The abortion clinic car wash pep rally
You really must read this post on the Daily Kos. Here is the first combination intelligent, honest abortion proponent I’ve encountered in this entire PP Aurora debate who is actively involved in the process. S/he wrote so much good stuff, but I’m going to focus on excerpts about the crowd:
A 10 minute recess was taken, at which time, for reasons I cannot fathom, a sizable portion of the Planned Parenthood supporters, already outnumbered, left….
[T]he spots vacated by the Planned Parenthood folks and those who had said their piece on other issues were taken by more anti-abortion types…
The crowd inside was in inverse proportion to the one outside. Of the maybe 250 people in the room, I’d say that maybe 30 of them were Planned Parenthood supporters, and that’s an overly generous estimate….
Of the first 12 speakers, only two were Planned Parenthood supporters. I was becoming dismayed but still hopeful. The ratio for the next 6 turned out to be the same, 1 in support, the rest against….
At the halfway point of the meeting, we took another 10 minute break…. And I was angry. Not just a little angry, but burst into flame angry. But not for the reasons you think.
Yes, I was not at all happy at what I’d heard from the anti-abortion crowd, but it wasn’t anything I hadn’t expected….
[T]here just weren’t many pro-choice supporters who had signed up to speak. The street outside was still full of pro-choice protesters, but the City Council saw none of that, not until they went home and saw the news. What they saw was wall to wall anti-abortionists… a well-oiled machine of right-wing, fundie talking points….
What really pissed me off was the lack of opposition to the anti-abortionists inside the City Council Chamber. Yeah, the rally outside was good, but who, exactly, were we trying to influence here?
I encourage you again to read Got a Grip’s entire post. It is insightful.
The Aurora PP blog posted video of their outdoor display, remarking:
The rally has been totally exhilerating [sic]! At the height of it, we had about 250-300 people there and we outnumbered the anti-choice demonstrators by around 2 to 1. People driving by on the street were honking and waving and our chants and screams were the only thing that could be heard for blocks in any direction.
Jeff from CPLA had reported to me the pro-aborts were “shrieking” outside, in his words, which I thought might be an exaggeration. But if the PP Aurora blog reported their “chants and screams were the only thing that could be heard for blocks in any direction,” Jeff was correct.
PP’s email blast to supporters yesterday was equally breathless (click to enlarge):
When I watched the video of that which they were so proud, I just didn’t get what they were so proud of. I thought, I truly do not understand these people. They were behaving like high school cheerleaders advertising a car wash, and for that they were proud? They were “exhilerat[ed]” by their adolescent pep rally to forcibly sneak abortion into Aurora?
Honestly, this display was a dagger in my heart. If that makes them happy, so be it. But this is not fun and games. This is life and death, often torturous. And these people are bonafide blind, insert-expletive-here-I don’t-allow-on-this blog, simply useful idiots. That’s what I got from watching the video.
[HT for Kos post: readers grsroots and Phil E.; for PP email: Brian Burch]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Was there really many more PP supporters outside City Hall than Pro-life? I thought it was pretty even but a slight majority of PL.
Kristen, the Daily Herald reported similarly:
http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=45556
Attitudes like that are why I stopped going to the abortion facilities. The “escorts” treated every patient as if she was running a football into the endzone and they were there as offensive tackles to make sure she scored. They’d yell in the women’s ears or sing mindless ditties at jet-engine volume to keep them from hearing us, they’d body block the women from even reaching for the pamphlets, and then they’d burst into mad cheering and give each other high-fives. They behaved just like teenagers at a football game. It was sickening. No compassion. No concern. Just an obsession with making sure that nobody who had an appointment was able to weasel out of the commitment to keeping the abortion rate high enough to justify the existence of their little “feminist” organizations promoting something that even most prochoicers admit that women don’t really want in the first place.
End rant.
Christina,
Excellent post.
Christina, —exactly.
I just found this online. It’s VERY encouraging! A center in CA was bulldozed for not following the proper procedures. Below is a quote…
WASHINGTON, Sept. 27 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ “We’ve seen it all
before,” said Jim Sedlak, vice president of American Life League, referring
to the developing situation in Aurora, Illinois where Planned Parenthood is
reported to have constructed a new abortion facility without following the
proper procedures to obtain the required special use permit.
“In 2001 Planned Parenthood built a new abortion facility in Monrovia,
California and did not follow procedures,” said Sedlak. “Local citizens
filed lawsuits against the city and after a two year battle, the Planned
Parenthood facility was bulldozed and turned into a parking lot.
Kristen,
PP Bulldozed in Cal. very nice. let’s hope that happens again. Or turn the killing mill in Aurora into a life center or CPC.
…a well-oiled machine of right-wing, fundie talking points….
To be sure, the organized pro-life opposition to Aurora Planned Parenthood has been a decidedly ecumenical one.
That said, I always have to chuckle whenever I hear pro-aborts refer to pro-lifers en masse as “fundies”.
Case in point: A few years ago during one of our Face the Truth Tours, a group of pro-aborts started chanting the tired old “Keep your rosaries off my ovaries” at a few of us who were standing kitty-corner from them.
Most of us there were Catholic, but one of the non-Catholics in our group shouted back, “I’m Protestant!”
His response was greeted by looks of genuine confusion from the pro-aborts—they obviously had no clue about even the most basic differences between Catholics and Protestants.
“In 2001 Planned Parenthood built a new abortion facility in Monrovia,
California and did not follow procedures,” said Sedlak. “Local citizens
filed lawsuits against the city and after a two year battle, the Planned
Parenthood facility was bulldozed and turned into a parking lot.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
He forgot the part about Planned Parenthood already moving into a building that was 1/4 mile away, that PP had been operating for over a year, and that the city of Monrovia had to pay Planned Parenthood nearly TWICE what they had paid for the lot and structure.
I shouldn’t have posted my last comment so hastily. The case in point I cited didn’t exactly illustrate the point I was trying to make.
Laura – do you have a link to that information? I’ve been searching and can’t find anything about that on PP sites, PL sites, or searches.
Laura –
On the PP website I can’t find a location for Monrovia, CA and the closest one I could find was 16 miles away but was a PP Express. I don’t think they do abortions at the PP Express centers, do they?
I’m really interested in the information on the City of Monrovia having to pay for the PP facility. Can you send it?
Laura – do you have a link to that information? I’ve been searching and can’t find anything about that on PP sites, PL sites, or searches.
Posted by: Kristen at September 28, 2007 10:32
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I don’t have it. It was a HUGE local TV news story.
(…And the way I reacalled it, the clinic wasn’t an abortion facility.)
I’ll look for it…
Oh the irony!
From the STOPP webpage:
” Monrovia ended up buying the brand new abortion facility from PP in 2002 for over $800,000 and tore it down in April 2003 under the guise of redevelopment of the neighborhood. The PP abortion facility never opened, and no babies were killed there as a result!”
If you check the phone book, there are two other abortion clinics within a mile of the one torn down. Planned Parenhood stepped over the city line – by about 500 yards – and bought property there.
The one that was bulldozed in Monrovia was an abortion facility. I see that information on every article I read.
Christina,
“promoting something that even most prochoicers admit that women don’t really want in the first place.”
No one wants to have surgery. Surgery is a terrifying thing that carries substantial risk, regardless of what procedure is actually being preformed. Simply because one would prefer not to be in the situation where surgery is necessary in the first place does not mean that the surgery itself is unnecessary or wrong.
Enigma has an excellent point.
I know that I didn’t want any of my three surgeries. But I needed to have them done. The last two were the worst and carried the most risk, but I had them any ways. I had to bring a living will with me to the last two in “case” anything happened to me while I was on the operating table…
Thanks Laura, I know you probably don’t agree but I’m sure any PL will tell you the $800,000 was money well spent.
I did a map search on the PP facilities and, as stated, the closest one was 16 miles. Are those others PP? What city is/are they in? I’m not very familiar with CA.
Laura –
I found that statement on the STOPP website article. It does say it was an abortion clinic so are you saying that for the land AND the building (which was built by PP apparently)PP paid LESS than $400,000 in 2001? That doesn’t make sense.
Health care for women should not be in the same catergory as abortion.
There are abortion centers all over the LA area, we know that. Who cares how many miles there is one from Monrovia, West Covina, or wherever.
The point is: we want to provide women with the best choice she can make if she is pregnant. We don’t want her to live with a bad decision that she cannot undo. 9 months is a very short time to have to live with a baby in one’s womb. When the baby is born, a new life presents him or herself to the world. If the mom doesn’t think she can manage taking care of baby, there are millions of good married couples who would just die to adopt the little one.
