Obama’s blind spots
I just watched Barack Obama give his speech about Rev. Jeremiah Wright’s racism and anti-Americanism.
It was a great speech on racism – choked me up in spots – but it did not respond to how Obama sat in a church for 20 years and, so he says, remained unaware of Wright’s radical racism and unpatriotism.
In fact, either on purpose or by osmosis, Obama appears to have been negatively impacted by Wright’s teaching. All the pieces fit: Obama’s refusal to place hand over heart during the National Anthem, his decision not to wear a patriotic pin, and his wife’s “first time I’m proud of my country” line. We are to believe these actions were in no way connected to Wright?
I have been a member of my church for 20 years, just like Obama. It is simply incredible to purport ignorance of a long-standing pastor’s beliefs, particularly a mentor. I travel, so I am not at my church on a weekly basis. But I still know what my pastor thinks and says.
I have attended a service at Obama’s church….
A friend and I went last December, to see what it was about. With the exception of a small invited Baptist group, we were the only whites there. That was fine. We felt welcomed. The music was good. The service was Afro-centric. The children’s choir wore African clothing. Wright was travelling, so the current pastor, Otis Moss, preached a good sermon encouraging black men to rise up and be fathers to the fatherless in their community.
The thing is, Wright called in. He was on a South American tour, he said, visiting black museums in countries with histories of black slavery.
Obama is an intelligent man. He had to have known Wright’s preoccupation. Or he was blind.
It would not be Obama’s only blind spot. From his speech today:
The document they produced was eventually signed but ultimately unfinished. It was stained by this nation’s original sin of slavery….
Of course, the answer to the slavery question was already embedded within our Constitution – a Constitution that had at is very core the ideal of equal citizenship under the law; a Constitution that promised its people liberty, and justice, and a union that could be and should be perfected over time….
In the end, then, what is called for is nothing more, and nothing less, than what all the world’s great religions demand – that we do unto others as we would have them do unto us. Let us be our brother’s keeper, Scripture tells us. Let us be our sister’s keeper. Let us find that common stake we all have in one another, and let our politics reflect that spirit as well.
Also embedded in the Constitution – and Scipture – is the right to life.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Jill, I thought the EXACT SAME THING when I heard Obama say that line about the constitution and scripture and sins of our country ….. my brain was thinking: abortion, abortion, abortion!!!!!!!
Unbelievable. For him to say that he was unaware is a bald-faced lie. So much for being a “different kind” of President. So far the only thing that he has demonstrated to me that is different is the fact that he’s black.
I agree it was a great speech. I disagree with your criticisms.
What the heck is wrong with this?
“The thing is, Wright called in. He was on a South American tour, he said, visiting black museums in countries with histories of black slavery.”
He’s not allowed to visit those countries? Those museums? He shouldn’t have called in? what is the point?
Obama loves this country. Wearing a flag pin or not wearing a flag pin makes no difference.
Obama address the question of what he knew and didn’t know. It’s all in the speech. Read it again. Nathan Will Sheets shouldn’t throw around “bald-faced lie” without something to back it up.
Hal says “Wearing a flag pin or not wearing a flag pin makes no difference.”
It does when you are running for the office of President of the country whose flag pen you are not willing to wear, and whose flag you are not willing to pledge allegiance to.
Were he not asking for our votes, most people could care less how unpatriotic he is…. but he is, and we do.
Hal,
Even myself a Canadian from the Great White North gets it!
How can you attend a “church” for 20 years and say that you don’t hold to the beliefs espoused in that church. Obama claimed this today as was reported on the new.
I also heard that Obama said he’s had many private conversations with Wright and he’s never made racial remarks in private. Good grief! if the man is spouting this stuff in public from the pulpit – he’s gonna being spouting it in private too.
What does he think the American public is? STUPID?
He *is* willing to pledge allegiance to our flag, and has led the Pledge on many occasions. He is not unpatriotic. He is declining to engage in the false, showy, patriotism of flakey politicans.
I like that about him.
All this talk about Obama. This sums it up for me. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Obama’s refusal to place hand over heart during the National Anthem
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/anthem.asp
When you care about someone – a family member or a friend – sometimes youre willing to overlook their flaws and short comings and focus on the good things about the person. And if their views become gradually more radical with the passing of time you may not really even notice. But there can still come a time when you feel you reall do have to say something and be honest about not agreeing with some of this persons points of view and attitudes regardless of their positive points – like when youre running for President.
Hal –
So what do you think about his lie?
He called Rev Wright his “mentor” and then says he doesn’t know what he stands for? He goes to the Church for 20 years and doesn’t know what is said? Did you not hear the congregration responding to Rev. Wrights comments?
He is a typical politician who believes that Americans are too stupid to understand anything. And you have fallen for it, hook, line and sinker!
Pathetic.
John McCain doesn’t wear a flag pin, either:
http://tinyurl.com/2fpmql
Is he also unpatriotic?
Texas Red… do suppose Eve Braun ever thought those things?
You guys really are willing rationalize this COMPLETELY racist person that Obama calls his “mentor.” He’s your mentor and YET, you’ve managed to miss his racist sermons? COME ON! Wake up people.
Racist against black people= WRONG,WRONG,WRONG!
Racist against white people= That’s okay with me!
Man, denial is such a powerful thing.
Are you SERIOUSLY listing the fact that he chooses not to wear some stupid lapel pin as a sign of his lack of patriotism? Why? Because he doesn’t buy in to the over commercialized patriotism of draping oneself in flags that are manufactured in China, he must hate America? Please.
Also, the hype over the words of Obama’s pastor just REEKS of the fear the religious right has about his popularity and electability.
Did Obama say those things?
Did Obama support those statements?
Did Obama stand up and yell “AMEN!” to any of those sermon?
Has Obama not, on several occaisions, publicly stated that Wright can get carried away?
Do you all believe that you and your religious leader have the same opinions about everything?
How would any of us feel, in our personal, public, or professional lives if words SOMEONE ELSE said could be held against us just because we associate with them?
Are we really so desperate to cut people down that we will judge them and condemn them by the words of others, rather than the words coming out of someones own mouth, or their actions?
Its also important to note that many black churches follow the concept of “Liberation Theology” – the idea being that God/Jesus is on the side of the oppressed, and damning the oppressors. This notion was part of the identity of the black church, that in turn became the foundation for the Civil Rights Movement. Rev. Wright’s sermons are no more controversial than those of MANY who came before him. If he still believes that the people he is preaching to are being opressed by the American government, it is his Constitutional right to say so, and yours, AND Barack Obama’s to agree or disagree.
