Lunch Break: “Somebody needs to pay for all my children!”
by LauraLoo
Apparently Angel Adams of Tampa, FL, doesn’t think it should be her responsibility to financially provide for her 15 children conceived through 3 baby daddies. Angel and the youngest of her dozen children were evicted from an apartment, homeless and hungry. But the story of going in and out of court continues.
Who should pay for these children? The parents (Angel, plus each baby daddy)? Social services? Assistance through a variety of pregnancy care centers? Obamacare?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bavou_SEj1E&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
It’s times like these that I respect Octomom – at least she admitted her sin of crazy schemes to conceive and tries to find work to provide for her family.
It’s times like these that I think of married couples wanting children and cannot have them.
Email LauraLoo with your Lunch Break suggestions.
[HT: Drudge Report]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
I think it’s very dangerous to advocate forced sterilizations. What makes up your definition of extreme situations? What about when someone else’s definition becomes two children that you can’t/won’t provide for? Who starts deciding what can’t/won’t provide for meant? While the effects of this woman’s actions, and the suffering of her children as a result, are very sad and wrong, putting this kind of power over others in the hands of sinful mankind will always be disastrous
I just saw that while I was writing this, the part of forced sterilizations was removed from the post. I think that is very good.
“Somebody needs to pay for all my children!”
This should be changed to “Somebody needs to pay for all OUR children!”
It takes two to tango.
Its her attitude that leads to abortion. The attitude of “Somebody else needs to pay for my poor choices!”
I feel bad for her little ones who are truly innocent. I am all for helping those in need but this woman is immoral, makes bad choices in men obviously and is lazy.
her 15 children conceived through 3 baby daddies. Angel and the youngest of her dozen children were evicted
Is it 15 kids or 12? If 15, then she might as well fire up one more and be “Double-Octomom.”
Hey Doug -
I was curious as well. It seems that she has 15 children in total, 12 of whom are minors and living with her.
It’s tough to know what to do in this situation, in a pragmatic way. I mean obviously “she should have made better choices,” but she didn’t, and now 12 kids are suffering for it. Do you leave her to lie in the bed she made? Can you? I don’t think so. But what do you do, then? It’s not like all she needs is a leg up and a job, a Microsoft Office class and a donated interview suit – she needs serious support in every way, for the coming decade and a half at least. What does it say if you provide that support? What does it say if you don’t?
I have sometimes wondered if there isn’t some way to [legally] use the prison workforce to perform small jobs or local tasks, and rather than having the money earned from that work go to the prison or whoever, have it go into a fund to supplement the child-support payments that will obviously not be made while the father is in prison. Or, if not to directly supplement child-support, to fund assistance or mentoring programs to help children whose parents are in prison. If involuntary servitude is a legal problem then maybe it could be a choice for certain low-level offenders – no work in a crappy prison or work in a slightly nicer facility – so that it’s voluntary. I don’t know. I don’t know enough about the system and the legalities to really hash out a plan – it just seems idiotic to have so many people so idle for so many years, when their crimes are often fairly small (drug possession etc). Not that all of those people would be earning on-the-books wages and supporting their children if they weren’t in prison, but that’s another topic. All I can really say on that topic is, I would like to know where the child support payments from the two non-jailed fathers are.
She and her children are in need.
Sorry that she feels so entitled to be taken care of by someone. Most likely the government but aren’t there any local churches that will help her and her children out in the name of Jesus?
No doubt about it that she and her children need help.
Alexandra, prisoners work low paying jobs (like 13 cents an hour) to pay for their own food, TV, and things they need like deodorant, toothpaste, shampoo etc…
I know this because I have a family member in prison. So you are not going to have prisoners working to take care of women like this lady. They are trying to take care of themselves. Maybe she should learn a lesson.
Can’t the older ones watch the children while she finds a job and acquires some skills? She has time to lay down and make 15 children but she doesn’t have time to work? Even if she scrubs toilets for money. Do something to support yourself! Please.
Wow. Sydney. Sometimes people need help.
Shall we only help those that live up to your standard? The moral, the upright, the not lazy, the ones that don’t lay down with others?
There is an opportunity here and I pray it is not missed.
Sydney, I believe that the children she has living with her max out, age-wise, around 12 or so – but go down to something like 2 years old. Who should watch them while she goes out to work? Surely you don’t think they should just be left alone for 40-60 hours a week. What about the ones who aren’t in school yet?
I am fully aware that prisoners work for things. As I said, I don’t know enough about the system to fully hash out a plan, but I have rarely ever accepted “it’s not going to happen” as reason enough on its own to avoid challenging current norms and policies. I also have had family members in prison and I know that they spent a whole lot of time doing nothing, or occasionally working low-paying jobs to buy toiletries. I would rather they spent that time, say, cleaning NYC subway stations and donating, however involuntarily, the fee to the families of their fellow inmates. We say that prison is about paying a debt to society but all it does is leave these people owing more to society than when they went in – owing their families all kinds of emotional and financial support. I think that prison increases the debt to society by the effects it sometimes has. It doesn’t need to be that way – I am not saying that no one should be in prison; I’m saying, why waste the time that people are in prison, and leave their dependents in the lurch as a result.
What “lesson” do you think this woman could learn, that would help her? I am not saying that there are not lessons that could help her. But I don’t think “you should have thought of that before” is a really helpful lesson after the fact.
It seems to me that this woman feels especially entitled to help. I think she should have help but I think it would be valuable for her to get it from people she had to say ‘thank you’ to. Not from some faceless agency but from flesh-and-blood people who organized a food train and dropped meals off one by one, etc.
When I was in high school my extracurricular club would always “adopt” several families each Christmas, and fill their wish lists. Many of these families had lots of kids, some of these families had no fathers. We bought them winter coats and school supplies and books all the same. The summer after I graduated I was playing a charity music concert for a low-income summer camp and I saw a picture on a bulletin board of a boy who had the same name as a boy in one of the families we had ‘adopted.’ I had never the children, but I was still pretty sure he was the boy I’d picked out a new coat for. He was so happy in his picture – demonstrating a ‘tree pose’ as part of their yoga exercise unit – smiling and giggling and falling off balance even as the picture was taken; “slightly chubby” just as his mother had described when giving us the ages and descriptions of her children. He was so happy that it almost made me cry. Whatever his mother had done wrong or right in her life, I wanted to make sure that little boy always stayed that happy. It was eleven years ago and I still remember his eyes. I hope that whenever he needed help, someone helped him. I hope he doesn’t need help anymore. I hope he’s still smiling like that.
