Showdown at the Denver Planned Parenthood corral
Protests. This is what executives of The Weitz Company, general contractor helping Planned Parenthood build its new mega-abortion mill in Denver, can expect for as long as the facility is open if they don’t bail on the project by January 31. The aforementioned was taken at a New Year’s picket January 1.
The Denver Families Against Planned Parenthood has drawn a line in the sand by launching the Collaborator’s Project:
The deadline has been set. The Weitz Company has until January 31st to stop building America’s largest child-killing facility or inherit permanent collaborator’s status. Permanent collaborator’s status includes home protests as long as they are killing little children in the facility they build.
The group includes as collaborators….
1. PP abortionists
2. PP facility workers
3. PP donors
4. Those willing to build PP facilities
Pro-lifers have been picketing Weitz officials almost nonstop for months, including Christmas morning.
Then, in a cooperative bi-state effort, pro-lifers helped three Weitz executives ring in the new year by picketing them on January 1. Weitz officials should expect to be greeted by pro-lifers every holiday and in-between. Here are the addresses of the homes being picketed, per FAPP:
Craig and Sue Damos
1623 Plum Thicket Ln
West Des Moines, IA 50266
Phone: 515-327-1844
Email: craig.damos@weitz.com
Craig Damos is the CEO of The Weitz Company and has the authority to stop The Weitz Company Rocky Mountain from building America’s largest death camp. And remember his wife Sue tried to defend PP by saying they don’t do abortions. Yes Sue, they do kill children.
[Hear audio of phone call to Sue here.]
Bill and Marti Hornaday
1998 Oak Creek Dr
Greenwood Village, CO 80121
Phone: 303-770-1767
Email: bill.hornaday@weitz.com
Bill Hornaday is the president of The Weitz Company Rocky Mountain and is the general contractor responsible for building America’s largest child-killing facility.
Gary and Kathy Meggison
11284 W Asbury Ave
Lakewood, CO 80227
Phone: 720-962-8564
Email: gary.meggison@weitz.com
Gary Meggison is the Senior VP of The Weitz Company Rocky Mountain.
See more New Year’s photos on page 2.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
No Way, she really believes that they won’t do abortions there? Has her husband showed her the plans? Good Lord Woman! Open your eyes!
I don’t care who you are, what you’re protesting, or why….
encouraging and promoting harassment at someone’s HOME is classless and dangerous.
Jill – if some Army of God nutcase shows up at one of these people’s homes and does something that ends up causing harm to one of their children, is that still a victory for the Pro Life cause?
You do realize its this type of behavior that turns people away from your cause, don’t you?
Amanda, abortion is classless and dangerous.
Harassment is illegal Amanda. If they were harassing people at their homes, then they would be arrested. No laws are being broken.
Peaceful assembly is a right guaranteed by the constitution…look it up.
Go Denver!!
Amanda said, “if some Army of God nutcase shows up at one of these people’s homes and does something that ends up causing harm to one of their children, is that still a victory for the Pro Life cause?”
I don’t think so….
But ironic how every time an abortion takes place, harm is caused to a child…that’s a victory for your side, no?
“Amanda, abortion is classless and dangerous. ”
And you are 110% entitled to believe that, and not permit someone do it in your driveway.
I will be praying about the meeting!!
They aren’t breaking any laws. Have you heard of any of these people being arrested for their protests of the contractors’ homes?
Well, Amanda? I am awaiting your proof that what they are doing is harassment. Proof of arrests of the Denver protestors also please.
Haha Carrie – what do I need to PROVE? I never said anyone got arrested or should have been arrested?
The media does it too… doesn’t mean anyone is going to get arrested, and just because they’re careful not to step foot on property to make it an arrestable offense does it make it OKAY.
Its the same as Westboro Baptist, same as the media stalking people, same as the papparazzi.
Sure its legal, but does that make it RIGHT? Does the fact that you can’t be arrested for it make it any less classless?
(abortion is legal too, isnt it?)
I’m pretty adamant in my pro-choice beliefs.
Would it be appropriate for me to gather about 50 people and scream “DIE c***-slaver trash” over a bullhorn at Daena’s wedding and reception?
Should I display huge, naked, dead pictures of Geri Santoro to her guests?
After all, you ARE trying to compromise my rights as an American, I probably should destroy her wedding – not to mention the christening of her first child.
If you people are going to harass our families, shouldn’t we harass yours?
Haha Amanda. Laura usually brings up Westoro Baptist on posts like this one. I guess you beat her to the punch. You have a right to express your disapproval of these just as we have a right to express our disapproval of abortion. I don’t view this as classless. I don’t view trying to stop the construction of a facility that will abort thousands a year as classless. I do view people who collaborate as classless. Abortion is an industry that is lacking in people who have class and people who have a soul.
I was eagerly awaiting your arrival Laura. Are you mad that Amanda stole your favorite line?
The nanosecond you endorse the harassment of other people’s families, your own children become fair game.
Laura,
You PC’ers will be lucky to get 10 people to go to ANY protest! Nice pipedream, though!
Laura,
For you to even dream that up & put it into print just goes to show how sick in the head you really are. IMO
Plus it is winter AB Laura. The pcers must have perfect weather conditions to even consider it.
Amanda,
You seem to be forgetting that the death-builders have a CHOICE!
Protesting funerals shows no class, I agree. However, the soldiers didn’t have a CHOICE.
Regarding the others, it goes with the territory. You can live in your dream world all you want, but in reality, this is what happens. Like I said, the death-builders do have a choice in the matter!
“You PC’ers will be lucky to get 10 people to go to ANY protest!”
———————————-
Yup…I second that observation…specially in winter weather! It’s too inconvenient for them.
Laura,
For you to even dream that up & put it into print just goes to show how sick in the head you really are. IMO
Posted by: AB Laura at January 7, 2008 11:07 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Is it as sick as harassing someone’s children on CHRISTMAS DAY?
You’re right! People who do that kind of thing ARE sick in the head – they also deserve return fire.
Carrie,
How true! (LOL!)
Protesting funerals shows no class, I agree. However, the soldiers didn’t have a CHOICE.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We have an all-volunteer military. They all had a choice.
It’s STILL wrong.
Laura,
Then go for it, sicko!
Well Laura, why don’t you organize a protest in retaliation?
Right… because instead of standing in someone’s driveway holding a sign in one hand and a coffee in the other and posing for pictures, a lot of us are busy volunteering and actually making a difference to support the causes I believe in.
Thats not a blanket statement about pro choicers by the way, but about MOST people in general who are not extremists. I know quite a few pro lifers personally, and not a single one who would stoop to this level.
“…they also deserve return fire.”
——————————–
Now, who’s getting violent here?
Amanda,
OK, here we go again…you & your PC cronies are AGAIN going to tell pro-lifers how to act. PLEASE write a rule book for us so we can follow you guidelines to appease you and your pathetic, abortion beliefs, OK?????
Well Laura, why don’t you organize a protest in retaliation?
Posted by: Carrie at January 7, 2008 11:16 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Because I don’t engage in that kind of behavior.
You people have done more harm to your cause.
You really are regarded as a pack of freaks.
I will, however, work to put a pro-choice, Democratic president in the White House. As soon as we have the House, Senate and the Presidency, it should be fairly easy to appoint 2-4 pro-choice Supreme Court Justices to the bench.
Abortion rights will then be safe throughout my lifetime.
“As soon as we have the House, Senate and the Presidency, it should be fairly easy to appoint 2-4 pro-choice Supreme Court Justices to the bench.”
…..about the same time Armageddon should begin.
I don’t care how you regard me Laura.
I thought it was WONDERFUL when those two ditsy losers were sentenced to five months & eight months for harassing a doctor at his home TEN YEARS AGO.
Hope they enjoyed their Christmas as much as they enjoy jail!
If it is bad for our cause, then why do you get your panties in a bunch over it?
“…they also deserve return fire.”
——————————–
Now, who’s getting violent here?
Posted by: RSD at January 7, 2008 11:18 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You’ve never heard the expression “fight fire with fire?”
It has to do with returning the same sort of abuse.
Laura, now you sound like the Army of God.
Ab Laura – I find it incredibly interesting that you chose to repsond that way, considering I made it quite clear that it has NOTHING to do with being pro life or pro choice, but rather how ANY person with better things to do with their lives would act, even if they are VERY pro life.
“Would it be appropriate for me to gather about 50 people and scream “DIE c***-slaver trash” over a bullhorn at Daena’s wedding and reception?”
what does this mean laura, why are you using ***’s?
See, what would you be protesting? It doesn’t make any sense.
I don’t know about you guys (PL’ers), but the more angry Laura & the likes get, and the more they don’t approve of what we do, the more drive I get to keep on keepin’ on!
I think protesting at the homes is a good idea, we have to let know about the grave evil they are involved in.
Exactly what I was thinking AB Laura.
Amanda,
And I find it odd that when you post something and someone responds to it, you always seem to “not have meant” the way it was taken. Do you ever read your posts after you write them?
I think that we should call the numbers provided in honor of Laura………..smiles
Carrie,
Yes, let’s! (she’s driving me to do it!)
Every time she posts Westboro Baptist we call………smiles again
sounds like a plan to me!
:)
I shouldn’t care.
It doesn’t matter.
You guys are about to lose in a HUGE, judicial way, and that’s why you are being so shrill.
