A little pregnant
On February 8 ABC News and 20/20 ran the story of 2’9″ Christianne Ray, 6’4″ Jeremy Bowden, and their baby Krysten Elise. According to ABC, Christianne is likely the shortest mother in the world. Here’s a video clip taken when Christianne was pregnant:
According to ABC, Christianne considered abortion and was counseled strongly to abort:
When Ray found out she was pregnant, she felt conflicted, and scared.
“I kinda was like, ‘Oh, I should get an abortion, I don’t know what I should do, I’m too young for this, I’m too short for this. I don’t know if I can carry this baby. I don’t know what Jeremy’s gonna think, I don’t know if Jeremy’s gonna leave me.’ Well, actually, I didn’t think Jeremy would leave me but I didn’t know what Jeremy was gonna think,” she said….
The first obstetrician Ray visited strongly recommended an abortion, and said that carrying the baby could kill her.
Ray said she and Bowden cried for about an hour. Eventually, she decided that if there was any question as to whether or not she truly wanted an abortion she wouldn’t go through with it.
Ray found a new doctor….
The pregnancy went well, and they planned a C-section one month early.
On April 24, Krysten Elise was born. Bowden was elated upon seeing his daughter for the first time….
“I’ve never seen his face lit up so much,” Ray said.
We now know Krysten is also a dwarf. At 9 months old, she “is only the length of a newborn.”
This little girl is truly lucky to be alive. Other parents would have aborted her for that. How awkward it would have been had Krysten been diagnosed as a dwarf en utero with the ensuing suggestion to her mother that she abort for the imperfection.
Christianne and Jeremy plan to marry this summer.
[HT: moderator Bethany]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
“Other parents would have aborted her for that. How awkward it would have been had Krysten been diagnosed as a dwarf en utero with the ensuing suggestion to her mother that she abort for the imperfection.”
I’m guessing she would have found another doctor… again…
Can they perform a test to see if a child will be a dwarf.
Opps that was suppose to be a question mark.
JM, I expect they can check amniotic fluid, but I can’t say for sure. They do measure limbs on ultrasound and predict.
We now know is also a dwarf. At 9 months old, she “is only the length of a newborn.”
This little girl is truly lucky to be alive. Other parents would have aborted her for that. How awkward it would have been had Krysten been diagnosed as a dwarf en utero with the ensuing suggestion to her mother that she abort for the imperfection.
Christianne and Jeremy plan to marry this summer.
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You can speculate about what others may or may not choose until the cows come home. Your speculations have nothing to do with the story.
If you wish to discuss dwarfism, some types can guarantee stillbirth or very early demise. It may not be a woman’s wish to risk future successful gestations by gestating one that is doomed. There is a mighty big difference from imperfection and the inability to live at all.
How do you suggest to a little person that she should abort her baby because she is a little person?!!
Sweet story. I watched the video of the wedding dress fitting. What a sweet couple!
Sally,
Have you ever watched the TV show about the family of “little people” called “Meet the Roloffs? They are the happiest, nicest, most fun-loving family you’ll see on TV.
With that in mind, how can you suggest that a woman may want to forfeit this child and wait for a “successful pregnancy” in the future?
Pregnancies are a gift from God, and we have absolutely NO WAY of knowing how many children God has in mind for us, when they will be born, or how long they will live. Once born, children defy the odds every day.
Being pregnant isn’t like riding the bus. If you miss one, you can’t just say “oh well, there will always be another one”. God only gives us so many chances.
You can speculate about what others may or may not choose until the cows come home. Your speculations have nothing to do with the story.
If you wish to discuss dwarfism, some types can guarantee stillbirth or very early demise. It may not be a woman’s wish to risk future successful gestations by gestating one that is doomed. There is a mighty big difference from imperfection and the inability to live at all.
Posted by: Sally at February 20, 2008 6:52 PM
Your speculations have nothing to do with the story either. This baby’s life was not “doomed”, (obviously).
I have a genetic disease that can be transmitted to my child. It scares me that when I have kids they have a chance of getting the disease. I don’t think they can test for it. Not that it would matter anyway because I wouldn’t abort its just scary to think about.
How awkward it would have been had Krysten been diagnosed as a dwarf en utero with the ensuing suggestion to her mother that she abort for the imperfection.
