initital study is not listed, it is impossible to ascertain whether or not their methodology and methods of determening causation are acceptable.
While I have heard that cohabitation increases rate of divorce, though I have heard no reasoning supporting why.
Valerie, I understand what you’re getting at. I really don’t understand the mindset behind it, but I understand what you’re saying, if that makes sense? I dislike the idea of marrying a man I have never slept with, as sexuality is very important to me in a relationship: if we weren’t sexually compatable, I would question the long term possbilities of a relationship. I understand that the wedding night might be less “romantic,” but I’m really not too concerned: I’d sacrifice the romance of being my partner’s one and only lover to knowing everything about my partner any day.
Less don’t be partronizing. I have thought out my views on premarital sex VERY carefully.
The “Reason” premarital sex is wrong from a secular stand point is the concequences of the act outweighing any possible benifit.
I gave you a page referencing several studies. I’m trying to find a version of the actual study availible for free as it is illegal to republish study material on public boards unless it is publically availible.
Blah I can’t find a free version.
Here’s the study see if you have any luck:
Journal of Family Psychology (Pre-engagement cohabitation and gender asymmetry in marital commitment. Journal of Family Psychology, 2006;20(4):553-60).
Less, there have literally been dozens of studies done on cohabitation.
Here are just a few that I have found:
1 Haskey, J., ‘Trends in marriage and cohabitation: The decline in marriage and the changing pattern of living in partnerships’, Population Trends, Vol. 80, 1995, pp. 421-29. Return to text
2 Ermisch, J. and Francesconi, M., Cohabitation in Great Britain: Not for Long, but Here to Stay, Institute for Social and Economic Research, University of Essex, 1998; Ermisch, J., Pre-marital Cohabitation, Childbearing and the Creation of One-Parent Families, ESRC Research Centre on Micro-social Change, Paper Number 95-17, 1995, from British Household Panel Study. Return to text
3 Waite, L. and Gallagher, M., The Case for Marriage: Why Married People are Happier, Healthier, and Better Off Financially, New York: Doubleday, 2000, p. 46. Return to text
4 Wellings, K., Field, J., Johnson, and A., Wadsworth, J., Sexual Behaviour in Britain: The National Survey of Sexual Attitudes and Lifestyles, London: Penguin Books, 1994, p. 116; Steinhaiser, J., ‘No marriage, no apologies’, New York Times, 6 July 1995. Return to text
5 Waite and Gallagher, Case for Marriage, 2000, pp. 111-14. Return to text
6 Kiernan, K. and Mueller, G., The Divorced and Who Divorces?, CASEpaper CASE/7, 1998, Centre for Analysis of Social Exclusion, May 1998; Waite, L.J., ‘Does marriage matter?’, Demography, Vol. 32, No. 4, 1995, pp. 483-507; Daniel, K., ‘The marriage premium’, in Tommasi, M. and Ierulli, K. (eds.), The New Economics of Human Behaviour, Cambridge UK: Cambridge University Press, 1996; Korenman, S.D. and Neumark, D., Does Marriage Really Make Men More Productive?, Finance and Economics Discussion Series, No. 29, Washington DC: Division of Research and Statistics, Federal Reserve Board, May 1988; and Sarantakos, S., Living Together in Australia, Melbourne: Longman Cheshire, 1984. Return to text
7 Joshi, H., Paci, P., and Waldfogel, J., ‘The wages of motherhood: Better or worse?’, Cambridge Journal of Economics, vol. 23, 1999, pp. 543-64. Return to text
8 Sarantakos, S., Living Together in Australia, 1984, p. 138; Horwitz, A.V. and White, H.R., ‘The relationship of cohabitation and mental health: a study of a young adult cohort’, Journal of Marriage and the Family, Vol. 60, 1998, pp. 505-14. Sarantakos, S., Living Together in Australia, 1984. Return to text
9 Mastekaasa, A., ‘Marital status, distress and well-being: an international comparison’, Journal of Comparative Family Studies, Vol. 25, No. 2, 1994, p. 183; Kurdek, L.A., ‘The relations between reported well-being and divorce history, availability of a proximate adult, and gender’, Journal of Marriage and the Family, Vol. 53, February 1991, pp. 71-78; Robins, L. and Reiger, D., Psychiatric Disorders in America, New York: Free Press, 1990; Horwitz and White, ‘The relationship of cohabitation and mental health’, 1998. Return to text
