Well, yes, there’s also this “choice”…
GujaretGlobal.com of India reported this yesterday:
A young man tried to commit suicide when his lover refused for abortion. Both were in love for more than six months and a fortnight back father of the 22 year old unemployed Hiren Desai had thrown him out of the house.
Hiren consumed poison in the presence of the girl and his one friend in the law garden. He lived in Ghodasar area of the city. The girl took the youth to the VS Hospital where his condition is said to be serious.
Hiren and Sejal met each other about six month back and they developed intimate relationship. In the meantime, Sejal became pregnant. Families of both did not like the relationship. Hiren’s father severed relations with him and sejal’s parents sent her to Vadodara.
They, however, remained in touch and met in Law garden. Hiren asked her for abortion, she refused. He tried to commit suicide.
Perhaps this fellow had just learned his baby was a girl.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
“Perhaps this fellow had just learned his baby was a girl.”
Jill, I can’t believe you would have the audacity to say that. That is disgustingly racist and extremely disrespectfull. You made a terrible implication based off of a sterotype. I have many, many Indian friends and I’m sure that there are Indian people who read this and would be extremely insulted.
The idea that a girl child is worth less than a boy child is an ancient one, that for the most part, has been dropped. It might still happen, as there are some truely sick people in this world but it is not common practice, don’t make the assumption that it is because they don’t make news stories about parents who don’t kill their female children.
I have no idea how, as not only a christian but as I woman you can say that and not be embarassed. I’m embarassed for you, I sincerely hope that you apologize for this
I realize that men are “worth more” (in terms of bloodlines that is) than women but why do they feel they have to keep the ratio so low?
I’m just curious.
if you noticed what I said, the idea that a woman is worth less isn’t common anymore. Yes most families do want a son to carry on the family name and properties, but I’m almost 100% sure there’s no law or religious belief that a girl child should be killed. People who do that are just sick.
Constentina, it is still prevalent in many countries, China being the best eample I can think of off the top of my head. The number of children a couple can have is limited, and they will often gice the girls up for adoption or abandon them until the family gets a male heir so that the bloodline can continue.
Constentina, “It is not a common practice”? Did you read the link I provided?
Female feticide and infanticide is a profound crisis, not just in India but also China. News organizations have chronicled this for some time. I have written on it, too. See here and here.
In India it is estimated 500,000 girls are aborted each year. They say 10 million Indian girls have been killed over the past two decades. The ratio of boys to girls is now 1000:927, and in some places in India 1000:750.
Google “ratio boys girls india.”…
You’ll see this:
“A stage may soon come where it would become extremely difficult, if not impossible, to make up for the missing girls,” says Fran?s Farah, country representative of the UN Population Fund. (http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/327/7422/1007)
or this:
Dr Joe Verghese of the CMA says: “Our study revealed that if the first child is a girl, then 50% of female foeticide takes place when the mother is pregnant the second time around. This goes up to 70% when the woman is expecting her third child. Our study has shown that in such cases, only 219 girls are being born for every 1,000 boys.” (http://www.infochangeindia.org/features290.jsp)
Educate yourself, Constentina. Legalized abortion has wrought this, the greatest irony: that which was supposed to liberate women is being used to kill them.
I’m aware of that, however I’m not sure if that’s the case in India, and even if it was, that was still a awful, malicious thing for Jill to say.
Thanks for the information Jill I see that I didn’t have all the information, however Feminicide has been going on for ages, saying that legalized abortion has wroght this is completely wrong. People have been killing infant girls for a much longer time. and illegalizing Abortion isn’t going to fix it
BUT, that was not my point. If you didn’t notice, I was calling on you for making a racial slur. Maybe that’s why he decided to kill himself, it isn’t clear from the report you gave, and you don’t know that. But implying that he wanted to commit suicide because of the gender of his unborn child, just because he comes from a country where feminicide is practiced, is sort of like saying that all germans are Nazis. You can’t judge people for that.