Just 9 months! That’s all that’s needed.
On the other hand, if the mother chooses to kill her little one by suction abortion or D&C, or D&E, or chemicals, inside her heart of hearts, she knows what she has done: killed her baby.
She cannot undo that. She will have to live with that decision for the rest of her life.
Many women are inconsolable when they actually realize what they have done. Many, if not all, never ever *get over it.*
But on the other hand, if she had a CHOICE…
September 28, 2007 – Friday
Michigan Abortionist – Caught on Tape
Category: News and Politics
Allegations of illegal abortions in an unsanitary environment led state health investigators on Friday to seize the records of Michigan abortionist, Pornpichit Sethavarangura, a Detroit doctor, and launch an investigation.
The state seized the records following a WDIV-TVreport on Sethavarangura that alleges he fails to follow the law by disregarding a required 24-hour waiting period, failing to require identification and a willingness to offer abortions to minors. The video also alleges he offered “bargain” abortions of $150 and his office is unclean and without running water.
Since the airing of the report, the Michigan Department of Community Health has received one complaint from a patient, according to James McCurtis Jr., assistant to the department director. McCurtis declined to cite the nature of the complaint.
In the Interview, one woman said she was told her that baby was dead and she had to have an abortion, and it was not. Her child is now three years old. ” I Walked in there , it looked like they never cleaned the place?I would not let my dog have puppies in this place.”
One woman told reporters, ” He thinks things are sanitary and clean up there, it is not.”
Another, ” The building should be abandoned, he should not be able to perform any abortions there.”
The mother of another patient told reporters, ” I think, what if my daughter had died because of the conditions up there… I would like to see him brought down, so another parent would not have to go theough the nightmare that I have.”
The state Attorney General’s Office will review the records and determine the next course of action, if any is warranted.
“We have to do what’s right and investigate these allegations,” McCurtis said. “We are looking at everything in this investigation to see if he has violated state law or put patients’ health at risk.”
The state’s order accused Sethavarangura of negligence and incompetence it suggested the doctor showed “a lack of moral character.”
When asked about the allegations, the doctor said he was providing a needed service for the poor. “They will miss me,” Sethavarangura said about his patients.
Others in the community applauded the state’s efforts. “They did their job,” said Mike Dooley, who lives near the doctor’s old office building. “They were supposed to shut him down.”
The doctor said he has no plans to contest any of the 13 counts that led to the suspension of his medical license. State investigators said practicing without a valid medical license is a felony and could lead to prison time.
After Kevin Dietz’s story aired, we had many e-mails regarding people who were affected by abortion.
If something similiar has happened to you, or your or someone you love grappled with this decision, e-mail the News Station with your story at Abortionquestions@ClickOnDetroit.com
TO watch the Investigation – CLick Here
Additional Video:
Rescue 4 Undercover: Dr.P
http://www.clickondetroit.com/video/13720332/index.html
http://www.clickondetroit.com/video/13720332/index.html
http://www.clickondetroit.com/video/13720332/index.html
http://www.clickondetroit.com/video/13720332/index.html
7:52 AM – 1 Comments – 2 Kudos – Add
9 months is a very short time to have to live with a baby in one’s womb.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gee Paul, I’ve never spent any time with a baby in my womb. You?
(Actually, if you put a baby in a womb it would die. They’re not designed for that…)
Hey Midnite- are you on facebook?
Paul, I’m just trying to refute Laura’s points. Since pro-aborts tend to exaggerate when it suites them. I’m still interested in how PP bought land and built a facility for a mere $400,000 when the one in Aurora cost more than 7 million. I know construction costs went up in the last 6 years but that’s a little surprising. But I’m happy to eat crow if she can show me….
Paul…but what if the baby got adopted by *gasp* a GAY COUPLE??? Oh noes!!! Like HisMan said, a baby born starving that will only probably live to be maybe 3 is better off than a behbie with two mommies!!!
Pro aborts tend to exaggerate when it suits them………………….ya, NO KIDDING! “Women will all go back to the coat hanger.” Although there is not one documented case of this.
Bobby,
Yes I am on facebook… All the time it seems, or I am here :-)
Laura,
You really are childish. Are you trying to make the point that Paul is a man and therefore should have no opinion regarding abortion?
9 months IS a short time when compared to the average lifespan – and babies don’t even necessarily need that long!
Oh Erin, you too; are you on Facebook?
The cheerleading, high-fiving, etc. is an accurate maturity index for many proaborts…of any age. I clearly remember the 20th anniversary of Roe at one of our local chop shops; it was on a Saturday morning, the mill was open for killing and the parking lot was filled with condom balloons, party hats, and college kids waving sex toys in the faces of the protesters’ children, and middle-aged (and older) feminazi types doing equally nasty, disgusting things. They (the proaborts) had a grill going, and a cooler of drinks…God knows what(or who)they were cooking on that grill. Probably just some stuff they bought at the local grocery, but to them, it wouldn’t matter. They’d have grilled babies, if they could have gotten away with it, just to gloat over their continued slaughter of them.
And, of course, they had coathangers everywhere but in the closets where they belong.
Interestingly, I’ve never met a proabort yet who could name for me ONE woman who had died from a self-induced coathanger abortion, though I can produce names and dates of hundreds of women who have died from legal abortions since Roe. (One tried Gerri Santoro, but she died from an abortion induced by her boyfriend with borrowed medical instruments. He botched the abortion, panicked, and fled, leaving Santoro to bleed to death. Ce plus ca change ca plus la meme chose; most abortions are performed by men, and they still botch, panic, flee and pass the buck, only now they do it legally, and women still hemorrhage to death from induced abortions…legally.
No, noone undergoes surgery just for kicks; they generally do it as a last resort, to save them from something worse. Therapeutic surgery has risks, but it also has as it’s sole purpose the preservation, not the destruction, of human life. Abortion does not cure or treat any real known disease, and it always has a negative impact on a woman’s body and soul. It is a savage act of violence which deliberately destroys an innocent human life. It is not therapeutic surgery, and should not be compared to it.
Laura,
You really are childish. Are you trying to make the point that Paul is a man and therefore should have no opinion regarding abortion?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nah- Paul is entitled to his opinion on abortion, but considering that he has no clue what it’s like to gestate a full-term pregnancy, he really shouldn’t trivialize the physical aspects.
It is not therapeutic surgery, and should not be compared to it.
jtm:
I don’t remember anyone comparing an abortion to a therapeutic (elective) surgery.
Also, we’re Pro-Choice not pro-abort. KTHNX.
Do you want to be friends? Search for me under “Nicholas A Scoville”.
I’m on facebook- I hope you add me. Last name is Harvey.
I need to know what network y’all are in to search for you…
Paul is definitely NOT trivializing the physical aspects of pregnancy. I’ve been pregnant 7 times, miscarried once and had toxemia with 4 others. I hemorrhaged with my last one, so much so that my husband fainted. Doctors and nurses in a panic trying to help me. I think my husband has a pretty good idea about the physical aspects of pregnancy. Maybe the men you’ve been around just aren’t as compassionate as pro-life men. (Go figure.)
I’d still LOVE to have another. The nine months and delivery problems can’t compare with my kids smiles and songs, and even my 3 year old SCREAMING “I’m NOT happy!”
Yeah Midnite, and we’re PRO-LIFE, NOT anti-choice.
Paul is definitely NOT trivializing the physical aspects of pregnancy. I’ve been pregnant 7 times, miscarried once and had toxemia with 4 others. I hemorrhaged with my last one, so much so that my husband fainted. Doctors and nurses in a panic trying to help me.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You are a pro-choice poster child.
Why would anyone want to go through that?
You are a pro-choice poster child.
Why would anyone want to go through that?
Posted by: Laura at September 28, 2007 12:50 PM
Because being pregnant is the only chance I have to actively participate in a miracle. Who WOULDN’T want to go through that?
Kristen:
FYI, I’ve never called anyone “Anti-Life”, I call them Pro-Life, just as I should be called Pro-Choice.
Because being pregnant is the only chance I have to actively participate in a miracle. Who WOULDN’T want to go through that?
Posted by: Kristen at September 28, 2007 12:54 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A lot of biological processes are miracles. Respiration is a miracle. Digestion is a miracle.
I’d really like to avoid all of that hideous carnage you described…
I’m in the “Concord, NH” network. You can be friends with Jacqueline through me, I believe.