As you gather in front of that house, keep in mind that 3500 American women will exercise their freedom to rid themselves of an unwanted pregnancy that very day, and me and mine will be putting the assurance of 40 more years of Supreme Court wisdom in the White House.
Have a nice day!
I have a feeling Laura works for an abortion clinic.
Man, Denver people are so badass.
We should take some notes.
I have a feeling Laura doesn’t work at all!
Hurrah for following the courage of your convictions and protesting. The businesses and the rich elitists seem not to understand that all classes of people are needed to build the Kingdom of God…that building up the lives of the least by giving fare wages for work done…will do more to promote birth control than any abortuary will ever do.
BWAHAHAHAHA!
Gee, I hope they enjoy the body-cavity search!:
Pro-life Women Jailed for Having Begged an Abortionist to Quit a Decade Ago
One faces five months in jail while another has been sentenced to serve eight months behind bars.
LINCOLN, Nebraska, January 4, 2008 (LifeSiteNews.com) – Pro-life activists Shari McKee and Melissa Abbink were jailed on December 28th, 2007, for speaking to Lincoln abortionist Winston Crabb on two occasions in front of his home 10 years ago. Abbink faces five months in jail while McKee has been sentenced to serve eight months behind bars.
According to Operation Rescue, in February, 1998, both were charged with violating the “focused picketing” ordinance even though neither had signs and both incidents lasted only a minute each. “Just long enough,” said OR, “to plead for the lives of pre- born children as he walked from his car to his house.”
After exhausting the appeals of the criminal cases, the convictions were upheld by the Nebraska Supreme Court on September 10, 1999. However, for reasons unknown, the mandate did not come down until September 28, 2005, over 6 years later.
The last two years have been spent seeking a commutation. The women’s cases were brought before the Board of Pardons, which was very sympathetic, but refused to act because the Board does not review misdemeanor cases. The Board referred the cases to the Mayor of Lincoln, who has refused to act claiming he does not have the authority to grant commutations.
According to the women’s attorneys, the Mayor clearly does have the authority to commute misdemeanor sentences.
“We are asking pro-lifers to write to Mayor Beutler and ask him to commute the sentences of these two women,” said Larry Donlan, Director of Rescue the Heartland. “Be sure to point out that the Pardon Board says he has the authority to do so. Be polite and remember, it is a commutation that we are after, not a pardon. Like the parable of the widow, we are seeking justice for these two brave, God-fearing women. Only Mayor Beutler has that ability to grant that justice. He can do so by merely picking up the phone.”
Sure its legal, but does that make it RIGHT? Does the fact that you can’t be arrested for it make it any less classless?
Posted by: Amanda at January 7, 2008 10:47 AM
Amanda,
Nice to know you agree with our line of reasoning.
If you follow your own logic, you see why PLers get so passionate about fighting abortion.
What is amazing to me is that Laura thinks it’s sick harassing people on Christmas day but not sick to rip the legs and arms off of little babies. Or birth them up to the navel and then kill them. Now that is truly sick.
As for the two prolifers jailed – just another sign of how entrenched the abortion culture is in western society.
I’m all for picketing ANYONE who collaborates in any manner with abortion. Someone has to awaken these people’s consciences.
PP doesn’t do abortions – what planet does Sue Damos live on anyway?!!
Laura claims to work in some type of “vet” clinic.
Maybe that’s her code word for “abortion” clinic.
She likely turns in her “blog log” to the abortion clinic supervisor weekly just like a time card and gets paid commission on how many times she can respond to prolifers.
Hard to believe anyone with a veteranary job would have so much time on their hands to constantly be blogging at every chance they get on this issue.
I can only imagine this type of behavior would be condoned at an abortion clinic.
Laura’s responses are so predictable and routine:
1. Make Snide offensive comment
2. Cut and paste article from unkown source
3. Hit post
4. Collect money
I think Laura claims to work in Animal Control….if that’s true maybe she’s just in a permanent snit because she looks so butch in her man-pants at work.
Anon was me…
now now ladies please be nice
you have to step back a little and not get so riled up
“You PC’ers will be lucky to get 10 people to go to ANY protest! Nice pipedream, though!”
uhhh . . . okay, then.
PS-For all interested parties: Colorado’s harassment and stalking laws. Maybe I’ll e-mail it to all the parties whose personal information has been listed in this entry.
“You’ve never heard the expression “fight fire with fire?” It has to do with returning the same sort of abuse.”
———————————–
Ahhh, yes… the “eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth” mentality…unfortunately, those who use this end up blind and toothless…we prefer non-violent behavior.
anon,
Go for it! (BTW…I’m sure the Weitz clansman have already been down that road…to no avail, obviously!)
Hi Laura. Maybe you should e-mail the laws to the police who happened to be stationed at the pickets. I am sure you know how to interpret the laws better than the police.
Laura, don’t bother posting as anon. I know it is you.
Laura’s responses are so predictable and routine:
1. Make Snide offensive comment
2. Cut and paste article from unkown source
3. Hit post
4. Collect money
Posted by: Sandy at January 7, 2008 1:15 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You nailed me!
I get $300,000.00 every time I post here. As we speak I have Richard Branson, Warren Buffet and Bill Gates scrubbing toilets, scooping dog turds and cleaning the lint trap on my dryer.
Laura, don’t bother posting as anon. I know it is you.
Posted by: Carrie at January 7, 2008 1:35 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
…And you’d be WRONG.
I think it’s a great idea, and if it were my idea I would have proudly stamped my name all over it.
OK, Laura. Don’t you think that people have already done what Laura-lite said that she was going to do(email the laws)?
Laura,
Just checked out the Wikipedia link…did you happen to notice all of the old biddies and their shoddy clothing…unbelievable! They don’t have cars, either…they’re all walking!
I think Laura claims to work in Animal Control….if that’s true maybe she’s just in a permanent snit because she looks so butch in her man-pants at work.
Posted by: Anonymous at January 7, 2008 1:22 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Actually, I work at a veterinary clinic. I wear those butch scrubs like all those lesbian nurses do.
Please answer a question for me Laura. Why does this bother you so much? You have said that it hurts our cause. You have also told us numerous times that most people don’t take us seriously and that most people see us as a bunch of “freaks”.
You pc’s should be glad that the prolifers have the freedom to assemble and make their views known
If it was only one side able to do this, you’d have a socialist state like we do in Canada!
You also have a choice to make your views known – but most of you do NOT. Maybe that’s the question you have to ask yourselves.
Of course, really I can answer that question for you:
you have the media to do most of your work for you by misrepresentation and disenfranchisement. When was the last time anyone anywhere saw a really unbiased documentary on abortion, accurately presenting what abortion really is? the benefits (if any) and the harm it wreaks on women and men, not to mention the unborn victim. NOT on any major media outlet be it TV or film.
And to get abortion legal, how do you guys do it – by lies and deceit. That’s been admitted to by Jane Roe and by Bernard Nathanson, America’s premier abortionist in the early ’70s.
“…and just because they’re careful not to step foot on property to make it an arrestable offense does it make it OKAY.”
Yes.
Anon @ 1:29 – Nothing on “harassment and stalking laws” that you linked is being done in Colorado so again, the protesters aren’t doing anything illegal. Please e-mail all you wish…
How about, the nanosecond Laura, Amanda, et al, endorse the murder of other people, you, and any children you may have, also become fair game?
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere, and arbitrarily legalizing the murder of one group endangers all.
The prolifers are trying to intervene on behalf of endangered, human life. If it were your life, I don’t think you’d be nearly so eager to discourage, criticize, disparage & criminalize their activities…You only do it in this case because you believe, with no evidence, that you’re so much better than those who are endangered. But, you have to believe that in order to justify their endangerment, don’t you?
Great post reality czech.
Please answer a question for me Laura. Why does this bother you so much? You have said that it hurts our cause. You have also told us numerous times that most people don’t take us seriously and that most people see us as a bunch of “freaks”.
Posted by: Carrie at January 7, 2008 1:43 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Back in the day – a couple of decades ago – I used to be a fundraising demon for PETA. (This was back when they were still nominally sane…)
Why did I bail?
Because the organization and it’s terrorist arm, the ALF, started making personal assaults on law-abiding American citizens – including demonstrations AT THEIR HOMES.
The nanosecond they started shoving the posters of skinned, bloody animal carcasses in front of children, I was gone.
When you associate yourself with freaks like that, people will cease to take your cause seriously. I don’t even mention my PETA years on my resume, and I was really successful there.
(Google “PETA naked celebrities.” They have a much more successful campaign now. They raise MILLIONS.)
That’s it! We should picket NAKED!
You can’t even compare PETA (is that People Eating Tasty Animals?) to prolife activism. Not on any level.
Laura,
so you couldn’t handle reality then, and you can’t now….nothing has changed – people who show the truth are “freaks” by Laura’s standard. Stay in the dark, baby!
thanks for answering my question. I rarely see you get so upset. I was curious.
The interesting thing about animal rights is that showing the pictures of seals being bludgeoned to death on the ice virtually destroyed the seal fur industry.
By the same token, if we persist, showing what abortion really is (the bludgeoning or dismembering of an unborn human baby to death)should be equally effective. This method was also effectively used by the civil rights movement which showed pictures of lynchings etc.
Laura,
so you couldn’t handle reality then, and you can’t now….nothing has changed – people who show the truth are “freaks” by Laura’s standard. Stay in the dark, baby!
