Men, have more kids and live longer
Washington Post, November 19:
A young, trim farmer with four or more children: According to a new study, that’s the ideal profile for American men hoping to reach 100 years of age.
The research, based largely on data from World War I draft cards, suggests that keeping off excess weight in youth, farming and fathering a large number of offspring all help men live past a century….
Some surprising findings emerged. First of all, a man’s chances of reaching 100 rose along with the number of children he had produced by age 30.
Compared to childless men of the same age, a 30-year-old man in 1917 who had one to three children had a 61% increased chance of living past a century, the data showed. However, a man’s chances for extreme longevity almost tripled if he had fathered four or more children by age 30, the study found….
Theoretically, a household full of young kids should deplete a family’s resources and undermine the longevity of parents…. And yet, young dads with many children lived much longer than other men in this sample.
“This may be due to the support by the children when the person becomes older,” [study co-author Leonid] Gavrilov speculated. Alternatively, siring many children “could be an indicator of good general health and attractiveness on the marriage market, leading to earlier marriage and hence to more kids by age 30,” he said.
Apparently they can’t fathom the obvious, that fathers with many children are happier – giving and receiving more love – more active, and have more reasons to live.
[Photo is of the Duggar Family, who on August 2 welcomed their 17th baby. They have been featured on the Discovery Channel several times.]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
We all say how important diversity is until someone dares to do something different. I love the way the Duggars do their own thing. The way they follow their hearts and dreams. Their life challenges the modern status quo. That really irks a lot of folks.
I’ll say one thing – when youre 50+, chasing a one year old all day long will make you FEEL like youre 100!
My grandmother and grandfather had 12 kids. My grandfather died when he was in his 40’s.
“However, a man’s chances for extreme longevity almost tripled if he had fathered four or more children by age 30, the study found….”
Special Note to Men: This is not a free pass to impregnate as many women as possible so you can maybe live longer!!!
:)
Yes, aren’t the Duggars great!
Mrs. Duggar married at 17, and is homeschooling her kids using her High School education. The older kids school the younger ones. (I wonder if those SAT scores will near the three-digit range…)
Mr. Duggar has stated publicly that he’s not sending the girls to college, and his comments on other subjects can be found on the “Stormfront White Nationalist” board.
I’ll say one thing – when youre 50+, chasing a one year old all day long will make you FEEL like youre 100!
Posted by: TexasRed at November 28, 2007 3:07 PM
Everyone gets to feel the way they want to feel.
I’m closing in on 50 and I have a one year old (he was a surprise)
After chasing him all day, I feel 20. Everyone gets to feel the way they want to feel. I have never felt better or more alive. It is that diversity thing again, I guess.
Laura,
Homeschool kids generally outperform public school kids.
Homeschool kids whose mothers have only a high school education also outperform public school kids.
The single strongest predictor of student achievement is student teacher ratio. When I was teaching public school, we put the lowest achieving kids in small classes and they would improve 1.5-3 years academically per year. Attention from the teacher makes a huge difference in student performance. That is why homeschooling works.
As for the SAT the lowest score is 200 and the highest 800. It is a scaled score not a percent correct. You can’t get a score that is not triple digits. http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/sat/scores/understanding.html
“However, a man’s chances for extreme longevity almost tripled if he had fathered four or more children by age 30, the study found….”
Special Note to Men: This is not a free pass to impregnate as many women as possible so you can maybe live longer!!!
:)
Posted by: AB Laura at November 28, 2007 3:22 PM
******************************
Do the kids all have to have the same mother?
I’ll say one thing – when youre 50+, chasing a one year old all day long will make you FEEL like youre 100!
Posted by: TexasRed at November 28, 2007 3:07 PM
Everyone gets to feel the way they want to feel.
I’m closing in on 50 and I have a one year old (he was a surprise)
After chasing him all day, I feel 20. Everyone gets to feel the way they want to feel. I have never felt better or more alive. It is that diversity thing again, I guess.
Posted by: Anonymous at November 28, 2007 3:49 PM
**********************************
I just turned 57. He’s my grandson so I dont chase him all the time. But no, being tired is not just a state of mind.
