Planned Parenthood’s Day of Prayer
A full page ad featuring 21 “religious leaders” called for a “Day of Prayer” yesterday in the Aurora Beacon, Chicago Tribune, and Daily Herald. The ad stated it was “Paid for by Planned Parenthood/Chicago Area.”
So we had dueling clergy in the newspaper yesterday, because 121 pro-life clergy from churches in the Aurora Planned Parenthood area also took out a full page ad in the Aurora Beacon and Naperville Sun.
I scanned the entire ad in sections and pieced it together, but it’s not clear. (Click to enlarge.)
So following is the enlarged message and enlarged list of signers. (Click both to enlarge.)….
We already know Randall Doubet-King is a PP board member.
I found Rev. Larry Greenfield is a PP “consultant.”
A person of interest to my Catholic friends would be Donna Quinn, a feminist Dominican nun, who achieved infamy in Chicago Catholic circles in 2005 for breaking a communion wafer just handed her by a priest at Holy Name Cathedral and handing half to a Rainbow Sash homosexual protester.
Poking around a little, I found most members of this group are long-standing allies of PP and its agenda, such as promoting comprehensive sex ed, fighting religious hospitals that do not want to distribute the morning-after pill, etc. This is apparently the usual list of suspects PP calls on when it wants to put a collar around abortion.
[HT: Dan Gura]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Mmm, classy.
What can you say to this? It’s the pro-choice movement at its best.
“When I do good, I feel good. When I do bad, I feel bad. And that is my religion.”
Lets all remeber what Margret Sanger(Founder of PP) said. If you get the churches to sign on, especially in the minority neighborhoods, we can control the minortiy population and the white masses will follow. How true! How true!
And look who signed this statement. None of the Mainline Protestant Churches, the Catholic Church, or Bible Churches signed onto it. Unless The Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice counts. If you don’t know them, check them out. They are very active in trying to get churches into supporting abortion, BPA, no parental notification for minors, “comprehensive sex-ed” and lots more!
Hey did you know that there is a Church of the Sponge Bob Square Pants?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3906687.stm
^ Seriously, check it out!
Maybe we should all switch to this religion to focus on being nice to one another and being creative with our imaginations :-)
Newsflash: “Poking around a little, I found most members of this group are long-standing allies of PP and its agenda, such as promoting comprehensive sex ed, fighting religious hospitals that do not want to distribute the morning-after pill, etc. This is apparently the usual list of suspects PP calls on when it wants to put a collar around abortion.”
Planned Parenthood is asking its supporters to support them. hmmmm. Are we supposed to be surprised that the clergy supporting this clinic are Long-standing allies?” Aren’t many of the protesters “long-standing critics of planned parenthood?”
This is what happens in a public dispute, your supports support and your critics criticize.
Still, you’re left with the problem that you can support abortion (and the rest of the “agenda”)while still being a good religious person and even an ordained minister. I guess there’s no way to know which side God is on…..
Still, you’re left with the problem that you can support abortion (and the rest of the “agenda”)while still being a good religious person and even an ordained minister. I guess there’s no way to know which side God is on…..
I call those people wolves in sheep’s clothing.
Hey did you know that there is a Church of the Sponge Bob Square Pants?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3906687.stm
^ Seriously, check it out!
Maybe we should all switch to this religion to focus on being nice to one another and being creative with our imaginations :-)
oh my goodness! LOL Now, I love sponge bob, but I don’t think I’d go that far!
Imagggiinnnaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaation!
Still, you’re left with the problem that you can support abortion (and the rest of the “agenda”)while still being a good religious person and even an ordained minister. I guess there’s no way to know which side God is on…..
I seriously hope this is a joke. God makes it quite clear what side he’s on. Because people become ordained by men in some made-up religion that they misnom as Christian doesn’t imply anything bad about Christ- but everything bad about them.
What about the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?
RAmen!
By the way- pray and ask God to support child sacrifice, deadly sexual immorality, the abuse of women and children, the blastpheme of His name, ad nauseum.
Good luck with that.
Sure, PP, plenty of religions support murder. For example, ancient pagans practiced human sacrifice. Hey, actually, modern pagans do the same thing. They just call it “choice” now.
I’m starting to think that the only good to come out of Unitarian churches is converts to Christianity. Are Unitarians ever on the right side of anything?
