Weekend question: Mr. Brooks

mr.%20brooks.jpgMy husband and I watched Mr. Brooks on dvd last night, starring Kevin Costner, William Hurt, and Demi Moore, and co-starring Marg Helgenberger.
I didn’t realize what I was getting into or I likely wouldn’t have rented Mr. Brooks, because it is one of those serial killer movies, and they freak me out.
But I really liked this movie. In fact, I give it 3-1/2 stars, a rarity for me. I love Hurt in any movie, and Costner, who I’ve never considered a great actor, was great.
So was the plot, for the most part. But there was one plot line that nabbed me. I only review movies with a pro-life theme or thread, and we had one here….


It was similar to the Godfather II thread, which portrayed ruthless mobster Michael Corleone as a fiercely devoted family man who became so enraged when finding out wife Kay had had a secret abortion he slapped her and banned her not just from his life but also from their children’s lives.
Here’s the trailer for Mr. Brooks:


In Mr. Brooks, the teenage daughter of serial killer Earl Brooks (Costner) turns up pregnant midway through her first semester of college. When Jane tells her parents, Earl emphatically states abortion is out of the question and offers to raise the baby. Jane is equally emphatically abortion minded until that moment, when she says she will reconsider. Typical. If a mother in a crisis pregnancy is offered love and support, she will most often choose life.
I won’t give away the end of Mr. Brooks except to say the prospect of his seeing future grandchild became Earl’s motivation for a life or death decision.
All of this is way twisted, I know. But similar to Godfather II, even a schizophrenic serial killer knows abortion is wrong, and similar to Godfather II, this became a redeeming quality of one who had no others.
Mr. Brooks’ pro-life stance was an obviously planned juxtaposition.
On one hand he was a serial killer no better than Dahmer and Gacy.
weekend%20question.jpgOn the other, he was pro-life. Of of all possible character attributes, the writer and director chose this as Mr. Brooks’ one featured nobility, something they decided demonstrated the exact opposite of the schizophrenic killer mentality.
Why is that?

297 thoughts on “Weekend question: Mr. Brooks”

  1. I sounds like what my friend Bob did to his ex wife. They were still married at the time of this incident. He explained that he and his wife were fighting. The fight escalated, and she turned around and yelled “Well, I was pregnant, but I took care of it.” “I went and had the little bastard sucked out of me.” *gasp* I asked him what he did. He replied “I slapped the sh*t out of her.”

  2. Wow. Just wow. I clicked on the link to the Godfather post, and then clicked on the comments link to this post, and my jaw just hit the floor.
    I don’t know how to explain how utterly disturbing and creepy it is to see people who constantly talk about how loving and concerned for life they are turn around and advocate domestic violence.
    Threats of physical violence. Yep, that’s the way to stop abortions. Relationships where physical violence is a real possibility…yep, those are exactly the kinds of situations that women want to bring children up in.

  3. Hi Carol. I don’t advocate violence at all. I have never hit my child or any one else for that matter. I am against the death penalty also. I don’t think the prolifers on this site are advocating domestic violence. Be back in a bit to post my answer to the weekend question.

  4. Yup, if you chose to live with a violent man, I believe you have an obligation to abort your pregnancies.
    You like that kind of misery? Fine, but you’re not entitled to drag tiny, vulnerable people into your particular brand of sickness, much less raise another generation of abusers and victims.
    Once a man puts his hands on a woman, you know EVERYTHING you will ever need to know about him. Allowing a freak like that access to children makes you guilty of child endangerment – if not outright abuse.

  5. What a better world this would be if serial killers like George Tiller, Warren Hern, Leroy Carhart, and all their “colleagues”/accomplices in the abortion cartel would recognize abortion as murder.
    Abortion is a cruel and unjust death for the baby. It is a living death for the mother. It kills part of her, and it poisons every life it touches. The irresponsible sperm donor who shoves his mate and their child into harm’s way just to avoid taking responsibility for them isn’t bettered by that; he only becomes more hardnened in his misogyny. The real father who begs his abortion-minded mate not to go through with it is also emasculated by being legally robbed of his right to give both his mate and his child the protection they need and deserve, which men are normally hard-wired to give them, if she disregards him. This kind of emasculation is keenly felt by the otherwise most calloused of men; and his grief manifests itself in anger which will vent at anyone who reminds him of the abortion. As a pro-life activist, I have seen the whole spectrum of fear, anger and rage vented by all these categories of men (and some women); some of it has been directed at me, some at others, none of it constructively channeled, though it’s good for the guy to get it out of his system in a way that doesn’t do further harm to vulnerable, innocent people.
    There are also men who physically assault women who stand up to their demands that they get “the little bastard” “taken care of”. It’s a side you don’t hear very much about, since it so gives the lie to the old proabort chant, “Pro-choice guys are really great/They let women decide their fate”. (More accurately phrased, “Pro-choice guys are cowardly crap; they leave women to take the rap”…for the woman always pays, though not always as dearly as the child. As Frederica Matthewes-Green has pointed out, “No wonder pro-choice slogans ring with first-person-singulars: my right, my decision, my body, my choice. The flip side of autonomy is loneliness. Abortion promises to make a woman unfettered, empowered and free; instead she finds herself isolated, endangered and sad.”) But it’s real; more information on this is available at afterabortion.org.

  6. Jill, are you sure they didn’t make him pro-life to make him even more loathsome to certain folks? Or to associate pro-lifers with murder, physical abuse, etc?
    You say that this shows that even a murderer knows that abortion is wrong. The pro-aborts will probably say, “Of course he’s anti-choice. He is a murderer, after all.”

  7. You say that this shows that even a murderer knows that abortion is wrong. The pro-aborts will probably say, “Of course he’s anti-choice. He is a murderer, after all.”
    Posted by: John Lewandowski at November 3, 2007 10:45 AM
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I just got the pro-life vibe “life begins at conception and ends at birth.”
    How can you call Corleone “pro-life?” How can he be described as “pro-family?”

  8. You see, pro aborts support the murdering of children, however when it comes to other issues, they suddenly become these “bastions of tolerance.” Domestic violence? I think he snapped. Abortion is murder. The act is wrong. Domestic violence is also wrong. You can’t condone one and loathe the other.

  9. “You can’t condone one and loathe the other.”
    So domestic violence is okay when a guy snaps and beats the snot out of his partner because she aborted? It’s okay because abortion sucks way worse than domestic violence and the b*tch deserves it, right, Heather?
    That doesn’t make sense. You do condone domestic violence when it involves a “man” reacting to his partner’s abortion because it “serves her right for committing murder”.

  10. I am not endorsing what either character did. All I am going to do is try to answer the question. Maybe the filmakers were saying that abortion offends the moral code of even the most hardcore criminals. Inmates in prison have their own code of “honor” and crimes against children are usually in violation of that. That’s why criminals who hurt children are usually separated from the general population. Perhaps this is the point the filmakers are trying to get across?

  11. I didn’t say that I condoned it. I can also say that the lady must have been a real trash bag. Who says things like that? She meant to be malicious. I think he should have shoved a bar of soap in her mouth.

  12. I didn’t say that I condoned it. I can also say that the lady must have been a real trash bag. Who says things like that? She meant to be malicious. I think he should have shoved a bar of soap in her mouth.
    Posted by: heather at November 3, 2007 11:02 AM
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    You don’t know if she was trash.
    You don’t know anything about her.
    She RESPONSIBLY decided not to bring a child into a violent, abusive relationship, and you want her punished for that.