I’ve had similar things happen as Kristen. And I would still be happy about another pregnancy!
here you go folks,
10 oz baby! born at 25 weeks:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=484264&in_page_id=1811&ct=5&ico=Homepage&icl=TabModule&icc=picbox&ct=5
pro-aborts don’t mind these little babies being slaughtered…ah, those kind-hearted liberal Democrats…this baby should be able to be legally killed under their sick view.
Enigma, go ahead and trivialize abortion. Act as if it’s just surgery. But that changes nothing. I didn’t enjoy my root canal but I wasn’t weaping for days beforehand or contemplating suicide afterward.
midnite, did your surgeries kill anybody? Or were they actually performed for some legitimate medical purpose?
How people can compare abortion to a medical procedure boggles the mind. How can you do it? Because it’s done by a doctor? So is lethal injection. The guillotine was invented by a doctor. Did that make it a surgical tool?
Jasper: ah, those kind-hearted liberal Democrats
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Like THESE liberal Democrats?
The Roe Court:
Burger, C.J.(Nixon’69), Douglas (Roosevelt’39), Brennan (Eisenhower’56), Stewart (Eisenhower’58), White (Kennedy’62), Marshall (Johnson’67), Blackmun (Nixon’70), Powell (Nixon’71), Rehnquist (Nixon’71).
Now tack on the fact that in 1967 the most liberal abortion statutes in the country were signed into law by the Governor of California, Ronald Reagan
I went to the website Jill cited and read some responses on the blog. Many couldn’t believe how few pro abortion folks came to speak in Aurora and how few make the effort to get involved generally.
The following comment in particular really struck me.
” When my sister inlaw was 14 she became pregnant,
at that time California was testing abortion laws. We were living in LA and made arrangements for her. Every woman and all the doctors and nurses openly defied the law and eventually the law was changed. I really thought when the South Dakota was the battle ground last year she would be out there on the front line. I thought she knew how very very lucky she was to get a safe abortion. Apparently not, she didn’t see a reason to get out there. I don’t even think she bothered to vote one way or the other. It is OK she got the advantage of a group of very brave people, but not OK to make sure other women, even her own daughter have the same choice if they need it.
We aren’t going to destroy the Republic by enforcing the Constitution, we destroy it by inaction, by being fearful of the consequences.
by ghengismom on Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 02:52:46 PM PDT”
I had to feel for this woman who since she was fourteen and in need of help has been told how lucky she is that she didn’t have her baby. Maybe she is very pro abortion, I don’t know. I also don’t know how much real choice she had when she was 14. A 14 year old cannot legally consent to anything. Maybe her family tried everything they knew to convince her to keep her baby or give him or her for adoption but she was so determined to abort that her family relented and took her for an illegal abortion. Seems unlikely, but maybe. Perhaps it was her family that was so determined that she not have the baby. What we do know is that all these years after her own illegal abortion, she isn’t determined to make sure others have access to abortion.
Laura,
I’m refering to recent voting records at the NRTL.
White and Rehnquist voted against the legalized killing of unborn babies. The other seven were under Satan’s control.
I’ve had similar things happen as Kristen. And I would still be happy about another pregnancy!
Posted by: Milehimama at September 28, 2007 1:11 PM
Milehimama, PP tries to scare women into thinking that their pregnancy is destined to harm them. When I was told I had toximia with #2 the doctor actually said I should abort. That was the last time I saw that doctor! And I went on to have my son and 4 more healthy babies.
A friend of mine had a sister who was pregnant a few years ago. I went to high school with this friend and saw her infrequently. When I saw my friend at a get together I asked how the pregnant sister was doing. She told me that she had had an abortion because they found out the baby had Downs. I was appalled – I went to an all girl Catholic HS – but all the friends nodded their heads and said “Oh, yeah…” I thought I was in the twilight zone!
At the next get together (a little over a year later) I again asked how the sister was doing and my friend said she and her husband had gotten a divorce. They hadn’t lasted a year after the abortion, neither one could get over it.
I am a liberal democrat.
Nothing could be more liberal than the universal right to life from conception to natural death.
Nothing could be less liberal than taking away someone’s life just because you want to.
Erm…lots of high-school/college lovers or spouses break up after having babies, too.
Erm…lots of high-school/college lovers or spouses break up after having babies, too.
Posted by: Erin at September 28, 2007 1:56 PM
Yes, but my friend told me the reason was the abortion – as told to her by her sister.
BTW – that post was from me, forgot to put in my name….
Hippe,
how come virtually all liberal Democrats support abortion, some right up until birth, almost all liberal Democrats have a 0% rating from the National Right to Life:
Kennedy 0%
Clinton 0%
Kerry 0%
Biden 0%
Durbin 0%
Obama 0%
Dodd 0%
..the list goes on and on
http://www.capwiz.com/nrlc/scorecard/?chamber=S&session=110&x=7&y=17
Jasper: how come virtually all liberal Democrats support abortion, some right up until birth, almost all liberal Democrats have a 0% rating from the National Right to Life
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Actually, it’s no longer a big issue. Even the leading Republican candidate is pro-choice.
Survey: Abortion Not Top-Tier Issue in White House Race
By Audrey Barrick
Christian Post Reporter
Thu, Jun. 21 2007 03:57 PM ET
WASHINGTON
Kennedy 0%
Clinton 0%
Kerry 0%
Biden 0%
Durbin 0%
Obama 0%
Dodd 0%
That translates to 100% support in my book.
Liberal Democrats support abortion because it’s the right thing to do.
None of those Dems are from my state. There are definitely pro life dems. All were reelected. My Dem rep voted pro life. I don’t vote for any pro abortion candidates. This country needs more pro life candidates from all parties. I want to live in a country where ALL of the political parties are prolife and we can argue about something else. I think is important to work for change to more prolife tolerance within the Dem party. Then work to make prolife the majority in the Dem party. I think it is what our country needs. Please note only a majority of Republicans are prolife. There are pro abortion Republicans. And there are a few Republicans whose only redeeming quality is their prolife record.
The Democrats require a prochoice stand, it is part of their platform. Republicans don’t require a prolife stance.
Oh the irony!
From the STOPP webpage:
” Monrovia ended up buying the brand new abortion facility from PP in 2002 for over $800,000 and tore it down in April 2003 under the guise of redevelopment of the neighborhood. The PP abortion facility never opened, and no babies were killed there as a result!”
Posted by: Laura at September 28, 2007 10:58 AM
Hey Laura –
Any clarification on the $400,000 abortion facility in Monrovia? I’m still waiting to hear how they pulled that one off. If they bought the land and built the building for $400K I’d like that GC working on my next house!
The Democrats require a prochoice stand, it is part of their platform.
Posted by: Milehimama at September 28, 2007 2:31 PM
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That is just what needs to change by having folks within the party change it. Regardless of what you think on other issues, how great it will be when the Dems first go neutral on abortion and then go prolife. It happened with civil rights and will happen with human rights as soon as Dem voters make it happen.
I think is important to work for change to more prolife tolerance within the Dem party. Then work to make prolife the majority in the Dem party.
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I think it would be cool if the entire Democratic Party donned tights and performed “RIVERDANCE!”
Bet I get my wish before you do…
I think it would be cool if the entire Democratic Party donned tights and performed “RIVERDANCE!”
Bet I get my wish before you do…
Posted by: Laura at September 28, 2007 2:49 PM
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Who will actually work harder to make it happen, prolifers or Laura?
Good one hippie!
Laura, are you not seeing my posts or are you just avoiding the unpleasant line of questioning?
Laura, are you not seeing my posts or are you just avoiding the unpleasant line of questioning?
Posted by: Kristen at September 28, 2007 2:58 PM
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1) I told you I heard it on a local TV news story.
2) If you think I’m driving to Monrovia to pull permits, you’re out of your mind.
3) What freakin’ difference does the dollar amount make? There are still 2 abortion clinics in the immediate area, and Planned Parenthood was handsomely compensated.
I believe the late pro-life Pennsylvania governor, Democrat Robert Casey was denied the right to speak at a Democrat convention because of his pro-life stand. We heard nothing from the MSM has to how the Democrats should be a “big tent” and tolerate pro-lifers in their ranks, but the Republicans were told they should be a “big tent” and welcome pro-choicers in their ranks.
A rather interesting double standard.
Hey, YOU’RE the one that said PP got TWICE (emphasis YOURS) what they paid for the place. I’m just trying to figure out how you got to that number.