“ordained by men in some made-up religion”
Finally, you’re starting to see it my way.
By the way- pray and ask God to support child sacrifice, deadly sexual immorality, the abuse of women and children, the blastpheme of His name, ad nauseum.
Good luck with that.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here ‘ya go.
Your God LOVES abortion, child sacrifice, child abuse, and the murder of women and children:
Abortion:
Hosea 9:11-16 Hosea prays for God
You’re right, Laura! The Bible supports abortion! Every Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant interpretation of those verses is wrong. Let us admit our error and all convert to Laurism, because she knows what Jesus REALLY meant.
Anyway, Laura has shown that the Bible is really pro-abortion, therefore our pro-life beliefs must not be biblical, but instead must be scientific and based on objective evidence. If the Bible is not pro-life, then that’s the only possible explanation! So we pro-lifers are on the side of science.
Your “pro-choice” beliefs are the religious ones, apparently. Haven’t you ever heard of the separation of church and state? Stop trying to force your biblical view that it’s OK to kill children on the rest of us!
By the way, Laura, provide a link to your copy and paste job next time. Nobody likes a plagiarist:
http://www.evilbible.com/god's%20not%20pro-life.htm
Give credit where credit is due. Unless you happen to be the webmaster of “evilbible.com” If that’s the case, seek psychiatric help.
“If a wicked man turns away from all the sins he has committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die
All these descriptions of God depict him as unwavering in retribution on evil, though he takes no delight in it, and also unwavering in love and encouragement toward those hearts are turned toward him. God’s obvious desire is that sinners should repent and live. But there comes a point where evil is finally intolerable and wiped from off the earth.
We must see these terrible retributions in their historical setting. The spread of wickedness was so pervasive that immorality, degradation, and barbarity invaded every facet of life. Children were sacrificed to pagan gods. Male and female prostitution took place right in the temple as part of the religious rites. Idol worship was rife and the society wholly contaminated. This evil was contagious and God’s people were in danger of being infected as well. God’s awesome judgement was finally unleashed.
Today we have lost that black and white distinction between good and evil. Tolerance is presented as the great religious value. Indeed, tolerance of diversity is a high Christian value, but often today tolerance is taken to mean the virtue of accepting nearly every behavior under the sun. Anything goes – in the name of tolerance! A sweeping moral relativism is the result, and children grow up with fewer and fewer moral absolutes to guide them. We seldom hear the term sin anymore, but instead a dozen much milder words are employed. Surely the Lord will not tolerate this abomination to his holiness forever.
Nor do we like to accept the fact that when evil spreads, the innocent as well as the guilty are hurt. Let’s be clear about this stricter and more communal view of justice in the Bible. The Canaanite pagan communities would surely intermarry with the Israelites, and God’s people were in danger of succumbing to their sexual perversions and religious degradation. Finally, the danger became just too much
The entire Bible from beginning to end never deviates from this standard of justice as well as grace. Jesus is crystal clear about the punishment of evildoers, for on the day of judgement God will say to the evildoers, “Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels” (Matthew 25:41). Our society does not much care to hear about pain and punishment, and prefers the meek and mild Jesus of some contemporary writers. But the God of the New Testament is the changeless God of the ages.
http://www.ibs.org/bibles/about/9.php
All these descriptions of God depict him as unwavering in retribution on evil, though he takes no delight in it, and also unwavering in love and encouragement toward those hearts are turned toward him. God’s obvious desire is that sinners should repent and live. But there comes a point where evil is finally intolerable and wiped from off the earth.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Do as I say or I’ll kill you?
Your god sounds like a terrorist. I don’t obey terrorists.
Your god sounds like a terrorist. I don’t obey terrorists.
You don’t obey anyone.
We should never have attacked Hitler. After all, who are we to judge. You really don’t want to go around eliminating people just because their veiws are different than yours.
Tell me Laura, how did you feel on 9-11 when those buildings went down. Did you not for just a second wish that lightening would strike down every one of the men and women that caused that tragedy?
Would God not have been doing us a favor to have stepped in and cause all of those guys to have car crashes before they got on those planes?
And had the tragedy been avoided, would you then be complaining because God is violent?
These “ministers” are the ultimate apostates.