Children don’t need to be homeless and starve because their parents suck. Sorry she doesn’t make good enough choices for people to think she “deserves” help, but there isn’t any reason the kids should be hungry or not have anywhere to live. I don’t see how the kids could be babysitters to all the little ones. Don’t you think they deserve and education and a chance to better themselves and not go the same route as their mother.
People don’t work all the time in prison, there is a lot of sit around and boredom and other things. They don’t even “have” to work at all, in some states. I fully support programs that have the prisoners actually working for the community, it seems like it would possibly work on that “rehabilitation” and “functional member of society” part of crime that we seem to be lacking in. Source: I have been in jail, and there were tons of hours I could have spent helping the community rather than sitting on my rear.
Carla I agree with your statements.
I also think this is an example of poor governmental “assistance.” The government is acting like a bunch of busy bodies and do-gooders. The government is not providing assistance, they are taking over.
The government, and people like Jack Borsch, appear to be eager to congratulate themselves on the “good” decisions they have done. To me that attitude sounds cold. What options does this Mother have? Even if she were start work immediately she would still require money for rental deposits, security, food, clothing, furniture, etc… To me, her complaint, though sounding awful, is a cry for help. I think one has to be completely insensitive not to hear it. The government has made this process far too adversarial and are too antagonistic towards the Mother.
This is where the Church and regular folk can do a much better job of assisting this Mom. Alexandra you made some excellent points.
I was being sarcastic, Tyler, about the attitude that this mom doesn’t “deserve” help because she made choices that they think are wrong. It would be weird for me to congratulate myself for good decisions, because I haven’t really made many. If I hadn’t had help I would still be making as poor or poorer decisions than this woman. Sorry my sarcasm didn’t come across right.
Jack, I am 100% behind you on your comments on this post.
In New York, if a prisoner or inpatient does work, you have to pay them minimum wage. I know because my father was a psychiatrist and we lived at a inpatient mental institution when they passed the law, and suddenly, everyone sat in their rooms all day instead of going out and working. Which often meant clipping an invisible blade of grass over and over for 4 hours. Or obsessing over a recalcitrant wrinkle in a shirt being ironed.
And also in New York, where I was once a child services investigator, these children would all be in foster care SO fast you wouldn’t have time to think about it. Would we work towards “reunification?” Yes, because we always do. But would it ever happen? I doubt it. 2 years in foster care and they would be surrendered for adoption, and if she kept cranking them out, they’d probably be released as soon as they were born.
You can’t just be pro-pre-born life. You have to be pro-breathing-air-life too. And y’all really should be putting your money where your mouth is. Not just the government helps people, non-profits help people too. Want to save the un-born? Make sure the born have a place to live, food to eat, and clothes to wear. Note well: I didn’t say that first.
It’s obvious this woman shouldn’t be having irresponsible sex, but at least she didn’t abort these children. Maybe there’s an inventor in the bunch. Greatness can come out of the worst of circumstances.
Duck/Reality
How is it going?
Going just fine, well still sick, and end of term papers and exams. How about yourself Tyler?
Not bad. I have been reading Peter Singer’s Animal Liberation.
Oh boy, have fun with that read.
Sorry Jack for not getting your sarcasm right away. Excellent post.
Wow. Carla. I don’t want to pay for other people’s immorality. I was not immoral. I saved myself for my husband. Because I didn’t jump on every man who sauntered my way I should pay for others who did? My husband and I have a hard enough time taking care of our own family. We should pay for people like this with this attitude of “You owe me”. THIS IS WHAT IS WRONG WITH AMERICA. Maybe i should like run around with 50 men right now and when I get diseases or have babies with men who will not care for them demand you pay for my mistakes?
You want to help her? Go right ahead. I am not stopping you. Stop looking down your nose at my righteous indignation over people who CONSISTENTLY make immoral decisions and then expect those of us who DIDN’T to take care of them. This is SOCIALISM. It doesn’t work. Its wrong. Its immoral and if you read your Bible it also says if you don’t work you don’t eat. The CHURCH should take care of the widows (which she is not) and the fatherless (which these kids for all intents and purposes are thanks to their selfish mother). When churches help the poor there is ACCOUNTABILITY. Thats whats lacking here.
So dig deep into your pockets and help her if you want. I am tired of subsidizing selfish immoral behavior that destroys the fabric of our society…stable family units.
And heres a question for all you bleeding hearts. How is more social services going to help her? She has ALREADY USED SOCIAL SERVICES AND WELFARE. It really did GREAT for her didn’t it? Oh you wonderful compassionate people.
She’s living in a freaking hotel room with 12 kids!!!! Good grief people. Can’t you see welfare is a stick beating people down?
Read Star Parker’s book. maybe if this woman had had to step up to the plate with the first baby she wouldn’t be in the freaking predicament she is now. Some of you on this thread irritate the crap out of me with you zero accountability. Everyone’s a victim, right? No one is accountable. We got it.
You can fornicate, do drugs, kill babies, hey even throw your born babies in a creek and YOU’RE JUST A ViCTIM AND SOMEBODY ELSE IS AT FAULT. I’m sure you can rob banks and kill cops too and you’ll never be held accountable by the bleeding hearts on this thread.
Good grief. Compassion is great but would you release all murderers from prison because of your bleeding hearts? Sometimes tough love is needed. Star Parker would argue that well intentioned but misguided folks like you are the reasons millions languish in poverty. You are not helping this woman by keeping her in the SAME situation she has been in for the last 15 years.
On the whole, I agree with your posts here Sydney. It just seems the fathers are left out of all the anger here. You say, “and the fatherless (which these kids for all intents and purposes are thanks to their selfish mother)”
These children all have dads and we’re not hearing too much about them. One dad of two was shown on the video but we don’t hear if he will take his two. Another dad has three children with this woman and I wonder if he has stepped up to the plate? The others are all from the same man. The men are just as guilty for continuing to have sex with a woman who obviously is not handling parenting very well.
I’d like to hear a story on the fathers so that we can pass a little judgement on them too.
Tyler, I agree with this: The government is not providing assistance, they are taking over
When the mom is chastised for swearing in front of her kids, I understood her being upset. This doesn’t downplay her own poor, poor choices and her language but I do sympathize with her because foster care has someone that the kids must call their “house mother”.