10 Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report 43, No. 8, Washington DC: US Government Printing Office, 4 March 1994. Return to text
11 Ermisch and Francesconi, Cohabitation in Great Britain: Not for Long, but Here to Stay, 1998. Return to text
12 Ermisch, Pre-marital Cohabitation, Childbearing and the Creation of One Parent Families, 1995. Return to text
13 Ermisch, Pre-marital Cohabitation, Childbearing and the Creation of One Parent Families, 1995. Return to text
14 Sarantakos, S., ‘Children in three contexts: family, education and social development’, Children Australia, Vol. 21, No. 3, 1996; Meltzer, H. et al., Mental Health of Children and Adolescents in Great Britain, Office for National Statistics, London: The Stationery Office, 2000. Return to text
15 McClean, M. and Eekelaar, J., The Parental Obligation, Oxford: Hart Publishing, 1997; Seltzer, J.A., ‘Relationships between fathers and children who live apart: The father’s role after separation’, Journal of Marriage and the Family, Vol. 53, 1991, pp. 79-101; Beller, A.H. and Graham, J.W., ‘Child support awards: Differentials and trends by race and marital status’, Demography, Vol. 23, 1986, pp. 231-45. Return to text
16 Burghes, L., Clarke, L, and Cronin, N., Fathers and Fatherhood in Britain, London: Family Policy Studies Centre, 1997. Return to text
17 Haskey, J., ‘Stepfamilies and stepchildren in Great Britain’, Population Trends, vol. 76, 1994. Return to text
18 Daly, M. and Wilson, M., The Truth About Cinderella: A Darwinian View of Parental Love, London: Weidenfeld and Nicholson, 1998; Malkin, C.M. and Lamb, M.E., ‘Child maltreatment: A test of sociobiological theory’, Journal of Comparative Family Studies, Vol. 25, 1994, pp. 121-30; Smith, C. and Thornberry, T.P., ‘The relationship between childhood maltreatment and adolescent involvement in delinquency’, Criminology, Vol. 33, 1995, pp. 451-79. Return to text
19 Flood-Page, C., Youth crime: Findings from the 1998/99 Youth Lifestyles Survey, Home Office Research, Development and Statistics Directorate, Crime and Criminal Justice Unit, 2000, pp. 31-3. Return to text
20 Social Exclusion Unit, Consultation on Young Runaways, March 2001, p. 11. Return to text
21 1. Court Procedures for the Determination of Paternity 2. The Law on Parental Responsibility for Unmarried Fathers, Lord Chancellor’s Department, March 1998, p. 15. Return to text
22 Report, Daily Mail, 16 June 1999. Return to text
23 Solicitors Family Law Association, Fairness for Families: Proposals for Reform on the Law on Cohabitation, Autumn 2000. Return to text
24 Sarantakos, Living Together in Australia, 1984, pp. 105, 144. Return to text
25 Whitehead, B.D. and Popenoe, D., ‘Sex without strings, relationships without rings’, The State of Our Unions, The Social Health of Marriage in America, The National Marriage Project, Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey, 2000, p. 13. Return to text
26 Waite and Gallagher, Case for Marriage, 2000, pp. 40, 116. Return to text
27 Smart, C. and Stevens, P., Cohabitation Breakdown, London: Family Policy Studies Centre, 2000, pp. 33, 23. Return to text
Not all of these are specifically about cohabitation, some simply show the affect cohabitation has on other areas of life.
I’ll back up Valerie here. I can attest to the consequences of not waiting. My husband and I didn’t, our wedding night was boring. It was shame..lol.
But moreso, my husband had been with other girls before me. He was my one and only. He carried some “baggage” into our marriage. I will attest to it being emotionally difficult for me. Because here I was, experiencing things for the first time and he had BTDT with someone else (a few someone elses). You may argue that I wouldn’t feel that way if I had other conquests, but I don’t believe that. There were and have been many issues that have arisen because of my husband’s past. In fact, just a few years ago I was told by my OB/Gyn that I had herpes. They took a culture and sent me home to wait. It was a very LONG two weeks. And the culture came up negative (it was a cyst). But my husband felt like crap because he assumed he had brought it into our marriage. So, you may think your various conquests are things of the past, but imagine my surprise when we were dealing with something that my husband could have gotten 15 years ago (the herpes virus can remain dormant for a very long time).
