At last week’s YearlyKos Convention, Hillary Clinton stated, “I believe marriage should be left to the states.”
Hillary and liberals say they want each state to decide whether marriage should be between one man and one woman, not the federal government.
Yet Hillary and liberals don’t want the legality of abortion decided by the states, which is all the overturn of Roe v. Wade would do.
Why not? What’s the difference?
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Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
I think it’s okay for the issue of abortion to be left to the states. I would think it rather unfortunate that not all states would give women access to safe and legal abortions, but honestly, Roe v. Wade is out of the norm. Things like that usually are decided by the states.
Bravo for clear and honest thinking, Leah.
Many pro-choicers share my opinion. Not all, obviously. Although, some people aren’t aware of what repealing Roe would do–many believe it will outlaw abortion, which, of course, it won’t.
“Hillary and liberals say they want each state to decide whether marriage should be between one man and one woman, not the federal government.”
thats just because they don’t want to alienate moderate voters. Of course Hillary and the libs would love the federal government to legalize homosexual marriage.
I agree it should be a state issue. Georgia, where I live, would probably not legalize it except in extreme cases- and I would probably be much more politically active than I am currently. And in terms of same sex marriage, jasper, it should be legal- churches would still be welcome to refuse them, but in terms of legally binding in terms of spousal privleges, it should be legal. Many couples who have been together for years have been put in terrible situations in terms of financial and emotional issues around the other’s death. At very least, we need civil unions that will give homosexual couples the rights they need to take care of affairs in the case of legal decisions regarding finances and medical procedures.
Both should be decided by the states, it’s odd that she and other politicians think of ith that way. But at the same time a lot of conservatives are also inconsistant, supporting an amendment about gay marriage and the like but wanting to appeal Roe v. Wade. Why all the inconsistancies guys?
Actually, PIP, truth be told, Hillary and libs don’t want marriage decided by the states, since all but one state that has asked that question on the ballot has gone the conservative way. But liberals have to say that for two reasons.
One is that the state votes have already started, and the public clearly supports marriage between one man and one woman.
Two – and because of that -they are afraid there is momentum to pass a constitutional amendment protecting marriage as between one man and one woman. Hillary actually said this in that speech:
I was one of the architects of the strategy against the marriage amendment to the Constitution, and DOMA [Defense of Marriage Act] gave us a bright line to be able to hold back the votes that were building up to do what I considered absolutely abominable and that would be to amend the Constitution to enshrine discrimination. I believe marriage should be left to the states. I support civil unions as I have said many times with full equality of benefits. And so I think that DOMA appropriately put the responsibility in the states where it has historically belonged and I think you are beginning to see states take actions.
But liberals don’t currently fear a constitutional amendment protecting the sanctity of life. That was tried in the ’80s and failed. So liberals want to leave abortion decided by the federal courts.
Liberals will support or oppose whatever they must to get what they want, despite being inconsistent.
And PIP, conservatives are not inconsistent. They by and large support constitutional amendments for both marriage and the sanctity of life.
But, as I said, they failed on the latter in the ’80s. So overturning Roe is the alternative solution… for now.
My gay friends think that gay marriages are pointless. They tell me they’d rather just live together.
The difference? MONEY.
No one has addressed the legal issues involved with a homosexual partnership. A legal marriage and a religious marriage can be two different things. The reason why homosexual marriages NEED to be legal- or at very least civil unions that grant complete spousal privledge- is so homosexual couples can take care of each other when problems arise in terms of finances or the health of the other. Right now in most states, a parter can’t make important life-saving decisions because of legal red tape. THAT is not acceptable.
Personally, I am more for a life amendment than a marriage amendment. Life is a constitutional issue because all other constitutional rights are predicated on the idea that you will be alive to enjoy them. If a person can be legally killed, they have no other rights. Marriage, not so much.
Erin, Isn’t that what living wills are for?
If the homosexual lifestyle wasn
Joe,
well said.
Joe, very well said.
@ Jill “And PIP, conservatives are not inconsistent. They by and large support constitutional amendments for both marriage and the sanctity of life.”
Republicans are pro-life but support the death penalty? That seems pretty inconsistent to me.
@ Heather “My gay friends think that gay marriages are pointless. They tell me they’d rather just live together.”
I know someone who did live with their partner for years. Then one of them got into a terrible accident and was on deaths door. This person partner was not allowed to say goodbye, or see this person because “he was not family”
What I don’t understand is who the hell cares? Let homosexual people have civil unions. Keep the church out of it. People came to this country for RELIGIOUS FREEDOM but now religion is trying to sneak its way into the government. You can disagree, you can choose not to support it and thats fine. But how would you feel if the govenment passed a law saying “Only people of the same race can marry each other because we don’t want mixed marriages?” Now you may say, “JM that is ludicrous!” and I agree. It EXACTLY how i feel when people talk about not allowing civil unions. It doesn’t effect you, expect that it goes against your morals and values.
Now to touch on Jill’s original question. I agree with Leah, let the states decide in both cases.
Not all Republicans are for the death penalty. Many, many pro-lifers are against it. While President. Bush is not a good example of this view, it very much exists.
Why is pro-life and pro-death penalty any more inconsistent than pro-choice and anti-death penalty?
Hi JM.
what you pose was THE pro-gay rhetoric earlier this year in France. They decided against homosexual civil (not church) unions because of children. The legalization of such a bond meant homosexual child adoption would be an essential corollary of this and so was voted down … after results of psychological impact on kids was negative. [please note that this impact was not on children who had occasional meetings with homosexual couples, but kids raised in this lifestyle.] Does this argument mean anything to you?
Mary: Why is pro-life and pro-death penalty any more inconsistent than pro-choice and anti-death penalty?
Neither one need be “inconsistent,” since we are talking about different things. I can certainly see being pro-life and also for the death penalty for certain criminals. Nobody is saying the unborn are “guilty” that I know of. In fact, if so I’d say that’d be pretty crazy.
Also can see being pro-choice and against the death penalty. Being for women retaining the freedom they have in the matter and caring more for that than merely increasing the population (especially against the woman’s will) while not wanting the execution of sentient, aware, experiential people isn’t any necessary contradiction.
Myself, I’m pro-choice but also favor the death penalty in some cases. I realize there have been people put to death in error, as they were innocent of the crime, but there are some cases where there is not enough doubt to warrant any such worries.
Jessica Lunsford, nine year old Florida girl, taken and killed. Guy confessed and I don’t think anybody doubts he did it. If it was up to me, there would not be the multiple appeals process slogging through the courts, costing millions of Dollars in a case like this.
It’s crazy but it’s actually cheaper to keep a guy like this in prison for the rest of his life (and it’s like $50,000 or so per year I think) versus going through the appeals process.
In a case like this, I’d have it be up for argument the one time anyway, and after that he’d be executed.
Doug
I agree that there are some people who probably *deserve* the death penalty. It just really disturbs me that the state is given the legal power to kill a citizen.
“what you pose was THE pro-gay rhetoric earlier this year in France. They decided against homosexual civil (not church) unions because of children. The legalization of such a bond meant homosexual child adoption would be an essential corollary of this and so was voted down … after results of psychological impact on kids was negative. [please note that this impact was not on children who had occasional meetings with homosexual couples, but kids raised in this lifestyle.] Does this argument mean anything to you?”
Can you give me a link or an article about this study? I’d like to read more about it.