Jill – you know PERFECTLY well if a conservative candidate belonged to a church where the priest or pastor was angrily condeming gays and telling his congregation that God brought AIDS to punish them (just as Rev. Wright said our government’s actions brought about 9/11) and the liberal media started calling for the conservative candidates head through guilt by association, you would be angrily posting about liberals stomping out free speech and trying to cut down conservatives.
To avoid anyone looking like a hypocrite, why not stick to using a person’s OWN words to decide how we feel about them and their beliefs?
Texas Red… do suppose Eve Braun ever thought those things?
Posted by: Cranky Catholic at March 18, 2008 2:23 PM
***************************
Do you mean Eva Braun? Hitlers girlfriend / wife? She may well have agreed with everything Hitler believed. Its apples and oranges in this context. Please dont try to compare Obama to Hitler.
Reality –
One photo opp and you say he doesn’t wear a pin ever?
Mccain spent 5 1/2 years in a POW camp being tortured and still loves America enough and the people enough to spend the majority of his life in public service. Enough said about patriotism.
Since Obama doesn’t have a record of proving to be patriotic, or a record at all for that matter, it would be helpful if his actions spoke of patriotism.
Did Obama stand up and yell “AMEN!” to any of those sermon?
I’m sure that will be coming…what will he say then? “It wasn’t me, I was having an out of body experience.”
Please.
I wouldn’t go to ANY church that condemned ANY race EVER…any sermon I ever heard preaching HATE would force me to get up and leave and never return. That’s what people who AREN’T racist do!
Amanda –
STOP THE DRIVE BY READING!
Geesh. We are not saying that Obama said these things, nor or we condeming him for what Rev Wright said.
WE ARE SAYING THAT HE LIED BY SAYING HE DIDN’T KNOW REV. WRIGHT SAID THOSE THINGS!
“but it did not respond to how Obama sat in a church for 20 years and, so he says, remained unaware of Wright’s radical racism and unpatriotism. ”
Hello? Obama is trying to run like a coward from statments that you so easily explained away. Why didn’t Obama say those things you did? If he did, none of this would be media worthy. It is the fact that he LIED! It is the fact that he doesn’t have the balls to stand up for the man he called a mentor. It is the fact that he is leaving his own Church to be hung out and left dangling for the vultures/media. it is the fact that he is a coward and ran at the first sign of bad press. Is this what we want to be representing us at the United Nations? Someone who is such a coward he can’t stand up for his beliefs?
I think that the actions of trying to keep American out of an unjust and stupid war, trying to stop America from torturing, etc. are extremely patriotic. I’m not being a smart aleck, either. I think trying to hold your country to its ideals, even when people are afraid and tempted to abandon those ideals, is the most patriotic thing anyone can do.
I’ve written to Obama about his blind spot where the unborn are concerned, though.
I think trying to hold your country to its ideals, even when people are afraid and tempted to abandon those ideals, is the most patriotic thing anyone can do.
Explain to me how he does that now?
Like I said, by trying to keep us out of the war, by trying to stop us from torturing, by trying to uphold Americans’ constitutional rights to habeus corpus, by trying to hold the Administration accountable for breaking the law by spying on Americans illegally, etc.
Texas, I’m not comparing Obama to Hitler, I’m poking a hole in your philosophy of overlooking people’s radical ideas.
“by trying to stop us from torturing…”
Unless, perhaps, you just happen to be an unborn baby.
Brother’s keeper? He must have some idea, but not what Scripture teaches. Given Obama’s stance on the Born Alive Infant Protection Act his ideas seem more in line with the SCOTUS decision on Dred Scott.
Unless, perhaps, you just happen to be an unborn baby.
Well, yes, I’m not defending that.
“Hello? Obama is trying to run like a coward from statments that you so easily explained away. ”
this is not running like a coward, nor is it a “lie.”
I have already condemned, in unequivocal terms, the statements of Reverend Wright that have caused such controversy. For some, nagging questions remain. Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely
Valerie – re-read Jills words. She said:
“All the pieces fit: Obama’s refusal to place hand over heart during the National Anthem, his decision not to wear a patriotic pin, and his wife’s “first time I’m proud of my country” line. We are to believe these actions were in no way connected to Wright?”
She is attributing actions by Barack Obama to Rev. Wright – saying she believes they are connected. Barack Obama doesn’t wear a stupid pin because of the influence Rev. Wright? Come on. Thats absurd.
I find it interesting that Obama won’t even vote Present on Rev. Wright….
It’s kind of like, he didn’t inhale….
Ok, LB, what would you write for him to say that’s any better than what Senator Obama wrote?
There are certain things that yes, pastors and attendees to mass disagree on I am sure. But what we are talking about here is HATE SPEECH people. HATE SPEECH. If you don’t want to be a party to hate speech, find a different church or pastor of ANYTHING! But this man sat sermon after sermon of this hate speech, was married by this racist, had his daughter baptized by this racist..and you expect me to believe he doesn’t support this person’s beliefs?
That’s like saying my friend is a member of the KKK but I’m not a racist. Then WHY would I be friends with someone who was in the KKK? There are certain beliefs that I don’t share with my friends but on something as important as hatred towards others based on their race, THERE is where I draw the line.
I can’t believe something as terrible as this hate speech is being rationalized by people. I betcha this is how Hitler did it..he got people to believe he was all these things so that they would support him NO MATTER WHAT. WAKE UP!
Hal —
I don’t know what he should write, because I don’t hang out with people who would spout such noxious stuff.
As a Chicagoan — I think there is a good chance that his involvement with the Church was a way to build ‘cred’ in a community he was new to. So maybe he doesn’t agree.
But either way it shows that Obama is either lying about the depth of his commitment to this Church/Pastor or has somehow compartimentalized what he is listening to on Sunday (w/his family) and what he believes every other day of the week. Some of the statements of his wife, seem to show her belief in the anti-American views of the Pastor.
“But this man sat sermon after sermon of this hate speech,”
I’ve seen reference to two speeches in 20 years that were over the line (and one of them wasn’t really over the line in my opinion).
Even Jill had a nice experience at this church. ]
What makes you think there was sermon after sermon “of this hate speech?”
I don’t see Wright as a racist. Not the comments I’ve read. The HIV stuff, and 9/11 stuff, a bit crazy for sure, but not hate speech.
It’s hate when you want God to damn… namely America.
You guys are sure white and fragle.