In spite of how screwed up their parents might be, kids still love their parents and don’t want to call someone else mom and dad without them choosing to themselves. I don’t think any parent here would want their child to call someone else ‘mother’ or ‘father’.
This woman didn’t become dependent on the system over night. They’ve know about her for a long time. Our enabling system has helped create this mess and we need to fix the system. Yes, we need to help. We need to help her and the fathers to help themselves.
“Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.”
So I read this site daily, but don’t really comment a whole lot. I did have some thoughts on this story. It seems to me that there is a lot of judging going on here, and to a certain point that judgement is warranted. Yes, this woman has been living a pretty immoral lifestyle, and it seems that her own attitude and lifestyle is causing suffering not only for herself but also for her children. It is a bit infuriating to hear someone like that have an attitude of entitlement – “Someone needs to pay for MY children.” It is only natural to feel disgusted by that.
However, here is the thought I had. After feeling a bit self righteous, I then was reminded (probably by my Guardian Angel) that I am really not the one who can take credit for not living the same lifestyle this woman has lived. Of course, we are accountable for our actions, but everyone has a sinful human nature. Some of us however, have been given the grace and circumstances in our lives to be taught better and understand that sinful nature. We have better tools to overcome that sinful nature. I am personally not in that woman’s position, but I am not because I had two parents who loved me, taught me right from wrong, and gave me a Faith to lead me after I left their home. I am not where that woman is because God blessed me abundantly in a way that woman was obviously not blessed. What if I hadn’t had those things? What if my parents had not taught me right from wrong or even been present in my life? What if I hadn’t had my Faith to sustain me the way that it has? Heaven knows I have personally made lots of mistakes even with the tools God provided for me! What if I had been given the life this woman has had to live? Honestly, I can’t know that I wouldn’t have ended up in her position. I have no right to be self righteous – the only reason I am not there is because of God and the Faith and blessings He gave me.
I am in no way advocating empowering this woman to continue in her mistakes. She needs to be taught in charity what many of us were privileged enough to be taught through other means. Pointing out to her that living the type of lifestyle she is living is what is causing her suffering and giving her the tools to avoid that lifestyle would be a good place to start (by tools, I mean real tools that heal her soul – example, instruction, prayer, etc.) This would be a great situation where the Church would have been involved in the past – the nuns providing a place to stay and help with childcare, but there would be no way that woman would be allowed to bring a man home with her – no more “baby daddies” for her. Helping her understand where true love and happiness lies, and it is not in the arms of a man who isn’t going to respect her enough to marry her before trying to live in that state. Obviously that isn’t as much of an option now (at least not in our current society), but it seems that our social system fails because it tries to remain secular. You can’t take God out of the equation and have much success. I don’t know what the answer is in her particular situation. I know that overall, those of us who were given the grace to avoid those types of mistakes and lifestyles need to spend less time being self righteous about it and more time thanking God that we were spared that. It seems to me the best way to thank God for that is to pass it on by charitably teaching when we have the opportunity, remaining open to His grace and inspirations so that He can use us in other people’s lives, and helping others as much as possible in a way that is going to actually be helpful to them. Prayer has a way of helping not only the one being prayed for but also the one doing the praying. I guess that is probably the best place to start for this woman. God will lead and give inspirations as to where to go from there – we just need to remain open to those inspirations and be brave enough to follow through with them when they are given.
You go ahead and cast that first stone, Sydney. WWJD right?
Is that how soup kitchens are run? Homeless shelters? Food shelves?
Are you immoral? Do you lay down with others? Are you lazy? Sorry, no soup for you!! Call her a whore and then give her a couple of beds for the night, right?
There is a cycle that needs to be broken in this family. I never said WELFARE is the answer!! Perhaps she learned it from her mother?? We can break the cycle of”entitlement!!!” We can reach out to help the innocent children so they do not continue this cycle. Is the mother wrong? YES!! Her thinking is absolutely screwed up!!! Can she learn a better way? A different way? OR do we have to teach her “a lesson” first?
Your comments make me ill. Sorry I irritate the crap outta you. I have read enough of your condemnation of others to last me a lifetime.
From
Your bleeding heart, not as moral as you, self righteous friend
Pro Life Catholic,
Excellent post!! Thank you!
I agree in part with Sydney – somewhere this woman learned to be entitled to full government assistance, or socialism.
Sadly, the victims are her children who have terrible role models regarding their mom and those 3 deadbeat dads. How many of those children are also going to lean on us taxpayers when they too start conceiving children?
On the other hand, once the children are here, no one should starve or be out of clothing. This mom needs to do something to earn her assistance, even if it’s 4 hours a day, to break the entitlement mentality. Serve at a church or non-profit orgnaization if she doesn’t have marketable skills, they will be able to teach her some of the fundamentals.
Also, I hope the older of the dozen children are attending school. Some schools provide (again at taxpayer expense) a free meal during the day. For some children, sadly, this is the only good meal of their day.
This is such a complex issue but I do know that we should not continue to 100% pay for her and her childrens’ expenses. And if those 3 dads have jobs, their wages need to be garnished pronto, with arrearage payments. I do this as a regular part of my payroll administration function.
LL
Carla, what is it with you? Anyone disagrees with you and you automatically get hysterical and accuse that person of wanting to “cast stones” and call people names. Did I call her a whore? No. Did I say we should stand around and scream at her? NO.
I am saying that she should not keep receiving tax dollars that have done nothing but subsidize her immorality. How has it helped her so far? It hasn’t!
You know what? “You cast the first stone” WWJD? Well I will tell you what He didn’t do. He didn’t keep enabling people to sin Carla! You seem to have a real problem with calling sin SIN! You constantly confuse calling out people on the issue of sin with somehow hating those people or wanting to call them names etc…
Jesus didn’t say to the woman taken in adultery “Well here you go. Here is a couple shekels. You go right back and hop into bed with that man who is not your husband.” Now did He Carla? No. But thats the attitude you seem to have. That we should just give this woman food, shelter, clothes, medical care, spend money… no accountability. Just keep handing her government assistance courtesy of moral, hard-working people.
I am not saying NOBODY should help her. I am saying that Christians should step forward and provide her NEEDS (not her wants) and help her realize the mess she’s made with her sin.
I’m sure this lady has been on welfare for years. How has it helped her? Did it teach her not to jump into bed with every felon that came down the road? No! She has 15 children she can’t care for and the men in her life are gone. I highly doubt that woman has any peace of joy in her life. I think welfare is cruel. It enslaves people.