They have betrayed Jesus Christ and his Gospel.
What about all the priests who vastly misunderstood Jesus’ statement- “Let the little children come unto me”
This is probably uncalled for, but it was the first thing that popped into my head.
Yeah, Laura is against terrorism. Laura only supports infanticide. She’s what you call a “cafeteria neo-pagan”.
IT’S A YUMMY FETUS…
http://cgi.ebay.com/UNBORN-FETUS-SWEET-AND-SOUR-PORK_W0QQitemZ160157973518QQihZ006QQcategoryZ1469QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Seriously, that’s one of the funniest things I’ve ever seen on ebay.
You find that funny Erin?
jasper, it’s not actually a fetus. So yes. I do.
What happened to separation of church and state?
What in the world are abortion advocates doing calling on clergy to support them? Aren’t these the very people who scream that clergy have no business speaking out against abortion, that this violates the separation of church and state. But when clergy speak out for abortion, why, that’s just fine. Quite an interesting double standard wouldn’t you say?
ll these descriptions of God depict him as unwavering in retribution on evil, though he takes no delight in it, and also unwavering in love and encouragement toward those hearts are turned toward him. God’s obvious desire is that sinners should repent and live. But there comes a point where evil is finally intolerable and wiped from off the earth.
We must see these terrible retributions in their historical setting. The spread of wickedness was so pervasive that immorality, degradation, and barbarity invaded every facet of life. Children were sacrificed to pagan gods. Male and female prostitution took place right in the temple as part of the religious rites. Idol worship was rife and the society wholly contaminated. This evil was contagious and God’s people were in danger of being infected as well. God’s awesome judgement was finally unleashed.
Today we have lost that black and white distinction between good and evil. Tolerance is presented as the great religious value. Indeed, tolerance of diversity is a high Christian value, but often today tolerance is taken to mean the virtue of accepting nearly every behavior under the sun. Anything goes – in the name of tolerance! A sweeping moral relativism is the result, and children grow up with fewer and fewer moral absolutes to guide them. We seldom hear the term sin anymore, but instead a dozen much milder words are employed. Surely the Lord will not tolerate this abomination to his holiness forever.
Nor do we like to accept the fact that when evil spreads, the innocent as well as the guilty are hurt. Let’s be clear about this stricter and more communal view of justice in the Bible. The Canaanite pagan communities would surely intermarry with the Israelites, and God’s people were in danger of succumbing to their sexual perversions and religious degradation. Finally, the danger became just too much
The entire Bible from beginning to end never deviates from this standard of justice as well as grace. Jesus is crystal clear about the punishment of evildoers, for on the day of judgement God will say to the evildoers, “Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels” (Matthew 25:41). Our society does not much care to hear about pain and punishment, and prefers the meek and mild Jesus of some contemporary writers. But the God of the New Testament is the changeless God of the ages.
http://www.ibs.org/bibles/about/9.php
Posted by: mk at September 17, 2007 6:26 PM
……………………….
Honey, if the Bible didn’t digress, there wouldn’t have been the Protestant movement. Lead by RCC Bible scholars. Where do you find Christian ‘truth’. The back of a Kellog’s box/the internet?
What happened to separation of church and state?
What in the world are abortion advocates doing calling on clergy to support them? Aren’t these the very people who scream that clergy have no business speaking out against abortion, that this violates the separation of church and state. But when clergy speak out for abortion, why, that’s just fine. Quite an interesting double standard wouldn’t you say?
Posted by: Mary at September 17, 2007 8:08 PM
Hmmm. You have a problem with those that have actually studied Christian Theology and don’t find abortion as some klnd of sin and don’t wish to mix their theological beliefs with law to influence the American Constitution less than our forefathers?
Get thee to history class.
Sally,
You are the one who needs to get yourself to a history class, and fast. The movement to legalize abortion used the argument of separation of church and state in an effort to silence religious opposition, especially from the Catholic church. By the way Sally, the Catholic Church was singled out by abortion advocates as a common enemy against which abortion supporters could rally, and against whom they could rally the American public. Its not that the Catholic Church opposed abortion any more than other religions, its that they had a hierarchy against whom abortion advocates could rally supporters. Very convenient. Something like how the KKK selected Jews and blacks as scapegoats to rally supporters to their cause. Having a scapegoat in common works wonders, as any hate group will tell you.
