Mary Cheney had her baby
Announced today’s Chicago Tribune:
Vice President Dick Cheney’s daughter Mary delivered an 8-pound, 6-ounce baby boy on Wednesday, the first child for her and her partner of 15 years, Heather Poe.
Samuel David Cheney was born at 9:46 a.m. EDT at Sibley Hospital in Washington….
Congratulations to the Cheney family. My Feb. 7 post, entitled, “Mary Cheney: Pro-life,” bears repeating….
Despite my differences with Mary Cheney on other issues, I found her quote, from today’s New York Times, touching:
“When Heather and I decided to have a baby, it was not going to be the most popular decision ever,” Ms. Cheney said, referring to her partner of 15 years, Heather Poe.
She then gestured to her middle – any bulge disguised by a boxy jacket – and asserted: “This is a baby. This is a blessing from God. It is not a political statement. It is not a prop to be used in a debate by people on either side of an issue. It is my child.”
I don’t know if Mary Cheney suports abortion. I’ve never been able to find anything on that. Maybe someone else can. All I know is the terms she used in the NYT piece were not those of a hard-core pro-abort.
All that said, I conclude in agreement with Pete LaBarbera of Americans for Truth:
While we celebrate new life, we cannot celebrate homosexual parenting – which involves intentionally denying a child either a mom or a dad. In this case, young Samuel David – who, as a Cheney, will surely enjoy privileges and comforts greater than most children born in 2007 – will be missing an irreplaceable one: a father, to have as a loving guide, male authority, friend and role model as he grows from boy into man.
The pro-“gay” media have an odd way of reporting stories like this, as if both Mary Cheney and Heather Poe were involved in the baby’s conception. To do otherwise, I suppose, would call unwanted attention to the unnaturalness of the enterprise known as “gay parenting.” And yet, the truth remains: two homosexuals cannot create a baby. Heterosexuals – the people derided in the early days of “gay liberation” as “breeders” – must be involved.
[Photo #1 courtesy of the New York Times; photo #2 courtesy of the Sydney Morning Herald.]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Awww, it’s a cute baby. I’m very proud of them. Goodness knows they’ll be under attack for a very long time, but they have my support, at least.
Jill, I understand your pro-life views much more than your anti-gay ones. I’m happy for this couple.
And this part is just not correct:
“And yet, the truth remains: two homosexuals cannot create a baby. Heterosexuals – the people derided in the early days of “gay liberation” as “breeders” – must be involved.”
We have no idea whether the sperm in this case came from a heterosexual or a homosexual man.
(and we don’t really need to know do we?)
Who cares if the baby will be missing ” a father, to have as a loving guide, male authority, friend and role model as he grows from boy into man.”
A lot of kids are missing their straight fathers and a lot of kids do have fathers in their lives and just because they are straight it does not mean they are loving male authorities.
I dont see why people make such big deals out of stuff like this..the kid will want for nothing, has 2 loving parents, his grandfather is the freakin vice president! How much better can a baby have it??
Ah, iniquity, who can understand?
The question is, does God bless this situation by evidence in His Word?
Obviously not! Adam was a man, Eve was a woman.
Never once in the Bible has a gay marriage or parenting by a gay couple been the example. Marriage is a symbol of the relationship between Christ and His bride, the church. It is not to be messed with. The Holy Spirit did not impregnate Joseph with Emmanuel, although, if He wanted to He could have.
I ask my self as a father, what would I do if I was in this situation? Of course I would love my daughter and her baby, however, I would pray for the salvation of her endangered and deceived soul as she is not right with her Creator but in direct and utter rebellion towards Him. Oh the deceptio of wealth and privilege.
No, this baby is in a much worse state than a baby who is born to two impoverished Christian parents on the the plains of the Sudan for he has a much better chance of inheriting eternal life, infinitely more valuable than the temporal riches in this life.
My prayer is that this baby reject his mom’s and her room mate’s views on morality and embrace that of his godly grandparents.
Mr. Cheney, I feel for you.
I am very happy for them.
I know I am going to get in trouble with many people here, but I really don’t have a problem with this. *ducking as objects fly at my head*
I do believe that the homosexual lifestyle is wrong, but I don’t think they should be denied a family. I know that many here think that the child will be raised to accept a sinful lifestyle. But if you think about it there are so many other sinful lifestyles out there that are far worse. And accepting a lifestyle isn’t a sin. Now if they said they were going to raise him to be gay, I would have a problem with that. But just because he is raised by homosexual parents doesn’t mean he will be a homosexual.
All that being said, I do think that adoption would have been a better course of action. It is unnatural to have a baby in this matter. And I do not think it is fair to purposly deny the child his father. While in an adoption the child doesn’t have a mother or father and needs a loving home. I also do think a Mother and a Father is best, at least he will have two parents. This is far better than just one parent trying to shuffle between work, house, and child. And I also know many single mothers that live together. They do this to help each other with the bills and the kids.
Anywho – this is just my opinion. The Cheney’s have been blessed with a beautiful Grandson.
Valerie- I agree that adoption would have been a better course, but a homosexual couple has nearly an impossible time adopting in this country. It really should be changed :-/
“My prayer is that this baby reject his mom’s and her room mate’s views on morality and embrace that of his godly grandparents.”
HisMan…I think they’re more than roommates. And what’s wrong with their morality? The kid will grow up to be tolerant, and I don’t see anything wrong with that.
Erin…I agree! Homosexuals should be able to adopt, it’s ridiculous that they aren’t able to (or at least, less able than heterosexual couples). Think of all the kids that could be with loving parents!
HisMan thinks it’s beter to be born to Christian parents in a famine-stricken war zone like the Sudan? Here’s a child in the Sudan:
http://flatrock.org.nz/topics/odds_and_oddities/assets/wanting_a_meal.jpg
Nothing. Nothing prepared me for that photo … and I have been hanging around a pro-life blog. That is the most horrible, heart-wrenching thing I have ever seen in my entire life. I think Ms. Cheney’s child will count his blessings.
I dont understand what the big hoopla about this is. Who cares if the baby grows up without a father? There are thousands of children in America right now, who dont know their father or want nothing to do with him (I am one of them). I dont see you “fighting for the morality”. This baby will not grow up in poverty, or ever want anything.
“My prayer is that this baby reject his mom’s and her room mate’s views on morality and embrace that of his godly grandparents.”
Once again HisMan, you show what a closed minded bigot you are. Just b/c someone doesnt believe with your morals does not mean they are condemed to hell for eternity (assuming there is one). This child will grow up with two parents who love & respect eachother. Just beacause a man and woman have a child doesnt mean that child is better off than another. Fathers cheat on wives, they can physicallys/verbally abuse their wife or child or in worse case scenarios even sexually abuse their children. Having a male figure in your life does not give you a “free pass” at life, in some cases it can make the child worse.
I am happy for the Vice Presidents daughter, & and I am happy she chose not to adopt. She obvisouly wanted a child, biologically of her own. I dont blame her. I would much rather have a child who shares my genes than a child that doesnt (but that is my opinion).
I also hope that one day Ms. Poe and Ms. Cheney can have a civil union (b/c I doubt gay mariages will ever be legal is this darn country). They should be able to have the state recognize that they are in a loving monogomus relationship. Homosexuality is not a disease or a mental disorder that can be cured. It is just how someone is. They cant help it. There have been numerous studies done on this subject, and it makes me so angry that some Americans critsize and judge them on what gender their “partner” is. They found someone to love them for who they are, faults and all, & that is truely a beautiful thing. Love can not be defined by age, sex, gender, race or nationality. Love is pure and simple and I congratulate them on finding it (I dont care if they’re purple, green, alien, black, white, man, woman, or a hermaphrodite).
But unfortunately, there are people in this world who dont agree with me and my views. And it angers me to no end that “hate crimes” are still happening in America.
Hisman: “No, this baby is in a much worse state than a baby who is born to two impoverished Christian parents on the the plains of the Sudan for he has a much better chance of inheriting eternal life, infinitely more valuable than the temporal riches in this life.”