Because I state such a thing you automatically accuse me of wanting to call her names. Nice Carla. I will never understand how you jump to such nasty conclusions when you know me but that really hurts my feelings.
And heres a question for all you bleeding hearts. How is more social services going to help her? She has ALREADY USED SOCIAL SERVICES AND WELFARE. It really did GREAT for her didn’t it? Oh you wonderful compassionate people.
Where do you see anyone talking about welfare? I specifically said:
“It seems to me that this woman feels especially entitled to help. I think she should have help but I think it would be valuable for her to get it from people she had to say ‘thank you’ to. Not from some faceless agency but from flesh-and-blood people who organized a food train and dropped meals off one by one, etc.”
Even the story I told about the little boy – that was not a government welfare program.
Laura Loo,
This clip only invites this kind of dialogue.
Got anything of a young single mom with 4+ kids working 3 jobs, putting herself through college, getting food on the table and thanking God for everything she has?
Sydney: And heres a question for all you bleeding hearts. How is more social services going to help her? She has ALREADY USED SOCIAL SERVICES AND WELFARE. It really did GREAT for her didn’t it? Oh you wonderful compassionate people.
She’s living in a freaking hotel room with 12 kids!!!! Good grief people. Can’t you see welfare is a stick beating people down?
Sydney, I don’t think there is any perfect system, especially one that would necessarily deal well with a situation like this one, which is certainly a statistical outlier.
In general, though, what can be done? I don’t think people should do things they can’t pay for, but now that the kids are here, what will we do? The most basic incentive is, “Okay, you don’t work, then you starve.” We’re not going to apply that. I also don’t think it really works to just dump money on and around such people. So, somewhere in the middle is where we end up, and from that position it’s hard to accommodate deals like the woman with 15 kids.
I am not the one who is hysterical, Sydney.
I suggest when your first emotion is ANGER you step away from the computer.
AND AGAIN where did I say to NOT hold her accountable, to give her more welfare, that MORE hand outs are the answer????
And why in the world are we surprised that a woman is in the system and lives off of it?? Why do we berate her for taking what is offered and then get upset when she can’t get off it? It is DESIGNED to foster a dependence.
I guess I don’t feel the need to run around calling others sinners and that they lack morals. And yes I do know the story of the woman caught in adultery. More than you will ever know.
So you can rant but nobody else can disagree without a personal attack? Ok.
No, you invite this type of dialogue Carla. God forbid we call out the obvious. That this woman has not lived a moral life. That would be “judging”. Well so be it. I judge. All the time. If I saw a man mugging a woman I would call him out on that too. How dare I, right?
When I have made sinful choices in my life I had fellow Christians point out my errors to me. Thank God they cared enough for my soul instead of letting me live on in sin. The Lord chastens who He loves. He calls us to be the salt of the earth. The light on the hill. Shouldn’t we be exposing the unfruitful works of darkness? I guess not. Lets just pretend this woman IS owed something and that her lifetime of fornication is hunky dory.
Alexandra, thats what this whole clip is about. At least that is what I got out of it and the comments… that she wants government help and everyone “Oh this poor woman… she needs help.” I took that to mean welfare. Thats my only point. Not that a church shouldn’t help her but that she should not keep receiving tax payer money.
“Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day.”
You are stating the obvious, Sydney. If it is obvious why would we need to call it out??
SHE IS NOT LIVING A MORAL LIFE!! SHE HAS SLEPT AROUND! SHE IS A SINNER! SHE IS SINNING! THERE ARE THREE BABY DADDIES THAT SHE HAS LAY DOWN WITH!! FORNICATOR!!
So what?
I have had your brand of “grace” before.
Bottom line. She needs help. She needs the grace of God. She needs Christ.(as we all do)
I do hope that a church will step in.
I am not angry Carla. At least I wasn’t. Now I am just hurt. You’re mean. And hypocritical.
“My brand of grace”? Whatever Carla. Calling sin, well sin, is what Christ did. One doesn’t need to be nasty when calling out sin. You would have probably have a problem with sermons that converted thousands like “Sinners in the hands of an angry God” right? Your brand of grace seems to be never calling a sinner’s sin to their attention. I am glad I grew up with the brand of grace I did. That my attention was called to my sin and I was given a chance to repent. You always seem to ignore that God is a judging God as well as merciful. My goodness, ever read the old testament? God caused the ground to open and swallow people alive for sin. But lets not call attention to that! The Bible says “Be not deceived, God is not mocked. Whatsoever a man soweth that shall he also reap.” This woman’s life is a glaring example of that. But lets not focus on that. Lets just pretend I’m being mean and judgmental. Whatever. Lets not call attention to the “obvious” either when confronted with rapists, murderers, thieves, child abusers etc… We’ll just use the brand of grace where we pat them on the back and tell them they’re victims.
It may be obvious to us that she “slept around” and made bad choices but isn’t the point of this video that to this woman it ISN’T obvious? To her its not obvious at all that she made bad choices and is the cause of her own misery.
Doug,
Agreed. Hell has frozen over.
You may surmise all you would like about my walk with Christ, Sydney and what I do or do not know about his mercy and grace and forgiveness.
I disagree with your “brand” of hypocrisy. If that is sincerely what you think shows others the love of Christ than that is a spiritual immaturity on your part.
Do you honestly believe that when I have a Rachel’s Vineyard retreat I will line all of the post abortive women up and make sure they KNOW what they have done? Make sure they are called out on their sin? Tell them they lived immoral lives?? No kidding. It is certainly why they are there isn’t it?
I will just keep interrupting them as they sob through their stories and say, “Hey you know you sinned, right?”
I am sorry that right now you don’t even understand what I am trying to convey to you. It is your REACTION to the lives of others that is so heartbreaking to read.
News flash. I sin everyday.
I sin every day too Carla. And I am thankful that when I persist in sin, older and wiser Christians call my attention to it. Call it spiritual immaturity. Whatever. You’re always right Carla. You are NEVER wrong. Ever. You’ve just lived so long you know it all.
I would just point out Carla that at your retreats those women are there because they have remorse for what they have done.
Why is it so hard for you to see the difference between a repentant sinner and an unrepentant sinner? With this woman in the video someone SHOULD call her out on her sin. She doesn’t see it. She doesn’t get it.
Peace out.
Whatever you say, Sydney.
I was wrong to continue this conversation with you.