  13. Laura, not all children who grow up in an abusive home turn out to be abusers or victims of abuse.
    Posted by: Carrie at November 3, 2007 11:08 AM
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Not all, but a significant and dangerous percentage.
    Not everyone exposed to the Ebola virus gets the disease, but I feel it’s usually best to err on the side of caution…

  14. Let’s give the old, and might I add, very tired PC slogan some thought, shall we? ABORTION IS BETWEEN A WOMAN AND HER DOCTOR. LOL! First of all, abortionists are not doctors. Second, what a totally selfish slogan!! What about fathers, siblings, and grandparents? I guess just don’t count. I suppose it is somewhat true though. The lady pays the abortionist to kill her child. He agrees to kill it. Abortion. What a beautiful thing. @@

  15. Laura, I don’t feel babies should be aborted because they might be born into an abusive home. First of all, you can’t always predict when a home will become abusive. One in three girls become victims of sexual abuse sometime in their life. I don’t think we should start aborting female unborns just to spare them from the possibilty of abuse. That’s alot of females that would have to be aborted. People can rise above the abuse in their backgrounds. Where there is life, there is hope.

  16. “I can also say that the lady must have been a real trash bag. Who says things like that? She meant to be malicious. I think he should have shoved a bar of soap in her mouth.”
    She doesn’t sound like all that pleasant of a person, I agree but I don’t see the good in “retributing” one act of violence (abortion) with another act of violence (domestic abuse).
    The fact that you’re trying to justify his hitting her for her abortion and for what she allegedly said (can’t really prove she said it unless you were there…) means you condone men beating their partners for aborting, which is unacceptable because two wrongs do NOT make a right.

  17. Why are men always to blame? By condoning this woman’s potty mouth, you are actually saying that the way she treated Bob is acceptable. I think not.

  18. @Heather: Have you ever talked to the woman in question? Do you even know her side of the story? Good to know you only need one [biased] source to get all the information about what happened. It’s best to hear both sides before making a judgment. I never trust a word that comes out of my friends mouths after an argument with another person. I get both sides of the story before I “take sides”.
    And I’m not going to drop it, you just want me to drop it because you can’t defend yourself.

  19. Laura, I don’t feel babies should be aborted because they might be born into an abusive home.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    You’re right, in a healthy world no woman would stay in an abusive relationship. That being said, I believe that women who choose to remain in abusive relationships have an obligation to avoid dragging children into that kind of sickness. It’s the very definition of child endangerment.
    You choose that kind of lifestyle DON’T HAVE CHILDREN!

  20. “Why are men always to blame? By condoning this woman’s potty mouth, you are actually saying that the way she treated Bob is acceptable. I think not.”
    Since when was a woman being a witch reason to beat her up? Again, one act of violence in retaliation for another act of violence is unacceptable AND immoral. It’s like gang warfare…a Blood kills a Crip and the Crips kill 3 Bloods in return to make up for that one death and the cycle of violence continues.
    Hitting somebody because they are taunting you and generally being terrible to you is unacceptable because it just goes to show you lost control of your emotions and it really makes you no better of a person.

  21. @Heather: Does it matter whether I’m PC or PL? And does it matter who I am? I’m sure one of the admins will be able to look up my IP address and let you know who this is.
    But for the record, I’m torn between PL and PC mostly because I detest the methods and most of the people on either side of the debate. I lean PL though, but on my more cynical days, I lean PC.

  22. “I wouldn’t ever WANT to talk to the murderer in question.”
    How very diplomatic of you. I’m glad I’ll never have to turn to you in a time of need.

  23. @Heather: Have you ever talked to the woman in question? Do you even know her side of the story? Good to know you only need one [biased] source to get all the information about what happened. It’s best to hear both sides before making a judgment.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Aw, c’mon!
    just because a guy is capable of beating the crap out of a women doesn’t mean he’d LIE about her.
    I’m sure the abuser in her story has a deeply frustrated and misunderstood inner child. He’ll probably tell you himself that it’s not his fault…
    (Have we all seen this about 10,000 times?)

  24. @Heather: Both are repugnant in my eyes. Neither is acceptable. I’m beginning to sound like a bloody broken record here, one act of violence NEVER justifies the act of another act of violence. Get over it.

  25. And Heather, using terms like “babykiller” is one of the many reasons I am loathed to openly call myself Pro-Life.

  26. Let’s talk about violence. An abortionist can plow scissors into the back of a baby’s skull!!!! He can suck that child’s brains out. He can toss the baby into a garbage can. He gets paid to do it!!! Think about it!

  27. “Jill, are you sure they didn’t make him pro-life to make him even more loathsome to certain folks? Or to associate pro-lifers with murder, physical abuse, etc?”
    John, I agree this may be correct. But, on the other, even a killer like Michael Corleone know abortion is murder.
    btw: the godfather I & II were on Channel A&E last night….

  28. Heather! ARE YOU DENSE!?
    It’s terrible that that happens. It’s immoral and disgusting. I don’t see ANY GOOD from coming from men beating their partners for getting abortions! What good comes from a man beating his partner for killing his child? NONE. It WILL NOT bring the dead child back. It will NOT make the woman pregnant again. It will NOT make him feel any better.

  29. I think calling Mr. Brooks pro-life is a huge stretch. Maybe he is anti-abortion in general, maybe he his just anti abortion when it comes to his own family. But he’s not pro-LIFE, he’s a serial killer for pete’s sake.
    You all call US murderers for wanting to allow women to make their own choices, but you call an actual murderer a good moral person for disagreeing with one of the things that you disagree with.

  30. btw: the godfather I & II were on Channel A&E last night….
    Posted by: jasper at November 3, 2007 11:35 AM
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    You may be able to watch tham again this afternoon. A&E had to pull an hours-long “Dog the Bounty Hunter” marathon.

  31. And Heather, using terms like “babykiller” is one of the many reasons I am loathed to openly call myself Pro-Life.
    Posted by: Anonymous at November 3, 2007 11:32 AM********************************************************************* What is abortion then? Um, Do you think I just made that one up? Get used to it. It’s been used for years.

  32. Well, he divorced her after that. That made him feel better.
    Posted by: heather at November 3, 2007 11:37 AM
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    She should have sent his pathetic azz to prison. I bet that would have made her feel better. (Wife beaters tend to do poorly in prison. Spending time as someone’s “b***h” might have provided him with some enlightenment…)

  33. God Heather, and you wonder why Laura makes fun of you?
    Well I’m glad the divorce made him feel better, it probably would have been better if he just divorced her instead of beating her up THEN divorcing her.
    Actually, Heather, “baby-killer” was originally used as an epithet for soldiers that fought in Vietnam. How kind. I don’t think you made it up but it certainly doesn’t do the pro-life side any favors in getting people to hate abortion. It’s just as lame as calling pro-lifers “misogynists” or “women haters”.

  34. You’re welcome.
    Having a thick skull is only really beneficial for when you’re in an accident that could cause a head injury. Otherwise it’s not too helpful.

  35. Um…calling somebody a “babykiller” is somehow exempt from namecalling?
    That’s funny.
    I apologize for calling you dense, it’s just very frustrating talking to you and I should not have lost my temper.

  36. Okay, I accept. I’m really just trying to figure something out. For example: What would you do if some guy taunted you and said, “I have just molested your child.” “I wanted to teach the little bastard a lesson.” He would get more that a SLAP from me.

  37. I wouldn’t hit him, because really, would it make things better? No. It would get me an assault collar and it would ruin any credibility I had in testifying against the bastard in a court of law.
    I would go to the police and have THEM take care of it.

  38. Anonymous, you and Laura are 2 of a kind. Nice name calling.
    Posted by: heather at November 3, 2007 11:47 AM
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    You don’t even remember your midnight meltdown, do you?
    You have no room to talk…

  39. So? Laura, you drove me to it. My body, my choice. I wonder if the zoo is aware that you have been abusing their animals. Maybe I should tip them off.

  40. I’ll let them know that some zealous, nut log, pro choicer has admitted to beating their animals with sticks.

  41. @Heather: Yeah…and that has to do with what? Your analogy was poor. Child molestation is illegal in the US and I could call the police. Abortion is [unfortunately] legal in the US and you cannot call the police.
    But he could have called his lawyer MUCH sooner and he probably could have gotten a much more favorable (to him) divorce.