Exhibit A that Hisman is (insert kind but critical word here)
Stephanie:
From a purely humanistic view, anything, any way of living can be justified.
Based on God’s revelation of who He is and how He wants us to live, this is wrong.
Since we are the created and not the creator, don’t we at least have the obligation to determine how He wants us to live?
If you do believe in the God of the Bible I suggest you pray and ask Him to show you the way.
If you don’t believe in the God of the Bible, that’s a choice you make, however, not believing something as true does not change the facts. I guess that’s something you’ll have to realize on your own and over time with His mercy.
Valerie:
I know your heart and it is good. However, let’s not let even a smattering of immorality infect how God wants us to conduct our lives. Remember, satan will try to decieve even the elect and that coming as an angel of light. Please review your stance on this.
Leah: Nothing. Nothing prepared me for that photo … and I have been hanging around a pro-life blog. That is the most horrible, heart-wrenching thing I have ever seen in my entire life. I think Ms. Cheney’s child will count his blessings.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The picture was shot by a handsome young man names Kevin Carter. He took his life shortly after winning the Pulitzer Prize for the photo:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,981431,00.html
(Reality, BAD! Margaritas, GOOD!)
HisMan,
What facts are you talking about? There are no solid facts to prove God’s existance, just as there are no solid facts to prove God’s nonexistance. The Bible is just not enough evidence for me.
When I see a giant hand reach down from the sky that strikes someone down with lightning, then I might believe that a God exists. Even then, I wouldn’t agree to worship him just because he does.
Hal,
I would rather be the most impoverished person on earth and die knowing Jesus Christ as my Savior than the most privileged and rich person on earth and hold your hell bound views. “What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses His soul”?
It’s odd (but consistent) that pro-aborts who are repulsed by a photo of a poor child in the Sudan want to prohibit photos of babies being ripped apart in the womb from being published.
By the way, I give thousands of dollars a year to ministries who rescue these very children in the Sudan and I haven’t killed my two childen in the womb as you have admitted Hal.
Fill in the blank, Hal is ___________.
And also HisMan, how do you honestly know that your God doesnt like homosexuality? Has he spoken to you and told you this? The bible was written thousands of years ago, and people and their views change. How do you know that your God’s opinion hasnt changed and he does accept homosexuality? Please explain this to me…
agreed Stephanie. As Christopher Hitchens says, “What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.”
Stephanie:
The Bible says it is an evil generation who looks for a sign. Look it up.
It also says that the earth is filled with the glory of the Lord. If you can’t see a loving God in the face of a baby, or in creation itself then I and apparently He can’t do much else to convince you.
Without faith it is impossible to please God. Sorry, no faith, no brass ring.
By the way, He also says, “if you seek me with your whole heart, you will find Me”. That’s between you and Him, so I urge to seek Him before it is too late.
HisMan: By the way, I give thousands of dollars a year to ministries who rescue these very children in the Sudan and I haven’t killed my two childen in the womb as you have admitted Hal.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Well, I don’t know who’s taking your “thousands of dollars,” because there is virtually NO AID making it’s way to to the Sudanese in Darfur. The warlords run the place, it’s totally lawless, and only military intervention is going to save those people.
Hisman: “By the way, I give thousands of dollars a year to ministries who rescue these very children in the Sudan and I haven’t killed my two childen in the womb as you have admitted Hal.”
And I give thousands of dollars a year to keep abortion safe and legal. (actually I don’t,but I might start in honor of you)
“agreed Stephanie. As Christopher Hitchens says, “What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.”
Do love your mother Hal? prove it? do have evidence?
Jasper, stop being stupid and add something relevant to the discussion already.
Congratulations to the Cheneys!
And I’ll probably get things thrown at me too, Valerie…lol. While I don’t agree with the homosexual lifestyle, I see no problem with them raising children together. There are many children who are not loved. And while every person deserves a chance at life, they also deserve to be loved, even if their parents are gay.
Perhaps someone could answer this question. If God did not want to bless this family…this homosexual couple with a child…He could have very easily made the IVF or artificial insemination (I’m assuming that’s what was used here) fail. He could have intervened at any time and not allowed this child to exist. But He saw fit to bless them. Who are we to judge?
Yes, I understand the Biblical model of “family” and I am aware that a homosexual couple does not fit that mold. So again, why did God allow this blessing?
I have good friends who are foster parents. The children they receive may come from two parent homes (mother and father), but they are often abused, neglected and exposed to horrible things. I, myself was raised in by a single mother. Had she stayed with my father I would have been exposed to his abuse and alcoholic fits of rage. Is that better for a child then two loving parents who happen to be homosexual? I just can’t rationalize that.
So, while I don’t agree with the lifestyle, I think there are worse things out there that are happening to children.
Congratulations to the Cheneys!
And I’ll probably get things thrown at me too, Valerie…lol. While I don’t agree with the homosexual lifestyle, I see no problem with them raising children together. There are many children who are not loved. And while every person deserves a chance at life, they also deserve to be loved, even if their parents are gay.
Perhaps someone could answer this question. If God did not want to bless this family…this homosexual couple with a child…He could have very easily made the IVF or artificial insemination (I’m assuming that’s what was used here) fail. He could have intervened at any time and not allowed this child to exist. But He saw fit to bless them. Who are we to judge?
Yes, I understand the Biblical model of “family” and I am aware that a homosexual couple does not fit that mold. So again, why did God allow this blessing?
I have good friends who are foster parents. The children they receive may come from two parent homes (mother and father), but they are often abused, neglected and exposed to horrible things. I, myself was raised in by a single mother. Had she stayed with my father I would have been exposed to his abuse and alcoholic fits of rage. Is that better for a child then two loving parents who happen to be homosexual? I just can’t rationalize that.
So, while I don’t agree with the lifestyle, I think there are worse things out there that are happening to children.
Congratulations to the Cheneys!
And I’ll probably get things thrown at me too, Valerie…lol. While I don’t agree with the homosexual lifestyle, I see no problem with them raising children together. There are many children who are not loved. And while every person deserves a chance at life, they also deserve to be loved, even if their parents are gay.
Perhaps someone could answer this question. If God did not want to bless this family…this homosexual couple with a child…He could have very easily made the IVF or artificial insemination (I’m assuming that’s what was used here) fail. He could have intervened at any time and not allowed this child to exist. But He saw fit to bless them. Who are we to judge?
Yes, I understand the Biblical model of “family” and I am aware that a homosexual couple does not fit that mold. So again, why did God allow this blessing?
I have good friends who are foster parents. The children they receive may come from two parent homes (mother and father), but they are often abused, neglected and exposed to horrible things. I, myself was raised in by a single mother. Had she stayed with my father I would have been exposed to his abuse and alcoholic fits of rage. Is that better for a child then two loving parents who happen to be homosexual? I just can’t rationalize that.
So, while I don’t agree with the lifestyle, I think there are worse things out there that are happening to children.
“(b/c I doubt gay mariages will ever be legal is this darn country).”
It is in massachusetts, the high-court in Mass said so, they said marriage was an “evolving paradigm”. Plus, in Mass, the DEMOCRAT governor said that Catholic charaties can not be involved in the states adoption agency because they don’t approve of Homosexual roommates adopting children.
Midnite678:
Sorry I misspell your name sometimes, it’s not intentional.
The Bible says Jesus Christ is the same now and forever. He is an eternal God and does not change like some shifting shadow. Nor is he a man that He should lie. He is the Rock. If God changes His opinion based on man’s whims and current mores and fashions, He is not a God I want to follow. He is a God of rock-solid truth. We can bet out eternal souls on this.
His names are numerous: The Alpha and the Omega, King of kings, and Lord of lords. Wonderful Savior, Mighty Warrior, Rose of Sharon, Deliverer, Emmanuel, Prince of Peace, to name a few.