Also John some kids who grow up in a “mother” and “father” home could have also have “negative physiological impact” on their growth. Say the father beats the mother or visa versa. Say the parent beats the child… Or say the father or mother sexually abuses the child? Any child weather it be a child who has one parent…. two parents (male and female) or homosexual parents could potentially cause a negative physiological impact.
Joe- in something harsher than I’ve almost ever said on this blog, that is idiotic.
Homosexuals do not live ‘unhealthy’ lifestyles, no more than any one else. And Michelle, a living will works only in case of a vegetative state in many legal areas. Legally, say a homosexual’s partner of several years is dying from a stroke, heart attack, or the like. Hospitals are only allowed to let in immediate family in many cases. The partner is barred access from the person he/she loves in the last moments of their life. Financially, joint bank accounts, mortgages, and financing in generally is very difficult without spousal privledge. The tax area is also a big issue. In another health related issue, if one partner has a severe medical issue and is unable to think or act in his own stead, his own partner is unable to make those decisions for him, because his legal status forbids it. These people are STILL AFFORDED HEALTHCARE, Joe. It’s illegal to refuse to treat a patient due to their sexual orientation, though it seems that you’d like that. They simply may not get the exact treatment that they specify because the person who knows them best is unable to make the decisions.
OK, I changed my mind, I’m not done yet. Joe really irked me. Where the blazes do you get off insulting people who are struggling with diseases? Maybe you don’t agree with ESCR, but have YOU ever had Parkinson’s disease? Have you ever been a quadreplegic? I somehow doubt it. These are people who are trying to prevent future generation from suffering the way that they do. They’re no so fool as to think that all of it can be solved in their lifetime, in fact, when my grandfather met Fox at a luncheon for people with Parkinson’s, he said that Fox seemed more interested in preventing the disease by finding it’s genetic cause than by curing it once it started. Unfortunately, the technology is a long way off. You are way out of line both in saying people trying to find a way to stop suffering are selfish and that saying homosexuals are just like ‘sick people’. In my mind, you have proven yourself to be inescapably bigoted and also, homophobic. Seems that with that drowning allusion you have a rather silly fear of some kind of ‘homosexual agenda’.
Grrr. And I thought the internet had lost it’s ability to make me mad.
“that is idiotic.”
Unfortunately true though, studies have shown that the average life span of a gay man is @40-45 yrs old. Not due to a heart attack or stroke either, we all know that. People acting offended when this fact is brought up doesn’t help these people one bit.
Erin,
How come libs never hear of the important things.
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/jun/05060606.html
Your points are all the things homosexuals say to make it appear that it is not about their dangerous lifestyle. It is called a smoke screen. And the part where you called what I wrote idiotic, who do you think you are, Judy Bar Topinka or something?
As for your next post
Erin, I feel very badly for the people who are unable to be with their loved one during medical emergencies. However, it seems to me that other things could be done to allow visitation besides marraige. Perhaps your “in case of emergency” contact could be given automatic visitation, POA ect.
Yes, yes, it has nothing to do with the massive suicide rate among homosexuals, Rosie. Or the lack of education. And I am not a homosexual, Joe; I wonder why you’re so afraid of gay people. Did they ever do anything to you? What about people with terminal, disabling diseases? No? I think that I’m a person who knows a bigot when I see one. You seem to have no respect for the fact that homosexuals are PEOPLE. They are just as deep, human, and emotionally engaged in their life as you are. Dehumanizing people is the first sign of a phobia- it’s what racists did to black people. I understand relgious reasons against homosexuality, and I respect the opinions of just about everyone on this site because they can express their opinions in a dignified manner without dehumanizing the people involved. You, on the other hand, seem to just hate gays. By definition, that is homophobia. By definition, that is bigotry.
By the way, the largest group of people infected with AIDS? African heterosexual females. Don’t give me this junk about AIDS being a gay disease, a curse from God. That’s just…ugh. Ignorance in it’s worst form.
Oh, and Joe? If you’ve ‘heard it all before’, where is your practiced, educated response?
Taking my kid brother to the movies, be back later.
PS. I addressed something to Michelle that was meant for you, Heather, sorry. I had a weird morning at work :-P
Lauren- how about civil unions? Things that grant all forms of spousal privledge except the name? Or how about legalizing the marriage in the courthouse, and leave it to individual churches to decide whether they want to marry couples or not? It shouldn’t be an issue that the government is involved in- if the church says they’ll marry them, let the church marry them. If they don’t, then that’s fine.
Have you heard that wonderful story about the gay Lutheran clergyman in Atlanta recently? I’ll have to see if I can find the story.
Anyhow, off I go!
The Supreme Court decided that laws restricting a womans right to reproductive freedom were unconstitutional. That has nothing at all to do with marriage.
Rosie, what is the source for your ‘statistics’ on the ‘average’ life of a gay man in the US?
http://www.indegayforum.org/news/show/26857.html
This is what I found when I did a search – how can anyone who knows anything at all about statistics take seriously ‘research’ conducted this way?
Erin, I’m not sure how I feel about civil unions. On ths surface they seem to be a good compromise, but I havn’t fully thought out all the ramifications of them yet.
TX Red, the same could be said if the Supreme court decided that laws restricting two women’s right to marry were unconstitutional. Both issues deal with the right to “privacy” losly extrapolated from the 14th ammendemnet. I think they are quite comperable from a constitiutional standpoint.
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_cameron_obit.html
Lauren: I agree that there are some people who probably *deserve* the death penalty. It just really disturbs me that the state is given the legal power to kill a citizen.
Understood, Lauren, and lots of people feel that way. I don’t see it as less disturbing to lock a person up for the rest of their life. What, really, is the point of that? Not everybody would even want that, versus being killed.
A society, down deep, is a bunch of people with desires in common, and if an individual’s behavior goes far enough outside of what is considered acceptable, then society usually puts the individual out of society, by imprisonment or execution.
Again, this is not for the majority of prisoners, far from it, in fact, but in cases where a felon is released later and then he goes on to kill somebody, to me it’d have been much better had he been executed the first time around.
Doug
Lauren, I think the comparison is absurd. Roe determined that women had a right to bodily autonomy and self determination. There is no comparison between marriage and a pregnancy. No one is saying women cant live together. No one is saying two women (or men) cant have a religious ceremony and be married. The difference is the union isnt formally recognized by the state /nation. They are two completely separate issues. “I think the state should decide” is one of the biggest copouts polititians have. It lets them wiggletail out of the question without ever making any kind of real committment or giving any indication what they THINK of the issue.
“Yet Another Study Confirms Gay Life Expectancy 20 Years Shorter”
@ Joe, Are you kidding me? LOTS of things cause a lower life expectancy, smoking, drinking, not exercising, not eating healthy, living in certain areas etc. Shall we outlaw drinking, oh wait the US already tried that… Shall we make laws regarding what a person can eat and how much they should exercise? While we’re at it why not make the entire country smoke free and make laws preventing places from selling cigarettes. (this is one I would love because I hate the smell of smoke however I am rational and realize this is not possible) Someone who smokes, drinks, doesn’t eat healthy or exercise… these are all LIFESTYLES….
TX Red, Neither the parameters of bodily rights nor the parameters of marraige are expressly spelled out in our constitution. Broad judicial rulings based on insound constitutional law are far outside the expectations of a democratic republic.
While I agree that it is easy for a politician to defer the matter to the states, I do not believe this deferal is necessarally a bad thing. If you believe, as I do, in states rights, then you must recongize that these rights have been trampled in regards to Roe v. Wade. Making a broad “marriage ammendment” would be equally disasterous. Much social discontent could be eased were citizens given a voice in controversial issues.