I will tell you we were both raised in strict religious homes. Sex wasn’t discussed at all except to say it was a horrible, horrible sin. Imagine that :P Although my husband had some wild times, we are both pretty devout now. But we know sex is a beautiful thing, created by God for a married couple to enjoy and that is what we teach our children. So, my main basis for the argument against premarital sex is the Bible (as I believe it to be the Word of God. I’m not asking you to agree). But since we have experienced some things because of my husband sowing wild oats…well, I can tell you from a secular view, it just isn’t fair to risk contracting a disease and passing it on to your future spouse. Someone whom you will love and adore (as much as you adore your fiance Less. And that devotion grows exponentially throughout a marriage).
Less, I understand your argument about wanting to “test drive” your sex life with a future spouse…but, well, I believe you learn together. Sexual compatiblity may be immediate, or it may take some work (which in marriage can be a whole lotta fun;).
I’ll back up Valerie here. I can attest to the consequences of not waiting. My husband and I didn’t, our wedding night was boring. It was shame..lol.
But moreso, my husband had been with other girls before me. He was my one and only. He carried some “baggage” into our marriage. I will attest to it being emotionally difficult for me. Because here I was, experiencing things for the first time and he had BTDT with someone else (a few someone elses). You may argue that I wouldn’t feel that way if I had other conquests, but I don’t believe that. There were and have been many issues that have arisen because of my husband’s past. In fact, just a few years ago I was told by my OB/Gyn that I had herpes. They took a culture and sent me home to wait. It was a very LONG two weeks. And the culture came up negative (it was a cyst). But my husband felt like crap because he assumed he had brought it into our marriage. So, you may think your various conquests are things of the past, but imagine my surprise when we were dealing with something that my husband could have gotten 15 years ago (the herpes virus can remain dormant for a very long time).
I will tell you we were both raised in strict religious homes. Sex wasn’t discussed at all except to say it was a horrible, horrible sin. Imagine that :P Although my husband had some wild times, we are both pretty devout now. But we know sex is a beautiful thing, created by God for a married couple to enjoy and that is what we teach our children. So, my main basis for the argument against premarital sex is the Bible (as I believe it to be the Word of God. I’m not asking you to agree). But since we have experienced some things because of my husband sowing wild oats…well, I can tell you from a secular view, it just isn’t fair to risk contracting a disease and passing it on to your future spouse. Someone whom you will love and adore (as much as you adore your fiance Less. And that devotion grows exponentially throughout a marriage).
Less, I understand your argument about wanting to “test drive” your sex life with a future spouse…but, well, I believe you learn together. Sexual compatiblity may be immediate, or it may take some work (which in marriage can be a whole lotta fun;).
I’ll back up Valerie here. I can attest to the consequences of not waiting. My husband and I didn’t, our wedding night was boring. It was shame..lol.
But moreso, my husband had been with other girls before me. He was my one and only. He carried some “baggage” into our marriage. I will attest to it being emotionally difficult for me. Because here I was, experiencing things for the first time and he had BTDT with someone else (a few someone elses). You may argue that I wouldn’t feel that way if I had other conquests, but I don’t believe that. There were and have been many issues that have arisen because of my husband’s past. In fact, just a few years ago I was told by my OB/Gyn that I had herpes. They took a culture and sent me home to wait. It was a very LONG two weeks. And the culture came up negative (it was a cyst). But my husband felt like crap because he assumed he had brought it into our marriage. So, you may think your various conquests are things of the past, but imagine my surprise when we were dealing with something that my husband could have gotten 15 years ago (the herpes virus can remain dormant for a very long time).
I will tell you we were both raised in strict religious homes. Sex wasn’t discussed at all except to say it was a horrible, horrible sin. Imagine that :P Although my husband had some wild times, we are both pretty devout now. But we know sex is a beautiful thing, created by God for a married couple to enjoy and that is what we teach our children. So, my main basis for the argument against premarital sex is the Bible (as I believe it to be the Word of God. I’m not asking you to agree). But since we have experienced some things because of my husband sowing wild oats…well, I can tell you from a secular view, it just isn’t fair to risk contracting a disease and passing it on to your future spouse. Someone whom you will love and adore (as much as you adore your fiance Less. And that devotion grows exponentially throughout a marriage).
Less, I understand your argument about wanting to “test drive” your sex life with a future spouse…but, well, I believe you learn together. Sexual compatiblity may be immediate, or it may take some work (which in marriage can be a whole lotta fun;).