His revealed will is outlined in the Bible written in 66 books over a span of 6,000 years by numerous authors. The Old testament is His will concealed and the new Testament His will revealed.
He loves you unconditionally, however, He is a Holy God and expects you to conform to His will. He can be trusted unlike men who will lie to you and decieve you. You would do well to seek Him with your whole heart as he promises that if you do so you will find Him. It’s a wonderful journey of victory and learning. Satan has done everything in his power to try to defeat me and has failed. You can experience the same if you would just give Jesus a chance.
Hal,
“Christopher Hitchens says, “What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.”
You can’t see the moutain of evidence for God’s existence in front of your face because you are poor, and blinded, and wretched. You are not only willing to deny God’s existence but encourage others to do the same. Your damnation apart from repentance and acceptance of Jesus Christ is assured.
I’ll believe the resurrected Jesus Christ who said, “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life, no man comes to the Father but by Me” not some Hitchens guy.
Again, pro-aborts always seem to be willing to latch onto apparently good sounding cliches that when brought into the light of analysis and exegesis are mere doctrines of demons designed to deceive and mislead.
The also says, “It is a fool who says in his heart, there is no God”.
Stephanie, Midnite at the Oasis,
Do you both love your Moms? Can you please prove it to me? where are your solid facts?
They are not roommates Jasper, they are partners, like any other couple in America. They might not fit nicely into the mold you have, but they are, alas, a couple and should be recognized as one. And I dont live in Mass, I am in Alabama (smack middle of the darn bible belt), and trust me, gay mariages will *never* be legal here. But I wish they would everywhere in the Country. Gay couples deserve the same rights as heterosexual couples.
Conception may no longer require gametes from a male or female. A recent research effort produced sperm cells from bone derived adult stem cells. Eggs have yet to be produced, but at least for the time being… men not required to procreate anymore.
As far as gay couples having kids, I wonder if anti-choice crowd would advocate abortion for lesbian who intentionally got herself knocked-up. I know… not likely, however taking the baby away???
Stephanie:
“Homosexuals should be able to adopt, it’s ridiculous that they aren’t able to”
How about asexuals?
I’m quite serious.
How about two — or three — people who are in an entirely platonic relationship, and their sexuality isn’t even on the table? Should they be able to adopt as well? Why or why not?
PB&J:
God allowed 9/11 too. Are we to assume he blessed the Islamofascists as they approached His throne to receive their 72 virgins? Because He allows something to happen does not imply His blessing on it.
No, God allows us to oppose His will. It’s called mercy and grace and lovingkindness in the hope that we will come to a saving knowledge of the Truth.
The wages of sin is death but the gift of God is etneral life though Christ Jesus our Lord.
Apart from faith in Christ, there is no hope, there is no future blesing. With faith in Christ we can expect a glorius future of peace, blessing, no sickness, no death and that in God’s eternal presence.
Jasper, please stop being childish. If you dont having anything important to add to the discussion at hand, please do not address me.
Hisman to me: “You can’t see the moutain of evidence for God’s existence in front of your face because you are poor, and blinded, and wretched. You are not only willing to deny God’s existence but encourage others to do the same.”
I wonder what’s worse in your view, Hisman, the two children I “murdered in the womb” or the two other children (my kids) who I have raised to be athiests?
Hisman,
Not everyone beleived in your god. Among those who do, few beleive that the bible is the inerrant word of god. As a result, scriptures, and your specific cherry-picked interpretations of them, justify nothing in the eyes of these others.
Do you have any argument to offer beyond your own personal spiritual system?
Hisman,
Not everyone beleived in your god. Among those who do, few beleive that the bible is the inerrant word of god. As a result, scriptures, and your specific cherry-picked interpretations of them, justify nothing in the eyes of these others.
Do you have any argument to offer beyond your own personal spiritual system?
No doubt you’ll find something offensive about this, but I’ll state that is not my intent here.
It took me a long time to learn that homosexuality was not a union that could be “blessed” by God. I have a lot of gay friends and my motto was always “Live and let live!” I began to really watch gays in their relationships. Their lives were in a constant state of turmoil. Nothing that I would envy. My mother’s best friend’s daughter is a lesbian. My mother’s friend is the very woman who explained to me how she will never accept her daughter’s gay lifestyle. She is a good Christian woman, and she prays constantly for her daughter to either go straight or remain abstinate.Even when I asked her “Well, can’t you just accept her for who she is?” oops wrong question! She told me that it was an abomination, and helped me find it in the Bible. It is right there in black and white. Although she loves her daughter, their relationship is very strained.
Hisman: “Are we to assume he blessed the Islamofascists as they approached His throne to receive their 72 virgins?”
Do you really not see that to most of us your religious views are just as wacko as believing in the 72 virgins? It’s the exact same thing, just a different book.
“Jasper, please stop being childish. If you dont having anything important to add to the discussion at hand, please do not address me.”
Midnite at the Oasis,
I asked you a simple question, can you please prove to me that you love your mother. I need hard evidence…..
Hal:
“I wonder what’s worse in your view, Hisman, the two children I “murdered in the womb” or the two other children (my kids) who I have raised to be athiests?”
I think a Christian answer would generally be that all of reality needs redemption, and that comparing which rotten apple is worst in a basket full of ’em is a fool’s errand.
Asexuals (intersexual), sure. Why not?
Two, three, five, ten, sure. Platonic relationship? You mean, sister and brother lives in the same house and wants to adopt a kid? Doesn’t matter. As long as there is stability in the relationship, it is explained to the kid, and the child is loved and cared for, there is no problem for me.
Note: This is not me condoning incest. Remember, rasqual, you said a PLATONIC relationship.
Jasper’s question is as legitimate as my earlier inquiry about whether human rights may be “proven.” There’s much talk of “proof” when people speak of religious faith, but very little acknowledgement that the things that seem to matter most either in our politics (rights) or our personal lives (love) cannot be proven very easily either.
As far as a gay couple raising children, well I guess that could get awfully confusing for the child. Anyway, Mr.and Mrs. Cheney have a beautiful grandson.
“I asked you a simple question, can you please prove to me that you love your mother. I need hard evidence…..”
Jasper, I do indeed love my mother, but I don’t see how it is relevant to the conversation.
Stop being a child and add something productive to this conversation, ok?
No Jasper I cant actually prove to you that I love mother. Unless the except the fact that I buy he really nice and really expenisive gifts on holidays. She sppoiled me to the best of her ability and her pocket while I was growing up. even the four years that it was just her and me (HISMAN I Did not have a dad for FOUR YEARS GOSH!!). So now that I make good money, I spoil her b/c I love her and I can now. Does that prove to you that I love her, no. But I would rather die than lose her (ex: I’d step in front a bullet for her).
Stephanie: you’re far too accustomed to people drawing inferences with no warrant around here, I’ll wager. I won’t say quite that I’m hurt,/i> by a tacit implication in your remark that I might do so, but hey. ;-)
But I’m curious: it’s darned simple to say “sure, as long as there’s stability in the relationship,” but it’s another thing entirely to administer rubrics and policies that would ensure this criterion (and any others). I mean, does what we mean by stability itself vary with the nature of the relationship of interest? Is stability quantitative? If a foursome loses a member, is the remaining threesome’s staying together for the next year evidence that this group is a viable candidate for adoption? Would a threesome losing one member be deemed less stable after the same year’s period on the grounds that after all, that’s a 33% change versus a 25% one?
I congratulate your consistency, but a sound philosophy of such things doesn’t need just to have coherence — it has to have correspondence to reality. Often, ideas that seem sensible aren’t administrable and come to later be understood as not having derived from ideas having correspondence to “the way reality is.”
Which, BTW, needn’t be positively known for this point to hold. One can learn what reality isn’t by discovering what doesn’t work, while never actually knowing what reality is. The process of elimination is expensive to entire societies that fall apart while novel ideas are tried and discarded as the human toll grows, but hey.
