New Stanek WND column, “”Who’s to blame when aborting women die?”
Congrats to Laura and Cameron, whose comments made this week’s column.
Whose fault is it when aborting women die? It depends, according to abortion proponents. If the abortion was illegal, we are. If the abortion was legal, she is.
Cases in point, yesteryear’s illegal abortion of Gerri Santoro and this year’s legal abortion of Edrica Goode.
You’ve likely seen the haunting, iconic photo of Gerri Santoro, dead, naked, knees to chest with bloody bottom in the air on a hotel room floor, the result of an illegal abortion in 1964 at age 27….
Ms. Magazine called Santoro a “victim” of “butchery” by an “unskilled abortionist.”…
Flash forward 34 years to these sunny days of safe, legal abortions.
On Feb. 14, 2007, 21-year-old Edrica Goode became the third woman in four years to die after an abortion at a California mill….
According to blogger World Wide Rant, “Edrica Goode died because of her own willful negligence or general stupidity.” …
Continue reading my column today, “Who’s to blame when aborting women die?”on WorldNetDaily.com.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Much of the blame falls on the Body of Christ for teaching bad theology and bad philosophy and putting their children in Godless publick skools. That is the main reason why millions of babies have been slaughtered over the last 34 yers and many moms have died in the process.
FYI
Bob Enyart is on tour this weekend, here is the schedule. In Oak Park, IL Sunday morning!
Bob Enyart’s 4-State Focus on the Strategy Tour
(Indiana, Ohio, Kentucky, and Illinois, June 28-July 1)
You are invited to attend (or tune in) to the following events to evaluate the anti-abortion strategy used by National Right To Life, and the alternative strategy promoted by Colorado RTL and other leading pro-life ministries! Church events are free (of course), and seminar registration is $20 (and free for first-time attendees)!
Brookville Church of Christ
Thursday, June 28, 2007, 6:30 p.m.
212 E 10th St., Brookville Indiana
Focus on the Strategy II presentation
WPOS 102.3 FM (largest Christian radio station in Toledo, Ohio)
Friday, June 29, 8 a.m. interview
Talk host Mark Siffer interviews Bob Enyart in studio on pro-life strategy during their peak drive-time hour!
Answers in Genesis Creation Museum
Hebron KY, Friday, 2 p.m.
Bob interviews AiG Astrophysicist Dr. Jason Lyle for airing in Denver
Lake of the Pines Community Center
Friday, June 29 7:30 p.m.
Bob Enyart presents Focus on the Strategy II, for one hour, and then will host a Q&A session.
1931 Lake of the Pines Drive
Indianapolis IN 46234
Registration: $20, $25/couple (waived for any friends you bring who have never come to a BEL seminar!)
Lake of the Pines Community Center
Saturday, June 30 12:00 p.m.
Bob Enyart presents Focus on the Strategy II, for one hour, and then will host a Q&A session.
1931 Lake of the Pines Drive, Indianapolis
Registration: $20, $25/couple (waived for any friends you bring who have never come to a BEL seminar!)
Saturday Evening: Invite Bob!
Invite Bob Enyart to your church or group!
If you’d like to have Bob present Focus on the Strategy II to your church or group, you can arrange this by calling David or Lesa King at 317 486-8203! (This will bring visitors to your group/church!)
Westside Grace Ministries, Chicago IL
Sunday, July 1, 10:30 a.m.
Bob will teach Sunday school and present Focus on the Strategy II at Westside’s morning church service!
Barrie Center, 1011 N Lombard Ave
Oak Park, IL 60203
Damascus Road Bible Church
Sunday July 1, 5:00 p.m.
Bob will present Focus on the Strategy II at Damascus Road’s evening service!
61015 County Road 17
Goshen, IN 46526
800 727-0489
For any additional information about this trip, please call Bob Enyart’s Indiana contacts, David and Lesa King, at 317 486-8203. We pray that you can attend!
Another FYI
Bob Enyart exposes Steve Ertelt’s lies over the next two radio shows today and Thursday. Check em out live from 4-4:30 CT at http://WWW.KGOV.COM
Why must Ms. Magazine recycle a 43 year old photo? This is like displaying pictures of polio victims in iron lungs. Yes its heartrending, but its ancient history. Certainly if women dying from illegal abortion was such a problem, there would be more up to date photographs and all kinds of them.
Exactly what do we know of Ms. Santoro? Was she mentally ill? Space and good taste wouldn’t permit me to describe what I have seen people do to themselves, or let someone else do to them, sometimes because of mental illness, other times for reasons only they can understand. That’s why I don’t take this picture at face value. What exactly is the story behind it?
Yes Ms. Santoro’s death was tragic and not a very pretty sight. But I don’t supposed Holly Patterson, Edrica Goode, and Christin Gilbert lying dead on morgue slabs after enduring massive systemic infections were very pretty sights either. Perhaps Ms. Magazine would consider circulating these more up-to-date pictures.
Who’s to blame when aborting women die?
Minors must have access to abortion because they likely have unloving, uncaring parents who they can’t turn to. If parents are caring and devoted, then there is no problem, their daughters will turn to them for help.
Becky Bell dies of an alleged “illegal abortion”. This happened because of parental consent laws, certainly nothing Becky is alleged to have done, and she couldn’t turn to her parents because they were so loving and devoted that she didn’t want to hurt them.
Did we ever hear of the loe and devotion of Holly Patterson’s parents or the love and devotion of the mother of Edrica Goode?
The picture of Gerri Santoro is circulated for years after her death. She is the victim of laws making abortion illegal. She is in no way responsible for what happened to herself.
Edrica Goode lies on a morgue slab dead of a massive systemic infection after her “safe, legal” procedure. She is dead because of …”her own willfull negligence and stupidity”. She is responsible for what happened to herself.
Women dead of illegal abortion or alleged illegal abortion, even those dead for years, are in no way responsible for their deaths. They are victims of society’s backwardness and are a cause for outrage.
Women dead of legal abortion died because of their own stupidity and carelessness, otherwise they would be alive today. They deserve little more that an embarassing silence.
Do I detect a double standard here?
I quite clearly stated that I would abstain from judgement pending more details of the case…rather than running with what the filed suite “alledges.” I facetiously accused her of orchastrating a prolife martyrdom.
“Flash forward 34 years to these sunny days of safe, legal abortions.”
Jill, methinks you are missing a decade. =)
It’s simple:
Sow to the wind, reap the whirlwind…
or
You reap what you sow. Sow life, you reap life. Sow death, (abortion), you reap death.
What pro-aborts forget is that physical death is not the worse type of death, the second death is much, much worse. That’s being condemned to hell for eternity.
While we all die physically because of sin, the few will go onto eternal life because of faith in Christ and the acceptance of His offer of forgiveness. The many will go onto eternal death because of rebellion and unrepentance.
SamanthaT, 3:35p: I meant 34 years since abortion was legalized but see your point. Well taken.