JM, I don’t think anyone is suggesting we burn homeosexuals at the stake. The question is really, essentially, what does marriage mean in this country. This is something for the people of America to decide.
I don’t believe “lowered life expectancy” should factor into the issue. However, I’m fairly libertarian on most issues, so perhaps that is just my battiness talking.
Tex,
http://theroadtoemmaus.org/RdLb/22SxSo/PnSx/HSx/hosx_lifspn.htm
Type in average life span of homosexual and you get 627,000 hits, pick one.
Erin, you wrote
JM,
You wrote,
Joe, as with smoking I don’t see why they wouldn’t just lie. How could it ever be proven?
I suppose one could lie, but if caught it would cause a lot of trouble for yourself.
I guess I just have a pretty low faith in humanity in terms of self-reporting.
Ugh. This thread kind of sickens me.
Lauren,
I’m sure lots of people lie, your low faith is probably reasonable.
Pip, I think most people have compasion for the individuals in the situation, but don’t agree with the political/moral implications of gay marraige.
Lauren, that is not what I pick up from this thread.
Whether they had sodomy. Not intercourse, not sex…but sodomy.
I’m not talking to you about this anymore. You’re too blantantly bigoted and I would say something very nasty to you. I hope that the Christians on this thread will pray for you. I will hope.
I pray for everyone here.
Erin, how was the movie?
It was great, very funny. We saw Rush Hour 3. Though I will say, Chan is 53 now, and he’s losing his touch a bit. The action scenes weren’t as good as they had been. But it was fun to go out with my brother before he goes back to school tomorrow. My little brother is going to be a senior!
My little sister is too! They grow up so fast.
I was wondering about RH3. I really like the RH movies, but this one got pretty lackluster reviews. We’ll probably still see it though.
Texas Red, can you give me an example of anything that legalized abortion has done for the betterment of our society? Just 1 thing.
@JM,
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2006/feb/06021601.htmlsorry this took so long – computer woes!
Lauren,
You wrote,
I think the “you lie, you lose” policy is good.
Erin,
You wrote
Hilary is smart. She knows what she has to do and she will get it done. She represents everyone and not just a select few. Gay people are people too and deserve equal rights. If they don’t, than what makes you think you christians deserve yours?
Jason, I don’t see how that really applies to the topic of states rights.
I don’t care about politics, I don’t care about religion, I don’t care about the morality. I care about the fact that people lack the ability to realize that every homosexual is a person who has just as many valid feelings and whose being runs just as deep as anyone elses. THE EXACT SAME ISSUES of the civil rights movement are now occuring with homosexuals. Maybe not segregated bus seats or separate drinking fountains, but I’ve seen some people pretty hell bent on stopping gay pride or open displays of affection by same sex couples. It’s a dirty road. We’re either going to take it, or avoid it. People like Joe will take it. People like me, and most of the other people on the blog, will at least stand up at a certain point and refuse to allow outright predjudice.
Maybe I just have an overgrown opinion on the good of the human race. Because when I hear people like Joe talk, a little part of me dies. People who don’t recognize the fact of every individuals humanity depress me greatly.
To me it seems gay pride parades and the like have been counter-productive. They reinforce negative homosexual sterotypes. I understand their original purpose, but I think they are starting to cross the line.
Lauren, she’s a lawyer and she knows the steps necessary to repeal DOMA. Is what I meant. It’s one of her plans when she assumes the POTUS. She also meant that some states are moving to pass civil unions quicker than the Fed gov can or will. Sorry I was not clearer. I hate to tell you this folks but the smoke screen surrounding the marriage issue is starting to break up with people realizing it does not force the Church’s to accept anything and is nothing more than bigotry. Abortion on demand won’t be going anywhere as it shouldn’t. If you pro life that’s great but it does not give you the right to choose for someone else. I think if the pro life movement actually had some common sense and actually spoke about birth control and if you guys actually did something to improve Children’s Welfare services in this country.How come you all don’t adopt unwanted kids? Why are there thousands upon thousands of kids in the system? Until you can address these issues you really don’t have anything to offer women.
“I don’t believe “lowered life expectancy” should factor into the issue. However, I’m fairly libertarian on most issues, so perhaps that is just my battiness talking.”
Thats exactly my point…. Joe posted an article about homosexuals having a lower life expectancy. He used it as a good reason to outlaw same sex marriage.
@ Joe… I don’t really get the point of your post to me… Sorry.
Well said Erin, well said!
No, see, I can even understand pro-lifers wanting to outlaw abortion. If they honestly feel that abortion is murder, then that’s a valid reason for wanting to outlaw it. I don’t believe it. But at the least, their belief is something that is worth fighting for. I understand opposition to abortion WAY easier than opposition to same-sex marriage, and especially civil unions. Abortion can be percieved as taking the life of another person. I might not believe it, but I understand how the perception exists. Same-sex marriage IS NOT harmful to anyone. NO SINGLE PERSON is going to be physically harmed by allowing homosexual couples spousal privledge. The morality behind it is so circular- the bible says that adultery is wrong, homosexuality is adultery, except homosexuals can’t get married, so there’s no way for them to NOT commit adultery. I understand the morality behind the pro-life cause. I don’t understand the morality against gay rights/SSM/civil unions.
I wish Jill would post one of mine that the system ate up but said “no need to post again Jill will take care of it” Some of the things I said were outdated, but I mainly want to post a few political cartoons that apply to our discussion.
http://www.idrewthis.org/d/20040308.html
http://www.idrewthis.org/d/20050629.html
http://www.idrewthis.org/d/20050404.html
There we go.
Erin wrote, “
Jason, pro-lifers DO adopt children. I don’t know if you’re aware of it, but many follow the mandate to care for orphans. In addition, many pro-lifers advocate on behalf of women and children. Look at Feminists for Life. They’re a great organization. I think you’re looking at Republican politicians and judging the movement. That would be like me looking at John Kerry and asking “Why do all Liberals live in mansions and pretend they’re working class?” While this might be true of Liberal politicians, it is true of very little of liberal minded Americans.
IS THERE ANY PRO CHOICER OUT THERE WHO CAN TELL ME WHAT GOOD THINGS HAVE COME FROM LEGALIZING ABORTION?
Hillary is smart? Then why did she stay with a womanizer? LOL!
@ Joe, I currently know of 2 gay males who are HIV +. My friend is a male nurse working in a LTC unit that specifically cares for patients who have HIV/ AIDS. His unit is filled! There are plenty of women there too. You would think that some people wouldn’t believe this, with the way people are still having unprotected sex. I have heard that more and more teenage girls are being infected.
“People who don’t recognize the fact of every individuals humanity depress me greatly.”
Then what about your baby?
This interesting part of this is that the issue of “gay marriage”, due to the Full Faith and Credit clause, needs to be decided nationally. The reason is that gays would become “married” in one state, move to another, and expect their marriage to be recognized.
Abortion on the other hand is an activity which does not affect the states which choose to outlaw it. It is a more appropriate issue to be left up to the states.
No inconsistency, pink. I want federal legislation passed that grants Constitutional citizenship from the moment of conception. If the federal legislation doesn’t pass muster with an activist court, I want a Constitutional amendment which does the same thing.
How “gay marriage” would me personally is not germane to the discussion. How “gay marriage” would affect society is important.