Posted by: AB Laura at January 7, 2008 2:00 PM
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Everyone has seen those pictures, and abortion STILL doesn’t make the top ten list of issues Americans care about.
Seriously, What is going to sway the decision of a young girl with a crisis pregnancy more?;
A) Big, ugly, bloody, fetus photos in front of a bulding contractor’s home, or…
B) Big, hot, naked pregnant photos of Christina Aguilera on the cover of Marie Claire?
I’m telling ‘ya, you can catch more flies – not to mention media coverage and dollahs – with naked celebrities.
Amen, Patricia! As long as people are bothered by the pics, we are being effective.
Laura opined:
The nanosecond they started shoving the posters of skinned, bloody animal carcasses in front of children, I was gone.
Y’know, she’s right, and we should be more willing to listen to her.
Picketing businesses is okay. In fact, I highly encourage it.
Prayer vigils (not protests) outside of abortionists’ homes is also okay.
Prayer vigils outside of construction executives’ homes is a little over the top.
Protests (including graphic photos!) outside of construction executives’ homes is totally outside the pale.
Sure, it’s probably legal. That doesn’t make it right. There are two reasons that it ain’t right:
Firstly, you’re hurting too many innocent people with these protests. What about the children and families of the executives? What about their neighbors? How many kids will see those gruesome (if accurate) pictures?
Secondly, invading people’s personal space (especially with graphic pictures) is exactly the sort of tactic that causes the great Undecided Middle to run away from pro-lifers. Don’t forget: We aren’t just in a legal battle for the rights of the unborn, but we’re also in a battle for the hearts and minds of our nation.
I’m passionately pro-life, but I think these protests are a horrible idea. And I sincerely hope that the protest organizers will reconsider….
Laura,
You think that they’ll keep their babies because of them? Maybe, but I’m going for a two-fer here….both help the cause. Some may be swayed by the pictures, (already have!) and some by the media’s…either way..MORE BABIES SAVED!!!!
Amen, Patricia! As long as people are bothered by the pics, we are being effective.
Posted by: AB Laura at January 7, 2008 2:13 PM
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As long as people are bothered by the pictures, you will be alienating potential supporters and donors.
Even Elizabeth said that she had to cover her daughter’s eyes when they encountered a “Truth Truck.” Someone who’s driving and can’t protect their children from your grisly images will just hate you forever.
I’d like to plug my video again..
It’s a music video ‘remake.’
It can be a bit disturbing though. We tried to do fiona apple’s “criminal” meets some obviously silly shots and the reality of real drug use.
I suggest to get some of the jokes and references you watch the real video first.
Here’s the real video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uTpvjNn2BUM
and ours:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=m7bA0LqZGBo
The fact is that ALOT of people do not really know WHAT abortion is. They don’t WANT to know and they don’t CARE to know. Why?
Because, they want to have sex, sex, sex, and forget about the consequences. They don’t care until it comes back to bite them in the form of a baby, STI’s, mental and emotional health problems, you name it.
There has to be some way to motivate people to care and to understand that sex is more than just recreational pleasure.
Laura, your idea would work only if the womb was transparent – can you imagine Christina A’s pregnant transparent belly? People actually seeing her unborn baby?
And Laura, most young girls do not think her picture is sexy – they aren’t at that stage of emotional development yet.
Laura.
A PETA member???????
Pleeeeeaaaaasssseee. I can take no more.
You raise money to save a stupid chicken to prevent it from getting cut into pieces but lead the charge to endorse babies being cut into pieces??????
Answer me this Laura,
If a cow wanted to have an abortion, would you support that???? I can’t inmagine you would since you’re all about animal rights.
What a joke.
Being an animal rights supporter, do you eat eggs???
Laura said, “As long as people are bothered by the pictures, you will be alienating potential supporters and donors.”
That’s fine with me, Laura…it’s the day that (PC) people drive by waving at me smiling, beeping the horn, bringing their kids up to the picture and and saying “so what?” that would bother me.
Answer me this Laura,
If a cow wanted to have an abortion, would you support that???? I can’t inmagine you would since you’re all about animal rights.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Where I work, we spay pregnant animals every day.
You can’t adopt an animal from a California shelter unless it’s spayed or neutered – and that even true for the pregnant ones.
Oh, by the way, I not only eat meat, I’m a team-penner. Yeeeeee-Haaaaaaaa!
I don’t think Laura will support decalfinated cows.
sweet Hooves! you’re too much!
I
Hooves,
I’m speechless……….
So was I….which is pretty darn hard to pull off.
Hmmm
Laura,
So you eat meat, but were a member of PETA. Why did you start eating animals?
Hooves-in-Maw,
That is horrible. I’m assuming the animal owner knew their dog was due to have a litter?
What disgusting people.
How can people be so cruel.
Better they protest in quiet neighborhoods where few people are around than in front of an abortion clinic, where women are trying to access necessary medical care. I hope they do continue protesting in that neighborhood forever. It’s good news for Denver-area women!
Sandy,
Yes, the owner knew that the dog was pregnant
It’s good news for Denver-area women!
Posted by: reality at January 7, 2008 3:02 PM
———
Why? It’s not open yet….
AB–reality is just trying to turn a frown upside down.
Oh god…Laura’s IN CALIFORNIA.
That’s it…last straw. I’m moving.
That would be so freaky-wierd if you guys were neighbors! HA!
I would laugh soooooooo hard!
EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW! Now I’m going to have to start looking sideways for women in lesbionic scrubs and cowboy boots!!!
Ick. I think I
Hooves-in-Maw,
Couldn’t the veteranary schooled, board certified, state licensed vet tell that the dog was almost due to have puppies??
If so, I suppose it made no difference to him.
He sounds pretty heartless.
Couldn’t the veteranary schooled, board certified, state licensed vet tell that the dog was almost due to have puppies??
The guy knew.
If so, I suppose it made no difference to him.
He sounds pretty heartless.
He WAS a heartless SOB
The dog was two days away from delivery and the vet didn’t notice that she was pregnant?
The dog was under a general anesthesia like Halothane, and it didn’t sedate the puppies?
Gee, even the fetus in that famous “Hand” photo was totally anesthetized.
You funny…
I was there Laura.
You weren’t.
Doesn’t matter if they were under the effects of anesthesia…they were squirming for their lives.
End of discussion.
And I SAID the vet knew she was pregnant…honestly, try to follow along or I will have to break out my crayon for you.
Only Laura would think that story was funny….
Torture puppies for fun Laura?
Wow Hooves-in-Maw,
That vet clinic sounds much like how abortion clinics are run. Get ’em in and Get’em out as fast as you can and collect money.
Couldn’t the veteranary schooled, board certified, state licensed vet tell that the dog was almost due to have puppies??
Posted by: Sandy at January 7, 2008 3:19 PM
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Gee, even people with no veterinary backgound can see that Hooves is lying.
That vet clinic sounds much like how abortion clinics are run. Get ’em in and Get’em out as fast as you can and collect money.
Great analogy–yes…that’s what it was like.
Laura…if your going to accuse me of lying, why don’t you put on your glasses and read my freaking posts first.
Sheesh.
Laura,
I don’t think Hooves is lying…she came out of the dark…you’re still there.
Only Laura would think that story was funny….
Torture puppies for fun Laura?
Posted by: Hooves-in-Maw at January 7, 2008 3:28 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Where did I say that the story was funny?
I said that YOU were funny – you know – like a clown.
Sooooo….Laura does abortion on animals and supports abortion on humans?
Well, I suppose a rodeo queen would know all about clowns.
RSD,
Yep! As cold-hearted as they come!
Sorry, I meant a near-sighted rodeo queen…
I was not implying that Hooves-in-Maw was lying.
Merely pointing out the fact that the “vet” knew the dog was pregnant and didn’t care or was totally incompetent in his job.
Again, much like the so called “abortionists” that harm maim and kill. You know, the ones you vehemently support.
Thanks Sandy
Sooooo….Laura does abortion on animals and supports abortion on humans?
Posted by: RSD at January 7, 2008 3:36 PM
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Yes.
Abortion is always a better alternative to this:
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n184/absolutdd/Avatars/euthanizedanimals.jpg
Now – as much as you’d like to – don’t shove this picture in to the face of a child, nor parade it in front of someone’s home on CHRISTMAS!
Laura, I just can’t bring myself to believe that photo even bothers you.
You probably see something like that and start wondering what
I’m truly curious…
Are those of you who enjoy coming to this forum and posting snide remarks, personal attacks, crude generalizations, and other forms of rudeness at pro choice poster(which is CERTAINLY not all of you, but AB Laura, heather, Jasper, and Hooves mostly)… are you this rude to pro choicers you know in your real lives, or only when you’re hiding behind a computer screen?
And don’t say you don’t know any, because thats a cop out. More than half the country is pro choice, so you certainly know at least a handful.
Abortion is better than Euthanasia??
It’s the same issue, just different ends of the spectrum.
Amanda…
Obviously you are new here.
…or else you don’t even read Laura’s posts.
She could give lessons in “rude”.
I for one gave up trying to be civil with her….it just makes her even meaner.
I think most would agree that with other PC’ers here I am challenging and assertive, but certainly not rude.
That honor I bestow only upon Laura.
Besides, I think she likes it.
No, Hooves, I’ve actually been around here a whole lot longer than you have.
There are a number of pro life people here I really enjoyed debating with, namely Mary, MK, PIP, and Bethany.