However, clergy speaking out for abortion was never deemed a violation of the separation of church and state.
I’m sure you would agree Sally that if it is deemed a violation of church/state seperation for clergy to speak against abortion, then it is no less a violation of church/state seperation for clergy to speak in support of abortion.
Perhaps you should remind abortion advocates of this.
“jasper, it’s not actually a fetus. So yes. I do.”
you have a twisted sense of humor.
Mary, excellent post. jasper, I agree with you.
AMERICA – Not a Christian Nation!
The Bible? Here is what our Founding Fathers wrote about Bible-based Christianity:
Thomas Jefferson:
I have examined all the known superstitions of the word, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth.
SIX HISTORIC AMERICANS,
by John E. Remsburg, letter to William Short
Jefferson again:
Christianity…(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. …Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus.
More Jefferson:
The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves…these clergy, in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ.
Jefferson’s word for the Bible?
Dunghill.
John Adams:
Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole carloads of other trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days?
Also Adams:
The doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity.
Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli. Article 11 states:
The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.
Here’s Thomas Paine:
I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to that book (the Bible).
Among the most detestable villains in history, you could not find one worse than Moses. Here is an order, attributed to ‘God’ to butcher the boys, to massacre the mothers and to debauch and rape the daughters. I would not dare so dishonor my Creator’s name by (attaching) it to this filthy book (the Bible).
It is the duty of every true Deist to vindicate the moral justice of God against the evils of the Bible.
Accustom a people to believe that priests and clergy can forgive sins…and you will have sins in abundance.
The Christian church has set up a religion of pomp and revenue in pretended imitation of a person (Jesus) who lived a life of poverty.
Finally let’s hear from James Madison:
What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy.
Madison objected to state-supported chaplains in Congress and to the exemption of churches from taxation. He wrote:
Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.
These founding fathers were a reflection of the American population. Having escaped from the state-established religions of Europe, only 7% of the people in the 13 colonies belonged to a church when the Declaration of Independence was signed.Among those who confuse Christianity with the founding of America, the rise of conservative Baptists is one of the more interesting developments. The Baptists believed God’s authority came from the people, not the priesthood, and they had been persecuted for this belief. It was they
Erin-
That’s SOO weird! If I saw that in my plate at a restaurant I would totally be grossed out too.
ally,
You are the one who needs to get yourself to a history class, and fast. The movement to legalize abortion used the argument of separation of church and state in an effort to silence religious opposition, especially from the Catholic church. By the way Sally, the Catholic Church was singled out by abortion advocates as a common enemy against which abortion supporters could rally, and against whom they could rally the American public. Its not that the Catholic Church opposed abortion any more than other religions, its that they had a hierarchy against whom abortion advocates could rally supporters. Very convenient. Something like how the KKK selected Jews and blacks as scapegoats to rally supporters to their cause. Having a scapegoat in common works wonders, as any hate group will tell you.
However, clergy speaking out for abortion was never deemed a violation of the separation of church and state.
I’m sure you would agree Sally that if it is deemed a violation of church/state seperation for clergy to speak against abortion, then it is no less a violation of church/state seperation for clergy to speak in support of abortion.
Perhaps you should remind abortion advocates of this.
Posted by: Mary at September 17, 2007 9:19 PM
I would be trying to remind Christians of where they come from in this country. You don’t know much about this and you make that evident.
There hasn’t been a Catholic in my family since the Reformation. You know, those Catholic scholars that dared to tell the people that the world is actually round. And got themselves inquistioned for their intelligent honesty over RCC God dictatates? I need a history class? Sorry honey, you couln’t make through kindergarten Sunday School with me.
Laura really should stop plagiarizing nonsense:
http://freethought.homestead.com/America.html
I ***love*** how the anti-theists say that the Founding Fathers were a bunch of anti-Christians… but those folks who owned slaves and killed the Native Americans? Why those were all Christians, of course! What a riot. Did not Thomas Jefferson own slaves?! I am incapable of rolling my eyes sufficiently to indicate the ridiculousness of these anti-theists.
Congratulations Sally, you’ve revealed that a very large, very complicated book called the Bible can have more than one interpretation.