Saying “it doesn’t affect you” so you should not be involved is a non issue. A murder the next town over doesn’t affect me, it only goes against my morals and values.
Tony, good point about the marriages having questionable validity in different states.
Feeeelings…
Nothing more than feelings…
Don’t give me some facts just…
talk about feelings…
Feeeeelings….
Woah, woah, woah…
Feeeeelings….
Woah, woah, woah,
Feelings…
Tony, isn’t advocating so many national laws against the Republican and conservative philosophy?
Hillary is smart? Then why did she stay with a womanizer? LOL!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
LOL!
Perhaps she should have studied Medicine instead of Law. Med students are a lot smarter when it comes to ditching losers. LOL!
Laura, how is your generic degree? It was purchased with blood $$.
Laura, why do you think that Hillary stayed with a womanizer? That’s not setting forth a very good example for women.
NOW won’t help to assure the safety of women in abortion clinics, but they will pay for some quack to get an education!
Hillary is smart? Then why did she stay with a womanizer? LOL!
Because Billy Graham told her to. It’s in TIME magazine.
Laura, name one good thing that legalized abortion has done for this country.
Hillary can make her OWN decisions. She’s smart, right?
I’m just saying, Billy Graham, a Christian pastor, helped her through with her marital issues, encouraging her to stay with her husband. What happened to the “stand by your man” principle? I thought conservatives believed in the “sanctity” of marriage? Anyway, you have a friend who is verbally abused by her husband, do you strongly encourage her to dump him?
JK, I can’t make her leave! Hillary is in the public eye, and she has allowed Bill to make a fool of her!!
HILLARY IS NOT THAT SMART!!!
She has allowed Bill to make a fool of her in only some peoples’ eyes.
JK, Why don’t YOU tell me one good thing that has resulted from legalized abortion?
If women dumped their husbands every time they did something stupid there would be no married people left in the world.
In some? LOL! and can’t stop laughing!
Ok,
Abortion clinics are subject to inspection for cleanliness and safe (I know that is a relative term for you when it comes to abortion) environments. If abortion were illegal, then abortion clinics would not have to waste time sterilizing their environments.
Laura, why do you think that Hillary stayed with a womanizer? That’s not setting forth a very good example for women.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
She honors her wedding vows. She loves that man. Forgiveness is a Christion principle. You wouldn’t understand…
Laura, wher are you. Why are you avoiding my question?
You do know that not everyone views her like you do? I mean, she is at the top of the Democratic polls, so some in this country thinks she’s all right.
Laura, Leave it to you to take up for her. If it were anybody else, you would be having a field day with it. BTW, please answer my question on abortion.
JK or Laura, can’t either one of you answer my question about abortion??
I just did
Laura, name one good thing that legalized abortion has done for this country.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It saved a lot of women from remaining ignorant and unemployed. Just because YOU enjoy it doesn’t mean everyone does.
Only 1.3 percent of teen mothers earn a degree by age 30. A High School dropout is EIGHT TIMES more likely to kill her child than a college graduate.
Laura, The very least you could do is to use that NOW purchased, generic, blood soaked diploma, and tell me what is so GRAND about abortion. Is it the molesting abortionists? Is it the filth ridden clinics? What is it, Einstein??
Laura, abortion has turned men and women into reproductive SLOBS!
I’m just saying, Billy Graham, a Christian pastor, helped her through with her marital issues, encouraging her to stay with her husband. What happened to the “stand by your man” principle? I thought conservatives believed in the “sanctity” of marriage? Anyway, you have a friend who is verbally abused by her husband, do you strongly encourage her to dump him?
JK, even the Bible gives a woman or a man authority to sign divorce papers in the case of adultery.
HILLARY IS NOT THAT SMART!!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Oh Heather, please grace us with all of YOUR achievements and credentials.
I’m sure we’d all be dazzled!
….A High School dropout is EIGHT TIMES more likely to kill her child than a college graduate.
Proof?
It has saved a lot of women from being unemployed??? ARE YOU SERIOUS?? LOL! Every single woman I know who aborted had a friggin job! Next!!
Oh Heather, please grace us with all of YOUR achievements and credentials.
I’m sure we’d all be dazzled!
Let’s hear all about your freebie education first….I’m sure we’d be dazzled to see what others paid for you to learn!
Laura, if you are educated, I’ll eat my hat! What DO you DO?
Bethany,
But that doesn’t mean they are required to divorce their spouse in times of infidelity. What if they loved them and wanted to work it out? There are so many divorces today because people see divorce as the only solution to a marital problem.
OH, *his self in head* I forgot that we are dealing with women who don’t CARE if men use them for their bodies. That’s what abortion is for ladies!!
JK, when it comes to adultery, I think that a spouse has every right to divorce, and most likely should do so, to protect themselves from further injury. I do think that once a cheater, always a cheater. Sure, there are exceptions, but I believe it’s a rule. I wouldn’t trust a person like Bill Clinton to love me and cherish me for the rest of my life, if I were her.
What about Bill’s part in the wedding vows?
Laura, I think you should go back to class. Please start with Abortion 101.
Is Bill incapable of learning from his past mistakes? He may always have the penchant to cheat, but she can always keep him on a short leash. I personally don’t have a problem with people who want to try to keep their marriage together after even such a transgression as infidelity. As long as it is not an abusive relationship (and as far as I know, I have never heard anything about Bill Clinton being abusive) then I will applaud a couple for trying to work together through their problems. If instead the jilted partner chooses divorce I will certainly be supportive of that as well.
JK, I read your answer, but I really didn’t get it. Are you saying that abortion clinics are okay places because of the legalization?
Heather,
I’m saying that because of legalization they are subject to inspections the same as any other clinic or hospital, this makes them safer than the so called “back alley abortions” which would be the only kind if abortion were outlawed.
Laura, paging Laura….. please list one social problem that abortion has eliminated.
Is Bill incapable of learning from his past mistakes?
I think a better question would be, “Does Bill desire to learn from his past mistakes? Does he even consider those mistakes to be wrong?”
He may always have the penchant to cheat, but she can always keep him on a short leash.
What kind of a life is that? You think a woman should have to live with someone that she has to control in order to make him stick around? I would want to be loved by someone who loved me of his own free will, not someone who felt forced into monogamy.
I personally don’t have a problem with people who want to try to keep their marriage together after even such a transgression as infidelity.
I don’t have a problem with it either, but I do know those couples, and they all have serious communication problems and are not in any way happy.
As long as it is not an abusive relationship (and as far as I know, I have never heard anything about Bill Clinton being abusive) then I will applaud a couple for trying to work together through their problems.
I think having to wonder if your husband even really loves you and you alone, borders on abuse.
JK, It clearly has not done that! We have come no further today than the back ally days. Abortionist Brian Finkle molested and raped his abortion patients for YEARS! ONLY an abortionist would get away with this! The clinic that almost cost Rashida Dinkins her LIFE, was filled with dirty and rusty equipment. Who is conducting these inspections? The ghost of Ted Bundy?
Bethany,
No one really knows Bill and Hillary’s personal life except Bill and Hillary. What if deep down he is a better person and a more committed husband now? Only he can answer that. And the reasons that she chose to stay with him? Only Hillary knows those reasons. A lot of people tend to make snap judgments on their marriage simply because of how they feel about their politics (I’m not saying you are one of them, don’t get me wrong). I think there is a very good reason why they are still together, a reason that is not really any of our business.