  42. I see your point about bringing a child into an abusive home as child endangerment. I don’t think killing is the answer, that’s all. Sometimes abusers pick a target child so therefore not all children within the family are abused. Also, abuse doesn’t just happen within the immediate family. Children are abused by aunts,uncles,neighbors,siblings,etc. Sometimes there is no discernable history of abuse, but it happens anyways. I remember the case of Lisa Steinberg. I always thought that her adoptive mother should have gotten her the heck out of there. She should have protected Lisa even if she couldn’t protect herself.

  43. Wow Laura,
    Yup, if you chose to live with a violent man, I believe you have an obligation to abort your pregnancies.
    She RESPONSIBLY decided not to bring a child into a violent, abusive relationship,
    You’re all about choices…but your “choices” are all bad…
    How ’bout the choice to leave the relationship? How bout the choice to put the child/ren up for adoption if you can’t bear to leave?
    Your choices involve staying and continuing to get beaten and killing your children…

  44. “How ’bout the choice to leave the relationship? How bout the choice to put the child/ren up for adoption if you can’t bear to leave?”
    If I were ever in an abusive relationship, it would be my responsibility to haul my behind out of there, get a restraining order and go to the cops.
    But that will probably never happen as I’ll never be in a relationship in the first place. :-p I kid, I kid.

  45. *ring the bell* DING, DING…Quick! What’s worse? Animal abuse or spousal abuse? I’ll even toss in alcohol abuse, before you do it for me.

  46. Rae,
    That’s not you posting as anonymous is it? You guys have the same IP address. I hate when people post as anonymous…it makes everything sooooo confusing.
    I’ve learned however that IP addresses don’t mean anything…
    And don’t worry, in time you’ll find the right guy and then you too can be in an abusive relationship.
    What? I mean you too can be in a relationship. :)

  47. I think alcohol abuse is the worst because alcohol abuse can lead to animal and/or spousal abuse.
    But I consider spousal abuse to be worse than animal abuse, though both are pretty damn terrible (why would anybody want to kick a dog? Jiminy crickets…).

  48. @MK: Oh yay! I get to be in my own private hell that is an abusive relationship! I can’t wait!
    *end off-color sarcasm*
    That Anonymous is certainly a character…

  49. *does a little Mexican hat dance for Rae!!* I’m in a really good mood today. I really am:} I even have enchiladas in the oven.

  50. It’s hard to compare evils…past a certain point there all just bad.
    Like asking which is better, feeding the hungry or curing the sick?
    Which is better ice cream or cake?
    They’re all BAD. They’re all GOOD.
    and now I want some cake and ice cream…

  51. I can actually UNDERSTAND spousal abuse before I can understand animal abuse. Spousal abuse is worse, but I can at least understand wanting to hit a fellow human being. I don’t get how anyone could be inspired to kick a puppy or something. It just seems…insane. Puppies make everyone happy!

  52. @Erin: Until said puppy sh*ts on your new couch… or until said kitten vomits in your suitcase and you don’t notice it for months and by the the smell is there to stay.

  53. Animal abuse and spousal abuse usually go hand-in-hand. Animal abusers don’t just abuse animals. They also abuse people. Animal abuse can be a clue that domestic abuse is taking place within the home.

  54. That’s it.
    First Laura and Heather going at it like the WWF and now Erin is stealing Rae’s men…
    CHILDREN! BEHAVE!

  55. :-(
    Well, MY puppies make everybody happy. I love my puppies. And my baby kitty. *insert stupid silly baby talk here*
    I am a massive sucker for my pets.

  56. heather- you know I have actually never had an enchilada? I usually don’t eat Mexican food because I have no tolerance at all for spicy food. So I have never had an enchilada!
    And can you blame us, MK? Stabler is yummy!

  57. MK bites her tongue and doesn’t say anything about Erin’s penchant for small animals while disregarding her small…never mind.

  58. I know that guy…didn’t know his name tho. He’s on that channel that doesn’t play ANYTHING except his shows…
    Oh and Monk. I love Monk.
    But everytime I look to see if Monk is on, that guy is there. You can have him. (Although he is cute).
    Kinda like the guy from Psyche too.

  59. Lol, Rae, you are always ahead of me.
    *grins* MK, that is the perfect set up for a emasculating joke about a man.

  60. We don’t have Taco John’s down south…we only have Taco Bell. Though that suits me just fine!
    Did anyone else go and get their free taco this week?

  61. Taco Johns? Never heard of it. We have Taco Bell. I love Jack in The Box though. It’s west coast though. Great tacos.

  62. Monk is a cute show…Psyche is too.
    Darn I wish I had cable! I miss USA. And Comedy Central. And TNT. And TLC (mostly for Miami Ink).

  63. I LOVE JACK IN THE BOX.
    Any time my family takes a road trip up north, we stop near Nashville at one of the only Jack-in-the-Boxes on the East Coast. It is my absolute favorite fast food ever.

  64. @Carrie: Like Hugh Laurie…he gets better as he ages. Ditto with Alexander Siddig.
    It really is quite unfair.

  65. Erin,
    THere you go contradicting yourself again. You say you can’t eat mexican food and then you’re high fiving Heather over tacos!

  66. I thought of a woman who gets better with age-Susan Sarandon. She looked better in Bull Durham than she did in Rocky Horror.

  67. Taco Bell tacos are not real Mexican food. Nothing from taco bell is real Mexican food. That’s why I can eat it!

  68. George Clooney looks better now than he did back on ER…
    @Erin: Aw crap! Okay, if you get House, I get Wilson! :-3

  69. “Once a man puts his hands on a woman, you know EVERYTHING you will ever need to know about him. Allowing a freak like that access to children makes you guilty of child endangerment – if not outright abuse.”
    OMG!!! Close call! Laura comes within a hairsbreadth of sanity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    How about “Once a man performs an abortion (which is an invasive assault, in effect whether legally recognized as such or not, on a woman’s very delicate reproductive system), you know EVERYTHING you will ever need to know about him.
    Allowing a monster like that access to women or children, born or unborn, makes you guilty of reckless endangerment and the ultimate child abuse.” Just one little step away from finally coming full circle to the reality of what she supports! Will she do it? Or does she want to wander in the wilderness for 40 more years, assuming, for no good reason, that she has even 40 more months, weeks, days or even hours left on this planet…Hmmmmmmmmmmmm??? Probably not; she’s not into improving the planet for real, suffering people, just imaginary ones who somehow benefit from being tortured to death, exploited, bereaved, and subjected to invasive, dangerous “surgery” that serve no legitimate medical purpose…and emus. But who knows; hope springs eternal…then you die.
    Oh, and speaking of death, JKeller, you are dead wrong when you state, “You all call US murderers for wanting to allow women to make their own choices, but you call an actual murderer a good moral person for disagreeing with one of the things that you disagree with.” More typical poor-choice projection. We have no problem with women making their own choices so long as those choices don’t include the deliberate, premeditated taking of innocent human life, aka, MURDER. We call you murderers because murder is the act you advocate under the guise of “choice”. To you they are synonymous; to us, they are not. It is you who call the murderous abortion profiteers and their accomplices/supporters good moral people because they agree with the murder that you agree with, and level all sorts of false, derogatory stuff at us because we disagree with something you agree with…MURDER.

  70. I am still waiting for the mother of all Nor’easters we are supposed to get. All we have so far is some wind and some rain.

  71. I am ready to deliver a knock-out punch concerning her point that children would be better off being aborted than coming from an abusive home. I am ready……

  72. Carrie, right! BTW, my good moods don’t last forever. I’ll be back to cyber/boxing with her soon.

  73. Carrie and Heather,
    I know longer dabble in astrology. It is completely agains church teaching…
    (Psssst…but if I did, I’d bet that there were a lot of Scorpios and Leos on this board.)

  74. Carrie,
    I disguise mine with a Sag rising…I appear to be your party girl…fun loving, goofy, lookin’ for a good time…
    Til you tick me off…and then you see the scorpion.
    It’s the sarcasm that’ll tip you off.