Would a doctor suggest that, really?
I’ll go out on a limb here. Yes.
JM –
Yes, you can test for dwarfism in utero – at specific types of dwarfism like Achondroplasia. I think it can be detected by ultrasound in the early 2nd trimester. It is an abnormality of the cartlige which can be detected. A DNA test can also detect dwarfism because it is a genetic mutated gene. If my memory is right, most dwarfism is passed to the baby through the father’s genes.
Dwarfism is another genetic disorder that is targeted for abortion. Since it is even more uncommon than Down Sydrome we don’t hear about it as often. Downs occurs in 1 out of 800 pregnancies and Achondroplasia is about 1 in every 25,000 pregnancies. (This is going by memory, so give or take 1,000) ;-)
Dwarfism is on the “list” of gross fetal deformity because some babies with Achondroplasia may have two copies of the mutated gene which is usually fatal right before or shortly after birth. I’m not sure if this can be distinguished from a baby with only one copy of the mutated gene. Still trying to figure that one out.
Yes, I’m a geek. That is the only way I can explain why I actually know all that.
They can tell from ultrasounds if the limbs are proportional for an average sized person or if they are not. From there, they would consider whether this may be caused by dwarfism or possibly Downs or another physical challenge.
Sally,
Have you ever watched the TV show about the family of “little people” called “Meet the Roloffs? They are the happiest, nicest, most fun-loving family you’ll see on TV.
With that in mind, how can you suggest that a woman may want to forfeit this child and wait for a “successful pregnancy” in the future?
Pregnancies are a gift from God, and we have absolutely NO WAY of knowing how many children God has in mind for us, when they will be born, or how long they will live. Once born, children defy the odds every day.
Being pregnant isn’t like riding the bus. If you miss one, you can’t just say “oh well, there will always be another one”. God only gives us so many chances.
Posted by: Janet at February 20, 2008 7:23 PM
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I’ve watched the show. Have you watched the show and paid attention? Of course not.
Being a dualist, you would have to conclude that all pregnancies come from god and only an evil woman would miscarry. Much more evil than God to abort.
Have you ever watched the TV show about the family of “little people” called “Meet the Roloffs? They are the happiest, nicest, most fun-loving family you’ll see on TV.
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Matt Roloff has had dozens of surgeries and a lifetime of crippling chronic pain. He and his wife Amy gave that gift to their son Zach, who also seems to have chronic pain and surgeries all the time.
Life’s hard enough without a handicap. I would never knowingly give one to someone else. Suffering is bad.
@Valerie: Achondroplasia is an autosomal dominant disorder. There are two alleles, the recessive “Normal” allele and the dominant “Dwarf” allele. Two copies of the recessive “Normal” allele is the condition that people without dwarfism have. Having two copies of the “Dwarf” allele is a fatal condition, therefore anybody with the dwarf condition is heterozygous…has one “Dwarf” allele and one “Normal” allele.
However, not all people that have the “Dwarf” allele and the “Normal” allele (heterozygous condition) actually display the dwarf phenotype. This is called incomplete penetrance and these people may have a normal phenotype yet still carry the “Dwarf” allele, and those people are called “carriers”.
Yay for genetics class!
We all suffer in one way or another, FF.
One’s outlook on it is what will make or break a person.
FF 8:53PM
The Roloffs also have 3 normal size children and the Roloffs were both the children of normal size parents. Perhaps the best judges of their quality of life is the Roloffs themselves, and Christianne herself, who is also the child of normal sized parents. Maybe we should ask challenged people about the quality of their lives instead of assuming that we know what they think and feel.
“Maybe we should ask challenged people about the quality of their lives instead of assuming that we know what they think and feel.”
I agree.
The “quality of life” argument is, and always has been, bunk. Life is quality no matter what; it has inherent quality and dignity no matter what you choose to assign it.
Sally, I don’t think you know what dualism is.
How awkward it would have been had Krysten been diagnosed as a dwarf en utero with the ensuing suggestion to her mother that she abort for the imperfection.
“Would a doctor suggest that, really?”
Carla: I’ll go out on a limb here. Yes.
Carla, I don’t know – if I was a doctor, and if the mother was a dwarf, would I “suggest” that an abortion he had because the baby was going to be a dwarf? I sure do not think so….