Let me start by saying hi to all. I just got home from work. Okay, now for that picture. Mary is 100% right. I am sorry for her death, but this woman was 6 months into her pregnancy. She would have been better off having this child and giving it up for adoption. She was old enough to KNOW better. If I asked my mechanic boyfriend to perform rhinoplasty on me @ home, gee what in the heck do you think my nose is gonna end up looking like?? Same concept. This is surgery. MAJOR surgery @ this stage of the game. Didn’t she think that this was a really stupid idea? How about the numb skull who impregnated her and let her die?? She should have known this would kill her.
Thank goodness we are spared the post mortem pics of Holly Patterson and Edrica Goode. I also feel that Ms. Magazine is into exploitation. Out of respect for Gerry’s family, they ought to knock it off! Please put this picture to rest, and let the poor woman RIP.
Ok folks, let’s get some facts straight. First of all, here’s what happened with Gerri Santaro
http://www.rightgrrl.com/brenda2.html
Shame on you, pro-lifers, for condemning her! Would you be so quick to condemn your pro-life neighbor if you were to learn she had an abortion, but had repented?
Rather than condemn her, I would of rather seen someone help her out of relationship with an abusive husband and provide safe haven for her and her children. However, unfortuantly, there weren’t hotline services and shelters for battered women back then like there are now.
As for Becky Bell, pro-choicers have been perpetrating and re-circulating that she died of an illegal abortion for years. An autopsy revealed that she died of pnemonia with systemic infection and her pregnancy was in fact miscarried.
http://www.gargaro.com/beckybell.html
I have a more balanced piece evaluating both sides arguments and the stories of those close to her, along with the autopsy results:
http://rsnider.livejournal.com/22261.html
Also, I would like to point out that it was persons who were in favor of abortion rights preforming the abortions pre-Roe and taking advantage of women in desperate sitatuations.
“While we all die physically because of sin, the few will go onto eternal life because of faith in Christ and the acceptance of His offer of forgiveness. The many will go onto eternal death because of rebellion and unrepentance.”
Actually, the rich will probably be able to have their lives extendended indeffinately soon. With the current trends in medical care and classism, I think we’re headed towards an upper class of virtual immortals. The ones that can afford things like stem cell work, gene therapy, IVF and cloning, and are powerful enough to get around any laws preventing such things for the rest of us.
I can just see it… all the nut job christian zealots will be in an up roar about what an abomination it would be. Then we can start calling them the culture of death.
Rachel, Thank you for the post about Becky Bell. I actually believed that one for a while, even though no details of the “illegal” abortion were ever made available. How dare the pro choice crowd continue to exploit her!! That’s just as bad than condeming someone!!
meant just as bas AS condeming someone.
UGH!! Hitting wrong keys tonight!!!
“…all the nut job christian zealots”
Cameron, I would please ask you to refrain from childish name-calling and I ask that pro-lifers give the same curtesy. And as a person with a very real mental illness (major depressive disorder) amomg others, names such as “nut jobs” creates unnecessary stigma for us and is quite degrogatory as well as antiquated!
*And as a person with a very real mental illness (major depressive disorder) amomg others, names such as “nut jobs” for describing those with a mental illness creates unnecessary stigma for us and is quite degrogatory as well as antiquated!
We always say that cowardly men love abortion. Doesn’t Gerri’s boyfriend sound like an A#1 COWARD? As soon as she started dying, he ran.
Rachel, you don’t know Cameron yet. You are asking the impossible.
Not to mention, not all are the extremist you make them out to be, for many individuals who hold the sanctity of life, their beliefs fall all over the spectrum (including in whether or not they hold religious beliefs).
Eh, I maintain that the only person who is in the wrong in the Erica Goode case is the nurse practitioner who IGNORED the evidence of a vaginal infection and continued with the procedure even though she knew she was putting her patient at risk.
HI Rae. I haven’t read all the details on Erica. Did the NP know about this infection? If so, do you know why she continued?
The picture above explains what abortion does to the baby and mother. so sad.
I would have to say I am anti-abortion but I do not want to give government the right to tell someone what they can and can not do with there body.
Rachael,
You’re a tool. I remember looking up the Becky Bell story once, and one of the pro-life sites actually has a copy of the coroners report which explicately state “septic abortion.” She took a cocktail of drugs to induce an abortion, some of the pregnancy tissue remained in her uterus which became infected and was streaming out of the uterus. What the report sez about her uterus is “no sign of instrumention” or something like that (i.e. nobody inserted anything into her uterus).
If you want respectable discourse, you’ve come to the wrong place. It’s Jill Stanek for God’s sake! Everyone here is either a “coward” pre-baby killer and most certainly going to hell, exploiting women, or a slut, or they are an unabashed morals-for-self-promotion disengenuous lying sack of you know what, diseminating logically falacies and has long since abondoned any shred of humility.
@Heather4Life: The nurse noticed a thick, “creamy” discharge coming from Erica’s vagina that was indicative of an infection of some sort, yet the nurse continued with the procedure even though she knew it could be dangerous.
I don’t know why the nurse practitioner would continue with this, but anybody with half a brain should have stopped.
Thanks Rae. You’re are right.
Rae, sorry about my spelling tonight. I swear I’m not drunk. Just tired as heck.
@Cameron: Was that really necessary? I mean yes, there are times when not everybody is terribly civil to one another but I really don’t think that last comment was really called for. I think in order to get respect you have to earn it and name-calling and blathering on about how much you disagree with Jill (in such inflammatory ways) isn’t the best way to earn respect. Sure, I often disagree with Jill, but there is really no reason for name-calling, and while I admit, I do on occasion lose my temper and resort to name-calling, I try not to do so as often as I can. I think you could do the same.
@Heather4life: It’s ok, sometimes my spelling goes on the fritz as well. Today I’ve been making more mistakes than I normally do because I had to stay an extra two hours at lab today to re-do an experiment that I bombed on yesterday. It made me a sad panda, but at least I got an extra two hours to stare at my very, very good looking TA.
Cameron, do you get off on insulting people?
Why do you come here day after day to make fun of housewives? I’m honesly curious why you keep coming back. Why, of all issues, have you stumbled upon an abortion website? I understand people coming here to debate and discuss but your seem to be here only to badger. If you’re just a troll I have to give you points for being dedicated.
Do you hope to gain anything from this or are you just here to irritate?
Rae, Thank YOU! Cameron, you are incorrect. It was a spontaneous abortion aka miscarriage. She did not self induce it. Google her name. Somewhere in there is an actual coroner’s report. The cause of death was pneumonia.
Rae,
Yes, and a La Crosse team raped a black girl.
It’s what the law suit filed against PP “alledges.” Perhaps the nurse did indeed make an aweful mistake, but when this trial actually starts I suspect the judge and jury are going to see some additional evidence or qualifications to the “alledged” situation that will make this case a little less easy to come to any glib conclusion about.
*claps for Rae*. Sorry that you had to redo lab!
For example, maybe the nurse told her that there was thick creamy discharged, informed her of risk of infection (assuming she’d be back the next day to remove dialators and see if antibiotics were going to be necessary), and asked if she still wanted to continue (knowing full well that waiting out an infection pushes abortion date later and later and increases risk again). It’s amazing how different stories become when we actually have all the evidence… the consent forms, and such.