  75. Heh, while on the subject I may as well mention I’m a taurus XD
    I dunno, it does seem to be gettin a bit worse up here Carrie. Lots of wind and trees creaking. Hope none fall, my house has a bunch of ’em around.
    Rain isnt that bad yet though

  76. MK, TRUE RE: putting too much stock into astrology. Sometimes I can’t help but notice that some “same sign” people act alike. That’s why I don’t get along with other Libras.

  77. MK, sarcasm and scorpios. Dan, the wind is picking up a bit. It isn’t the way they described. You know how the weathermen are? They break out the flannel shirts when there’s a threat of a dusting of snow.

  78. Carrie,
    LOL!
    Okay, I’m off to a movie. Hold down the fort. Both here at Jills as well as where that storm is blowing through…
    I’ll check back in a few hours!
    Dan,
    Taurus…immovable. Man, when you get your head around somethin’…
    If anyone can change your mind, it’s two Scorpios…lookout!

  79. Carrie, yeah, here they tend to be off about the weather a lot when it comes to storms and the like. Such as when we were supposed to get like 6 inches and got 3 feet of snow, or a drastic 1 foot storm becomes some flurries. Got give ’em credit though. New England gets some ridiculously weird weather

  80. Truthfully, no rae. I’d have pegged as an earth sign. Your so rational. And unflappable. I love earth signs.
    Erin,
    THere’s a joke there, but I refuse to make it. :)

  81. @Dan: I miss New England weather. We don’t get snow here in Minnesota anymore. I had more snowdays when I lived in Rochester, NY for two years than I did in the 10+ years I’ve lived in Minnesota!

  82. lol MK, I actually am really stubborn, as are both my parents. Makes for interesting discussions etc.
    But when it comes to most things I try to force myself to stay open minded, and I am open to change. Or so I like to think.

  83. @MK: My vati is an Aquarius, my mutti is a Cancer (which I used to use as an excuse as to why my mom and I never got along), and my younger brother is a Leo (he’s not outgoing, but he has the arrogance) and my miniature brother is a Taurus.
    Bwahahahahaahahahaha.

  84. Heather,
    She’s a virgo…Cancer is a crab, Pisces are fish, Virgos are …? C’mon, you can do it.
    Dan,
    I try to force myself to stay open minded, and I am open to change.
    Well, now there’s an oxymoron if I ever heard one!
    FORCE yourself to stay OPEN MINDED!
    But it’s good to know that you’re leaving the door open a crack!
    Dang it! Now I’ll be late for my movie…
    gotta go NOW!

  85. lol Rae. I havent had a snow day here for 2 years or so, even when the whole North Shore aside from my town is closed due to weather. It’s ridiculously annoying. A couple of cars crashed in to telephone poles (thankfully not at a fatal speed or place of impact) because the superintendent refused to have a snow day during his/her career.
    He/she didnt believe we were gunna get three feet of snow one time either, and it took a parent phone tree to get them to give in and say, well yeah, ok its possible, ill give the day. And we had to end up taking three. They must been very angry.

  86. sorry to make you late MK.
    I’m told I’m open minded, but there are certain issues (e.g. gay marriage) where I cant understand any rational argument against it, and refuse to change my position.
    Abortion, not one of those issues. Lol

  87. Carrie, will do. I have to get ready for work myself. So, I have to leave as well. I’m so stinkin tired.

  88. I don’t know how many of you know anyone who has schizophrenia but I want to make the point that it is a mental disease that a person is not in control of. It is not a character flaw. It is not a conscious choice. Yes, a serial killer needs to be incarcerated and treated for mental illness. I don’t absolve the person of the crime. He shouldn’t be out in society because he is dangerous.
    Now having said that, I want to add that even a person with a mental disease has other features to his personality. He can still make choices, (fries with that?) and he can still follow rules (stop at the red light). He can even make moral judgements like seeing abortion as depriving a human of his right to live.
    I think the writer wants to show us that serial killers and other mentally ill people have the same depth and diversity as everyone else and struggle to make sense of the world just as we do. They are human. They are strong and weak. They are good and bad.
    I have known a couple of people with schizophrenia. One dangerous and one not. They are real people who are struggling with their humaness just as we are. They just have more strikes against them.
    Much as we would like to stereotype as many groups as we can, the nature of the human condition resists it. People are individuals, even crazy people.

  89. Laura,
    The pregnant woman in an abusive relationship has a moral obligation to herself and her baby to get out.
    We have a moral obligation to help her and if possible to help him too.
    People can change, even criminals can be rehabilitated.

  90. From past threads:
    What does someone like, say Doug, think of this? You’re quite consistent, too. How do you feel about killing born babies if it’s in the “best interest” of the parents?
    Bobby, I’m against it after viability in most cases, let alone after birth.
    ……
    Doug has already explained to me that he feels that it would be okay to kill a newborn, as long as you anesthetized it first, and it was the mother’s wish, and no one else knew about it. :(
    No, Bethany, I did not say that. Gotta be some other context in there.
    Doug

  91. From past threads:
    Bethany: Yes, these are anecdotal stories, but have you ever read cutting forums, or other forums where people who are depressed meet with others to talk about their feelings? Have you noticed what is in common with all of them? It’s almost always that they feel unloved, worthless, that life “sucks”. Why? Because no one has taken the time to give them the care they so desperately need.
    Guess what? Life doesn’t have to suck for them. People can get love. They can get happiness. If other people are willing to take the time out of their days to tell them they care!
    Bethany, agreed that it doesn’t have to suck for them. I’m not saying that everybody who is depressed should kill themselves, and of course there are many people as you describe. However, there still may be people like our hypothetical guy who really does want to die.
    ……
    Doug, I think that perhaps the reason you do not seem to have empathy for people like this because I think you may have never actually suffered in this way….so you just haven’t experienced and really just don’t understand what they’re going through. You assume you know, but you really just don’t. I have been there, and I do understand it though. I have been to the point where I was so depressed i wanted to die. I remember thinking to myself, “What’s the purpose of living if you’re just going to die anyway?” And I was frequently asking people if I died, would they go to my funeral? I was reaching out for love and comfort. I needed a friend desperately. I needed to know that someone cared about me. I prayed every night for that friend, who wouldn’t leave me, or treat me like trash…and God gave me that person, about 12 years ago, who is now my husband. He taught me to laugh, and gave me a reason to live. He stopped me from dwelling on death. He could have told me that I was right, there was no purpose in my living if I was suffering so, but guess what? He didn’t. Why? He cared about me. People who care about other people don’t recommend or allow them to decide that they want to die. They give them reasons to continue living.
    Geez, I do have empathy for people like that.
    ……
    On overcoming challenges:
    Why couldn’t you also apply that to pregnancy, and the beauty that could be achieved by carrying an unwanted pregnancy to term, overcoming that challenge, so that child could be a joy to some adoptive couple out there for the rest of his or her life, instead of having to be sucked out of his mother’s womb without a care?
    Much satisfaction is achieved through giving of yourself for someone else, overcoming the obstacle of pregnancy, being unselfish enough to give someone else the gift that you have been given a a result of your own actions. What could be more satisfying than that?
    If the woman really does want a child, down deep, then sure – it could be very fulfilling to go through the pregnancy. That’s a big “if,” though. If a couple wants to adopt, there are 150,000+ kids waiting to be adopted right now, in the US alone.
    Doug

  92. great points Hippie. I was talking about child abusers in general. I wasn’t talking about people with Schizophrenia. Sorry if I didn’t make that clear.

  93. Hippie, aren’t serial killers sociopaths anyways? People with schizophrenia don’t become serial killers.

  94. @Carrie: Serial killers can be schizophrenic (ie one of their delusions could be that they have to sacrifice 5 women to God in order to make it into heaven), but usually serial killers are sociopaths, you are correct.
    I think Hippie was criticizing Jill’s comments:
    “But similar to Godfather II, even a schizophrenic serial killer knows abortion is wrong,”
    “On the other, he was pro-life. Of of all possible character attributes, the writer and director chose this as Mr. Brooks’ one featured nobility, something they decided demonstrated the exact opposite of the schizophrenic killer mentality.”
    Hippie was criticizing Jill’s misuse of the term “schizophrenia”.