My oldest sister has PKU. Had my parents aborted her they would have missed one heck of a kid who turned out to be the best sister on the planet. The other 4 siblings also had a 25% chance of having PKU but none of us did.
“Maybe we should ask challenged people about the quality of their lives instead of assuming that we know what they think and feel.”
I agree.
Posted by: JM at February 20, 2008 9:41 PM
My dad made artificial limbs for both amputees and people born without their arms and/or legs. I worked with him for several years. I never met a person born that way who had any issues with their handicap. It’s the way it is and they got along just fine. 80% of the amputees also were fine and got along well. Then there was that 20% of amputees that thought life was a bitch and they got a raw deal. They were mean and hateful to everyone. Personally I think THOSE people would have aborted babies with a handicap. Most people realize that you can have a full and happy life regardless of what others “perceive” as a limitation.
Ari-Chan, are you Rae? If so, I missed it if you gave a reason for the change….?
Great posts by you and Valerie!
Doug
Doug,
The doctor she saw suggested an abortion to begin with, because he said it might kill her.
Club foot, cleft palate, Down Syndrome, boy, girl, little person…where does it end?
So, if you were a doctor you wouldn’t encourage her to have an abortion if the baby were a little person like her momma?
Will I ever figure Doug out? :)
“Ari-Chan, are you Rae? If so, I missed it if you gave a reason for the change….?”
Nope, I’m not “Rae”.
But thank you, I’m glad you enjoyed my post.
Mary, 9:25:
Amen.
Matt Roloff has had dozens of surgeries and a lifetime of crippling chronic pain. He and his wife Amy gave that gift to their son Zach, who also seems to have chronic pain and surgeries all the time.
Life’s hard enough without a handicap. I would never knowingly give one to someone else. Suffering is bad.
Posted by: FetusFascist at February 20, 2008 8:53 PM
Suffering is a part of life. From a religious standpoint, one might say we all have our “crosses” to bear. No one escapes it. Who are we to say which struggles are worthwhile and which are not?
Sally:
When did you decide to become God?
Sorry, you’re just not that omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent to ever make a judgement about any pregnancy. Nor is any one of us mere mortals, except Hal of course.
And that goes for all you language challenged pro-aborts.
Kristen:
I’ll bet the 80/20 rule visa vi happy/sad applies to the general population as well.
FetusFascist:
If you’re so concerned about suffering, why aren’t you pro-life? I mean, what unimaginable suffering does a baby go through during an abortion? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?
Uh, oh, I’m sorry, you’re talking about your own suffering.
The blind singer Stevie Wonder was once asked if he ever felt bitter or cheated by a lifetime of blindness. Stevie responded no, that his blindness was a gift from God. This way, he said, he is able to judge people for what they truly are, not how they happen look to him.
As I said, we cannot assume to know what a challenged person thinks or feels.
Gianna Jessen has referred to her cerebral palsy as a “gift” as well.
“How awkward it would have been had Krysten been diagnosed as a dwarf en utero with the ensuing suggestion to her mother that she abort for the imperfection.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“I’m sorry to have to inform you, but you’re pregnant with a human.”
–
“Damn I was going for a pony.”
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Anyway it’s good that everything worked out for her and her baby.
“Suffering is a part of life.”
Janet, pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Do you suggest we ignore the plight of refugees from war torn countries or ignore the suffering of those in the midst of a famine because “suffering is a part of life” and they should just suck it up? When a child is molested is it just a part of life? Should we put up with racism, sexism, ageism and other prejudices simply because they are a part of life?
“Have you ever watched the TV show about the family of “little people” called “Meet the Roloffs? They are the happiest, nicest, most fun-loving family you’ll see on TV.”
On a side note, wasn’t the father arrested for drunk driving? Would they still be so happy and fun loving had he ran over a person and killed them?
The Simpson’s are probably the most religious families next to 7th Heaven. They go to church every Sunday, pray to God and frequently discuss theological questions.
PLEASE tell me what you think about this:
(and can we have a thread about etopic pregnancies?)
//According to Sara Vald
The Doctrine of the Shedding of Innocent Blood:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3722098690652929884
That answers nothing. So every woman who wants to have sex, maybe even become pregnant, should be willing to doe a painful death? Why don’t we just make sex illegal punishable by death and be done with it?
