The New Underground Women’s Movement
By HisMan (one totally sold out to Jesus Christ):
Since abortion makes no sense to any rationally thinking person, there has to be other reasons for pro-aborts’ “death grip” on this so-called “death right” .
It is no secret to me what abortion truly is and why I think it is used as a means to hold political power. I state it again as posted on previous threads as follows:
“You have to realize that pro-deathers are not driven by logic. They are driven by the lust for power, perhaps abortion followers without realizing it, but its leaders and initiators, guilty as hell.
They are no different than the poor man who fantasizes about taking the rich man’s watch without regard to how or why the rich man acquired the watch; while poor materially, they lack no prejudice. They feel totally justified in their position, not because of logic but in some sinister form of perverted self-righteousness not thoroughly arrived at, at having simply arrived. Perhaps this itself feeds the power demon inside them, at just being able to arrive, at joining up: “I’m in the club now and no one will every kick me out, not even me”.
They reject anyone or anything in authority that would tell them how to live including God Himself and it’s generally masked in the facade of women’s rights. Which when you analyze it, is a very parasitical way of thinking. I mean, they kill unborn baby woman too don’t they? How dare they use the issue of abortion to bolster their sense of self-hood. Again, the perverted, twisted and demented logic shows its ugly head from every angle of the looking glass. Ah, but they see in a mirror darkly? No, the light’s off.
So, when they acknowledge the horror of a baby cooking video, or talk about how bad kicking a dead baby in a bag is, or allowing a baby to die in a toilet in an abortion deathatorium despite the pleas of the mother for the baby’s life, they really are acknowledging the horror of abortion since to not do so would be illogical. What they fail to realize is that in doing so, they for a moment remove their masks, and their K-9 fangs show through the sheepskin, scaring even themselves. Does a werewolf know who he is?
So, I ask myself, if we disparage ourselves of the silliness and really take a deep look, what is abortion? Here’s what I, HisMan, think it is:
Abortion is an affront to the creative nature of God, it negates God as Creator.
Abortion denies the power of God to right a wrong, to show forth His glory, it negates God as redeemer.
Abortion makes that which is good, the birth of human life, into that which is evil, the death of human life, and then calls it good, the very definition of blasphemy.
Abortion negates the resurrection power of God as it takes flesh that is alive in it’s earthly abode (the womb) and kills it, while God takes that flesh which is dead in it’s earthly abode (the grave) and desires to make it alive.
Abortion’s desire is to take that which was composed from the chaotic array of elemental molecules into a symphony of life infused with an eternal soul, and turn it back to the entropy of randomness, chaos, nothingness, uselessness, decay, death.
Abortion is against all that is hopeful, all that requires faith for success; for it’s solution; annihilation, it’s goal; death, it’s dream; breaking God’s heart, it’s vision, satan’s ultimate power. Abortion is a counterfeit, for the clawprints of satan are everywhere to be found in its performance.
Abortion disguises hate as love, bondage as freedom, choice as maturity, sin as righteousness, political correctness as wisdom.
Abortion pits men against women, mothers against their children, fathers against God.
Yes, Abortion is satan’s feeble attempt at killing God himself, for Abortion is a metaphor for satan; it is his coat of arms, his family crest, his logo, his brand, it belongs to him……for he laughs at its willing proponents as they craft their own self-destruction, mantled in self-deception.”
As so truthfully stated by By Jennifer Roback Morse in her article, even women suffragists are beginning to see the light:
www.townhall.com/Columnists/JenniferRobackMorse
/2007/04/16/the_new_underground_womens_movement
“Abortion advocates never admit that women in crisis face an extremely lopsided “choice.” A woman can end her pregnancy at any time. The abortion clinic provides her with an immediate solution to her “problem.” She can walk in pregnant, and walk out not pregnant. Abortion counselors, assuming there are any, have no particular incentive to provide for her longer term needs, or to get to know her and her problems.
By contrast, the decision to carry a child to term has to be renewed on a daily basis. Throughout the pregnancy, the mother may have moments of fear or fatigue or indecision. Her boyfriend or her mother may be working on her to abort. If her conviction wavers, for even a single afternoon, she can get an abortion. Her child will be gone forever.
That is why workers in a crisis pregnancy center must have a whole different level of commitment than those in an abortion clinic. Pro-life counselors know perfectly well the client has a “choice,” other than returning to their center, so they have to make their services appealing. Pro-life counselors get to know the woman, her life, her problems, sometimes even her boyfriend or her mother. They help clients with housing, medical care, jobs, transportation and child care. The Real Alternatives program in Pennsylvania for instance, has a mandate to assist the woman for a year after her baby is born.
The modern feminist movement is a Marxist knock-off, committed to transforming class warfare into gender warfare. Under the guise of equalizing income for men and women, the feminist movement made in-roads into the power structures of America, inroads that would have been impossible any other way. Since babies account for so much of the gender difference in earnings, Girl Marxists need to neutralize the impact of babies: hence their commitment to all abortions, all the time.
The struggle feminism created is not now, nor has it ever been, solely between women and men. The struggle is between women who want their babies, and women who want something else more. The conflict is between women who value marriage, and Marxists who see marriage as another manifestation of class warfare.
Don’t be fooled by the rhetoric of the Feminist Establishment. You’ll never hear this from the Main Stream Media, but pro-life women are the real champions of the most vulnerable women’s interests. The Pro-life Movement is the New Women’s Movement.”
Rudy Guiliani, are you listening?
http://www.lifenews.com/nat3038.html
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Oh, beautiful, HisMan: a blog entirely without any legitimate sources, completely from a religious perspective.
There’s only one Source that counts for me.
Do you know of “others”?
Others that are maybe, you know, provable? A myriad, but something tells me that you wouldn’t look at them.
As for this quote:
The struggle is between women who want their babies, and women who want something else more. The conflict is between women who value marriage, and Marxists who see marriage as another manifestation of class warfare.
I’m curious: are you insinuating that all a woman should want is a marriage and babies?
His Man, at this point in my life, I DO want a career more than I want a baby. Does that make me SINFUL? The quote highlighted above by Less seems to suggest that you do.
Go ahead men, get your careers. Oh, silly women, of course you don’t want careers. Your potential is limited to being childbearers and mothers only. Of course we men know what’s best for you. So stay in the kitchen.
Why should I value marriage above a career I work DAMN hard for? Are you saying that my goals come secondary to that of a man’s because I should first and foremost want to be a mother? (Keep in mind, mothers ARE wonderful people and are probably the hardest workers EVER, and I would never degrade a woman for choosing to be a stay-at-home mom. My problem is when CERTAIN groups indoctrinate women to believe that their only value comes through being baby factories.)
Less,
I could care less if you get married or have children.
No I’m saying for a pro-deather, marriage and babies are not the issue.
The issue is about power and the question, who’s gonna hold sway in my life; God, the church, my marriage, my spouse, me?
The pro-death stance is no-one tells me what to do even if it causes the death of an innocent child in the womb.
If God were in control of one’s life, there would be no thought of ever aborting an innocent child in the womb.
Obvioulsy, pro-deathers are controlled by self and self-alone.
Hm, so you believe I shouldn’t have control of myself, that I should simply allow everyone and everything else to control me?
This was a very well written post, Hisman. Love the Guilani bit at the end! haha
I am glad to see you back .. hope you had a good trip! :)
Alyssa,
Ludicrous.
My wife is mother to five children (and I would say an astounding success at the most difficult, challenging, and rewarding jobs on the planet).
She has been a successful research coordinator at the Mayo Clinic. Left that to design our new house.
The difference is, she did it all, and I mean all, on God’s timetable not her own, and she is one of the happiesnt people on the face of the earth.
Most pro-choicers are used to believing lies.
Read Proverbs 31 please.
His Man, if you say it’s about power, then explain the highlighted quote from above. What exactly did you mean by it? Because I’m only gleaning one meaning.
I DO want something more than a baby. It’s called a comfortable life and a career…and then, after that, when I can provide, maybe a baby. Not first. Never first. I have the best priorities for me. Not what you think the Bible says should be my priorities.
How do you know that this ISN’T God’s timetable for me? Oh, that’s right…God wants babies first, my desires later.
Less,
I believe the life God planned for you before you were born is beyond your wildest dreams.
I know you will never get there believing the lies of pro-aborts and man-hater feminists.
And I don’t think anyone should give control of themselves over to anyone who doens’t love them unconditinally.
God loves us without restraint and He can be totally trusted. So, when He teaches me in His Word to choose life, I take that literally. Might not be the easiast and simplest choice of the moment, but if He can be trusted, I can trust the outcome. That’s why abortion is never the answer, ever.
His Man,
God may love us but he isn’t always “nice,” either.
Alyssa — I am totally with you. I’m a Christian, and the way I see it is that if my husband and I were to have a baby right now, that would be great in God’s eyes. Or, if as planned, I delay children until later that would be great in God’s eyes too. I think there are an infinite number of life paths that I could take, and a lot of times one is NOT better than the other. As long as I follow the Ten Commandments, etc., and try to serve God in wherever life takes me then I think God will be pleased. God wouldn’t have minded if I had chosen a different major, a different school, moved to a different city, etc. That’s my take on it! There is a huge range of possibilities that fall into God’s will and it’s ridiculous to assume that our personal choices don’t affect our life plans.
Alyssa,
If you don’t want babies first, great.
But don’t have sex until and when you are ready to accept the responsibility of having a baby.
If you are not mature enough to see that, then you are probably not mature enough to understand sex.
You are only looking at the superficial aspect of the act. The fact is that sex leads to pregnancy.
Not only does it, but it is meant to lead to pregnancy.
And all the magic pills, and copper coils, and protective balloons, and abortionists in the world cannot change that simple reality.
Pregnancy is a natural consequence of having sexual relations.
That’s it. It’s so simple.
But when you stamp your feet and say nobody is going to tell ME what to do, the natural consequence, unfortunately, is that babies die.
That’s it. It’s so simple.
It’s so fundamentally human. It is what separates us from animals. It is what makes us special. The fact that we accept responsibility for our actions. The fact that we have sympathy and empathy. The fact that we don’t just take and take and take.
This is one of those nights when the way you girls, so beautiful, so young and so full of promise, talk that I just want to cry…
You must feel so empty inside. Always trying to fill yourself up with whatever feels good right away. Never willing to wait for the stuff that lasts.
Hollow. Sad. So very sad…
mk
Alyssa,
Since abortion is never the right thing to do, just as murdering someone would never be the right thing to do, the right to murder a baby in the womb can never be the fundamental argument for women’s rights.
A women’s “right to choose” is simply saying it is more important for a woman to be able to murder (an unborn child) than it is for that right to be forsaken. No such right exists and therefore it is a false right, it doens’t exist. It’s a fake, a straw man, a facade, a phantom….and a whole movement is built around it.
How can a movement that bases itself on being able to kill the very people it purports to champion survive? The very premise is totally illogical.
It’s doomed to failure and women are beginning to realize it.
I don
I’m not telling anyone on this blog that they ought to become mothers. Not everyone is cut out to be a mother. As a matter of fact,it might be for the best that some women didn’t. However,that doesn’t give any of us the right to take a human life. Abortion is the destruction of a human life! Once that life is in the womb of the woman, nobody should ever tamper with it!
MK,
Again, even if I was to abstain until marriage, who’s to tell me I’m wrong to want to remain childless for a few years to enjoy married life with my husband, and THEN have children? NFP cannot work for me, and I looked into that Naprotechnology thing. NO explanations for how to deal with debilitating dysmenorrhea. I don’t want to put my faith in something that hasn’t even been put into the mainstream yet…something that has been proven to work with a pretty good failsafe rate (yes, I know, abstinence is the only 100% safe thing…), is many forms of birth control. BC is better than nothing. And while you may decry that the 3rd “theoretical” but not PROVEN function of birth control is “killing a baby”, I cannot equate a ball of 50 undifferentiated cells to that of a crying infant.
In that regards, if you had time to save one crying child OR a petri dish full of 50 embryos, which would you save? I have no doubts in my mind which one I would go for.
Sorry guys, had to step away for a second.
Hi Pretty In Pink:
What do you mena God isn’t nice?
Did He ever hurt you?
Sure it wasn’t someone else?
I mean, when my parents died when I was younger I was real mad at God until I understood the big picture.
Sometimes, I don’t like it when I get sick and other bad things happen or things don;t go my way. I know that someday, all will be made well.
For me, God is really nice, just sometimes we don’t always know what His plans for us are. That’s why trusting Him makes life so much easier instead of alway fighting Him.
Its people like hisman that have made me lose my faith and why I think organized religion is crap. I wish someone like Hisman could back his theories up with other evidence other than “the bible” I have his question for you, you state “I believe the life God planned for you before you were born is beyond your wildest dreams.” if “god knows everything” wouldn’t he know that this person was going to get an abortion later in their life? Also why do people who commit sucide “go to hell” if god has a plan for you, wouldn’t he plan for you to die this way. You’re argument would be “freewill” God lets you choose, so does god know or not know what i’m going to do? Mmm…
So if a family, a man and a women, is very poor and can not afford a baby ever… does that mean they can never have sex… and if they do what did you say MK “If you are not mature enough to see that, then you are probably not mature enough to understand sex.”
Most people reading this blog have to wonder if you are the most qualified person to judge what is rational and what is not, HisMan/
“Since abortion is never the right thing to do…”
See, I find that even the majority of the pro-life movement disagrees with you on that “never” bit. Most agree that if a woman’s life is in danger, abortion is perfectly acceptable.
Ilana you silly head… if someone thinks abortion is right in any instance it makes you a “death killer”
“What do you mena God isn’t nice?
Did He ever hurt you?”
I’ve had my share. Just like everyone else, I suppose. But God is not nice. Look at the world. If you tell us to just trust God for everything, then the world’s ills are from God. They may be for a reason but it isn’t a nice thing to do. For example, God may have his reasons for Katrina, doesn’t mean He was nice. Right?
Hisman… I am a Christian, studying to hopefully become a Youth Minister someday… I am also pro-choice… And I don’t think that Being a Christian and being pro-CHOICE have to be mutually exclusive… I know you disagree with me and that’s fine… You have the right to… But I don’t think calling people inflammatory names and ASSUMING you know why everyone thinks the way they do, is ok in God’s sight either…
It is people like HisMan that turn me off Christianity for good. I hope you’re proud of yourself for that.
Mr. Giuliani would like me to tell His Man to kindly consider adopting a new hobby. There are much more important issues to talk about.
Please Ilana… Don’t judge us all by the hatred he spews
I wonder if His Man has any arguments for those of us who do not believe in God.
Its people like emily and make me realize perhaps i shouldn’t lose faith in religion.
Of course not, Emily. I just wish there weren’t people who are so hateful and disgusting (like you, HisMan) that it makes me turn away from Christianity.
I’ve just lost all respect for Rudy.
:-) Thank you Jana… I try to show everyone a positive and loving side to Christianity… I know God would rather I win people to him with love, not hatred…
I’m sorry emily but i agree with Ilana… People like hisman have made me turn away from God.