  95. If you want to see a great movie about a serial killer, see DON’T ANSWER THE PHONE, starring genius character actor Nicholas Worth (RIP).

  96. I think the term Jill should have probably used was “hypocritical”. Though I do see why she used “schizophrenic” because it seems as though one’s mind is split if abortion is a big no-no but shooting men and women in the head at somebody else’s whim is “just business”.
    However, while schizophrenia literally means “split mind” it doesn’t mean “multiple personalities” or “divided consciousness”, it really means a mind that is “split from reality”. I recall reading in an old psych textbook that the guy who coined the term “schizophrenia” to describe the disorder regretted calling it “split mind” because it made people think of multiple personality disorder, not being divorced from reality.

  97. SoMg, I think I’ll skip that one. Criminal Minds is about all I can handle as far as serial killers go. I haven’t watched it that much this season though..

  98. I didn’t see the movie Jill referred to so I don’t know what exactly the character suffers from nor do I know a lot about specific mental illnesses. I did know two people who were diagnosed schizophrenic and I really felt sorry for them. One is a friend who takes her meds and is not what you would call a bad person. She has a lot of trouble keeping a job, apt. car running etc. At one point I gave her a car because I couldn’t stand the thought of a 55 year old woman walking 20 blocks in 100 degree heat to catch the bus to work.
    Her daughter is working on a Phd. at Cornell in some biomedical something. Incidentally her daughter was an unplanned pregnancy. She was a single mom who never gave up despite terrible difficulty. Her daughter is a gift to the world from someone that some might say had nothing to offer.

  99. @John: Astrology is very silly, but it can be quite fun because at times, it does accurately describe people to the point that it is eerie (though that could be the whole self-fulfilling prophesy).
    @Hippie: Schizophrenia is a horrible, tragic illness. And it’s awful how schizophrenics are treated due to the “stigma” (which shouldn’t even exist in the first place if people actually *tried* to understand what schizophrenia really was) and how the term “schizophrenia” is thrown around incorrectly (leading to further stigma).

  100. Astrology is silly but fun. Anyway, I love it when I find someone with my same birthday. I saw a movie about Queen Victoria and got interested in her husband Prince Albert. I found a book in German about him so I figured I could kill two birds with one stone.
    Turns out he had my same birthday.

  101. Rae, I started my college career at Clark Univ. in MA. 20% of the student body was majoring in psy. at the time I attended. I used to be really interested in abnormal psych., but then other interests took over.

  102. @Carrie: Hehehehe. Yeah, I go to the University of Minnesota- Twin Cities and a good majority of the College of Liberal Arts students are psych majors. But the U is pretty well known for their psych department (both grad and undergrad), from what I’ve heard.
    I would be a psych major but my vati nixed that…

  103. I ended up leaving Clark U. because I couldn’t afford it. I went to a state college to study social work. I decided social work wasn’t for me so I left after my junior year. I don’t regret getting out of social work. I work with plants now. Plants are easier to deal with anyways.

  104. @Carrie: Oooooh, plants? Are you a botanist or a landscape-person?
    If you could be a tree, what kind of tree would you be?

  105. I’d be a weeping willow…So moody, poetic and expressive…plus I’d get to live near water, and be pretty much left alone because I’d need sooooo much room…no one crowdin’ me.
    How bout you?

  106. I’m sitting here eating a bowl of trix.
    When I was a kid they didn’t come in fruit shapes, just balls. And there were only three colors. Rasspberry Red, Orange-Orange and Lemon-Yellow.
    The box I just bought is all balls…I ate all the green, blue and purple ones and now I’m staring into a bowl of my childhood. Very cool.

  107. I would want to be a pecan tree, because pecans are the most delicious nut evar. :)
    Or a magnolia tree because they have such pretty flowers.
    Never did care for Trix. Not a big cereal fan, I often have canned soup for breakfast.

  108. If you could be a tree, what kind of tree would you be?
    Rae, oaky-dokey, even though I’m tired (in fact I’m plum tuckered-out) and I might pine for my younger days, it’d spruce up this place to have a few trees.
    Yew know, I’ll choose the good old Douglas Fir

  109. I thought about a crepe myrtle for the same reasons as you’re magnolia…but no, a weeping willow it is.

  110. Doug,
    You really need to branch out with your humor. Stick to debating. Leave the jokes to us. I’m just treeting you to a little fun. We’re talking about matters of life and limb here and you’re making oaks.

  111. *snort* Puns are so wonderful…clever as all get out.
    @MK: Darren Hayes is coming to Chicago on November 16th to perform at Border’s (which I can’t go to due to work and school) but then he’s performing at some indie record store and doing a meet and greet on November 17th.

  112. Chicago-Borderline Music date change
    Thanks to Janet and Susan for the heads up on this. It hasn’t been announced officially yet by Darren, but it appears that the date has changed for Darren’s Borderline Music appearance in Chicago. It was scheduled for Friday night (Nov 16) at 7pm. It was changed to Saturday night (Nov 17) at 7pm.
    I’ll let you all know as soon as it’s official, but I wanted to give a heads up to the fans that are planning on traveling to Chicago for the gigs so that they can plan around the changes.
    Please note: I’m talking about the “Borderline Music” gig NOT the “Border’s Store” cd signing and acoustic set in Chicago. As far as I know, the Border’s gig is still scheduled for the 16th at 12:30pm.
    Here is the link to Borderline Music’s website that tells of the change…

  113. You’d have to leave Friday night (I could pick you up at the airport) and go home Sunday night (I could get you to the airport) No American Girl Dolls, but hey Darren Hayes. Actually, the American Girl store might be near the state street store!

  114. flight $125.00 + $25.80 taxes & fees = $150.80
    4:10 pm Depart Minneapolis (MSP)
    Arrive Chicago (ORD) 5:29 pm Fri 16-Nov
    Duration: 1hr 19mn
    American Airlines American Airlines 405
    Nonstop flight
    3:50 pm Depart Chicago (ORD)
    Arrive Minneapolis (MSP) 5:25 pm Sun 18-Nov
    Duration: 1hr 35mn
    American Airlines American Airlines 1059
    Nonstop flight

  115. $205.00 + $25.80 taxes & fees = $230.80
    6:47 pm Depart Minneapolis (MSP)
    Arrive Chicago (ORD) 8:12 pm Fri 16-Nov
    Duration: 1hr 25mn
    United United 182
    Nonstop flight
    3:00 pm Depart Chicago (ORD)
    Arrive Minneapolis (MSP) 4:23 pm Sun 18-Nov
    Duration: 1hr 23mn
    United United 385
    Nonstop flight

  116. You really need to branch out with your humor. Stick to debating. Leave the jokes to us. I’m just treeting you to a little fun. We’re talking about matters of life and limb here and you’re making oaks.
    :: laughing ::
    MK, you’re barking up the wrong ….

  117. Well, dears, looks like I missed some fun…
    I’m an Aquarius. And if I was a tree, I’d be a sugar maple. Because the leaves turn SO beautiful this time of year.

  118. Doug,
    You’re knot going to start this again! Well I refuse to fall for it. I’ll beech you can’t think of anymore anyway…so just put a cork in it, wood you?

  119. 2 libras
    2 scorpios
    1 capricorn
    1 aquarius
    1 virgo
    Pretty even so far…2 water, 2 earth and 3 airs (oh you “mental” signs, how you love to debate)
    But no Fire.

  120. Oh MK…I can’t fly, don’t have the $$$. :(
    I’m actually really planning on coming to Chicago in January for the Dresden Doll concert, which is the weekend of my 20th birthday. :)
    @JK: Ooooh, Bonsai treeeeeee.

  121. I know some people don’t like Astrology due to feelings of it being deviltry, the occult, etc., but I’ve seen it be accurate to a degree that is far, far beyond chance.
    There really are “Virgo personalities,” and “Aries personalities,” etc.