But I feel like there is enough nastieness and negativity and rudeness going on in REAL life that it was silly for me to subject myself to MORE of it on the computer, especially after a few posters (one of whom apologized, several of whom did not) got VERY personal in their banter.
I have several pro life friends (being in Public Health, I tend to end up communicating with people who care deeply about this issue on both sides of the coin) who I’m able to have really fruitful and thoughtful conversations/debates with who don’t feel the need to call people names, stand on people’s lawns, or make judgements about what kind of person they are or what they do with their lives.
In fact – something happened to someone in my life a few months ago that caused me to SERIOUSLY question and consider my stance. But coming back to this forum and reading all of this foolishness and hateful stupidity only reminds me further why I will NEVER associate with the pro life agenda… even if I do feel slightly differently about it than I did before college.
And I don’t see anyone else here being anything but polite to Laura. So if you want to take ME on…let’s rock. But don’t cast your net too wide because nobody else here deserves your accusations….
Amanda,
Show me where I was being hateful to you and not just replying to one of your posts that you disagreed with, OK?
“But coming back to this forum and reading all of this foolishness and hateful stupidity only reminds me further why I will NEVER associate with the pro life agenda”
———
yeah, sure….because it wouldn’t have anything to do with you valuing a baby’s life now, would it?
Hooves,
I think Amanda’s got a touch of the “touch-me-not” syndrome going on today….maybe she’ll feel better later.
(Amanda…this is not hatred, it’s just stating a fact. You can dish it out, but you can’t take it! You are the one who called Heather childish, remember?)
In fact – something happened to someone in my life a few months ago that caused me to SERIOUSLY question and consider my stance. But coming back to this forum and reading all of this foolishness and hateful stupidity only reminds me further why I will NEVER associate with the pro life agenda… even if I do feel slightly differently about it than I did before college.
Posted by: Amanda at January 7, 2008 4:12 PM
That doesn’t make any sense. You feel differently, you questioned your stance, etc… yet you won’t change because of the people here? I’m not condoning rudeness on anyone’s part but your reasoning seems a little off the mark.
You said you know PLers and it sounded like they were nice/friendly and you’ve had good debates with them. To come here and basically say “I’m pro-choice because you’re rude” is just silly.
AB Laura:
Why? It’s not open yet….
Because if these good folks are wasting their time in a neighborhood, they’re not bothering women at abortion clinics in Colorado.
No, Hooves, I’ve actually been around here a whole lot longer than you have.
I am duly impressed.
There are a number of pro life people here I really enjoyed debating with, namely Mary, MK, PIP, and Bethany.
I too enjoy their posts. They are remarkably intelligent and thoughtfull
“yeah, sure….because it wouldn’t have anything to do with you valuing a baby’s life now, would it?”
You just proved my point about making ridiculous judgements and generalizations. Thank you. You have NO CLUE what my experience was, so don’t pretend you know how I feel or value the life of a baby or anyone/anything for that matter, because you don’t.
You calling me ugly, and heather calling me a monster and comparing me to Ted Bundy the other day… thats not hateful?
reality,
OK…gotcha
There’s no one over at the other clinics protesting???
Kristen:
That doesn’t make any sense. You feel differently, you questioned your stance, etc… yet you won’t change because of the people here? I’m not condoning rudeness on anyone’s part but your reasoning seems a little off the mark.
You said you know PLers and it sounded like they were nice/friendly and you’ve had good debates with them. To come here and basically say “I’m pro-choice because you’re rude” is just silly.
She didn’t say she was pro-choice because you’re rude, she said she’s pro-choice because you’re foolish and hateful.
There’s no one over at the other clinics protesting???
Fewer people, I’m sure.
Six of one, half dozen of the other. Foolish and hateful is a matter of opinion, just as rudeness is an opinion. Some think Laura is rude, some think Hooves is rude. Heck, some think both are. To base your values on the wit, or lack thereof, of someone is silly.
“Hooves,
I think Amanda’s got a touch of the “touch-me-not” syndrome going on today….maybe she’ll feel better later.
(Amanda…this is not hatred, it’s just stating a fact. You can dish it out, but you can’t take it! You are the one who called Heather childish, remember?)”
_____________
No, AB Laura, I most certainly DID NOT call heather childish. I made a blanket statement that insulting womens looks, as heather chose to do, IS childish. I will stand by that.
I challenge you to find ONE example of me calling one of you a name, or making a personal attack at your looks, occupation,religion, or beliefs as you have to mine.
Kristen – its a little more complicated than that, and I’d call myself a centrist these days. Its not the ONLY reason I’d never call myself pro life, but its certainly a big part of it (Im not just talking about the people on this board, but in general – protesting at people’s homes being a much more important example).
I’m not rude.
I just type that way.
Amanda,
I SAID you were ugly on the inside…for working, volunteering, interning, whatever, in an abortion clinic. I still stand by what I said, & I’m not sorry if it offended you. It should.
not to mention that YOU were the one stating that YOU were ugly…not me or Heather!
Its not the ONLY reason I’d never call myself pro life, but its certainly a big part of it (Im not just talking about the people on this board, but in general – protesting at people’s homes being a much more important example).
Well, what do you know? Apparently, protesting at people’s homes does have an effect!
Amanda,
BTW, the epitome of “hateful” is dismembering a living child from a woman’s womb…”funny” that type of hatred is just fine with you…
That was called sarcasm Laura. It was a JOKE.
Many of the people who’ve been around here longer than you have seen my picture. Pretty sure it was determined I’m not ugly. Just self-depricating.
And thank you for again proving my point about making judgements when you make the assumption that I’m ugly on the inside based on ONE thing you know about me, without having a damn CLUE how I feel about abortion right now.
Boy if you only knew how wrong you are…
Ahem, Amanda?
Any reply to my hateful/foolish/rude post at 4:24?
Jill lives in Mokena?
Should I have my pro-choice friends contact her? How about the members a NARAL? Should we gather in front of her home? Next Christmas, perhaps?
…it was an invitation to discuss…
That was a joke? Sarcasm? You’re right…I seriously don’t get you at all.
Yeah – most of my reply to you is going to need to be a little more involved… I’ll get to it when I get home from work.
As for your comments about your exchanges with Laura, my question is this: doesn’t it stress you out when you find yourself having such a nasty conversation with someone you’ve never met? I’m not saying its all you and she’s a victim – not at all- what I’m saying is, when I find myself getting heated enough that I start wanting to be mean or insulting, I try to step away – especially when its on a computer, when you really CAN just step away. And thats why I asked that question earler – do you think you would be that rude in REAL LIFE? (that goes for all of you???)
I just think people get so wrapped up in these exchanges they forget they’re talking to an actual person – a person they might otherwise really like and would never think to insult just because you feel very differently about an issue. a person who has dignity and feeling, regardless of their position. And I’d dare say that NO ONE on here knows enough about ANY ONE else to be unequivocally deciding they are a bad person.
Amanda,
I’m not buying into your BS at all, unless of course, you can prove me wrong. I wouldn’t care HOW much people were hateful to me if I were the ONLY one that was pro-life. Abortion disgusts me, and no one has swayed my decision one way or the other. I KNOW how I feel, and I don’t care what happens, I will NEVER be a PRO-ABORT…NEVER!!!!!!
Don’t you want to give her a call?
Initially, I was going to post something on here, but now I’m going to run the other direction. I don’t know if everyone here has the Monday blues or PMS or what, but PC and PL alike are being NASTY.
Come on, loves, snap out of it.
Laura,
please, no posting addresses or telephone numbers
(unless is for somebody in the baby-killing business).
thank-you.
Funny, Jill posts other people’s private addresses and phone numbers on a public forum, yet doesn’t like it when I post HERS.
Why is that?
Yeah – most of my reply to you is going to need to be a little more involved… I’ll get to it when I get home from work.
Well, OK
It’s her website????
She doesn’t kill babies…
Laura, you are sassy today.
Run Erin…
Run
Laura,
please, no posting addresses or telephone numbers
(unless is for somebody in the baby-killing business).
thank-you.
Posted by: jasper at January 7, 2008 5:04 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You dish it out, can’t you take it?
Jill thinks that posting people’s private information is perfectly OK. I’m just returning the favor.
Hey Jasper….if the Superbowl ends up being Colts vs. Pats…care for a wager??
I’ve got a nice, juicy g’miball burning a hole in my pocket!
Amanda, I think you are being overly sensitive. I can be that way too. I have had to toughen up since I have become actively prolife. I have been called a sociopath and a nazi to name a few. I have also been called a c***(not here but in front a clinic that I was saying the rosary at).
Amanda, 4:12p, said: “In fact – something happened to someone in my life a few months ago that caused me to SERIOUSLY question and consider my stance.”
What was that, Amanda?
“What was that, Amanda?”
Workin’ on it, Jill.
Hi Jill.
I hope Sue was aware she was being recorded.
Second, I have to agree with the stance that protesting at homes does nothing to help the pro-life movement, and may actually hurt more than help.
and to think illegal methods are taken by the pro-life movement when they cast stones at the pro-choice movement constantly, saying they do the same. Its the pot calling the kettle black
and to think illegal methods are taken by the pro-life movement when they cast stones at the pro-choice movement constantly, saying they do the same. Its the pot calling the kettle black
Posted by: Dan at January 7, 2008 5:27 PM
Huh? Than sentence didn’t make any sense so I hope it was a typo. If you did mean what you wrote then I can only surmise that you were saying PLers were doing something illegal and I’d like to know what it is you think is illegal.