Your post said that ” Monrovia ended up buying the BRAND NEW ABORTION facility from PP in 2002 for over $800,000…” (emphasis mine.)
Look, if you can’t take the heat get out of the fire. Looks to me like PP took a HUGE loss on the deal. I didn’t ask you to pull permits but your story is OBVIOUSLY flawed so you shouldn’t go around posturing about how PP made out like a bandit.
Mary,
I believe the late pro-life Pennsylvania governor, Democrat Robert Casey was denied the right to speak at a Democrat convention because of his pro-life stand. We heard nothing from the MSM has to how the Democrats should be a “big tent” and tolerate pro-lifers in their ranks, but the Republicans were told they should be a “big tent” and welcome pro-choicers in their ranks.
A rather interesting double standard.
Posted by: Mary at September 28, 2007 3:09 PM
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Absolutely true and who better than Dem voters to demand change of this intolerance. I understand if you are not a Dem. It is a free country, I just feel that working against the pro aborts from within the party is good. Pointing out the problems is great, and doing something to fix them is a must.
No, genius, the STOPP web page said that it was OVER $800,000. The news story said that Planned Parenthood received twice what they paid for the place.
I didn’t broker the deal.
Why do you care?
From the STOPP webpage:
” Monrovia ended up buying the brand new abortion facility from PP in 2002 for over $800,000 and tore it down in April 2003 under the guise of redevelopment of the neighborhood. The PP abortion facility never opened, and no babies were killed there as a result!”
Hmmm, why does Chem class have to cut into my debate time on the internet??
Actually Laura, I am a genius. A bonafided member of Mensa. But that’s besides the point. Obviously the news in your area has issues if they are trying to make people believe that PP bought land and build a facility for $400K or so. So let’s say the OVER $800,000 was $899,999. That’s NO WHERE NEAR what they paid to build that building.
Laura, you’re cracking under the pressure of the truth. Maybe you should take a break…
Oh, honestly. Kristen, I’m a member of Mensa too. It doesn’t mean you’re a genius. It means you do well on IQ tests. That’s all.
“None of those Dems are from my state.”
can I ask what State you’re from Hippie?
“I think is important to work for change to more prolife tolerance within the Dem party. Then work to make prolife the majority in the Dem party.”
This is very hard hippie, the Democrats don’t even let pro-lifers speak at their conventions..(there’s maybe just 1 or 2 True pro-life democrats anyways) .
yes, the reason why abortion is legal in this country is mostly because of the Democrap party, they are always the road-block in getting meaningfull pro-life registration passed. They have an abysmal record.
I loved this bit of candor on the PP Aurora Blog: “Pretty_Inside_and_Out1” thinks “mastermind” Eric Sheilder [sic] is “so cute” and “wish[es] he were on our side!”
But he IS, Pretty, he is . . .
True Laura, it doesn’t mean YOUR a genius. You can’t debate your way out of a paper bag…
So let’s say the OVER $800,000 was $899,999.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Let’s say that OVER $800,000 was 170 trillion dollars. Then Planned Parenthood REALLY made out like bandits.
True Laura, it doesn’t mean YOUR a genius.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Your?
Now Laura, you’re grasping at straws. I’m sure if that was the case PP would STILL be shouting from the rooftops about it.
If someone buys something for $101.00 they don’t say “I paid OVER $10.00 for it!” But you already know that. It’s funny how pro-aborts, sorry PRO-CHOICEers twist facts and numbers so lightly.
You really should plan your arguments better. Or better yet, save us all the trouble and stop talking.
True Laura, it doesn’t mean YOUR a genius.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Your?
Posted by: Laura at September 28, 2007 3:58 PM
Yep, I made a typo. YOU made a ridculous statement that you now can’t back up. Now you’re upset. Like I said, if you can’t take the heat…
Oh, honestly. Kristen, I’m a member of Mensa too. It doesn’t mean you’re a genius. It means you do well on IQ tests. That’s all.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The day I passed my MENSA qualifying test I informed my father that he had to address me as “Laura Anne, Girl Genius” from that point on.
Then I stepped into his truck, backed over a half-barrel planter, tore off the muffler, sprang out of the cab and promptly fell over a sprinkler and broke my wrist.
My Dad called me “Girl Genius” for the rest of the day…
Only the one day? I’d think that would require at LEAST a week.
Hate to interrupt your engaging conversation, but this one’s for Laura since she comes across so, um, steadfast for choice:
Heather has mentioned the video “Choice Blues” for some time and I finally took a moment to view it. I couldn’t even finish it. Had to click out maybe after one minute.
Now Laura, have you watched it? If so, isn’t it a great choice to be dismembered like that?
If not, ain’t nothng stopping ya.
Though I’m pointing at Laura, the other pro-choicers would do well to give it a moment on their computer screens.
*gag* Cheers for Choice! *clinking of champagne glass*
This is in response to Jill’s post about the “spirited” PP pro-abort supporters.
I was at the town council mtg last Tuesday. I got there just before 5pm and saw a pretty equal mix of pro-lifers and pepto-bismol pink shirted screamers. I also saw PP’s fearless leader, Steve Trombley standing across the street from the pepto-bismol people clapping them on, waving his arms and trying to keep them going.
Steve Trombley, the Aurora PP’s fearless leader…or is he fearful?
Trombley hasn’t been upstairs in the room with the PP’ers at the last 2 town council mtgs. I can’t speak for the 1st one since I missed that one. Is he afraid of facing the Aurora and surrounding community concerned citizens? All he does is get his PP employees yelling “WooHoo” outside in front of city hall where they can be seen not only by the passing cars, but also by the media. Their battlecry of “WooHoo” sounds more like the sounds I hear at amusement parks as people are riding roller coasters and thrill rides. Maybe this is all that is to these people…amusement. It is thrilling to wear their pink pepto-bismol shirts (including a small toddler who sadley,was wearing one)and yell out things like “I’m proud of my abortion.” It is interesting that once the media disappears, so do most of the PP Pink shirted supporters.
A huge bunch of them left after the 10 minute break. I was one of the last people who exited the building. There were no more PP pink shirts, but about 10 pro-lifers still holding their signs. Just my observation…
wow. Maybe it’s a good thing I was not around for this conversation…
JTM,
“Therapeutic surgery has risks, but it also has as it’s sole purpose the preservation, not the destruction, of human life.”
Abortion does not destroy human life. It destroys potential human life.
“Abortion does not cure or treat any real known disease, and it always has a negative impact on a woman’s body and soul.”
Surgery isn’t always used to treat/cure disease. It has other uses as well. It can be used to set bones and to restore a human body to its previous state. Abortion does the same.
Abortion does not always have a negative impact on the woman’s body or on her psyche. Some woman regret their abortions. Some women also regret getting married. Does that mean that marriage should be outlawed?
__________________________________________________
Christine,
“Enigma, go ahead and trivialize abortion.”
I’m not.
“Act as if it’s just surgery.”
Actually, I don’t. If you’ve read previous posts I recognize that abortion is a terrible choice.
“I wasn’t weaping for days beforehand or contemplating suicide afterward.”
And abortion does not always result in this. As a matter of fact, childbirth can result in this. Should we outlaw childbirth as well?
“How people can compare abortion to a medical procedure boggles the mind. How can you do it?”
Quite easily actually. It’s a surgery that a woman elects to have performed because she does not want to be pregnant. She has surgery because she wants to restore her body to its pre-pregnant state.
“Christina,
“promoting something that even most prochoicers admit that women don’t really want in the first place.”
No one wants to have surgery. Surgery is a terrifying thing that carries substantial risk, regardless of what procedure is actually being preformed. Simply because one would prefer not to be in the situation where surgery is necessary in the first place does not mean that the surgery itself is unnecessary or wrong.”
———————————————-
Christina was referring to abortion; Enigma segued from abortion to surgery, that is where they seemed to be equated/compared.
“Choose” is a transitive verb; choose WHAT? Choose to ABORT. Choice is neutral, in itself, murder is not. That is why I say proabort instead of prochoice. Also, the baby, the one with the most at stake in the matter, doesn’t get a choice, and most women are, to some degree, coerced, manipulated, or otherwise frightened into getting abortions. I’ve had some say, “I had to do it”; we can debate the imperative, but what isn’t debatable is that something you “have” to do isn’t much of a choice. No, “prochoice” is easier to say than pro-baby slaughter, and demonstrably less true.
Jasper,
you wrote regarding prolife progress:
“This is very hard hippie, the Democrats don’t even let pro-lifers speak at their conventions.”