Rudy doesn’t miss it at all, Momof3.
Trust me when I say I can understand why… You have no idea how much it sickens me and makes me ashamed that he “represents” my religion… It’s horrible
If you guys on the pro-choice side don’t believe in the Bible, then what do you base anything on? I am not trying to be “funny”. I really would like to know.
I DO believe in the bible…
Momof3, I personally base my opinions on facts that can be proven.
Hence the reason I myself would not get an abortion… But I realize I have NO RIGHT to decide that for anyone else lawfully
Jana,
Yes God did know that a person would get an abortion later in life, however, this was not His plan. I never said people that commit suicide go to hell. God’s plan is perfect and flawless in every way; it’s a person’s choice that corrupts His perfect plan.
Free will? God lays out the choices, we make the choice. He wants us to choose life and not death.
Yes God knows what you’re going to do and the outcome. But you don’t kow the outcome. That’s what takes faith, believing that His plan will work for good for those that love Him and are called according to His purposes.
Yay for Emily! Christians like you make me happy. ^^
:-D Thank you Less… I try! lol
How do you get around the thou shalt not kill part?
I personally don’t kill… I think the decision of abortion is up to every woman and between her and any God she believes in… It’s not my business… And I don’t feel anyone should be denied the choice because of beliefs I have that not everyone shares…
I look around me, I see the way I would like to be treated and try to treat everyone and everything around me the same way. I find that I and my friends who believe this way are kinder, more caring, more humanistically inclined, and way more compassionate than those of my friends and acquaintances who “follow the Bible.”
Emily:
Emily, I honestly don’t understand your belief.
Please tell me what you believe about abortion.
“Momof3, I personally base my opinions on facts that can be proven.”
ditto
Hisman- I applogize i just assumed you’d think that suicide sends you to hell… thats what other christians have claimed.. (friends of mine).
You also are contradicting yourself. If God knows what choice we will choose how can he “get mad”
Jesus actually did say in the New Testament to treat others as you would like to be treated… It makes me sad that alot of Christians don’t follow this advice…
It says “Thou shalt not murder.”
And being that murder is a very specific thing, and abortion doesn’t fall under that very specific definition, sorry, abortion is perfectly fine.
I believe abortion is a horrible thing… I wish it were not practiced as much as it is… But I think the way to get rid of abortion is NOT by outlawing it, but by educating young people about the risks of sex and ways to protect themselves… Abstinence is the BEST way… But it has been PROVEN that abstinence ONLY education ISN’T working… And until we eliminate the NEED for abortion, it won’t go away
Abortion is murder. What did an unborn child ever do to deserve having his limbs ripped off or his skull punctured?
If abortion is murder, you are a cranberry.
Jana, if you turned away from God based on what a person, or a group of people did, then you never were close to God in the first place, and you just use this person/people as an excuse to stay away from God.
You can’t turn away from someone you never knew. You can find more reasons or excuses to stay away, but you can’t “turn” away.
Do you see what I’m saying?
Emily,
Looking back, I wouldn’t have wanted to be aborted, would you have? So how does Jesus’ admonition to treat others as yourself apply here?
What about “the least of these” Jesus talks about?
I want to know what you believe.
I was christian, went to church on sundays and all that and then my boyfriend died.
Now I cannot believe that God would let someone like him die. I cannot believe that there is a god
David was a wonderful person and his heart stopped while he was playing soccer with some friends. He had had heart problems as a baby but there was nothing wrong with him anymore.
If I had been aborted, I wouldn’t have an opinion on abortion either way… I do KNOW I wouldn’t have wanted my mother to have been FORCED to carry me against her will
It sounds to me like you guys make up your own rules.
“Abortion is murder.”
Not as we speak. Murder is a legal construct used to define a killing that is outlawed by a society or system of jurisprudence. Killing itself is not murder. There is no such natural concept. The idea of “murder” is man-made.
Momof3: “Abortion is murder.What did an unborn child ever do to deserve having his limbs ripped off or his skull punctured?”
Abortion is not legally considered murder because it is not killing a PERSON. A zygote/embryo/fetus is ALIVE and HUMAN along with sperm cells, skin cells and eggs. However it does not have the rights of a person.
HisMan, when you say you wouldn’t want to be aborted…well you wouldnt know either way if you were.
My mom was 18 when she got pregnant with me. She considered abortion, but she decided that my father and both their families would provide the support she needed. I am thankful she had the choice. I know now that I am the baby she WANTED to have, not just the baby she had to have because she had no other choice.
My new screen name.
Bethany-
How dare you tell me that I was never close to God? How dare you? You know nothing about me and frankly I find your comment very rude. It wasn’t just people that have made me lose faith in God, there are other factors as well. I went to college and become educated and started to have new beliefs.. then people like hisman told me my beliefs were wrong and against “Christianity” I was going to hell.
Kim and Lando,with all due respect….BullS—!
Actually, it sounds to me like YOU made up YOUR own rules. The laws I follow because of the country I live in tell me that murder is the malicious, illegal, and premediated killing of a person. You don’t like the rules? Go somewhere else.
Jana… I’m sorry about that and those people were HORRIBLE to say such things to you, or to assume they had the right to judge you…
I think it’s terrible that some of my fellow Christians don’t realize that we CANNOT force our beliefs and morals on others… MORALITY CANNOT BE LEGISLATED!!!
Jana, you get used to all the rudeness. I, personally, have been told that I worship a God of sex, am disgusting and ignorant, and am going to hell and dragging everyone with me. So. :P
Why do we lock people up for murder? Those are the rules.
“Kim and Lando,with all due respect….BullS—!”
Killing and death are part of this existence and the cycle of life itself. Human societies have decided what kinds of killing are acceptable, based on their environment and the resulting worldview
As of now, our society does not hold abortion to be an unlawful form of killing. Therefore, the legal construct of murder does not apply here. I simply believe it should stay that way.
If you have an opposing view as to why you think abortion should constitute murder, please relate it. Replying with only a summary swear does not help anyone.
I am a christian. I love God with all my heart and desire nothing more than to please him.
I am pro-choice! Gods greatest gift to humanity was the gift of choice and God is always with me. I feel as if I am living a life which pleases him. For you to insinuate that your truth is the absolute truth is disgusting. God doesnt teach the kind of judgement you preach, he teaches love.
Yes… And legally abortion does not qualify as murder…
“Kim and Lando,with all due respect…BullS—!”
Very Well, give us some info that contradicts us.
*crosses fingers* (Please not abortionno.com, please not abortionno.com)
How about some love for unborn children? Where is that love?
ErinJane… I just want to say… Thank God for sending you here to help me be the voice for rational Christians :-D
Yeah. We lock people up for MURDER, the illegal, malicious, and premediated killing of another person.
Legally no,morally yes!!!Don’t keep lying to yourselves. The word legal does not make it okay!
“How about some love for unborn children? Where is that love?”
It’s not going anywhere. But you cannot force someone to love. It must be given voluntary. That is why pregnancy and childbirth are such amazing acts. The mother chooses to sacrifice herself for her children. Forcing them to gestate only perverts and nullifies any form of “love.”
Yes but we CANNOT FORCE our morality on people who DO NOT SHARE our beliefs… We just cannot…
Mars,
I am sorry for your loss. It must hurt terribly.
What made David’s death turn you away from God? Seems to me that God would be the only One that could provide any comfort in this situation.
I’m only human and there’s nothing that I can do or say to make the hurt go away except to say I know there is a way out.
From my pain experiences, if you don’t deal with an issue, the hole in your heart only grows deeper. The solution is only found in God’s love. You already have total access to His love, you don’t have to do anything to get it, it’s a done deal.
Abortion IS very premeditated.
“The word legal does not make it okay!”
Maybe. But that is for each individual and her God/personal philosophy to decide.
Don’t keep lying to yourself that your morality is everyone’s morality. I think what you’re trying to do is completely immoral: force your morals onto everyone around you. But do I stop you from doing it? No.
Exactly… I would much rather my mother carry me out of love than because she was FORCED to
I think it’s terrible that some of my fellow Christians don’t realize that we CANNOT force our beliefs and morals on others… MORALITY CANNOT BE LEGISLATED!!!
“Have you ever heard the claim that “morality can’t be legislated”? I have heard it too many times, and it has often been said by religious people. I’m afraid the majority of people in this country have bought into this lie, which has been propagated by the liberal left.
Those who argue in favor of abortion often insist that morality should not be legislated. They say that the pro-life movement should not force their morals on society. In fact, the Supreme Court seems to have bought into the lie. In Planned Parenthood v. Casey, the Supreme Court said,
Some of us as individuals find abortion offensive to our most basic principles of morality, but that cannot control our decision. Our obligation is to define the liberty of all, not to mandate our own moral code…at the heart of liberty is the right to define one’s own concept of existence, of meaning, of the universe, and of the mystery of human life.
But to say that morality cannot be legislated is to betray an ignorance of what laws really are. All laws declare one behavior right and one behavior wrong, which is the very definition of morality. When people say morality cannot be legislated, they should be saying that legislation cannot change hearts. While this is true, changing hearts is not the purpose of laws. Regardless of one’s personal convictions, laws encourage a certain behavior by citizens. Legislation cannot be divorced from morality. All laws mandate morality. The question is not then can we legislate morality, but whose morality do we legislate?1
The Supreme Court claimed that they were not legislating morality in their decision. By making abortion legal (overstepping its authority, I might add), however, the Supreme Court declared that abortion was right. This is a moral statement, a legislation of morality. Some misguided individuals will argue that legalizing abortion is the government’s way of remaining neutral on the issue–they aren’t forcing anyone to have an abortion, nor saying that it is a good thing; they’re just giving women the option. The same argument is used for prostitution and the use of narcotics. Legalization of an activity, however, is an endorsement of that activity. If it were not, why do we need laws in the first place? Why doesn’t the government remain neutral on the issue of rape? The government doesn’t have to force men to rape women or say that rape is a good thing, but shouldn’t they give men that option? Do I hear some pro-choicers out there saying that rape is wrong, and it should be illegal? Who are you to force your morals on society? Morality shouldn’t be legislated!”
Read the rest here
Yes, honey, abortion is premediated. Is it malicious? No. Is it illegal? No. Until abortion is illegal, malicious, and premediated, it still is not murder. Sorry.
Emily,
You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.
“Abortion IS very premeditated.”
But is it unlawful…no.
Is it malicious…Definitely not. Compare the motives and attitudes of a pre-abortion woman with any would-be murderer. There are no similarities there.
You CAN control your desision when it comes to abortion… DON’T GET ONE
Tsk tsk, Bethany, using editorials as sources again?
“Abortion IS very premeditated.”
But is it unlawful…no.
Neither was slavery back in it’s day, but that fact didn’t take the wrong away.
I DO know the truth… And it HAS set me free… But I can’t force others to believe in God… All I can do is tell them what I believe and live as a good example for them so that they can see how God effects my life…
Slaves were also born citizens, which means they were protected under the constitution… Constitutional protection requires a person be BORN OR NATURALIZED… A fetus is neither
“By making abortion legal (overstepping its authority, I might add)”
You can certainly have your opinion…
“the Supreme Court declared that abortion was right.”
No they did not. They held to be legally permissible. Whether it is “right” or not is up to each individual. The government is not neutral, it is holding up the rights of its citizens to control their reproductive destiny, and through that, their bodies and lives.
HisMan:
What about david’s death made me turn away from god? Because no loving god would let such a terrible thing happen to a good person, to his mother who has no one else, and to his friends.
You know what comforted me during this time? My friends. They were amazing. And counseling. It has done wonderful things for me.
Before david died I was already starting to think that there was probably no God, that compounded those beliefs
“Neither was slavery back in it’s day, but that fact didn’t take the wrong away.”
I was about to argue that forcing a woman to donate her body to a fetus is a form of slavery, as per the 13th and 14th Amendments…interesting.
Abortion is premeditated murder.It is violent to the unborn child.It is wrong.Who is your God that says killing is okay?
Mars- I am so sorry about David. I can not even comprehend what I would feel if my boyfriend, the man i want to marry, were to die…
IT IS NOT MURDER… MURDER is Illegal… Abortion is legal… Therefore, legally, abortion is NOT murder…
Back to my original screen name
“Abortion is premeditated murder.It is violent to the unborn child.”
We have already analyzed the definition of murder as a legal construct in which abortion does not fit. You are free to have your own opinion on the issue. You are not forced to have an abortion, or even like the concept.
If all violent killings were outlawed, we would not have a military.
Honey, you’re still missing the other two parts: illegal and malicious. If it’s premediated, legal, and not malicious, it isn’t murder. Sorry you don’t like the definitions of words. That’s very sad for you.
And my God who allows killing is the same as your God. Last I checked, even Christians killed in the name of God.
Mars… I am SO sorry to hear about your boyfriend… I’m glad you had great friends around you to help you… That is a horrible thing for anyone to have to deal with… I went through a similar crisis of faith (where I lost my belief in God) after my brother and grandfather died… I sympathize… I hope your friends continue to support you!
Emily,This is how I CHOOSE to word it.CHOICE,remember? Abortion is murder.I’m sorry if this offends you.You’ll get over it.
Emily,
Please don’t forget that Jesus says that we are the light of the world.
Who then, if not believers, would counter the darkness?
You would never have us say anything that would counter popular opinion, why? Because we might offend someone?
The Gospel or “Good News” is inherently offensive, Emily, becasue it tells people they are lost, they need a Savior, it is Christ, and to not beleive the message means etermal separation from God.
Did they crucify that nice guy Jesus you know or the One talked about in the Bible.
Sorry Emily, abortion is always wrong for it counters God’s intent.
But it’s NOT murder if you follow the definition of the word… I’m a former English major and people butchering the English language does offend me, yes…
“This is how I CHOOSE to word it.CHOICE,remember? Abortion is murder.”
That’s fine. Just know that it is not legally correct, which renders your view to a personal one. You are certainly entitled to it.
If I may be so bold, I would reword your statement to “I think abortion should be considered murder.”
Well then, momof3, you’re CHOOSING to be ignorant.
PS If abortion is not murder than what is it?
You can call it whatever you want. But the fact of the matter is, if you’re speaking in English, you have to use the English language within its parameters: definitions, grammar, syntax, and so on. If you attempt to use one word to define something that it doesn’t define, you’re not operating within the parameters of the English language, and no one takes you seriously. Rather, they think you’re silly and amusing for your mis-speak.
Slaves were also born citizens, which means they were protected under the constitution… Constitutional protection requires a person be BORN OR NATURALIZED… A fetus is neither
so? They weren’t “persons” by definiton of the law. They had no legal rights.
It’s evicting a biological freeloader which infringes on the woman’s womb. You can’t deny that any part of that statement is true.
“Sorry Emily, abortion is always wrong for it counters God’s intent.”
There are a lot of directions I can go with this…but who knows God’s intent? And why should that translate into the law of a secular nation?