Is posting someone’s private information on a public forum OK?
I hope Sue was aware she was being recorded.
Posted by: Dan at January 7, 2008 5:27 PM
BTW, it’s perfectly legal to record any conversation with one-party consent. The one part in this case the PLers. I don’t know if she knew she was being recorded or not but they did nothing illegal.
…this is a recording.
Is posting someone’s private information on a public forum OK?
Posted by: Laura at January 7, 2008 5:37 PM
You can find it on white pages. Isn’t the internet in general a public forum? I don’t think anyone hired a PI to find the addresses of the execs. No matter how hard I try I can’t keep my personal info off the internet.
Kristen, inviting or participating in the harassment of an individual or individuals
“The Modern Penal Code section 250.4(MPC) defines harassment as a petty misdemeanor if with purpose is to harass another, he: 1) makes a phone call without a legitimate purpose; or 2) insults, taunts or challenges another in a manner likely to provoke violent or disorderly response; or 3) calls at inconvenient hours or in offensive language; or 4) subjects another to offensive touching; or 5) engages in any other course of alarming conduct serving no legitimate purpose of the actor.”
As for the addresses and phone numbers, that depends. If they are unlisted, it is. If not, its a matter of public record (I believe) and technically legal, though incredibly distasteful.
However, they may be able to make an argument in court of abuse of said information, or argue various other points I’m sure, or argue under rights of publication for the removal of numbers/pictures/addresses/pictures of themselves or their property from websites or magazines.
Kristen, you can have it removed, google allows you to do so, and for white pages you choose to be unlisted, and as for the rest, read privacy policies from websites to see if they are allowed to release your information and to whom.
You CAN keep your personal information off the internet. How much is available is up to you and how much you are willing to fight for it, etc.
No, all parties must be aware they are being recprded. Even on Skype, a free internet calling program, a message must go out to all participants saying they are being recorded.
And colorados laws:
Colo. Rev. Stat.
my bad, misread the law. It does need only one party’s consent. (Ridiculous)Stupid little letter a.
Youd think phone conversations would be considered private information exchanged between two parties.
Here you do need the consent of all parties, it varies.
Assuming that this was all done in CO, it was legal. Ridiculous.
Laura,
My address and phone number have been out in the public for years.
11664 Sundance Trail
Mokena, IL 60448
815-464-0984
Nice zing Jill!
“The Modern Penal Code section 250.4(MPC) defines harassment as a petty misdemeanor if with purpose is to harass another, he: 1) makes a phone call without a legitimate purpose; or 2) insults, taunts or challenges another in a manner likely to provoke violent or disorderly response; or 3) calls at inconvenient hours or in offensive language; or 4) subjects another to offensive touching; or 5) engages in any other course of alarming conduct serving no legitimate purpose of the actor.”
Again Dan, the PLers are doing none of this. Nothing illegal.
And I am unlisted in just about every way I can be. Having a teacher as a husband is the reason I don’t want to be listed. Not because the kids are bad but the parents call at all hours asking about grades, homework, etc…rather than calling school.
I did manage to get it off Google but white pages was a no go…yahoo as well… (Although since we moved they are both out of date.)
No, all parties must be aware they are being recprded. Even on Skype, a free internet calling program, a message must go out to all participants saying they are being recorded.
And colorados laws:
Colo. Rev. Stat.
Dan, just saw your 6:04 post. Disregard my 6:38 post.
Kristen,
See Dan’s 6:04 post..
I didn’t get it when I first read it either, but your example cleared it up….nice!
Kristen,
Disregard 1st part of my 6:42 post.
Hee-hee!
Kristen, I realized my mistake in terms of colorado law, I live in MA and thus am used to the need of consent by both parties, as mandated by state laws.
I then saw the A in CO’s law and made a correction
as for the PL’ers doing none of that, I highly doubt it. I wouldnt be surprised if their are a number of threatening, angry, obscene, or calls at all hours of the night.
I wouldnt be surprised if they joined the ranks of the growing number of people who simply discontinued their home phone.
And either way, if she feels the call was edited/cut to make her seem as responding in a different manner than she was, she could sue for damages etc. But its sumply ridiculous that its come to recording calls and picketing homes of workers who are doing their job. Of course, if all the picketers are good christains as many of them maintain, I;m sure their homeless and begging for sustenance as well.
Ah curses, seems we’re all responding too quickly, lol
Dan, are you a Christian?
…if she feels the call was edited/cut to make her seem as responding in a different manner than she was, she could sue for damages etc.
Posted by: Dan at January 7, 2008 6:45 PM
That doesn’t seem to be the issue. I don’t think she’d hesitate to sue for damages, but she knows what she said. And really, were I her, (perish the thought) I’d be more embarrassed about the ignorance of the statement.
I mean whatever way you feel on the issue it’s obvious that PP DOES perform abortions.
Hooves “Hey Jasper….if the Superbowl ends up being Colts vs. Pats…care for a wager??”
Yes! sure, but it won’t be in the Super bowl, it will be the AFC championship (they’re both in the same conference)
AB Laura, I do believe Jesus Christ is my savior, however I am not Christian in the typical sense, i.e. the Bible is not infallible truth for me, nor do I believe in the authority of the Church or its clergy.
Pats will crush the Colts, or so I hope :D
And I will now say that I sent to each of the 3 e-mails (if they bother reading them anymore) a message of support and a sincere regret that people have chosen to do this to others simply for doing their job.
That’s confusing! but hey, I’m glad that Jesus Christ is your savior!
Do I hear an “Amen”?
lol, Amen
And my religious views would be considered confusing. Its a juxtaposition of various ideas and whatnot. I incorporate various teachings/ideas into them.
Dan,
Regarding the e-mails you sent: there IS more than one job a construction company can have. Why be a part of the building of this? “if you build it, they will come”…why do this? I really don’t understand how a construction company can look at an abortion clinic they built, take a step back, and feel an ounce of pride in their work. I really don’t get it!
Some observations from someone who has been at these Denver protests and witnessed alot of what goes on:
First, the pro-lifers are invariably peaceful. There are occasional shouts, so the neighbors can hear, and there is singing sometimes. But the only people any of us has ever seen get violent in tone, or physically violent, are the neighbors who are so offended by being forced to see or hear what their neighbor is doing that they are willing to get violent. It’s all about what’s in someone’s heart, whether they’ll get violent.
Second, many of the police and sheriffs officers we’ve seen are increasingly sympathetic with the pro-lifers. 1) because we are always peaceful and respectful of the officers, and 2) because these policemen and women hear some of the most outrageous charges made against us — things they know are not true (because the cops are there, watching) and the neighbors who sympathize with the target of the protests will go to enormous lengths to try to get us in trouble. One cop responded to a neighbor “complaint” and walked away laughing because the neighbor claimed a protestor had stepped onto the very corner of their lawn (which was covered in snow so no one could tell where the sidewalk ended) and she wanted him arrested for trespassing. The cops are not necessarily on our side, in terms of beliefs, but they become sympathetic because they come to respect us for our behavior.
What’s more, I believe the police are aware of how potentially violent our opponents are, because a person complaining to the police will be less restrained than someone who might be under suspicion. These homeowners will sometimes tell the police what they intend to do to us if the police don’t arrest us. And the homeowners think they have rights that they don’t have – the police, who know the law, often end up defending us because we have the law on our side.
And though no charges have been filed yet, because it’s just he-said she-said, I can’t believe the police are unaware that two or three pro-abort neighbors have intentionally tried to run over protestors by recklessly speeding by at close range.
Pats will crush the Colts, or so I hope :D
Right on, Dan.
17-0
Doug
greg,
That happens in here in Aurora, too….the reckless speeding by at close range. However, they do it IN FRONT of the police, and the only time the police will pull them over is when they come close to hitting an officer.
Sad :(
Stay safe & God be with you………
Yes! sure, but it won’t be in the Super bowl, it will be the AFC championship (they’re both in the same conference)
DOH! *slaps forehead* I knew that!!
OK…whatcha puttin up?
Doug, hopin for a 19-0 season. Itd be great :D
And greg, speeding and driving wrecklessly could be just that. Ive been nearly hit/run over multiple times in my smalltown because everyone just seems to love speeding, or think its cool, or simply dont pay attention because they could care less. There idiots, but I wouldnt go so far as to say that all of them were doing it intentionally, and im sure only one or two were intending to hit me ;)
Thank you!
And you too, AB Laura! You guys are doing great work out there!
I hope Tom and his Thomas More lawyers can shut that place down! It sounds like you’ve got a great case… now you just nee honorable politicians! :)
Jasper, Dan and elk…
Just remember I am the queen of gloat.
Didn’t let any Pat’s fans forget it last year…
Won’t let any forget it this year…
Laura, businesses do what they have to do to survive and succeed. They have crews there to do jobs they can do, and those crews need a paycheck so they can support themselves and/or their families. The money goes back to the workers for their hours of labor, and then the remains go to the business.
People ask how constructions can build just about anything without feeling opposed to it. The point is is that its their job, and like it or not they have to do their job so they can support themselves.
I’m personally hoping for a Manning Bowl.
greg,
It’s all God!!! He’s definately working in “mysterious ways”! I am so thankful for that! Are you going to watch the live-blogging on Eric’s site for the ZBA hearing tonight?