Cameron, honest to God you don’t even phase me much anymore. Your shock value is wearing off. You clearly hone in on the new people. They will catch on eventually as well. I generally just skim your posts and move on. I’ll sit back and wait for your insults. I’m used to them. I’d rather read what the mature pro choice people have to say.
Cameron,
PPOR (Provide proof or retract)!
I remember looking up the Becky Bell story once, and one of the pro-life sites actually has a copy of the coroners report which explicately state “septic abortion.” She took a cocktail of drugs to induce an abortion, some of the pregnancy tissue remained in her uterus which became infected and was streaming out of the uterus. What the report sez about her uterus is “no sign of instrumention” or something like that (i.e. nobody inserted anything into her uterus).
“or they are an unabashed morals-for-self-promotion disengenuous lying sack of you know what”
Cam, thats the best compliment you gave me in a while! why are you being so nice?
hmmm, I’ve missed alot during my “mini” vacation…
Kisses to Cam and Rae…
If there had been an infection couldn’t that have caused sepsis?…. Rae?
hi midnite. Rae, I really didn’t finish my question. Couldn’t the infection cause confusion. Perhaps this was why she blew off her appointment. You seem knowledgeable in the OB area.
“With the current trends in medical care and classism, I think we’re headed towards an upper class of virtual immortals. The ones that can afford things like stem cell work, gene therapy, IVF and cloning, and are powerful enough to get around any laws preventing such things for the rest of us.”
…by Karl Marx “The Communist Manifesto”
‘Ello Heather…
Hi Midnite at the Oasis!
Rea,
Look at the links she provided. She’s a tool, and I have no problem pointing it out. I’ll humor her request regarding “nut job,” though.
Heather,
Why didn’t Becky go to a hospital after her “spontaneous” miscarriage. Isn’t that what people do when such things are unintended??? But, if it was intentional, and she was expecting the miscarriage, and trying to hide it…. even you can manage this one.
Lauren,
I’m here because I find the stupid stuff people say here particularly amusing. Like the Becky Bell thing. HisMan in particular. Alas, I do go over board making fun of you all, and to your credit, you’ve been a sobering reminder of such.
“Cam, thats the best compliment you gave me in a while! why are you being so nice?”
LOL.
That was actually funny Jasper.
Cam, do still believe that fetuses fly down from the sky and implant themselves into a woman’s unvolunteered body part ?
WAIT, they’re aliens now? Well I’ll be damned..
@Heather4life: I’m not really too knowledgeable on OB things, I’m not a doctor, I’m just a college student, but I know that if there is an infection, it can cause confusion (especially septic infections).
@Cameron: I agree, I do plan to wait until the trial and more evidence comes about, but you have to realize that if the nurse KNEW there was an infection and that there was evidence, she was in the wrong for continuing the procedure. I think it is ridiculous that people are blaming the victim (even if she did lead to her own demise by not following medical instruction, the nurse still endangered her life by inserting the laminaria when there was remote evidence of infection).
Cameron, 8:08p, said: “For example, maybe the nurse told her that there was thick creamy discharged, informed her of risk of infection (assuming she’d be back the next day to remove dialators and see if antibiotics were going to be necessary), and asked if she still wanted to continue (knowing full well that waiting out an infection pushes abortion date later and later and increases risk again).”
Camalama, LMAO, to coin your favorite phrase.
Come to think of it, only in an abortion mill would such an incredibly stupid and dangerous nurse work.
Cameron, Becky was pregnant. She was afraid to tell her parents. That is fact. This is the part of the story that was conveniently left out. Becky went out partying after she discovered she was pregnant. It has been said that she went to relieve some stress. She was trying to sort through her thoughts about the unintended pregnancy. Becky became ill with a high fever. She really didn’t know what was wrong, so she took Tylenol. Her condition deteriorated rapidly after she caught the fever. Her parents rushed her to the hospital. Unfortunately, she died. The cause of death was pneumonia. The doctors also told Becky’s parents that she’d suffered a miscarriage.[possibly brought on by the raging infection] That’s when people began to say that she’d had an illegal abortion. However, the autopsy ruled that out. Former abortionist Bernard Nathanson reviewed the facts. He even said that Becky did NOT die from an abortion.
Cam,
Look at the links she provided. She’s a tool, and I have no problem pointing it out. I’ll humor her request regarding “nut job,” though.
I’m still waiting for you to provide proof. Name-calling won’t cut it for me. And besides, did you even look at the links and do you really even look at both sides objectivly, or do just use ignorance is bliss as a reason not to view websites which hold beliefs which differ from your own?
Rachael,
There’s a lot of prolife tools cut’n and paste’n pretty much the exact same stuff you’ve brought to the table here (i.e. cyber legend in which everyone sites each other, if anything, but never a primary source), and I can’t seem to narrow the search. I did however find numerous prolife sites actually quoting the coroner’s conclusion “septic abortion”
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1T4SUNA_en___US217&q=%22Becky+Bell%22+%22septic+abortion%22+report
and one site trying to make a big deal about what the coroner said in 1990….
http://thegameiam.livejournal.com/93963.html
“Although his autopsy report attributed the cause of death to “septic abortion with pneumonia,” the physician who performed the autopsy stated in 1990, “I cannot prove [Becky Bell] had an illegal abortion. I cannot prove she had anything but a spontaneous abortion” (Dr. Pless, quoted by reporter Joe Frolik in the Cleveland Plain Dealer, 9/9/90)”
Again, I’ve been through this one before, within the year, and I’ve read so many pro-life versions that two things are abundantly clear; she had indeed miscarried, and she did not seek medical attention after doing so. Do the math.
oops I forgot. Rae, you are going into peds. Anyway, you are right. Infections can cause confusion. Amanda is in the OB field.
Any one need a Pysch? I am right here and will have no charge (seeing as I dont technically have a license yet), but I am licensed for Crisis Interventions (i.e. debriefings)…
“I’m still waiting for you to provide proof. Name-calling won’t cut it for me. And besides, did you even look at the links and do you really even look at both sides objectivly, or do just use ignorance is bliss as a reason not to view websites which hold beliefs which differ from your own?”
It’s a fine line between overt name calling and accurate but unwelcome characterization. Do I have to actually call you name so you understand that?
@Heather4life: Actually I’m not going into medicine anymore, while I’ll still be in the medical field per se, I’m not planning to go into medical school anymore, instead I’m planning on going into Public Health and I’m thinking of going into STDs and HIV/AIDS prevention as I’m planning to work for the State Health Department, specifically at the STD/HIV-AIDS clinic in Minneapolis. Hopefully.
“Any one need a Pysch?”
Yes, I do Midnite, I’m Pro-choice. Can you help me with my illness?
Rae, that’s still a great field. My friend has HIV. He’s really in bad shape.
“I’m planning on going into Public Health and I’m thinking of going into STDs and HIV/AIDS prevention”
push abstinance education…..
Hi jasper.
Ok, well I’ve got a full post w/ citations in mod que, which I posted about half-an hour back, so before you go accusing I don’t provide sources and I’m just following what others say…
And Cameron, apparently you are the one who needed to do the research, I quote you earlier said, “She took a cocktail of drugs to induce an abortion, some of the pregnancy tissue remained in her uterus which became infected and was streaming out of the uterus.” So you retract your earlier comment?