This country *has* done evil things to people of color. People *are* pissed off about it. It’s a shame you’re uncomfortable with brutal honesty, and outraged by a little rough language. I think you need to put it in perspective and relax a bit. Rhetorical attacks aimed at our government are nothing new, not improper, and show more love for the country and its ideals than a million little flag pins ever will.
This is not “HATE SPEECH.” To the extent it was improper in any way, Obama’s reaction to it today seems high minded and thoughtful. I’m looking forward to 8 years of his Presidency.
Elizabeth – where are you getting “hate speech” from?
Is the guy angry about a lot of stuff? yeah
Is some of it irrational and over the top? yeah – and Barack has stated that several times before this all turned in to a circus
But you are taking clips from I think 3 sermons total over the course of this mans several DECADES of weekly services and countless otehr speeches and making assumptions about ALLLL sorts of things.
Look up some of the Civil Rights era speeches on wiki – let me know if you think those are “hate speech”. WHat about Malcolm X – were his words “hate speech” – or were they angry and impassioned?
Anger is not equal to hate. Even irrational anger.
This country *has* done evil things to people of color……………. YUP, just like PP promotes abortions to poor black women. Hal, that’s evil.
“It’s hate when you want God to damn… namely America.”
I may not know the exact and correct usage of the term, but isn’t that what God does? He damns things that need damnation. There can be no forgiveness without repentance. (I really shouldn’t be talking religion, I’m very ignorant) It seems that a church is a place where you can discuss God’s damning of things.
Cranky — I agree.
I also think that an educated person, such as the Reverend, telling his congregation that the US government developed AIDS to kill black people is also hateful. His purpose by pushing that is to divide and cause hate, pure and simple.
My sister-in-law, Sarah, is a black minister and she said that this sort of preaching is not the norm at any church she has attended, nor those of her father or brother who are/were both preachers. She said this is a radical theology that is more political than spiritual.
Ohhhh… so Cranky… its HATE when you damn gays for being gay?
Really?!? All this time you fundies have been telling me thats not hate, just your religious beliefs that I need to learn to tolerate!
Wow. Its so good to know you admit that damning people is Hate.
THANK YOU.
It seems that a church is a place where you can discuss God’s damning of things.
Posted by: Hal at March 18, 2008 4:05 PM
Well Hal, when it comes to political coverage, apparently it’s ok for white evangelical ministers (like Francis Schaeffer for instance), but not ok for black ministers.
Consider the following published anti-American quotes from Francis Schaeffer, who is credited by many with being the driving force behind the religious right political movement, and who profoundly influenced many in the pro-life movement, such as Randall Terry of Operation Rescue. Francis Schaeffer was invited to converse with Presidents Ford, Reagan, and Bush Sr., and none of them were ever asked to denounce him.
“If there is a legitimate reason for the use of force [against the US government]… then at a certain point force is justifiable.”
“In the United States the materialistic, humanistic world view is being taught exclusively in most state schools… There is an obvious parallel between this and the situation in Russia [the USSR]. And we really must not be blind to the fact that indeed in the public schools in the United States all religious influence is as forcibly forbidden as in the Soviet Union….”
“There does come a time when force, even physical force, is appropriate… A true Christian in Hitler’s Germany and in the occupied countries should have defied the false and counterfeit state. This brings us to a current issue that is crucial for the future of the church in the United States, the issue of abortion… It is time we consciously realize that when any office commands what is contrary to God’s law it abrogates it’s authority. And our loyalty to the God who gave this law then requires that we make the appropriate response in that situation…”
Everyone on the religious right LOVED Francis Schaeffer, anti-Americanisms and all. He just spoke to their particular version of “anti-Americanism”, so it was A-OK.
His son wrote a recent article on Salon, which is where I pulled the quotes.
This country *has* done evil things to people of color. People *are* pissed off about it. It’s a shame you’re uncomfortable with brutal honesty, and outraged by a little rough language.
It’s not brutal honesty so much as it is hate, Hal. But whatever, if we want to keep living in the past so that justifies hating other people who had nothing to do with THAT past, then that’s fine. You call it what you want..it’s still full of hate.
And Amanda, Didn’t Malcolm X promote violence? Probably not the best comparison here.
Sorry, my bad. Frank Schaeffer’s article was published on the Huffington Post, not Salon.
“It’s not brutal honesty so much as it is hate, Hal. But whatever, if we want to keep living in the past so that justifies hating other people who had nothing to do with THAT past, then that’s fine. ”
Obama wants to move past it. It’s Wright who’s still there. He’s of a different generation. Obama explained it all in his beautiful speech, read it.
Thanks Hieronymous, I saw that too.
Hal, Obama won’t be our next president, Stop dreaming.
Heather, your nightmare is my dream. Don’t make me wake up.
We shall see.
Strip away the emotion and remain with nothing but pure logic, and here’s what you’re left with:
-It was an absurd, meaningless speech, just like every other speech Obama has given.
-Obama condemned the remarks of Wright, but then justified them by blaming all of the problems minorities have on businessmen, lobbyists, and politicians. Obama’s solution? Far-left policy.
-Of course Obama knew that kinds of things his pastor was saying in church. It’s ridiculous for him or anyone else to claim that he never heard these remarks before. And as he informed us today, he more or less agrees with them – but not worded in the same, racially charged, anti-American way in which his pastor stated them.
This speech was just about enough to make me re-register as a Democrat so I can vote for Hillary Clinton in the PA primary. I’m not quite there yet, but, almost! I’m really getting sick of this BS that passes for “inspiration”. I want a straight talker, not some jerk who hides behind meaningless rhetoric.
John, I second what you’ve just said.
I listened to most of his speech. Why didn’t you hear him condemning these words years ago?
Was there any condemnation in the two books he wrote?
I am sickened by the fact he tried to tie us all in together by stating that “we have all sat in churches where we don’t agree with what is said” I shook my head in disbelief.
We go to the church we choose because we do believe in what the pastor, minister, father is saying.
He is caught in a trap and gave a speech that had many contradictions to it to please everyone.
He is an expert in word manipulation.
How transparent.
This is how it works.
God doesn’t damn people, people can’t damn others and people only damn themselves.
John, there are times I feel like we live in two Americas. Or two realities. Where I see an honest, earnest and open dialog on difficult racial issues, you and Heather see “some jerk who hides behind meaningless rhetoric.”
He hit a home run today, and you’ll have to adjust more than I will.
“In some forms of Western Christian belief, damnation to hell is the punishment of God for persons with unredeemed sin.”
