by Hans Johnson
From The Life Institute in Ireland:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVGvUF217us[/youtube]
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Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Well done. I hope that Ireland will remain the safest country in the world for moms and babies.
Even if abortion is never medically “necessary,” it is sometimes INEVITABLE. My friend Eleanor Cooney has emphatically stated that she “just wasn’t going to complete the pregnancy.” Her complete unwillingness to go through the pregnancy doomed the fetus within her. The law was powerless to get it born.
However, I believe that the abortion could have been prevented — by preventing the pregnancy. That pregnancy didn’t occur because she was raped, drunk, drugged, seduced by a sweet-talking Lothario, or any other dramatic scenario. She was 17 years old and alone with a slightly younger boy. The sex act was, in her own words, “foolish” and “stupid” and completely impulsive.
2 things could have prevented the pregnancy — and with it the abortion. One would have been preventing the boy and girl from being alone together. The other would have been her being on effective contraception such as Norplant or Depo-Provera.
I support both of the above but have a marked preference for the first since that would also have prevented STD transmission as well as abortion.
I have actually read people who believe in outlawing abortion refer to “the need for abortion.” For example, “If people were married, there would be no need for abortion.”
The correct term is “demand.” You could say, “If people were married, there would be no demand for abortion.”
Regardless of whether you are a criminalizer or a legalizer, you should use the term “demand” instead of “need.”
I should probably add that one of the most powerful books ever written on abortion is “In Necessity and Sorrow” by Magda Denes. It is a truly horrifying and depressing book but probably should be read by everyone with an interest in this issue.
Magda Denes favors abortion being legal. But she hates even though she sees it as inevitable. A reviewer said much of the book is “a meditation on the human condition.”
Nothing can prevent a woman from killing her unborn child if she is willing to die in the process, for the child depends on her life for sustenance. That is not an argument for legal abortion, though, but rather a limit of human justice: we can’t stop criminals who are willing to die, except by killing them.
myth buster says:
October 23, 2012 at 7:11 pm
Nothing can prevent a woman from killing her unborn child if she is willing to die in the process, for the child depends on her life for sustenance. That is not an argument for legal abortion, though, but rather a limit of human justice: we can’t stop criminals who are willing to die, except by killing them.
(Denise) If the pregnant female dies, she will — unless she is EXTREMELY close to giving birth — take the embryo or fetus with her. Her body is the life support system for the embryo or fetus.
After all pregnancies are planned, it is likely abortion will become a rarity. That is my belief at any rate. I do believe we will conquer the problem of unwanted pregnancies.
Denise,
you are such a stickler for words, when it suits your agenda. Try this: instead of ‘have/had an abortion’ which implies abortion is a gift, try: ‘commit an abortion’, it is much more in sync with abortion = a form of murder. Also the term ‘unwanted pregnancy’ is actually a detraction. Is the pregnancy unwanted or the child within, that is forced out of life,and family contacts? Always remember that a pregnant woman is a Mom, she is not a potential Mom..
John McDonnell:
Also the term ‘unwanted pregnancy’ is actually a detraction. Is the pregnancy unwanted or the child within, that is forced out of life,and family contacts?
(Denise) I’ve discussed this at length with Eleanor Cooney. She had no concern about stigma if she gave birth to a baby out of wedlock. Her “problem” was, in her words, “the PREGNANCY ITSELF.” She was completely unwilling to go through the PHYSICAL CHANGES inherent in pregnancy. That is why she aborted.
As I’ve said, the only way to have prevented that abortion was to have prevented that pregnancy.
Have or had an abortion doesn’t imply it is a gift of any sort. One can also have or had cancer!
I don’t use the respected word “mother” for aborters.
While many people have called abortion murder, the fact is that it has never been prosecuted as murder. After Roe v. Wade is overturned and some states enact anti-abortion laws, those laws will be specifically about “abortion” which they will not prosecute as murder.
FYI: Roe v. Wade was a poor decision. It should be overturned.
I despise abortion. But I don’t call it “murder” because it never has been, and never will be, prosecuted as murder.
But it is, by definition, a form of homicide.
Hi Denise,
Please notice, that I said a ‘form of murder’. Manslaughter is one such form. The law eventually will come into compliance with the view of science: a (young) human being dies [is killed] by an abortion which means – to stop a process. In human abortion that usually refers to very young humans. But older/grown adults are also aborted. Their life-process is stopped/terminated.
It is so strange for you to speak of pregnancy having much to do with a woman’s physiology and the growing child is somehow secondary to this activity – a consequence. Me thinks you have it turned around. ALL …. every one of those changes, even the whole pregnancy physiology is not about changes, but a series of reactions to bring about growth of a child.
I very deliberately chose the word “Mom” which you term ‘mother’. This marvelous word connotes an inherent protective element towards an offspring. A woman who has committed an abortion is the-mother-of-a-dead/killed baby.
Will a woman who is not pregnant seek abortion?
Isn’t the top priority ensuring that the women who get pregnant are those prepared to carry to term?