Nah, we’ll get it. The colts are a good team, but the Pats are chasing history ;).
If the colts get it, Id be so angry/frustrated. No matter what weve done well be remembered as could haves, should haves, etc. The Pats have every reason to be in the superbowl, and should be able to make it and win. But only time will tell.
For nicities I wont talk about Manning ;)
here’s the link:
http://familiesagainstplannedparenthood.org/blog/2008/0107/zba-5/#more-191
(It started 12 minutes ago….)
Dan,
I could be a stripper for more $$ to support myself, too….There’s just some jobs I WON’T take…some are just “selling your soul” if you ask me!
Dan – There may be careless people, but that’s not who I’m talking about. Protestors are frequently the targets of road rage against pedestrians, and it’s well known among us.
Some “near accidents” are understandably accidental, but not when the driver is looking with hatred toward the person he’s almost hitting, as I’ve known to happen at least twice to us in the last month or so.
One neighbor who hates us and tells us all that he wishes we were dead simply backed out of his driveway, and aimed for the side of the street where the protestors and a dog were standing. There was plenty of room on the other side of the street – he was aiming for us, and you could see it in his eyes.
Another person tried to beat up a protestor, and then when he saw a woman was trying to get a camera out of her truck, the man jumped her and tried to break her arm to get the camera away.
These incidents are rare, as things go, and I’m not normally worried when we’re out there. But they happen, and we’re all aware it’s possible to be hurt. Like the 69 year old man Jill reported about the other day, who was almost killed. How’s he doing, by the way?
I just noticed this and feel i should comment.
PL’ers seem to constantly say that PP makes a profit off abortion, but then when it comes into play in Aurora they admit PP is non-profit. If you’re going to say something at least stay consistent.
And Laura, some women do it out of empowerment, and some feel its demeaning. “Selling your soul” once again is subjective, and up to each individual doing the work.
Dan,
I’m in land surveying and I would absolutely refuse to work on a PP. If my employers said do it or else, I
“And Laura, some women do it out of empowerment, and some feel its demeaning. “Selling your soul” once again is subjective, and up to each individual doing the work.”
Anybody interested in the opinion of a former stripper? Or do you have it all figured out Dan?
greg,
As I stood (or sat!) on the sidewalk outside of PP Aurora, I always told people there how I could sense Angels filling up that sidewalk – protecting us second by second….the Holy Spirit was DEFINATELY present….fear no evil, greg!!! The Lord is WITH YOU!
Dan said, “PL’ers seem to constantly say that PP makes a profit off abortion, but then when it comes into play in Aurora they admit PP is non-profit. If you’re going to say something at least stay consistent.”
exactly our point!!! Wierd, isn’t it??? We don’t say PP is non-profit, they do! Are they a not for profit organization? yes! Do they make a profit? yes! It is very odd, no?
Maw, then you lose your job, your choice. However, most would rather have a consistent income and attempt to support themselves rather than rely on the safety nets.
As for the Pats, everyone DOES do it, just from the stands now. I mean, come on, Bellichech is a smart guy, if he understood it, he wouldnt have done it, it was obvious what was being done.
Second, the tapes were taken at the very beginning of the first quarter of the first game, and we STILL have beat every team we have faced since, achieving an unheard of 16-0 season. We’ve been the closest watched team in the NFL, and everyone’s been after us since day one. The only time that “Spygate” ever seems to come up anymore is when cited by colts fans, such as yourself, or when the jets come to town.
No, I didnt say hes a nice guy, but so is brady, but brady doesnt resort to doing every commercial that comes his way ;)
Justify Brotha, Justify….
Dan said, “Maw, then you lose your job, your choice. However, most would rather have a consistent income and attempt to support themselves rather than rely on the safety nets.”
Dan, I think everyone has a line somewhere that they won’t cross. If they don’t, they’re sociopaths!
Maw, like i said, each experience is subjective. Some regret it, some hated doing it, some love it, some do it as long as they can.
Laura, I was pointing out your sides inconsistencies, not our own. PP is a non-profit organization according to government standards, their financial records are investigates as thoroughly as any other, say the YMCA or JCC.
However, most would rather have a consistent income and attempt to support themselves
Unless your Peyton Manning….then you better just pass it up, ’cause the rules don’t apply to you.
Laura, many people would do anything for survival or for their family.
Ask any mother if they had to kill for their children, would they, and 999 times out of 1000 the answer is yes.
Simply put, any line can be crossed depending on the situation
Amen ABL.
Dan, if you have a giant styrofoam baseball bat, feel free to beat me upside the head.
I must have been thinking in 1972 terms, Dolphins, etc. Shorter season, and Frank Shorter in the Olympic marathon that year I think.
Yes Sir, 19-0 let’s go.
PL’ers seem to constantly say that PP makes a profit off abortion, but then when it comes into play in Aurora they admit PP is non-profit. If you’re going to say something at least stay consistent.
Posted by: Dan at January 7, 2008 7:17 PM
No Dan, PP is saying they are non-profit. Not us. PP is legally set up as a non-profit organization yet during the zoning process THEY said they were a FOR PROFIT company opening a FOR PROFIT medical clinic.
The codes undeniably state that IF the building is used for a NON-PROFIT organization (in this particular area) A, B, and C, must be done. BUT A, B, and C, weren’t done because PP was deceitful.
This has nothing to do with what PLers call them (Non or For profit) and everything to do with what THEY stated on their permit applications.
And HELLO! They do make a HUGE profit off abortion. Haven’t you seen their books? I’d be MORE than happy to re-classify them as for-profit but then that would mean they’d have to give up the 300 MILLION they get from the government. It’s pretty unlikely for them to volunteer that.
Maw, like i said, each experience is subjective. Some regret it, some hated doing it, some love it, some do it as long as they can.
Which, of course, makes you an expert on the subject….based on your extensive experience I suppose.
Nothing I like more than a man who speaks for a woman
Unless you’re Peyton Manning….then you better just pass it up
Hooves, tell me this was a pun.
Doug
Maw, you klnow as well as i do sports stars in general have more than enough to support themselves and their families, they make extra for their ability to throw a ball, catch a ball, kick one, hit it, etc.
You wont hear me argue athletes are underpaid, or dont make enough money to support themselves.
Construction crew depend on the hours they work, more hours means more money, means a better ability to support themselves/families. Construction work is difficult, and can be low paying, (depending on the crew, the location of the crew, the job itself, etc )
Dan said, “Laura, I was pointing out your sides inconsistencies, not our own. PP is a non-profit organization according to government standards, their financial records are investigates as thoroughly as any other, say the YMCA or JCC.”
Our inconsistencies??? I don’t understand. We agree that PP is non-profit by government standards, and also makes a profit. Did anyone happen to say that their profit is illegal or unaccounted for? NO…..It’s all in their records, public info….
I guess I’m just not understanding how you think “our side” is being inconsistent?
Maw, Im not speaking FOR anyone, im telling you each experience is different, which is undeniable. Your experience is your experience, just as any other persons experience is their own experience. Im not speaking for you or anyone else, but given probability, each view is entirely possible, and in this case stories on many (if not all) of these perspectives have been done.
Oh please Dan…I you can do better than dragging out another double standard…
I tire of this.
Nite all.
Dan said, “Simply put, any line can be crossed depending on the situation”
I guess that’s where we seperate the “real men” from the “boys”…..
Ask any mother if they had to kill for their children, would they, and 999 times out of 1000 the answer is yes.
Simply put, any line can be crossed depending on the situation
Posted by: Dan at January 7, 2008 7:29 PM
Um, I don’t know any mother who would kill for her children unless it was self-defense, which is perfectly permissable. If YOU know any I’d suggest staying away from them.
Laura, if they make a profit, they could lose the non-profit status and protection provided by such.
Therefore if Planned Parenthood itself (not another organization as you are referencing here) were for profit, they would lose that money/protection. Thats for the government to investigate/evaluate, not citizens.
Dan said, “Maw, Im not speaking FOR anyone, im telling you each experience is different, which is undeniable. Your experience is your experience, just as any other persons experience is their own experience. Im not speaking for you or anyone else, but given probability, each view is entirely possible, and in this case stories on many (if not all) of these perspectives have been done.”
————-
DAN…WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH DOUG?!?!?!?!?!?
ABL–ROTFLMAO!!
(Now really..gotta go!)
Kristen, self defense is still crossing that line though, killing another human being. As does killing another in an act of war, or to protect others.
Laura, what is this referencing, I havent been reading around here too much lately
Laura, I was pointing out your sides inconsistencies, not our own. PP is a non-profit organization according to government standards, their financial records are investigates as thoroughly as any other, say the YMCA or JCC.
Posted by: Dan at January 7, 2008 7:26 PM
Dan, you seem like you think the financials of PP are a matter of opinion. They are not. PP is listed as non-profit, yet their books show they make a profit. We are showing the “two-faced” nature of their organization.
I would like them to choose. For-profit? GREAT! Give up the 300 MILLION from the government. Non-Profit? GREAT! Close down the mill in Aurora that wasn’t permitted as a non-profit building! Win-Win!!! Yahoo!
Dan,
Have you been following the PP saga from the beginning?
And yes, I was referencing Planned Parenthood (PP) as a not-for-profit that makes a profit. It’s public record, and has been cited here many times. Not a mystery…The problem (one of them, at least) is the zoning issue that Kristen mentioned.