Wright was apprently saying that the US should be punished for unredeemed racial sins. I don’t agree, but it’s not that far off. Certainly not hate speech.
Hal, I agree. It’s clear that you live in the Soviet Socialist Republic of Amerika and I live in the United States of America.
You like Obama because you like his far-left extremist policies. I dislike Obama because not only is he far-left, but he hides the fact that he is far-left behind stupid, meaningless rhetoric. Obama went on for over 30 minutes today, and in those 30+ minutes, he essentially said NOTHING.
It’s a question of Obama’s judgment and his ability to unify, since those are the twin planks of his candidacy, by his own making.
His lengthy, close association with Wright, and the fact that now (after it all comes out) he claims to have not known about it, call to question his judgment (which he himself has made so important via his advertising and his speeches). The fact that he either agreed with, condoned, or was too oblivious to know about his mentor’s divisive and hateful speech indicates to me that he will likely lack all ability to unify (which again, he himself has made important via his own advertising and speeches, etc.) Actually, I personally have never thought he had any ability to unify. Of course, he has a great ability to make those who agree with him feel great and feel like they are “unified”, but he has no record of reaching across the aisle or of attempting compromise with those with whom he does not agree. In fact, quite the opposite.
S.
John, he said quite a bit. What were you expecting? It was powerful, interesting, and necessary for this country to hear.
I’ve got to run. But I’ll sleep better tonight knowing that Obama is firmly on the Road to the White House.
Great post, Jill! It was interesting how his speech was just more excuses for Uncle Jer. At this point, Obama should consider himself lucky that there aren’t more theologians in media who see the black liberation theology (BLT) for what it is, and that his politics is actually the logical outworkings of his theology.His views are inherent to BLT.
“What makes you think there was sermon after sermon “of this hate speech?”
From what I’ve heard, the church actually packages and sells these dvds …. “The Best (or Worst?) of Rev. Wright!”
S.
“but he has no record of reaching across the aisle or of attempting compromise with those with whom he does not agree. In fact, quite the opposite.”
He sure does. The Police in Illinois came around to his position on taping confessions. The Republicans in the Senate joined him in exposing government waste. Ask any of the Republicans in Illinois. THey respect the guy. For good reason.
You guys should stop reading Hillary’s talking points.
Hal, I already told you what I want. I want straight talk, not nonsense. Unfortunately, nonsense is what I have come to expect from Obama. And today, we got 30+ minutes of nonsense.
Readers of this blog who reside in or near Chicago understand what is behind the Obama candidacy. Democratic machine politics are at the heart of Obama’s political career. He was bred and nourished by the one party system. Cronyism and strong arm politics, and the arrogance that goes with it, is what we are seeing in action. The intellectual arrogance that presumes he can get in front of the race issue even while he has been at the center of it by his 20 plus year membership of a “church” that espouses denigration of whites is just another example of why Mr. Obama is unfit to be president.
When Michelle Obama said something to the effect that this is the first time she is proud to be an American, now we know why. Having sat through scores of “Reverend” Wright’s racist ramblings what she began to think of as mainstream was really, as she found out by the reaction her remarks received, were not at all mainstream, but rather quite marginal.
The question has to be: How did those same ramblings affect the development of Barack’s world view? It is like he is a stealth candidate. No one knows for sure where he is coming from. He says lots of nice things, but as the old commercial asked: “Where’s the Beef.” Obama still is not leveling with the American people, but we are starting to find out more and more about him and we are drawing our own conclusions.
“I’m looking forward to 8 years of his Presidency.”
Good luck with that! :)
“She said this is a radical theology that is more political than spiritual.”
Yes, it would seem that the good reverend’s speech is as much political as it is spiritual, thereby making Obama’s claim that “he was my spiritual advisor, not my political advisor” that much more artificial.
S.
“It’s not brutal honesty so much as it is hate, Hal. But whatever, if we want to keep living in the past so that justifies hating other people who had nothing to do with THAT past, then that’s fine. You call it what you want..it’s still full of hate.”
And “living in the past” isn’t quite in keeping with “change” – another huge, theme that Obama has promoted!
S.
“You guys should stop reading Hillary’s talking points.”
Hal, I don’t have to – all I had to do was look up his votes in the US senate.
Hal —
I guess you are not from Chicago, so you don’t know how it works. Obama did very little for in passing the Videotaping of Confessions bills, aside from taking credit.
The whole scenerio and background is nicely laid out in this article by a reporter who knew the candidate back in the day. http://www.houstonpress.com/2008-02-28/news/barack-obama-screamed-at-me/full
I see the guy as a politician first and foremost and think until he has received recent critical appraisal in the press, he was a mirror for his supporters. Meaning they saw what they wanted to in him — his words eloquent, but generalities. A mile wide and an inch deep.
Anyone running for POTUS needs to get critical examination and if they and their supporters can’t take the heat — well they won’t be able to do the job.
Well said, jerry.
S.
Posted by: Jerry at March 18, 2008 5:50 PM
Right on Jerry….
See, the whole thing about Rev. Wright living in the past was just more nonsense from Obama.
Consider that Rev. Wright suffered greatly from racism. I don’t know if he did, but let’s assume that he did. In that case, I would have absolutely no problem with him railing against racism from the pulpit. Heck, I wish he would rail against racism! And if every once in awhile, out of anger, he slipped into a tirade against the white people who committed racist acts against him? Fine by me.
But that’s NOT what he has done. He has made vicious, false accusations against white people. White people invented AIDS in order to kill blacks?! White people ignored the Katrina victims because they wanted the blacks to suffer?! White people are terrorists, the same as al Qaeda?! And how about his remarks about white people killing Jesus? Yet when people say that Jews killed Jesus, we call them anti-Semitic.
Now Obama’s church has a new pastor, and he said something interesting. He said that white people created gangsta rap in order to degrade black people and make money in the process. Did he say that because he’s living in the past, too? Or is he just a hateful, anti-American racist?
To put it simply:
Living in the past = Speaking racial slurs because it was acceptable and normal when you were young
Living in the past =/= Making up insane conspiracy theories about people of other races in order to make excuses for the failures within your community
OH YEAH, SoMG IS UNWILLING TO ADMIT THAT HE IS WRONG ONCE PRESENTED WITH EVIDENCE SHOWING HE IS WRONG! SEE FOR YOURSELF HERE.
https://www.jillstanek.com/archives/2008/03/breaking_news_t.html
Haha… I just saw video on TV of Jeremiah Wright complaining that the white people are trying to overturn Roe v. Wade. Well, we already knew he was racist and anti-American, so we probably could have guessed that he was also pro-abortion. Those three seem to go together.