Be sure that purposeful killing of girls is the case in India, Constentina. Combined with 100 million missing Chinese girls, the phenomenon is causing incalculable woes in East Asia.
Because of it, sex trafficking is rampant in Thailand and North Korea. I have read there are more missing girls from China, India, and Pakistan than there are in the entire country of Thailand.
You apparently have no idea how serious this is. Stop worrying about your friends’ hurt feelings and get involved.
Constentina, you’re welcome.
“legalized abortion has wrought this, the greatest irony: that which was supposed to liberate women is being used to kill them.”
Not really, Jill. The people who are killing female infants would continue to kill female infants regardless if abortion was around or not. The only difference is, they’re doing it while she’s still a fetus instead of abandoning her, suffocating her, or burying her alive.
Getting rid of abortion will not help one bit. There just needs to be a massive cultural change, where women are just as important to a family as men.
Stephanie, you’re quite simply ignorant and blind. I cannot believe the excuses you people continue to make for abortion. You disgust me right now.
I would like proof that legalized abortion causes feminicide, please? As this is a pervasive cultural issue, it would likely occur whether or not abortion was legal. Prior to medical technology that allowed the determiniation of the gender of the fetus, women usually abandoned their female babies. It isn’t as though abortion suddenly caused feminicide, or even made it easier.
In light of this, I would like specific statistics that prove not only correlation but also causation. Also, Constentina was correct: that was quite a racist thing to say. You saw that the man was Indian and jumped to the conclusion that he wanted the fetus aborted because it was female. Pretty judgemental.
Actually, I am involved. but ya, know that must come as a shock to you because clearly, pro-choicers sit around and do nothing but being selfish right? I am completely aware of how serious feminicide is. Just because we don’t share the same opinion on abortion, doesn’t mean I’m stupid, and it doesn’t mean that I’m not someone who fights for human rights, so don’t assume that
And way to avoid the subject. Are you honestly saying there was nothing wrong with that racial slur you made?
Will you people GROW UP and quit staring at your navels? You’re whining about hurt feelings and being judgmental while preborn and postborn baby girls are being slaughtered by the millions and little six-year-old girls sold as sex slaves to pigs? Your ignorance and self-centeredness is truly disgusting.
Will you people GROW UP and quit staring at your navels? You’re whining about hurt feelings and being judgmental while preborn and postborn baby girls are being slaughtered by the millions and little six-year-old girls sold as sex slaves to pigs? Your ignorance and self-centeredness is truly disgusting.
Right on, Jill!
How can you say that Bethany, do you think there was nothing wrong with that racial slur? You guys are christian aren’t you? Racism isn’t christian
I find it kind of troubling that these girls aren’t in the least concerned about a man,so concerned about himself and HIS feelings, that he completely disregards his lovers feelings, and his baby’s life, and wants to destroy the baby against his lovers wishes….they have no problem with the fact that he was basically having a temper tantrum in front of his lover, emotionally and mentally abusing her by eating poison to show her how much he hated the idea of her keeping the baby (just imagine how much that must have hurt HER feelings)… but no, you’re “racist” because you made a small, sarcastic remark about this extremely selfish man…which really is not such a startling comment anyway, when you look at the facts.
Yes, what this man did was selfish.
Yes, India’s practice is wrong.
But that last remark was completely out of line.
What if she was right?
“Stephanie, you’re quite simply ignorant and blind. I cannot believe the excuses you people continue to make for abortion. You disgust me right now.”
WTF? Sorry, Jill, I am anything but ignorant and blind. I see the issues that are behind the killings of female infants. Abortion didn’t cause those cultures to kill off their females. The culture did that.
I don’t think you read my post correctly. Where and what excuse did I give for abortion?
The comment you just made just leads me to believe that you just didn’t have anything else to say. I have been nothing but polite to you, and you respond with a personal insult. Way to go.