I’ll back up Valerie here. I can attest to the consequences of not waiting. My husband and I didn’t, our wedding night was boring. It was shame..lol.
But moreso, my husband had been with other girls before me. He was my one and only. He carried some “baggage” into our marriage. I will attest to it being emotionally difficult for me. Because here I was, experiencing things for the first time and he had BTDT with someone else (a few someone elses). You may argue that I wouldn’t feel that way if I had other conquests, but I don’t believe that. There were and have been many issues that have arisen because of my husband’s past. In fact, just a few years ago I was told by my OB/Gyn that I had herpes. They took a culture and sent me home to wait. It was a very LONG two weeks. And the culture came up negative (it was a cyst). But my husband felt like crap because he assumed he had brought it into our marriage. So, you may think your various conquests are things of the past, but imagine my surprise when we were dealing with something that my husband could have gotten 15 years ago (the herpes virus can remain dormant for a very long time).
I will tell you we were both raised in strict religious homes. Sex wasn’t discussed at all except to say it was a horrible, horrible sin. Imagine that :P Although my husband had some wild times, we are both pretty devout now. But we know sex is a beautiful thing, created by God for a married couple to enjoy and that is what we teach our children. So, my main basis for the argument against premarital sex is the Bible (as I believe it to be the Word of God. I’m not asking you to agree). But since we have experienced some things because of my husband sowing wild oats…well, I can tell you from a secular view, it just isn’t fair to risk contracting a disease and passing it on to your future spouse. Someone whom you will love and adore (as much as you adore your fiance Less. And that devotion grows exponentially throughout a marriage).
Less, I understand your argument about wanting to “test drive” your sex life with a future spouse…but, well, I believe you learn together. Sexual compatiblity may be immediate, or it may take some work (which in marriage can be a whole lotta fun;).
If you think the risks of prematial sex outweigh the benefits, you’re not understanding the benefits or the risks.
Although of course one should reduce the risks, they are there. Ackowledged. If you are smart and mature about it, the “emotional risk” is gone, you reduce the physical risk by picking good partners (avoid one nighters, etc) , and you take precautions on avoiding pregnancy. Find someone you care about and enjoy being with and have as much sex as you want.
The benefits are huge.
I understand your point, pb&j, and that’s why I’ve been tested for everything under the sun: I am completely clean, from HIV to herpes. My previous partners (it took a bit after we broke up, but all of my ex’s and I are pretty good friends now, and their new girlfriends and I talk as well) have also been tested, and each one of them have also reported back clean. It isn’t as though I’m choosing to be irresponsible: I’ve practiced safe sex, have no disesases, am vaccinated for HPV, and get all partners tested before I drive them. One of the main reasons why I believe in “test driving” a future spouse is that I am very, very, sexually open. I understand that not everyone else is: believe it or not, most males I know are very “vanilla,” as it were. I respect and there’s certainly nothing wrong with it, but I also respect myself: I would not be happy nor satisfied with a “normal” sex life. I would never want to put a future spouse in a situation where he would feel at all pressured to engage in activites with which he feels uncomfortable: for that reason, I prefer discovering their sexual limits before I make a permanent commitment.
Lauren, that’s great that you’re comfortable with how you believe. That’s why I put in that it must be frustrating for you even if you were comfortable, which you said you were, with you beliefs. I don’t know you, and would not presume to assume how comfortable you are with your choices: that’s something very personal, that I wouldn’t ask after. For that reason I put both senarios in the post.
Thank you for the studies: as a psychology minor I have access to quite a few databases of journals. Unfortunately the system which gives me said access is down for maintainence, so I’ll have to look later tonight. You’re right, though, that cohabitation prior to marriage has been shown to be assosicated with higher divorce rates. All I’m saying is that correlation does not necessarily equal causation: it could be that people who do not live together before marriage also do not believe in divorce. It could be that people who cohabitate before marriage find the transition from live-ins to newlyweds too difficult. I don’t know. Hopefully, your studies will shed some light on that.
Less:
I have to say I am with you for what you have said in all your posts, and very much agree.
Valerie, Lauren, pb&j, etc…:
I also very much see all your points of view as well.