I never ONCE said that I wouldn’t go against popular opinion… I do in a great many things… I just don’t think it is right to take that choice away from women… I don’t think ANYONE should get abortions and you will NEVER hear me advocate it… All I advocate is not pushing my morals on others and allowing choice… I spread the Good Word to everyone I know… My boyfriend HATES listening to me badger him about going to Church… Don’t you DARE question my faith
It’s abortion… That’s what it is… It’s the expulsion of a fetus from an unwilling womb… I’d even allow the killing of a fetus… But NOT murder
Killing. Just like when you scratch your arm and kill a few skin cells, just like when someone kills a cow to make it into hamburger and shoes. Killing. Not all killing is murder.
Ilana,I am calling it both what I want as well as what it is.MURDER.Blood/death=murder.
“They weren’t “persons” by definiton of the law. ”
Actually, they were.
In “An Inquiry Into the Law of Negro Slavery” (1858), Thomas R.R. Cobb states that “We recognize in the Negro a man, endowed with reason, will, and accountability…”
Indeed, nearly every state slave code contained provisions for providing for the basic rights and well-being of slaves.
That was the fatal paradox of slaver, really. No one could ever reconcile keeping a living, independent person in bondage to another.
I was seriously going to try and avoid this blog from now on, since all it does is incense me and whittle away at my faith in the rational capacity our species and the value of our society, but I couldn’t help myself. So, I might as well put my 2 cents in.
HisMan, you’ve written a nice long post, and your use of rhetoric is absolutely amazing. But there is not one argument in your entire post! You’ve given us nothing more than a list of unsubstatiated claims. (Well, I suppose we could consider the numerous ad hominem attacks arguments, but they’re fallacious, so why bother?). Have you ever considered being a sophist? I think you’ve got a natural talent for it.
I’m not sure I understand this whole idea that the pro-choice movement is all about power. Unless by ‘power’ you mean ‘rights’. Do I have a right to my beliefs and a right to express them? Yes. Do I have a right to practice the religion of my choosing (or, in my case, no religion)? Yes. Do I have a right to live my life as I see fit as long as it does not infringe on the rights of others? Yes. Do I have a right of autonomy over my own body? Yes. How is it that the first two of these are about rights and the last two are, according to you, about power? Or are you going to say that those who support free speech and free exercise of religion are horrible power freaks? If that’s the case, I really hope, for the sake of your own consistency, that you’re not one of those crazy people who thinks that you have a right over your own property. Abhorrent power mongerers who think they can set use privileges on what they own… sheesh.
Haha, then every period you have is murder… Blood and death of an unfertilized egg. Ridiculous. Try again, Momof3.
“… abortion is always wrong…”
Once again, HisMan, the majority of the pro-life movement disagrees with you. They find abortion to be berfectly acceptable if the woman’s life is in immediate danger from the pregnancy, or if the fetus is entirely incompatible with life due to a chromosomal abnormality.
“Blood/death=murder.”
A lioness killing an antelope for food is committing murder?
By calling in air support to help out the Army grunts in my convoy when they come under attack, am I an accomplice in murder?
so if blood/killing=murder… Then if a man attacks me on the street at night and I defend myself, is that murder?
Ilana: there are three reasons for war, money, power and RELIGION….
I think that’s sad… I will DIE for my religion… But I would NEVER kill for it…
Lol, so when you menstruate, you’re committing murder? You must hate yourself!
Don’t like my explaination? This is how I feel about you guys when you start that body autonomy,feti zygote,personhood arguement.STUPID CRAP!! It’s so dumb!
Well we kinda feel the same way about you so…
Menstruation is not pregnancy.The lining of the uterus sheds when the egg is not fertilized.
momof3…
the truth can hurt sometimes.
Except I’d never say you were dumb or that your reasons for believing what you do are dumb… I think you are 100% entitled to your opinion… No matter how much it would hurt women across the country…
I have to wonder why you’re so angry, Momof3. Is it because you’re questioning what you’re saying and finding yourself lacking? Is it because you can’t believe someone would disagree with you and are astounded that we’re not automatically falling to our knees and dismissing our previous beliefs at your insistence that abortion is murder? Anger is weakness.
Not it sheds it’s lining when there is no IMPLANTATION… Doesn’t mean a fertilization didn’t happen… MANY periods are fertilized eggs being expelled because they failed to implant…
“Don’t like my explaination? This is how I feel about you guys when you start that body autonomy,feti zygote,personhood arguement.STUPID CRAP!! It’s so dumb!”
*eyebrow raise*
If I were in a courtroom, this is the moment I say, “Your honor, we rest our case.”
That’s fine.Please spare me that dumb crap argument you all use. Thanks.
“dumb crap argument ”
I am interested to know why you consider it as such.
*lol* Landon… I know I said it on Facebook… But I wanna say it here too for the record… I love you!
Well then it’s God’s will.I didn’t run to the ab clinic to kill anyone.
You said it yourself, Momof3. Murder is blood and death. Well, menstruation is blood and death. So, by your own definition, menstruation is murder.
*lol* Oh lord… Talk about dumb crap…
Lando the Loser is a better name for you.
I HAD respect for momof3… That has now gone out the window… *shakes head*
Don’t go there girls.Now you both sound childish.
Fine. We won’t talk about bodily integrity, that “dumb crap argument” we all use, if you don’t use your dumb crap argument that abortion is murder, because that is pure dumb crap.
Isn’t it sad, Emily? It happens pretty quickly.
This coming from the woman who just called someone a “loser”… Riiiiight..
Emily,I don’t ever remember even talking to you before.
MOM: please spare us the dumb crap god argument you use then…
“Lando the Loser is a better name for you.”
Perhaps, but name calling gets you know where, and serves only to damage your credibility when talking about our “dumb arguments.”
My screen name is irrelevant.
The only one who is childish is the one who refuses to accept definitions, the one who gets angry at an argument she dislikes, and the one who tells her opponents that their morals aren’t good enough.
Wait… I think that just described you.
Lando the Loser is a better name for you.
that was kinda rude
*shakes head* I just… Want one person worth of respect here (pro-life)… It’s hard to argue for our side when everyone on the other side is… for lack of better terms… completely incompetent…
Wait, did she REALLY say WE’RE childish, then call Lando a loser? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Oh my goodness, Momof3, do you TRY to be this funny?
And I just committed a mortal grammatical sin there.
I’ve read posts here before… This is only the second time I’ve gotten involved in a discussion
Oh,like I would lose sleep over people that defend baby killing and baby killers. You guys are a screen. I don’t even know any of you on a personal level. I think a lot of you here are fakes!
Yes Ilana, she did… I mean… But of course, WE are the childish ones…
Emily, I’m with you. I have to wonder how the leaders of the pro-life movement are okay with their followers being completely incompetent.
I wouldn’t mind getting to know anyone on here on a personal level… I love to make new friends and I have no problem having friends that disagree with me about things…
And i’m sure many of “us” think many of “you” are fakes? so whats your point?
“I think a lot of you here are fakes!”
In what way?
*Pinches self*
I’m pretty sure I am me.
I know… They don’t eve know basic medical & legal FACTS… It’s just mind-numbing…
Well,I am calm as can be.I was looking back on the posts.Funny.You guys are all worked up.Never heard of most of you.
Fakes of what? Momof3, it’s very sad that now you’re resorting to personal attacks when you know your other arguments are failing. I feel very badly for you.
It is funny how momof3 is incredibly childish with her name calling and yet she has the audacity to call US childish.
wow…can anyone say HYPOCRITE
Lando-I just don’t like you.
Okay people, let’s not stoop to her level.
It is funny how momof3 is incredibly childish with her name calling and yet she has the audacity to call US childish.
wow…can anyone say HYPOCRITE
The only one I see getting worked up is the one calling her opponents losers and fakes.
What about you guys?
You sure didn’t seem “calm as can be” While using words like “crap”, “stupid”, and “loser”
Okay,then someone please explain to me why abortion is NOT murder?
The only one I see getting worked up is the one calling her opponents losers and fakes.
What about you guys?
I’m calm… Laughing my butt off… But calm…
“Lando-I just don’t like you.”
That’s fine. I didn’t expect to be greeted warmly here.
We’ve already explained it to you. If you’re having trouble reading, or even easier, scrolling up, that’s not our problem.
How do you feel about women that have multiple abortions? Do you accept this?
I don’t think any of us expected warm welcomes here…
sorry dont know why that double posted
Depends on the circumstances… I wish there were no need for ANY abortions… But I don’t presume to know any other woman’s situation…
You haven’t explained anything.
Momof3
whats the point? This has already been done and you disagree… so why bother?
Momof3, do you automatically dislike everyone who disagrees with you? That is a very sad state of being.
I don’t think that women who get multiple abortions are “right” but I think they should have the choice, and I do not have the RIGHT to tell a woman what to do with her life
I am the 17 year old daughter of Hisman. I have been very blessed to live in a loving Christian home my entire life.
Emily, you said you are wanting to be a youth pastor. Pretend I was coming to you to you asking for advice (and these issues will definitely come up in this day and age). I have had sex with my boyfriend and now I’m pregnant. I ask you straight up, (as a helpless teenager scared to go to tell my parents) “Is it okay if I get an abortion?” What are you going to tell me? I have been taught my entire life that abortion is wrong and I know that if my parents find out it will seem like the whole world is against me. I would be looking for hope. Is there hope found in an abortion? Your answer to me is, “It’s your choice.” So say I made the decision to go through with this abortion based on your advice. Do you really think I would have thought I made the right choice? I know I wouldn’t have.
Momof3, I can scroll up and copy and paste multiple posts telling you exactly what murder is and exactly why abortion doesn’t fall under that definition, but that would be a waste of your time and mine. You could very much more easily scroll up and re-read them.
*lol* Is there anything I could say that will change your mind and make you realize that you have no RIGHT to take choice away from anyone? I doubt it… So why bother…
Abortion is murder and abortionists are murderers.How do you feel about a baby that has his skull punctured and his brains sucked out because his mother didn’t want him? Is this not killing?
If you are hisman daughter then you wouldn’t be having sex because you “daddy” has brainwashed you that sex is evil and wrong.
“How do you feel about women that have multiple abortions? Do you accept this?”
She has the right to do that. I would have to see each individual circumstance to know if I personally thought each reason was “vaild.”
Of course, my personal opinions don’t really matter in the long run. She has the choice to do that.
I would have told you that I don’t think abortion is the right answer, but that I cannot tell you not to… I would tell you that you should talk to your parents (because being your youth minister I would know your parents) and I would offer to help you find resources to help you and your family through this hard time…
I would NEVER advocate abortion and I would never just tell you to “choose on your own”
Why do you people even bother coming to a pro-life site?
Momof3, you’re referring to the intact dilation and extraction procedure, which is done very rarely, and only on late-term abortions in extreme medical conditions. If you are having a late term abortion, chances are, you wanted a child very much. I really don’t know what you’re talking about.
Careful emily, they are going to tell you that you are advocating it because you support choice.
I would try to give you as much access to places where you could get help (counseling, monetary help, prenatal care, medical care) but I would try to convince you that abortion was NOT the right way to go… If you decided to get an abortion anyway… THat’s your choice, but I’d know I’d done all I could to help you in another direction
By the way, do you call doctors who perform tonsilectomies “tonsilectomists” and doctors who perform heart transplants “heart transplantists”?
I realize… There is nothing I could say that would make them happy… ut I’d be able to live with myself and know that I was right with God… that’s all that matters to me… Not what they think of me
“How do you feel about a baby that has his skull punctured and his brains sucked out because his mother didn’t want him? Is this not killing?”
A couple inaccuracies here.
1. Not a baby, but that’s arguing semantics
2. The procedure you refer to is ID&X, which is only used in late-term abortions and ONLY to save the mother after other avenues have been exhausted, as per AMA regulations and federal law.
3. As such, the procedure is not performed because the mother “didn’t want him”. If a pregnancy lasts 25+ weeks, I think we can say she did want a child, which makes this procedure a sad necessity.
4. The ID&X procedure you describe, according to Guttmacher, accounts for 0.17 percent of all abortions. Once again, only to save the mother.
Yes, it is killing, but ID&X is, if anything more justified than any other form of abortion.
Ilana,It is not rare.
Well, I come because I get quite a bit of amusement listening to you all spout out ridiculous pro-life rhetoric.
mom: you would be bored with out us here. Besides we like to give you guys a taste of reality and truth every once in a while
Oh silly Ilana, don’t you know that only “abortionists” are evil and horrid enough to warrent that their professions are also their titles?
Once again Ilana, we’re on the same track.
I sense a connection here.
Yes, sweetie, it is rare. In 2000, before the “Partial-Birth Abortion Ban,” ID&X accounted for 0.17% of all abortions.
The American Medical Association has ruled that ID&X is to be an absolute last resort, and any doctor caught performing the procedure for any reason except for an extreme situation where there is no other alternative will lose their liscence and will be subject to inquiry.
are regular doctors at hospitals who give abortions also abortionists?
Of course they are Mars… How dare you ask such a SILLY question…
Well Lando,at least you do call it murder.Perhaps I underestimated you.Let’s just say we could all agree to keep abortion safe,legal,and rare. Do you really think that’s going to happen 4000 abortions a day.That’s a lot.
Nothing in response to what I will tell any of my “kids” who come to me with a pregnancy when I become a Youth Minister… Come on… There has to be SOMETHING wrong with what I said I’d do…
Mars,any doctor that performs an abortion is a murderer. Is anyone who steals $ from their job a thief? I’d say so.
Emily, you’re pro-choice, that’s what’s wrong with what you do. Duuuuuuhhhh.
That’s why we need better sex ed and better contraception… That is the ONLY way to reduce the number of abortions…
When somenone says, “I’m having a baby!”
What does that mean?
Daughter of His Man.
Oh… Yeah… Of course… Thanks for pointing out my error Ilana… How silly of me…
Momof3, once again, do you call a doctor who performs a tonsilectomy a tonsilectomist? You never answered my question.
I believe lando the loser.. oh wait i mean lando the great said partial birth abortions are rare, not abortions in general.
Hey Daughter of His Man!!!
Sup Sugar??
This is a great piece, it hits the nail on the head. Perfect-
Thank-you bloggers at JillStanek.com
… I wish one of you would run for office!
Daughter of HisMan, that likely means that a fetus has implanted into the lining of the uterus. This fetus has come from a division of cells after a sperm and a fertlized egg meet and the fertlized egg manages to implant and slowly divide and grow into a blastula, a zygote, an embryo, then a fetus.
uhhh… That they are having a baby?
There’s a difference between saying “I’m having a baby” and saying “I’m pregnant”. Usually those people that say I’m having a baby, really want to have a baby. If I were pregnant and didn’t want to be, I would say “I’m pregnant” and then probably burst into tears.
“I’m having a baby!” Let’s see. “I’m pregnant right now but in a few months I’m going to give birth and then I will have a baby!” Or, “My water just broke and I’m in labor and I will have a baby!”
Thank you Kate…. I was just about to say the same thing!