I can understand it if people don’t consider abortion to be a “sin”. However, only an ignorant buffoon who knows nothing about science could argue that abortion is not homicide.
Sally,
I’ll try to be nice here. You’re not making any sense, nor are you addressing what I said in my post. You might want to try again.
John, you wrote: “only an ignorant buffoon who knows nothing about science could argue that abortion is not homicide.”
Abortion is JUSTIFIABLE homicide.
Erin,
I’m sorry to hear about the precancerous cells. What day and time is surgery scheduled? I would like to keep you in my thoughts and prayers at that time, if it’s okay with you.
Somg,One day abortion will be illegal.
“When I do good, I feel good. When I do bad, I feel bad. And that is my religion.”
? Christopher Reeve.
Quote from the home page of the Universalist/Unitarian church…
From Women Church:
WE BELIEVE:
Women are free moral agents with authority to take full responsibility for their lives. Women create policy; develop and provide feminist ministry and feminist theology; and act as ministers of sacramental life.
Women’s spirituality and justice work are essential to being church.
Women are, and of right ought to be, the primary decision makers in matters of reproduction, sexuality and women’s health.
(So basically, this is a church that worships sex?)
I’m surprised the church of Doug and the Church of Erin aren’t listed…lol
MK, Christopher Reeve was a good guy.
I don’t see what was said there as meaning that sex is worshipped. It’s giving the opinion that women should be the ones to decide for themselves about (their own) sexuality.
Tell you what – I bet the Church of Erin would be very cool.
Myself, I like The Church of the Second Chance. I don’t credit for making that one up, either.
Doug
Doug,
I never said Christopher Reeve was promoting sex. Just watered down, touchy feely, whatever feels good is good philosophy.
Oh Laura, must we really drag this old disproved theory up again?
I’m replying to your copy and paste with a copy and paste of my own.
***********************8
Early Years
The First Charter of Virginia (granted by King James I, on April 10, 1606)
Aurora: ground zero
I got a call from a reporter at the Chicago Tribune yesterday pursuing a story line as to whether the Aurora Planned Parenthood situation was getting national traction among pro-lifers and pro-aborts alike. I’m quoted at the end. I was…
Laura loves copy and pastes! So I’ve got another one for her, Re: abortion and the Bible:
***************************************
The Bible and Abortion: The Biblical Basis for a Prolife Position
by Rich Deem
Introduction
The Bible declares that God values all human life and that He wants all people to come to repentance to inherit eternal life.1 The Bible explains that the entire life of a human – from the beginning to its natural end – is sacred, since God determines the length of those days.2 When does human life begin? This page will examine that question from a biblical perspective.
When does life begin?
Many Christians believe that the Bible is silent in regard to God’s view on life before birth. Although the Bible does not specifically define when life begins, it does give us enough information to formulate a solid biblical position.
The sayings of Jesus
Jesus demonstrated the love of God for children often during His ministry. In one passage, Jesus took a child to him and sat with him. He said, “See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you, that their angels in heaven continually behold the face of My Father who is in heaven” (Matthew 18:10). Jesus tells us not to despise or look down upon the least powerful and significant (by human standards) of humans. It is ironic that the most helpless humans are those inside the womb. Of all the risks that we must face in our lives, the most dangerous place we can be is in the womb, since fully one third of all human babies are aborted in this nation – over one million every year. Greater than 98% of all abortions are done for non-medical reasons.
Old Testament law
The Old Testament provides most of the information on God’s view of life before birth, since it gives us the law. The law specifically addresses the issue of taking the life of a fetus in the book of Exodus:
“And if men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband may demand of him; and he shall pay as the judges decide. But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life.” (Exodus 21:22-23)
Therefore, the law tells us that a man who induces an abortion or miscarriage is to be punished, indicating that God values life before birth. A verse from Hosea3 says that abortion is a punishment for sin, indicating God views it as bad. Likewise, God expressed His disgust for the Ammonites, who “ripped open the pregnant women of Gilead”.4 When does this life begin?