The single strongest predictor of student achievement is student teacher ratio. When I was teaching public school, we put the lowest achieving kids in small classes and they would improve 1.5-3 years academically per year. Attention from the teacher makes a huge difference in student performance..”
I totally agree with this. Smaller class sizes are better for students. Its funny though, because education funding keeps getting cut and class sizes keep growing. When I was a teacher in AZ, i had 32 students per class. The 8th grade classes had at least 38 per class. Thats just ludicrous.
Laura,
I also wanted to comment that having older students help younger ones is a pedagogically sound practice. It is the basis for cooperative learning as well as mentoring programs in schools and between schools. All of the public schools in which I worked had mentoring programs which were effective at improving performance in both the affective and cognitive domains. One really cool program had the kids from the Spanish National Honor Society tutoring the ESL kids in English while the native Spanish speakers helped the Honor Society kids with their Spanish. Both groups also gained in cultural understanding and self esteem. The kids ranged in age from 14 to 21.
JM,
The way schools save money on class size is to have more gifted programs. Since there is no legal limit on class size for kids above the 5th grade, some of our gifted classes would have 48 kids. We knew that they were intrinsically motivated, all we had to do was present material. It was up to them to learn. If they got below a B, for two report cards, they were out. They worked hard because they wanted to stay with their social group and not be moved down. I didn’t teach those classes, but we all knew that was the deal. Most of the teachers were really great and did have interesting lessons. They also had virtually no discipline issues because there was a list of kids waiting to take their place if they were kicked out.
that anon was me
I just turned 57. He’s my grandson so I dont chase him all the time. But no, being tired is not just a state of mind.
Posted by: TexasRed at November 28, 2007 4:07 PM
I agree that being tired is not a state of mind. After I had my baby, I joined a fitness center and try to exercise more now which helps a lot, too. I mean I think the exercise helps mentally and physically. When I was younger, I thought the idea of exercising to be more energetic was bull, but it works for me now. I think the combination of the exercise, a positive outlook and a sweet baby are why I feel so good.
Congratulations on your grandson. Do you have other grandchildren as well?
This post both amuses and alarms me. It’s like the men with deeper voices post, where they have more children. I think it was implied that unless married men have a lot of kids, they aren’t “real” men. That’s insulting to both men and women.
This post neglects the fact that even though men that have more kids may statistically live longer, women are the ones intimately involved in producing the kids. It’s like a validation that the woman’s sacrifice to make more babies is less important than the perceived benefit for her husband. It’s truly insulting. If this fact is true, the point remains that men statistically can’t live longer unless they go through women to do it. It ignores the fact that women are the ones that sacrifice the most to have more kids.
Lyssie,
Not all women consider the time put into children a sacrifice. Many consider working outside the home a sacrifice. They find time with their children fullfilling and outside work a grind. Whether a woman chooses to stay home or work outside the home, there remains a diversity of opinions as to how rewarding it is to a given individual. I remember reading the reader surveys in parenting magazines showed many wanting to stay home longer if not permanently after their baby was born.
As for guys with lots of kids, I remember one guy who had five kids and his company wanted employees to carpool. He said he didn’t want to carpool because whether he was at home or at work, he was constantly with people. He said that the only chance he got to be alone where he could fart or pick his nose in peace was his twice daily commute. His supervisor let him keep his parking spot.
This post both amuses and alarms me. It’s like the men with deeper voices post, where they have more children. I think it was implied that unless married men have a lot of kids, they aren’t “real” men. That’s insulting to both men and women.
Posted by: Lyssie at November 28, 2007 4:55 PM
Lyssie, I don’t think the number of children makes someone a “real” man, but I absolutely think a “real” man can see the value of a child. Which is, of course, priceless.
Hippie-
Gifted programs cost money, money that a lot of schools don’t have. The school I used to work at had a gifted program. But my students only went once a week. When I student taught the gifted program was cut because the school couldn’t afford it. It sad really. Where did you teach Hippe and what age?