DOHM:
it means in a few months they will give birth to a fetus that will be a baby…
I can see that some of the commenters here are still buying into Satan’s lie…..how sad.
“daughter of hisman”
I think you are really “hisman”
I don’t believe Satan’s lie… I live the Word of God… But that’s just me…
What’s Satan’s lie??
I’m a Worshipper of the God of Sex, apparently.
“Well Lando,at least you do call it murder.”
Eh, you did underestimate me. I said it was killing. Not murder.
Jasper, doesnt matter what god thinks. This is the US, not a church
Since Satan doesn’t exist, how can I buy into the lie of something that doesn’t exist?
I think that the people who concieved Christianity made up Satan because they didn’t want to believe their God could be capable of things they didn’t like.
Diana,
OK.
Then stay away if at least you are not amused.
My argument, just in case you couldn’t read between the lines, was that abortion is murder.
Is that clear enough?
Still nothing on what I’d do for the “pregnant 17 y/o girl” who came to me for advice? I’m disappointed…
Cameron,I thought you were barred from this site? Darn! Jasper means that the devil has you in a web of lies.You believe satan and he laughs at you.
Less, I like THAT god. Much more fun than the “GOD” these guys believe in!
and I think Jasper is HisMan
PS. You guys would be bored if I wasn’t here.HA!
Lando,same thing.I got you to call it killing!
Ugh. I have a serious problem getting motivated today. I just can’t concentrate on school knowing what has been going on at others :/
killing does not = murder… So no… Not the same thing…
“I think that the people who concieved Christianity made up Satan”
Well.. that sort of goes without saying. If you’re a satanist, you are technically a christian, because satan is a biblical figure necesitating God and Jesus and what not.
Hehehe, bet so. I didn’t know I worshipped the God of sex, but apparently using condoms and enjoying the poetry of William Blake means I, in fact, do.
“Lando,same thing.I got you to call it killing!”
If you look at my posts, I made it clear that abortion indeed results in death for the fetus. I never deny that
Emily,Yes it does!!! Don’t be upset that one of your team members let it slip.
Momof3, is all killing murder? No. Sorry. You lose once again.
Gestator of 3;
“believe satan”
I think anyone who doesn’t subscribe to exactly what y’all “beleive” is supposedly beleiving in satan… which is pretty much most of the industrialized world.
Less: Then i bet the fact that I am on the pill AND I use condoms and I have been known to watch Jenna Jamison means that I am for SURE worshipping the god of sex.
how fun
Which killing is not murder?
“Don’t be upset that one of your team members let it slip.”
I don’t see what I let slip. I have always acknowledged the obvious: Abortion kills a fetus. No one else has denied it, either.
Self Defense and Abortion for two…
“Which killing is not murder?”
How about self-defense for starters??
Go ask the United States government. There are several different kinds of killing. The Bible says so too. There is manslaughter, murder, killing in self defense… Do you read the news?
killing during a time of war in a war zone usually isn’t considered murder either…
Lando,I take back what I said about you!!*TRUCE*
“Which killing is not murder?”
Warefare. Unless you’re on the losing side.
lol Oh look a call for a truce!
Mars: We can worship the God of Sex together.
“*TRUCE*”
No need. I was never offended.
I am going to kill this chicken so that I may eat it… I am killing but is it murder?
Ohhh… Good one Jana!
ohhh what happened to Jesus’ bo (His Man)??
I really don’t know who denied that abortion kills a fetus.
I have to ask: Do you fight against people driving cars, because cars can get into accidents and kill human beings?
Truce?
what?
are you deciding to grow up and stop the name calling?
good.
Less: Awesome.
I fight against Duck hunters… cuz lil’ duckies have mommy’s too.
So, tomorrow is the due date. when the baby is to take it’s first breath.. THEN it’s a baby?
That makes no sense.
Is there really a difference between saying “I’m pregant”, or “I’m having I baby”?
I might as well say that “Everyone, I have an announcement to make… I am having a zygote!”
*In response to an earlier comment: my parents and teachers and friends did a very good job of sharing with me the beauty of sex. I made the choice ON MY OWN that I will not particiapte in sex before marriage because that is to be kept sacred between my future husband and me.
No reason not to be….Daughter of Hisman
For that matter they better all become vegetarians. All animals have mommys that love them…
Good for you daughter… Too bad not everyone thinks the way you do… But they don’t…
Be kind to your web-footed friends.
No, sweetie. You currently HAVE a zygote. You will be HAVING a baby in the future.
Do you not understand how tense participles work?
I’d be glad to explain them to you if you’d like.
Ilana… Don’t you KNOW… She has a Pre-born baby… Duh…
DOHM
There is a difference. You wouldnt say you are having a zygote because when you give birth it is called a baby. In the womb it is called a fetus. This is not my point of view, this is the medical term…
For a second there, I thought Jesus’ bo was transgender… then His Daughter… whew!!
His Dauther,
Have you asked your father if your a an in-vitro left over… adopted for the purposes of being a pro-life poster baby? Seriously… your pa’s got some zeal, and you should consider…
*shhh* Mars don’t confuse them with medical fact!
I find it funny that in this post, HisMan accuses pro-choice supporters of being power-hungry.
In my experience, pro-lifers are more power-hungry and controllong. They abhor it when someone defies their beliefs, and will do everything in their power to make someone feel bad for defying their beliefs.
“What they fail to realize is that in doing so, they for a moment remove their masks, and their K-9 fangs show through the sheepskin, scaring even themselves. Does a werewolf know who he is?”
Priceless…. Grrrrrr!!!
Not to mention abusing women who are going into PP for Gynological exams and to get their b/c prescriptions… Not to mention all the other reasons women go there BESIDES to get abortions…
Ilana, Thats exactly it. Prolifers are trying to control women while prochoicers think women can choose for themselves…odd, we call ourselves pro choice and thats just what we are…
DOHM: There is a difference in what you say. If there wasn’t I could say “I read the whole book teacher I swear” and actually mean “I really only read a couple pages”. There’s a reason we have words and a vocabulary, so we can say what we mean. If you say you’re pregnant, you’re pregnant. Saying you’re having a baby can mean any number of things as has already been pointed out. Usually calling the thing growing inside of you a baby attaches emotion and sentiment to it, you would only call it a baby if what you want is a baby.
Most of the time, the people standing outside PP screaming at the people walking in are screaming at women going in to get medical checkups. Lol. What a waste of time.
Yeah but they will never admit that… They’d rather just assume they are all murdering whores…
I’m glad that PP where I am from doesn’t have people protesting. If they did I’d walk right up to them and say “i’m getting my physical you idiot!”
Ilana, don’t explain.. no need to.
And Cameron, just stop. The “argumants” you present are childish and completely off subject.
Emily, I appreciate your support about waiting for sex, but I still don’t understand your perspective on abortion. Correct me if I am wrong, but you are saying that you are in simple terms “Okay with abortion?” That’s how it reads to both my dad and me.
Daughter of Hisman
*lol* Ditto… I get my b/c from PP… No protesters though thank God…
well everyone going into pp is a murdering whore…i mean they are using pp which sometimes provides abortion, so they are condoning it by going there…
OH NO! I am a murdering whore…
Back during the bad old days, we just prayed rosaries or something. We didn’t yell.
I was young and stupid.
Hisman, quit pretending to be someone else. and if you are really hisman’s daughter CREATE YOU OWN NAME! or will “daddy” not allow you to be your own person and individual?
“Cameron, just stop.”
OMG.. that’s got to be Jesus’ bo… as opposed to in-vitro left-over.
I AM NOT OK WITH ABORTION… I hate abortion… But I realize there are better ways to get rid of it than by outlawing it… That WILL NOT help anything… And I also realize I CANNOT force my morals on other people… I WILL NEVER support abortion… I only support a womans right to choose it if she feels she needs to… I can’t judge anyone else’s decisions… Those are between them and any God they believe in… Not me
JANA FTW!!!
I get my birth control from them too and because i am so damn poor I get it for free.
Listen, HisMan, we get it that you have issues with people who believe differently from you. I think you need to grow up now, though. It’s childish and petty.
Cameron I cant believe how childish you are…citing science and cold hard facts
*gasp*
so childish
Emily, you are the epitomy of everything I find right with the Christian religion. ^^ Smiles for you.
Emily, no matter how many times you try to eplain it, he wont understand, you’re either pro life and christian, or a deceived pro choicer who cant believe in God in any way or else you know you’re going to hell. He deals in absolutes, nothing else.
:-D Thank you Less… It’s nice to hear that I show my religion in a positive light!
Jana- That’s why I go to PP too… No job= no money= free b/c at PP!
I have left organized religion for philosophical and personal issues belief, but Emily makes me have hope for religion.
“I have left organized religion for philosophical and personal issues belief, but Emily makes me have hope for religion.”
DITTO!
“No job= no money= free b/c at PP!”
I will admit, though, PP condoms suck. Terrible quality. I’d rather fork over some cash for a box of Trojans. They work and feel so much better.
I know Dan… and it is so sad…
:-) I’m glad I can at least give people hope…
Lando
My boyfriend says the same thing. I dont care what he buys though lol doesnt make a difference to me as long as we use lube!
Yeah well… Their Pills have been great so far lol
If women slut around, they diserve to be strapped to a table and forced to give birth… then take the kid away from them and give it someone that actually apreciates life.
Hell ya!
So few do, unfortunately, Emily. But those who do show Christianity in a positive light do it right.
Also, Lando is correct: PP condoms are horrid. I get my BC through my parent’s insurance (Hehe, my Catholic parents even realize I need it); once I’m off it I’ll head to PP though.
Hope is always a good thing. I have essentially left the Church, which im assuming constitutes as organized religion ;)
I follow my conscience and look/explore myself for answers as I ask for help from Him to find and choose the right course. I leave it in His hands to guide me.
Hisman is back and my daughter wanted to comment because she couldn’t believe some of the comments being made. She just ripped the keyboard out of my hands. Finally I told her to go get her homework done ans she could sign on later on her own. NO worry that she done’s have a mind of her own…she has the Mind of Christ…something I think many of you on this site would find hard to understand.
If you think she’s a warrior, you should see my four sons.
Cameron,
I am absolutely confident that my daughter would have zilch interest in you. Too bad, becaseu she absolutely knock down georgeous.
You’re lucky this is cyberspace because if you ever disrespected her in my presence by saying “Sup Sugar?”, well, I think you can imagine….what any self-repsecting dad would do.
does anyone else find it strange that after i said something about “hisman daughter” having her own name hisman says “Hisman is back and my daughter wanted to comment because she couldn’t believe some of the comments being made. She just ripped the keyboard out of my hands. Finally I told her to go get her homework done ans she could sign on later on her own.”
I feel sorry for your children for the abuse you have perpetrated on them over the years. There is nothing worse a parent can do to a child than brainwash them.
Should hisman send his daughter to bed… isn’t it a school night?
it depends where he lives and the time and whatnot.
But im on vacation, only reason im on :)
HisMan
I doubt your daughter is a warrior. I think she is brainwashed to believe what you think.
Your sons will probably never find a strong woman who would love them. If they are anything like you a strong woman would see that they are simply trying to control her, they would leave him,
Hope your sons have fun with their meek and mild wives and I hope your daughter has fun with the guy who will control her life. Thats what she is used to with you right?
Emily,
James 5:12
But above all, my brethren, do not swear, either by heaven or by earth or with any other oath; but your yes is to be yes, and your no, no, so that you may not fall under judgment.
His Man,I hope you had a good trip to California!
As the daughter of a religious leader, I have learned at his feet what the proper way to teach a child is and what the wrong and abusive way to teach a child is. Brainwashing is wrong, immoral, abusive, disgusting, harmful, destructive, and on and on. I hope you’re proud of yourself.
“well, I think you can imagine….what any self-repsecting dad would do.”
LOL… OH ya? My daddy’s bigger than yours… I guess even your righteousness has limits.
BTW.. if she’s really that drop dead, she’s hearing “sup sugar” and you should probably try to contain yourself and take it in stride, as opposed to an assault and battery charge. None the less… assault and battery has likely been on your mind long before I knew you had a daughter.
Besides what is a Sugar Sup? How cheesy!!! I thought Cameron was a woman.
OOps meant a sup sugar.
I HAVE NOT BEEN BRAINWASHED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you are ASSUMING that I have been. My grammar and argument may be elementary, but it is plain and simple. NO ABORTION NO MATTER WHAT! make no assumptions about me and MY faith.
Daughter of Hisman
YOMANK…
Well… Gestator of 3…
Sup is slangy for what’s up. Sugar is a way of… never mind.
Well then don’t make any assumptions about anyone else and no one will have a problem…
Oh sorry loser….my bad dog!!
There’s the name calling again… *sigh*
I thought “daughter of hisman” was doing homework. haha they are so the same person.
WASSUP CAMMY???
DOHM
tell that to your dad.
James 5:28
My brethren, maketh onto the lord, tenderness to your women. Do not raise your voice, but cast them to the ground, and fill their earthly warmth with your bountiful seed.
Jana, I think Id have to agree, they are either the same person or for some reason are in the same room and the daughter is concentrating on this rather than her homework.
tsk tsk
lol Cameron… Will you marry me?
Why do you believe in Jesus? Because Daddy told you to and that if you didn’t, you would go to Hell, or because you have gone on a life-long spiritual journey examining the gospel and the history, learning as much as you could about it, before settling on your beliefs?
I highly doubt it’s the latter. Your anger at the suggestion supports my doubt.
And I find it laughable that you think you can tell me, “I haven’t been brainwashed.” How are you supposed to know if you’ve been brainwashed or not? That’s the most abusive part of it. You don’t even know you’re being abused. I feel very sorry for you.
Momof3, are you sure you’re a grown woman? Because you’re acting very childish.
Sup, Gestator of 3…
LOL..
Back in the day, my black friends would say wassup or sup to me, and I would literally answer them… “oh you know… the ussual…work was….” They’d laugh at me. I still hesitate with the question as greeting thing.
Jana,
Nope. Wrong again. My daughter took a break and read the posts and couldn’t help but respond.
Remeber, she’s brainwashed…..
To satisfy you though she will sign on separately at a later date.
The way your daughter responded, with such anger, proves to me that you’re brainwashing her. She’s so angry that someone would question you, question your beliefs, that she doesn’t know what to do except lash out angrily. It’s very telling. Congratulations, HisMan. You are an abusive father.
Cor 10:23
And this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I might partake of feminine fruits.
took a break after what? 5 min? No way you’re that leniant with your kids
oh, and i hope she passed along that statement about not assuming about other people’s faiths, may wanna follow your daughter’s advice on that one
“that she doesn’t know what to do ”
Yes.. can’t even handle being called sugar
If I were HisMan, I wouldn’t let my daughter even use the computer. Too many Satanic influences for her to get caught up in on the big scary internet.
“Too many Satanic influences for her to get caught up in on the big scary internet.”
Like evil feminist stuff.
I know, she might end up respecting herself as a woman. God forbid.