Human life begins in the womb
The Bible tells us God is involved in our creation from the womb:
“Did not He who made me in the womb make him, And the same one fashion us in the womb? (Job 31:15)
Yet Thou art He who didst bring me forth from the womb; Thou didst make me trust when upon my mother’s breasts. Upon Thee I was cast from birth; Thou hast been my God from my mother’s womb. (Psalms 22:9-10)
For Thou didst form my inward parts; Thou didst weave me in my mother’s womb. I will give thanks to Thee, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Thy works, And my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from Thee, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth. Thine eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Thy book they were all written, The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them. (Psalms 139:13-16)
Thus says the LORD who made you And formed you from the womb, who will help you, `Do not fear, O Jacob My servant; And you Jeshurun whom I have chosen. (Isaiah 44:2)
Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, “I, the LORD, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself, And spreading out the earth all alone, (Isaiah 44:24)
Human vs. animal
God distinguishes between human life and animal life, since the killing of animals has been allowed by God from as early as just after the fall.5 It would be helpful to first define what makes human life different from that of the animals. The Bible says that God created three kinds of creatures:
1. Creatures which possess bodies (Hebrew – basar, Greek – swma) only
2. Creatures which possess bodies and souls (Hebrew – nephesh, Greek – psuchay)
3. Creatures which possess bodies, souls, and spirits (Hebrew – ruach, Greek – pneuma)
Most of God’s creatures possess bodies only. These creatures include the insects, worms, fish, etc. God defines the creatures possessing souls as being the birds, the whales, the predatory and domesticated land mammals, and human beings (Genesis 1:20-27). Creatures which possess a soul have the characteristics of having a mind, a will, and emotion. Most of us who have cats or dogs realize that these soulish creatures have all these character traits.
Therefore, the difference between human life and animal life is that, in addition to having a body and soul, we are endowed with a spirit, (1 Thessalonians 5:23), by which we can communicate with, love, and worship God. The Bible tells us that God forms this spirit within us,6 and we are endowed with a spirit before birth (Luke 1:15), which makes us fully human before we are born.
Prophets called from the womb
In addition, there are a number of great men of God (and Jesus) who were called to be God’s servants from the womb:
Samson:
Then the woman came and told her husband, saying, “A man of God came to me and his appearance was like the appearance of the angel of God, very awesome. And I did not ask him where he came from, nor did he tell me his name. “But he said to me, `Behold, you shall conceive and give birth to a son, and now you shall not drink wine or strong drink nor eat any unclean thing, for the boy shall be a Nazirite to God from the womb to the day of his death.'” (Judges 13:6-7, see also Judges 16:17)
Jesus (prophecy):
Listen to Me, O islands, And pay attention, you peoples from afar. The LORD called Me from the womb; From the body of My mother He named Me. (Isaiah 49:1)
And now says the LORD, who formed Me from the womb to be His Servant, To bring Jacob back to Him, in order that Israel might be gathered to Him (For I am honored in the sight of the LORD, And My God is My strength), (Isaiah 49:5)
Yet Thou art He who didst bring me forth from the womb; Thou didst make me trust when upon my mother’s breasts. Upon Thee I was cast from birth; Thou hast been my God from my mother’s womb. (Psalms 22:9-10)
Jeremiah:
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.” (Jeremiah 1:5)
John the Baptist:
“For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and he will drink no wine or liquor; and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, while yet in his mother’s womb.” (Luke 1:15)
Paul:
But when He who had set me apart, even from my mother’s womb, and called me through His grace, was pleased (Galatians 1:15)
In addition, the Bible tells us the wicked are estranged or enemies of God from the womb:
The wicked are estranged from the womb; These who speak lies go astray from birth. (Psalms 58:3)
What is murder?
All of the above verses tell us God considers us to be human before we are born, but they don’t answer the question of when we actually become so. I propose there is a way to know what God considers the latest point in development at which we must consider a fetus to be a living human. Even before God gave Moses the law, when He gave Noah and his family all the animals for food (in addition to the plants), He told them, “Only you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood” (Genesis 9:4). At the same time, God gave the law and penalty for murder (described as the shedding of “man’s blood”).7 Therefore, God considers blood to be the basis for life and the shedding of human blood, which results in death, to be murder. Science tells us that the heart of the human fetus begins to form 18 days after conception.8 There is a measurable heart beat 21-24 days after conception.9 Since blood is flowing at this point, it is likely that blood formation begins well before day 21 (I could find no reference for the date at which blood formation begins). Therefore, this represents the latest date at which we must consider the fetus to be human (according to biblical standards), which is only 7-10 days after a women would expect to begin her menses. Most women have cycles that can vary by this amount, and therefore do not discover they are pregnant until after this point. For all practical purposes, from a biblical perspective, abortion at any point must be considered murder by Bible-believing Christians.