Jill,
I find it incredibly telling that you, a former nurse ran off for god only really knows what, made no attempt to qualify my uneducated speculations about what might have actually happened with the dialators and Erica.
Thank you, your silence is more informative than anything you could have said.
Hi Heather
Wow, Jasper..
You must think homosexuality is a mental disease as well.
I am now remembering why I dont like you that much, and I didnt miss you at all on my mini vacation.
cameron, though it’s a bit sad you see something we take so seriously as entertainment, it does explain your motives. Thanks for understanding that the insults went a bit to far.
As for Becky Bell-I know nothing about the case. I do know, however, that immediate medical intervention isn’t necessary during a miscarriage. Expectant management is the norm, I miscarried at home and had a blood draw 2 weeks later to confirm. I was told to go to the hospital if I hemoraged or seemed infected.
It isn’t a crazy assumption that Becky simply did not recognize the symptoms of infection.
@Jasper: I’m sorry, but no, I’m not going to do abstinence only.
I probably won’t be going into that type of education, I’ll more than likely go into studying various methods of HIV/AIDS and STD prevention. Either that or I’ll be researching treatment options for HIV/AIDS. But I do plan to look into working with HIV/AIDS and educating how the disease operates and spreads. 
“Any one need a Pysch? I am right here and will have no charge (seeing as I dont technically have a license yet), but I am licensed for Crisis Interventions (i.e. debriefings)…”
Hey Midnight…
**blows kisses
Hello! Most of us have a life away from our computers. Didn’t you think for a second she could be involved in something more important such as tasks around the house, errands, sleeping, eating, or working!?
Rachel, nice to meet you! Cameron hasen’t been interested in facts since he’s been here. Just wanted to clue you in. I don’t care for the way he name calls either. He used to call us retards. How insulting to people who actually are retarded and can’t help it.
“You must think homosexuality is a mental disease as well. I am now remembering why I dont like you that much, and I didnt miss you at all on my mini vacation”
well I missed you, and thats no way to treat one of your patients…
Thanks Heather, it’s nice to meet you too
You seem like one of the better voices of pro-life reason around here.
*Catches Cam’s kiss & blows one back*
Jasper,
Last time I checked, a Doctor didnt have to like their patient, just as long as doctor patient confidentiality remains in tact.
And BTW, I think your nose just grew an inch, you didnt *really* miss me, Pinnocio (sp?)
I read that this is the third abortion related death to come out of all of California in the past four years.
That’s very rare. It’s a very small number of patient deaths. Your risk of being killed driving to work is greater than your risk of dying from an abortion in California.
And as for Cameron, I work with kids all day at my job and don’t feel like having to deal with them at home online
I miss California….
“@Jasper: I’m sorry, but no, I’m not going to do abstinence only”
I agree, we don’t want to teach people soemthing that will actually work…
I despise drinking water…. HUMPH
Yes, I did miss you midnight, now please give me a prescription for my pro-choice illness….
oh wow this argument again?
Why do I feel like us PL’s and PC’s are constantly going around and around in circle. Like a merry go round…
That’s very rare. It’s a very small number of patient deaths. Your risk of being killed driving to work is greater than your risk of dying from an abortion in California.
Still, that doesn’t negligate the importance of a standard of care, properly qualified staff, and licensing for any outpatient surgical facilities.
“I agree, we don’t want to teach people soemthing that will actually work…”
And heaven forbid we teach them how to be SAFE if they’re going to do it at all.
Yes, abstinence is the only sure way to prevent pregnancy and to remain STD-free, but I think it’s far better to be educated about these things.
“I despise drinking water…. HUMPH”
All I drink anymore is bottled water. I very much dislike tap water.
But I agree it looks as if the nurse may be responsible for the death, if she knew of a foul-smelling discharge.
You just opened yourself for all sorts of stuff Jasper.
I recomend you do lots of things, but wouldnt dare say such things in public (being a southern belle and all)…
How about you be nice for a little bit, so I my euphoric state from the beach doesnt disappear so quickly…
SMOG, How many women have died at the hands of Edward Allred? He is a racist abortionist. He’s killed tons of women.
Midnite,
You went to the beach!? Oh, I’m so jealous. I haven’t been to the beach since I moved to this lovely landlocked state 8-9 years ago.
I loved going on overcast days to collect sea shells.
Allred has several California ab. clinics.
Heather I hate tap water. I refuse to drink it, but I dont like any water really. But I am being forced to drink it at the moment unfortunately…
@Jasper: *sigh* Abstinence only education doesn’t work there have been many, many studies disproving the “effectiveness” of abstinence only education. Would you like me to post them?
Midnite,
I won’t drink it either. It’s probably silly of me, but when we run out of bottled water, I’ll just find spare change and go to one of the 25 cent soda machines outside a grocery store rather than drink tap water.
Why do you have to drink it?
Heather honey, I am landlocked as well, but it is only a three and half hour drive to lovely home (they say home is where the heart is, & dont think mine ever left Gulf Shores). Drive to the Ham, and then I’ll take you to the beach
I don’t know anything about Allred. How many has he lost?
I am prone to UTI’s, and have felt like one was comming on for the better part of the day. So I took some cranberry pills and started chugging water like I gotta pass a drug test, lol. I hate those things with a passion and would rather stop it early..
Quick question:
How do y’all get italics and bolds in your post exactly??
Lauren,
I don’t know what “expectant management” means.
I do know that Becky became pregnant in the spring and died in the fall shortly after some heavy partying. So it was probably an alarming mess. She’d also scheduled an abortion in nearby Kentucky, for the day after she died, where she didn’t need parental consent, so she clearly intended to get rid of it. She was probably trying to induce for fear that she’d never pull off the Kentucky trip without someone finding out, then never canceled.
Midnite,
Italic – text
Bold – text
I’m also prone to UTI’s. They’re horrible =/
test
and test again
Heather you ROCK!!
I know! UTI’s are the most horrible experience (besides child birth)
Somgy,
His name is Fast Eddie Allred, nobody does abortions faster:
http://www.operationrescue.org/?p=572
So far as we know, the following women have died as a result of abortion procedures preformed at Allred’s clinics:
Denise Holmes, age 24, 1970
Patricia Chacon, age 16, 1984
Mary Pena, age 43, 1984
Josefina Garcia, age 37, 1985
Laniece Dorsey, age 17, 1986
Joyce Ortenzio, age 32, 1988
Tami Suematsu, age 19, 1988
Susan Levy, age 30, 1992
Deanna Bell, age 13, 1992
Christina Mora, age 18, 1994
Kimberly Neil, 2000
Chanelle Bryant, age 22, 2004
http://realchoice.blogspot.com/2007/03/anniversary-one-of-dozen-dead-women-at.html
What’s up with this Allred campaign Heather4skin?
Every day. You’re starting to sound like jasper and his would you kill a 40 week old post-fetus stuff.
Wait, let me correct myself before I get jumped all over. Child birth in itself is not horrible, I am talking about the pain part
(should’ve made that clear)
Midnite,
Yes, yes I am :P.
I haven’t had one in since around Christmas thankfully. They’re one of the few things that can turn me into a big baby, just because they make me so miserable.