I’m still waiting for someone to tell me how wrong I was about what I’d tell a 17 y/o girl who came to me for advice concerning her pregnancy…
What I dont understand is how you expect all women to carry all pregnancies? Who will pay for the medical costs pertaining to the child? Who will care for the child? Who will pay for the living costs of the child? Where will the child live?
YOUR WRONG EMILY…. what was it that you were going to tell em??
Ilana,
You call that anger? Good try.
You use words like “sweetie” when addressing other women…..isn’t that demeaning?
Be careful before you slander me.
Let’s get back to the point of this post or can’t you handle that? I mean it’s obvious you’re on a power trip. What are you trying to compensate for? A daddy who wasn’t there for you?
what would you tell a 17 year old girl emily?
lol Thanks Cameron! I said I’d say… “I would have told you that I don’t think abortion is the right answer, but that I cannot tell you not to… I would tell you that you should talk to your parents (because being your youth minister I would know your parents) and I would offer to help you find resources to help you and your family through this hard time…”
I don’t even know why we bothered to respond to this post, lol. HisMan’s claims are so outrageous that even the majority of the pro-life movement would roll their eyes and say, “Uh, are you on crack?”
Um… what was the point of this post?? It got kind of muddled for me after the werewolf question…. way too thought provoking or something.
“HisMan’s claims are so outrageous that even the majority of the pro-life movement would roll their eyes and say, “Uh, are you on crack?” ”
One of my uber-Christian friends did.
I would tell her to do what is right for her and her body. I was that girl… at 18 and I made the choice that was right for me… not the one that a book written by other people tells me im supposed to.
I also said I’d help in every way I could with finding help with counseling, money, healthcare, and anything else needed…
HisMan, I also think you are probably an abusive father, not physically but emotionally and mentally.
I thought we were going to get back to the post, HisMan, and not slander others. Maybe you should practice what you preach.
You’re an excellent hypocrite. You condemn me for something and in the same post, do it yourself. That is the mark of a typical false Christian.
I was that girl too… At 16… I had support… Was not a Christian at that time though… And I did what was right for me at the time… I had an abortion…
Oh His Man’s inveitable assumptions, insults, and just plain being an @$$. Gget over yourself HM, if anyone is compensating for something its you. Your posting under a blasphemous name judging people and their faith on the internet.
Seeing how I love to kill pre-babies… I’d probably have offered to do it for her.
“What are you trying to compensate for? A daddy who wasn’t there for you?”
The fact that someone like you Hisman, would say something like this sickens me. How can you tell her not to slander you and then say something so ignorant and rude? Isnt it that Christians are nto supposed to judge other? You arent a Christian, you are a person that warped their view of the “bible” into what you want so the rules dont always apply to you.
lol… And again… I love you Cameron :-)
And hisman… I’m ashamed that you are of the same religion as me… Your attitude makes me sick and ashamed that you “represent” my God
Do you think maybe the “devil” has taken over?
I don’t understand how people can be so OBVIOUSLY hypocritical. Are you simply incapable of turning the criticisms you have of everyone else back onto yourself?
I shudder to think of what you would find when you scrutinize yourself under the same lens with which you view the rest of the world, HisMan. Every word I read from you is filled with anger and hate. You are clearly a very sad man who is lacking something in his life, which is why you spend so much time judging the actions of others. Try it for one second: Judge yourself.
I don’t know how someone so HATE filled can claim to be a follower of Jesus Christ… I just don’t understand that…
Ilana, the second paragraph in your post made me think of one of the books in the Shannara series by Terry Brooks. I think it’s “Sword of Shannara”.
Very true, Emily. Nothing I hear from HisMan follows the word of Jesus at all.
It is honestly because of people like “HM” that I do not attend a church. Why would I go somewhere specifically to be judged? To be looked down upon, to walk around with people who think they are better than me? It saddens me that people such as HM are the people that are filling growing minds with propaganda and hatred towards so many people. Your anger towards women is appaling and your disrespect towards people in general makes me sick
And by the way:
“I HAVE NOT BEEN BRAINWASHED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
Yeah, see the capslocks and the multiple exclamation points? That’s what we here call anger and weakness.
Not a word of it… Jesus was about loving sinners… He was friends with prostitutes (NOT Mary Magdalene) and lepers… He loved everyone, even those who condemned him to DEATH… You CANNOT use His name to spread hate…
I’m so sorry about that Lindsey… Anyone like that is NOT a real Christian in my opinion…
no reason to apologize emily. I dont believe he is either…
“They are driven by the lust for power…They are no different than the poor man who …antasizes about taking the rich man’s watch without regard to how or why the rich man acquired the watch; while poor materially, they lack no prejudice. Perhaps this itself feeds the power demon inside them,… the perverted, twisted and demented logic shows its ugly head from every angle of the looking glass”
I don’t know… I think he’s ooooozing love!
I have to wonder why HisMan hates women so much.
:-) I just feel obligated to apologize for anyone who spreads this hate in the name of MY religion… It’s offensive to me…
it isnt up to you tho, you are not the one that is spreading such hatred and animosity. Does he usually take this long to reply… or is he loggin in as his “daughter”?
I have no idea.. This is the first time I’ve really gotten into a discussion here…
He’s probably going to reply with a ton of Bible verses that really don’t apply to those who don’t believe in God and tell us we’re all sinning whores who are going to burn in Hell unless we accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior.
typekey isnt even on, he wouldnt have to even do much aside from switch computers if he doesnt want jill knowing hes lying and then have a different email and type in a different name
Ilana,
It’s interesting that you seem to be taking so much pleasure in attacking my daughter. You really do have a problem with women that have it together don’t you? Over compensation……
So many attacks, so little time.
No, my daughter is no weakling. She was a state track champion, a nationally ranked cheerleader,
loves God, loves her mom and dad, and by the way, her boyfriend is a great kid too and someone I hope she will marry! By the way, his parents brainwashed him too. I mean they’ve actaully learned from us that saving themselves for marriage is a good thing…..oooooooooh….what eeeeeeeeeeeeevil parents.
She’s going off to college next year, so her faith will be tested probably by the likes of people like you. I don’t worry, she is self-confident and strong in her faith in God and I pray for her daily.
Oh, by the way, tell me about your journey. Was God right when He said if you seek me with all your heart you will find me? Or, are you still looking enlightened one?
Yes, obviously Heather, it’s not enough that you’re a good person who cares for those around you… Unless you’ve accepted Jesus, you’re going to hell, period.
Bulllllllllllllllllllllllll–tttttttt
I am a sinner, every one of us is. I am not religous but when I was younger I went to bible camp and there I learned that all sins are equal. If you say “Oh my god” it is the same as murdering someone or commiting adultery or theft or disobeying your parents or juding another person… sinning is sinning, there arent different degrees of it.
I’ve accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior and I’m sure he thinks I’m going to hell for being pro-choice… lol
Maybe I should look into the whole Christian thing again, Ilana. Then I can be a hypocrite who spreads the message of God love in a very hateful manner.
You are correct there Lindsey… There are none that are righteous, no not one…
HIS MAN???? I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU> PLEASE RESPOND
HisMan, I thought you said to stop slandering? I don’t need to defend myself to a weakling like yourself. Every insult you throw at me can apply to you. You need to get over yourself, get over your hate for women.
I’m sorry you hate so much that my beliefs don’t align with yours. That’s why I live in America, where we’re allowed to believe freely without people trying to persecute you for your views. Oh wait…
My spiritual beliefs don’t concern you. My relationship with God is between me and God.
“By the way, his parents brainwashed him too. ”
Great… that means neither of them why she menstruates… how to calculate ovulation… etc… But I’ll bet they can suck the plaque off each other’s teeth just the same.
So, if abortion is against God’s intent (and by the way I find it offensive to the Lord and extremely disgusting that you pretend to know the Lords intent), what about prevent and/or evading pregnancy and enjoying a healthy and fufilling sex life?
I take birth control. I am emotionally prepared to have sex, however, I am not meant to be a mother quite yet. Not all women are meant or created to propagate the speices.
Peace.
By the way, HisMan, “the likes” of me? Do you know anything about me at all? No, you don’t.
I thought that you Christians went by something that goes along the lines of, “Judge not, lest ye be judged.” But hey, I could be wrong. Apparantly judging others is the Christian thing to do!
Yes, there is a difference..
Venial and Mortal.
There is a HUGE difference between shooting over 30 people…and lying to your parents. We are all sinners yes and I think repentant sinners will all find His mercy, but it is ridiculous to think that there are no varying degrees of sin.
I know this is true at least for Catholics..but I”m not sure about the protestant version of this..
Ilana I think he has something against you. I wrote a long post about his daughter and his sons and he hasn’t said one word to me…
And HisMan, just because she can run fast and dance around in a little skirt doesnt make her a strong woman. A strong woman chooses her own beliefs, a strong woman doesn’t let a man choose for her, a strong woman understands that while her family is very supportive other women may not have supportive families and they may need to choose an abortion. A strong woman understands that while an abortion may not be right for her it might be right for someone else and she has no right to force her own views on others.
Well, HisMan? Who am I, since you know soooo much about me? I’m waaaaiting.
Yeah, seems he has a vendetta against her for some reason, he essentially ignored everyone else.
Just the fact that he needs to write a list of her accomplishments shows that even he doesn’t think he’s as strong as he’s claiming she is. I could list my accomplishments, but I don’t need to prove anything to anyone. He feels like he has something to prove. It’s so amusing.
So… he doesnt believe in abortion at any time? What if his precious strong daughter couldnt fight a man off of her with her cheerleader kicks and got pregnant? Would the right thing for her to do be to carry the pregnancy to term?
I’m still waiting for him to reply to me… The Christian Pro-choicer… You’d think he’d hate me more than all of you combined… lol
Ilana, wrong again!
Remember I am for woman, especially the ones in the womb that are innocent and defenseless.
Somehow, I think Jesus would be too. He had a heart for kids and put in the strongest terms warnings of the severest kind against those who would hurt children, any children.
And you can argue all you want that unborn babies are not children. I think you would have a hard time winning that argument against the God of the Universe since He seems to be the One doing all the conceptions. Haven’t seen any humans infusing a living soul into a mass of cells, have you lately? Oh, I know, they don’t have souls, becasue, I remember , God doens’t exist and there’s no such thing as a soul, right?
You say you are pro-woman? Then, where’s your outrage agaisnt the slaughter of 25,000,000 woman in the womb in this country alone over the last 34 years? Where. How do you possibly hide from such hypocrisy? Where’s your outrage against their abuse?
No, Ilana, I am not the hypocrite, I am the one taking abuse for those who cannot speak for themselves, at least half of them woman.
I am not the brainwashed one because to be brianwashed means you can’t see the truth when it’s staring right in front of you.
Ilana, its because you are the most outspoken out of the bunch… women like you seem to drive him nuts, its the whole power and control thing to him. The more you “defy” him the more upset he gets with you and the harder he feels he has to push to get you to stay in line like a good woman is supposed to.
Lindsey:
He would make her have it, no matter what kind of emotional stress he put his daughter under. Under all his caring pretenses he honestly doesnt care about anyone but himself and his personal beliefs.
Oh no Emily, course not. I introduced myself here as a Christian pro choicer (in the loosest term of the word Christian) and they really didnt care, they were more amazed that I had gone from pro life to pro choice.
course, as soon as I said i didnt think the Bible was the infallible word of God I was essentially told Im automatically going to Hell.
The subject comes up once in awhile, but they tend to ignore religion unless it suits them to use or attack or just say that you cant truly be christian end of story.
Yes, HisMan. You are a hypocrite. You told me to stop slandering and to get back on topic, then you slandered me. That is pure hypocrisy, and if you can’t see it, you ARE brainwashed, because you can’t see the truth when … what did you just say? Oh. “You can’t see the truth when it’s staring right in front of you.”
I think you meant “standing,” no?
EVERY SINGLE THING you are saying to ME can be turned right back onto you. That is what a hypocrite is, HisMan. You are a hypocrite. Time to get over yourself.
lol… A Christian after my own heart there Dan :-)
again hisman ignores everyone else and focuses on Ilana. Funny thing is we are all saying pretty much the same things about him!
“I am not the brainwashed one because to be brianwashed means you can’t see the truth when it’s staring right in front of you.”
You are.. in no uncertain terms, just a wee bit ideologically preoccupied… and more so than most. But hey, call it what you will! I personally think that maybe they’re slipping you a micky at communion.
Lindsey, trust me, I know. People hate me because I’m outspoken. But I’d rather people hate me for my conviction in my beliefs than love me for my silence.
HIS MAN- IF GOD DIDNT WANT ABORTIONS THEN WHY WOULD HE MAKE MANKIND SMART ENOUGHT OT THINK OF THEM AND THEN CREATE THE DEVICES TO CARRY THEM THROUGH? (IF IT MEANS YOU WILL ANSWER ME YOU CAN THINK IM ILANA)
HisMan is a delusional, cult-brainwashed dupe. And so are his kids.
lol Emily.
I still dont understand how he can use the word His Man without feeling any guilt, that was actually one of the first things I noticed, and since then me and him really havent gotten along well, especially when history gets brought into a discussion ;)
I really admire you Ilana.
I know… The name is a wee bit blasphemous… But… I’m sure he doesn’t see that at all…
Emily,
Let me answer your question by asking you some questions.
Let’s say a man wanted to cheat on his wife because perhaps, she wasn’t having sex with him? Would you tell him that adultery was wrong because that’s what God says, or would you tell him that was his choice?
What about divorce? Wouldn’t you tell him that God hates divorce and by doing so covers himself and his family with violence?
What about stealing?
What about homosexuality?
What about lying?
What about murder? Let’s say a child was being horribly abused by a parent? They came to you and said the only way out was to kill the parent. Would you tell them that you were agsint killing the parent, they should go get counseling, call the police, etc., etc., etc., but conclude by saying, “ultimately it’s your choice”?
I can gaurantee you that you wouldn’t be a Youth Minister the next day.
I have said it before and I will say it again
His poor sons are never going to know what it is like to have a strong woman. strong women will see through them and understand they think they are superior and that women are only good for baby making….
they will have meek mild women who are BORINGGGGG
And his daughter will marry someone who controls her because that is what she is used to at home.
I would say “it is your choice” to all of the options you presented… other than homosexuality, which isnt a choice, just like you being straight isnt a choice. Stealing, divorce, cheating, lying, even murder are all personal choice.
Well, Emily, there’s your attack.
though sadly, thats a fairly common one, very generic and gone through over and over again, yet he still uses it.
Aww… thank you Lindsey.
HisMan, you’re a pathetic excuse for a human being and you make most Christians ashamed to be Christian because of how terribly you reflect on the entire religion. Are you proud of yourself for that? Does that make you happy? Do you like being angry and hypocritical?
HisMan, if you can choose to be gay, please try it.
Lindsey,
In answer to your question, what about Hitler?
Let me know how it works out for you.
lol… Hisman… If that’s the best you can come up with I’m disappointed…
She will most likely end up with a man that beats and forces himself on her. She is being raised to believe that the man is always right and you must obey him at all times. I feel so bad for her.