Sally,
I’ve watched the show. Have you watched the show and paid attention? Of course not.
Being a dualist, you would have to conclude that all pregnancies come from god and only an evil woman would miscarry. Much more evil than God to abort.
I don’t have a clue what you are trying to say here, but let me clear something up. Catholics are NOT dualists.
Laura,
Matt Roloff has had dozens of surgeries and a lifetime of crippling chronic pain. He and his wife Amy gave that gift to their son Zach, who also seems to have chronic pain and surgeries all the time.
Life’s hard enough without a handicap. I would never knowingly give one to someone else. Suffering is bad.
Just how, pray tell, does one give someone else a handicap?
Janet, pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Do you suggest we ignore the plight of refugees from war torn countries or ignore the suffering of those in the midst of a famine because “suffering is a part of life” and they should just suck it up? When a child is molested is it just a part of life? Should we put up with racism, sexism, ageism and other prejudices simply because they are a part of life?
Well of course not Jess, we should just kill them all and put them out of their misery…haven’t you been paying attention?
DOUG,
Almost 80 per cent of obstetricians would support termination of pregnancy when the foetus had dwarfism, a survey has found.
Support for termination at 13 weeks was unanimous among those obstetricians who are expert in diagnosing dwarfism by ultrasound.
However, dwarfism is difficult to diagnose early and is only usually apparent much later in gestation, approaching 30 weeks, unless there is a family history of dwarfism.
Support for aborting foetuses with dwarfism at 24 weeks dropped considerably among Victorian obstetricians, from 78 per cent to 14 per cent.
But among clinical geneticists and obstetricians around Australia who specialise in ultrasound (the main method by which dwarfism is diagnosed), who were surveyed separately from the Victorian obstetricians, support for termination at 24 weeks remained high at more than 70 per cent.
The surveys were conducted late last year by the Murdoch Childrens Research Institute.
The obstetricians and geneticists were surveyed by Associate Professor Julian Savulescu, a senior ethicist, on their attitudes to termination at 13 and 24 weeks’ gestation for a range of medical and social conditions ranging from cleft palates to dwarfism, Down syndrome and spina bifida.
“It’s time for Australian hospital management to support doctors when they are making these decisions,” Professor Savulescu said.
http://www.shortsupport.org/News/0008.html
“Suffering is a part of life.”
Janet, pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Do you suggest we ignore the plight of refugees from war torn countries or ignore the suffering of those in the midst of a famine because “suffering is a part of life” and they should just suck it up? When a child is molested is it just a part of life? Should we put up with racism, sexism, ageism and other prejudices simply because they are a part of life?
Posted by: Jess at February 21, 2008 1:22 AM
Jess, 1:22,
Please read each post in context. I was directing my comment on suffering to FF who thinks we should abort dwarf people because they shouldn’t have to suffer.
I’m not saying we should ignore the suffering of the world. I’m saying each person will have their own unique suffering sometime in their life, like drug, alcohol addiction, physical or mental handicaps, disease, chronic pain, loss of a loved one, loneliness, hunger, mental illness, etc. I’ve never met a person who has not suffered something in his/her life. Have you? – that is my point.
I don’t know how the Simpsons or 7th Heaven relate to this. Can you explain?
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Ari-Chan –
Thanks for explaining that better! I knew I was missing something, but didn’t have time to go through all my research.
I loved my genetics class – I wish I could have taken more!
Doug –
A family I used to babysit for had a Daughter with Down Syndrome. She was beautiful. Her doctor knew that they never thought of her as a burden and loved her as much as they did their other daughter. This didn’t stop him from recomending she get an abortion when she got pregnant again.
What makes you think a doctor would stop if the mother had the disability that a good portion of the world is trying to eliminate through Eugenic Abortion?
My sister was taking care of a child with a genetic disabiltiy (I can’t remember which one) when it was discovered through tests the doctor actually yelled at the mother for not aborting and called her “Hitler” because she was damning the child to a life as bad as the Jews in the concentration camps. Nice huh? oh – the reason the test was done was because the women’s brother had the disability.
I think you give some people to much credit, but then again you don’t seem to believe that Eugenic Abortion is a reality and is happening on a daily basis.