John Lewandowski,
Rev. Wright rants about the Japanese killed by atomic bombs in HIroshima and Nagasaki. Has the good reverend ever heard of the rape of Nanking in which hundreds of thousands of Chinese men, women, and children, were raped, tortured, and massacred by rampaging Japanese soldiers during WW2? Since the brutally racist Japanese regarded the Chinese as little better than dogs they likely had few qualms about such indiscriminate slaughter.
How about the hundreds of thousands of Asian women, aka “comfort women, who were forced into sexual slavery by the Japanese?
Does the good reverend have any issue with the hundreds of thousands of German citizens who died by the incendiary bombs dropped on Dresden by the allies during WW2, a city loaded with civilian refugees and of no military significance. Being the people incinerated by the firestorms resulting from these bombs were white, I highly doubt it.
I should have asked if the Reverend Wright was as outraged about the rape of Nanking and the forced sexual slavery of Asian women as he was by the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
@Mary: Probably not. Afterall, white people didn’t commit the Rape of Nanking and forced sexual slavery.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/satire/jasper.asp
Apparently white people also screwed this woman over.
zeke, Somg doesn’t care about facts. He just makes things up as he goes along.
One conservative man talking about a great leader, and nailing the fools here with accuracy.
“For me, this is an epiphany of sorts. Not that I have changed my mind about the things I wrote in “The Conservative Soul.” Not that I have stopped believing in limited government, individual freedom, personal responsibility, pragmatic change. But I have come to believe that large swathes of today’s conservative movement truly are hateful.”
that’s you guys, trashing Obama: Hateful
“Even when Obama was reaching out, saying things I felt were absolutely true, sincere and conciliatory, he was met with derision.”
Have you no shame Pro Life Bloggers, at long last, have you no shame? I understand you disagree with Obama on abortion issues. But are you so blinded you can’t see the good in him? Must you attack him for everything, even as petty as a flag pin? Is this how you want to live? Is it fun, rewarding, uplifting? Does it bring out the best in you, is it best for our country? Can’t you join the other Catholic writers and be pro-life, and pro Obama?
Get on board now, the next 8 years will be so much easier and more rewarding.
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/03/the-right-and-o.html
Hal, 11:12PM
You absolutely refuse to see any failings in this man and what ones there may be, well that’s just hatefulness from the unenlightened.
I respect that you for whatever reason support the man but follow you down the primrose path to 8 years that will be so much easier and more rewarding?
Seriously Hal, you’re beginning to sound like someone in a messianic trance. You know I don’t say that out of spite, I like you very much.
The pro aborts have been routinely killing 50 percent of Black babies in the U.S. for years. They kill black babies at three times the rate of white babies. (Pro abortion people are advised to look up the word “rate” in order to understand this math concept before replying.) Obama has been voting consistently to support abortion activities in the U.S., is more extreme in his record than Hillary, and is to the left of NARAL.
Liberals have taken up these economists’ Bad Math http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers/DonohueLevittTheImpactOfLegalized2001.pdf and have been proclaiming that abortion lowers the crime rate. Maybe that’s why Obama has been persistently the most liberal candidate on the abortion issue, even to the point of supporting the practice of Infanticide in his home state of Illinois. But it’s interesting that he so assiduously fosters a practice which is selectively eliminating Blacks.
Prolifers, bear this in mind when a Liberal calls you racist for noticing that Obama has been listening to a racist in church for about 20 years, and that both he and his Pastor support those who have been selectively eliminating Blacks up to, and including the time of birth.
Explanations by Obama:
1. “I didn’t inhale”.
2. “I didn’t have sex with that man”.
3. “Who said that?”
Hal, you’re beginning to sound like someone in a messianic trance. You know I don’t say that out of spite, I like you very much.
Posted by: Mary at March 19, 2008 5:02 AM—————— Mary, I’m glad you said so. I feel the same way when it comes to Hal. A trance.
I’m voting for Obama since what Wright is speaking is the truth.
Racism is alive, well, and thriving in the USA and if you haven’t walked the walk, don’t even try and talk the talk. Oh, and that lame, “Some of my best friends are black”, speech is racist too. You don’t know us at all.
I’m voting for Obama since what Wright is speaking is the truth.
Racism is alive, well, and thriving in the USA and if you haven’t walked the walk, don’t even try and talk the talk. Oh, and that lame, “Some of my best friends are black”, speech is racist too. You don’t know us at all and you don’t even want to try.
Hal wrote:
I understand you disagree with Obama on abortion issues. But are you so blinded you can’t see the good in him?
Okay, let’s get something straight. Obama’s ideas are nothing new. They are actually the same old Leftist twaddle that we’ve seen for many years now. Most conservatives are not going to see much “good” in Obama’s politics.
Anyway, I want to address a bigger point that both you and Jen R have raised. Jen wrote:
I’ve written to Obama about his blind spot where the unborn are concerned, though.
It’s like you think that pro-lifers should accept Obama as a basically-good person who just happens to favor baby-killing. If video rental stores still rented VHS tapes, perhaps we could compare Obama’s pro-abortion stance to the Sin of Failing to Rewind.
It doesn’t work that way.
Legal abortion has claimed over 50 million innocent lives in the USA. It is the single biggest issue that we face. Legal abortion is more important than the economy. It is more important than taxes. It is more important than same-sex marriage. It is even more important than the War on Terror.
Hal, I understand why you support Obama. Unborn children are “unpersons” in your eyes, so you don’t mind sacrificing them. In fact, his rigid support for abortion is probably another reason for you to support him.
I really don’t understand how a pro-life liberal can support Obama. Either abortion just isn’t very important to such a person, or she’s seriously suffering from cognitive dissonance. How do you overlook the corpses of 50 million innocent children?
“Even when Obama was reaching out, saying things I felt were absolutely true, sincere and conciliatory, he was met with derision.”
Not because he is black; rather, because he is a leftist, quasi-socialist with ideas that, in conservatives’ opinion, are very very wrong for this country.
I would be thrilled to vote for a person of any race or gender (categories that have little meaning to me with respect to a person’s capabilities) with what I believe to be good ideas.
S.
“But are you so blinded you can’t see the good in him? Must you attack him for everything, even as petty as a flag pin? Is this how you want to live? Is it fun, rewarding, uplifting? Does it bring out the best in you, is it best for our country? Can’t you join the other Catholic writers and be pro-life, and pro Obama?”