You start off the SATs with a 200. You get a quarter of a point deducted for every wrong answer. So if you answered all the questions wrong you would wind up with a zero. That’s why in the SATs if you don’t know the answer don’t guess.
JM,
That is where skilled administration comes in. You actully get money for all your identified GT students. Just like you get money for each identified special ed, limited English etc. That is why you have to provide differentiated curriculum. Even if you don’t have a separate program, you have IEP (individual education plan) to meet OCR documentation requirements. As I pointed out before, smart administrators structure enrollment to maximize student performance based on the characteristics of the student groups. Smart, quiet, hard workers get packed in deep, while low performers get extra attention. That way you maximize performace at both ends of the spectrum and meet your student achievement goals. It is not cost effective to put gifted kids in small classes. Instead, you can put them in small cooperative learning groups for projects etc. Still only one teacher for many kids.
As for meeting program and documentation requirements, I have seen two different strategies in two different school districts. In the first district, the strategy was to follow every rule and guideline and get very very few citations when audited. This did cost some money, but they felt it was the way to go. The second district did what they thought would be popular and spent the money on lawyers to fight the gov’t regulations.
I taught middle school, high school and community college.
Jess,
You start off the SATs with a 200. You get a quarter of a point deducted for every wrong answer. So if you answered all the questions wrong you would wind up with a zero. That’s why in the SATs if you don’t know the answer don’t guess.
Posted by: Jess at November 28, 2007 6:03 PM
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
That is not how scaled scores work. Yes, you lose a quarter point for wrong answers and get a point for correct answers. Your final (raw) score is then plotted on a normal curve which is the scale. The lowest score is 200 and the highest is 800.
You start off the SATs with a 200. You get a quarter of a point deducted for every wrong answer. So if you answered all the questions wrong you would wind up with a zero. That’s why in the SATs if you don’t know the answer don’t guess.
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Let’s see now. If you lose 1/4 point for each question and you start with 200, you would have to get 800 wrong answers to get to zero. The SAT may seem long, but actually there are not 800 questions on either the math or language sections. Conversely if you started with 200, and you get a point for each correct (on 800 items!), the max score would be 1000, not 800. This alone should tell you that is not the way the test is scored.
Such astute mathematical reasoning. Good Luck on those SAT’s.
Hippie, I never said it wasn’t a worthwhile sacrifice, because if a woman wants to have a bajillion kids, that her prerogative. More power to her. :D I am simply against a husband demanding that his wife have more kids. Do you know what I mean?
I’m just talking about if a woman decides to stop getting pregnant, her husband should not be able to make her get pregnant again if she does not want to, simply because it raises his chances of longevity.
Farmers with lots of kids have more unpaid labor than farmers without lots of kids. Traditionally many farmers did not allow their oldest children to marry. They were needed on the farm. A lot of these farmers would go through 3 and 4 wives before they bit the dust.
Of course they are happier not having to do all the work themselves or pay someone . If the farm is prosperous, it shouldn’t be hard to find another brood mare when the old one wears out.
Lyssie,
I basically agree with your points. I just wouldn’t call choosing to have kids a sacrifice cuz most folks who choose to do it don’t think of it that way. Sure there is probably some rare woman out there who was bullied into having more kids than she wanted, just like there is someone whose husband bullied her into an abortion. I think that these few people have big problems that lead to these situations.
That anon was me.
Lyssie, I found out the meaning to that song. EEK! You were right.
Another correlation and causation lesson.
The full article states that this correlation can support two different causal scenarios. The one that Ms. Stanek has chosen to promote, or the reverse: Having many children is not the cause of good health leading to longevity, but having many children is caused by (or a symptom of)good health and longevity. The study is self-admittedly speculative on that theory.
My GT programs were a joke. That’s one reason why I dropped out of school.