Teen pregnancy is bad for the mother…
Future prospects for teenagers decline significantly if they have a baby. Teen mothers are less likely to complete school and more likely to be single parents. Less than one-third of teens who begin their families before age 18 ever earn a high school diploma. Only 1.5% earn a college degree by the age of 30.4
There are serious health risks for adolescents who have babies. Common medical problems among adolescent mothers include poor weight gain, pregnancy-induced hypertension, anemia, sexually transmitted diseases (STDs), and cephalopelvic disproportion. Later in life, adolescent mothers tend to be at greater risk for obesity and hypertension than women who were not teenagers when they had their first child.5
Teen pregnancy is closely linked to poverty and single parenthood. A 1990 study showed that almost one-half of all teenage mothers and over three-quarters of unmarried teen mothers began receiving welfare within five years of the birth of their first child.6 The growth in single-parent families remains the single most important reason for increased poverty among children over the last twenty years, as documented in the 1998 Economic Report of the President. Out-of-wedlock childbearing (as opposed to divorce) is currently the driving force behind the growth in the number of single parents, and half of first out-of-wedlock births are to teens.7 Therefore, reducing teen pregnancy and child-bearing is an obvious place to anchor serious efforts to reduce poverty in future generations.
Teen pregnancy is bad for the child…
Children born to teen mothers suffer from higher rates of low birth weight and related health problems. The proportion of babies with low birth weights born to teens is 21 percent higher than the proportion for mothers age 20-24.8 Low birth weight raises the probabilities of infant death, blindness, deafness, chronic respiratory problems, mental retardation, mental illness, and cerebral palsy. In addition, low birth weight doubles the chances that a child will later be diagnosed as having dyslexia, hyperactivity, or another disability.4
Children of teens often have insufficient health care. Despite having more health problems than the children of older mothers, the children of teen mothers receive less medical care and treatment. In his or her first 14 years, the average child of a teen mother visits a physician and other medical providers an average of 3.8 times per year, compared with 4.3 times for a child of older childbearers.4 And when they do visit medical providers, more of the expenses they incur are paid by others in society. One recent study suggested that the medical expenses paid by society would be reduced dramatically if teenage mothers were to wait until they were older to have their first child.4
Children of teen mothers often receive inadequate parenting. Children born to teen mothers are at higher risk of poor parenting because their mothers – and often their fathers as well – are typically too young to master the demanding job of being a parent. Still growing and developing themselves, teen mothers are often unable to provide the kind of environment that infants and very young children require for optimal development. Recent research, for example, has clarified the critical importance of sensitive parenting and early cognitive stimulation for adequate brain development.4 Given the importance of careful nuturing and stimulation in the first three years of life, the burden born by babies with parents who are too young to be in this role is especially great.
Children with adolescent parents often fall victim to abuse and neglect. A recent analysis found that there are 110 reported incidents of abuse and neglect per 1,000 families headed by a young teen mother. By contrast, in families where the mothers delay childbearing until their early twenties, the rate is less than half this level – or 51 incidents per 1,000 families.4 Similarly, rates of foster care placement are significantly higher for children whose mothers are under 18. In fact, over half of foster care placements of children with these young mothers could be averted by delaying child-bearing, thereby saving taxpayers nearly $1 billion annually in foster care costs alone.4
Children of teenagers often suffer from poor school performance. Children of teens are 50 percent more likely to repeat a grade; they perform much worse on standardized tests; and ultimately they are less likely to complete high school than if their mothers had delayed childbearing.6
And bad for us all…
The U.S. still leads the fully industrialized world in teen pregnancy and birth rates – by a wide margin. In fact, the U.S. rates are nearly double Great Britain’s, at least four times those of France and Germany, and more than ten times that of Japan.3
Teen pregnancy costs society billions of dollars a year. There are nearly half a million children born to teen mothers each year. Most of these mothers are unmarried, and many will end up poor and on welfare. Each year the federal government alone spends about $9 billion to help families that began with a teenage birth.10
Teen pregnancy hurts the business community’s “bottom line.” Too many children start school unprepared to learn, and teachers are overwhelmed trying to deal with problems that start in the home. Forty-five percent of first births in the United States are to women who are either unmarried, teenagers, or lacking a high school degree, which means that too many children – tomorrow’s workers – are born into families that are not prepared to help them succeed.6 In addition, teen mothers often do not finish high school themselves. It’s not easy for a teen to learn work skills and be a dependable employee while caring for children.
A new crop of kids becomes teenagers each year. This means that prevention efforts must be constantly renewed and reinvented. And between 1995 and 2010, the number of girls aged 15-19 is projected to increase by 2.2 million.6
I have heard that Hillary used to fool around with women. I’m not sure if that’s true or not. I guess that Bill had remarked “My wife has been with more women than I have.”
Heather,
I’ve heard of a dentist who also raped his patients (I believe there might have been a Lifetime movie about it). There are plenty of cockroach infested restaurants (who upon authorities finding out have been forced to shut down for awhile in order to clean up) Nothing’s perfect.
Laura, where did you get that link? Was it from Planned Parenthood?
Laura, legalizing abortion has actually been so easily available, I believe it to be a contributing factor in teen promiscuity. They all know that they have the good old abortion clinic to fall back on. When I meet a woman who has had 7, 8, 10 abortions, what am I to think? Ya, that’s okay. It’s your choice. Nah, she’s a SLOB!!
No one really knows Bill and Hillary’s personal life except Bill and Hillary. What if deep down he is a better person and a more committed husband now? Only he can answer that. And the reasons that she chose to stay with him? Only Hillary knows those reasons. A lot of people tend to make snap judgments on their marriage simply because of how they feel about their politics (I’m not saying you are one of them, don’t get me wrong). I think there is a very good reason why they are still together, a reason that is not really any of our business.
My point wasn’t that we need to be into their business. You said, “What happened to the “stand by your man” idea.”, and I was responding to that. I was trying to help you understand that we conservatives don’t always think it’s right to “stand by your man”, if your man happens to be adulterous.
Heather, you took the question out of my mouth. She conveniently left out the source.
Yet shockingly, the rates of teen pregnancy have RISEN since abortion was legalized.
Look at England. They have one of the highest rates of abortion AND live birth to teens. Obviously abortion has not cured that “sociatal ill”.
I’ve heard of a dentist who also raped his patients (I believe there might have been a Lifetime movie about it). There are plenty of cockroach infested restaurants (who upon authorities finding out have been forced to shut down for awhile in order to clean up) Nothing’s perfect.
The ratio of bad abortionists to clinics is much higher than the ratio of bad dentists to dentists offices.
Well, it BECAME our business when he was the president.
Bill Clinton lied to the entire nation. He lost his credibility.
Bethany,
Fair enough.
But in my past experiences I have known churches to discriminate against people who’ve gotten divorced for whatever reason, even going so far as to say a certain couple was no longer welcome in the church if the woman didn’t “stand by her man”.
http://www.teenpregnancy.org/whycare/sowhat.asp
Jk, you know as well as I do, just because you know of churches which do this doesn’t mean that all churches do this, does it?
George W Bush lied to the entire nation about the reasons for going to war, Bill Clinton lied about oral sex. Which do you think caused more deaths?
Again Laura, looking at PP’s own statistics, teen pregnancy rates have been holding steady for the bast 40 years. Yes, the’ve dipped slightly since the 90’s but that can hardly be attributed to a procedure legalized 2 decades prior.
George W Bush lied to the entire nation about the reasons for going to war, Bill Clinton lied about oral sex. Which do you think caused more deaths?
Bill Clinton.