Abortion is only one issue (albeit very important to many people on this board) – however, Obama’s stance on abortion is critical to me, as a person who believes that the right to life for all human beings is the central pillar on which our declaration, constitution, and civil society is based (in other words, I view abortion as a human rights issue – not a religious one). When Obama talks in his flowery speeches about wanting to provide opportunity for all children, and to bring all people together, I cannot help but note the hypocrisy in the fact that he is excluding the weakest and most vulnerable (and the most in need of help and protection) among us. His stance on the unborn and the born alive victims of abortion belies the rest of his rhetoric. I can’t take any of it seriously when I consider this point. For whatever good he might have in him, his position on these issues undermines it with hypocrisy.
And, additionally, I could care less about the flag pin. I think being *required* or *pressured* to wear a flag pin is about as stupid as being required or pressure to “wear ze ribbon.”
And finally, in my opinion, Catholics who think it is in keeping with their faith to support Obama are fooling themselves. His position on life issues should be a deal-breaker for faithful Catholics.
S.
“I’m voting for Obama since what Wright is speaking is the truth.
Racism is alive, well, and thriving in the USA and if you haven’t walked the walk, don’t even try and talk the talk.”
But “racism is alive and well” isn’t what Wright said. Undoubtedly if he had said this, it would be no big deal, and lots of people would say “yeah, he’s right!”
Rather, Wright said that (1) the US government started the AIDS virus to kill black people (a notoriously ineffective campaign it has been, given that AIDS in the US by and large affected other populations, and that it takes years to kill a person, and can be easily stopped or avoiding by simple abstinence – almost as effective as the UK royal family’s attempt to kill Diana via car crash by way of a drunk chauffur!); (2) the US is at fault for 9/11; (3) the US is the same as Al-Quaeda in its dropping of the atomic bombs, etc., etc., etc.
Wright’s speeches bring up numerous issues that are simply false, and in their falsity are malicious and show a disdain for this country which, if shared by Obama, would be unbecoming and downright dangerous for a president of this nation.
Obama was either too timid to confront Wright about his malicious falsities, too in need of TUCC’s political connections to do so (same ol’ Chi-town politics), too clueless to realize that what Wright was saying was false and wrong, or, he agrees with those things. Agreement with those things is clearly Obama’s right; however, it may make him even more unqualified to be president of this country than he already is.
S.
Jess- I know I still have to answer your question on the other thread….
I will try to do it sometime today!
S.
Gingrich made a good point about the speech. If Obama claims to be our hope for unity and change, why in 20 years of solid friendship with Wright did Obama not (to our knowledge) confront Wright and say “you’re just wrong about that” on the factually wrong stuff? If Obama can’t even speak truth to friends he’s known a long time and be convincing, how’s he going to deal with folks he barely knows in Washington and around the world, and cause change and unity? Is his charisma going to make them swoon?
Wright has baggage from Jim Crow, true enough. And I sympathize. But other old leaders in Washington have baggage to. Leaders Obama doesn’t have a tight relationship with. And international players have baggage Obama’s not even familiar with.
Where Obama had a chance in a church he’s been in for 20 years to effect change and be an instrument of reconciliation with the alienated in an area that seems of special interest to this Afro-centric church (namely, race), it appears he’s not done much of anything. Wright’s audience cheers and slaps him on the back when he makes the most outrageous and factually wrong claims.
If Obama had had the courage to help his close personal friend and Mentor know the truth better instead of preaching lies with bold authority to enthusiastic recipients of such words, perhaps people like me might lend him some credibility when he claims to be the change man and the unifier.
To add: One of the huge ironies, as I understand it, is that liberation theology (Wright’s express philosophy) — dependent as it is on identity politics and class (race) consciousness — renders almost impossible the kind of reconciliation that this church’s native son claims to be capable of delivering. Reconciliation at this stage in America’s history, Wright would surely believe, would opiate the masses and dissipate the “us/them” distinction liberation theology depends on. So Wright would find Obama’s project anathema, in a serious way. And on the other hand, Wright’s project makes Obama’s project all the more difficult, because it further alienates whites.
One may claim until the cows come home that Obama’s enemies are nit-picking the issues here, but it’s more complex than just Obama (it’s not all about him. really). Liberation theology is incompatible with the “Obama project” of change and unity. Really. Unless, of course, the Obama project is really just the goals of liberation theology cast in terms of “post-racial” so it goes down white throats easily.
I tend to doubt that — but it’s important to pursue the process of elimination here. I think it’s possible to augur some of the division, strife and regress an Obama administration is likely to create by paying close attention to Obama’s expedient approach to the Wright affair.
Texas, I’m not comparing Obama to Hitler, I’m poking a hole in your philosophy of overlooking people’s radical ideas.
Posted by: Cranky Catholic at March 18, 2008 2:51 PM
******************************
You didnt do it. The comparison was silly. Eva Braum doublessly agreed with Hitlers position.
Haha… I just saw video on TV of Jeremiah Wright complaining that the white people are trying to overturn Roe v. Wade. Well, we already knew he was racist and anti-American, so we probably could have guessed that he was also pro-abortion. Those three seem to go together.
Posted by: John Lewandowski at March 18, 2008 9:33 PM
************************
Trying to pretend that anyone who is pro choice is typically a racist and ‘anti-American’ is imbecilic. Its this kind of absurd hysterical irrational argument which makes the antichoice position look ridiculous. Nothing you say can be taken seriously after a statement this absurd.
S.
Maybe you could email it to me? If you ask Bethany for my email she can give it to you.
Here’s your hero’s, Mike Huckabee, talking about it:
“[Y]ou can’t hold the candidate responsible for everything that people around him may say or do. It’s interesting to me that there are some people on the left who are having to be very uncomfortable with what … Wright said, when they all were all over a Jerry Falwell, or anyone on the right who said things that they found very awkward and uncomfortable, years ago. Many times those were statements lifted out of the context of a larger sermon. Sermons, after all, are rarely written word for word by pastors like Rev. Wright, who are delivering them extemporaneously, and caught up in the emotion of the moment. There are things that sometimes get said, that if you put them on paper and looked at them in print, you’d say ‘Well, I didn’t mean to say it quite like that…
As easy as it is for those of us who are white to look back and say ‘That’s a terrible statement!’ … I grew up in a very segregated South. And I think that you have to cut some slack
Hal, the issue has so little to do with holding Obama accountable for what Wright said. It’s as if you don’t understand, again, that this is bigger than Obama. Obama’s a cog in a larger reality here, and it’s his role as a cog NOW — in trying to figure out how he’d do as a presidential cog — that’s the concern.