““““““““
Well, yes, most things worth doing are difficult. It is still worth the effort. If it isn’t your thing, fine.
When I was in college my poli-sci teacher said in a particular campaign the nurses union contributed to one party and endorsed it, while the doctors union contributed to both candidates. The candidate the nurses endorsed lost, too bad for them, but the doctors union still had some pull.
Think outside the bun.
The only men that PC women like are the men who back them on their irresponsible decisions to abort.
September 28, 2007 – Friday
Abortion Death Reported in Massachusetts
Category: News and Politics
Abortion Death Reported in Massachusetts
HYANNIS, Mass., Sept. 27 /Christian Newswire/ — Reports are coming out of Massachusetts that a 22-year old woman died on September 13, 2007, from hemorrhaging caused by an abortion obtained at Women Health Center in the Cape Cod town of Hyannis. The abortionist responsible for the death is reportedly Rapin Osathanondh, who made headlines in 2001 for threatening to murder five hospital nurses in a fit of rage over misplaced paperwork.
A receptionist at Women Health Center responded in to inquiries about the woman’s death with obvious agitation, but would not confirm or deny the abortion death. “I can’t help you,” she told Operation Rescue.
The abortion victim, whose name Operation Rescue is currently withholding, was reportedly a member of a Calvary Chapel church in a nearby town. According to her MySpace page, she was a cosmetologist who was born in Honduras and adopted by an American family. She was engaged to be married.
A complaint has been filed against Osathanondh with the Massachusetts Board of Registration In Medicine regarding the abortion death.
“Our nation is facing a crisis of dangerous abortionists operating in unsafe abortion mills, killing innocent babies – sometimes illegally as we have seen in some states – and injuring and killing unsuspecting women. More must be done to stop these predatory abortion businesses from inflicting additional human tragedy on society,” said Operation Rescue spokesperson Cheryl Sullenger.
“This death also brings to light a serious problem in the Christian community,” said Sullenger. “There simply is not adequate teaching from the pulpits about abortion, and therefore Christians are aborting their babies at a shocking rate. According to some statistics, 68% of women obtaining abortions attend some denomination of Christian church. This shows a shameful failure on the part of American pastors to properly teach their congregations what the Bible says about human sexuality and the sanctity of life. Yet, the majority of pastors who are approached about this problem refuse to deal with it. This denial and refusal to properly pastor their congregations on this matter makes them culpable for these kinds of avoidable tragedies.”
2:32 PM – 0 Comments – 0 Kudos – Add Comment
That was me.
yes, let’s keep this legal. That’s a smart thing to do.
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Woman Sues Planned Parenthood After Botched Abortion Requires Hysterectomy
by Steven Ertelt
LifeNews.com Editor
March 22, 2004
Billings, MT (LifeNews.com) — A woman who required a hysterectomy following a botched abortion is suing a Montana Planned Parenthood and the abortion practitioner she never met who perforated her uterus.
Lorraine Thul went to Intermountain Planned Parenthood in Billings, Montana in May 2002 for an abortion supposedly needed because of complications associated with her pregnancy.
Thul says she never spoke with abortion practitioner David Healow before the abortion procedure started and he never inquired about the complications or similar ones Thul had in a prior pregnancy.
Thul’s attorney John Doubek told LifeNews.com that she is quite upset about the abortion and felt pressured to have it. If she had it to do all over again, she wouldn’t have had the abortion, Doubek said.
During the abortion, Thul says a nurse told Healow he was being “overzealous.” After it was complete, Thul was released from the abortion business and went to a local hotel where she was staying. She was told to return two days later for a follow-up, according to the lawsuit.
But Thul says she was in intense pain following the abortion and by that evening and, according to the suit, had “tremendous cramping and bloating.” The plain and bleeding were so severe she called Planned Parenthood for help.
Late that evening, a staff member at the abortion business performed an ultrasound on Thul and then notified Healow.
“They nicked her uterus and sent her home bleeding and then scratched their heads when she returned,” Doubek said.
Healow informed Thul that the abortion perforated her uterus and that he did not tell her about it because he thought the tear was superficial.
Fifteen minutes later, Healow called a local hospital’s emergency room. At Deaconess Billings Clinic, Thul underwent emergency surgery to repair the damage the abortion caused.
Doubek says doctors at the hospital had to makes ure the bleeding was stopped and allow the uterus to heal for a time to determine if it could be saved.
However, Thul required subsequent surgery, where doctors performed a hysterectomy because the uterus was not healing properly.
A media representative of Deaconess Billings Clinic couldn’t provide further details on Thul’s operations citing patient confidentiality.
According to the lawsuit, Thul says Healow failed to follow proper medical protocol by failing to inform her of the risks associated with the abortion procedure. Thul also says Healow should have told her that he is an anesthesiologist and not a surgeon.
“In any surgery there has to be informed consent — here is what we’re going to do and here are the complications associated with the procedure — so their consent is a fully informed one,” Doubek explained. “The surgeon should let her know who he is and what he is about.”
In the mid 1990s, the Montana legislature put an informed consent law for abortion on the books, but it was struck down by the Montana Supreme Court. The high court said the law was unconstitutional because it violated a privacy provision in the state constitution.
Doubek told LifeNews.com that Thul never would have had the abortion had she known Healow was not a qualified surgeon. He said someone who doesn’t have proper experience and training shouldn’t be performing abortions.
Any abortion practitioner “ought to be familiar enough with the anatomy to not cut the uterus.”
Stacy James, CEO of Intermountain Planned Parenthood, told LifeNews.com that the abortion business had been served with the lawsuit but that she would not comment because it is a “pending legal matter.”
Thul is seeking damages for pain and suffering, $50,000 to cover current medical expenses and money to cover future medical bills.
sorry for the double post. please run PP/botched abortions through your search engine. The stories are endless!!
Abortion-related fatalities are really very rare.
If you REALLY cared about saving lives, you’d be out picketing the FAT-SUCKERS OF DEATH!
Deaths From Liposuction Too High, Study Shows
WebMD Medical NewsJan. 21, 2000 (Atlanta) — New techniques have made liposuction a more attractive cosmetic procedure, both for physicians and for patients. But a new survey concludes that there is still an unacceptable death rate following the surgery.
The study, which appears in the latest issue of Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery, showed a death rate of about 20 in every 100,000 patients who underwent liposuction between 1994 and 1998. The authors point out that this number is higher than the death rate for motor vehicle accidents in the United States. But it’s a dramatic improvement from what most would consider the “bad old days” of liposuction — the 1970s — when death rates were eight times higher.
However, a statement released by the American Society for Aesthetic Plastic Surgery (ASAPS) offers some explanations for the study’s findings. According to the statement, the ASAPS assembled a task force of plastic surgeons who attempted to uncover the reasons behind the increasing reports of liposuction deaths and complications. The group determined that the main factors increasing the risks of liposuction are poor patient health, excessive fat removal, using too much fluid and local anesthesia during the procedure, and performing multiple procedures during the same surgical session.
“As a result of the task force’s investigation and recommendations, many plastic surgeons have altered their approach to [liposuction]. Consequently, since about 1998, we have seen the rate of serious complications plummet,” ASAPS president Fritz E. Barton Jr., MD, is quoted as saying in the statement.
Still, one of the authors says there’s reason for concern. “Liposuction has become trivialized, really,” Rudolph H. de Jong, MD, from Thomas Jefferson Medical College in Philadelphia, tells WebMD. “It’s a far more major procedure than it appears on the surface. The article was published as a way to warn the medical community. … [T]his serves as a precautionary yellow traffic light.”
Other plastic surgeons contacted by WebMD agree with the ‘yellow light’ symbolism, but they say it mainly applies in this respect: Be careful about what you read into the study.
“This data is nowhere near being valid,” says Rod J. Rohrich, MD, professor and chairman of the department of plastic surgery at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas, who says that recent studies have put the liposuction death rate much lower than this one. “This is one study. Obviously, it caught all of our attention, but I don’t think some of the data is necessarily valid because of how it was collected.”
Rohrich is referring to the “census survey” method used in the study, in which more than 1,200 board-certified plastic surgeons were sent one-page questionnaires — twice — asking whether they knew of, or had experience with, deaths from liposuction procedures. More than 900 physicians responded, giving the authors a death count of 130.
“I don’t think I would be very confident hanging my hat on those numbers,” says Walter Erhardt, MD, president-elect of the American Society of Plastic Surgeons and a practitioner in Albany, Ga. “I think there is a great concern for the duplication of numbers. Plastic surgery is a relatively small community. When things happen, word does get around. So I do see a tremendous tendency for duplication.”
