Quote of the Day 12-9-10
Rev. Carlton Veazey – the president of the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice – talked to a young woman about the decision she had made as something very private, which involved her own circumstances and beliefs and her hopes for the future.
Others in the cozy waiting room listened intently – on one side, the patient’s mother and father and across the room, a young man and his partner who were holding each other. The patient’s mother was a woman of faith and she shook her head in agreement… knowing that the crowd outside, in front of the cameras, had nothing to do with the reality of her daughter’s abortion decision.
Rev. Veazey talked about those such as the individuals holding the press conference who want to pass laws that would force others to abide by their beliefs. The patient’s mother again agreed, knowing that her daughter was doing what was best for herself, given her own life and hopes. She fully understood that religious liberty means the freedom – and right – to live according to one’s own beliefs, with respect for the dignity of others….
We who believe in human rights must speak out at every opportunity to educate people about why women have a later-term abortion and why we must protect that right.
~Marjorie Signer, RH Reality Check, describing scenes inside LeRoy Carhart’s opening day at the Germantown, MD late-term abortion mill, December 8
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Seems like an awful lot of other people making what pro-aborts such as Marjorie would purport to be a personal decision. I guess it’s okay to have a lot of other people in your business, as long as they’re arguing for abortion.
I shudder to think where this daughter will be in 15 years emotionally. :(
And as for Carlton Veazey, the wolf in sheep’s clothing, I have this to say:
“Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe to stumble, it would be better for him if, with a heavy millstone hung around his neck, he had been cast into the sea.”
Carlton, you bring judgment on yourself. You are causing people to stumble in sin, and you are no better than the false prophets of Israel. You tell them what they want to hear, but you do not speak for the Lord.
Hopes and dreams and human rights, but not if you’re too small to defend yourself.
Human rights start at conception, when you actually come into being (existence in the physical world) as a human being. The most fundamental human right is life – none of the others matter if that one is destroyed.
Veazey, Signer and the rest are simply dangerous to humans.
You tell them what they want to hear, but you do not speak for the Lord.
Another Sinister Minister! What about the commandment “thou shalt not kill?” What about the dignity of the baby who was killed?
I think I mentioned my daughter called from her school crying because one of her classmates had an abortion at six months. She had a “baby bump” and even a picture of her son on ultrasound. Her reason for having an abortion? Having a baby would interfere with her education and her future.
This was a viable baby, not a “blob.” What about his future?
I just wonder how much this shill is getting paid.
How do pro-aborts sleep at night? Good heavens. I’m amazed at their lack of logic and their reliance on slogans as “arguments.” Hey, I want to run red lights/abuse animals/punch someone, but the lawmakers are forcing me to abide by their beliefs!
It is not a pro-life “belief” that life and the right to live begins at conception. It is the pro-abort “belief” that life begins and is only worth protecting when the mother says so. Ugh.
Idiots.
This whole place is painted as if it’s a holy place. She even refers to the waiting room as “cozy.” Does that mean incredibly SMALL, or warm and homey, or what? This is a place to go and kill your children.
The woman who wrote this article clearly has a screw loose along with Veazey. I won’t call him “Reverend,” because let’s be honest, he’s a poser.
Agreed Kel, “Reverend” would imply that this deceiver deserved a measure of respect.
When Jesus encountered the religious leaders of His day, the blind leading the blind, He gave them what He thought might help them recover themselves out of the snare of the evil one, a scathing rebuke.
This guy has no clue as to the peril he’s in. If it was possible to put a hood or a blindfold on “sleazy Veazey” so that he had no clue where he was; and to somehow block his ears so that he was totally deaf; and then set him loose to wander back and forth across a dark section of a 4 lane interstate in the dead of night; that would begin to describe the danger he’s in.
Absolutely the most important day of his life, his Judgment Day, will be here in a moment and he is totally unprepared: he’s got the shed blood of an innocent child on his hands.
Unless he repents his Judgment Day will hit him like an 18 wheel Mack truck.
I wish more religious leaders were like Rev. Veazey. He is exactly what a man of God living in the 21st century should be: steadfast in his convictions and yet aware and respectful of the necessary line between religious beliefs and an individual person’s private decisions.
Joan I hate to say it but you are as lost as Veazey.
But you make an excellent point. God is totally pro choice and like Veazey He respects your right to choose to live your life outside of His Will and contrary to His Laws.
He absolutely will not force you to love Him or obey Him.
If you don’t appreciate the sacrifice He made on your behalf, that is your decision.