I’m voting for Obama since what Wright is speaking is the truth.
Racism is alive, well, and thriving in the USA and if you haven’t walked the walk, don’t even try and talk the talk. Oh, and that lame, “Some of my best friends are black”, speech is racist too. You don’t know us at all.
LOL…”you don’t know us at all”
Are you freaking kidding me? Us..them. THAT’S where the racism is at Deb. And those were YOUR words…not anybody else’s on here.
Based on his speech yesterday, I think he’d be an outstanding presidential cog.
Wait, didn’t you just post that in response to John Kass at the Trib? ;-)
Hal,
So why does Rev. Wright get a pass Hal? Did Don Imus get a pass? No? I think Obama called for his resignation…fair is fair Hal.
I’m voting for Obama because of hope and change, and change and hope, I’m hoping for change and changing for hope. Obama is about hope and change, change cannot happen without hope, hope cannot happen without change. Obama hopes things will change and will change things for hope.
A few months back I asked a friend if I could ask her a racist question – she gave me a narrow eyed look but said go ahead – I asked her why she could put a hat on and look sharp as a tack and i could put on the same hat and look like a fool … she started laughing and insisted ‘its a black thing’ –
So Hal, if Obama can’t “change” his mentor of so many years (by disabusing him of ridiculous myths such as that the U.S. govt. created AIDS for the purpose of killing Blacks), if after being a member of an activist church for 20 years his presence didn’t (apparently) diminish the congregation’s enthusiasm for the racially charged preaching of identity politics there — I mean, if he can’t even be an agent of change and unity in his church of 20 years nor influence one of his closest confidants toward moderation — how the hell do you imagine he’s going influence others in Washington, or around the world?
What’s it going to be Hal — he’s going make them swoon with his Obamaness?
Obama’s Speech Was an Act of Political Necessity, Not Courage
in the mean time he sold out his grandmother and embraced Rev Wright, what a joke.
Yeah, I do wonder what Obama’s mother thinks of all this.
As a Chicagoan — I think there is a good chance that his involvement with the Church was a way to build ‘cred’ in a community he was new to. So maybe he doesn’t agree.
Posted by: LB at March 18, 2008 3:54 PM
I think LB makes an interesting point above. I wonder, are Obama and Wright actually as “friendly” as we have been led to believe? How many times has Obama actually set foot in Wright’s church over the last twenty years? I don’t think we can necessarily assume “guilt by association”.
I don’t know what you mean by a “pass.” He probably isn’t feeling like he got a pass. All I’m saying is Huckabee’s right, let’s be a little more understanding and keep from over-blowing the whole thing.
Obama didn’t call for Imus to be fired. He said the employer would have to deal with it. He did say “he wouldn’t be working for me”
Aaargh! Janet, it doesn’t matter if Obama never attended. He claims to have a very close personal relationship with Wright. And Obama — as a changer and unifier — has apparently not been able to change this man’s mind about simple falsehoods, nor de-polarize his race-consciousness (liberation theology) philosophy in 20 years.
This isn’t about “guilt” for anything at all. It’s about whether Obama can fail to change and depolarize someone HE claims is an extremely close confidant, and yet go on to fulfil all the hype of change and unifying that he’s been promulgating.
Obama will be fine. You’ll see. Bill Clinton and GWB were both pretty polarizing. We survived. Obama will be more of a uniter, and smarter too.
Take abortion off the table (as it will be–nothing’s going to change on that issue anytime soon) and you have a liberal democrat who is smart and competent and a moderate republican who is smart and competent.
Everything is going to be ok. Relax.
Anecdote: professionally, it always amazes me how management will convene week-long seminars intended to infuse employees with the company vision, new goals, exciting ways of thinking about work, etc — and expect that having TALKED about change is sufficient to ENSURE it. Everyone gets excited! Yippee! Except for the Alices, Dilberts, and Wallys of the world who know better. Change is extremely hard work, and although idealism can motivate it, idealism is neither a sufficient nor a necessary prelude to “change.” As many things can motivate change as we can imagine.
Just now I notice that Senators are STILL defending earmarks — possibly the worst thing ever to infect our deliberative process. Notice: these people are accountable to the electorate. This should change. It hasn’t. Why? Because we LIKE the pork our reps bring our way.
Until citizens en masse actually care enough about the state of the union to cause change en masse by not being so damn selfish, hand-clasping glee regarding personalities who promise magical change may forgiveably be mistaken by some of us for sheer idiocy.
all i need to know is this:
Barack Obama is a pro-abortion baby killer.
the end.
oh, and janet,
Wright performed obama’s marriage, baptized his children and he has even credited wright with his “conversion” to Christianity.
yeah, they know each other very well.
all i need to know is this:
Barack Obama is a pro-abortion baby killer.
the end.
Posted by: elizabethb at March 19, 2008 1:52 PM
*********************
And just when did Obama kill any babies? and where did he do it? This kind of ‘argument’just makes antichoicers look ridiculous.
Yeah, I do wonder what Obama’s mother thinks of all this.
Posted by: Elizabeth at March 19, 2008 1:34 PM
***********
She’s dead.
I really don’t understand how a pro-life liberal can support Obama. Either abortion just isn’t very important to such a person, or she’s seriously suffering from cognitive dissonance.
Neither is true. I’ve written about this before, so instead of trying to sum it up, I’ll just link you here and here.
Holy crap.
Hal, are you trying to tell us that Andrew Sullivan is a conservative? Do you know anything about Andrew Sullivan? I’ll explain to you how his politics work.
Sullivan is like many pro-lifers, in that he is a single issue voter. But his single issue is not abortion. His issue? Sodomy. He will vote for whatever candidate he thinks will be the greatest supporter of his sodomy.
Sullivan used to be a Republican because his reasoning was that Republicans were fighting against the radical Islamists who would kill him for practicing sodomy.
But when Republicans started talking about banning gay marriage, Sullivan decided that Republicans were more dangerous to his right to sodomy than were Democrats, so he became a Democrat. THAT IS THE SUM TOTAL OF HIS THOUGHT PROCESS. Why anyone takes him seriously is beyond me. He’s a joke.
For you to go along with the insane idea that Sullivan is a conservative, when he’s really nothing but a single issue voter, voting for the candidate who is the best for his penis, is, well, insane.