Yeah, I want to cry when I get them. SOOO I am trying to head this one off before it becomes full blown…
That “am” should be “do”. My bad.
Cameron expectant management means go home and let nature take its course. It’s “Watchful Waiting”. If nature isn’t taking its course or an infection develops you go to the hospital. Otherwise you miscarry at home.
Here’s a little study on it.
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/324/7342/873
BTW, I’m not big on tap water either. So I tend to get my fluids from juice, sprite zero, and milk. However, I do enjoy the occasional bottled water and I especially like the flavored waters, my favorite being Gaterade’s Propel.
I need to invest in the cranberry pills….
I’m going by the health department tomorrow to see about birth control to take care of that deal with being stuck in bed in the fetal position for two days every month thing. I’m a bit sick of it.
Rachael,
Propel is wonderful :). Too bad it’s so expensive compared to regular bottled water, though :(.
OOOH The berry and kiwi strawberry are da bomb!!
I love the kiwi strawberry :).
I think lemon is my favorite though.
yuck, I only like putting lemon slices in water, I dont like the pre flavored. All though I must admist, I normally only drink it if it is flavored, no regualr crap for mwah
I don’t like lemon slices in water.
I’ve gotten used to drinking the regular bottled water. Darren and I both drink a lot of it, and a 24-pack of bottled water for less than $5….
Heather, I’d go to an OB who specializes in Endometriosis. Birthcontrol’s just a band aid. There are treatments that can remove the offensive tissue and reduce pain. There are even natural remidies that help alot.
I have really terrible Endo. so if you have any questions or want some tips I’m here. (Of course I’m not a doctor).
I like tap water. But Minnesota tap water is pretty good.
Lauren,
Right now, I’d be happy with just a band-aid until I can actually afford a doctor (and that means getting the morons who do the whole TennCare thing to actually return my calls).
…And then there’s the little bonus of preventing pregnancy.
Honestly, though, my main concern is getting rid of the pain, and keeping my periods under a week long (they last a little over a week). It wasn’t this bad until I hit about 10th grade.
Lauren,
The only corect way to diagnos endometreosis is to have exploratory surgery. Beofre they even think about the surgery they try diff. kinds of BC pills and light pain killers first.
I have endomighttryosis; the foolish urge to try an endo every time i’m on a bike.
Oddly enough though, this month there wasn’t any crippling pain. Just minor discomfort a few days before it started, and then it was over by the second day.
BC will make them lighter and not near as long. If you feel the need you can do what I do. I take mine for four months consecutively, and only have a period once every three months, or four times a year. IT glorious. I shall never go back to the once a month thing..
Eh. I think not having it every month would make me incredibly nervous.
Nah, been doing it since I was 17. Condoms are also used every time, so I dont fret that much. I seriously couldnt handle it every month again. For three days I am in the fetal position in my bed with a heating pad and 10mg loratabs and I am still crying and in horrible pain. I cant function for those three days. And it’s 100% better than it used to be, believe it or not.
Even being on birth control and using condoms, I’d still freak myself out somehow. I tend to worry a lot.
But hopefully they’ll be able to help me at the health department tomorrow.
Yes, exploratory surgery is the only way to diagnosis, but birth control should never be a first line of defense because it does nothing to correct the problem. Thus, when you go off the endo is back. Lupron is much better at actually healing, but it has nasty menapause side effects.
I don’t know if you knew this, but a very high percentage of people with endo have gluton sensitivities. Taking gluton out of the diet helps greatly for some people.
I found a wonderful topical pain reliever called Menastil. It’s wonderful. You feel a warming sensation like icyhot but no pain.
I have a similar experience if I eat too much cheeese.
blah gluton=gluten. My brain went out the window for a bit.
What food can gluten be found in…?
Aww poor Cameron, he needs a uterus so he can writhe in pain too!
Jill,
Great post on world net daily. It’s too bad you left Cam’s name off of his comments though….
You sum it up nicely at the end:
“Two women died of late-term abortions. Pro-lifers mourn all four lives lost. Pro-aborts mourn only the one that furthers their agenda and trivialize or ridicule the others.”
Lauren,
I orginally got put on the BC for ovarian cysts. My cramps got worse the older I got. The Doc didnt want to put me on anything that would kick in an early menopause (I dont have kids yet). So he played around with differnt kinds of BC pills and mild pain killers. Last Dec he did the exploratory surgery, which thankfully I dont have it. I did have excessive scar tissue from my many cysts and having my apendix taken out. So while he was in there he removed it. They’ve gotten a little better since then, but I think I am just cursed when it comes to that area…
Pasta and bread mostly, Heather. Though you can get gluten free both. Gluten is used as a thickening agent in some random things, but they generally say on the label if that is the case.
Baked goods are dangerous because they are generally made with wheat flour. Wheat Gluten is the problem. Luckily, there’s all sorts of alternative flours that you can buy.
Lauren,
Noooooooooo!!!!!!
I love pasta and bread :(. In fact, I’m eating blueberry muffins right now.
This makes me sad.
From what I understand the lupron menopause is temporary, but that might not be the case for every woman.
Sorry to ear about your cysts. I have them too and I know they’re terrible. The thought of one bursting makes me shiver.
I feel cursed too, but I try not to speak that sort of thing on to myself. I’m just trying to get better. It seems that I have underlying autoimmune issues that will hopefully be taken care of.
I’m glad you were able to find a little bit of relief.
The gluten free pasta is actually really good. Especiall the spelt kind. Mmm spelt.
You can still have muffins, there are whole bakeries that sell nothing but gluten free goods. You just have to find a store that sells GF things and look for the good stuff.
It was really hard for me to switch at first, but now I don’t even miss it. Of course that could be because when I try to “cheat” my body reacts really violently.
Thank God I’ve never had one burst! My friend did once, she said it was horrible. As soon as I can get a definitive answer on this cancer crap I should know whether or not children are possible for me or not.
Are your doctors giving you the run around?
Rachael asked
“Shame on you, pro-lifers, for condemning her! Would you be so quick to condemn your pro-life neighbor if you were to learn she had an abortion, but had repented?”
All murderers must be publicly condemned and executed after a fair and speedy trial. The personal forgiveness that anyone might show to that woman IF she repented is an entirely separate matter. The criminal justice system does not have the option to forgive crime or let it go unpunished.
Lauren,
I live in a fairly small town. The only “bakeries” we have are in grocery stores.
Seriously…we have Wal-Mart, Food Lion, Bi-Lo, and Kroger.
I won’t be changing my diet around until I’m able to see a doctor though.
Lauren:
He gives me the run around and “sugar coats” everything. But he’s the best damn OBGYN in the state of Alabama so I put up with his nonsense for now…
I get alot of gluten free stuff at Albertson’s. I know Wal-Mart has some in my area but not that much.
I would try to have the health services NP refer you to someone. I know they usually just say “period pain…here’s some birthcontrol” but that is soo dangerous. If you *do* have endo it only gets worse with time so putting off diagnosis and treatment only makes it *more* painful in the long run.
Sorry, I know I seem like the reproductive health nazi, I’ve just had lots of bad experiences trying to get help for ridiculous pain.