I think that views on premarital sex, cohabition, etc… all depend on the person. I personally feel that past experiences make you who you are, and yes some of them you may not be awfully proud about, but I don’t neccesarily regret them, It was who I was at the time, and naturally I learned from them, and won’t repeat them. To me (everyone may not agree), past relationships also make you who you are, and they also lead to who you choose to be with down the road, you find certain things you liked about a past relationship and try to find them in the next, and the things that you didn’t like in past relationships you avoid in future ones. I mean, in most cases the first peron you are ever attracted to, or are in a relationship with, is not the person you are going to wind up marrying, of course there is always the slight, but very slight, chance that you might. I am not married, and have no plans on being married anytime soon, but I am in a relationship with someone, I am committed to him, and I have trust in him that he is committed to me as well, I have been tested, and he has as well, we use condoms, and I use birth control, so the way I see it we are being safe and responsible. Like I have said, I am not married and do not plan on being married anytime soon, but I do not feel as if I will regret anything from my past when I do get married. This relationship, and possible future relationships and future experiences will continue to shape the person I am, and will everntually lead me to whoever I wind up being married to.
LG,
You are actually right. And it becomes easy to become locked into who you were, unable to become someone new. Perhaps regret is too strong a word.
I too wish that I had waited. I couldn’t even tell you the name of or the particular circumstances of half of the people I slept with anymore. Eewww…
But I couldn’t be on here now talking to you as frankly and from the point of view as someone who “knows intimately” what you are all talking about.
So God in His wisdom, took my mistakes and turned them into good. The only shame comes when you know you are doing wrong, but are so mired down in the sin or the sinful way of looking at things that you can’t find your way back out. The real sin is in not trying to change.
This is why I love confession. Go in, tell the man what ya done, say yer sorry, get forgiven, move along. Done. No more. Over. Kaput!
Of course you have to actually be sorry and have a true desire to change your ways, but with a contrite heart and an honest confession, you can be sure that everything is forgiven and forgotten.
Start again.
How awesome is that? That is why Divine Mercy Sunday was so awesome. Not only were you forgiven all of your sins (through confession) but by saying the chaplet and going to mass on this day you were also forgiven ALL temporal punishment.
This is a very Catholic concept and maybe the other christians can give you a different way of looking at it, but whatever you do, it is a wonderful feeling to put the past behind you and begin anew.
mk
I find it interesting that the married memebers of the board wish they had waited, yet the unmarried claim they will never feel the same.
I will also throw my hat into the ring as one who wishes her past sexual conquests never took place.
Lauren, I hope I don’t ruin your “interesting” observation, but I’m married. Happily. I never once wished I had waited, nor does my wife wish she had waited. Nor do I even wish SHE had waited. Our incredible sex life (before and during marriage) is one of the reasons life is worth living.
I had wonderful sexual experiences with other people before I met my wife. One or two weren’t “great,” but even those were worth it.
I agree that sex with a life partner who you are sexually compatable with is a level above even the best physical only sex with someone else. I don’t think it’s a good idea to shun all the wonderful sexual and non-sexual experiences people can share just because you have not yet found your life partner. All of it is part of a full life. I have no regrets.
My boyfriend (soon to be fiance…my mom can’t keep a secret) and I are not abstinent. I was his first time but he was not mine. (I have only had sex with one other person, we dated 3 years first…)
It doesn’t bother him at all. He is strong enough to know that the past has nothing to do with what is now.
I feel like it just depends on the people
Doug,
Earlier someone (Valerie/Lauren?) mentioned that men feel differently, so it’s no surprise that you don’t regret your previous endeavors.
mk
MK, agreed, perhaps. I was replying to the married/unmarried comment by Lauren. I can’t speak for women in general, but I have discussed with my wife, and she feels about the same as me.
I do not dispute that some number of other women (and probably some men too) do regret sex before marriage. I’m just suggesting they try to “embrace” their past, and not feel guilty about some healthy sexuality. Or, live a life you’re comfortable with, so you have no regrets. I not sure I understand why people would feel that differently about these issues after they get married.
Doug,
I know what you’re saying. But let me see if I can explain. Not so you change your mind, but just so you can see that we’re not all prudes.
The women on this site that say they regret their earlier “affiliations” have more than “regret” in common. We are all also Christians. We have converted or reverted or heck, inverted…and given our lives over to serving God.
When you do this, everything is seen through different eyes. Things that didn’t bother you before now really get to you. I used to swear like a truck driver. The other day I had to repeat the “F” word on the witness stand in court and it almost gagged me. It just offends me deep down somewhere, when previously I wouldn’t have cared.