If you do not want to become part of His family, He won’t make you.
But He and I both will mourn your decision.
You really sound like a deranged cult member. I’m Christian, I’ve said a number of times that I’m Christian, and you and everyone else here knows that. Yet that isn’t enough for you: I have to agree with you politically on top of it. Where does it end? If it wasn’t abortion, you and others would find some other personal belief of mine to attack and use to claim that I’m not a “real” believer. The ideological homogeneity some of the “Christians” here demand is absurd and untenable and will only drive more people away from the faith.
joan, what is it that makes you a Christian?
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: I don’t have to defend or justify my beliefs to you or anyone else.
I’m sorry Joan, if you are a Christian then I stand corrected.
But like Kel asked, what do you believe makes you a Christian. No criticism here, just curiosity.
Many of my posts are critical in nature but are only intended to sharpen our focus on what God has made plain in His Word.
It was a genuine question, joan. You claim you are a Christian, but you’re not willing to qualify that statement.
You can claim you’re an astronaut, too, but unless you have the credentials and training, then all you’re doing is claiming it and fooling yourself.
Ed sounds nowhere close to deranged. If you are a Christian, you should know that Christ very much expected people to “go and leave [their] life of sin.”
Personal intellectual assent does not qualify if you do not follow the tenets of Christianity and of Christ.
The only person you’ll have to justify your “beliefs” to is Christ Himself.
For example, Jesus said that many or most people will not make it into Heaven (Mt 7.13-14). That obviously sent up a red flag for me many years ago and I immersed myself into religious studies to try to understand what Jesus meant by that.
After a couple of years, I realized that He meant exactly what He said.
Such an opinion would certainly sound “cult-like” to the masses, yet that is what He said and what I believe.
Joan I would humbly and respectfully encourage you to check out the testimony of Stojan Adasevic in the archives section of this website under Conversion Stories. He was an abortionist until God miraculously intervened in his life.
None of us is perfect and none of us knows it all.
May God open the eyes of both of our hearts that we may see more clearly how we can love and please Him.
“Personal intellectual assent does not qualify if you do not follow the tenets of Christianity and of Christ.
The only person you’ll have to justify your “beliefs” to is Christ Himself.”
And your sole basis for implying that I do not follow those tenets is that I don’t share your political beliefs. That’s offensive. You are essentially claiming that there is a political test for being a Christian. In that context, it should be obvious why I’m not willing to sit here and try to convince you of my piety. I doubt you’ve made it your business to ask anyone else here to qualify their Christianity.
My sole basis? Oh, heck no. I’ve read your posts long enough. And all I did was ask because you got incredibly defensive about it.
I genuinely would like to know what you believe makes one a Christian.
respectful of the necessary line between religious beliefs and an individual person’s private decisions
This is a dead giveaway that you are not a Christian. It is possible that you give intellectual assent to certain Christian tenets but you do not believe a person must individually, personally follow the tenets of that faith in their decision-making.
And this: If there were such a thing as an absolute and objective standard of morality there wouldn’t even be the potential for disagreement about certain things.
Another dead giveaway.
Your comments about Trig Palin – ridiculing a child with a disability and/or the family of that child, in comparing them to him. That was hideous. But you don’t care, and you continued to make jokes about it.
Your comments and continual mocking tone and disdain toward Carla, a woman who is a true Christian who stands up and tells others about how abortion hurts women.
You are no Christian, joan. You are a pretender, and a very bad one at that.
“My sole basis? Oh, heck no. I’ve read your posts long enough. And all I did was ask because you got incredibly defensive about it.”
Why shouldn’t I be defensive about it? You’re scrutinizing my beliefs in a way that you wouldn’t ever scrutinize anyone else’s here.
“This is a dead giveaway that you are not a Christian. It is possible that you give intellectual assent to certain Christian tenets but you do not believe a person must individually, personally follow the tenets of that faith in their decision-making.”
Dead giveaway? Really? I’m not a Christian because I don’t believe someone, who may or may not even be a Christian herself, should be required to adhere to what another person’s individual interpretation of Christian religious obligations are? Why should the girl in the example, whose religious beliefs are not stated, “individually, personally” adhere to tenets of a religion she may not even belong to? Or do you just go around assuming everyone is a Christian until they express political preferences you don’t like?
“You are no Christian, joan. You are a pretender, and a very bad one at that.”
All I can say is that you apparently have some really novel ideas about judging someone else’s religiosity. It’s really ridiculous that you honestly think I would lie about my beliefs in the first place, as if there would be something to gain from convincing small-minded people like you that I’m something I’m not.