But de Jong says that’s not likely the case — and that, if anything, the survey turned up a best-case scenario with liposuction deaths, given that it only queried the ‘cream of the crop’ of those doing the procedure, and not those with minimal training and experience. “Let’s face it,” he says, “When we got these numbers back, we didn’t believe them ourselves. It’s an elective procedure. It’s reputedly safe. It came as a great surprise.”
Perhaps even more of a surprise is that the death rate has actually gone up in the past 13 years, according to de Jong, despite the introduction of new, less drastic surgical techniques. He says that may not be coincidental — which seems odd, considering what “having liposuction done” used to mean.
Now, instead of having the fat literally carved from the body, patients can have it sucked out through a small tube — while lying awake in a doctor’s office. The procedure, known as “tumescent liposuction,” uses two drugs: lidocaine (to kill the pain) and epinephrine (to stop the bleeding). De Jong thinks the apparent increase in liposuction deaths may have something to do with the lidocaine — the drug can be extremely toxic to the heart — although he has no data to support his hypothesis.
Even if they don’t agree with its conclusions, critics of the study say it has served a good purpose: to remind patients and physicians alike that liposuction, minor as it looks these days, is nonetheless surgery.
“There are some studies that indicate this is a very safe procedure,” says Erhardt. “But it has been around for 18 years, and there is some tendency for us to forget the surgical reality. … This is not popping in to get the hair done. This is surgery. Patients have to respect that.”
Along those lines, Erhardt says that patients ought to be very careful about who they choose for a surgeon. “Stay away from the hucksterism,” he advises. “Unfortunately, patients aren’t as careful about choosing their cosmetic surgeon as they are about choosing where to buy a new car or get their hair done.”
And patients have to be reasonable about expectations. “It’s very easy to blame the surgeon or doctor” when something goes wrong, de Jong says. “But I think the patient — the consumer — has to accept some of the blame, too. Because a lot of people, obese people, come in basically to lose their girth. They don’t just want a little bit out, they want a lot out. And that’s a problem.”
Rohrich seconds that notion. “The most important point is: Liposuction is for healthy people only,” he says. “It is not a cure for obesity. It is absolutely contraindicated. In obesity, you don’t need liposuction; you need diet, exercise, and lifestyle changes.”
Erhardt, de Jong, and Rohrich agree that there needs to be more research to make liposuction as safe as possible.
Botched plastic surgeries are exposed. Botched abortions are not.
Woman Wins Botched Abortion Lawsuit vs. Planned Parenthood
Source: San Francisco Examiner; February 24, 2001
San Francisco, CA — A woman who remained pregnant following a botched
abortion three years ago has been awarded $672,610 from Planned
Parenthood. As the court clerk read the jury’s award Wednesday, the woman,
whose unborn child lost two limbs in the abortion attempt before being
aborted months later, lowered her head and wept, convinced her three-year
court battle was finally over.
And it is, but only for now. An attorney for Planned Parenthood Golden
Gate, which oversees nine abortion facilities in the Bay Area, vowed to
appeal the award. “It’s definitely going to be appealed,” Lynn Stocker
said Thursday.
But for the time being, the case is finished.
“I feel that there is justice after all,” the 28-year-old woman said
following the decision Wednesday. (The woman, is referred to only as
“J.B.” in court records.)
The three-week trial dealt only with how much J.B. was owed for her pain,
not whether Planned Parenthood was liable. San Francisco Superior Court
Judge Douglas Munson ordered the pro-abortion organization be held
responsible for its failure to turn over critical medical documents to
J.B. and her lawyer.
Stocker said she would not comment on why Planned Parenthood refused to
turn over the documents, saying only that the organization felt they were
“irrelevant” to the woman’s case. But J.B. said the documents — which
include internal Planned Parenthood procedures and her medical records —
must have contained something the pro-abortion organization didn’t want
her to see.
“If someone is covering up the evidence, it’s obvious they have something
to hide,” J.B. said. “Why would you wash your hands if they weren’t
bloody?”
The woman, a Yugoslav immigrant, described her experience in her testimony
and in the original lawsuit.
In October 1997, she discovered she was pregnant and went to Planned
Parenthood. But the “care” she received at the abortion facility was less
than ideal, said her lawyer, Chris Dolan. The first-trimester abortion
J.B. sought went awry.
Medical experts testified that J.B. was probably pregnant with twins. But
the abortion she underwent in December 1997 only fully aborted one child.
Though she was told the abortion was complete, J.B. said, she still felt
pregnant two weeks later in a follow-up exam, and called several times for
advice. Each time, she was told that her symptoms were normal.
But on Feb. 18, 1998, J.B. demanded a urine test. The same nurse who had
long assured her nothing was wrong came back horrified. J.B. was still
pregnant, her lawyer said.
She had been carrying the unborn child for nearly six months. The Planned
Parenthood facility does not do abortions late in the second trimester, so
she was given an apology, a list of places who would do abortions in the
second trimester, and shooed out the door, Dolan said.
Though Planned Parenthood did relent and pay for the second abortion, J.B.
was emotionally traumatized, something that would only get worse.
An ultrasound at a Buena Vista, California abortion facility revealed the
remaining unborn child had only one arm and one leg. “She sees the
ultrasound, and has an emotional collapse,” Dolan said. “She has to go
through a three-day procedure to terminate the fetus’ life, something that
absolutely wrecks her.”
Since that abortion, Dolan said, his client has been haunted by visions of
babies being killed, has contemplated suicide, and cries uncontrollably at
the sight of young children — particularly twins.
“She is like a shattered human being,” said the attorney, adding that J.B.
has been diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder. “She has been
unable to be in a relationship since this happened. She can’t get in close
proximity to a man without shaking and, sometimes, vomiting.”
The trial began Feb. 2, and the jury returned its verdict after two days
of deliberations. They awarded her $650,000 for mental anguish, $1,870 in
past medical costs, $14,500 for future psychiatric expenses and $6,240 in
lost earnings.
“I think deciding the economic damages were fairly easy,” said Paula
Brown, who served as the jury’s forewoman. “But the non-economic part was
more difficult. It’s not really easy to put a dollar amount on someone’s
life.” In the end, however, Brown said the jury went with Dolan’s
recommendation, finding it was fair.
Fair or not, the award will be reduced, due to a 1975 California law that
limits non-economic damages in medical malpractice cases to $250,000.
Though upheld by the courts on several occasions, the cap has never been
increased. Brown, surprised by this, said the law bordered on the
ridiculous. “If it’s our judgment it’s our judgment,” she said. “The 12
people in that room fought for that verdict.”
Another juror, Isobel Jones, who appeared on the edge of tears as she
discussed the case, said the trial was emotionally wrenching. Jones, a
corporate lawyer who is herself 28 weeks pregnant, wonders why she was
picked for the case at all.
“I don’t know how I did it, but I was told by the judge to be fair, and by
God I did it,” she said.
—
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information. To subscribe, send the message “subscribe” to:
infonet-request@prolifeinfo.org. Infonet is sponsored by Women and
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Woman Taken To Hospital Following Botched Abortion, Possibly Dead
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by Steven Ertelt
LifeNews.com Editor
February 17, 2005
Wichita, KS (LifeNews.com) — A woman was taken from a Kansas abortion facility to a local hospital Thursday after an apparent botched abortion. The incident comes just weeks after another woman apparently died after another botched abortion at the same abortion business.
An ambulance carried the unidentified woman on Thursday from Women’s Health Care Services, the abortion business owned by late-term abortion practitioner George Tiller, to the Wesley Medical Center Emergency Room.
Members of a local pro-life organization took pictures of the scene and saw the woman being unloaded from the ambulance.
They described her as not moving and there were no IV bags or other medical supplies which would normally indicate a patient was being cared for on the way to the hospital. In addition, the woman was covered with a blanket and her body was strapped in three places to the gurney.
Cheryl Sullenger witnessed the incident and said she believes she spotted LeRoy Carhart in a passenger vehicle driving to the hospital with an abortion facility staffer.
Carhart is a Nebraska late-term abortion practitioner who has received nationwide attention for his Supreme Court case overturning a ban on partial-birth abortions.
After the incident, Adam McArthur, a member of Operation Rescue, contacted the Sedgwick County Emergency Communications Office and director Diane Gage denied his open records request for copies of the transcripts of the call between employees at the abortion facility and 911.