“Let me answer your question by asking you some questions.”
Translation: let’s change the argument because I haven’t anything to advance mine at the moment.
Ilana, Dont you know that gay people can be “reprogrammed” to not be gay anymore.
DUHHHHH It is so OBVIOUSLY a choice to be gay so that you can deal with biggoted jerks like hisman
Ilana,
Stop avoiding the issues please.
Yes, HisMan, what about Hitler? Where was God to prevent the Holocaust? I thought your God was capable of all things. So why didn’t he stop the Holocaust?
You know, it’s commonly rumored that Hitler’s mother had wanted to have an abortion but was convinced otherwise.
What about Hitler HM? You didnt answer my question, you asked me something on a completely unrelated topic…. You have horrible credibility and I cant believe that someone… anyone would let you write for their website.
What issues? The only issue I see is that within the same post you told me to stop slandering, you made a slanderous comment about my own family. That is called hypocrisy. The only one I see avoiding anything is you.
“In answer to your question, what about Hitler?”
Well… I guess that settles it. Godwin’s rule… everybody go to bed now.
I read that too Ilana.. In one of my highschool history books.
Awww… But daddy… I’m not tired *pouts*
HisMan
If your daughter was raped would you make her keep the baby?
But while we’re at it, HisMan, here’s another unfounded and unsupported comment you made about me:
” Oh, I know, they don’t have souls, becasue, I remember , God doens’t exist and there’s no such thing as a soul, right?”
Go find for me where I said God doesn’t exist. Go, find it.
Ilana,
I tell you where God was. He was on the throne, same place He’s at right now.
Can you handle that God could even make right something as horrible as the holocause right?
And someday the horror of the abortion holocaust will be made right too.
Jumping in here (though this thread seems to have gone a bit off track):
I don’t agree with abortion and think it should be illegal, although my reasons have never been about religion.
Do I think the government should be involved in the decision?
Absolutely–whenever “right to life” is at stake I believe the government has a duty to protect.
Even if the fetus is only a “blob of cells” aesthetically and biologically those cells are embraced and nurtured by the woman’s body exclusive of her thoughts or desires. As I have said on other sites regarding this, if the umbilical cord ran up to the brain of the woman and upon the woman thinking “I really don’t want this!” the baby terminated? I would perhaps see a point. But it doesn
HisMan, have you ever been to Auschwitz? How many Holocaust survivors do you know, much less speak to on a daily basis, for that matter? What exactly do you know of the horrors of the Holocaust? I know you know NOTHING.
I know where God was during the Holocaust. Abortion is not a holocaust. You’re
His Man, just no.
ABORTION =/= HOLOCAUST, say that to a survivor or almost any Jewish family, and you will be hit so hard youll probably go down. Dont you DARE call it a holocaust or a genocide, it doesnt fit. Just, no.
Excuse me. I pressed “post” by accident.
You’re pathetic, you know nothing of the world, and even better, you’re making stuff up about me to attack.
Please, HisMan. Tell me what you know about me.
ohhh NEVER compare abortion to the Holocaust to a Jew… Even I know that! Bad call Hisman
Mars,
Yes, and I would raise the baby and make it my own and teach him or her about God and how he or she was not a mistake and how his or her mother did the courageous thing so as to turn a wrong into a right. That baby would be a champion for life like all my children are.
Guess you find that blasphemous and makes me evil too?
You guys are very hard to understand. Ah, who can understand the mystery of iniquity.
HisMan:
The baby would not be yours. It would be your daughter’s
Just another time why you show how little you think of women, even your own daughter, to think that HER baby would actually be yours, not hers to raise as she wants
Hey, HisMan, were the Crusades justified?
Correction: “Sex, by nature IS NOT, some quick, consequence-less…”
sorry!
Mars: I know. Wonderful. He doesn’t even want his daughter raising a child SHE gives birth to.
why should be where
Mars: I know. Wonderful. He doesn’t even want his daughter raising a child SHE gives birth to.
Excuse me all for a moment… I need to go vomit… I’ll be right back…
But what if your daughter went ahead and had it aborted??? What of your precious in-vitro left-over??
ok His Man, I wrote this blog entry up at another site, but it fits the situation, hope you feel like an insensitive jerk afterwards.
I was surfing the web today, and happened to come across a bit of pro-life propaganda. Not only was it untrue – it was truly offending. Now, here it comes:
http://www.christianshirts.net/images/designs/small/abort150.gif
I
I have never in my life been so disgusted by another human being. The sheer ignorance and uneducated mind it takes to make such a statement as you did hisman is obviously just as ignorant and uneducated in life.
Ilana,
I know the holocaust was satan’s attempt at breaking God’s heart by choosing the one thing that could, killing His chosen people, the Jews.
If abortion is not the same, an attempt at braking God’s heart by attacking unborn, innocent children, I don’t know what is.
Thank God kids can get abortions without their parents permission in most states…
Thank you so much for that Dan!
Guess what, HisMan. Jews don’t believe in Satan. So please, go tell a Jew that six million of their brethren died because of something that doesn’t exist.
At best, you’ll be laughed at uproariously, if you’re lucky. If you’re not lucky… God have mercy on you.
Now, once again. Tell me what you know about me.
I find it very interesting that Satan didn’t exist until Christianity.
no problem emily.
Bbut of course hisman you think the jews are going to hell anyway for not believing Jesus is the messiah correct? So why are you calling them chosen if you think they’re going to hell?
Ilana: Satan was created as a way to scaring the crap out of people into “believing” and “accepting” Christianity as nobody would have joined it without the fear of eternal punishment.
That and people wanted an excuse for why bad things happen, because heaven forbid, God could do something “evil”.
Hisman makes me seriously consider becoming Wiccan again… At least Wiccan’s are sane… And there’s no Satan to use to justify EVERYTHING bad…
That’s because the Jews, as sons and daughters of Abraham, are God’s chosen.
What are they chosen for? Ask one on a bad day, they’ll tell you they’re chosen to be persecuted for the duration of eternity by fools like HisMan.
If I were to be any religion I think I wold be budhist. They are about respect for everything as far as I understand which is something I think highly of. It isnt different people interpreting man’s words about something nobody really knows exists, its about respect.
I hope you have a jewish friend or co worker who beats the crap out of you for saying that abortion and the holocaust are comparabale.
Respect someone who doesn’t believe the same things as you?!!! Lindsey, that’s blasphemous!
There actually is a tribal form of Christianity where Lucifer is “worshipped”…as a fallen angel that repented and accepted back under the Lord’s mercy..
Interesting. Just adding a random fact for y’alls enjoyment!
I just loved Wicca… I still do… Even though I am a Christian… I will defend Wiccans until my dying day… The are some of the nicest, most peaceful people in the world… I never met one who was mean or rude… It’s all about the rule of three & the Wiccan Rede… Anything you do will come back to you three times over, and “An it harm none, do what ye will”…
Mars, they arent the only one. When i mentioned it to a friend they went “People DO that! WTF!” and then went on to go on angry tirades and what theyd like to do to anyone who does that
It’s obvious that HisMan knows nothing about me, but thinks he knows all.
I’m waiting for a long post from him about how evil I am.
I don’t know… Wicca… Guardinarian… Druids.. .and what not.. they can all be like evangelical christians too. The pot-lucks, equinox/full-moon get togethers rock though!!!
I LOVE you Ilana!!!
Yeah my boyfriend thinks it is stupid that I blog and stuff but he started reading what hisman was saying about holocaust=abortion and making his daughter have her baby if she was raped and now he thinks hisman is the biggest Ahole ever
And I love you, Emily.
See, HisMan, we know how to love those who have opposing views from our own. You should try it one day.
Iilana, im waiting fdor hi to just copy and paste my blog while just attempting to reconcile it by changing select words to fetus, abortion, etc just to prove how ignorant he truly is.
I loved the holiday get togethers… there was one at a state park & we all camped out and celebrated and there was a handfasting… Best weekend of my life
I would just like to know how he functions on a day to day basis. Like how is someone who is so… (i know i keep using this word) ignorant still walking around in society?
wow, my spelling was truly atrocious in my last comment, sorry everyone, combo of a sucky keyboard and me not re-reading what I typed out
Ilana, if you get a post about how evil you are and I dont I am going to be very jealous, I wouldnt want to be considered not evil by HisMan LOLOLOL
He has to be playing his ignorance up cuz this is on the net or something…
Dan,
You see, there’s an unseen war being waged all around us, however, its affects are all around us: death, hate, sin, disease, etc. It’s hard to dismiss the evidence.
Perhaps you or another blogger has previously brought up the subject of Job. Well, the story of Job is proof of the existence of the battle. God and satan made a wager and Job was the subject.
In fact, the story extrapolated is about each one of us. Who will we choose under adversity?
Will, when we are put under the adversity of an unwanted pregnancy, we let the baby live, choose life, or kill the baby, choose death? Will we choose Jesus, life, or satan, death?
It’s an ongoing question that is eventually answered and decided by each of us with eternal consequences.
So yes abortion is a systematic attempt at killing a class of humans; unborn, innocent children in the womb. With it’s goal at hurting God Himself, perhaps an invisible attempt, but not without convincing evidence.
I choose to be a man of God (His Man) and battle the lie of abortion and those that would promote it, choose it, support it, and do it.
You want to do it? Go ahead, it’s legal, but it’s wrong.
“Will, when we are put under the adversity of an unwanted pregnancy, we let the baby live, choose life, or kill the baby, choose death? Will we choose Jesus, life, or satan, death?”
I choose Pikachu! He can totally pwn Satan and Jeebus.
I dont think so Em, I think that hes putting it all out there because it is the net and he doesnt think people know who he really is and therefor can say whatever he pleases.
Emily: maybe it is that he knows he views are laughable and idiotic so he would never say them in the real world, just here
I choose Squirtle! He was the BESTEST
You, HisMan, are guilty of being one of the most blasphemous men I have ever encountered. You are only a man. You do not speak for God.
I think you fancy yourself Jesus Christ. That’s very sad.
Hmmm… That could be… I just CAN’T believe someone would be this hateful and ignorant in everyday life
His Man, I hope you are aware of the blasphemy you are commiting by thinking you can automatically speak for Him and that you must be correct. You’re currently playing dice with your own soul as well, worry about your eternal self before you worry about mine.
but see, fetuses dont fit into any group that defines a genocide, that was gone over, they are not all aborted because of their race, gender, religious beliefs (though they have none), thoughts (depends), ideas(most likely not), etc. They do NOT fit into the class of genocide nor is it even CLOSE to the holocaust
I think that the Bible makes it undeniably clear that God is explicitly pro-choice, but then again, those who can’t read will say otherwise.
It is also legal for people like yourself to live Hisman, but it is wrong. You dont hear me writing articles on it (although im positive it would be a lucritive career)
Ilana,
It’s easy to love someone who agrees with you.
True love (agape love ) is telling someone the truth despite the fact that they might crucify you.
His Man:
Are you implying that you think Ilana wants to crucify you?
I think HisMan needs to check himself into a mental institute.
I honestly think he is crazy.
And then I think he needs to live with a bunch of prochoice women and jews. that way everytime he is a dumbay$$ they can slap him.
Aversion Therapy
Emily and I certainly do not agree on everything, and we probably don’t agree on most things.
I’m telling you the truth. You don’t like it, though.
Aaaaaaaaw see how easily the things you say get turned right back around onto you? I don’t get it, HisMan. How are you such a hypocrite?
And once again: Tell me what you know about me, since you made it abundantly clear that you know what kind of person I am.
I know what I BELIEVE God wants… But I don’t PRESUME to say that I KNOW what is in the mind of God… That’s so blasphemous… I cannot believe you will condemn others while speaking like this
Wow–am I the only pro-lifer still up?
So after my long-winded, whole-hearted effort to address my points on the debate I see unless I am hating HisMan or calling abortion the holocaust I get ignored (thanks peeps!).
So, in effort, to avoid finishing my online exam I will play by others’ rules.
Abortion does not equal the holocaust. Genocide is about killing off people with certain alignments/distinctions. Abortion is ensuring being inside the mother never reaches a point in life to even have distinctions. Splendid.
If my phantom-daughter ever got pregnant and didn’t want the child? Of course I would take care of it and say she should have it. Nine months of her life is not worth the entirety of another’s.
Now you have my attention pisaquari… nine months out of her life? give me a break. that is disgusting. have you ever been raped? have you ever been forced to carry a fetus in your uterus?
pisa, normally we wouldnt mind adressing your arguments, but when His Mans around, we tend to focus on him simply becuase we dont think he realizes what the hell hes saying
Pisaquari
sorry we are ignoring you, hisman is just a terrible human and he makes us mad.
Now on to you:
One sex does not equal consent to pregnancy. if a woman is doing everything short of abstinence to keep from getting pregnant then she has the right to not have a baby.
We are some of the only animals that can have sex for pleasure, we do not have to get pregnant when we have sex
That’s all fine and good for YOU… But who are you to tell others that “nine months of her life” isn’t worth it… Especially when pregnancy can lead to death with no signs to warn people?
and now I am off for some consequence free sex so you guys have a good night!!
TFAB
Ilana,
I’ve got to admit, you are very difficult not to get mad at, especially when you blaspheme God’s Word.
Let’s see, I think you said that God is “pro-choice”. But Lando, Cameron, SOMG, etc., etc., etc., say there is no God. Where are they when I need them? Sounds like a liberal thing.
Lindsey, was that a death threat? Do your parents know that you are up this late?
Especially if those nine months were to include, I don’t know, college graduation, admission into the law school of your choice with an excellent scholarship… I don’t know. Nine months isn’t simply ‘nine months.’ A lot can happen in that time.
HAVE FUN MARS!!!!!! (Lucky!!!)
The only one here who is saying anything blasphemous is you, HisMan. The rest of us know that, since we’re not God, we don’t speak for God. Somehow, you have a problem with that.
So, again. Tell me what you know about me, since you claim you know what kind of person I am.
Emily,
If you’re a Christian, I’m pro-choice.
Ah there he goes…insulting liberals, because you know…liberals haven’t done a damned thing for this country (even though without liberals there would be no United States of America…but whatever…).
HisMan, if you’re a Christian, I’m a dolphin.
HAHAHAHA, definately not a death threat, I just said that I do not believe that people such as yourself should be able to exist.
And I am an adult with a child… who I choose to keep in a situation that most wouldnt. Dont try to make me out to be some child.
LOL Good to know you’ve changed your mind! YAY!
His Man, get a grip, you arent as important as you seem to be trying t make yourself out to be. God is a matter of faith.
and to let you know His Man (which i still think is a far higher blaspheme to think you know whats going on in the mind of God) I am a Liberal, I believe in God and Jesus Christ.
Assumptions make you look like an @$$, dont even bother with ’em
But I think that was just your admission that you’ve been lying to us all along, that you really ARE pro-choice.