I’m sure there are molesting dentists. However, here are a few abortionists who have molested patients. Dr. Finkel, Dr. Namihas, Dr. Reich, Dr. Ghali. These are 4 right off the rip. It shouldn’t be this easy for me.
Bethany,
Yes I know.
And how many deaths did Bill Clinton’s sex life cause?
Millions of abortions, which are deaths.
Bill Clinton made Monica Lewinsky have millions of abortions?
Bill Clinton allowed any and all abortions to stay legal. How many children were killed? Did you now that Bill’s mistress of 11 years had an abortion? Gee, I wonder if he influenced her decision in any way.
I have heard that Hillary used to fool around with women. I’m not sure if that’s true or not. I guess that Bill had remarked “My wife has been with more women than I have.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I heard that Bush knocked up the twins and performed third-trimester abortions on them on his desk in the oval office. Then Batboy swooped in and ate the fetuses with Elvis. Britney Spears and Bigfoot cleaned up the whole mess.
JKeller, were it not for Clinton’s views on sex, he could have been working to prevent abortions. He allowed them to continue the entire time he was in office, doing absolutely nothing but encourage the situation. He is responsible for the deaths of millions. And what does Clinton’s sex life have to do with Bush’s supposed “lies”?
Who knows, he changed the way an enitre generation thought about sex and marital integrity. It’s impossible to calculate how many children are killed because of this world view every day. (well we could estimate, but it would be mind numbing.)
George Bush’s lies (that ALL but a handful of congrass spouted and believed as well) have cost less than 4000 american lives. That is about the same as how many unborn children are killed every day.
Monica Lewinski had an abortion. She was boppin someone before Bill. She claims she regrets it.
I heard that Bush knocked up the twins and performed third-trimester abortions on them on his desk in the oval office. Then Batboy swooped in and ate the fetuses with Elvis. Britney Spears and Bigfoot cleaned up the whole mess
Hmm,you already used that one here, Laura. Get some new material.
Yet women today still have abortions, under the rule of George W Bush. So I guess all these deaths are on his head, which brings his death toll still higher.
Laura, How lame.
But unlike Bill, Bush has done something to stop abortion.
Yet women today still have abortions, under the rule of George W Bush. So I guess all these deaths are on his head, which brings his death toll still higher.
George Bush, from what I know, is at least making an effort to stop whatever deaths he can. That’s why he signed the Partial birth abortion ban..that’s why he signed the Born alive infants protection act…that’s why he denies funding for embryonic research, etc etc.
He is part of the solution. If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem.
JK, Gennifer Flowers was Bill’s mistress for 11 years. She’s the woman I was talking about.
It was not Bill Clinton who legalized abortion, he was not president during Roe v Wade, so why are all the deaths of unborn babies put squarely on his head? He didn’t force any of the women since abortion was legalized to have an abortion.
I can meet you in the middle with that one. I second what Bethany said. At least he is TRYING to undo this atrocity! It’s going to take a long time for anyone to undo the damage.
Bill Clinton may have lied about receiving a blow job but no one has died from that blow job. Can you say the same for George W. Bush? His lies put us in a never ending war where INNOCENT Iraqis and US soldiers are being killed on a daily basis and he’s supposed to be a christian. I guess it’s ok though since he says God talks to him.
He has done all these things to stop deaths? What about signing a bill that would give our troops a chance to see the births of their children, by giving them hope that they will be able to finally get out of Iraq? He has refused to do this, opting instead for a neverending quagmire.
It was not Bill Clinton who legalized abortion, he was not president during Roe v Wade, so why are all the deaths of unborn babies put squarely on his head? He didn’t force any of the women since abortion was legalized to have an abortion.
LOL JK, come on. If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem. Especially when it’s within your power to make moves which could save lives and you choose otherwise (example: Clinton’s veto of the PBA ban, etc)
No one said Clinton is the SOLE person responsible that abortion is legal, just that he is very much responsible for choosing to allow these deaths to continue, without making any effort whatsoever to stop them.
Bill Clinton may have lied about receiving a blow job but no one has died from that blow job. Can you say the same for George W. Bush? His lies put us in a never ending war where INNOCENT Iraqis and US soldiers are being killed on a daily basis and he’s supposed to be a christian. I guess it’s ok though since he says God talks to him.
Jason, take a look at this site:
http://www.argonunya.com/HypocrisyExposed.html
I know someone in the service. She was in Iraq. She was proud to serve her country. I am proud of her!
Again, Bill’s BJ most certainly had an affect on the sexual perseptions of the youth that grew up under his presidency. Ask ANY 20 year old if oral sex is sex. I bet you wouldn’t get 2 to answer that it is. This confusion has surely led to harm to both these young adults and any children they have conceived.
Jason, nobody ever died from a BJ, but 1.3 million children were aborted each year that Clinton was in office.
I know several people in the armed services. All of them can’t wait to be able to go back home.
Jason, so it’s okay with you that a man cheated on his wife?
I know several people in the armed services. All of them can’t wait to be able to go back home.
Of course they can’t….who doesn’t want to go home after working away from home? They volunteered to go, why, in your opinion?
JK, Missy couldn’t wait to come home either, but she was ther to do her job.
Many of the them signed up out of high school, to have a steady job or get money to eventually go to college. I know at least one of them that truly regrets it, as he has said so in a public forum. I can post what he wrote about his experiences if I can find it and if anyone wants to hear it.
JK, I know TONS of people who don’t like their career of choice. That’s life.
I’m interested Jkeller
me too.
Wow, y’all are being really mean to each other today. I was going to commit, but I have decided to keep my opinion to myself on this issue (that was same sex marriage and abortion) not Bill/Hillary Clinton’s love and sex life.
Ahhh, I was looking for it but because of facebook continually updating itself, its been deleted.
To partially synopsize, he regrets joining the army because he has come to see what he is doing as pointless (in his opinion), basically just trying not to get blown up on his neverending days of driving a truck around Baghdad. He does go on to say that he knows he chose to sign up for the army and he has to grin and bear it until his obligation is up.
And true, Heather, lots of people hate their jobs, but not everyone’s job is as dangerous as that of a soldier.
oops, comment not commit. Cant type today very well. OOPS!!
Midnite,
I’m not trying to be mean, but talking about the war in Iraq gets me kind of fired up, me being a pacifist and all.
JK, Was actually not referring to you. I am talking about some “Joe” guy bashing guys, and people just mean to each other in general.
I thought this was a “Pro Life” website, not a lets bash everyone who thinks/looks/feels differently than we do. Alas, I could be wrong.
Midnite, cops have very dangerous jobs.
Midnite,
O……OK……;-)
Heather,
Yes, cops have dangerous jobs, we finally agree ;-)
Gay marriage has nothing to do with you people and you know it. It’s does not affect you nor will it cause any undue hardship to the american family. You all are doing that all on your own. No one is trying to force the church to perform or acknowledge gay marriage. We are just asking for the same federal and state benefits that you enjoy. The fact that we can’t is an in equality and the Constitution says we are all created equal and endowed with in alienable rights, to deny gay couples that right is discrimination. Plain and simple. Aware and educated americans are aware of this. You all will loose the fight on this one. Love is a force even you folks can’t control.
midnite and JK, it isn’t you 2. I like the 2 of you just fine. However, Laura is always in attack mode. I’m sorry to the 2 of you.
Jason, who are “you people?”
awwww….Heather, I like you too
:-)
sory, that response was to JK.