Jess 2:11am
I find it shocking. This would be unthinkable in any American hospital, religious or otherwise. I did some training in a 3rd world hospital and frankly, this doesn’t shock me. I saw plenty that made my jaw drop.
Even with rupture, the fetus may still be alive. With better diagnostic techniques we can find them before they rupture and operate, but not always. With better surgical techniques the Fallopian tube can more likely be saved and the woman’s fertility preserved, where years ago that was seldom the case.
We never concern ourselves with whether or not the fetus is alive, but rather getting the woman to surgery before disaster strikes and doing everything possible to preserve her tube. We’re well aware there is absolutely no other alternative but removal of the fetus or the woman will most likely die. We go on the premise that the fetus has no chance for survival, the woman does.
Isn’t it great to live in a pro-choice society, where women are allowed to carry any pregnancy they want?
Haha that was really funny, Reality. You do have a sense of humor, after all.
REality,
If your post is in reference to mine on ectopic pregnancy the fact is women were operated on for ectopics before there was ever Roe. Even when abortion laws were at their strictest, exceptions were always made for women who’s lives were judged to truly be endangered by pregnancy.
“How awkward it would have been had Krysten been diagnosed as a dwarf en utero with the ensuing suggestion to her mother that she abort for the imperfection.”
I work as a counselor at a Pregnancy Resource Center. Recently we had a young client come in for a pregnancy test. She was a little person. Her test was positive.
The girl’s own father relentlessly pressured her to abort b/c of the likelihood that her baby could also be a dwarf.
I found it very ironic and sad that this man, himself a father of a dwarf who he appeared to love very much, would encourage HER to abort due to the possibility of dwarfism. I would’ve expected him to be her biggest advocate to carry to term.
Lord, have mercy on us.
“I don’t know how the Simpsons or 7th Heaven relate to this. Can you explain?”
You were talking about how the family with the dwarfs was the happiest one you’ve seen on tv. Did you read what I said about drunk driving?
This young woman’s story was the subject of a documentary called “The world’s shortest mother”. I think it was on one of the Discovery Channels..maybe Discovery Health?
Oh, and to those who support aborting “little people” (dwarfism)…have you ever watched ‘Star Wars’ trilogy or Harry Potter? We wouldn’t have had many of the Ewoks in Return of the Jedi OR Professor Flitwick from Harry Potter movies. The lovable droid R2D2 was played part of the time by a little person, too. They are human, too. They just are unique like everyone else in the world.
On a side note, wasn’t the father arrested for drunk driving? Would they still be so happy and fun loving had he ran over a person and killed them?
The Simpson’s are probably the most religious families next to 7th Heaven. They go to church every Sunday, pray to God and frequently discuss theological questions.
Posted by: Jess at February 21, 2008 1:29 AM
You were talking about how the family with the dwarfs was the happiest one you’ve seen on tv. Did you read what I said about drunk driving?
Posted by: Jess at February 21, 2008 12:26 PM
Jess,
Yikes! You’re giving me hypothetical questions about television shows that are not relevant to Jill’s post. Let’s get back to the main topic. OK?
I think this whole question concerning little people and abortion would best be resolved once and for all by asking little people they would have preferred being aborted or if little people are better off being aborted. Who would know better than them?
Mary, you’re my hero.
Janet you were talking about how they were so happy. I’m making a point that they aren’t perfect.
Bethany,
Thank you so much. I must admit that’s a first!
You’ve certainly made my day:):):):)
Mary:
Jess’s post was about the reality of the abortion ban in Guatemala. The New York TImes did a feature on it. The lesson for anti-choicers seems to be – be careful what you wish (or protest) for.
Good link, Jess.
Let’s see: the ocuple lives with his parents. That is lucky, because if that help were not available, imagine Christianne trying to care for that baby on her own, presumably while the boyfriend works . She cannot carry the child at all, as she herself cannot walk. Because of the length of her arms, she also seemed to have trouble holding the child on her lap.
This couple made a choice based on an analysis of their available resources and support system, which seem quite good. What a shame you don’t want others to have the privacy to make their choice, too.
Phylosopher,
Kindly refer to my 8:57am and 10am posts of today.
Speaking of being careful what you wish for, you might address the issue of the deliberate destruction of females by sex selection abortion both here and abroad.