And FYI, I hope it pleases you to know that after reading a pro-Obama editorial in my local leftist newspaper today, I finally decided to re-register as a Democrat so that I can vote for Hillary Clinton during the primary. That’s right, I’m voting for Hillary Freaking Clinton. That’s how big of a jerk Obama is, because if you asked me only one month ago if I would ever get riled up enough to change parties and actually vote for Hillary, I would have told you NO WAY.
TexasRed said: “Nothing you say can be taken seriously after a statement this absurd.”
Well, good, because I have yet to take anything you say seriously. There are a few pro-aborts on here that I have some basic level of intellectual respect for. You’re not one of them. So now we’re on an even playing field.
I mean, nevermind that most pro-aborts support PP, a historically racist organization. Nevermind that the vast majority of pro-aborts on here subscribe to a far-left, anti-American political ideology. Those facts don’t matter. Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
I’m a history major and I want someone to ask Rev. Wright the source of his statements about US causing AIDS (I had a cousin who died of AIDS who was white) that the US also knew about the bombing of Pearl Harbor before and did nothing to stop it and the US also caused 9/11 as well. Where is his source/s of this information? Are they at all credible or a complete nutcase?
Another thing, I want Barack to explain why almost 80% of abortion clinics are in minority neighborhoods, explain the Negro Project as well by Margaret Sanger as well too. As well as 3x’s as many black being aborted as white babies even though they make a much lower percent as white people do? Racism is racism, I don’t care who’s doing it or what color their their skin is, it’s still wrong.
Oh John, enjoy being a democrat. Sullivan is a true conservative. Small government, freedom, low taxes, etc. Are you? I read his writings almost daily. One of these days I’ll buy his book, the Conservative Soul.
I assume you’re voting for Hillary just because Rush asked you to, in his effort to create some controversy your new party.
And by the way, if we ever get to a point where you can get killed for sodomy, most of us better hide in the basement. I’m sure the vast majority of sodomy is practiced by hetersexuals.
Hal, enjoy your delusions.
I have explained my vote for Hillary on my blog if anyone’s interested. Oddly enough, I didn’t cite Rush Limbaugh.
John, LOL!
If Obama did not know what his pastor said and stands for, then why would you vote for someone who would belong to a church or call its pastor his mentor and not even know his stands? I found out months ago what the church stands for just by looking it up online…….if Obama can’t figure out how to do that, do you want him for Pres? And if he DID know what his church/pastor stand for, then why did he say he didn’t and why wouldn’t he disassociate himself? My husband and I are white, but when we began attending a church in a southern city while he attended a nearby university, it didn’t take us long to find out blacks were not welcome there. We agreed with the church in every other way, but could not remain in a church with such a policy. If we had remained, it would have meant we agreed.
Yes, John, you’re a real funny guy. “Delusions.” that cracks me up. You should have your own show, and Heather could watch and LOL all day.
Jen: “I believe in ending abortion via social progress.”
I believe in ending child abuse that way. Legalize it like abortion.
Good grief, the logic I hear sometimes. And your other link was just an exercise in creative swooning.
Seriously, if you can’t see Obama as a typical Pol, you’re a dupe.
People who look for political messiahs — and by golly believe HERE HE IS! DAG! — are some P.T. Barnum class suckahs.
Hal, calm down. You’re beginning to sound ridiculous.
ok Heather, I’ll calm down.
don’t want to sound ridiculous to you and John L.
Nate, Planned Parenthood clinics are in POOR neighborhoods. Women go to PP clinics because they are local and affordable. If you want to look at the cause of abortion then look at the number of minorities who are impoverished. Poor women have abortions because they dont have the resources to raise a child and it doesnt matter what ‘color’ they are. Abortion only makes up 3% of the services provided by Planned Parenthood. Someone said thats ‘misleading’ because abortion related care is figured into some other totals. OK lets say 10% is abortion or abortion related – that still leaves 90% of the care offered NOT abortion related.
I mean, nevermind that most pro-aborts support PP, a historically racist organization. Nevermind that the vast majority of pro-aborts on here subscribe to a far-left, anti-American political ideology. Those facts don’t matter. Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
Posted by: John Lewandowski at March 19, 2008 4:57 PM
**********************
Youre lying.
Hal, it is deluded to think that Andrew Sullivan is a conservative. Therefore, you are deluded. You calling him a “true conservative” would be as absurd as me calling Zell Miller a “true Democrat” or “true liberal”. Sullivan is on the fringes of conservatism if he can be called conservative at all. He supports the most liberal member of the US Senate for president. You do the math.
Yet ultimately it is wrong to classify Sullivan as either conservative or liberal. He’s a one issue voter; he votes with his penis (figuratively, not literally). I could have sworn I explained all of this already. I guess somebody wasn’t paying attention.
TexasRed, in what way am I lying? I know that Planned Parenthood is historically racist. I know that they were started as and remain a population control organization, and have historically been focused on eugenics, which is inherently racist. I know that most pro-aborts, and pretty much all of the pro-aborts who comment on this site, are extremist liberals. I also know that extremist liberals are constantly bashing America. So tell me, where am I wrong?
Whoops, sorry. I meant to say that Hal is delusional for thinking that Sullivan is conservative. I committed a little grammatical faux pas there. But I’m sure everyone knew what I meant, because it’s so obvious.
“I could have sworn I explained all of this already. I guess somebody wasn’t paying attention.”
Oh, I paid attention, I just didn’t agree. No one is more surprised to be supporting Obama than Sullivan is. But, he’s putting his faith in the goodness in the man above the partisan differences.
He wrote a whole long article about it a few months ago in the Atlantic. (and daily since at his blog)
Finally, who’s bashing America here? I haven’t heard any of that.
Yes, Andrew “John Kerry voter” Sullivan is shocked- SHOCKED! – that he’s now voting for the most liberal guy in the US Senate. Of course back in 2004, Kerry was the most liberal guy in the US Senate. Gimme a break, man. You can’t believe that dreck.
Face facts; Obama is worthless. Sullivan supports him just because Obama supports Sullivan in doing whatever he wants to do with his peepee. The sooner you realize that, the better off you’ll be.
And I didn’t say that anyone was bashing America on here, did I? I said that most of the pro-aborts on here are also far-leftists, and that far-leftists are constantly bashing America. I didn’t say that you were bashing America here – after all, it would be off topic – but I would pretty much expect to see you all doing so in other forums.
Hey Hal, did you attend this event?
http://www.patriotart.com/images/02_25_08/Baaarack1.jpg
I think I see you in that picture, but I’m not 100% certain.