  122. Okay Doug,
    So far you are the only one that has surprised me.
    I can’t fathom an old soul like a pisces being so pragmatic and pro-choice. :( Back in the day, I idolized pisces. So sad…so disillusioned. You’ve gone and broken my little heart now. I’ll never look at fish the same way. I blame the Taurus!

  123. And I Doug also believe it to be true…however, it’s the place that this power comes from that makes it a no-no. I’m already feeling a little guilty for playing at it this long. The Tarot really used to freak me out…

  124. I’m a Libra…what animal is that? I never have seen it, all I remember is its balanced or something like that.
    I much rather stick to the Chinese Zodiac…I’m a rabbit! =D

  125. My rising sign is Taurus. So I’m both stubborn and insipidly practical and perfectionistic. :-p
    @MK: I would like to come, but I don’t think November is going to work well, I think the January trip might work better because a) I can actually confirm that I’ll be going to that concert (the Darren Hayes one is more of a show up and see if you get in thing) and b) I will be working “full time” so I can try to get my hours done by Thursday so I can get Friday off.
    Plus there is that whole no-school thing in January. :)

  126. @MK: Cork is actually a part of a tree…learned that in botany. Yup-yup.
    I know, it was intentional. The italics just didn’t work for some reason.

  127. Rae,
    I fixed the cork thing. And I want you to come whenever you can, I just know how you feel about this Darren person…
    Okay, January it is!

  128. Abortion is wrong.
    Nobody should have one.
    It should be illegal.
    It makes me cry.
    Hey, In the John Cusack movie today is talking to his sister (Joan Cusack) and she is trying to talk him out adopting the martian kid…she goes on and on and on about how they are like mosquitos sucking the life out you. They take your money, you brain, your soul…
    And John says “Wow, you should get a job with Planned Parenthood”
    I almost fell outta my seat. You think he reads our posts?

  129. It’s adorable! But I want a paint brush…COLOR it screams COLOR ME! That pink chair is a riot. It’s like the secret part of Rae.

  130. And I Doug also believe it to be true…however, it’s the place that this power comes from that makes it a no-no.
    MK, I really don’t get that. If we note that people born at certain times of the year and under certain astronomical conditions tend to have certain qualities, how is that “evil”?

  131. I used to have those exact cabinets (only more of them) in my old house. We painted them white and put enamel red handles on them. Well, we just painted those black ones red. And Mary Pat has that same hot pink chair. (Only it’s fuzzy).

  132. It’s not that it’s evil. But it’s not something we should dwell on. It falls under the “forbidden tree”. If we place our complete trust in Him then we don’t need to know “the future” or “occult” things. You know, the unseen/unknown. Unless He sends it as a gift like to the mystics. Dabbling in it opens doors to the demons, who love to wrap our heads around stuff like that. Get us all involved in thinking we are in charge because we can read our charts or palms or futures…does that make sense?

  133. @MK: I love my pink circle chair. I wish I could paint the apartment, but I have to “ask permission” of my landlord and that’s a pain. Though in all honesty, I won’t be at this apartment long enough to really do anything with it, I plan to move out as soon as my lease is up. Preferably back home but my mutti is planning on nixing that idear.

  134. kids are home…have to go play Sherlock Holmes on the computer with them….be back tomorrow…
    G’night all!

  135. Well, you can always move to Chicago Rae. Your other mother would welcome you with open arms! And you can paint all you want!

  136. MK, thanks for the explanation – given what many people believe it does make sense to see it that way.

  137. I’ve always wanted black walls…that way I could paint constellations on the wall.
    Oh Rae, you’re a woman after my own heart. I love the sky.
    When I was a very little tyke with but a few words, my parents remember me pointing up and saying “Moon and ‘tar.”
    Doug

  138. Okay, I just wanted to drop this comment in somewhere, and I am hoping it won’t drown in this craziness, but I just wanted to drop a little comment re: quote of the day.
    Ann Coulter is crazy. Kindergarteners CAN NOT CAN NOT CAN NOT be expelled for mentioning God. Such ignorance as displayed by this woman, yes, it does scare me.

  139. Leah, do you really think Ann Coulter is unaware that her comments get her NATIONWIDE attention? Of course she is going to say crazy, off-the-wall stuff..you know why..because it sells her books and makes her money. I mean you don’t REALLY believe she honestly thinks all the crazy stuff she says? Or maybe you do…but I personally don’t take things at face value like that. She keeps herself out there by saying extreme stuff…it’s how she makes her money. She’s a business-woman…somewhat extreme in her tactics, but a business-woman nonetheless.
    *And on a separate note, this is my first comment on this blog although I have been an avid reader for quite a while. My name is Elizabeth and I live by the Aurora PP..I am 22 and am a single mother to a 2-year old crazy baby. My “best friend” cried for me when I wouldn’t have an abortion…needless to say I haven’t spoken to her in almost 3 years. I am more than thankful for all the stuff you girls post about on here!! Just wanted to introduce myself!!*

  140. Elizabeth–
    I have a hard time that anyone could believe all the evil things that come from her mouth. I’m sure, naturally, that she does it for the money and to create a stir. Whether she believes it or not? I think if anything, she is slowly convincing herself of them. If she’s this deep in, might as well keep it going, right?
    But do I think she’s saying this good because she wants to improve the lives of Americans with her ridiculous statements (no matter how warped her idea of “improvement” may be)? Hell no.

  141. Leah, I do not think anyone that hurls insults like they’re greeting cards is honestly trying to improve the state of the world either. She started out just being blatantly honest about some things back in the beginning I thought, and then took a turn when she saw that the things she said got her more and more attention, so now I just think she says things for the attention mostly. But I gotta say, at least she is consistent, which is waaaaay more than I can say for some people in the public eyes. When you see her on tv, you know she has got something totally out there to say…and I think people who get all riled up about it play right into her hand.

  142. Gaelyn07, 10:42a: Great post.
    As to whether my use of the word “schizophrenic” was appropriate, Earl Brooks (Costner) was a honest to goodness schizophrenic. His other personality was Marshall (William Hurt). It really was a good movie.
    Am curious. What diagnosis would you all give Adolph Hitler? Would you simply label him a hypocrite?

  143. Elizabeth–
    You’re right. I am going to promise myself to not get at all upset about her hateful words anymore. The woman is delusional. She is to be pitied, if anything. I’m just going to let her negativity float over me–I won’t even acknowledge it.
    And in that light, the quote of the day was a bit ridiculous. Actually, hugely ridiculous. Life goes on…
    Welcome, Elizabeth! Judging from your introduction, it seems as though you are entering this community from the opposite side of the table as me, but I’m glad to have you here. What makes for more interesting debate than opposition? I don’t think it would be quite as much fun if we just left you PLers to sit around and agree with each other all day. :)

  144. Leah, of course…what fun would the world be if we all agreed all the time..I just can’t imagine it..I wouldn’t have any reason to procrastinate on writing this essay about plant reproduction. Then I might actually have to read and write about it…which judging from all my research will take me a LOOOOONG time! ugh…

  145. Hey Elizabeth,
    Welcome. If you’ve been reading us for a long time now, then you probably know who most of the players are.
    Glad to have you aboard. Don’t be shy. Jump right in and before long we’ll be thinking of you as a regular.
    Blessings to you and your “crazy” choice.
    :)

  146. Rae, I have worked at nurseries/garden centers, usually in the perennials dept. I do some landscape design for customers at the nursery. I also do plant displays. I help customers pick-out trees and shrubs too.

  147. Getting back to the topic of would children from abusive homes be better off being aborted, who do you think staffs the domestic violence crisis hotline, the women’s shelters, the sexual assault crisis hotlines, and child advocacy programs? That’s right-survivors of abuse. That’s because survivors have been there. They know how to turn a negative into a positive-to use their experiences to help other people.