Not really, Jill. The people who are killing female infants would continue to kill female infants regardless if abortion was around or not. The only difference is, they’re doing it while she’s still a fetus instead of abandoning her, suffocating her, or burying her alive.
Getting rid of abortion will not help one bit. There just needs to be a massive cultural change, where women are just as important to a family as men.
Part of their culture is abortion, Stephanie.
The cultural change that needs to happen is that they realize that every child is important, not just the males, not just the females, not just the born children, not just the children who are pretty, not just the smart children, every child should be regarded as precious. When this happens, when THIS cultural change happens, then you will see infanticide dropping, you’ll see abortions dropping, you’ll see all kinds of other crimes dropping. Of course, I realize this is not likely to happen, because there will always be people like you, Stephanie, in this world. People who believe life can be treated with respect only when the life doesn’t get in your way.
Bethany, the importance of male children in their culture stemmed before abortion. They simply had abandoned children or killed them after they were born.
How is that different from abortion? Oh yeah that’s right, fetuses aren’t human beings in your eyes. But to me, I see no difference.
“Part of their culture is abortion, Stephanie. ”
No, it is not. Seeing girls and women as a second-class citizen, unimportant, and as property is part of their culture. Indian and Chinese culture values males over females, which is why a lot of families kill their girl infants and abort female fetii to get a male heir.
That is mindset is what needs to be changed. We are talking about a specific issue regarding feminicide, not abortion in general.
“If course, I realize this is not likely to happen, because there will always be people like you, Stephanie, in this world. People who believe life can be treated with respect only when the life doesn’t get in your way.”
You, like Jill, are leading me to believe that you have nothing else to say and also responded with insults.
Thanks for making assumtions about me when you know nothing about me at all.
“What if she was right?”
What if she’s not?
I don’t understand why killing or aborting females is so rampant. India doesn’t have a one child policy, you are free to have as many children as you want, but the government would like to get it down to about 3. If you found out you were having a girl, you could just hope for a boy next time.
Maybe they want a male first-born?
I suspect that’s what it is Stephanie. Also female children can be more expensive in countries like that because of dowries etc. Also I think inheritance is largely patrilineal, therefore Males would be more valued
Where is this so-called racial slur?I don’t see it!Even if I did see it,I cannot imagine it bothers any of you that much, that your all scolding Jill.You guys are here defending murder,remember?
I don’t see it so much as a racial slur as much as it was a very uncalled for snide remark.
I don’t defend murder, as murder tends to be on the illegal side.
And to make things clear: Infanticide is wrong, but a common practice. Many african cultures still practice forms of infanticide (for example twins are left to die when born as they are seen as “unnatural”) and infanticide is rampant in China and India.
And as Dan said above, even without abortions, they’d wait till the baby was born and then kill it once they found out the gender. Once people were able to get access to things like ultrasounds to determine the fetus’ gender then sex-selection abortion began.
It’s also interesting to note that abortion is illegal in India except in cases of the woman’s health is at risk and rape, yet abortions are rampant.
Note I’m just saying what happens, not that I condone it, because I don’t.
“Where is this so-called racial slur?I don’t see it!”
Last line. She implies that the man attempted suicide because he found out the fetus was female because he is Indian. I’m sure it wasn’t intentional (just a bad joke) but it bothers me that she avoids the issue and doesn’t apologize for it.
“You guys are here defending murder,remember?”
And you’re defending forced pregnancy, remember?
Just to be clear, that comment was meant to be sarcastic. =/
Jill, I’m with you – there is way too much correct-political-thinking used to obfuscate issues………. I recommend that you test pro-choicers who wish to post here by asking for a listing of preferences that will merit their child’s death. I doubt many will leave for very long because they wish to spread-their-words. Many, no doubt also visit pro-choice web-sites, but it gets boring when all that is reflected back is the same bs as they have been mouthing…. truly nauseous!