Pornography, immodest dress, drunkenness…all these things. I don’t just think they are wrong now…they really and truly repulse me. Why? I don’t know. I suppose it has something to do with grace and an easier path for God to get through to me.
So now when I sleep with my husband, it is different. Even than it was when we first got married. It’s so surreal. So beautiful now.
It’s a merging of our souls and not just an exchange of physical “pleasuring” (although that is a really great side effect!)
We’re both always aware that there are three of us in the bedroom. My Husband, Myself, and God.
And we know that each and every act might result in the creation of a new human being. Pretty incredible when you think of it. Sort of like never knowing when Christmas is going to come.
So when I look back at my “old” life and think of those shallow, meaningless, only for the good “feelings” times I spent with virtual strangers (even tho at the time, I thought that I was really “into” them) I really wish that I had skipped that part and gone for the real treasure.
It’s sort of like Cubic Zirconium compared to a Diamond. Unless you look really closely you probably couldn’t tell the difference. Probably couldn’t tell the difference unless you were “trained” to tell the difference. Even then you would need a jewelers loupe. My faith is like that jewelers loupe. It allows me to see things that other people can’t see. It allows me to tell the difference between the “real” thing and the “fake”…
Some people are perfectly content with Cubic Zirconium. I’m not one of them. I want the diamond. I demand the diamond. Because I’m worth it.
mk
MK, thanks for explaining.
i’m happy for you.
You’re happy, I’m happy. Life is good.
Lauren, as I previously stated: if I suddenly start regretting my past after marriage, I would consider it something wrong with me. I have never previously regreted my past, and can see no cirucmstances under which this would change.
Less, there are plenty of circumstances that could make one regret her past.
Perhaps you picked up a latent virus somewhere along the way that manifests itself at the time you wish to bear children. I can not tell you how many infertile women I’ve seen who lament greatly how their past has affected their present.
Perhaps you become deeply religious (I was UU going on Agnostic for awhile) and realize that your former life was lived in sin. This would surely spur lamentation.
Regretting your past is not a sign of something wrong, it can be a sign of growth.
I find it very disingenous that you claim that no circumstance would cause you regret in terms of sexuality.
Lauren,
I personally find it extremely rude that you insinuate that Less should have any regrets for her past.
I too have no regrets. I never will. That is just how I live my life, regretting the past does nothing for your future, learning from the past may help you though.
Mars, while claiming to have ‘no regrets’ is a nice talking point, it is impossible in the real world.
I do not know of a single person who would not regret an action that directly lead to the harm of another. i.e. I don’t know of anyone who would not regret shooting up with heroin, getting aids, and spreading it to an unsuspecting partner. Unless a person was completely devoid of concious, being the cause of another’s death would be regrettable.
Of course, for most people the threshold for regret is much lower than this. Most people regret drinking too much and waking up the next day with a hangover.
I agree that we shouldn’t live our lives regretting every drink or word, but there are certainly situations in everyones lives that are politely described as “regrettable”.
Lauren you talk like everyone who has sex before marriage gets an STD. That is simply not true.
i haven’t done anything I seriously regretted for more than a few hours, lets put it that way. If I drink to much I wake up and say oh crap shouldnt have done that, go back to sleep and wake up fine…no regrets.
Lauren, I’ve been tested as throughly as I can be: further, as I have no desire to have biological children, infertility is not a concern. The idea that sexuality is not the enemy, but rather something that is to be embraced, is an ideal I cherish. While I cannot say that I would never change it, I find it highly unlikely.
The way I decided to have premarital sex was questioning whether or not, under any circumstances, I could regert it. I simply couldn’t think of any. When I was being tested for STDs, when I had a pregancy scare, I was forced to confront head on whether or not I regret my choices. I didn’t. I still don’t. I highly doubt I ever will.
I understand that you doubt you will regret your decision. It is very possible that you will not. Would your feelings be different though if the results had come back positive?
Well if we look at the number of people having sex before marriage (90% was the number I saw posted earlier)
And look at the number of people with HPV-80% http://www.epigee.org/health/hpv_symptoms.html
We see how high the risk of contracting an std really is.
Lauren, I considered that. If the results had come back positive, I would not have regretted it. Life doesn’t end with STDs: with the exception of HIV/AIDS, you live on and survive and can still do whatever you did before.