  148. Bill Clinton came from an abusive home. Ted Bundy’s home wasn’t as far as I know. People aren’t always products of their environment. Aborting children from abusive homes would be condeming them to death before we even know how they will turn out. It would be taking their choice away. It would be denying them all the rays of light that appear even in the darkest situations.

  149. As to whether my use of the word “schizophrenic” was appropriate, Earl Brooks (Costner) was a honest to goodness schizophrenic. His other personality was Marshall (William Hurt).
    Posted by: Jill Stanek at November 3, 2007 9:32 PM
    As someone pointed out upthread, multiple personality disorder and schizophrenia are two separate mental disorders.

  150. Kenny Rogers Sings About a Father’s Abortion Regret
    By Gudrun Schultz
    NASHVILLE, Tennessee, April 7, 2006 (LifeSiteNews.com) – Country legend Kenny Rogers addresses the sorrow felt by many men after they lose a child to abortion, in the title track of his new album, Water and Bridges.
    The pain of losing a baby to abortion is rarely acknowledged as an issue for men – abortion is usually considered a woman’s affair. But in fact men are involved more often and more deeply than is generally believed, both with the decision-making and with the pain and regret after the child’s death. In particular, experts say, men who encouraged or coerced women to get an abortion may experience intense guilt over their role in the child’s death.
    The song Water and Bridges tells the story of a man who took his girlfriend to get an abortion as a young man, and now regrets the decision, looking back later in life.
    “She called, said she was late. So we took a little drive upstate an’ took care of that?just took care of that,” the story goes.
    “But now I’m longin’ back at some of my decisions?it’s much too late to change?a father could have held his son,” the father says with regret. “If I could undo what’s been done.”
    The song is not about Rogers, he told CMT News, but “it’s really about choices you make. You make a lot of choices when you’re young, and you pay for them when you’re older.”
    Rogers is 68 years old and has been married five times. He has five children, including 18-month-old twin boys.

  151. Women Who Regret Abortion Respond to Ms. Magazine
    Women associated with the Silent No More Awareness Campaign are disappointed by Ms. Magazines latest attempt to protect abortion rights instead of women’s health. In an effort to address dwindling support for abortion, the magazine revived an old strategy to return the focus of abortion to the women who have them.
    Unfortunately, Ms. Magazine was only prepared to represent some women. According to Georgette Forney, co-founder of Silent No More, a campaign to raise awareness about the after affects of abortion, Many of us who are silent no more wrote to the Editor of Ms. Magazine when we heard about their petition back in August. We asked them to represent all of our voices but they didn’t even acknowledge our letters. Mrs. Forney feels it’s clear that Ms. Magazine isn’t seeking to represent women but an ideology that is out of touch with women in mainstream America.
    According to a poll commissioned by the Center for the Advancement of Women in 2003, they found keeping abortion legal was the next to last most important priority for women.
    Janet Morana, co-founder of Silent No More noted, The magazines effort to respond to our I Regret My Abortion statement isn’t accurately countered with I Don’t Regret My Abortion? claims. The counter argument would be ?I Regret Giving Birth.? Comparing those who abort unexpected pregnancies versus those who give birth to unplanned children is the more valid comparison. Show me a list of names willing to sign a petition with that statement.
    Sadly, the petition fails to highlight the most important element of abortion; addressing the impact it has on women?s mental and physical health. By refusing to acknowledge that abortion has lasting consequences on women, the magazine puts the $400 million dollar abortion industry ahead of its readers.
    The Silent No More Awareness Campaign is sponsored by NOEL and Priests for Life. Since officially launching the Campaign in 2003, more than 2025 women and men have told their stories publicly at 145 Gatherings in 44 states and 5 countries. The Campaign has over 3600 women and men registered to be silent no more, and is growing by the day. Moreover, the campaign works with abortion healing ministries who have served hundreds of thousands of women each year. Visit the Campaign website for more information: http://www.SilentNoMoreAwareness.org.

  152. “The counter argument would be “I Regret Giving Birth.” Comparing those who abort unexpected pregnancies versus those who give birth to unplanned children is the more valid comparison. Show me a list of names willing to sign a petition with that statement.”
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Ann Landers did it in the 70’s.
    The results were stunning:
    http://www.happilychildfree.com/ann.htm

  153. Laura,
    I remember reading that article years ago when it came out.
    My mother warned me kids were lots of trouble.
    Interesting excerpt from the article regarding the source of regret:
    “Why are they sorry they had children?
    Many, I believe, are disappointed because their children failed to live up to their parents

  154. Are there some invisible components to help explain that staggering 70-percent negative response? Some missing pieces to the puzzle? I see one, for sure. The person who is against something rather than for it is much more readily inclined to take pen in hand and express his anxiety, rage, or disappointment. People who are contented are rarely motivated to write and tell me how happy they are. Anger, hostility and resentment are often the fuel that moves people to action.

  155. I meant to quote that last post.
    Those words are not mine. They are Ann Landers’ from the article posted by Laura.

  156. @hippie,
    now that most of Ann Lander’s letter-respondents are seniors, would their sentiment be the same?

  157. “As to whether my use of the word “schizophrenic” was appropriate, Earl Brooks (Costner) was a honest to goodness schizophrenic. His other personality was Marshall (William Hurt). It really was a good movie.”
    I’m sorry Jill, but no, schizophrenia is not about having different personalities. That’s Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID) formerly known as Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD).
    Schizophrenics are what people would call “divorced from reality”. They have delusions, hallucinations and think things that aren’t real, are real. There are certain speech patterns that go along with schizophrenia like “clanging” which is where they speak in rhymes (even making up words so words rhyme) or they make up words period and use them. They also tend to have what’s called “poverty of speech” in which they speak very short, simple sentences.
    Multiple Personality/Dissociative Identity Disorder is a completely different animal. It has often been thought to be a defense mechanism caused by abuse (often sexual abuse) by creating other personalities (which are often VERY distinct from the “host” personality) that they bring about when abuse occurred to make it seem like the abuse wasn’t happening to them, but to somebody else. However, MPD/DID has been thought to be brought upon by psychiatrists through therapy as opposed to being a true psychological disorder.
    William Hurt is a cool actor. I saw him in this old sci-fi/noir Kiefer Sutherland flick that was pretty good and he was fantastic in it.
    Anywho.

  158. Nah, Ann Coulter can be a conservative role model:
    “Let’s say I go out every night, I meet a guy and have sex with him. Good for me. I’m not married.”
    — Ann Coulter, Rivera Live, June 7, 2000

  159. Jasper, her quote about “If Jews were smart they would convert to Christianity” is not crazy? How do you figure?

  160. “Leah, do you really think Ann Coulter is unaware that her comments get her NATIONWIDE attention? Of course she is going to say crazy, off-the-wall stuff..you know why..because it sells her books and makes her money. I mean you don’t REALLY believe she honestly thinks all the crazy stuff she says?”
    Yes, I do. and it’s not crazy at all.
    Glad all of you liked Ann’s QoTD.

  161. Laura, how about you show us the context you took that quote from? I am just curious in what context she made that because you seem to be using it to say one thing when she could have been saying something completely different.

  162. From FEMINISTING: The abstinence-only haven of Texas ranks first in the nation in teen births and in teen repeat births.

  163. now that most of Ann Lander’s letter-respondents are seniors, would their sentiment be the same?
    John M, good question. I was very surprised that 70% said that if they had it to do over again they would choose not to have kids.
    I’d have guessed 20 or 30%, maybe.
    Doug

  164. From FEMINISTING: The abstinence-only haven of Texas ranks first in the nation in teen births and in teen repeat births.
    Posted by: SoMG at November 5, 2007 1:18 AM
    Texas teen birth rate is high at 62.6 per thousand but DC is higher at 66.7.
    Is DC an abstinence only haven?
    Maybe the stats you refer to have a lower cutoff age. I was looking at the ones tp linked a couple of days ago. The ones I saw included folks as old as 18 and 19. Since these people are adults, I don’t see the big deal if they want to get married, have kids, fight in Iraq, stay out past 11 o’clock, etc.
    In a way, it is really strange to lump adults in with minors this way. I find it condescending. Young women have been good moms throughout all of history. There is no reason to stigmatize an adult for being a parent.