./////////////////////
This situation is throughout India, even in very Roman Catholic enclaves. Decades ago India mounted a self-imposed family size reduction. If you wish any old-age security then a male family is best … they are usually paid better + the Indian tradition of dowry is paid by the female’s family.
So taken together – where abortion is the norm in
family planning (promoted by highly esteemed university profs) + ultra-sound imaging is used to detect the sex of an offspring … girls are dead meat!
Less, yes, your comment has been deleted. It was out of line. Now behave as maturely as you claim to be and move on. Your reposting and my deleting is growing tiresome. Banning is next. Your call.
Jill: Explain why my comment is out of line, as you claim it is. I pointed out that you called me ignorant, self centered, and disgusting, despite the fact that you claim to delete posts that call names. Please explain why pointing this out is completely out of line?
Less, your post that I deleted went farther than that. As for stating, as I did earlier today, “your ignorance and self-centeredness is truly disgusting,” it was. This isn’t fun and games, Less. This is life or death discussion. Someday you’ll get it.
There is no racial slur.I’ve read this a few times.
Excuse me. I do not understand why you keep deleting posts the deal with the fact that YOU insulted ME. I disagree with your opinion on abortion, Jill, but I would defend to the death your right to say it. I have NEVER insulted you, under ANY circumstances, despite your continued attacks against me.
Perhaps you didn’t mean the comment as a racial slur: we all say stupid things sometimes. We’re all human. But instead of stating that you didn’t mean it like that and allowing us all to move on, you insult those who comment upon it, call us disgusting and ignorant, and then delete posts the disagree with you.
The problem for you is, Less, I did not make a racial slur. I did not say anything stupid. I did mean it. The story was from INDIA. And in INDIA there is a catastrophic phenomenon of aborting baby girls. I engaged in sarcasm to point that out and hopefully get a conversation going. Just because you’re liberal and don’t believe in sarcasm is your problem, not mine.
You, my dear, are indeed engaged in navel watching while Rome is burning. Or is that a racial slur?
What does her being liberal have to do with sarcasm? Why is being liberal seen as such a negative thing?
Jill, you assumed that because the man was INDIAN (a race) he would want to abort a female baby. I agree that this is a culture-wide problem. But making this assumption based upon the man’s race (Indian) is indeed racist, unless you have more information about the case than we do.
There are a thousand explainations for why the man did as he did. Premarital sex is a GREAT stigma in India: that could have been the cause of distress. He could be bipolar and the pregnancy could have been a trigger for a depressive episode. He could simply have been immature and known of no other way to deal with his impending fatherhood. The point is, we simply don’t know. Making an assumption based upon his race is simply wrong.
so liberals have no sense of sarcasm?
tell that to me and my mom. My father may agree with you though, who knows.
As for the racial slur bit, I have to say that I personally didnt see it as intentional, nor had I really thought about it like that until I had read it a few times. I would hope something of that sort would be unintended and simplyan absence of thought on how some people may view it.
It wasn’t really until she called me disgusting and ignorant in response to a previous post that I thought she might be serious. I tend to hope, as you do, that it was simply a poorly phrased sarcastic remark. If Jill would simply clarify that, I would much prefer to move on.
Less, it was intentional use of sarcasm. You don’t get it. You don’t want to get it.
Dan, you didn’t see it because it wasn’t there.
Less, it was thought out and nicely phrased, thank you. Are we clear?
Less, the difference is she did not call YOU disgusting…she called your ideas about abortion disgusting. And they really are.
As for “ignorant”, it simply means not informed.
Bethany, I’m quite informed about abortion: I would not debate about a subject that I am not informed about. You might think that my opinion is disgusting: that’s great, I don’t care. The purpose of this blog, as far as I’m aware is not to malign each other’s opnions, but rather to debate the reasons behind them.
Jill, I honestly don’t see how you can say something like that and not see it as incredibly inappropriate.
Less, give it up. Why not just agree that you disagree with Jill on this topic and let it go.