Joan,
Because you say you are a Christian, I must believe that at some point the story of the Gospel rang true in your heart. At some point you recognized, like all of us professing faith in Jesus, that you were a sinner in need of a Savior.
I am a sinner too, big time.
And thank God, by the riches of His mercy and grace, He doesn’t give up on us but continues to work on our hearts with the ultimate goal of Christlikeness, transforming us into the image of His Son.
Each of us has our own path of personal sanctification, He is the Potter, we are the clay. My prayer for you echoes the prayer for my own heart, that you will remain open to His work in your life, that He will complete His work, and that you will bear abundant fruit for His Kingdom.
All that, and you still haven’t even said what you believe makes anyone a Christian.
That’s fine.
For a clergyman to go into an abortion clinic to give aid and comfort to those about to kill their children, one would think a true Christian, if they believed in actual sin and punishment as a result of sin, would speak the truth of God’s Word into that situation. It is possible to speak truth and do so with compassion. Murdering innocents is wrong. It is sin. It is condemning an innocent human to death. Veazey decided he would go in and basically say, “Hey, no prob. I understand. Just ignore the fact that those jerks outside are saying what you’re doing is murder.” If Veazey believed God’s Word, he would in no way contribute to the further stumbling of people into greater sin.
There are personal choices which are SIN, joan. It’s not up to individual interpretation. A clergyman should know the difference. A clergyman should be there to say, “Please don’t do this. I will adopt your baby. Come to Christ, there is a better way. Go now, and leave your life of sin.” ANYTHING but to excuse the offing of an inconvenient human being! Killing someone because you don’t believe they’re “persons” and because you’d rather believe they’re expendable is most certainly what we can expect from non-Christians. But for one who claims to be Christian AIDING and COMFORTING a person in that? Patting them on the hand and excusing their sin? No. Absolutely unacceptable.
You’ve proven my point again. The tenets of the religion you claim to believe in are not just “religious preferences.” If you believe in Christ, then you must believe the Word of God and what He said about Himself and follow Scripture. You stated elsewhere that you do not believe in “an absolute and objective standard of morality.” If you are a Christian, then you must believe that indeed, there IS an absolute standard of morality, as laid out in the Bible.
How do you defend your statements about Trig Palin and your derisiveness toward Carla, a “fellow Christian?” Carla does not agree with you “politically” and you saw fit to attempt to discredit her, showed her no compassion, and insinuated she was making her post-abortion experience up. All because she does not agree with you “politically.”
People who are pro-choice do not believe abortion is murder any more than you believe that stepping on a bug is murder. Until you grasp and come to terms with that, you obviously will be incapable of having a civil disagreement with other people. But really, that’s your loss, not mine, because once you step out of the echo chamber you’re going to have a hard time restricting your interactions to people who have beliefs identical to your own.
As for the other distractions you’re attempting to bring into this argument to discredit me, I simply have no further comment. You’re trying to personally smear me as an unreasonable or vicious person, but I’m not going to indulge your ad hominem attacks.
People who are pro-choice do not believe abortion is murder any more than you believe that stepping on a bug is murder.
Wow, no belief humans are “created in God’s image” or anything? Huh.
But really, that’s your loss, not mine, because once you step out of the echo chamber you’re going to have a hard time restricting your interactions to people who have beliefs identical to your own.
Well, if I lived in an echo chamber, this might actually apply, but it doesn’t.
As for the other distractions you’re attempting to bring into this argument to discredit me
?? What would those be? Now I’m just confused. OH, wait… you’re talking about how you’ve smeared both Carla, a post-abortive Christian, and Trig Palin, a disabled toddler. Yeah, I don’t blame you for walking away from that stuff… I would, too, if I were you.
You’re trying to personally smear me as an unreasonable or vicious person, but I’m not going to indulge your ad hominem attacks.
In case you have forgotten, you were the one who posted here stating how every clergyman should be like Veazey. I have addressed those statements. And stating killing unborn humans is the equivalent of stepping on a bug… well, let’s just say I don’t think I need to say any more. You’ve done that all by yourself.
Goodnight, “joan.”