Let’s look at the Duggars:
1. Married to only eachother for over 20 years
2. Debt-Free
3. Built their own home and own it outright, which is quite impressive.
4. Accept no welfare or government assistance
5. Teach their children beyond the three R’s since all the kids play a musical instrument.
6. Children learn responsibility and organization so that the home stays peaceful and clean.
7. Older children learn how to care for those who are smaller and weaker than they.
8. They have family time where they read the Bible and the parents impart values to the children.
9. The children have a full-time mother rather than being dropped off at daycare at 6:30 am and picked up at 6:30 pm.
10. Each child, besides his/her parents, have 16 other siblings whom they can rely on as adults when they get in trouble.
Now, let’s look at the average 2.5 children family.
1. Over half of marriages end in divorce. Step/blended families and the norm.
2. Most Americans are in debt up to their eyeballs, from homes to cars to credit cards.
3. If you own a home, you likely have a mortgage.
4. People accept welfare with no qualms nowadays.
5. Most kids get end up subliterate from their public school education.
6. The children destroy the house because Mom picks up behind both kids. Mom has to dictate every move (get up, get dressed, brush your teeth, eat breakfast).
7. The children fight with eachother and don’t share. Each child has his own room and PSP.
8. Mom and Dad both work and the TV raises the kids. No talk about honesty, integrity, loving thy neighbor etc. Homes are typically nominal in values or value-free.
9. Mom and Dad tag team daycare, which raises the 2.5 kids. The only times the children interact with mom and dad are the weekends and grabbing drive-thru before going home, taking a bath and getting in bed.
10. Most kids have one, if lucky 2 siblings. Many have to care for their aging parents alone. Many get depressed and lonely. All adults have money crunches and can only go to Mom and Dad.
I’d much rather be a Duggar than those that chastize them.
Jacqueline, great post about the Duggars. Thanks!
Congratulations on your grandson. Do you have other grandchildren as well?
Posted by: Anonymous at November 28, 2007 4:39 PM
*****************
No, he is my first. He was born 2 days before my birthday and had his first birthday last month.
Another correlation and causation lesson.
The full article states that this correlation can support two different causal scenarios. The one that Ms. Stanek has chosen to promote, or the reverse: Having many children is not the cause of good health leading to longevity, but having many children is caused by (or a symptom of)good health and longevity. The study is self-admittedly speculative on that theory.
Posted by: phylosopher at November 28, 2007 11:34 PM
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
I have to agree generally. Having many children is likely a symptom of virility, confidence, good mental and physical health as well as strong organizational and managerial qualities as well as an indicator of a good marriage. I think historically people judged a man by how well he managed his family. Basically a man who couldn’t manage his relationship with his wife and children probably had poor interpersonal skills and evidenced ineffective leadership as well.
I was an only child. My husband was one of seven. He had an older half brother and five younger siblings. His family always had trouble with money. He was out selling GRIT papers and mowing lawns when he was just six or seven. His parents never had time for them. His father was always working. His mother was either incapacitated by pregnancy or obsessing over the new infant. The other kids were pretty much on their own. He wound up taking care of his younger siblings. He hated being part of a big family. My mother was one of 9 – she was third youngest – and she hated it too. She was raised by her older sisters, not her mother. There were only 19 months between her and her next sister so she wasnt even ‘the baby’ for very long. The Duggars have a right to do what they want, but being part of a huge family isnt always a good thing for all involved.
The Duggars have a right to do what they want,
But they’re hated and persecuted for it. Which is why I had to defend them.
but being part of a huge family isnt always a good thing for all involved.
That’s true. I was merely talking about this isolated case.
The Duggars have a right to do what they want,
But they’re hated and persecuted for it. Which is why I had to defend them.
but being part of a huge family isnt always a good thing for all involved.
That’s true. I was merely talking about this isolated case.
Posted by: Jacqueline at November 29, 2007 2:28 PM
**********************
Who is persecuting them? And how? From what Ive read they are pillars of their community and thought of very highly by the people around them.
Who is persecuting them?
Laura. And google their name and see the awful things people write.
And how?
I dont see how that can reasonably be called persecution. If the husband was denied a job or they were not allowed to shop where they want etc then Id agree they were being persecuted – but I dont agree that some strangers blogs is ‘persecution’