I find it so typical that you and other pro-aborts are so sensitive about a passing comment, yet so insensitive regarding something which matters- human life.
I guess I went a little too far with calling it a racial slur, I live in an area that is very multicultural, but there is also a huge problem with racism there, and I’m used to comments like that being much more vicious. It’s also hard to tell what people mean when they say things on the internet. I apologize for over-reacting and calling it a racial slur when in fact it was a careless remark.
However, just because it’s sarcastic comment doesn’t mean that it isn’t wrong. People make stupid comments not meaning things all the time, but it still offends people. What you said was offensive whether you meant it to be or not. You may have been trying to start a discussion about feminicide, but you started it in the wrong way.
I actually had a post that stated that I would prefer to move on: unfortunately, Jill deleted it. I would much prefer to disagree. This isn’t something we’re going to agree with. It’s very possible that Jill is simply not someone who thinks about racism (not meant badly, most who haven’t been affected by it don’t), and it didn’t enter her mind that it would be offensive. I simply don’t know. I’d much rather get back to debating what we all came here to debate about.
Constentina, apology accepted. Thank you. Pleasant surprise.
Less, had your post said simply that, why would I have deleted it? It said more. Let’s move on.
You deleted it as it continued the debate regarding the comment: we both agree that this is a debate that should be brought to an end. So let us do just that.
In the first of a two-part report examining infanticide in India, CNN’s Satinder Bindra looks into the social environment that can drive parents to kill their baby girls.
Expensive, albeit illegal, bridal dowries threaten many parents of girls with bankruptcy.
Expensive, albeit illegal, bridal dowries threaten many parents of girls with bankruptcy.
more video VIDEO
In India each year, parents kill thousands of female babies because they believe girls are an economic drain.
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Pt. 2: State adopts infants’ cause
On CNN TV
? Live from the Headlines, 7 p.m.: In the first of a two-part report examining infanticide in India, CNN’s Satinder Bindra looks into the social environment that can drive parents to kill their baby girls.
SALEM, India (CNN) — Fifteen hours after a baby girl was buried alive by her father in central India, police managed to pull her out — and she was still alive.
Police say the baby survived because she had been buried among stones and there was enough space for her to breathe.
Every year, thousands of baby girls in India are murdered by their own parents.
Sociologists blame such killings on a widely held Indian belief that girls are an economic drain because families still have to pay expensive dowries at the time of their marriage.
Authorities have said that over the past few years, more than 4,500 female babies in India’s southern Salem district alone have been killed — by their own parents.
Social scientists say the severity of the problem of selective abortions is so bad, the country’s gender birth ratio shows there are 880 females for every 1,000 males.
Modern technology has only worsened the phenomena. While infanticide has long been practiced, female foeticide is a relatively new phenomenon.
Over the past decade, inexpensive access to ultrasound technology has led to many families determining the sex of an unborn child and then aborting it if it is found to be female.
New laws and an aggressive intervention program mean fewer girls in Salem are being murdered.
But the practice of female infanticide continues.
Officials in this south Indian city have put the word out to parents they will treat every suspicious infant death as a homicide.
Police, however, are still finding the shallow graves of babies and say more than a hundred female children here are killed by their parents every year.
A Salem woman sits crushing grain as she tells CNN she has to live the rest of her life with the pain and guilt of knowing she murdered her own new born baby girl.
“I wanted to keep the baby. But people around me said, ‘You have three daughters. Why do you want to have yet another one?’ How can I kill her, I asked?”
“They suggested giving the baby something that would kill her. So I got some tobacco leaves, mixed it with water and gave it to the baby. She died.”
In the southern Indian district of Salem, such murders are fairly common.
In this region alone officials say that over the past year about one hundred female children have been murdered by their own parents. Some were asphyxiated, others poisoned or starved and many just left to die in sewers and garbage dumps.
Perhaps this fellow had just learned his baby was a girl
This is the line that you thought was a racial slur?