So……what would happen if some loving, kind soul sat this woman down and told her, “Nobody owes you a living. Nobody owes you a thing. But we can see that you need help. And we want to help you help yourself and your children. You will be held accountable for your actions. We will help you so you can become a responsible, tax paying citizen who doesn’t live on hand outs and we can break the cycle of welfare dependence.”
Yes. I know you want to see others feel bad first.
Peace out.
Alexandra, thats what this whole clip is about. At least that is what I got out of it and the comments… that she wants government help and everyone “Oh this poor woman… she needs help.” I took that to mean welfare. Thats my only point. Not that a church shouldn’t help her but that she should not keep receiving tax payer money.
But you are responding specifically to the commenters here, calling people “bleeding hearts” and asking why more social services will help. No one here seems to have said that this woman just needs more social services. People have said she and her children need help, because that is a FACT. Her children will not survive, much less thrive, if she does not have help.
Who is your question about “more social services” addressed to, exactly?
I would just point out Carla that at your retreats those women are there because they have remorse for what they have done.
I know this is not addressed to me but I would just like to say that lots of times, people don’t end up in a place like a retreat due to having remorse. A lot of people are just there because…well, they don’t know why. But they need something – they need help – so they’re there. I was hit by a car a few years ago – nothing terrible, but it knocked me down and the wheels rolled right near my head at about 20 mph, gave me some bruises and a sore back but nothing else – and because I felt okay, I thought I was okay. But I wasn’t. I was traumatized. I hid in the boiler room at work that evening and cried, without even realizing I was crying; I started sleepwalking. On my day off, six days after the fact, I just wandered the city in silence, and eventually I found myself sitting on a bench overlooking a major traffic intersection. I hadn’t intended to go to that bench but once I was there it seemed like the only place I really ‘should’ be. So I sat. And I watched the traffic for HOURS without even realizing it. Cars merging, people crossing, all of it progressing without incident. When I finally ‘woke up’ I was surprised to feel a nearly-tangible sense of peace. I did not set out that day looking for subconscious healing, or whatever you want to call it, but I wandered into it anyway, sought it out; if you’d asked me why I was on that bench, at any point in that day, I would not have known what to tell you.
Obviously that’s different than women at a post-abortion retreat, or this woman in this video. Being hit by a car was something that happened to me rather than something I did. But my point is, not everyone goes looking for absolution or forgiveness or healing or anything else. Sometimes people can’t even see far enough to realize what they need, until after they already have it. Sometimes people are just standing up and saying, “I need help,” in whatever voice they know how to use.
The thing I really want to know is WHY this woman kept having more and more kids. Gee…could it “possibly be” that she knew full well that all she had to do is apply for public assistance and get it ? She didn’t “learn” after the FIRST three or four that she wasn’t financially able to care for them ???
Her getting a job won’t do zilch for 15 kids. She’d need to make 6 figures a year to pull that off…and clearly she doesn’t have the tools to do that.
The bottom line here is that 15 children are paying the price for this woman’s IRRESPONSIBILITY. Period.
Those kids have NO chance of a life under these insane circumstances unless the courts take over and put them in better situations…if that’s even possible.
I’ll bet any of you dollars to donuts that she’ll be pregnant again within a year. She’s already done it FIFTEEN times….so do the math.
In her case I’m all FOR her being forced to have her tubes tied. If after 15 pregnancies, living in these circumstances and feeling “owed”, to allow her to continue having MORE children she’s CLEARLY incapable of caring for is completely insane. She hasn’t learned a thing and never will.
She hasn’t learned a thing and never will.
None of us are past learning, Mike. That includes me and you.
One thing I wonder about, like Praxedes said up the thread, is why no-one ever condemns these so-called men, who got her pregnant multiple timea and abandoned her apparenttly? I think they are worse than she is, at least she bothered to stick around and try to raise them.
Condemning people never gets them to change their ways, it makes them defensive and less likely to listen.
Alexandra,
You are absolutely correct about an abortion recovery retreat. They know something isn’t right. They had an abortion. It was supposed to be easy. They were supposed to have moved on. It wasn’t. They haven’t. So they come looking and wondering and searching.
It is not Carla who convicts. It is the Holy Spirit.
Thanks Jack for noticing the MIA men as well.
Mr. Liberal, Ah, yes. That funny, funny man George Carlin. Where do you suppose he is now?
What are you doing to help this woman and her children, Mr. Liberal? Maybe you should get out of the boat, put your beer down, sober up and help teach the daddies.
I thought they were worth adding to the discussion…
Not really. (just my opinion though Duck).
Praxedes, I did say “I thought”. I didn’t say “Praxedes thought”.
Oops, I didn’t notice the swear word in my comment. Mod on duty, could you just delete that last response section with the swear word in it?
I deleted it.
Mainly because once again you would like to stir it up and bring in your “readers” inflammatory comments.
And the last line had swearing in it. I have deleted that George Carlin line twice already this morning. yay
I didn’t know you deleted George Carlin twice. I don’t see comments waiting for moderation besides my own.
This was not meant to be inflammatory response, as clearly the JS regular readers are not unified on this post either.
What does it add to a discussion to quote a bunch of folks from your facebook page?
Are they coming over here to engage in a respectful dialogue, Duck?
I’m sure some of them would, but they remember all too well the animated movies made by “pro-life” peeps on this page about pro-choice peeps from this summer. They also have seen ever since my interview with Jill, people from this page, come over to mine and say not so nice things to my other readers. Needless to say, some of them are a little jaded about commenting over here.
That being said, I thought their points represented a decent view of the moderate middle of this issue, and felt they were worth sharing for the discussion.
Mike: In her case I’m all FOR her being forced to have her tubes tied. If after 15 pregnancies, living in these circumstances and feeling “owed”, to allow her to continue having MORE children she’s CLEARLY incapable of caring for is completely insane. She hasn’t learned a thing and never will.
Mike, I agree – it’s just too much. Yeah, it’s treading on individual liberty, but it’s really an extreme situation.
I was reminded of a woman – not totally sure of the details and I couldn’t find it on Google – I think she was retarded/developmentally disabled and alcoholic, and she’d given birth to several kids with fetal alcohol syndrome. Not a prayer of taking care of them herself. What does society do?
How about you share your thoughts Duck and we shall leave it at that since this is a discussion forum?
She isn’t making babies by herself, guys. Should the men be sterilized too?
I think …
That it is extremely hypocritical for “pro-life” people to complain about this woman who has quite obviously chosen life.