Dan,
That just sounded EXACTLY how Doug would have written that response. We like Doug, BTW!
Kristen, self defense is still crossing that line though, killing another human being. As does killing another in an act of war, or to protect others.
Posted by: Dan at January 7, 2008 7:40 PM
Dan, Dan, Dan…now please don’t tell me you’re that naive or obtuse that you really believe that tripe…
Kristen, I said the government should investigate the matter and either find fault and deliver an ultimatum, or find PP as operating under the law. Citizens shouldnt be the ones investigating here, it should be the federal government.
Bye, Hooves!!!
Ah, ok.
as for the PP saga, I did read about the front organization, etc etc. The zoning board will be deciding that soon, if they havent by the time i post this response
Kristen, according to those Christians who follow the “thou shalt not KILL” translation of the ten commandments, there should be no difference between any of those things. Killing is killing. I dont believe it, but there are those that do, and for them the line does exist either way.
Bye Maw!
and Laura, enough people here seem to like me too, Doug’s not the only liked pro-choicer here ;)
Posted by: Dan at January 7, 2008 7:44 PM
What the zoning in Aurora? The Feds don’t normally get involved in State matters, let-alone City matters. But one item was tried before the Federal court in Chicago and the judge found in favor of our side. Then then god, oops, the mayor decided to overrule the role of the zoning board and is again trying to tonight.
If you mean the non/for profit. I’d like them to, but I don’t think any citizens are investigating their status anyway…
Dan,
They are!
Kristen, I was reffering to the Fed gov investigating as to whether PP is a for profit or non profit organization.
Dan,
I like you…it’s nice to have a civilized conversation with a PC’er…I don’t “connect” with many…I just don’t get them. You don’t seem condescending to me & I hope I don’t to you either.
Nah, everythings fine in terms of tone, most of the time. Everyone slips up, Im sure I do too sometimes.
I still think that everyones reaction when I first revealed my age was pretty funny though.
I think Im one of the youngest, if not the youngest, preson here.
Of course, that plus my relatively open mind gives everyone false hope I could be reconverted ; )
Dan,
okay, I only came here in September of this year, so I must have “missed” you!
How old?
Reconverted?
lol.
I’m 18 come the end of April.
And I was pro-life until about half-way through my freshmen year of high school, and many here, if not all, know that prior bit of history.
Amanda,
With all due respect, I understand you want to encourage respectful debate here, but it has been my experiece that you tend to want to police the PLers and issue tickets to us for comments you consider out of line, when in fact they are many times initated by comments PCers make. You tend to have a blind eye when it comes comments made by PCers. I have been called a batty old shrew, ignorant, stupid, crazy, etc…
Where were you when those names were thrown at me? You actually stood up for Les at one time after she threw several ridiculous personal insults my way and then went on to scold me for responding to her in a very negative way.
Laura makes me want to pull my hair out and run away with scissors when I read her disprespectful spew. She as well as Sally have made comments to people that are so offensive and personally hurtful to women posting on this site, it enrages me.
With that said, you can’t honestly blame the PLers on this site for you having a possible change of stance crisis moment. This issue goes waaaaaayyyyyy deeper than that. I am absolutely curious about your experience and hope that you will share your thoughts with everyone.
I think you are just looking for a reason to stay the PC course and are afraid you are having a legitimate change of heart so you made an easy excuse.
Per Dan:
PL’ers seem to constantly say that PP makes a profit off abortion, but then when it comes into play in Aurora they admit PP is non-profit. If you’re going to say something at least stay consistent.
Dan,
You are majorly confused. PP is the one who releases their P&L statements and make it very clear to everyone they make oodles of money.
PP claims to be non-profit. They should stay consistent.
Sandy, as I have said already, if this is the case the Federal government should already be investigating whether PP is truly a non-profit organization.
Thanks for the response, Dan…other “older” PC’ers should take lessons from you.
You’re all right…(except for the PC part!)
:)
Dan,
You are majorly confused.
Posted by: Sandy at January 7, 2008 8:05 PM
Unfortunately this isn’t the only thing he’s confused about. He admits that he was pro-life until mid-Freshmen year. Ah yes, I remember those days – I was once PC too. Oddly enough (really not so oddly) in high school when I thought I knew it all, as so many kids do.
Then I went to college and had all the liberal teachers fill my head with trite sound bites. Then in my early twenties I finally grew a brain. I can only hope the same for Dan.
Kristen, I dont see that happening anytime soon, if at all. I am in agreement with the PC side, and dont see anything swaying that decision unless more technological advances are made.
Ive got both sides in my family, though it seems to be dominated by conservatives overall. My mom is centrist, but does lean a slight bit to the left, my father is conservative, and my grandparents/aunt/uncle are, or seem to be, a part of the far right overall.
So, I essentially could get into arguments with anyone in my family. I avoid politics and religion at all cost at family events, but my dad and my mom and i will have some political banter once in awhile. We make each other think ; )
Dan,
Who knows? There are seeds and there are weeds. As you “grow”, you’ll find out which is which.
With Jesus on your side, I’ll bet you flourish!
We’ll see.
Im thinking of attending law school after my undergrad degree, working as a lawyer for a bit, and then maybe if im lucky enough, and feel i could actually make a difference, maybe, MAYBE I’ll run for a government position, whether it be local, state, or national.
Republican?
Actually, I see you more as an independent!
Nah, most likely Ill be the dreaded Democrat ; ). Even now, most democrats arent as liberal as some of my stances are, but on others I am more conservative, -ish, so who knows. But most likely Democrat or, yes, maybe an Independent.
Hooves –
My neighbor at the house I grew up in and his partner of 7 years, now husband (I LOVE Massachusetts!!), adopted a baby this Fall after supporting the mother through her pregnancy.
She was a 19 year old stripper who was living with 3 other strippers and had planned on getting an abortion when her mother offered to let her move home and make her car payments for her.
This girl had NO interest whatsoever in her pregnancy, and only went to her prenatal visits because thats how she got money from Randy and Tom. She gave birth to a healthy baby boy, had no interest in seeing him, or taking advantage of the offer of an open adoption with Randy and Tom offered. She just wanted it OUT and GONE.
Meanwhile Randy and Tom spent the first week just bursting in to tears of joy, taking 89384934793343 pictures, and just being the two most loving happy parents I’ve ever seen in my life.
I just thought about the idea that a girl who was THAT uninterested in her pregnancy, and her own health could still manage to turn her circumstance in to something that completed the lives of two other people who couldn’t have their own children…that it should at least be considered as an option more than it is. The problem is that Randy and Tom have a lot of money – and a lot of would-be adoptive couples do not, and therefore lack the resources to do what they did. All the same, I just wish that more girls would look in to a private adoption if finances and/or health insurance that money and/or housing is an issue. Rather than putting so much emphasis on abortion OR keeping the baby – I wish we could put more focus and attention to improving access to adoptions.
It comes down to the fact that I would be more than willing to do the same kind of work I did as an intern for PP for a CPC that focused on adoptions, but then I am reminded of how often pro-life and virulent homophobia (as is often on display here in Jill’s posts) go hand in hand. To me, thats just contradictory and ironic in a really really sad way. The hatred and fear that are cast upon gay couples obviously reduces the number of couples who would be THRILLED to support a woman through an unwanted pregnancy in order to adopt her child.
And then theres the pundits and extremists who think its OK to protest outside of people’s homes, threaten practitioners, slash tires, tell me Jesus hates me, call me a monster and compare me to a serial killer because of my opinions, and call girls whores, murderers, and other foolishness. This makes it COMPLETELY impossible for me to identify with the pro life agenda.
So for now I guess I’m just somewhere between, but leaning towards pro choice, as I will always believe that abortion should be an option for victims of rape and incest and women who are completely incapable of getting through a pregnancy (homeless, addicted to drugs, etc). But now more than before, I firmly believe it should be the absolute last resort, not the first thing that comes to mind. I just wish extremists on both sides ( I see Jill the EXACT same way I see someone like Cecile Whatsherface – SO invested in her agenda that she’s completely lost sight of ACTUALLY helping women) would stop fighting over stupidity like zoning laws and construction sites, take off their gloves, and spend more time helping the individuals who need it. It is SO possible for both sides to find common ground when helping women on a case-by-case basis… I’ve witnessed it with my own eyes – but thats awfully hard to do when you need to duck nasty insults or try to sympathize with the views someone who thinks its okay to protest at someone’s home on Christmas day.
Well, may God bless you in anything you choose to do!
I wish I would have had big goals like you when I was your age. Oh well….live & learn.
Heh, big goals could lead to big regrets or mistakes, but lets see what happens years from now.
Amanda,
Do what YOU think is right & will be fufilling to YOU…If you’re being led to help others through adoption, then do it! Maybe your outlook and experiences could help PL’ers that feel that way. You could be like the “bridge over troubled waters”….It may be a whole new movement in itself? Who knows?
My point, is that you really shouldn’t care so much about other people’s opinions. That’s what they are…opinions. I hope that you know who you are…I believe you do. I truly believe that you can be a HUGE influence to both sides.
Dan said, “Heh, big goals could lead to big regrets or mistakes, but lets see what happens years from now.”
Yes, they could….but you won’t know unless you give it all you’ve got…you can’t do any better than that! (it’s better than the flipside, too!)
Now – as much as you’d like to – don’t shove this picture in to the face of a child, nor parade it in front of someone’s home on CHRISTMAS!