Heather: Yes, I know that cops have very dangerous jobs. Growing up with two cops are parents, I understand that more than your normal person. I fear everyday that another police officer will come knock on my door telling my that one of my parents have been killed in the line of duty. That is my biggest fear of all.
Joe,
It was more like widespread bi-sexuality. Men had relationships with other men but they also had a wife on the side to carry on their family name.
Also, in Renaissance times, it was common for young men to spend their adolescence strictly in same sex relationships, since young girls were kept out of public life until they were married. Men didn’t usually marry until about thirty when their families arranged a young girl for them, until then the only eligible dating partners were other men.
midnite, I just remembered that your parents were both police officers. My good friend is a cop. He has told me some wild stories. I don’t blame you for feeling fearful for them.
Joe you obviously don’t know what your talking about. I’ve never seen NAMBLA at any of the Pride events here in California. Furthermore Greece is ashamed of it homosexual past because the Greek Orthodox Church tells them to be.Joe your obviously dealing with your own internal homophobia. Gay bash anyone recently? You know what they say about gay bashers…
Cops can quit their jobs if they want to, Heather.
Doctors, nurses, and paramedics could also be considered to have “dangerous occupations” They might get a combative patient. Perhaps they could be stuck with an infected needle. A patient could throw contaminated waste products @ them. My point? What if they all quit their jobs?
Airline pilots have dangerous jobs.
PIP: You dont quit your job if you need to pay the bills. Enough said.
Midnite at the Oasis,
Are you ready to talk about abortion now?? Is it OK if we ask you questions ?
Heather if they enjoy their jobs and feel they are worth doing, they won’t quit their jobs (or if they do they will switch to another provider).
My point is that if during service (that many signed up for for things like college money) someone realizes that it is not worth it to them, they don’t have the choice to find another profession. They face punishment (I don’t remember, do they get military prison time or what?)
MIdnite, that is true. If you hate your job and have a choice to get a new one, in this country you can. People quit their jobs to find a different one or go to school to find a different one all the time.
A lot of people don’t necessarily like their job, but they have the choice to stay. Soldiers generally don’t.
Ok, time to lighten things up!
I just found a place that is making a customer payout search system. I’m thinking it’s sort of like adsense. Anyways, they’re just starting out, and it looks like after the initial “team building” there wont be any sort of advertising or anything like that. I thought you guys would like to know about it because I know there are alot of college students and stay at homes moms on here.
Anyways, I’ll leave the link under my name for a while since I got locked out of my blog.
http://www.agloco.com/r/BBGP8062
Jason, Jason, I have gay friends. I don’t see the point in them marrying though. I don’t gay bash. jasper, *snaps fingers* Dang! Where were ya when Laura was here?….kidding.
Why thank you Lauren.
No problem, Heather. It looks like it might turn out to be pretty neat. Basically you get credit hours for whoever you refer, and google pays out a certain percent to each search.
Of course, it will probably end up being like 10 dollars a month, but I figure it’s worth giving a try, especially since you don’t actually have to have adds or even a website.
PIP: Neither or my parents have a college degree. They cant afford to go back to school and wont find another job making the amount of money they make now if they quit. Trust me, I’ve begged them to change “careers” for my peace of mind, and they wont. Bills have to be paid.
Jasper: I am in no mood to mess with you and the twisting words game today. Leave me alone please.
Boy, people sure like to take people out of context.
Ok, time to lighten things up!
Okay Lauren, how’s this?
love it!
I have plenty of straight friends I just don’t think they should have more rights than I do.
Oooooooo….how do you do the awesome emoticons?
Jk hehe I’ll explain how to you by email, if you’d like… but I may be offline for a little bit. I have to run and help the kids with the rest of the schoolwork. :D
I think I just broke my big toe ;-(
Bethany,
O..OK..later then, have fun with the kids!
Midnite,
That sucks…how did you do it?
I was outside smoking and the work phone rang, so I got up to run inside and grab it. And as I turned around, I jammed my toe into a concrete block… It hurts…
midnite… OUCH!!! what did ya do?
That hurts…:-(
I broke two toes falling down the stairs once.
midnite, oh I have done that before. Yesterday I went to a birthday party. It was held at a bar, but I was drinking Diet Pepsi. I went to the restroom, and there was a step. I missed the step, and I twisted my ankle. Would you believe I did it TWICE?!? I should have just had a beer. LOL! I’m okay though.
Haha, looks good bethany!
hahahaha….
The dangers of one too many diet Pepsis….
Jkeller,
I know, right?
hahaha, yeah you should have had the beer and then you could have blamed the twisted ankle on the booze!! hahahaha.
The only other thing I have ever broken was my baby toe, and that was right before a pointe performance. And that was truly painful, I collapsed off the side stage after it was over and wouldn’t move for forty five minutes.
Um Joe, In Somalia young boys are paired with “Warrior”s (aka adult males)and have sex with them until the are old enough to marry another female (females are in short supply there). And in New Guinea they believe that men cant produce their own semen. So they perform fellatio on adult males so their body will start making their own by the time they are ready to marry and have children. Both cultures have young males act out “homosexual” relationships. and guess what? In both cultures, the boys grow up to become men who marry a female and have children.
Joe,
From a learned professor I had while in Florence. But these guys didn’t just stay in Florence, they traveled all around Italy.
It’s like hitting your funny bone or achilles tendon. You get the tears in your eyes. Then you start cussing, either out loud, or to yourself.
Haha, I had a friend that came to a meeting with a black toe. She said she went out the night before and just woke up with this broken toe, she didn’t remember how she got it at all!
Heather,
Yeah, a toe is little, but it can cause a lot of pain.
On a side note, you never think your butt is all that essential to you until you pull a muscle in it and can’t walk. ;-)
“Both cultures have young males act out “homosexual” relationships. and guess what? In both cultures, the boys grow up to become men who marry a female and have children”
I’ve never heard of this midnite, do mean they practice sodomy?? before they have wives. This can’t be true.
Yes it is Jasper. Both accounts are true. Young males in these cultures either practice sodomy or fellatio before the marry a woman.
I’ve heard of it, in the New Guinea tribe they believe that a boy can’t become a man until one of his elders has made him one, by having sex with him.
“Many of the Niuginian cultures homosexual sex is quite common and tolerated. On New Guinea, sex between men and boys is part of some cultures. Sodomy formed part of the initiation rites when boys became men, and the belief that young boys needed to be inseminated with the semen of older men to grow and become fertile induced young boys to actively seek out older men, relatives or not, and form a very close bond with this person during adolescence. Young boys are even sometimes rejected by their mothers, so that they will spend more time with grown men, and to find an “inseminator”. The insemination procedure practised varies between the tribes, from the rubbing of semen over a boys body, to oral or anal intercourse resulting in ejaculation. This homosexual practice was not considered as an obligation, but was rather grounded on personal affection, and the relationship would be very close until the boy was old enough to marry.”
From my Psychopathology and Culture Book. (Yes a published author that is not biased).
I can’t spell today. I’ve gotta slow down on my typing………… typing 1 word every 10 minutes.
Haha midnite I’m not trying to antagonize anyone’s line of work. I’ve gotten quite close to the emergency medical service professionals over the summer who work closely with the police. That service is desperately needed and underappreciated.
All I am trying to say is that had your parents desired another line of work and that option was available for them, they could if they really wanted to. Economic and familial situations obviously limit people, but there is no proverbial gun at someone’s head telling them that they MUST do this job or face harsh punishment…this is what soldiers are facing. Unless I’m forgetting something, this is the only job like that.