I just read an article about an autistic girl who is able to communicate via computer. Everyone thought she was cognitively challenged, but discovered she is quite articulate…
She has this to say about being “different”…
I thought it was a good answer to the questions about suffering that have been addressed today…
“Autism is hard because you want to act one way, but you can’t always do that. It’s sad that sometimes people don’t know that sometimes I can’t stop myself and they get mad at me. If I could tell people one thing about autism it would be that I don’t want to be this way. But I am, so don’t be mad. Be understanding.”
You can read the rest of the article here:
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Story?id=4311223&page=1
The doctor she saw suggested an abortion to begin with, because he said it might kill her. Club foot, cleft palate, Down Syndrome, boy, girl, little person…where does it end? So, if you were a doctor you wouldn’t encourage her to have an abortion if the baby were a little person like her momma? Will I ever figure Doug out? :)
Carla, I think you’re getting me pretty well. Those last few percentage points, well, who’s counting?
I can certainly understand the doctor making recommendations based on the danger to the woman but I was talking about the suggestion to her mother that she abort for the imperfection (dwarfism).
I mean, if I’m the doctor, I would mention the fact of dwarfism or the possiblity of it, but I wouldn’t say, in effect, “Even though you’re a dwarf too, I recommend having an abortion because the fetus has dwarfism.” Good grief… talk about a bedside manner….
I don’t think I’d suggest abortion dwarfism, period, regardless of the parent’s height. I see it as up to them, regardless, not up to me.
Doug
MK: Almost 80 per cent of obstetricians would support termination of pregnancy when the foetus had dwarfism, a survey has found.
Support for termination at 13 weeks was unanimous among those obstetricians who are expert in diagnosing dwarfism by ultrasound.
MK, I hear you, but there’s a difference between “supporting” it and actually suggesting it or recommending it. I see it as up to the woman or couple, and if I was the doc, I wouldn’t be saying, “You ought to have an abortion,” or “I think you should have one because…”
I wouldn’t make any secrets of the physical reality of the various situations, but if the parents want to continue the pregnancy then I don’t think I should have any input to the contrary.
Doug
Valerie: A family I used to babysit for had a Daughter with Down Syndrome. She was beautiful. Her doctor knew that they never thought of her as a burden and loved her as much as they did their other daughter. This didn’t stop him from recomending she get an abortion when she got pregnant again.
If he’s saying, “You ought to have an abortion because of the Down’s Syndrome,” then IMO that is BS.
……
What makes you think a doctor would stop if the mother had the disability that a good portion of the world is trying to eliminate through Eugenic Abortion?
Tact?
……
My sister was taking care of a child with a genetic disabiltiy (I can’t remember which one) when it was discovered through tests the doctor actually yelled at the mother for not aborting and called her “Hitler” because she was damning the child to a life as bad as the Jews in the concentration camps. Nice huh? oh – the reason the test was done was because the women’s brother had the disability.
Well, I see that as unacceptable bedside manner.
……
I think you give some people to much credit, but then again you don’t seem to believe that Eugenic Abortion is a reality and is happening on a daily basis.
Maybe I do, but I still think the doctors who are actually going to advise having an abortion because of so-and-so are not the majority, far from it, in fact. Again, laying out the facts is one thing, but for the doctor to give his opinion, his saying of “you should have an abortion…”, to me that seems going too far, to no good purpose.
On “eugenics” – if somebody is trying to stop everybody from continuing Down’s pregnancies, for example, then I’d agree the term applied. Yet for one given woman to want to end a pregnancy because of fetal deficiency is hardly that.
Doug
I work as a counselor at a Pregnancy Resource Center. Recently we had a young client come in for a pregnancy test. She was a little person. Her test was positive.
The girl’s own father relentlessly pressured her to abort b/c of the likelihood that her baby could also be a dwarf.
I found it very ironic and sad that this man, himself a father of a dwarf who he appeared to love very much, would encourage HER to abort due to the possibility of dwarfism. I would’ve expected him to be her biggest advocate to carry to term.
Kristi, I don’t think that’s good, either. My opinion – the father should be concerned with what’s best for his daughter, and what she wants, rather than what he wants.
Doug
Psh! This isn’t new. I’ve seen at least 3 other women like this on the Discovery Channel. All three choose to keep it. This has nothing to do with anything else.