Gee, I thought abortions were safe………
Hate to interrupt your engaging conversation, but this one’s for Laura since she comes across so, um, steadfast for choice:
Heather has mentioned the video “Choice Blues” for some time and I finally took a moment to view it. I couldn’t even finish it. Had to click out maybe after one minute.
Now Laura, have you watched it? If so, isn’t it a great choice to be dismembered like that?
If not, ain’t nothng stopping ya.
Though I’m pointing at Laura, the other pro-choicers would do well to give it a moment on their computer screens.
*gag* Cheers for Choice! *clinking of champagne glass*
Posted by: carder at September 28, 2007 4:17 PM
………………………………………….
carder you have been watching PL porn. During the time frame of the vast majority of abortions, there no members to dis. One would have to put the embryo under a microscope to ascerain this of course. You have bought into the fantasy that women wait 8 months to have abortions. It simply is a non issue. You are freaking over wanted pregnancies that have gone wrong. Most PL are at least compasionate enough towards women to understand that carrying a dead or soon to be dead fetus to term is dangerous to her health and her future ability to gestate.
ou are a pro-choice poster child.
Why would anyone want to go through that?
Posted by: Laura at September 28, 2007 12:50 PM
Because being pregnant is the only chance I have to actively participate in a miracle. Who WOULDN’T want to go through that?
Posted by: Kristen at September 28, 2007 12:54 PM
……………………………
Miracle? And you are a MENSA member? Yikes. Great grandma was miracled to death. Died attempting to give birth to her 14th. Miracle? Oh please. Pregnant women are a dime a dozen.
Sally, I DARE you to watch The Choice Blues. I’ll bet you will get sick! What a sickening thing you did to your unborn child. You are a disturbed, self absorbed, selfish woman!!
Sally, you are confused, as usual.
Perhaps in a different direction, but there was something that struck me about the chant the PP crowd was chanting; something like “Healthcare for all women.” Do these people really believe there is a lack of healthcare for women in Aurora ?
I found on Planned Parenthood’s website (ironically) information that led me on to illlinoishealthywoman.com. It is a program available for low income women between the ages of 19 and 44 that covers contraception cost and well-woman care. You can get these services from your local doctor. So why on earth is this thing even needed in Aurora ? And how naive are these women ?
I personally believe PP is using the same tactics as big-box retailers to get low-income women dependent upon them when they don’t need to be.
In addition, I’ve also at least *heard* that PP is not free. They have fee schedules, and the fees I saw on some fee schedules from PA, AZ PP sites were about the same as my wife’s OB in DG.
So where is the free healthcare for all that can’t already be gotten elsewhere ?
I think all Naperville and Aurora residents (and others) should feel insulted that Planned Parenthood thought that the women in these communities needed to be “rescued” because their reproductive rights were in danger.
The only men that PC women like are the men who back them on their irresponsible decisions to abort.
Posted by: heather at September 28, 2007 6:03 PM
“““““““““
Not true, Heather.
Many PC women are only vaguely so. They are likely as not to like, date and marry men who lean prolife and vote prolife. Over time they wise up to the injustice of abortion and go PL themselves.
Just think of all the great qualities of prolife guys, like responsible, disciplined, loving, not afraid to commit or sacrifice for others. Plenty of women find that rather attractive compared to someone who expects a woman to ” choose what she wants to do about it ” should something happen.
Just think of all the great qualities of prolife guys, like responsible, disciplined, loving, not afraid to commit or sacrifice for others.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
…And what do pro-life activists Gary Heavin, Neal Horsley, Randall Terry and Eric Rudolph have in common?
They are all “deadbeat dads.”
soon to be dead fetus
Sally, wouldn’t that make them ALIVE?
Jesus.
I get so tired of old rhetoric. ‘Well DEMOCRATS are this and that, and nothing will ever change, and the REPUBLICANS are soooo much better that we will never come to an understanding, and blah blah blah.”
Well maybe more pro-life Democrats would actually get support if this standard ceases to exist. How about, ‘Well right now the Democratic party has some problems, but all prolifers should really band together and promote platforms that satisfy both the liberal and conservative constituents of our country.”
Sometimes it’s too much to ask to not be a victim of ridiculous stereotypes. I feel like I point this out constantly but nobody ever seems to care. Well maybe that contributes to the great divide of political parties that should be able to get along. Harping on liberal pro-lifers, who wants to protect the lives and quality of life from the unborn and beyond, really makes prolifers seem much more close-minded than they really are and just alienates people.
I myself felt the need to separate myself from the Church, because I didn’t want to risk hating God because I was frusterated with political nature of what we are now.
Sorry I only had to read a little bit in to be saddened, because all it does is alienate our own kind and turn otherwise pro-life leaning liberals away from the pro-life philosophy.
Hippy has the right idea. Working to change within a party is at least doing something; whining about those horrible hateful anti-life liberals is not helping at all!!
Hippie, my point was that the PC woman tells the PL male to “Shut up, because you don’t have a uterus.” Well, neither does the PC man, yet they are always welcomed with open arms. Sooooo special!
the PC woman tells the PL male to “Shut up, because you don’t have a uterus.” Well, neither does the PC man, yet they are always welcomed with open arms. Sooooo special!
Heather, there is a difference. I know you don’t like abortion, but to a large extent pro-choice men want to leave women alone here, and pro-life men want freedom taken away from them, and that makes one heck of a difference to lots of people.
Doug
I loved this bit of candor on the PP Aurora Blog: “Pretty_Inside_and_Out1” thinks “mastermind” Eric Sheilder [sic] is “so cute” and “wish[es] he were on our side!”
But he IS, Pretty, he is . . .
Posted by: The Raving Atheist at September 28, 2007 3:32 PM
Actually I think she’s talking about Jeff (she says the one in the polo shirt) and he is cute. He’s the guy that does the videos Jill shows.
PIP,
who harps on liberal pro-lifers? not me. this is something to bring up with your Democrat Party. We are not going to comprimise with pro-aborts just for the sake of getting along. Barbara Boxer (sen. california) recently proposed a bill (freedom of choice act) that would make abortion legal through all 9 months of pregancy.
we are not close-minded, the Democrat party is.
Take it up with them. and stop blaming fellow pro-lifers for YOUR Democrat party’s cruel position on protecting human life.
who harps on liberal pro-lifers? not me. this is something to bring up with your Democrat Party. We are not going to comprimise with pro-aborts just for the sake of getting along. Barbara Boxer (sen. california) recently proposed a bill (freedom of choice act) that would make abortion legal through all 9 months of pregancy.
Jasper, in reading through the bill, I don’t see anything that different. It wouldn’t “make abortion legal through all 9 months of pregnancy” any more than it is now.
Doug
But jasper, you aren’t getting my point. Saying things like “we are not close-minded, the Democrat party is,” is only creating a divisive liberal v conservative, party v party atmosphere. When you make mass generalizations like that it disregards how diverse each group is in its ideology. I know a republican homosexual who is mainly just liberal on that issue. I know many many people who are socially and economically liberal, but stand by their principles on life issues (I admit though I have a biased demographic here- at a Catholic campus you meet plenty of people like that–although the college repubs get about twice the funding of college dems, but I won’t get into that).
When hippie and I say, “we realize a majority of democrats are pro-choice, but we want to change it so that pro-life is compatible with liberal ideology” we are basically saying “this shouldn’t become a liberal v conservative issue but one that we can unite together, even across party lines, to bring out these changes.”
When conversations and speeches about life issues turn into religious or conservative rallies, and when you hear “stupid, typical liberal” banter I wouldn’t say it is helping our cause in any way. It sounds like you want to pit people against each other.
We don’t have to compromise our value systems to want to unite parties on certain issues. When you act like you have to, what do you think you are accomplishing? Do you think you win hearts and minds like that?
Nope, you don’t. I can tell just reading this blog. What helped me change my mind in the first place was arguing this issue without the blantantly religious reasons, and finding groups who have the same goals in mind as most liberals and being able to relate the two together ( I like the Democrats for Life page, in which they state they want to protect life and the quality of life, not only from conception to birth, but beyond all the way until death.)
So in conclusion, saying “damn that Democratic Party” does a disservice to the pro-life movement. Try saying, “I have problems with this (insert political party here) PC candidate” instead. We can criticize politicians all we want, heck that is our job; however attacking an entire party is ignoring the incredible diversity that both parties hold!
Thought I should address this:
“who harps on liberal pro-lifers? not me.”
Uh??