Umm…heterosexual marriage has nothing to do with ‘preserving the human race’. That’s all sex.
“but there is no proverbial gun at someone’s head telling them that they MUST do this job or face harsh punishment…this is what soldiers are facing.”
well, of course, you can’t quit in the middle of war. When I enlisted in the military, thats what you had to sign up for.
Leah said
“I think it’s okay for the issue of abortion to be left to the states. I would think it rather unfortunate that not all states would give women access to safe and legal abortions, but honestly, Roe v. Wade is out of the norm. Things like that usually are decided by the states.”
Jill Stanek responded
“Bravo for clear and honest thinking, Leah.”
God hates it when anyone says that ANY level of government has the option or the leeway to legalize murder or any other crime.
ITS VILE!!!! ITS EVIL!!!! AND YOUR RESPONSE TO THIS EVIL IS BRAVO!!!!
Proverbs 28:5 Evil men do not understand justice, But those who seek the LORD understand all.
Zeke, what I don’t think you understand is that while Jill is actually helping people gradually come to finally understand our point of view, you are seeming to try to push them away. Your method of bringing others to your side isn’t working. Or perhaps you aren’t interested in bringing them to your side. I have seen at least 3 people here who have converted to pro-life after they were adamantly pro-choice. I know it can happen. This place is the first I’ve seen it happen, and the difference between this place and the other places I have seen are that many of the other places are lacking in one thing: love and compassion. There is much accusation, but not much love to go around. I believe that we should bring people on the pro-choice side to understand our point of view, at their pace, with love and compassion, not with the method you are using. Because once we have won them, we many times gain an activist for the pro-life cause, and not only that, but a great friend. I just don’t see your method as actually being able to convert anyone, or as being a way to gain friends, even with people on your own side.
Jk, I just realized I do not have your email address. Unfortunately, I can’t post the code here on the blog to show you, because it will disappear. If you can post a comment on my blog really quick, I can get your email that way, and then I’ll send you the code for posting smilies.
Zeke,
This a personal favorite…
“Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness….
Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes,
And prudent in their own sight!” Isaiah 5:20-21
I can see both sides, you want to try to change peoples hearts but at the same time it is wrong to bend your own morals.
Hey Bethany. Its wrong to do evil that good may come. Promoting the idea that any level of government should be able to decide whether or not to legalize crime is extremely evil.
If you think that the only way to “convert” a pro-abort is by promoting this vile idea that the government has the leeway to legalize murder then I would much rather promote what is just and good and let the pro-aborts hate me and go to Hell.
I’m glad you think I’m going to hell, Zeke. Such venom is surely a wonderful aspect of Christianity!
Zeke, as I read it, Jill was not congratulating Leah on being *correct* about it being okay for the government to legalize crime. She, in my opinion, was praising Leah for saying something that was honest. Honest doesn’t always mean true.
For instance, I could truly believe something, and tell people I believed it was true, and I would be honest to do so…but I wouldn’t necessarily be correct.
Leah, in this instance, was speaking in an honest fashion…and for that, Jill was saying, “Bravo.”
Zeke, believe me, a little encouragement goes a long way.
I understand that you don’t want to compromise your morals…I agree! And believe me, I don’t think Jill is compromising hers! Please, carefully note the wording of things she says instead of jumping to conclusions about what you think she means.
Again, she is not congratulating Leah for being “right”, but for being “honest”.
Also, I see it that Jill is relieved to see that Leah would not object to some states banning abortion.
God hates it when anyone says that ANY level of government has the option or the leeway to legalize murder or any other crime.
Zeke, we completely agree that abortion is murder. We completely agree that we want it completely banned in the United States, and everywhere for that matter. We consider children precious, a blessing from God. I hope you understand this.
What is your opinion of these verses below:
1Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
5Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
Jill referred to what Leah said as “clear and honest thinking”. In other words, since the pro-abort Leah agrees with Jill that state governments ought to decide whether to legalize murder or not Jill is happy to hear that because in her demented mind that is an example of “clear and honest thinking”.
In Jill and Leah’s thinking the US Constitution takes precedence over God’s command You shall not murder.
Jill’s strategy (along with National Right To Life and other groups) is just as Godless as Leah’s. That’s why they BOTH think that individual state governments should think of themselves as the ones who decide whether to legalize crimes like murder or not.
Bethany asked:
“What is your opinion of these verses below:
1Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
5Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.”
I don’t know if you’ve noticed Bethany, but the US government is NOT acting as a minister of God and excuting wrath on those who do evil.
Others have used these verses to justify Hitler and the Nazi’s actions to Germans. Should those in germany at that time have pointed to these verses and claimed that they needed to obey the fuhrer’s laws which included executing Jews for such crimes as hoarding eggs?
Once a government legalizes killing the innocent (as Nazi Germany and the US government has done) they become an illegitimate government.
Erin said:
“I’m glad you think I’m going to hell, Zeke. Such venom is surely a wonderful aspect of Christianity!”
Anyone who says its OK to violently slaughter a completely innocent and defenseless baby must be assumed to be lost and headed to Hell at that moment. To think otherwise would be extremely foolish.
Zeke, I don’t quite understand. You think it is evil to ask the government to make abortion illegal because it supposes that the illegitimate government has the right to control that standard. It is illegitimate because the laws are not all based on the Bible.
But you are against abortion in general.
Is this correct? I don’t get it.
PIP,
He’s saying it shouldn’t be legal at all and it shouldn’t be up to the states for that same reason. When the government starts legalizing murder it is useless.
Rosie, I agree with him on much of the stuff he says, but I definitely disagree with the way he argues about it. He could be much more respectful of Jill, who has spent the last decade working hard to change people’s minds about abortion, and to get laws passed to protect babies’ lives. He and others, in the last few months, have been working to ridicule her, instead of politely and respectfully objecting or letting her know their views. They feel they must resort to insult (one of them even implied that Jill had a part in those babies dying at Christ hospital, and was therefore a murderer. That’s when I thought they went too far.)
I don’t think he is being fair or rational.
Zeke, why are you directing anger at me and Jill, someone who agree with you about abortion, instead of the dozens here who are saying that they are perfectly fine with legalized abortion?
I don’t know if you’ve noticed Bethany, but the US government is NOT acting as a minister of God and excuting wrath on those who do evil.
I was simply asking what your views were on that particular set of verses. I was genuinely curious.
Rosie–
Ahh, okay. The way he was explaining it was confusing.
I’ve gotten dizzy a few times while reading a few posts myself:)
Hi gang,
I’m so glad you took Zeke to the task. It seems he very much falls into the role of the 2nd brother in Jesus’ parable about the Prodigal Son. [We tend to forget about the impact of our modern communication. When his son left, he was gone – he might be dead – the father doesn’t know.]
Our role is not to judge but to freely dispense mercy (as does God Himself) + a humdinger of a party . [Remember that the 2nd son is the one who “refused to go in”.]
Zeke, for the record, I was congratulating Leah, a pro-abort, for stating, “but honestly, Roe v. Wade is out of the norm.” I was also glad she was open to letting states decide, which is not typical of a pro-abort.
I’ve explained several times, as recently as a couple days ago in a comment on this very weekend question, that pro-lifers want a Human Life Amendment to the Constitution first, but if that’s not possible, work on getting rid of Roe v. Wade and letting each state decide. That’s a big step in the right direction. Many states would ban or severely curtail abortion immediately.