Blah, I hate sugar coating. I just want to be told what I have so I know what I’m dealing with. I hope you get some answers soon.
Eh, I make them talk to mi madre. I just get upset and start crying, so she’s the one who talks to the Doc and then relays the info to mwah. It’s easier and not as emotional when she tells me for some reason..
Zeke, you are a crazy person…go move to Iran, they like your ideas.
I am a little confuse, what exactly is he saying?
Nah, it’s understandable, Lauren.
I’m probably going to have to make do with birth control for the time being, though. Hell, I’m still trying to pay off a debt from the last ER visit (I was unemployed at the time, and no one would ever return my call, among other things).
I’m just hoping I don’t get someone who refuses to give it to me based on their beliefs, you know? Apparently that’s been a problem here in the past year or so.
I’m so sorry you’re going through all of that Midnite. You’ll be in my prayers.
Heather, Ugh. I know ER bills can be really steap. I’m so thankful that my husband has really good insurance at his job. Something really needs to be done so that healthcare is accessable to everyone.
I wouldn’t worry too much about not being able to get ther perscription filled. Most pharmacies will refer if they aren’t able to fill something themselves.
Alright I am off to bed. Goodnight everyone!!
alright off to bed.
Goodnight midnite! I shall be heading to bed soon, myself (gotta work in the morning)
Lauren,
I’ll do what I have to in order to get it, I’m just hoping I don’t have to go to a billion people to do so, you know?
Goodnight, Midnite.
I think I might try to sleep as well. I have to be up in a few hours.
hey all just a thought, sometimes, chiropractors can help a lot with the typical pain during your period!
the trick is to find one that has researched these things and continues their education, and cares about their patient!
Ugh, my last monthly curse was awful, I was in so much pain, it was the worst one I’ve had in months (since I tried Seasonale last fall). I was in near constant pain for the entire time. Arrrrrgh. I’m seriously considering abalation (sp?).
abalation? what’s that?
They more or less cauterize your uterine lining by “burning” it off and reducing the amount of lining in your uterus which lessens periods (even gets rid of them for a period of time). Unfortunately this only lasts for about 10 years because eventually new lining forms so the procedure has to be repeated, but I would think it’s worth it. I’m going to have a chat with my doctor about it in August.
wow
Cameron,
I discussed this with you on a previous thread. The term “abortion” is medical terminology for miscarriage. A “septic abortion” is medical terminology for a miscarriage with retained fetal tissue resulting in infection. The autopsy report is describing a miscarriage. She took a cocktail of drugs to induce an abortion? What were the drugs? She had attended a party. Could she have ingested illegal drugs there? Also, why did she ask her best friend and confidant Heather Clark to arrange a legal abortion for her in another state 3 days after the alleged “illegal abortion”? Tragically she died that day of septic pneumonia.
By the way Cameron, women don’t run to the hospital when they have spontaneous abortions, in fact they seldom do, only when there are complications. Becky may have simply seen no need to go. What for? Also, she may have been fearful of her parents being informed she miscarried.
By the way Cameron, I saw a woman arrive in the emergency room a few days ago with septic pneumonia. She just didn’t “feel right”. She, like Becky had also been sick a few days and brushed it off as “the flu”. She is presently fighting for her life in very critical condition. She’s only 30 years old and was perfectly healthy. That Becky and her family did not realize how gravely ill she was and that she died so suddenly from septic pneumonia is no surprise.
Rachael,
Welcome to the blog and thank you for your excellent links. I hope you did not think I was condemning Geri Santoro. I did not mean to come across like that at all. I sympathize with you concerning the term “nut job”. My daughter is also mentally ill and it was so hurtful when all people could do was laugh at and talk about her.
My best wishes for you. I hope your treatment is making your life happier and easier. My heart goes out to you.
Mark,
What are police departments, courts, legislatures, prisons, laws and penalties but the government telling us what we can and can’t do with our bodies?
Cameron, why do I bring up Allred? Weren’t you the one who said that you wanted to help minorities? It was you. So, how can you defend a man who hates minorities and wants to kill them all? I will keep bringing him up. I love exposing him for what he really is. A racist abortionist!! Do your homework.
Cameron, Becky Bell may have been contemplating an abortion out of state, but abortion is not what killed her! The pro choice crowd just jumped on the story to help keep abortion legal. They USED her. Even in death , they are still USING and EXPLOITING her!! Her poor parents don’t even want the pro choice crowd bothering them anymore. Why? Because they were USED too!
midnite- this might be a little GRAPHIC for some people on here- but relieving yourself both before and after sex cuts down on your risk for UTI’s. I used to have a horrible problem with them, then started doing that on my nurse’s advice. Haven’t had one since.
Rachael,
I read your link concerning Gerri Santoro, that she was a victim of domestic violence. Her situation was indeed very tragic. We have to remember that 43 years ago, there were no shelters to protect victims of violence and certainly no 1-800 numbers that women called for help. Domestic violence was a shameful secret for a woman and a husband’s “right”. There were also no CPCs for her to call for assistance. We handled situations like this at the CPC where I volunteered. Tragically, her selection of a boyfriend was every bit as bad as her choice of a husband.
This point in time is thankfully “ancient history” and abortion advocates who have exploited this tragedy to promote legal abortion cannot continue to compare 1964 to the present. The time is long overdue to treat this poor woman with the dignity and respect she deserves, and certainly has not received, and let her rest in her grave.
Jasper, 10:03p: Thanks for positive comment on column.
And I don’t generally name names of people I quote from my blog in my column so as not to draw embarrassment or trouble for the commenter.
Heather4life,
Why should Becky and her family be treated with anymore respect than Gerri Santoro and her family? Is this a picture of me or my mother or my sister that I would want the world to see? These women are martyrs and their tragic deaths are going to be played for all they are worth.
Heather, I also visited a pro-choice feminist site where they were displaying the pictures of women, and not many of them, who had died of illegal abortion. Some had died 60+ years ago. Another example of their desperation for martyrs. Certainly if women were dying of illegal abortion in such great numbers than dragging these long dead women out of their graves would not be necessary.
Mary, Becky Bell’s picture is everywhere! What on earth for? The pro choice crowd is still trying to go for “shock value” with the picture of Ms. Santaro. Even Jill said that Ms. Magazine cared “not a wit about her” Yet, they will continue to use her picture for their cause. You NEVER hear about legal abortion deaths at all. The news will never make mention of such things. Women are dying from legal abortions today! Where is the outcry from the femenists??
*sigh*
All of us women on BC to control our monthly curses…mine is HORRIBLE. If I wasn’t on BC, I’d be getting my curse every other week, completely incapacitated from pain. There is history of cysts in my family, but I’m lucky not to have them (yet). I do, however, have dysmennorrhea, which is just a dysfunction of the menstrual cycle…which can be controlled with BC. It’s possible that the hormonal difficulties I’m experiencing are from a thyroid problem, but it’s unlikely (I’m thin and healthy otherwise, so no underactive thyroid). The problem is most likely just dysfunctioning ovarian cycles. That is why BC needs to control them.
Plus the added fact of NO PREGNANCY.