Several paragraphs later someone listed 5 different reasons that this man wanted to end the pregnancy.
Were those racial slurs also? Isn’t it a racial slur to say “Oh well, he was Indian, and they frown on pre-marital sex, so that might be the reason?
The fact is baby girls are murdered in India.
The fact is this story is about a man who wants to kill his baby.
It makes perfect sense to speculate that he might possibly want to kill his baby because it is a girl.
I can guarantee you that if Jill hadn’t brought it up, I would have.
Not because I’m racist, but because it was a very real possibility.
It really doesn’t matter why he wanted to kill it. The point is life is veiwed as expendable to the prochoice side. Forcing a woman to have an abortion (killing her child), threatening to commit suicide ( killing himself) in a country known for killing baby girls.
It’s all disgusting, and all too real, and this is why we call it a culture of death!
Please note, I did NOT call ANYONE disgusting.
And Jill is right, it is ironic that you claim this is all about women’s rights, and the right that you fought for ending up killing women.
mk
Rae,
And to make things clear: Infanticide is wrong
why? In heavens name, why are 2 hours or 2 days or 2 weeks or 2 months, the difference between this being wrong and abortion being right?
While babies are amazing creatures, they don’t come with a little oven timer that dings and says “READY”.
They’re not cakes that are valuable when they are done.
Where is this magic moment that divides infanticide from personal autonomy?
mk
Where is this magic moment that divides infanticide from personal autonomy?
They’ll never answer because they can’t.
How did I miss this post? wow!
Trying to prove/correct a racial slur is more important than female infanticide? huh?
“And Jill is right, it is ironic that you claim this is all about women’s rights, and the right that you fought for ending up killing women.”
I believe this is called Karma.
Remember the post on Faustina? The Divine Mercy.
I believe this is called “Justice”.
mk
Where is this magic moment that divides infanticide from personal autonomy?
I believe that would be called viability, actually.
When is this exact magical moment called viability?
mk
Actually that’s kind of funny cuz right now on the other post they’re discussing how viability is a non -issue. Personal Autonomy is all that matters.
You guys gotta get your act together.
Again I ask…
Person?
Human?
Human Person?
Viable Person?
Comatose Person?
Brain Damaged Person?
Down Syndrome Person?
WHO ARE WE ALLOWED TO KILL….SOMEBODY GIVE ME A DEFINITIVE ANSWER…I’M LOSING MY MIND HERE….
mk
Actually that’s kind of funny cuz right now on the other post they’re discussing how viability is a non -issue. Personal Autonomy is all that matters.
Funny how their argument changes over and over as it is convenient for them.
Well, it would be funny if it weren’t so pathetic.
Bethany,
No one is changing their argument. Pro-choicers, like pro-lifers, will have different views of each side. It just means in some definitions, we disagree.
MK,
I can see why you believe it’s ironic. I was just pointing out that abortion isn’t the cause of Feminicide. It is the mindset of the culture that is doing that.
“Where is this magic moment that divides infanticide from personal autonomy?”
When that fetus is born, it becomes infanticide.
And before you jump on me with questions about a fetus a day before birth, let me remind you that abortions don’t happen during those times (right before birth) unless it is regarding the mother’s health. Less than 2% abortions happen after the 5th month (20th week).
I want to make it clear – I do not condone abortions in the third trimester unless the mother’s life is at stake.
Finally, I want to note that these are my views. Pro-choicers don’t always agree, just like pro-lifers don’t always agree. That’s how it is.
Stephanie,
Pro-choicers don’t always agree, just like pro-lifers don’t always agree.
Well, Steph, when it comes to strawberry jelly vs grape jelly, you’re right.
But when it comes to life issues we agree 100%. Life begins at conception. period. And life is sacred from conception till natural death. No exceptions.
We call this the “Seamless Garment”.
Some call it from “The Womb to the Tomb”
We all call it non-negotiable.