“Jasper, I do indeed love my mother, but I don’t see how it is relevant to the conversation.”
I want you to prove it to me! You said you need solid facts to believe in something, and I’m saying I need solid facts too.
“No Jasper I cant actually prove to you that I love mother. ”
No, you can’t, can you. But it is true that you love your mother. The same thing with my belief in God, I can’t prove it to you, but I know it’s true.
The note wasn’t just directed at you. It was supposed to be directed at everyone reading. Just covering my ass here. =)
You make a good point about group stability. When I say stability, I mean that the group is committed for the long run, not a Spring Break fling or anything. I understand it would be really hard to regulate a group adoption. It’s not realistic, but ideally it would be able to happen.
What is the ideal that would make its normative standing a salutary addition to our polity?
“I want you to prove it to me! You said you need solid facts to believe in something, and I’m saying I need solid facts too.”
Indeed. What kind of proof do you need?
Cameron,
What about the egg? The sperm is only part of the equation. Can eggs be derived similarly? If not, do you think that will ever be possible?
What DNA component does the sperm cell have? Same question for the egg?
If you see the joining of a sperm and egg as simply a biological/mechanical processes, do you think this has skewed your view of conception?
Have you ever humbly examined yourself on this to see if maybe your studies have desensitized you to life as being more than just a process? Hence abortion as merely the disposal of biological waste without any spiritual implications?
Science can do that to a person you have to admit. Knowledge puffs up but love builds up. Too much knowlege maybe Cameron, and not enough love for souls and babies in the womb? However, we are way more than what science says we are. You know this. You know that the more we learn and discover, the more we realize how much we don’t know. That in itself is proof of an infinite designer. Yep, He’s called, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Want a fancy Greek word….Logos…the Word?
Oh, the Bible says that if we seek Him with all our hearts we will find Him. The scientific converse of that is if we don’t seek Him with all our heart we won’t find Him. It’s kind of a Catch-22 you’ve painted yourself into Cameron. It’s called a lie and a snare of the devil. When will you start gnawing at your own leg to escape from satan’s trap?
Extrication only possible by admitting error, confessing sin and an absolute need for a Savior. What do you say? Possibly waiting till right before you take your last breath and the terror of an afterlife in hell? Don’t bet on it.
One final point Cameron. In your quest for scientific knowledge, which appears to me to be your god, you must honestly admit that it’s a lost cause. You will never know more than an infinitesimal amount of the knowledge that is out there. You see, the bible says, “who can know the mind of God”? An alternate view for you would be to acknowledge where your obvious above average scientific aptitude came from and use them to His glory and not your own. Of course, the “choice” is yours.
Sorry to run, I’ve got a lunch date! I’ll answer as soon as I get back, rasqual.
Call me simple minded, but why couldn’t Cheney’s daughter marry a man that looks like her room-mate? Not trying to be sassy here, just something to wonder about.
Hal,
Jesus Christ was quite, quite different than the Prophet, don’t you think? The Koran – doctrines of demons, the Bible – Word of God….big difference.
Hey Rasqual,
Your linqistic talents are unmatched on this site and honestly I have a hard time keeping up and that’s a compliment. However, I do want to understand where I stand with you. In your response to Hal, did I hear you imply that I was a rotten apple in the midst of a bunch of ’em or was that a metaphorical question where I was inadvertently included.
By the way, why don’t you give a daily “word for the day”? I’d like that.
Rasquel,
“What is the ideal that would make its normative standing a salutary addition to our polity?”
Do heterosexual couple’s have to be assessed for stability prior to having children??
Only if they’re adopting. Not if they become pregnant
Oh crap, my bad. Sorry for the tripple doozy there guys! Computer/keyboard are acting up at work today!!
Cameron: No.
Not a tree I’m barking up, but that’s the obvious answer.
Rasqual:
I plead ignorance on this one, however, by asking for an interpretation and a subsequent respsonse I might be able to learn something.
What in the heck does this mean? “What is the ideal that would make its normative standing a salutary addition to our polity?”
Let me take a crack at it: What makes homosexuality an acceptable lifestyle? Am I close?
Please, for the sake of those on this site who have less than a graduate degree, would you please dispense with the self-congratulatory, ego stroking gobble-dee-gook, please.
Hisman,
“What about the egg? The sperm is only part of the equation. Can eggs be derived similarly? If not, do you think that will ever be possible?”
No, as I said, eggs haven
“The point was that a women could have sperm generated with bone stem cells, and fertilize the eggs of her female spouse…. and vice-a-versa. And men are no longer necessary. ”
I think this was a “Twilight Zone” episode. If memory serves, it didn’t have a good ending.
What is the ideal that would make its normative standing a salutary addition to our polity?”
I believe Stephanie said that ideally any group of individuals that were “suitable” should be able to adopt children, and Rasqual is asking what her version of an ideal group of people would be defined as, so as to be able to make it law.
The bad apple comparison was in response to Hal asking which would be worse…Aborting two children or raising 2 children as atheists. Rasqual was saying that if a basket is full of bad apples (abortion, atheism) there is no good to come of figuring out which apple is the least rotten. They all need to be tossed!
He does have a way with words, doesn’t he…keeps you on your toes…and in the dictionary!
HisMan:
“self-congratulatory, ego stroking gobble-dee-gook”
??
That seems a gratuitous inference of motive. But you were reading someone else’s mail. The question was to Stephanie, who apparently understood it and deferred till after lunch. It was in response to her closing “ideally it would be able to happen”.
” . . . are threatened by science because it has in a short period of time far exceeded religion and god in improving the human condition. ”
This statement cannot be backed up with evidence. How does one know that God is not behind the amazing advances in technology and science that have occurred in just the past century?
There is no proof, in any empirical sense, for that which is supernatural.
MK! Welcome back!
Thanks SH…
It’s only momentary, until I’m caught. I’m supposed to be in bed doing leg lifts and ice packs…but I’m weak, so weak and the computer is just outside my bedroom and I’m afraid temptation won…
Actually, I’m going back in now.
But I had to say something…Sure do wish I had a laptop!
Sneak back later…
\
MK
MK!!!!!!!
*smooch*
Even if it is just for a moment, glad your back. Is the dog still alive?
;-)
mar: “Call me simple minded, but why couldn’t Cheney’s daughter marry a man that looks like her room-mate? Not trying to be sassy here, just something to wonder about.”
Because she isn’t attracted to men. You’re missing the point.
It hasn’t got anything to do with the looks of a person–it’s the fact that her partner is a woman that attracts her. Would you find yourself sexually/romantically attracted to someone who resmbled your significant other, but of the opposite sex? I highly doubt it.
Valerie,
Yes, but the “CRUTCH” is always nearby…one swat and it’s hot dog for dinner!
Be back later,
give my love to everyone.
mk
I don’t have a graduate degree and I have no problem keeping up with any of the material on this site. It has nothing to do with a level of education, it has to do with being well read.
I’ve never understood how pro-lifers, who are so dramatically insistant that an underdeveloped fetus has rights, can deny some of the most basic ones to fully grown adults.
HisMan, what would be worse, a baby born to a crack addicted mother who was married to a chronically abusive alcoholic, or a baby born to a lesbian woman and her partner/adopted by the lesiban woman and her partner? As an adopted child, I have heard from my parents how difficult it is to get a child, which is why after they had me, they went to Korea to adopt my brother. The foster care system is MASSIVELY over populated- which is why it’s always funny to me when pro-lifers say, “Hey, just give them up for adoption and unless they are a perfectly healthy white child, they will float through the system until they are 18 and then be released on the world totally unprepared!” It’s harsh, I know, but it’s true. Wouldn’t it be better for any child to have two loving parents of the same sex, then to never have any parents at all? About 30% of the homeless are under 25 years old. Many of them were those who were simply jettisoned out of the foster care system at 18.