“Mom” or “Mother” are terms I reserve for those who have made specific sacrifices. Girls and women who abort have not made those sacrifices.
Adoptive mothers can lay legitimate claim to this term because they make their own types of sacrifices.
John McDonell:
I very deliberately chose the word “Mom” which you term ‘mother’. This marvelous word connotes an inherent protective element towards an offspring.
(Denise) Obviously, the term is inappropriate for a woman who aborts the pregnancy.
The term ‘mother’ is a biological(science) word, while ‘Mom” is a term of relationship. The term is used by an offspring who ‘knows’ his/her mother. Is abortion about mothers or Moms. Perhaps it will end when moms’ voices are heard?
John McDonell says:
October 24, 2012 at 1:55 pm
The term ‘mother’ is a biological(science) word, while ‘Mom” is a term of relationship. The term is used by an offspring who ‘knows’ his/her mother. Is abortion about mothers or Moms. Perhaps it will end when moms’ voices are heard?
(Denise) My take is that abortions are had by those who shirk becoming mothers.
When there are again laws against it — which I believe will happen — it will occupy its own special category as “abortion.”
Babies are mothered at the same time they are fathered.
Hans Johnson says:
October 24, 2012 at 2:54 pm
Babies are mothered at the same time they are fathered
(Denise) “Sired.”
It takes a real man to be a “Dad.”
“has fathered children” =/= “is a dad”
Human beings don’t “sire” children. Human beings are not domesticated animals.
At any rate, the subject appears to be: are abortions ever medically necessary to save the life of the pregnant girl or woman?
I’m not an expert but most of what I have read and heard suggests that this is quite rare. If the pregnant woman is late in the pregnancy, an emergency Caesarian section is performed. A friend of mine had a daughter whose (very much wanted) pregnancy ran into an emergency very late in it. An emergency C-section was performed. One twin was already dead and the other died shortly afterward. This wasn’t an abortion.
If a girl or woman is in the 3rd trimester and an emergency comes up — which is rare — a C-section will be performed.
Prior to that, I believe it remains possible but rare that an emergency could require aborting the pregnancy.
In a case like Eleanor Cooney’s, the abortion wasn’t the least bit medically necessary but it was inevitable because she wasn’t going to carry to term. She has told me that “never for one second” did she consider “completing the pregnancy.”
The only way to prevent that type of abortion is by preventing the pregnancy. While I promote contraception, it doesn’t protect against STDs or the special psychic harm that can be suffered by females through partnered sex. Thus, we need to do more to ensure that young men and women do not find themselves alone together. HAD she and the young fellow not been alone, they wouldn’t have had impulsive, foolish, irresponsible sex — and no abortion would have followed it.
She was 4 months along. While I am uncertain about the full humanity of a zygote, I have little doubt about that of a fetus at that stage. I believe a human life was ended.
At the moment of conception a mother, father and child are created. How well they do with those titles is entirely up to them.
Perhaps this clearer to those of us who believe in a Prime Mover.
Hans Johnson says:
October 24, 2012 at 4:04 pm
At the moment of conception a mother, father and child are created. How well they do with those titles is entirely up to them.
(Denise) My friend Eleanor Cooney was determined to abort from the moment she admitted to herself that she was pregnant. Thus, the fetus was doomed from conception.
The conception was due to impulsive sex between foolish teenagers.
How do we ensure teenagers of opposite genders are not alone together?
In case they are, should we ask each girl when she reaches puberty if she wants to be placed on effective contraception such as the higher dosage versions of The Pill, Norplant, or Depo-Provera? She would be informed of possible negative side effects. However, if she is afraid she might not carry the result of a rape to term or if she fears she might impulsively have partnered sex, it might well be a good decision for her to use contraception.
The ONLY way to prevent Eleanor Cooney’s first, illegal abortion was to have prevented the pregnancy.
x,
When I say “fathered” it’s only a technical, truthful term, like “fetus” for “baby”. It’s true a “real Dad” is expected to do a lot more. I’m just drawing a picture of a life’s start. It’s more than strands of dna bumping into each other.
Oh, I get ya, Hans. I’m just trying to explain it to Denise, who seems to take personal offense at human paternal references.
MURDER is inevitable, but that doesn’t mean you condone it, participate in it, make it available or easy, or excuse it.
Like murder, RAPE is inevitable, but that doesn’t mean you condone it, participate in it, make it available or easy, or excuse it.
CHILD MOLESTATION is inevitable, but that doesn’t mean you condone it, participate in it, make it avalable or easy, or excuse it.
Do I need to continue? The argument of inevitability cannot and should not hold any water. Just because the man or the woman down the street is intent on blowing up a building, it is not okay for me to blow up a building.
These are living souls, living people, created in the image of God.
http://180movie.com/
One way to make abortion unlikely is to ensure that only those women willing to have babies get pregnant. In my opinion, that is the very best way to work against abortion.
HOW do we do that?
I promote the use of contraception. However, it is even better to discourage premature and destructive sexual activity. Norplant and Depo-Provera are effective at preventing pregnancies. They are powerless against STDs.