Which is why I get so confused when you guys can’t even agree on when you are allowed to kill someone.
mk
Mk: Than why is it that some pro-lifers will say that abortion is okay in the case of rape, or incest, while some say it’s absolutely never okay except when the mother might die, and some are against any form of abortion at all?
Stephanie,
It just means in some definitions, we disagree.
Yes, but you aren’t disagreeing the best way to perform an abortion.
You can’t even agree on the single most fundamental point.
What is life, and when does it begin.
It is the mindset of the culture that is doing that.
Yep, and we call it “The Culture of death
Whether it’s abortion, infanticide, euthanasia…
It all comes down to “A Culture of Life” vs “A Culture of Death”
mk
Less,
Than why is it that some pro-lifers will say that abortion is okay in the case of rape, or incest, while some say it’s absolutely never okay except when the mother might die, and some are against any form of abortion at all?
Because they aren’t really pro-life. As soon as you add an exception, you become pro choice.
They may not think so, but this is another thing that true pro-lifers agree on.
mk
MK,
“But when it comes to life issues we agree 100%. Life begins at conception. period. And life is sacred from conception till natural death. No exceptions.”
That’s not true. There are many pro-lifers that are not religious, and don’t view it that way. It’s naive to think that so many people will all agree with each other about a topic as controversial as this.
And since when did you decide who is a true pro-lifer?
Oops. Sorry about the double post.
Ask anyone on this post the definition of a pro lifer. And then ask every pro lifer on this site if they believe “no exceptions”…
You’re right there is no “hand book” of pro-lifers. But since we all agree, we don’t need one.
The minute you add, “Except for”, you cross over to the other side.
And it doesn’t matter what religion you belong to, or if you don’t belong to any. We all feel the same.
Probably the only place we differ is on capital punishment.
And I would venture to say that most pro-lifers fall on the same side of this issue also.
Nothing naive about it. WE just know what we believe. And what we stand for.
It would appear that your side is not quite so unified.
mk
MK,
Sorry. Not all pro-lifers agree, just like pro-choicers. I read other pro-life forums, and I see a range of views on the subject.
It’s contradicting when you say that there is no handbooks, then specify a rule that a person must follow to be pro-life.
The pro-choice side stands for the woman’s right to choose, whether that be keeping the baby, giving the baby up for adoption, or aborting a pregancy. That is what we all agree on.
Jill was not being racist, she was being minimally observant.
I think we’ve all agreed that it was a joke, but a tasteless one. I’m just wondering why she doesn’t apologize for any unintentional insult that was taken from her comment.
Stephanie –
I think what MK is saying (and I might be wrong) is that Pro Choicers cannot decide when a ‘fetus’ becomes a person. When is it NOT okay to do an abortion, or can it be done at ANY time during pregnancy. (Eliminating the health of the Mother, no need to go there since the AMA cannot even come up with a problem a woman would have that would be cause for a 3rd trimester abortion instead of premature delivery.) When it comes to Pro-Life we simply do not agree with abortion.
If anyone says they are Pro-Life but with exceptions they are not Pro-Life. They are Pro-Choice with limitations. It is still a ‘choice’ for a woman to abort or not abort in case of rape and incest. By definition you cannot be for life but say its okay to kill when….. They just like to say they are Pro-Life to make themselves feel better about the whole situation. (That is not intended to sound mean or condesending, couldn’t word it correctly.)
As for Jill apologizing, I guess I’m a bit confused. If everyone has to appologize for any unintentional comment than we would never get anything done because we would be appologizing every time we opened our mouths.
Teachers do these kind of remarks all the time. Especially in Philosophy and Theology. It is a way to make the students think. And in a sense, we are Jill’s ‘students’ since we are learning from her. I would never be able to find all the information that she has with news reports, TV shows, internet etc. I think that is why we are all here. And with any adult classroom setting, the teacher puts the thought out there and then the students group up and discuss it. Just like we do here. But thats just my opinion.