I think the point raised by one of my readers, that she was engaged to the man who was the father of 10 of her 15 children, who was arrested and was the breadwinner, was clearly the spark that started the fire of their eviction. People who live one paycheck from financial disaster all the time, really do live one paycheck from financial disaster. This woman is clearly a case of that.
I do think that given the body of comments by some people here, as well as the author of this post’s tone, that George Carlin would be accurate in surmising that many (not all, I know Jack for one is not like this) “pro-life” people are actually “pro-fetus” and once born, they’re on their own.
I think that everyone who is a regular reader of this page, and who is “pro-life” should put their money where their mouth is and help families like this who are one paycheck away from financial disaster. Now, that in itself can bring up a debate. I know many of you will say that’s what the churches are for. I’d say well clearly that utopic idea hasn’t worked, and that’s why there is a government safety net.
Personally, I think this post is just atrocious. It definately doesn’t highlight in any way, what the “pro-life” cause should stand for.
Praxedes, I did say “I thought”. I didn’t say “Praxedes thought”.
Duck, and I said it was my opinion that they were not worth adding to the discussion. I see adding your readers as an attempt to stir things up instead of adding to a credible discussion.
as clearly the JS regular readers are not unified on this post either
We still all strongly opposed to and united in stopping the killing of the unborn as ever. I think your goal is to try to separate prolifers. Not going to happen.
My goal is not to divide anyone. My goal in that post, was to ask what happens after someone “chooses life” after the birth? Forget about it? Or make sure that child has a chance to actually live?
She isn’t making babies by herself, guys. Should the men be sterilized too?
Excellent point, Jack. It’s a matter of degree – if she only had 1 or 2 kids we wouldn’t be hearing about it in the first place. If it was just one man that was the father, that would make a difference to me. If there were 15 different fathers, would we sterilize all 15? I’m looking at it as the kids are “spread over” the different guys and in the end I say, no we don’t sterilize the men. But it’s a heck of a good question.
Praxedes, I’m sure George is in the Summerlands waiting to be reborn.
George is in the Summerlands waiting to be reborn.
And having lots of laughs. :)
“I’m sure George is in the Summerlands waiting to be reborn”
Prove it.
Has anyone checked out if the daddies have kids with other women? If we don’t sterilize these daddies, how do you propose we force them to become responsible parents?
Praxedes, where do you propose he is instead?
Praxedes, Prove he is not.
Oh and Praxedes, you would fit right in with Adolf. How “human” of you to say people should be sterilized.
Mr Liberal, I’m not sure Praxedes is actually supporting/proposing we sterilize the dads. I think he’s asking a follow up question brought up in the thread about the dads involvement. Someone else proposed what if we sterilized the dads? And then I think Praxedes is asking well what if they have children with other mothers?
Some of these comments make my heart hurt.
“For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.” Matthew 25:35-36
Of course we should help this women and her children. It is our Christian duty and responsibility. We may not be able to directly help her specifically, but there are so very many people that are in similar situations. Give food or money to your local food bank, so they can assist families like this. Give to charitable organizations that can help with housing, clothing, parenting skills, job training, etc. Adopt a family for Christmas through your local county or township office. Give to your church so they can stock their food and clothing closet. Give until it hurts and don’t count the cost. Every person you help (sinful, ungrateful, entitled, or not) is deserving of your help.
I can only imagine the helplessness this woman felt when her fiance was taken to jail and she wasn’t equipped to feed or care for all her children. The fact that she ungraciously reacted? So what. I’ve ranted and raved about far smaller crosses while under much less stressful circumstances. She and her family will be in my prayers.
Judgmental reporting would have us believe that this woman had all 15 children while on welfare. But nothing in the video says how long she was accepting welfare for.
Reading between the lines, it seems like her family was approaching stability when the fiancee was incarcerated, at which point they had to fall back on social services. And if that’s the case, it truly is a shame that the safety net was so moth-eaten that her family got evicted from their home. And that she lost custody of three children, breaking up a family that had, presumably, been intact for this long.
Most people on this thread actually a point. This system is broken. Welfare is a mere palliative without a functioning economy that can provide a living and at least the promise of upward mobility for young, undereducated minorities. Welfare is a bandaid when huge proportions of men in minority communities are incarcerated–often for dealing drugs to support themselves and their families (selling drugs to middle class white kids, ironically).
What if Jim Bob Duggar up and left his family, and his wife was left destitute? Would you say that she had been ‘immoral’?
Really poor children in really poor neighborhoods have no habits of working and have nobody around them who works. So they literally have no habit of showing up on Monday. They have no habit of staying all day. They have no habit of ‘I do this and you give me cash’ unless it’s illegal.
Lrning and Megan, too true, too true.
The next time someone tells me society has no business caring about what “consenting adults do in the bedroom”, I will send them a link to this article.
Here is a new pro-life video where dozens of students are converted to pro-life in seconds. A must see! Some say it is even better than 180movie. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOgeHtQqYTg&feature=email&email=comment
I’m not sure Praxedes is actually supporting/proposing we sterilize the dads
Your right, Duck. I was being facetious. I am opposed to sterilizing people unless there is a medical reason (I wasn’t years ago though).
The negative focus just seems to be overtly put on women in these types of situations up to the point of bringing up sterilizing them. If we talk about sterilizing mothers, it’s only right that we talk about sterilizing the fathers as well.
MP, people sell drugs and steal stuff because it’s profitable. Just like pooling subprime loans into mortgage-backed securities is profitable for banks, and denying sick people health care is profitable for insurance companies. White collar crime, blue collar crime: not much difference between the two, except that the latter lacks the veneer of respectability. I’d rather get a beer with a bottom-of-the-totem-poll dealer trying to support his kids than an ibanker ripping people off to buy a yacht. Just sayin’.
Wow, I truly hope this talk of sterilization is mere sarcasm. Otherwise, I’d say that pro-choicers’ nightmares about the right to physical sovereignty falling down a slippery, slippery slope aren’t so unfounded after all. How would forcibly cutting somebody’s tubes make them become more responsible citizens??
Well… Praxedes and I were being sarcastic, I don’t know about Doug. But he belongs to you guys Megan.. So…Choicers wannna sterilize people??
Choicers (most of us, as I can’t speak for everyone) don’t want to force anyone into sterilization. But if someone wants to themselves, that’s there choice.
Praxedes: I am opposed to sterilizing people unless there is a medical reason (I wasn’t years ago though).