On different note, I have several homosexual friends. Many of them are very happy! My friends Josh and Randy are beautifully and wonderfully in love, in such a way that you can feel it radiating off of them when you are in their presence. I can’t imagine that any God would forbid anyone the only thing in their life that has the ability to make them happy and complete. If you are straight, try forcing yourself to be romantically attracted to the same gender. It’s not possible. Imagine living every day hearing people tell you that you are evil for wanting to be who you are, and that you will go to hell for desires that you have had ever since puberty, sometimes earlier. If homosexuals are more ‘unhappy’ than anyone else, it’s because they are denied some of the basic rights of a free, responsible adult. I’d be pretty upset too.
That said, Heather and her partner are both strong, upstanding, responsible women. I have no doubt that their child will grow up to be a fine young man.
Hisman: ” would you please dispense with the self-congratulatory, ego stroking gobble-dee-gook, please.”
First time I agree with you!!!
Cameron:
Seems like we’re making some progress on civility towards each other. That’s a good thing.
In order for there to be a reconcilition of sorts I will be the first to offer an apology. Nothing really good happens when we trade jabs. Jill has had the wisdom to let you stay on the site apart from my repeated attempts to get you banned. I will follow her lead and try to put an end to the hostility. So, I apologize for using my faith as a weapon. Really, it’s not my intent, only my impatience revealed in wanting to help people come to know Christ, if you would be so kind as to allow this discretion.
I mean even C. S. Lewis had friends that did not agree with his faith but still was able to learn from them, love them, fellowship with them, smoke cigars with them.
I know you have a far greater knowlege of bioloy than I will ever have and I commend you for it. Reading your resume online, I can see that you have come up the hard way and are deserving of all that you have worked so hard for. You are not a silver spoon intellectual but rather seem to be person who is seeking truth and willing to work hard to find it. However, I think you have been prejudiced in some ways as to faith and I can’t begin to know why. Only you, by a humble self-examination can know that. It would be foolish for anyone to not examine themselves to see why they believe certain things and then be willing to change. Perhpas a Professor you admired dissed God and you bought into it…only one of a possilbe million examples, point is something affected you visa vi, faith.
I know that eternity is written in our hearts and it would seem that this would require a conscience decision to deny. Again, just a supposition. I do know that our human experiences can cloud our spiritual vision and sometimes it takes a paradigm experience to wake us up. Kind of like Pauls’ road to Damascus epiphiany. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt if you promise not to see it as anything but a true concern for your soul, nothing more, or not an attack on your intellect.
I am very interested in learning more about the bioloy of the whole human gestation/birth process. I plead ignorance on the correct terminology to use, so forgive me and correct me please. I see I have been delinquent in not listening to other views when it comes to more earthly or fleshly issues as a believer would characterize them, however, I can see where no good has been done. I’ve got to admit wrong without wavering on my faith.
When it comes to biology, I’m kind of like the person who thinks that the reason the car goes down the street is because I put the gas in the car and started the ignition without knowing anything about gears, electricity, combustion, etc. However, I know that driving the car danerously can get me killed and I like to drive accordingly and warn others that I love, same.
So, in response to your question about why I can’t seem to go beyond my religious beliefs in response to the abortion argument my answer is 1) For me, taken to the nth degree, the biological process is a disconnect in terms of settling the question as to whether or not abortion is morally right or wrong. Hence, I have made the conclusion that biological arguments are irrelevant because the higher standard is the spiritual standard. It’s not a slam on you, it’s just the extrapolated conclusion as the sum approaches infinity. (I too took differential equations, complex polynomial solutions, vector calculus, etc. and have worked on extremely complex mechanisms that travel the universe and won’t be awakended for years). I learned in engineering school that when you don’t have enough information to solve a mathematical problem, you have to make sum driven extrapolations so that your answer becomes the convergence of simultaneous solutions. You understand this. Hence, for me, the answer to the rightness or wrongness of abortion is not to be found in the mechanics of the process of life, but in the spiritual implications. Hence, since I have a limited life span, I chose the path of morality based on the Bible, since science is not even able to provide enough information, a leap of faith is required.
So, if we can, perhaps we could learn from each other. I could understand how one might feel that, given more scientific discoveries and man’s seeming increasing ability to control life itself via understanding of biological processes, an extrapolation could be made that says, “there is no God”.
The Bible says that there is a way that seems right unto a man, but therein leads to death. To me this says we would be wise to understand what motivates our belief system. For me, my belief system involves something that is much great than me, the revealed word of God. For you it appears to be science. Am I wrong?
Erin:
I cannot pretend to know the answer to your question.
Nor am I required to do so. I am only required to trust and obey the anchor of my soul, Jesus Christ. He says to choose life and not death. This is what I try to do.
I know that many good people have come out of very bad home situations and many bad people have come out of seemingly perfect situations. That to me says that assumed outcomes do not ever justify murdering a baby in the womb.
Hurry back MK; we miss you!
“This statement cannot be backed up with evidence. How does one know that God is not behind the amazing advances in technology and science that have occurred in just the past century?”
Religion then.
“This statement cannot be backed up with evidence. How does one know that God is not behind the amazing advances in technology and science that have occurred in just the past century?”
I thinks it’s pretty self evident that it’s religion and those beleiving in a god above all else. But your welcome to parse if that’s all you got.
Hal:
“First time I agree with you!!!”
Which explains why you both disagree so much. If the two of you are equally willing to gratuitously attribute motives to people that illustrate more about how you feel than about what you can legitimately infer, it’d be a wonder if content could rule over sentiment in your conversations with each other.
Sorry Raqual:
You’re evidently brilliant. Have mercy on the rest of us please. I know Cameron understands you and that’s not a slam, Cameron. I mean, he’s still in college. Man, I’ve been out for 30 years if you don’t count my MA in Theolgy in ’06.
I just find it amusing that many on this site can’t understand a word you say, including me, but, perhaps just me. That’s not your problem I know, however, as an engineer, I learned the KISS principle which says, “Keep It Simple Stupid”.
Based on my experience I know that the more complex a design, the better chance it had at failure.
So, for my sake, as I have a desire to understand what you are brillantly trying to say would you keep it simple or simpler? But, it’s only a request and not a command and I am totally at your mercy. I am confessing fault here. I was not as good in English as I was in Math, in fact, my English teachers were usually pretty boring and unhappy or, at least that’s how I perceived them to be.
MK, Where and how are you? I will e-mail you tonight! Get well!!!!
“Perhpas a Professor you admired dissed God and you bought into it…”
yea, that’s usually the case…
“Perhpas a Professor you admired dissed God and you bought into it…”
yea, that’s usually the case…
I had two very influentional professors who believed in God, but it didn’t wear off on me. (not that they tried, but I was impressed with the sincerity of their beliefs.)
HisMan –
Attributing brilliance is also gratuitous, but I can appreciate how words can separate as well as communicate.
If I’m abstruse, that’s usually when I’m peeling off something darned fast. It’s like stream of consciousness. If I take time to slow down quite a bit, I’m more pedestrian.
Unfortunately I can’t guarantee that I’ll evermore be able to compose only at leisure. ;-)
From my experience, people usually come to college with their beliefs either set or open. Nothing a professor says is going to change your mind if you aren’t open to the possibility. One of my professors, my favorite, in fact, whom I admire greatly, is very socially conservative and a practicing Methodist. That doesn’t change my beliefs at all. He’s an amazing professor- I admire him for the work he has done on Medeival Spain and that he remains very objective about history(one of the best people ever at avoiding presentism), and I admire his ability to pass information on to me while keeping me interested even when it’s 8 in the morning and I partied a little too late the night before. If someone changes your views without intentionally trying to, your mind was already on the path there and would have reached it anyways.
On a really, completely unrelated note, how many ladies here swoon over Johnny Depp and are amazingly excited about Pirates 3 coming out today?
“On a really, completely unrelated note, how many ladies here swoon over Johnny Depp and are amazingly excited about Pirates 3 coming out today?”
@Erin: Oh you know I totally am. :D
Rasqual:
You are right.