Final words
I did not write this article with the intent to condemn those who have aborted their babies or participated in decisions to do so. Praise be to God that He has provided a way for all of us to escape the condemnation we all rightfully deserve.
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. (Romans 8:1)
Related Pages Top of page
1. Abortion and the Early Christian Church
2. Early Church Fathers and Abortion
3. Is Abortion Biblical? by Casey Carmical from Casey’s Critical Thinking
4. Science and Abortion- The Scientific Basis for a Prolife Position
5. D & X (Partial Birth) Abortions
6. Testimony of Gianna Jessen, Hearing on H.R. 4292, the “Born-Alive Infants Protection Act of 2000”, House Judiciary Subcommittee on the Constitution, July 20, 2000
7. Testimony of Jill L. Stanek, RN, Hearing on H.R. 4292, the “Born-Alive Infants Protection Act of 2000”, House Judiciary Subcommittee on the Constitution, July 20, 2000
References Top of page
1. The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9)
2. Thine eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Thy book they were all written, The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them. (Psalms 139:16)
3. Give them, O LORD– what wilt Thou give? Give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. (Hosea 9:14)
4. Thus says the LORD, “For three transgressions of the sons of Ammon and for four I will not revoke its punishment, Because they ripped open the pregnant women of Gilead In order to enlarge their borders.” (Amos 1:13)
5. And Abel, on his part also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of their fat portions. And the LORD had regard for Abel and for his offering; (Genesis 4:4)
6. The burden of the word of the LORD concerning Israel. Thus declares the LORD who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him, (Zechariah 12:1)
7. “Whoever sheds man’s blood, By man his blood shall be shed, For in the image of God He made man.” (Genesis 9:6)
8. University of Pennsylvania web site: “http://www.med.upenn.edu/embryo_project/heart/heart.html”
9. “Life Before Birth” Life Magazine Educational Reprint 27, April 30, 1965, page 6.
http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/prolife.html#n04
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Oooh, look…it uses many of the same references she used in HER argument!
I never said Christopher Reeve was promoting sex. Just watered down, touchy feely, whatever feels good is good philosophy.
MK, I don’t think he meant whatever feels good is good. I think he was right in line with all or almost all the exceedingly common moral feelings that people have around the world.
Doug
Again Doug,
Whatever. Not going to argue with you. I was pointing out that these “So-called” churches have nothing to do with following God and have everything to do with following “self”. Thus, their validity as Christian organizations is not justified and teie stance on abortion should not be put forward as a Christian tenet. Nothing more. Nothing less.
MK: I was pointing out that these “So-called” churches have nothing to do with following God and have everything to do with following “self”. Thus, their validity as Christian organizations is not justified and teie stance on abortion should not be put forward as a Christian tenet. Nothing more. Nothing less.
Okay, your opinion.
“Somg,One day abortion will be illegal.”
Maybe yes, maybe no. But everyone who wants one will still get one. What will you have accomplished?
The way to reduce abortions is to improve the technology of birth control. That will happen, probably in the next 10 to 15 years. People being people, there will still be some unwanted pregnancies. So, I assume they will also perfect the “abortion pill.”
Hal, let them get their abortions then. If they break the law, they should go to prison with the rest off the murderers. I still don’t understand why women weren’t held accountable in the back ally days. They should have gotten prison time, not sympathy!
Heather, that brings up a problem, though – if you want those women sent to prison, what if they already have kids? Is it really good for kids to lock up their mom?
Doug
Yes Doug,
My opinion. And the Catholic Churches opinion. And any number of other legitimate Christian denominations opinion. Happy?
Hal,
Maybe yes, maybe no. But everyone who wants one will still get one. What will you have accomplished?
I doubt that 45 million illegal abortion will be performed. I doubt that 4000 woman daily will have an illegal abortion.