Is there no point where you’d draw the line, though, Praxedes, Duck, etc. (or anybody else)? What if it was 30 kids, rather than 15? Let’s say that year after year it was another kid or kids (multiple births) and no hope that they would be supported by the parents.
We’re all “for welfare” or against it, to varying degrees. Well, changes are coming, whether we like it or not, and whether it’s by altering stated policy or not. As a country we’ve spent more than we’ve taken in, for a long time, and now we have so much debt that there are “hard” choices to be made and/or “hard” realities forced on us by the market.
There are people waiting to adopt babies. Eventually the line will draw itself, Doug. Until then, we need to help.
Megan and Jack, it may not be that the woman in question here is really what I’m talking about. If the family really was “approaching stability,” and the woman was making an effort, that is one thing.
There already have been cases where sterilization was ordered. For the sake of argument, if a woman – or a couple, to include the man – is really just “a baby factory” for the welfare rolls, what do you think should be done, if anything?
Praxedes: There are people waiting to adopt babies. Eventually the line will draw itself, Doug. Until then, we need to help.
Well, the “we need to help” sentiment has been around for many decades, if not forever, and here we are now – faced with doing less, rather than doing more. Hey, if each baby went quickly and smoothly into a good adoptive family, that would be a pretty darn “good” resolution, IMO. If anything, though, I think that’s now the exception, rather than the rule.
Doug, if a court of law orders a sterilization due to whatever legal reasons, ie the ones you mentioned about putting further children and her current children in danger because of neglect and sheer inability, then I’d support the decision because I do trust our legal system, so long as they don’t make such a decision lightly. I’d view it the same as court mandated medication of people. There are a lot of factors that go into such decisions and the court is not supposed to take it lightly. But, being the judge coupled with legal and social work teams, they’re clearly at a better position to make such judgements than I am.
Ugh, I really need to catch my spelling errors. *their not there
Duck, I was kidding. I am aware that most choicers don’t support forced sterilization, any more than most lifers.
Doug, I really, really have a problem with the government forcing medical procedures on people. It seems to be a dangerous precedent. I realize there may be some extreme cases where it may be the only way to benefit that person, their children, and society at large, but I worry about what it might lead to.
Jack, there is precedent, though it’s a relatively few instances. Indeed – “extreme cases” where it boils down to the judge/society feeling there is a good enough reason for it.
I hear you on worrying about “what it might lead to.” I’m also looking at our present economic situation and the decades ahead, seeing things get “uglier” for many people. I think people’s frustration will rise, and their tolerance level will fall. Interesting times….
“For the sake of argument, if a woman – or a couple, to include the man – is really just ‘a baby factory’ for the welfare rolls, what do you think should be done, if anything?”
Assign a social worker to the family and dock a portion of his/her pay from the couples’ salaries (or salary). Seize some of their more “superfluous” possessions. Make them attend mandatory financial education or job training classes. Efforts to “correct” the parents’ behavior shouldn’t end up grossly violating their basic human rights, or inadvertently punishing their children.
There are lots of people in this world who cause problems for society, but I don’t ever think the answer is strapping them down and castrating the part of them that leads to so much “trouble.” We don’t live in a world anymore where it’s acceptable to cut off a thief’s hands. Beyond being brutal, that kind of punishment is just lazy. Too cash-strapped to rehabilitate an offender? Off with his head!
And yes, there will always be those “hopeless cases.” They’ll just have to live with the dignity they lost while being a drain on the world around them.
Carla, you are the kind of Christian I hope to be. Thank you.
Doug, I usually agree with you, but I don’t like your mentality here. I’m a member of the generation that will inherit the country’s crushing debt. I’m paying for the baby boomers’ Social Security and Medicare right now–with the chance that I’ll receive a diluted version of this support when I hit old age.
But I don’t want to riot. I don’t want to rip somebody’s uterus from their body. I want a functioning democracy and sound policymaking, not vigilante justice. Justice that will, most likely, only punish the “lawbreakers” who appear on the country’s moral radar–like single black moms–instead of guys like Bernie Madoff, who screw thousands of people for years before anybody takes notice.
Btw, men who irresponsibly sleep around can impregnate many women in nine months, while a woman who sleeps around can only gestate one baby in that time. Men can hide the amount of children they have, also, which women can’t do. I propose we sterilize all men who have more than two out-of-wedlock children, because I assume they have several more than no one knows about. Vasectomies are safer than tubals anyway. ;)
Exactly, Megan! Everyone is so so so so so worried about welfare moms “taking their tax dollars” while they don’t even care when white collar criminals steal millions and billions of dollars, and don’t even pay the taxes they should. Silliness.
Thanks, Jack. Also, the real issue here is supposed to be that parents are having kids they can’t support. Legal action against parents should be aimed at helping the children, not incidentally disadvantaging them any more.
I think I would like to become a foster parent in the future. Be a temporary parent to kids whose parents need to get their crap together. No kid should ever be put out on the streets because his/her parents can’t come up with the rent. Ugh.
Megan: Assign a social worker to the family and dock a portion of his/her pay from the couples’ salaries (or salary). Seize some of their more “superfluous” possessions. Make them attend mandatory financial education or job training classes. Efforts to “correct” the parents’ behavior shouldn’t end up grossly violating their basic human rights, or inadvertently punishing their children.
That’s certainly not unreasonable, Megan, but who is going to pay for all the social workers? Many people just plain don’t have anything (so to speak) and don’t make anything, or don’t make enough that society could take part of it. Who’s going to pay for the “financial education or job training classes”? We’re faced with cutting back on things, not increasing them and/or instituting new programs.
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There are lots of people in this world who cause problems for society, but I don’t ever think the answer is strapping them down and castrating the part of them that leads to so much “trouble.” We don’t live in a world anymore where it’s acceptable to cut off a thief’s hands. Beyond being brutal, that kind of punishment is just lazy. Too cash-strapped to rehabilitate an offender? Off with his head!
And yes, there will always be those “hopeless cases.” They’ll just have to live with the dignity they lost while being a drain on the world around them.
I hear you. I think there will be less tolerance for people who are a drain on the system, going forward in time. I don’t think “lost dignity” is much of a deterrence, for many people, and that society will take a harder line with them than in the past.
I’d rather get a beer with a bottom-of-the-totem-poll dealer trying to support his kids than an ibanker ripping people off to buy a yacht. Just sayin’.