Out of the two of you, Emily is the true Christian. You are hypocritical and judgemental, rude and blasphemous, and you think you are God. You are certainly no Christian.
Emily, are you sure you want someone like him on our side? I mean, obviously, he does enough damage to his own.
I can read.
I can study.
I can show myself approved, a workman that need not be ashamed.
Yep, there’s about 100 Bibles in my office. About 10 bible software programs in my computer, and then there’s the internet.
What’s your excuse for not knowing God’s Word and telling me I don’t know what God says about a certain theological subject?
For the record.. I’ve never said anything about God. I did however, point out that Jesus was not buried… which kind blows the whole resurrection thing, and, if you’re an evangelical wing nut, that mind as well be saying there is no God.
so His Man has finally joined the pro choice side, though I think that would hurt more than help us. Maybe now he’ll let us duct tape his mouth shut.
So you know Hisman… I AM a Christian… My two favorite books right now are The Bible and one I just picked up called “How to be Like Jesus” (Which is impossible… but still good to try) Just because I don’t believe the same WAY you do doesn’t make me any less of a Christian…Jesus is my Lord and Savior… He died on the cross so I could have eternal life… I KNOW where my soul is going… And I don’t fear death like most pro-lifer seem to… But thank you for assuming you know me…
Alyssa, that’s just it. He’s so pro-choice that he’s spent all this time making the pro-life side look terrible, so people don’t take pro-lifers seriously.
Thank you very much for all your hard work for our cause, HisMan!
His Man: The only use I can think of for having that many bibles is for kindling for a nice toasty fire.
“What’s your excuse for not knowing God’s Word and telling me I don’t know what God says about a certain theological subject?”
What is your excuse for relying on a book to determine how you treat other people… and doing so so flippen poorly at that??
*applause to His Man*
Ooh, you want to play the Who-Has-More-Religious-Texts-In-Their-Home game?
I have over a thousand copies of religious texts within my very household, a couple thousand books by historians and religious leaders of multiple denominations analyzing said religious texts. I have read a good many of them.
When you are before God, and He asks you why you found yourself fit to speak for Him, what are you going to say?
And one more time, bud: What do you know about me, since you claim you know the kind of manner of person I am?
hahaha, you crack me up Ilana… that is exactly what he has been doing… just making them look bad, I wish I had thought that one up guys!
I have the Tao of Pooh.
I don’t need to waste my time attacking the pro-life movement, they do all the work for me. I just need to sit back and laugh.
Good book, Cameron
His Man seems to think that just because hes studied his religion SOOOO much that he can speak to God. Quite an accomplishment when there are others that have studied theology far more and know that they can do nothing of the sort.
to God should be for God in my last comment
Dan… Will you marry me? :-D
“nine months out of her life? give me a break. that is disgusting. have you ever been raped? have you ever been forced to carry a fetus in your uterus?”
Nope. Never been president but I voted.
“One sex does not equal consent to pregnancy. if a woman is doing everything short of abstinence to keep from getting pregnant then she has the right to not have a baby.”
I find this ironic. Sex does not equal consent to pregnancy and yet you consent to recoginze pregnancy as a very real possiblity by using contraceptive methods. You consent to the possibility then, no?
If I ate 20 BigMacs this week and still exercised I’d probably still gain weight. Fatty foods equal fat on my body. I didnt consent to gain weight but I must realize that I have limitations as a person. My stomache is not a waste-pit and my ovaries are not clouds.
“We are some of the only animals that can have sex for pleasure, we do not have to get pregnant when we have sex”
Really? What % do you think? Lots of animals in the “animal kingdom” are known for homosexual sex as a means of pleasure.
“That’s all fine and good for YOU… But who are you to tell others that “nine months of her life” isn’t worth it… Especially when pregnancy can lead to death with no signs to warn people?”
This argument loses teeth for me fast. One: do you know the actual facts on death due to pregnancy? Enlighten me.
Second: This isnt about ME. This is about recognizing a voice that cannot, for logistical reasons, defend itself. I don’t fight this side for me–I am a female–you dont think I could make life a little “easier” and keep abortion for my own sake? But I dont see my rights as dependent on trumping the rights of others’.
PS: Thanks for the quick responses.
Here’s what I think HisMan thinks he knows about me:
That I’m an evil athiest liberal whore who likes to kill babies in my spare time.
Thanks you for enlightening me on how eating big macs is the same as having sex… i feel bad for your sex life.
Sure Emily, well get a 10 min vegas wedding, just like one of those priests who gets ordained in 10 minutes on the net ;)
*flies off to vegas* oh, by the way, hope you dont mind marrying a Junior in highschool XD, lol
and Ilana, I think he thinks ALL pro-choicers are like that ;)
So Ilana… are you saying that you arent an evil athiest liberal whore who likes to kill babies in your spare time? because if that is what you are saying i dont think we can be friends anymore… i mean i thought our type stuck together… and if you arent into being a liberal whore who likes to kill innocent “babies” in your spare time i dont see this working out for us… im sorry
So Dan, are you an evil atheist whore (well…gigolo ) who kills babies in your spare time?
Niiiiice. Marry me too…afterall, we’re all heathens, so polygamy ought to be fair game. :-p
Give me a few minutes and I’ll find Incidence rates… Gotta find them…
And you’re still ignoring the fact that a pregnancy is a huge physical, emotional and financial burden on a woman. Here’s a short list of pregnancy-related complictions, many of which can become permanent (like diabetes and muscle/nerve damage,) and quite a few of which can kill us or make us sterile. Read up on some of this before you so casually dismiss that nine months.
—————————————————————
Bacterial Vaginosis
Bed Rest
Bleeding During Pregnancy
Blighted Ovum
Cervical Cerclage
Chicken Pox
Cholestasis of Pregnancy
Common Pregnancy Complications
Concerns regarding Early Fetal Development
Cytomegalovirus (CMV) Infection
D&C procedure after a Miscarriage
Ectopic Pregnancy
Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorders (FASD); Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (FAS) & Fetal Alcohol Effects (FAE)
Fetal Growth Restriction
Gestational Diabetes
Group B Strep Infection
High Amniotic Fluid Levels : Polyhydramnios
HIV/AIDS during Pregnancy
Hyperemesis Gravidarum
Incompetent Cervix
Intrauterine Growth Restriction (IUGR): Small for Gestational Age (SGA)
Listeria
Low Amniotic Fluid Levels : Oligohydramnios
Miscarriage
Molar Pregnancy
Placenta Accreta
Placenta Previa
Placental Abruption
Preeclampsia
Pregnancy Induced Hypertension (PIH)
RH Factor
STD’S & STI’S During Pregnancy
Tipped Uterus
Toxoplasmosis
Urinary Tract Infection
Yeast Infection
http://www.americanpregnancy.org/pregnancycomplications/index.htm
Nah… No worries… I like em young ;-)
but you see emily all of those could have been avoided if we all would have kept our legs closed…
Sure Rae, why not, but we’ll have to go to Utah for that wedding ;)
Just kidding for all you Mormons/Utahians out there, I know its been outlawed for ages by the church, etc, so dont assume Im bein ignorant ;)
*flies over to Utah and gets married to Rrae at the Great Salt Lake* XD
“Thanks you for enlightening me on how eating big macs is the same as having sex… i feel bad for your sex life.”
The point, I thought, was obvious: certain acitivites equal certain results, regardless of what we “consent” to. I was not on Earth when the powers/random acts made lipids a fatty substance that tasted good nor was I present when sex included tremendous sensation and responsibilities.
Intrauterine Growth Restriction (IUGR): Small for Gestational Age (SGA)
I had this while pregnant with my daughter, I went into labour at 26 weeks pregnant and almost died. My daughter is now 14 months and looks to be about ten months or so. She will always be small from this and any future children I carry will have a 75% chance of having it as well, putting myself at higher risk of dying during labour.
An estimated 529,000 women die from pregnancy-related causes worldwide each year
http://www.guttmacher.org/in-the-know/pregnancy.html
I dunno about you… But it would at least make me think… Especially if the pregnancy was unwanted…
Who are you to say a woman MUST take that risk?
I know if we wanna be healthy we need to stop being whores and close our legs…
Let’s summarize:
Abortion is murder and represents a class struggle. It is used as a pawn for the sole purpose of gaining political power. Unfortunately many young woman, now a generation, have been brainwashed that abortion is a right. Now that’s a cerebral holocaust in itself.
If pro-choice woman were truly for woman, they would be abhorred at the thought of abortion. Am I surprised that in nature, some mothers eat their own young?
When pro-choicers find it convenient they say God doesn’t exist, it’s not a baby, there’s no such thing as a soul, kind of like denying that 1 + 1 = 2 even when they have been blessed with fingers they can count on and prove it to themselves. No, they would rather cut off their own hands than admit the truth.
Here’s the real sad part though….Christians that think pro-choice is OK with God. These people either make false claims about their faith or are simply in error. Like I said many times, if someone can prove to me Biblically that abortion is OK, I’ll change my view. Until then, it’s going to be a battle and the tide I can see turning.
And for those of you begging for a scripture, here’s one: 2 Chronicles 7:14 “and My people who are called by My name humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, will forgive their sin and will heal their land.”
Non-belivers, sorry, it’s up to the church. When the church wakes up, abortion on demand will dissappear.
Are you listening, Rudy?
too bad… i guess i dont like being healthy.
well pisa, se still doesnt equate to an automatic pregnancy, and theres still the issue of bodily autonomy, etc, it isnt as simple as saying sex is a contract to pregnancy, even if thats true, abortion would still be legal
Wow, Im popular… cool 8-) XD
Nnow if only I could actually find a girlfriend down here. I hate living in a town full of shallow snobs >
*sigh* This again??? According to the English language… Abortion IS NOT murder…
what about those who do not believe in the bible or God? DO you have any idea how many people in the world have different religions than you?
“If pro-choice woman were truly for woman, they would be abhorred at the thought of abortion.”
What is your definition of a real woman?
Last time I checked I have breasts, a vagina and I’m pretty sure a uterus and ovaries…pretty sure I’m a woman.
lol Where do you live Dan? (state)
Well I KNOW I’m a woman… I KNOW I’m pro-choice… and I KNOW I’m a real Christian… Just cuz you don’t like it doesn’t mean it’s not true…
the dirtiest liberal state of all…
that had a republican mormon govenor…
MA
yes, I had to make that big a deal of it :D
I am pro-choice and I am a woman. I made a choice to carry my pregnancy on and raise my daughter. That doesnt mean that because It was the right choice for me that it will be the right choice for another woman. Do you believe, hisman, that all pro-choice women have abortions?
Okay before I go digging can I just address this rather quickly:
Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorders (FASD); Fetal Alcohol Syndrome–If you think you might be or know you are in fact pregnant, what are you doing drinking?
And as I skim information on this it seems the one who really gets the crap end of the deal is the child not the mother.
What do you know abotu pregnancy pisa?
Guys, it’s night time now, I’ve got to get some sleep even though I love jousting with all of you and rather be in bed with my wife.
Rae, pleae clarify your question as I don’t see a connection.
I’ll be going through MA in a lil over a week… Staying overnight… It was nice last time I was there…
Pisaquari (cool screenname by the way): My mom almost died after giving birth to me due to hemorrhaging from a prolapsed uterus. I was not in anyway in danger from this (as it happened after I was born, while she was delivering the placenta). My mom got the crap end of the deal on that one.
Emily,
You don’t fool me at all.
His Man, in the bible the punishment for making a woman miscarry is a monetary fine of what the husband deems appropriate, seems like it was barely a crime then to begin with.
“it isnt as simple as saying sex is a contract to pregnancy, even if thats true, abortion would still be legal”
how so?
this is a joke… i cant believe that someone could believe all he has said, he has walked around in circles proving himself wrong over and over again… yet doesnt see his wrongs… too bad
His Man:
What is your definition of a real woman, as you don’t seem to think pro-choice women are real women.
… Whatever that means… You think I care if you believe I’m a Christian or not? Cuz you are not that important to my self esteem sorry…
Dan,
That’s your proof?
If I lived back then and someone made my wife miscarry, well, I think you know what I would do.
Are you saying that God doesn’t value a life in the womb?
His Man: Are you saying you’d kill the man that made you wife miscarry?
That’s not very christian of you.
pisa, no one can take control of your organs unless you waive your rights to them, even if pregnancy were comehow a garunteed pregnancy, there is still no consent for the fetus to take over the womb of the mother. There was no waiver signed giving the fetus your womb. Consent can be revoked after the se act takes place. So if its garunteed pregnancy and the mother revokes the consent to se but gets pregnant, the fetus would still have no legal right to be there. It would be simple for someone to just say that and be able to get the abortion. Someone who needs an organ donation (say a kidney) cant just take it from you, you have to waive your rights to your kidney, same goes for the fetus in the womb, no waiving of rights? then the fetus can be removed, which most often results in death.
sorry if its incoherent or jumps around, its 3AM here, lol
I’m so bad at arguing the bodily integrity argument… Even though it’s the best out there…
No His Man, Im saying that abortion would have been considered a minor crime. It was mentioned no other time in the Bible aside from that verse, unless of course you falsely call it murder. Fetuses had low value back then, it was the actual kid they wanted, actually a kid old enough to work on the family plot. Fetuses were obviously not seen as a full life, or eye for an eye would have been applied.
“What do you know abotu pregnancy pisa?”
Really, how does one answer that question? I’ve taken my own free time for the past few years to try and understand fetal development/ethical issues surrounding the abortion debate/stem cell research. My mother had two abortions before me and a good friend of the family works at an abortion clinic so I get those stories as well.
I was raised in a pro-choice environment so I have more information to “support” the other side.
Why? What do you know?
“Pisaquari (cool screenname by the way”
Thanks Rae–Sun in Pisces and moon in Aquarius
Lindsey,
I have tried to answer all of the accusations and questions on this post. One against many.
That’s OK, I’ve got the truth on my side and I won’t buckle.
When I ask for questions to be answered I get attacked, because my logic cannot be refuted by pro-death truth, becaseu there is no such thing. I only get attacked by telling me I’m blaspemous, an abusive father, a woman hater, ad infinitum….all for just trying to save a some innocent children in the womb. Why, and this goes to the core of the post, it’s about power and when you threaten people’s power, the fangs come out.
Who’s been walking in circles?
Anyone reading the chronology of these posts can see how inane pro-deathers’ arguments are for abortion.
Rae,
Good try. He’d know in a very special way that he did a vey bad thing. What would you do to such a man if he killed your baby? I know, you’d call him a name?
Dan,
To repeat….Are you saying that God doesn’t value a life in the womb? How do you glean that from this passage?
His Man, your arguments were repeated before ours were I believe. the Pro Life argument seems to simply be its a kid, its alive and should be given birth to, which could certainly fall under slaver in a way, but thats a whole different story. The pro choice side has far more different reasons and has more logic behind it than pro life.
His Man, you can glean that apparently they dont believe even God views it as a full life, as the death punishment is only applied if the mother is killed, the fetus has a monetary value whereas the wife does not.