I find it extremely distateful for a father to kill his two unborn children, have two more children, then admit that he is bringing them up as atheists.
Perhaps the way I have been dealing with this person has been wrong and I’ve got to admit that I am in grammar school when it comes to how I debate people about moral issues, but not about the content of the debate. I am however, learning and am depending on you to mentor me through the process. You set a good example.
I warn you in advance that while I am a fast learner I can be an ornery student or in your vernacular: Aptitudinal absorption rates have never been contraindicated, however, attentive/cognitive skill set deficiency is presented as evidenced by anti-social normative behavior.
Please laughg with me :-}
Rasqual:
Doesn’t matter: Just having fun with you:
I love your intellect.
It is simply amazing.
God Bless you for making you soooooooooo smart. You are a gift.
Gatuitous, no see it as thankful to a Holy God, and not take it personal. Remember, give praise to whom praise is due.
Peace.
Raqual:
You absolutely crack me up:
Here’s what you said: “Attributing brilliance is also gratuitous, but I can appreciate how words can separate as well as communicate.
If I’m abstruse, that’s usually when I’m peeling off something darned fast. It’s like stream of consciousness. If I take time to slow down quite a bit, I’m more pedestrian.
Unfortunately I can’t guarantee that I’ll evermore be able to compose only at leisure. ;-)”
Here’s my translation:
Flattery will get you nowhere pimp. Words can break bones contrary to cliche.
I can’t help how I write, it’s the thorn in my flesh, I do what I don’t want to do and can’t help myself, what’s a person to do? If I do what I really want to do I sound like a 4th grader.
Sorry, can’t guarantee that I’ll change and you’ll just have to love me anyway”.
Rasqual, your name appropriately describes you.
Jill, what a gem for a blogger on your site. Please treat Rasqual with all due respect.
Erin and Rae:
Jonny Depp does nothing for me.
You might want to ask Cameron and Hal though. Just kidding guys.
HisMan and MK: Actually, I was abstracting beyond the two cases at issue (the apple thing) to the sense in which these are two instances of so many more evils that comparing them is missing the point. Two lemmings might argue as they fell off a cliff, “which of us will hit the water first,” but there’s obviously a bigger problem which explains the quandry each of them finds themselves in, and no the other way around.
So often in this world the issue is how fundamentally it may be possible to explain one thing by another. Trees, forest, etc.
Paul explained it simply; there’s not one good apple — no, not one.
If I were treated with DUE respect, I’d be flogged mercilessly. ;-)
Rasqual;
Is MK back? I didn’t see her post.
Then why argue against abortion at all?
We both know the root cause for the existence of abortion don’t we? Perhaps I misunderstand you.
I wont’ be responding soon as I have to attend to family and business issues.
Peace.
Man, quite a bit happened around here today!
Erin –
“The foster care system is MASSIVELY over populated- ”
You may not have been here, but we have discussed this in depth on at least two different post. The majority of kids in foster care are NOT up for adoption. There is nothing anyone can do if their parents won’t allow it and the govt won’t make them.
“”Hey, just give them up for adoption and unless they are a perfectly healthy white child, they will float through the system until they are 18 and then be released on the world totally unprepared”
I do not believe this to be true based on experience. My cousin waited 5 years and the only requirement she had was she wanted a child under 6 months of age. After a 5 year wait, she adopted an hispanic boy who was a “crack” baby. I think there is a whole lot more to it than just everyone wants a white baby.
“About 30% of the homeless are under 25 years old. Many of them were those who were simply jettisoned out of the foster care system at 18. ”
I was wondering if you have some stats on this. The reports I have read on the homeless say that the majority of them are mentally ill. My sister works in socail work, and that is where I get my info, so it may be bias.
Sort of Off topic – Have you read the book “A Child Called It.” by Dave Peltzer? It is a true autobiography about a boy who was severely abused at home and went through the foster care system. It can be sad at parts, but very informative.
“If you are straight, try forcing yourself to be romantically attracted to the same gender. ”
I’ve actually thought alot about this. In the Catholic Church they say that it is the “act” of homosexuality that is wrong. But then they say that the homosexual should ignore the feelings and live a heterosexual lifestyle. My thought on this: What about the homosexual’s spouse? How horrible would that be going through a marriage knowing that your husband/wife would rather you be someone else. Not to mention how difficult it would be for everyone else involved. I think I may be babbling now….
Rasquel –
I have to agree with HisMan – sometimes I have no idea what it is you are saying. I have had to use my dictionary in order to understand! I will admit that my vocabulary is about as good as my spelling, which isn’t good! But I have learned alot about the English language from you. So, I’m not sure if I want you to stop or not… ;-)
Rae – Hi! You asked me on another post how I am doing, and I think I forgot to answer. I’m fine! How are you doing?
MK –
Did someone say Lemmings?
Val-
Actually, yes! I have read that book, it is wonderful.
http://www.nhchc.org/Publications/younghomelessadult1.pdf
That’s a really long national report on the young homeless- PDF loads badly on my computer though, so I’m not sure which pages are most relevant.
Valerie: A Child Called It, made me cry harder than any other book I’ve ever read. It was mandatory lit for my intro to Psych class Freshman year. I think everyone should read that book atleast once in their lifetime…
MK:
You’re back!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you God.
Rasqual:
After going back and reading the posts and after MK’s brilliant interpetation I stand humbly corrected.
Thank God for both of you, I love you both, what a team.
Cameron:
What if a sperm cell was derived from a stem cell of a woman who was then impregnated with those cells? Would a similar risk, i.e., as from an incestuous relationship exist? Do you think the baby would have defects? Has that ever been studied?
Quote from Johnny Depp:
Talking about the country that made him a millionare:
“America is dumb, is something like a dumb puppy that has big teeth
HisMan,
I appreciate the apology, and i
I don’t care for that guy anyway. I’m not a fan of J.Depp or Brad Pitt[s]. I’m not sure why. They are just two big bores to me.
Faggot!
Posted by: jasper at May 24, 2007 05:28
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Do you use the “N” word, as well?
Why don’t you save that epithet for the kind of guys who wear dresses, long hair, sandals, and don’t even cop freebies from the hookers they hang out with? You know, Jesus…
Laura, don’t go acting like you’re some goody 2 shoes now.
America is dumb, and agressive…. put puppies are cute.
I think Gwyneth Paltrow made a similar statement. She preferrs London.
Cameron, why not move to France? I’ll help you pack.
“Why don’t you save that epithet for the kind of guys who wear dresses, long hair, sandals, and don’t even cop freebies from the hookers they hang out with? You know, Jesus…”
what do you mean Laura?
jasper, I don’t even think SHE knows.
Laura is the same woman who defends Bill [the cheating womanizer] Clinton to the absolute hilt. This helps explain her character.
Yes Heather,
some of these actors are just so full of themselves they can’t help it (kinda like Cam), I just refuse to watch their movies. When their out of the country, they like to trash America. I’d could give you list but I won’t waste my time on the bums.
…you know, the Micheal Moore crowd
Michael Mooore talking about his fellow Americans:
“Americans may be the dumbest people on the planet”
You know who the dumbest people on the planet are?
Those who have to result to hateful slurs to voice their opinion of someone.
jasper, yes. No need for a list. That’s Hollyweird for you. As far as I’m concerned, there are quite a few of them that are nuttier than a Christmas fruitcake anyway. That’s a whole other story.
…you know, I don’t really care what Johnny Depp’s politics are. He’s really ridiculously good looking. He’s a fantastic actor. I like to watch him in movies.
I was trying to make friendly conversation about a cinematic adventure, not start a conversation on celebrities and their politics :-(
“You know who the dumbest people on the planet are?
Those who have to result to hateful slurs to voice their opinion of someone.”
Then talk to your leftist buddies who have been calling my President all kinds of names since he’s been in office.
You know who the dumbest people on the planet are? Those who refuse to accept the fact that abortion kills children.