When I pointed out that a PC Democratic candidate can still be elected, you belittled my statment and the people in question, going ‘ooooh only one or two, that’s nothing.’ When I try to say, ‘yes we are slowly gaining headway’ all you do is start tirades on how all the Democratic party stands for is compromised values (which is a hypocritical statement in its own right–but thats another story). When I say, ‘Yes, but we pro-life democrats want to stand up for all life, including those of criminals’ you say ‘well its totally different because of the amount of people involved.’ When I say, ‘it is an injustice either way, no matter how many people are killed’ you attack me personally and say I care more about one issue than the other. I am not sure why you don’t see how much that statement is untrue.
Sure, you’ve never attacked a liberal pro-lifer…
*PL sorry I didn’t catch that
How does one explain why the oldest political party, which claimed to be the voice of the voiceless and downtrodden, has become nothing more than the pawn of satan, his pride and joy. Is there anyone more voiceless than unborn babies? The American people have been duped by the Democratic Party.
How else can one explain why Clinton and Gore, early in their political careers, were pro-life, but now don’t even care if babies are killed when they are 3/4 born and suffer severe pain in the process? They found out that being pro-life was not conducive to climbing the Democratic political ladder, which requires a litmus test: to be an supporter of legal abortions, so they sold out, to who else but satan.
The late Democratic governor of Pennsylvania, Robert Casey, who was a great supporter of economic and racial justice, in 1992, during his second term, was refused permission to address the Democratic National Convention, because he was pro-life and would have spoken out against abortions. The killing of unborn and 3/4 born babies are a cornerstone of the Democratic Party’s platform.
Clinton then decided to make satan even happier, by committing one of the most diabolical and repugnant acts imaginable. He vetoed the ban on the NEVER needed late term barbaric partial-birth aborion, in order to pay back his big money contributors: Planned Parenthood, the Hollywood Filth Industry, NARAL, militant feminists, homosexuals and all other people, who have no sense of common decency. Thus, thousands of viable babies were murdured every year, under the guise of an abortion, in one of the most gruesome manners, and suffer excruciating pain in the process, all for money and votes.
The loudest and most prolonged applause that Al Gore received at the Democratic convention in 2000 was after he said, “and let there be no doubt that I will protect and defend a woman’s right to choose.” [to kill her unborn child].
I thought that I was transported back in time to the coliseum in Rome, when the people cheered when Christians were torn apart by lions. Only now, God’s most precious children are being torn apart by licensed professionals under the guise of an abortion and backed by the Democratic Party.
Who are these people, who go by the name of Democrats and who applauded, yelled and cheered for about five minutes, at the exclamation that human beings are to be put to death? Are they all a bunch of atheists? Do they belong to some kind of a satanic cult? Surely they do not believe there is a God, Sho said, “Thou Shalt Not Kill,” and “before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart.”
Alright jasper I feel like you haven’t listened to me and don’t really care to but would rather cling to your fragile stereotypical idea of what the opposite political party is and should be. This portion of “Kate tries to broaden the perspective” is over.
I think we should bring back the Whigs. What was their platform again?
LOL
JTM,
My point in comparing surgery and abortion is that most forms of abortion are performed using surgical means. Thus, abortion is surgery. One can argue that abortion is murder and so on, but one cannot deny that abortion is surgery. Since one cannot deny that abortion is surgery, stating that most women who seek abortions don’t want them is not a good argument for why abortion is immoral and should be illegal. Most people don’t want to have surgery, and since most forms of abortion are surgery, it logically follows that women won’t want to have a surgical abortion because it is surgery.
Kate,
This is not an stereotypical idea. You can’t close your eyes to the Truth any longer.
So in conclusion, saying “damn that Democratic Party” does a disservice to the pro-life movement. Try saying, “I have problems with this (insert political party here) PC candidate” instead.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Please,
You could smell the blood in the water in 2006 when pro-life Democrat James Webb unseated fetus-freak Republican Rick Santorum.
Abortion is the top issue to less than 1% of all voters, and doesn’t even make the list of top-10 issues for voters overall.
You can’t win by being anti-choice, but you sure can lose that way.
Why do you think that NONE of the Republican top-tier candidates showed up for the World Net Daily “Values Debate?” “Values Voters” don’t count anymore…
@PiP: Don’t bother trying to tell Jasper anything. He’s hopeless.
Just so you know…I support and agree with everything you’ve said. :)
Thanks, Rae :)
“Why do you think that NONE of the Republican top-tier candidates showed up for the World Net Daily “Values Debate?” “Values Voters” don’t count anymore…”
I somewhat agree with this statement (to a point.)
It’s true that some topics are more popular than others, and election voters tend to focus on what they feel is the most pressing issue at hand, and this year that entails things like the war and national security. Health care is a big one for me, too.
However, our discussion here is limited to the pro-life movement. We prolifers think it is a pressing issue, so it is important to us. And let us not forget that moral voters can REALLY sway elections. How did Bush win? By grabbing the religious demographic and making political moves that would entice them to vote for him (ie the gay marriage amendment try–I don’t think anybody thought it would pass but it was primarily a move to gain future votes).
Of course, fear-based attacks at the Democratic nominee didn’t help, but I honestly thought that Kerry was a rather weak choice, if only I was old enough at the time to vote in the primaries!
As I’ve said before I don’t think much headway can be gained at the presidential level for abortion issues during this election, because I don’t believe many of the candidates want to venture that far. It is up to the lifers to rally our own political party to enact change through the state legislation and our senators, and then its all uphill from there.
I don’t think we are going to convince anyone to choose life if we keep making it an elite conservative religious movement. It should be an ecumenical issue, plain and simple.
JTM,
“Wrong. The new life created at the moment of fertilization has distinctly, identifiably human DNA from that point on.”
Human DNA does not a human life create. It is possible for one to have human DNA and yet not have human life.
“Legitimate surgery does not deliberately slaughter an innocent human life.”
Well, considering that abortion doesn’t destroy human life, neither does abortion.
“It isn
Miracle? And you are a MENSA member? Yikes. Great grandma was miracled to death. Died attempting to give birth to her 14th. Miracle? Oh please. Pregnant women are a dime a dozen.
Posted by: Sally at September 28, 2007 7:17 PM
That’s the problem with YOU Sally. I’m sure your Grandma was proud of each of those 14. You are a self absorbed, egotist that will never understand what she did for her children.
Wow, does this person have things turned around. I was standing with a sign for about 6 hours, outside the building. I wasn’t signed up to speak, and I was aware that we outnumbered them 6 or 7 to 1, so I stayed outside to pray and be a public witness. Occasionally our folks would start chanting, but for the most part we were quietly peaceful. Some of us did not join join any chanting, but instead made several efforts to start singing, some successfully. Their group was about 90% white females under the age of 22. I think a lot of honking was from young men who liked what they saw (tight pink shirts worn by young women.) Sorry to be profane.
A well-oiled machine? Our group are mostly local residents who oppose this place, some of whom don’t necessarily consider themselves “pro-life.” Their group was a trained and organized army of activists, most from out of town, or state, and many bused in. Why did most of their group outside suddenly leave at 8 pm? Either that is when their bus/train left, or that is when they decided cameras were no longer watching. Why were they outnumbered 6 or 7 to 1? Because that reflects our community. I didn’t see many of the area pro-lifers from Chicago or collar counties. We were focused on getting concerned citizens out, not pro-life activists. This person had this so wrong.
As for conduct of the PP crowd, it was actually better than I have seen. Sure, they were trying to be as loud as they could, and even tried getting in the faces of some of our folks to try and incite us. We behaved admirably (although I reminded a few people of Romans 12:14.) But I have had things thrown at me, I have been spat upon, and I have seen these folks get violent. You could see them working as a team, or in teams, and they had been trained for this event.
You are not an enigma, just another proabort in denial trying to delude everyone else like you are deluded.
The process by which a living being is deliberately made a dead one is called killing, and abortion kills a living, growing, human being.
Your language of denial sheds innocent blood, which God identifies as the most toxic pollutant there is. That is why it is vile, and that is why you need to clean it up. But first you need to open your eyes.
Of course, any proabort will deny that the effect of abortion on a woman’s body is a form of assault, but denial doesn’t alter facts, it only blinds the denier.
Back when lawmakers were not bought and paid for by people who hate people and therefore wanted fewer of them around, abortion was illegal because it was recognized that it took an innocent human life.
Coerced/uninformed/desperate “consent” doesn’t change the nature of abortion, or it’s negative impact (hence, the word assault) on the body of a women subjected to it.
Like you care.