Lyssie,
It so great to old and broken down like me!! Those are but long ago memories.
Mary!!! How many times do I have to tell you to stop making fun of yourself!? You are not “old” and “broken down”. If you’re talking about menopause, then I guess my 50-year old mom must be old and broken down…nothing of the sort!!
Mary, you are a far cry from broken down! You are just aging gracefully. You seem super intelligent too! I’m so glad you post here.
Heather4life and Lyssie,
You both make my day. Thank you. I am in fact very blessed with my family, a job I love, the ability to be physically active, and wonderful friends like the two of you and everyone else on this blog. Lyssie, if you resemble your mother then judging from your picture she must be one very attractive lady and going strong.
You are both very intelligent ladies who add very much to this blog and I always enjoy talking with you both. We may not always agree, but that is what makes this blog so interesting and addicting, n’est pas? Oh-oh, English only, now I’ll get Jill mad at me!
Mary, do you know anything about Elanore Smeal? Do you know if she ever had an abortion?
Heather4life,
Sorry, but I don’t know if she ever did or not.
Mary, thanks. She’s such an outspoken feminist and abortion supporter. I was just wondering.
Mary and Heather4skin,
Becky was pregnant. Becky didn
Convoluted Cameron, can you show me some facts? I have never heard this story. Proof please!
Becky died from the same form of pneumonia that killed muppeteer Jim Henson!
Cameron:
Please apologize to Heather4Life for addressing her as Heather4skin, an obvious reference to the male organ in your last post.
Cameron, where’s your concern for women that you can selectively pretend to defend some and verbally abuse others? Your hypocrisy does not go unnocticed and points to more evidence of who you truly are.
Was this intentional or just evidence of the spirit of sexual perversion that possesses you?
Oh Cameron, ye who have no clue. Sin without consequences? Is that what you propose?
Doesn’t matter right, because in a few years, medical science will cause us to all live forever, right? They can’t even cure the common cold Pointdexter or should I call you Cameron the friendly ghost or should I say phantom?
Again, welcome to Cameron World.
Cameron, Oh you are such an expert. I will put my $ on the medical examiner and other medical experts and their findings. I think Bernard Nathanson, of all people, would know an illegal abortion if he saw one.
Okay, so Im getting the impression from the posts that the pro-life camp feels this way: if a woman dies from illegal abortion, it is her fault. If she dies from a legal abortion, it is the fault of the pro-choicers. How is that any different from the stance of the pro-choicers indicating that we are to blame in the deaths due to illegal abortions?
Pro-life means pro-life. It doesnt mean pro-life of people who agree with you only. It doesnt mean pro- life of people who do not support abortion.It doesnt mean pro-life of people who do what you think they should, or pro-life of fetuses regardless of their mothers’ physical wellbeing. Either youre pro-life or you arent.
Thank-you for the advice pro-choice SamathaT…
real pro-lifers don’t vote for pro-choice canidates
Well stated SamanthaT:
I am even for Cameron’s life. I would even protect that little rascal.
More importantly, I am very concerned about a person’s spiritual state after death.
To be pro-life I think means that one is concerned about both the physical and spiritual sides of life.
hmmmm what to say what to say…
I thought SamanthaT was pro-life. Am I missing something?
Samantha- We mourn for all life that is taken prematurely. I don’t think anyone here sees the death of a woman from an illegal abortion as anything other than tragic.
She is pro-life, but I see the point she is making…
Heather4life,
“Can you show me some facts.”
LMAO
These are the points that seem to remain most consistant among the ubiquitous and mostly inconsistant prolife rants about the case. Is there something in particular you find challenging? Maybe you’d like to suggest she never really existed now?
“I will put my $ on the medical examiner and other medical experts and their findings. I think Bernard Nathanson, of all people, would know an illegal abortion if he saw one.”
ROFLMAO
You mean the one that was hired by prolife to look at the report filed by the one that actually looked at the body, and came to a different conclusion about the body?
HerMan,
You’re a heretic and will burn in hell.
According to my sacred texts, currently a work in progress; He [me] is granted unconditional favor by the great mysteries and dieties of yore, and can do no wrong.
Asking me to apologize is akin to saying I have flaws, but it is written, in actual words, inspired by the breath of all gods, otherwise. Of course, since it’s written now, it must be true, and you are a heretic for not acknowledging such.
“Okay, so Im getting the impression from the posts that the pro-life camp feels this way: if a woman dies from illegal abortion, it is her fault. If she dies from a legal abortion, it is the fault of the pro-choicers. How is that any different from the stance of the pro-choicers indicating that we are to blame in the deaths due to illegal abortions?”
Edrica Goode (& baby’s) death= shouldn’t have happened. The nurse practitioner should have known better than to have done what she did when Edrica had an infection.
Gerri Santaro (& baby’s) death= shouldn’t have happened. I don’t know what the solution would have been since her situation was so complicated. However, I do know that the solution would not have been a “safe, legal abortion”. This wouldn’t have solved the problem of fear and desperation she had with her abusive husband. This would only serve to victimize her further.
Neither case should have happened, and neither case was the “fault” of pro-lifers, however, at 1 case was directly the fault of pro-choice.
If legal abortion was not available, Edrica Goode could have continued her pregnancy and could be alive today with her baby. She could have found support.
If a pro-choice nurse had not made a decision to stick those laminara sticks inside her despite an obvious vaginal infection, she would still be around.
Gerri Santaro’s death isn’t even a pro-choice pro-life issue. I doubt that either pro-choice or pro-life could have helped in the situation.
She was desperate and she wasn’t thinking rationally, in my opinion. What happened to her and her baby was tragic. She should have been loved and supported and taken away somewhere where she could have had her child without fear. Instead her boyfriend made a choice to butcher her and leave her to die, along with their child. I think that is tragic. That someone in any situation ever feels that the only way to prevent abuse to themselves is to kill their own child. How sad.
Cameron believes in hell now…I think were making progress with him…
Most adults know that any surgery may result in death. I was watching a TV program the other day about simple and common plastic surgeries that resulted in severe disfigurations and deaths. If you go to have an appendectomy, you COULD die. Once you consent to allow someone to operate on your body, you are accepting any consequences that may follow. I am sorry that all of these women are dead. I just feel that Geri and her boyfriend were very careless! They weren’t even using any sterile equipment. She allowed him to attempt an illegal abortion on her. He tried it. I’d say it’s 50/50 in this case.
Callous Cameron, Nathanson had not converted when he viewed the Becky Bell autopsy results. Do you think the state MA conspired with other medical experts and lied about her cause of death? That would be illegal!