And what it will accomplish is that just like rape and murder, we are a society of human beings and not animals, and don’t accept behaior from our citizens that says otherwise. We are a nation that takes responsibility for it’s actions and a nation that takes care of and protects it weakest members. It will be on record that we are a noble nation. A caring nation. A CIVILIZED nation and not a hedonistic society. It will make me proud to put American before my name. That’s what it will accomplish.
Doug, it should teach them to have some self control and responsibility. Doug, like it , or not, we have plenty of incarcerated women who are parents. Sorry. Murder is murder. You and I can’t do it. W’ell go to the poky for life. Why should they be any different?
Doug, it should teach them to have some self control and responsibility. Doug, like it , or not, we have plenty of incarcerated women who are parents. Sorry. Murder is murder. You and I can’t do it. W’ell go to the poky for life. Why should they be any different?
Because as of now abortion is not illegal, and because the kids deserve consideration, too – my opinion. There isn’t any rational debate about them not being able to suffer, etc.
Having kids doesn’t keep a woman out of jail, no, but we are thinking about all the pros and cons of abortion and possibly illegal abortion here, and it’s part of the mix.
Doug
This ad of theirs is absolutely embarrasing! That are a lauging stock trying to embrace “religion”.
I agree, Liza. They should be embarrassed.
SoMG said: “Abortion is JUSTIFIABLE homicide.”
What further need is there for discussion? The pro-abort admits that abortion is homicide.
Hal –
“The way to reduce abortions is to improve the technology of birth control. That will happen, probably in the next 10 to 15 years. People being people, there will still be some unwanted pregnancies. So, I assume they will also perfect the “abortion pill.”
Contraception have been improving year after year after year for decades. We have more and more and more different forms even. Care to explain why the numbers kept going up?
AGI = Guttmacher Institute
CDC = Center for disease control
***number of abortions per year
(AGI) (CDC)
1973 744,600 615,831
1974 898,600 763,476
1975 1,034,200 854,853
1976 1,179,300 988,267
1977 1,316,700 1,079,430
1978 1,409,600 1,157,776
1979 1,497,700 1,251,921
1980 1,553,900 1,297,606
1981 1,577,300 1,300,760
1982 1,573,900 1,303,980
1983 1,575,000 1,268,987
1984 1,577,200 1,333,521
1985 1,588,600 1,328,570
1986 1,574,000 1,328,112
1987 1,559,100 1,353,671
1988 1,590,800 1,371,285
1989 1,566,900 1,396,658
1990 1,608,600 1,429,577
1991 1,556,500 1,388,937
1992 1,528,900 1.359,145
1993 1,500,000 1,330,414
1994 1,431,000 1,267,415
1995 1,363,690 1,210,883
1996 1,365,730 1,221,585
1997 1,365,730 1,186,039
1998 1,365,730 884,273*
1999 1,365,730 861,789*
2000 1,312,990 857,475**
2001 1,303,000& 853,485**
2002 1,293,000&
2003 1,293,000&&
2004 1,293,000&&
&AGI estimate
&&NRLC base figure
*excludes NH, CA, AK, OK
**excludes NH, CA, AK
In 1998 when the CDC’s number go down, that is because California (responsible for 17% of america’s abortions according to the Guttmatcher institute) wasn’t included in the numbers. And after 2000 the AGI only report “estimates”.
BC keeps improving. Abortion numbers increase or stay the same. When, exactly, will the abortion numbers go down based on better contraception?
Oops…that didn’t copy and paste very well. I had that saved and forgot to put in the website address I got it from…I will get it in just a minute….
Okay – Can’t find the website I got it off of….
Does anyone know how to look up the history by day and not by – “3 weeks ago”… I went through alot of website that week!
BC keeps improving. Abortion numbers increase or stay the same. When, exactly, will the abortion numbers go down based on better contraception?
Valerie, I’d say the rate per person or given number of people is going down. There are more and more people every year.
Doug
Double standard indeed!
Abortion and Christianity have NOTHING to do with one another, get serious now…”If it talks like a duck”?
Jesus Christ is a Loving God, “Forgive them Father for they know not what they do”. I’ll save all of the “preaching” for the Word of God/NIV Bible to overtake your struggling hearts.
For all the fellow Christians out there; God is IN control…be THE Light in the lives of others!!! That is all we can do…until the enemy is bound! Rejoice in the days ahead!
Let God and Let God…He knows best, he created us all.