I think its a shame that no pro lifer has called out jasper on his use of a horrible slur. Do you kiss your unborn children with that mouth?
I might cry over what my innocent comment about being excited about a movie about pirates has spawned. Seriously- to be entertained by someone, you don’t have to like them. I think Tom Cruise is nuts, but I still love all the Mission Impossible movies and absolutely adore the remake of War of the Worlds. Good actors and good people are different things- if they have the talent I’m still going to watch them. The purpose of entertainers is to entertain us- you don’t have to listen to anything they say past that.
“I like to watch him in movies.”
“I’d like to watch him say that about America in my back yard so I could kick his girly ass.”
Sorry.I’ll stick with Clint Eastwood’s western and cop movies.
Erin, you didn’t. We were all having a similar conversation earlier in the week. I merely pointed out to a few people that I found Bill Clinton incredibly unattractive, and all of a sudden I was in the middle of a sh** storm! As far as actors and actresses go, it’s the same thing. Not only do I not care much about what Depp said, I just don’t care about him…period! I prefer Jeff Goldblum myself.
Yeah, Erin, its not like Johnny Depp pushes his politics in Pirates, its all fun.
“Seriously- to be entertained by someone, you don’t have to like them”
I have to Erin.
Jeff Goldblum is hysterical, definitely! Brad Pitt doesn’t do it for me either…but that’s because he is a terrible actor. I love Johnny Depp for his flexibility. Watch The Libertine, Pirates of the Carribean, then Finding Neverland…you’d never be able to tell it was the same person!
“I think its a shame that no pro lifer has called out jasper on his use of a horrible slur.”
Fortunately they’re double standards and scruples are readily transparent… otherwise we might have to take them seriously when they’d invoke morals.
Do you EVER watch movies then, jasper? Have you ever been to a stage show? I’m POSITIVE that you see people on stage and screen all the time that you won’t agree with.
Yeah, Cameron, if one of us had said the n-word they would be in hysterics.
“eugenics!!!!!!”
Me too. After Tom Cruise pulled that stupid couch jumping stunt, I was no longer a fan. Same goes for the Dixie Chicks. I just think that actors/singers should stick to whatever it is that they do for a living. The smart ones keep their mouths shut.
Erin *high five* Nope, Brad is such a stinkin bore. I know millions of women may disagree, but he just nauseates me. His acting stinks.
Jasper, you have to be the most hateful person I’ve ever met, and I can’t wait til the day where you make the grave mistake of calling a SHARP skinhead a neo-nazi and get beaten into the dirt for it. Seriously, we are all equal here. Using ‘faggot’ is just like saying chink, redskin, nigger, kyke, or any other type of racial slur. Seriously, you’re what, in your 30’s and you talk like a high schooler? I’m so glad that the world I’ve been brought into is so kind and accepting of others.
Seriously, your self-righteous, holier-than-though attitude is really starting to get on my nerves. I’m surprised you haven’t been given a Chicago Smile yet.
Jerk.
My gay friends always say faggot.
Does this same group find Howard Stern amusing. He gets away with this crap all the time.
By the way, Jasper, I had something I wanted to say and forgot to type.
If you seriously don’t like people talking smack about that retarded chimpanzee you call a president, maybe you SHOULDN’T HAVE VOTED FOR HIM AGAIN, WISE GUY!
And I will say whatever I want about America thanks to our handy first amendment. Hell, I might go deep fry me a bald eagle and cry over how good it is while I stand my post at the American flag. And before you call me a nazi, a liberal, or an America-hater, I went to military school and probably have more respect for our country that a radical fanatical right-wingin’ lunatic like you will ever dream of having. So, sit down and shut up until you can open your mouth and say something smart.
Oh, and Pirates totally owns anything Clint Eastwood has ever done, excluding Dirty Harry. :)
Do you guys condone Cameron saying tard and retard? C’mon, let’s hear it.
My first thought is that they should not degrade themselves in that way. But secondly, a gay person using the word faggot is akin to a black person calling another black person “nigga”; it is seen as socially alright.
But jasper, who I would venture a guess as to say is not a homosexual, has no claim to use that word; whether using it to degrade a homosexual or to childishly diss a straight person that he happens to disagree with.
Cameron, I would assume, is not mentally retarded either. Why does he poke fun at retarded people? Cameron, would you make fun of a retarded person walking down the street?
Had to go cut the grass…
“Do you EVER watch movies then, jasper? Have you ever been to a stage show?”
Erin, my brother was an actor. He was in a number of commercials. Did side parts on a couple sitcoms in the 90’s.
Then you have to know that the entertainment business is and for the most part has always been a very liberal industry.
I don’t let politics get in the way of me enjoying myself when I’m trying to relax. It ruins the experience.
As for your brother, that’s nifty! I’ve always wanted to act but I’ve had to put that to the wayside- blind actors don’t really get work, I’m pretty sure.
“…my English teachers were usually pretty boring and unhappy or, at least that’s how I perceived them to be.”
Some of my English teachers were like that. I guess it’s a good thing that the majority of the ones I had were perky and happy and all that jazz.
And I know, I know. I said I was leaving, but I got bored and this site does provide entertainment and allows me to kill loads of time. Can you really blame me for coming back so soon?
“I went to military school and probably have more respect for our country that a radical fanatical right-wingin’ lunatic like you will ever dream of having”
Yes, you already told us you were in the Military John Kerry, oops I mean Dan. ….
6 years here (62 foxtrot),Army. ……and if I were President I’d have you tried for sedition.
“I don’t let politics get in the way of me enjoying myself when I’m trying to relax. It ruins the experience.”
I usually don’t let it get in the way Erin, I like Robert Deniro’s acting. But I hate his politics….
“Using ‘faggot’ is just like saying chink, redskin, nigger, kyke, or any other type of racial slur.”
Ok Al Sharpton, thank-you
Cameron:
I appreciate the time you put into that post. I’m gonna have to read it a few times to fully digest it so give me a chance.
I’m sorry that you had such a bad experience with that foreign exchange student. Doesn’t sound like what you said the Christian organization did to your family was right. I don’t think most churches would be this way, however, I know some that could, so, I believe you. I now understand why you’re prejudiced towards fundamentalist Christians. Any one of us can go overboard sometime, appears to be part of the human condition and as Rasqual has clearly stated, I too deserve worse than I recieve. I think the vast majority of us are truly loving, caring peopel that want nothing but the best outcome for people, in the here and now, and in the hereafter.
Believe it or not I don’t subscribe to all of the things the church tries to recommend that one do. For example, it’s been a long standing teaching that there should be devotionals in the home at least once a week. Well, I never did that because my kids didn’t like it and I didn’t want to push them away. Sometimes I felt guilty not doing it, however, time has proven that just loving and being involved with your kids is much more fruitful than just shoving scripture down their throats. I too have been hurt by things Christian have done to me. However, I realize that they are not God and my faith is not in them. It’s one of the ironies of being involved with people.
I really never pushed my faith on my kids, and all of them are solid believers, probably the type you would like. They are not pushy and are really much kinder than I can be. What can I say, they have a great mom.
I can understand how really you don’t understand me because I have been rather harsh, however, and you’ve got to admit, you said some rather brute things. I will admit that my responses to you were not correct and have to ask forgiveness. Jesus would not have treated you that way, nor should I. In fact, had the real Jesus showed up, you’d probably like Him, however, I think He’d have a few private words with you about your rather caustic wit. I believe it is a gift, however, you may not understand why you possess it yet. I hope that one day you do.
In the meantime, give me another chance at being civil. We can disagree on abortion. Try to learn from each other and hopefully just do the right things. Perhaps we can be an example that hostility can be turned around even though we disagree fundamentally on a life and death issue.
Finally, you are right, my treatment and defense of you as a person should be no less than how I would treat a baby in the womb. All of us deserve respect simply because we are and I believe God cares deeply for each of us and wants the best for us.