His Man, it is believed within that passage that it is no valued as a full life like the mothers is, otherwise the sentence to death would apply to the mother as well as the forced miscarriage, but it is not. It is not valued as greatly. Does that mean there was no value to it then, or now? Nope, but the mother’s rights come before that of the fetus.
Dan,
Sorry, it’s more than “a kid”. It’s an immortal soul created in the image and likeness of God. This is Basic Christianity 101.
No human, not the mother, not the abortionist, for any reason has a right to interfere in the implied intent of the Creator. If He wants to terminate the pregnancy, He’ll do it, otherwise, it’s hands off.
I disagree totally with your statement that the pro-life side has more logic. Perhaps I would buy into that if indeed there were no God, if it weren’t a person, if it didn’t have a soul, etc., however, since those are lies, their arguments fall.
Abortion is about power, and unfortunately demonstrated against defenseless, innocent human beings, that’s it. The sad part is how a lot of people have been deceived and bought into it. And to counter, it is a systematic rule set, placed in motion by those who lust for power and money. But, that’s changing. The truth always wins out. That’s how I started and how I’ll end this post, have a great night.
“I disagree totally with your statement that the pro-life side has more logic.”
Freudian Slip His Man?
*lol* I think so Kate….
If all babies were test tube babies then yes… Abortion would not exist… The baby could be handed over to ANYONE to care for… Not just the mother
“If all babies were test tube babies then yes… Abortion would not exist… ”
Do you think there are some parents who would not want the idea of their “child” living? If all babies were test tube babies does that remove the mother’s choice as to the termination of the fetus?
Thought for the day: What does Wittgenstein say about abortion?
Correction! Not”fetus” (late night!) I mean fertilized egg, early stages..you know (anyone like statistics? I have a questionnaire entitled “exam” you can fill out…I pay big bucks…)
None that I’ve ever talked to feel that way… They just did not want to carry a pregnancy to term for whatever reason… And I think it would because in my opinion the abortion debate hinges completely on the bodily integrity argument… Once that is settled… There is no more argument… I’ve heard MANY pro-choicers talking about developing a way to remove a fetus and implant it elsewhere…
But let’s say, for the sake of 4AM argument, that the women didn’t want the child to even be born (hated the paternal father or something)–could she still choose to end the life?
I’ll do it but no guarantees as to the results… I suck at math lol
In my veiw… No… But not all pro-choicers would agree with me there…
Hi SoMG *waves*
To His Man:
Could I ask you to do me a favor? I know that it’s not conventional, but I’d like to promote critical thinking.
Could you try out atheism and blasphemy for a moment, see whether it works for you, and if not, God will just forgive you and it’s all over? I won’t even ask you to say that God doesn’t exist. We can confine ourselves to a particular small set of blasphemy. Just say out loud, “The Holy Spirit has never done any miracles and doesn’t exist. Screw the Holy Spirit.”
Did you do it? Does that seem like a particularly evil and damning act? Do you really feel like anything bad has happened to you?
Most importantly, did you feel empowered? ‘Cause I don’t.
I ask you this because it refutes one of your points directly: That people are pro-choice for the sake of power. People don’t disobey God to feel powerful — and if you actually said that thing out loud, I don’t think you would feel particularly empowered.
So your entire case is, observationally, collapsed like a house of cards.
Go on. Say it. I dare you. Prove to yourself that you’re wrong, and open up a new horizon or two, where pro-life and pro-choice is a matter more complicated than just religious convictions.
Kate, thanks for catching my typo, which by definition is not a Freudian slip as if implying I agreed with abortion, c’mon. So for the sake of clarity I will repreat my post to Dan so that you and others like you don’t think that somehow you got me. No, abortion is murder, everytime, everywhere, under all circumstances.
“Dan,
Sorry, it’s more than “a kid”. It’s an immortal soul created in the image and likeness of God. This is Basic Christianity 101.
No human, not the mother, not the abortionist, for any reason has a right to interfere in the implied intent of the Creator. If He wants to terminate the pregnancy, He’ll do it, otherwise, it’s hands off.
I disagree totally with your statement that “pro choice side has far more different reasons and has more logic behind it than pro life”. Perhaps I would buy into that if indeed there were no God, if it weren’t a person, if it didn’t have a soul, etc., however, since those are lies, their arguments fall.
Abortion is about power, and unfortunately demonstrated against defenseless, innocent human beings, that’s it. The sad part is how a lot of people have been deceived and bought into it. And to counter, it is a systematic rule set, placed in motion by those who lust for power and money. But, that’s changing. The truth always wins out. That’s how I started and how I’ll end this post, have a great night.”
I would say yes. For me it’s not only that I don’t want to be pregnant, I don’t want a child. So even if it could be taken from my womb and developed elsewhere if the end result would be that I had to take care of a baby then I would be against that. If however it could be taken from my womb, developed somewhere else and then put up for adoption, I think that’s something I would support.
“But not all pro-choicers would agree with me there…”
Why
Chris,
You give me no choice but to stay awake now.
Because not everyone supports everything the same… Not all lifers support the same things as I’ve seen so… I just assume some choicers won’t agree with me… Not sure but better to be safe than sorry…
Okay. Are you going to take me up on my challenge?
I think I answered your question pisaquari a couple posts up. If not please repete original question.
So for those still going: if it could be a test tube baby with no regards to “bodily integrity” and the mother could have nothing to do with it thence forward would you vote for a bill that said the woman could not abort?
I would indeed… Because as I said… I find the only valid argument to be the bodily integrity argument… and this situation would make that argument null & void…
Most pro-choicers would prefer a situation where the fetus could be safely removed and raised without dying.
However, policy support for or against such a policy would depend on how it compared to abortion. I mean, suppose the option existed, but it cost ten million dollars. Clearly, since no woman can afford it, it’s not actually a viable alternative; so abortion needs to remain an option. Or, suppose that such an option existed, but it could not be performed on diabetics for some reason. Then, for diabetics, this option doesn’t exist; so pro-choicers would want abortion to still be a valid option for people with diabetes.
Very good points Chris… Thank you
I guess I would. But honestly, (((and I will admit this is a bad arguement for abortion, so it’s not an arguement for abortion it’s more just a question)))….where are all the children that would then not be aborted, but instead be born end up going/living? Who would take care of them? Aren’t there already enough unloved, unwanted children in the world? Just a thought…don’t hate on me, I’m just wondering
yes, that’s a good point Chris
Chris Drost:
Are you the guy who thinks hell doesn’t exist? If so, it’s really hard to take you seriously.
Why are people “pro-choice then”? I know you can’t answer becaseu that would contradict your assertion that it’s a really complicated issue.
Well, serial killing is complicated too. Do I dismiss that? The mystery of iniquity, who can understand?
It’s simple: If a baby is a person at conception, then killing it is murder. You got enuf inof to tell me when it’s a person and when it’s not? I know, insert smoke and mirrors, it’s complicated, does that help?
For me, if it’s always murder, so don’t ask me to betray my conscience.
It’s not so much saying that abortion is about power, I think it has something to do with the act and the result, a dead baby that God intended to grow into a person made in His image and likeness, all for the sake of maintaining a false right. Seems like a power swap to me.
Right Chris but such is the case with most anything. I mean “all things equal” because I’m trying to get at the heart of the matter and as the nigth dwindles this bodily integrity issue seems to be the crux for so many.
I’ve heard so many pro-choicers argue that it’s a “woman’s right” to choose whether or not to keep her child but if it’s an inborn right then why worry about defending with “bodily integrity”?
His Man: I’m not a Christian. I’m a prophet of a small eclectic religious movement based in upstate New York. (I’m also a Discordian Pope, whatever that counts for.)
Are you going to take up my challenge, or not? Won’t God forgive you if you’re right?
Let me ask you a further question, and I want you to think about this carefully for a second: What makes us special?
The thing with unwanted children seems so back and forth to me. One second I’m reading reports on how many are out there getting pushed around in foster homes, the next it’s all these parents wanting children than can’t seem to find any. It’s a system in need of improvement. China just raised its standards for adoption. I think 55 (?) may be the age max and parents with facial deformities or histories of mental illness (i.e. taking antidepressants) are not eligible to adopt.
pisaqauri: There are many tangents to be considered. One of them is the tangent that I’m probably about to lead His Man on, because I think we all roughly understand the faculty which makes us morally special. Another one is the fact that the fetus is not, in fact, innocent — if it is unwanted, then it is violating a woman’s right to bodily integrity.
Abortion is a twisted and complicated issue, where others are not. It is dredged in competing metaphors — the one is of sperm and ova, and fertilized embryos; which certainly don’t seem to be people so much as miniature congregated cells. At the other end of pregnancy is the metaphorical value of the matured infant. Mixed in is the metaphor of innocence, and the metaphor of bodily integrity. It is hard to boil it down to a simple yes or no, even for most pro-choicers.
(And sorry for misspelling your name.)
One problem with adoption, and why there are so many children out there and at the same time so many people looking to adopt is because people want *newborns* they don’t want the 4 year olds that have been in the system for a few years. They don’t want to take in young teens who so desperately need a real home. This is not true for everyone, however the majority of people looking to adopt want new born babies. So that is the main reason for the large number of children in the system and the number of people looking to adopt. Frankly people are selfish, and there just aren’t enough newborns to go around. It’s pretty sad.
“if it is unwanted, then it is violating a woman’s right to bodily integrity.”
I responded to this earlier. I will C/P:
“That being did not
That is only true pisaquari, if you consider a fetus to be a person with the same rights as the mother. Which most pro-choicers would not agree with.
Chris:
Thanks for your forthrightness. Used to live Rochester and I feel sorry for you. Glad I got out. Not much else to do there in the winter but suck weed and wish for the two days of summer to come so I could go to Niagra Falls and not freeze. That sense of isolation does affect the brains of some people that live there, as evidenced by your post.
That’s really manly of you to try to get me to blaspheme the Holy Spirit though, wow, that’s a good one. I see satan’s calling out the big guns or should I say, the little guns? Is this some sort of gang ritual or something? You know, kind of like gang banging? You get points for this? Sorry, won’t happen. I love Him too much.
Here’s a quote from the Spirit’s sword that I thought you could use: Matthew 12:37, “For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”
That is only true pisaquari, if you consider a fetus to be a person with the same rights as the mother. Which most pro-choicers would not agree with.
Sorry that posted twice. Oopsies
Whether it consented to be brought to life or to be in this woman’s uterus seems irrelevant. After all, the woman also was brought to life and lived in someone’s uterus; so if there was some sort of ethical breach here, then both the mother and the fetus suffer from it.
As for whether it consents to being terminated, I’m not sure that matters. If a murderer is killed by the police, then he probably didn’t *consent* to being killed. But he was infringing upon others’ rights.
Moreover, I’m not convinced that the fetus has a right to bodily autonomy; much like I’m not convinced that the fetus has a right to life.
His Man: What are you going on about? Big guns? Little guns? It’s an innocent little challenge. Now stop evading it and wasting my time. What’s wrong with considering, even for a second, that you might be wrong? What can I say? I’m not Satan. I’m just an odd prophet.
Also, you’re now dodging my earlier question, so I’m going to ask it again. What makes us special?
“That is only true pisaquari, if you consider a fetus to be a person with the same rights as the mother. Which most pro-choicers would not agree with.”
I don’t agree. If we are to say that test tube babies would eliminate “bodily integrity” issues from the mothers (sans your grand exceptions about costs and diabetics, etc) then we admit that the being has its own bodily integrity by allowing it to live sans the mother.
I understand a fertilized egg cannot vote, drive a car, much less speak–however, if we agree that it is allowed a chance at life outside the mother’s womb then we assume the being has its own bodily integrity.
It’s not that it eliminates bodily integrity issues; it’s that the woman can exercise her right to bodily integrity without killing this fetus.
Chris Drost:
Guess you didn’t cath my humor? Sorry, it’s late.
OK, what makes us special is God, only God, Him and Him alone.
All right. Do you recognize that this is a religious viewpoint?
Religious no, spiritual yes.
“Whether it consented to be brought to life or to be in this woman’s uterus seems irrelevant. After all, the woman also was brought to life and lived in someone’s uterus; so if there was some sort of ethical breach here, then both the mother and the fetus suffer from it.”
The thing is bodily intergity keeps getting rooted in consent. If a woman consents to sex, knowing it could cause a pregnancy, that’s way more connected to “consent to pregnancy” than a being that has no choice as to the design/nature of pregnancy, the fact that it must gestate, and be born through her. It did not consent to that process. I did not consent to that process. *Thats how it works*.
So my point is if you know how the process works, still utilize an act that could cause that outcome, you have consented more to that outcome than the being because of your knowledge position.
It’s 5 AM. I’m going to sleep but I’ll respond in the morning (afternoon!)–whenever I awake.
Thanks for the engaging debate you all–nice when it gets down to the specifics–stuff really gets needled out.
PEACE
and goodnight.
You really don’t believe that “God makes us special” is fundamentally religious in nature? It’s a concrete claim about what God does or has done — it fits any definition in any dictionary you’ll find.
: : : “So my point is if you know how the process works, still utilize an act that could cause that outcome, you have consented more to that outcome than the being because of your knowledge position.”
It is worth asking right now, if a woman is having sex with a man, does she have the right to say “no, stop” …?
She knows how the process works. She clearly started having sex. She has clearly consented to the outcome, and clearly contributed to the state of affairs. Yet, she has the right to say, “No, I don’t want you in my body any more.” So, again, I don’t see why the criterion you’re setting forward are morally relevant.
Personally I think if you’re trying to argue against someone who use religion to back up their arguments then it’s extremely difficult, if not impossible to convince them to change their mind. That’s why I feel arguing with people like His Man is fruitless.
As for me, I’m both nonreligious and pro-choice. I’m not pro-choice because I don’t think an unborn baby isn’t a “life” yet (I still have yet to make up my mind on that one myself). I am pro-choice because, really, if you think about it, would it be better for a baby that is unwanted and unable to be cared for by its parents to have to be born and live through a painful existence, with a very high chance of developing psychological problems over its life? Or would it be better to spare both the fetus and the parents the pain of having to deal with all that crap?
I also believe that women should legally have the choice whether or not to abort because, if abortion were made illegal, illegal abortions would go way up and women would not only be breaking the law, but also putting their own lives in danger.
Nick Bush:
You said, “I am pro-choice because, really, if you think about it, would it be better for a baby that is unwanted and unable to be cared for by its parents to have to be born and live through a painful existence, with a very high chance of developing psychological problems over its life? Or would it be better to spare both the fetus and the parents the pain of having to deal with all that crap?”
You can’t answer any of those questions you asked because you don’t have the answers and to make an attempt at answering such questions with the life of a baby in the balance would be the height of arrogance. You’d be guessing at best.
Therefore, what criteria other than a moral criteria can you use?
Very simply, abortion is murder, therefore, it is wrong, every time, everywhere, under all circumstances.
Pro-choicers can’t win the religious argument, they know it, so they choose not to engage in it. By default, they lose the argument as a result.
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