Cameron,
Yes she did arrange to have a legal abortion. She asked her friend to make the arrangements after she allegedly had an “illegal” one. Dahhh. Really think about that one. And no Cameron, a spontaneous abortion at 12 weeks is not necessarily a “traumatic and bloody mess” especially if the fetus died days or weeks earlier or even if the fetus is intact. She may not have sought out medical attention because it may have been nothing worse than a heavy period and/or she may have been fearful of her parents finding out. No Cameron, there is no evidence she died of infected tissue inside her but rather that she died of pneumonia and sepsis, the same type of infection that killed Jim Henson and nearly killed actress Elizabeth Taylor, neither of whom I’m certain had had abortions, legal or otherwise, before becoming ill. I also pointed out that her delay in going to the hospital could well have been that neither she nor her parents thought she was that seriously ill, a not uncommon mistake people make with this type of pneumonia. Certainly her parents would have taken her if they had any reason to think she was gravely ill. I certainly didn’t run my children to the ER every time they were sick or even thought there was much cause for concern. People get sick. As Becky became progessively sicker, they took her to the hospital and she willingly went. I gave a recent example of a woman who showed up at our hospital with the same type of pneumonia who is now fighting for her life. She walked into the ER complaining of “just not feeling right” and had “flu” symptoms that she had brushed off as nothing to be concerned about for the previous few days.
You talk about all the different versions of events, I’ve only seen the autopsy reports and expert opinions, all of which have been consistent. You say no one really knows if she induced a miscarriage and we need to get that through our thick skulls. Cameron, you said in a previous post(6/27 7:53PM) that “she took a cocktail of drugs to induce an abortion”. So which is it?
Anyway, I hope this registers as going over this time and again with you is tiresome.
Mary, thank you! Apparently Cameron is not alone in his beliefs. If he were, there would never be another picture of Becky at a PC ralley.*sigh*
A fricken girl died, and given the choice between dismissing it and letting happen again, or making a reasonably inference based on the evidence to affect change so it doesn
I am a bit confused, the girl died, and why exactly are we arguing about how she died? Does it really matter? It is sad and tragic, isnt that enough?
Cameron, about Becky Bell you said, “Ultimately, the suggestion by prolifers all in a tizzy about this is
*claps for Jill*
Midnite,
Yes it certainly is very sad and tragic. My only issue is how her death, and I feel her parents as well, were, and still are, exploited to promote a political agenda. These were people in deep grief and shock, likely trying to make some sense out of their daughter’s very sudden and unexpected death. You may not remember but this case became quite the media circus and abortion advocates pounced on this like a pack of hyenas. I mean “60 Minutes”, the Hollywood crowd, Oprah, and People Magazine, until some inconvenient facts started to slip out. This sad situation is summed up very well by Jill in her 3PM post.
I just think it is plain wrong to use to someone’s death, birth or their children as a political stance or propaganda. But alas that is only my opinion.
I also think that Ms. Magazine should get a grip and start writing about legal abortion deaths. Don’t they claim to be pro woman?
Midnite,
Good point.
Heather4life,
Don’t hold your breath. Ms Magazine, like NARAL and NOW is pro feminist/abortion agenda. Women come second. They have all proved this time and again.
Mary, I already know how they operate. They would only do that if Hell froze over.
SMOG, nice try. BTW, I’m calling the FBI on you.
“Cameron, you said in a previous post(6/27 7:53PM) that “she took a cocktail of drugs to induce an abortion”. So which is it?”
That’s my opinion based on the mighty morphing comments of her friends regarding drug use. I think she probably didn’t think she could make the Kentucky trip happen logistically and did the next option available–try to induce.
Cameron,
She had her friend arrange the Kentucky trip for after she had allegedly “induced”. Why would she have her friend arrange this trip for her if she had already aborted?
Also, MA’s are trained to do toxicology screening on the deceased. I’m quite sure they did one on B. Bell. Had she ingested a “drug cocktail” there would have been mention made of this in the autopsy report.
“Also, MA’s are trained to do toxicology screening on the deceased. I’m quite sure they did one on B. Bell. Had she ingested a “drug cocktail” there would have been mention made of this in the autopsy report.”
She didn’t die right after the misscariage Heather… try to keep up, and stop watching CSI for your science.
WTF is wrong with you Mary?
It’s just blows me away that you all can come up with all this conspiracy scenarios when it suits your purposes but you’re dim witted adult version of a toddler going “why… why…. why… why…” when it somehow counters your notions.
Cameron, The fact remains that had she ingested a drug cocktail, the MA would have found those drugs in her system. What were the drugs? The coroner’s full report is available if you google her name. When a person dies from a drug overdose, the coroner will put it in his report. The cause of death would be Drug Intoxication. B. Bell’s death certificate reads: Cause of death: Pneumonia. The end!
Nothing is wrong with me, I’m just fine Cameron, but I thank you for your concern. I am a little worried about you though. You really should follow the advise I posted for you on another thread about Jack Daniels. It will help calm you.
Heather4life,
Excellent posts.
Cameron,
watch your mouth wiseguy!
Hits self in head.. oops meant ME medical Examiner. Talk about asleep @ the wheel. Okay Now you can insult me Cameron. Have at it.
“The picture above explains what abortion does to the baby and mother. so sad.”
Jasper, your naivety is only outweighed by your ignorance and stupidity. I’m pretty sure I would’ve remembered if that happened to Erin, considering that had I walked into my room and seen that, I would’ve been on the phone faster than a fat kid on cake.
Seriously, grow up. For someone who is past 30, you act like such a kid sometimes.
Dr. Death threat is back. Why don’t you move on with your life loser! You will be arrested soon! Stop worshiping Tiller the baby killer. Don’t you have anything better to do with your time baby killing supporter?
DD,
give it up.
SOMG, i.e., DoctorDefense, 8:18a: I’m tired of merely deleting your serious assassination antagonations. I have your IP address. If anything happens to these people, I’m alerting the FBI.
*claps for Jill!*
Dr. Defense, If my father or mother killed someone, what sense would it make to come after me? You are one mixed up cookie! You are targeting your anger at innocent people. Oh, I forgot. You are also in agreeance with the slaughter of innocent people.
Dr. Defense aka SoMg, you are defending scum!
Feel free, Jill, but as I have told you before, the FBI already knows all about DD.
loser!
Jill, feel free. The FBI already knows about DD. Ya, they’ve probably arrested him before!
A thoroughly disreputable character.
a thoroughly despicable character.
dammit… all the fun stuff is getting deleted before I see it.
Whose fault is it when people die in allergic reactions to penicyllin? It happens more often than women dying from legal abortion.
SomG, post some facts please. I haven’t heard about this.
Who’s fault is it concerning allergic reactions? As a medical professional, if you administer a drug to someone without checking for allergies or ignore what the patient has said concerning allergies, then the medical professinal is the one legally responsible and liable.
If a person knowingly ingests anything they are allergic to, then they are responsible. One of my co-workers is deathly allergic, literally, to peanuts. Needless to say I do NOT have them at my Christmas parties! Almonds instead.
Allergies to anything, foods, drugs, beestings, can develop suddenly and unexpectedly and can certainly be fatal. I don’t know that anyone is really responsible for any death that results from these circumstances.
Heather, see for instance http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/full/140/8/620
.
“The case-fatality rate from abortion today is less than 1 death per 100 000 abortions (32, 33). By comparison, the risk for death from anaphylaxis after parenteral administration of penicillin is about 2 per 100 000 events. ”
Thank you Mary. I am allergic to PCN. I found out when my doctor gave it to me at the age of 11. I didn’t blame him, because he didn’t know. I didn’t know, and my mother didn’t know. Now that I DO know, I obviously list it as an allergy.