Posted by: Laura at January 7, 2008 3:55 PM—————— Why not? PETA does it. What a great idea!
Amanda,
I know that was directed to Hooves, but she left for the night…I had to respond because I felt “moved” to.
BTW…I never protested outside of a person’s home, threatened any practitioners, slashed any tires, told ANYONE that Jesus hates them, compared you to a serial killer because of your opinions, or called girls whores.
Define homophobia, because I don’t think it means a “fear” of LGBT’s…does it?
HEATHER!!!
I missed you today…how did your foot surgery go?
Laura, it is a fear. Fear, hatred, etc of members of the LGBT community.
And on that note, I need to try out this thing called “sleep,” it just sounds like fun, and that it could do me some good.
gnight all
goodnight, Dan..
BTW, then I’m not a homophobe, unless I fall in the “etc.” category, but not sure what that entails!
Laura –
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. The problem is that, opinion or not, I could never support an organization that did not support gay couples as adoptive parents, and unfortunately like I said, it seems like most pro life organizations are also opposed to gay rights.
a phobia is an irrational fear – which, just due to human nature, is often displayed as hatred. For example, aracnaphobia, made famous by the movie – is a fear of spiders…and you will often hear people say things like “eww i HATE spiders!!!”. Homophobia is the same irrational fear, only directed at the LGBT community.
AB, sorry. I was up at the top post. It went fine. Thank you for asking. I’m feeling pretty good. Percocet heaven, ya know:]
Amanda, I would like to take this opportunity to clear the air. I did not say that YOU were ugly. I think that people who agree with abortion have ugly souls. I did say that Hillary is ugly. I loathe her. I HATE spiders too!
FTR, I am not homophobic. I have several gay friends. One of them is HIV+. Heck, who do you think nursed him back to health when he once fell ill? Mwa.
Amanda,
Yep! I am an arachnophobic! I hate spiders. I’m also PPaphobic. I hate Planned Parenthood. Homophobia? Nope, not I. I don’t understand it, agree with it or condone it, though. Jill had a story on some fair in California that really had me in an uproar, though! But if someone needed my help, and I knew they were LGBT, I’d still help them in a heartbeat!
I never really thought too much about the adoption issue with them, so I really can’t say how I’d feel about that. I do, however, understand how passionately you feel about it because you have two dear friends who adopted, and you were able to see it with your own eyes.
Like I said, I think it would be a good thing for you to follow your heart. Maybe you could be an advocate for gay adoptions?
Sandy:
You are majorly confused. PP is the one who releases their P&L statements and make it very clear to everyone they make oodles of money.
PP claims to be non-profit. They should stay consistent.
Non profit does not mean operating at a loss. If churches do not operate with a profit, they go out of business. Surely you know that.
And I was pro-life until about half-way through my freshmen year of high school, and many here, if not all, know that prior bit of history.
I don’t, Dan, care to share? Don’t worry..I’m not like Laura. And you know which Laura I’m talking about.
dan, that doesn’t add up for me. Not unless someone close to you aborted. Otherwise, you probably weren’t very pro life to begin with.
Youd think phone conversations would be considered private information exchanged between two parties.
Here you do need the consent of all parties, it varies.
Assuming that this was all done in CO, it was legal. Ridiculous.
Posted by: Dan at January 7, 2008 6:04 PM
It is not ridiculous. When you call someone and they have an answering machine and it picks up before they reach the phone, you are being recorded.
Check out
http://www.rcfp.org/taping/
Also, why should anyone get to hide from the truth of what they have said?
I mean if you really said it, then hey, face the music.
Any pro-life Professional Engineers and Architects should refuse to work on any project associated with the Weitz Company until they cease and desist from constructing this abortatoreum.
Hisman, you’re right.
Amanda,
Thanks for sharing your story. One of my best friends in the world is gay. My husband and I love and support him and were thrilled when he finally came out and could live his life free from what he called a pack of lies and deceit.
Our friend is the first person even above our own family who we both feel we would give our children to if we came to an untimely fate.
He treats our children like they are his own.
PP has NEVER focused on adoption as an option and you align yourself with their organization. You should look at this as an opportunity to make change and focus on adoption. You could start fundraising for families who want to adopt but can’t afford it.
I think it is sad and immoral that it costs gobs of money just to adopt a child. It’s like paying for an organ you need.
Hi there, SANDY!!!!!!
Hi Heather!
How are you?? I gather you had foot surgery?
What the heck happened??
I have been absent for quite awhile but finally found some time to check in yesterday.
Sandy, me too. I took a 2 week break. I had a bunion fixed. I’m in a GIANT shoe. I missed ya!
“Laura,
You PC’ers will be lucky to get 10 people to go to ANY protest! Nice pipedream, though!”
Maybe it’s because we have actual lives to live? I mean if these people are spending all their time protesting then when do they work? They obviously must be rich and therefore can afford to have as many children as they want, and wouldn’t know what it’s like to not be able to provide for a child.
Plus if this is a peaceful protest then you wouldn’t have any problem with a group of guys in white hoods holding a noose and a burning cross outside of an African Americans house? As lond as they don’t step on their lawn.
Pro-lifers have jobs, Jess…instead of spending their free time catering to their self-centered wants, they choose to use their free time to defend the sanctity of life for the most innocent.
And yes, I would have a MAJOR problem “with a group of guys in white hoods holding a noose and a burning cross outside of an African Americans house?”
Same reasoning, Jess…I like to defend the sanctity of life for the innocent.
See Jess,
pro-lifers are not selfish like you. They think of other causes besides themselves and are willing to donate their time.
For the record, there is a difference between believing that homosexual behavior is unhealthy and hating the “Person”…
I believe gluttony is a sin, but would never look down on somebody struggling with a weight problem. I wouldn’t judge them, refuse to have them as a friend, point fingers at them or treat them in anyway differently than I would treat anyone else.
But I still recognize that eating to the point of morbid obesity is not a “good” thing.
Heavens, if I only “hung around” with like minded thinkers and people who committed “No sins”, I’d be awfully lonely…not to mention guilty of the greatest sin of all…neglecting to love my neighbor.
Plus if this is a peaceful protest then you wouldn’t have any problem with a group of guys in white hoods holding a noose and a burning cross outside of an African Americans house? As lond as they don’t step on their lawn.
What ARE you smoking? Comparing THAT and what pro-lifers do is just ludicrous. They’re trying to incite violence with the noose and burning cross. That’s the difference. We aren’t trying to incite violence, just make people aware of the horror of abortion.
Yes Jasper, I am selfish because I want to live my life to it’s fullest potential. God gave me this world and I’ll be damed if I don’t enjoy it.
“And yes, I would have a MAJOR problem “with a group of guys in white hoods holding a noose and a burning cross outside of an African Americans house?”
Same reasoning, Jess…I like to defend the sanctity of life for the innocent.”
What about every single other person in that neighborhood who had nothing to do the building of the clinic? Or are they guilty for living near them? For being his children?
“Ok Kids you can be born but if your parent is a pro-choicer we’re gonna make your life hell!”
“They’re trying to incite violence with the noose and burning cross.”
And some idiots think all African Americans are violent drug dealers who will ruin their neighborhoods and kill their kids. You think pro-choicers are ruining your neighborhoods and killing your children. If you can protest they can protest. You shouldn’t protest though, and neither should they. It’s only hurting you.
Hippie, an answering machine notifies you you are being recorded, thus the greeting message, or prompt asking to leave a message, there is knowledge you are being recorded.
And if any of you are interested, I received an email back from Gary Meggison, senior Vp of the company thanking me for the email and support.
Dan,
Wow! Did he offer you a job, too?
No he did not, lol.
Im actually amazed he read the email at all, I probably would have hit select all and delete unless it was a known business contact, etc.
Dan said, “Maw, Im not speaking FOR anyone, im telling you each experience is different, which is undeniable. Your experience is your experience, just as any other persons experience is their own experience. Im not speaking for you or anyone else, but given probability, each view is entirely possible, and in this case stories on many (if not all) of these perspectives have been done.”
————-
AB Laura: DAN…WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH DOUG?!?!?!?!?!?
Ha! ^5 (High-Five) Laura.
Did he separate me from the boys?
Dan: Maw, Im not speaking FOR anyone, im telling you each experience is different, which is undeniable. Your experience is your experience, just as any other persons experience is their own experience. Im not speaking for you or anyone else, but given probability, each view is entirely possible, and in this case stories on many (if not all) of these perspectives have been done.
AB Laura: Dan, That just sounded EXACTLY how Doug would have written that response. We like Doug, BTW!
Thank you, Laura. I do appreciate your ability to differentiate the argument from the person.
I also appreciate you comparing me to Dan, because he is exactly right.
Dan, didn’t take Hooves’ bait – he responded rationally and logically. He wasn’t claiming to be an “expert” nor did he say he could “speak for women.”
Dan: Simply put, any line can be crossed depending on the situation
Exactly right, again. In a given situation, it may be between “the lesser of two evils.” It may be a line that would not be crossed, ever, in most lifetimes. Yet case-by-case it may certainly be seen as the best thing, nevertheless.
Doug
Doug,
I believe that crossing the line is always a crapshoot….you never really know what’s on the other side, you just know that you’ve always avoided it & now you’re going for it….
Laura, as long as the slow traffic stays in the slow lanes then I’m cool with it.