I’ve asked this before and I’ll ask it again, addressing the pro-choice activists here, giving you something to ponder: How can you, in good conscious support a troubled abortion provider such as Carhart (he has had numerous malpractice lawsuites against him for incomplete abortions, neglect, injuries, etc.) and support elective abortions on healthy, fully-developed fetuses primarily for socio-economic reasons ( which according to AGI composes 98 percent of 2nd trimester and post-viability abortions)
Leroy Carhart is one of the few people willing to take up the risks and burdens of providing this service. In an ideal world there would be thousands of men just like him who are willing to take that stand, but the reality is that few people want to subject themselves and their loved ones to that kind of stress and danger. I guess that’s one “victory” anti-abortion rights activists can claim: they’ve made one particular form of abortion more taboo than others.
The whole point about being a Christian is to be free to CHOOSE THE GOOD – the ULTIMATE GOOD in the most profound God-centered, big hearted and non-sinful way. We are called to create the very the very best for a situation– to step away from sin and helping others to sin no more.
So may I pose a point? What if an abortion is not like squashing a bug?
What if, instead of being nothing, irrelevant and unimportant, it instead is one of the most important decisions that someone can make?
What if it changes history (it does), what if it changes families (it does) and what if it’s murder (it is). what if it’s complete sin and selfishness?
I hope that being a God-fearing person (in the very best sense of the word), and a Christian, and one would open one’s heart to the ultimate good and re-think a position, especially if it’s against the tenets of Faith.
I hope that one would err on the side of caution, instead of being wedded to an ideology, and see truly what is at stake.
When I was a child, I thought as a child, and now my eyes are open. I see things differently and live my life differently.
Maybe years and experience changes things, but i would hope that there would be a glimmer of hope to realize that ending a life, even a little life, is serious business best to be avoided.
Let’s pray for conversion of heart. People can call themselves anything they want, and if they don’t live it yet, then there is more growing to do, hopefully sooner than later.
Ok Joan, you’ve lost me.
You’re commending the work of a late term abortionist?
So a 9 month old baby (gestation) that is killed on one side of a mother’s cervix is like squashing a bug but if killed on the other side of her cervix it’s child abuse and murder???
Surely you’re smarter than that.
I wonder if Veazey was in the past somehow involved in a loved one’s abortion and his activism is a way of justifying it?
I’ve heard him attack prolifers verbally and besides from his abortion advocacy, he doesn’t seem like a very godly man.
Hey, commenter named Joan, I know I’ve been pretty snarky to you in comments before. But today is a fresh new day. So, I’ve studied the history of Christianity pretty extensively for years. Historically, there are some basic dogmatic points that all Christians have agreed on, whether they are Greek Orthodox, Baptist, Lutheran, or Catholic just to name a few.
These agreed upon points include: 1) Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary. 2) Jesus was crucified by Pontius Pilate. 3) Jesus died. 4) Jesus was buried. 5) Jesus rose from the dead. 6) Jesus ascended into heaven.
Now, after those 6 points, Christians may start to disagree. But on these, virtually all churches concur. My question is: Do you believe each of these 6? If not, which of the 6 do you not believe? Do you believe in dogma that is not included in these 6? I’m just curious. I know you’re pro-choice and I swear I will not jump on you and say, aha! or anything like that. I genuinely want to know out of curiosity.
-Ninek
To Christians, I have had many discussions with atheists and agnotics about what it means to be a Christian. A lot of my non-christian friends have a vague sense that being Christian means never judging anyone, and being kind of Gandhi-like. Last summer, I actually told a friend, “You’ve got Jesus mixed up with Buddha or someone else.”
oh Joan – as a preemie born at 6 months of gestation, I find it totally unbelievable that you would find it just fine regarding late-term abortion.
When I was born, my living was thought to be impossible. Indeed, my older sister was born two weeks gestation shy of me, and she only lived a day.
Every time you post, the pro-abortion sentiment is more extreme. Too bad. Remember, when we arbitrarily draw a line in what we say is ok to do to a class of humans, we open ourselves up to be one day on the receiving end of the same human-rights-denying.
The only just thing is to help protect all humans, no matter their size, age, ability, color, geographic location, sex, demographic, social standing, functioning etc… Then we can truly call ourselves protectors of the human race. All else falls short, and is based on a shifting line of inclusiveness.
I thought we were more loving than that.
I don’t think Joan is female. and he certainly isn’t a Christian. I’m not sure why the commenter poses as one; perhaps he wants to discourage other Christians, mislead them to think pro-life Christians are a minority. Sometimes the comments are so unbelievably cold and inhuman, I wonder if he sits back from his keyboard and laughs at some of it. Crazy stuff.
I would agree with that assessment, ninek.
Hard to believe that a “woman” named Joan could be a mother, wife or aunty with that kind of cold and bitter hatred. He is a troll.