  165. I actually agree with you there, Hippie. My friend became a mom at 18 and she is doing well with her little girl (almost two now, and adorable as I hear it). I’m proud of her. She gave up every opportunity she had to have her baby and keep her, but it was the best choice for her and I’m fully supportive of her decision. She’s a good mom.

  166. When I was 19, I was finishing up my 2nd year in college as a musical theatre/dance major..literally..I had finals and 2 days before them I found out I was pregnant. I had my daughter when I was 20 and pretty much gave up the whole musical theatre/dance thing. I am now in school for nursing and I love it and I love her. She made me grow up in ways I would have never known to before. Do I miss singing and dancing on stage? Sure I do sometimes. It was a lot of fun and I was pretty good at it. Would I miss my daughter more? OF COURSE! I was given the chance to go through something greater than myself and I would never give that up. Wouldn’t then, wouldn’t now. My daughter is now 2 years old and although we are currently undergoing what is termed the “terrible twos” she gives me more joy everyday than doing a thousand dance shows. Just because I was/am still young when I became a parent, doesn’t mean that I will inevitably be a bad one. I think I’m a pretty great one actually. So Hippie, I agree with what you are saying completely.

  167. @Pip: You did? JEALOUS! I haven’t seen that movie in its entirety yet. One day I will…
    I also recommend “Priscilla Queen of the Desert”. It has Hugo Weaving in it.

  168. Gaelyn 07!
    How the health are you?! Ditto Jill on a great post; however, I think that Tiller, Hern, et al do recognize abortion to be murder. Recall Hern’s own sadistic admission that he gets a pseudo-electric “charge” out of the death throes of his victims: “There is no possibility of denial of an act of destruction by the operator. It is before one’s eyes. The sensations of dismemberment flow through the forceps like an electric current.”
    They know it’s murder. You cannot dismember a living, growing baby, piece by piece (often) and not know that you are killing an innocent human being. There’s no getting around it; even first trimester abortions require that the victim’s body parts be counted and reassembled to ensure (as far as one can) that the killer “got it all” and that no parts are left in to make him/her more liable for post-abortion complications, especially infections.
    But they won’t tell that to the women who fill their tills with blood & money. The euphemisms they use, “pregnancy termination”, “blob of tissue”, etc. are just smoke screens to prevent the suppressed maternal instincts of their frightened quarry from waking up and coming to the defense of their first intended victims, the babies. It’s all PR to protect their images and bottom lines (at least as far as they can see). Interestingly, they usually will only OPENLY own induced abortion as murder AFTER they have stopped doing them. Usually; some of them do openly admit that they are killing children, but try to portray the killing as necessary (it isn’t), or therapeutic (maybe for their finances, but not for the mother or child involved.) You know what they say: if you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullsh@t.
    It would be a great thing, though, if they would stop disguising their grisly, genocidal handiwork as “healthcare” and advertise themselves as the murderous predators that they are. Lots of pro-lifers are doing all we can to keep their PR honest, though, and the thanks we get for our pains from them? Trumped up charges, all manner of slander and other verbal abuse, they haul us into court over nothing, and there are many more instances of physical violence against us, in defense of their baby-killing, than have been leveled against them in defense of the babies.
    The part about poor-choice domestic violence needs to be said and said again until it is heard by those who need to hear it the most.

  169. I hate to say this, but Mr. Brooks is a controlling freak. He gets his kicks by giving himself absolute power over others (by killing them). It wasn’t compassion for his daughter or love of her unborn baby that made him tell her not to have an abortion – it was the desire to sadistically manipulate her. And guess what – he knows that she will kill him for it one day.
    It isn’t to give him a redeeming quality, it’s just part of his serial killer mentality – an extension of it. Consider this for a moment – a psychopath uses the pro-life stance to get his jollies controlling his daughter’s life. The pro-life stance is equated with the psychopathic serial killer mentality. Why do you think that is?

  170. Our definitions of “real men” are entirely different. A “real man” in my books is a man who has the courage to support me through a very difficult decision. A “real man” is NOT a man who just decides for himself what is best for my body and beats me if I disagree.
    You claim that this isn’t advocating domestic violence, but it is. You are. You are saying that men who support their wives or girlfriends are “cowards” because they don’t just tell them what to do.
    A real man is able to restrain himself. A real man doesn’t hit his wife – regardless of whether or not she’s being a “witch.” It takes more courage to control yourself than it does to control others – try remembering that.

  171. If you think an abusive mobster is a “fiercely devoted family man” and you also find yourself agreeing with a schizophrenic serial killer then it might be time to reevaluate your thoughts.
    Good luck with that…

  172. Jesus turned over tables but didn’t hit people.
    Ahem. Jesus calls bullshit:
    13When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14In the temple courts he found men selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. 15So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. 16To those who sold doves he said, “Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father’s house into a market!”
    The enemies of Christ used religion to make a personal profit while attacking faith.
    Jesus didn’t just hit people, he whipped them.
    Jesus didn’t just hit people, he hit fundies.

  173. Better that kids die from abuse or mob politics, right? After all, once they’re not TEH PWESHUS PWEBABY FETUS, you don’t give two squirts of goat whiz.
    Pro-life – but only for those who haven’t lived yet.

  174. Holy shit, this WASN’T an “Onion” piece. People actually DO believe that “Mr. Brooks” is a good example of the pro-life mindset.
    Excuse me, God? Can I have off the planet now? Please?

  175. There seems to be some disagreement over the question of abortion here.
    How about this as a rational compromise: If you are against abortion, don’t get an abortion. If you are pro-choice, make choices for yourself. In either case, don’t try to force your own agenda on other people.
    If civility and respect for the views of others as they apply to themselves are not Christian values, they should be.

  176. On one hand he was a serial killer no better than Dahmer and Gacy.
    On the other, he was pro-life. Of of all possible character attributes, the writer and director chose this as Mr. Brooks’ one featured nobility, something they decided demonstrated the exact opposite of the schizophrenic killer mentality.
    Why is that?

    Because he believes he has been granted the power of life and death over everyone, both good and bad? He doesn’t think of his daughter as a person, only a thing to be controlled?

  177. SPOILER
    SPOILER FOR MR BROOKS
    SPOILER
    DON’T READ ANY FARTHER IF YOU DON’T WANT THE END OF THE MOVIE SPOILED
    You do realize that towards the end of the movie Brooks finds out that his daughter axe-murdered someone. The point of the movie is that his madness is genetic, and he passed it down to his daughter, and the fact that she was pregnant and keeping the baby was the most horrifying thing about the whole film. By “supporting” his daughter (you left out the part where he supported her by killing more people at her school so she would no longer be considered a suspect) he was ensuring that generations of people would be brutally murdered. Yes, I realize that it is a fictional premise, but, really, that was one of the most pro-choice films I’ve ever seen. It made the point that sometimes the woman’s instincts are right and abortion is the most moral choice.

  178. rolflmao!!
    this idiot blogger is so warped that she can’t see that she EMpathizes with serial killers’pathological world view.
    People like these give themselves away all the time. Just like serial killers, they cant hold up a facade (of ‘wholesome, godly goodness’) for more than a minimal amount of time, before it slips & their real motives & sick thinking slimes out around the edges of their words & deeds.

  179. OMG. Only on an antiabortion site could someone wonder if a serial killer is pro-life with a straight face. Doesn’t the fact that he kills already-born people kind of make that impossible? Or is Barney Frank right in saying that prolife people want to protect life from conception till birth?

  180. How about this as a rational compromise: If you are against abortion, don’t get an abortion. If you are pro-choice, make choices for yourself. In either case, don’t try to force your own agenda on other people.

    Noted. The next time I see any pro-choice person lobbying for mandatory abortion, I’ll bring up your point to them.

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