Got to be honest. I will still work and battle for babies in the womb. Dealing with you has forced me to reexamine my methods and I thank you for that. When I start my own anti-abortion blog, I now know what my boundaries should be.
Erin –
Thank you for the report. It does take forever to download!
As fo rthe negative words that are flying around – I think this has gone far enough. We are not children. When someone says something like that, just say “Jasper, you insulted me when you used that word. I would appreciate it if you don’t use it on this blog.”
See how easy that was?
As for double standards, the other day I was called a “tool” and “stupid” and a “liar”. Nobody came to my defense and these were words directed towards me personally and not at some hollywoodite. As a matter of fact, I’ve had to put up with that particular person calling me all sorts of names and no one has come to my defense. Even when I proved I wasn’t the one who was lying, it was the other way around.
It seriously thrills me to see Cameron and HisMan getting along so well- this is the kind of thing I would love to see happen more often!
And off I go to see Pirates of the Carribean with Dan. Have a great night, everyone!
HisMan, I have to say…I’m quite impressed with the level of civility displayed here given your history with Cameron.
Valerie, I came to your defense in one post that I saw. Well, I tried to anyway. This blog can exhaust you sometimes. You are 100% right though. The insults get us nowhere! I get so angry over abortion that I do lose my own cool. When I think about those defenseless babies, it angers me to no end. I shall try to show more respect for the pro choice group.
Hey guys,
I’ve got to admit I am filled with some pride.
My daughter and her boyfriend are posted on a photographer’s website. Perhaps Cameron can now understand why I am so protective of this beautiful child of God:
Go here:
http://www.lisajcarter.com/index2.php
and click Spotlight.
“faggot” I didn’t call anybody here that name. I called Johnny Depp that name. And I don’t mean “faggot” as a homosexual slur, I meant as a another for “wimp”. and some of you people have to relax, one of my best friends is homosexual, the problem is, a alot of the college students here have had political correctness rammed down your throats.
Jasper:
I know you have a heart for God. Like me, we can get carried away by emotions and say things we don’t mean.
Let’s try to be good examples of how Christ would talk to someone. I don’t think He would use that word. I don’t agree with homosexuality either, however, using that name is not right. I know, who am I to teach when all the stuff I called Cameron yesterday? I felt bad all day yesterday for that and the Holy Spirit gave me a whippin’. I deserved it.
I love you brother. Forgive yourself. Press on.
Remember, Paul said it was a fight not a walk in the park. Most of the time we battle ourselves.
Hisman, your daughter is GORGEOUS!
HisMan, yes, your daughter is beautiful! Which photo is your favorite? Mine is #10.
Mine is number 7. She has such a pretty face.
Jill, I have to agree, No. 10 is my favorite too.
I’ve got to say, my daughter, is so special, beyond words. She loves people and people love her. She is atletic, smart and most of all, loves God unreservedley. She wants to go to the war torn part of Uganda where they kill people for being Chritians. I’ve gotta say I don’t want her to go, we’ll see. This is a special person who I am sure will bless the world.
While I’m braggin, you can go to YouTube and type in AZ Packers and watch No. 31 score just a few touchdowns.
Yes, I live the abundant life Jesus promises, more than I could ask or imagine.
Bethany,
Yes, God is good isn’t He. Children are surely a gift from God and worth any price to protect, nurture, teach and grow for the Glory of His Name.
I will HisMan, yes, emotions get the best of me somtimes too….your daughter is very pretty….
HisMan –
She is beautiful! I liked #5. She has very friendly eyes, like someone you could walk up and trust immediately. You are blessed.
Valerie,
Yes, she is like that, a very special person. Her gift is loving people.
Thank you.
Hey MK,
Hope you’re feeling OK. We love you.
Faggot!
Posted by: jasper at May 24, 2007 05:28
Jasper please explain to me how you can possibly show such a blatant disregard for humanity when not two seconds before you were being praised for your intellect? Im not really sure if you got the memo, but gay people live in the US legally. When people like you go around knocking others down, using “faggot” as a derrogatory term, you are just rallying every gay within hearing distance to stand against your every cause. Including the pro-life one. You may have the right to hold your religious beliefs and to share those with others at your discretion, but this type of insensitive slander is characteristic of the bottom of the “Christian” slumbucket.
SamanthaT:
Easy on Jasper. I think he realizes what he did was wrong. We all screw up some time, even Christians.
I agree with you though, we shouldn’t use that word. It’s very unproductive.
Wow, she’s gorgeous, HisMan.
I fear I will always be stuck with the body of a 13 year old boy, heh.
“Yes, you already told us you were in the Military John Kerry, oops I mean Dan. ….
6 years here (62 foxtrot),Army. ……and if I were President I’d have you tried for sedition.”
Well Jasper, I’ve decided to take the high road here and leave this argument with you. You honestly seem to be one of the most callow people I’ve ever talked to. Don’t ever compare me to that lying coward, John Kerry, and if you really think I should be tryed for sedition, then good on ya, because I honestly don’t care. Thanks for doing your time, thanks for telling me that I committed the crimes. Over and out, Specialist Jasper.
[PS Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo Yankee Oscar Uniform]
His Man, your daughter is truly beautiful. She’s lucky to have a dad like you.
SOMG, please stop posting nonsense. If you want to debate, debate.
Bethany, he’s another one goin off the deep end! His last few post were beyond silly.
It’s sad, really…I know he is capable of making intelligent posts too.
It’s true! God punishes anti-gay bigots by giving them gay children.
Phyllis Schlafley, Randall Terry, and soon: I predict at least one of HisMan’s kids will turn out gay.
Somg, Whatever.*yawn*
HisMan, I know I make the seventy-fourth person, but your daughter is beautiful!
OK Dan, let’s stop the poltical bickering, our intentions are good here.
HisMan:
First I must applaud you on your civility towards Cameron. Also, your daughter is beautiful. You and your wife must be very proud of her.
“[PS Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo Yankee Oscar Uniform]”
Dan, that was out of line. In the future, please refrain from using foul language against other bloggers on this site, whether you agree with them or not.
If her baby is not a political statement, then why is she consenting to an interview with the New York Times?
If she really wanted to stay out of the limelight, she would simply tell the reporter, “No thanks.”
And what, exactly is the benefit of witnessing a “simpering, prancing, sissy if not blantatly homosexual-acting pirate captain?”
And what, exactly is the benefit of witnessing a “simpering, prancing, sissy if not blantatly homosexual-acting pirate captain?”
To me, it would be the fact that he’s far more attractive, both the acter and the character, in personality and in politics as well as in looks, than any pro-life male who posts here.
And honestly, I don’t know where you’re getting the homosexuality of Captian Jack Sparrow. That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard all day, and I have been posting here since about noon.
“[PS Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo Yankee Oscar Uniform]”
Ohhhh, now I get it. I thought Dan was spouting off his credentials or some sort of military secret handshake. Rather, it was a finger flip. Dan, that’s a no-no on this site.
I thought it was rather clever and/or humorous. It took me a few seconds to realize that it was military alphabet stuff.
*giggle*
hahaha I get it now. I should have known that, both of my parents were in the army
Hisman,
My vote goes to #5…she looks like she was caught off guard and her “inner” beauty shines through…
Her eyes are smiling if that makes any sense.
Thanks for sharing.
mk
MK, *I’m shaking my finger* Get back in that bed! LOL!!
rasqual,
Sorry I didn’t get back to you yesterday! Been busy and all. =/ I’ll try to get back to your question when I’m not so dead tired.
I apologize for my previous use of the phonetic alphabet. Jasper had pushed me past the limits of my patience and I snapped. Once again, apologies to everyone, though I’m still a bit miffed, Jasper, that you compared me to John Kerry
“Once again, apologies to everyone, though I’m still a bit miffed, Jasper, that you compared me to John Kerry”
Ok, I take it back….
Dan, one other time I left a swear word up because in context it was just so funny. Your post made the second time.
But thanks for apologizing…. :)
I remember that one, Jill. :D