Sorry, I didn’t provide proper attribution for the comment I made previously. Those aren’t my words, they’re Newt Gingrich’s, made Thursday on a campaign stop in Iowa.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/03/opinion/blow-newts-war-on-poor-children.html?_r=1
Men can hide the amount of children they have, also, which women can’t do.
So right, Jack. After my divorce one of the first questions single men would ask was “Do you have any children?” I usually replied, “Three that I know of.” Many single men have the mindset that single women who have children come with “baggage.” You don’t hear the same said of men with children.
Megan, I just watched a 20/20 segment about foster children who are being over-medicated. It’s all about the $$. These foster children need love and hope, not more meds and chaos.
If you get a chance, you might like to watch it. This show made me realize I need to do much more than I have been to help others.
Doug, I usually agree with you, but I don’t like your mentality here. I’m a member of the generation that will inherit the country’s crushing debt. I’m paying for the baby boomers’ Social Security and Medicare right now–with the chance that I’ll receive a diluted version of this support when I hit old age.
Megan, I’m 52, and I’ve inherited it too, and am paying for it. My Social Security has been pushed back in time, and I don’t see any way around cutting SS and Medicare benefits. That said, I probably will “get something.” I hope any optimism you have isn’t crushed, in the long run. A tall order, there, IMO.
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But I don’t want to riot. I don’t want to rip somebody’s uterus from their body. I want a functioning democracy and sound policymaking, not vigilante justice. Justice that will, most likely, only punish the “lawbreakers” who appear on the country’s moral radar–like single black moms–instead of guys like Bernie Madoff, who screw thousands of people for years before anybody takes notice.
No “riots” from me, either, but I bet you’ll see increasing societal strife as things really come home to roost, so to speak. We’ve had it “better” than we should, for decades, and now we’re almost surely not only going to return to “the mean” or “the average” but substantially go below it. It’s not going to be fun.
There is a difference between proposed sterilization and Bernie Madoff. Bernie’s deal was in the past, and sterilization is looking ahead in time, trying to prevent worse problems.
Now, what would you do to Bernie Madoff? What, really, can we do that would really be “enough”? Kill him or put him in prison for the rest of his life – what would that do for all the people who he caused such pain and loss? You want to talk about “being brutal” – I’d be tempted to really try and make him pay. But it wouldn’t do much, really, would it?
As to your and Jack’s mention of white-collar criminals, I say give the maximum penalities. No “country-club” prisons; the real deal.
Or maybe sterilize them. ;)
Sydney, I am very impressed with your virtues, your chaste life. It is an excellent example of purity. You make an excellent witness to the faith. I think your prayers for this Mother will really help her – please, if it is not too much trouble, pray for this Mother to acquire your Wisdom, your virtues, your self-control, and your Faith.
I hope your virtuous life is a great witness for your own children and that they see your great virtue.
God bless.
She isn’t making babies by herself, guys. Should the men be sterilized too?
Jack was this comment sarcastic as well?
Yes, lol, it was sarcastic Tyler. I was poking fun at the people so ready to condemn this woman.
Jack…I gotta get better at dedicating the sarcasm!!!
Yeah, it’s hard to detect tone in text. :)
Generally, if I say something that makes me sound like a total jerk, I am being sarcastic. I’ll start adding wink smileys so people can tell. ;)
Pro-Life Catholic
Thank-you for such a thoughtful and considerate post.
Jack
I got this sarcasm by Carla (which I found, sadly, very funny and sobering):
Got anything of a young single mom with 4+ kids working 3 jobs, putting herself through college, getting food on the table and thanking God for everything she has?
Well Doug, the only way I could imagine mass-sterilization being cheaper than an expanded–though hopefully tightly regulated–job training program would be to perform them on unanesthetized patients with rusty spoons.
Discretionary, non-defense spending takes up a fraction of the federal budget. Defense and healthcare are the big money pits. Now, if we adopted a non-interventionist foreign policy stance; cut out third party payers in our healthcare financing scheme and regulated inflation; produced all our energy inputs domestically; and channeled all that extra money into schools and community gardens, everything would be great (and it would always be sunny with chirping birds…and we’d all wear Birkenstocks, too :))
Ha! That’s really good, Megan. Quite a substantial “if,” though.
Dear Abortion fans,
Are you suggesting forced sterilizations for men and women who have more allotted children than you yourself are comfortable with?
Cause “her body, her choice, his body, his choice” and all jazz………..
I wonder if this woman enjoys pregnancy. It strikes me that she may be another pregnancy addict.
About the fathers: there are some men’s groups who oppose forcing men to support children they’ve sired. I know some who consider you a “man-hater” if you believe in mandatory child support from fathers. One said, “Babies don’t pop out of penises.” Since men don’t carry and deliver, the child just isn’t his unless he wants to parent it. They point out that women can place babies for adoption or abandon them at Save Havens as well as, at least at the present time, abort the pregnancy. Therefore, men should be allowed to renounce anything to do with their biological children. The man is, in effect, placing it for adoption with the mother.
It bothers me that the description reads “3 baby daddies.” Can’t we say “three different fathers?” I feel like the only time people say “baby daddy” is when referring to a black woman or a black family. I am totally pro-life, and I’m also a Christian who does not support this woman’s lifestyle. However, I’m also a black woman and I am rather tired of the “baby daddy” meme. I have never in my life heard the term “baby daddy” when describing a single white mother. I only hear it when describing a black single mother. Sometimes the women use that term themselves, but in this case, the author of the post decided that it would be fitting to use that term. I don’t like far-left President Obama either but I was offended when Fox News used the term “baby mama” to describe First Lady Michelle Obama. I’m not accusing anyone of racism but it’s kind of offensive that people of a certain skin color can’t even be referred to by decent terminology.
You do realize that this video is almost 2 years old? This took place in spring of 2010. Why is this being brought up again?
Are you suggesting forced sterilizations for men and women who have more allotted children than you yourself are comfortable with?
Cause “her body, her choice, his body, his choice” and all jazz………..
Carla, it’s a question… Not more than what “I’m comfortable with” (which is zero, after all). But let’s take it to the logical extreme (or close) and picture severe fetal alcohol syndrome babies being born, year after year, to a woman or couple that has no hope of providing for them. So, pretty much, *poof* they’re wards of the state, and very, very hard to place for adoption.
Does society simply let it go on, year after year? Or does it have a good enough reason to do something about it. There have been cases where sterilization was ordered, already.