by Hans Johnson
A sidewalk counselor tries to convince Landis to rescue his child.
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Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
It was a good effort but I think she was a bit too nice and fumbled over her props. As soon as she identified and related to him as a Christian she should’ve played that for all it was worth.
Saying abortion will cause breast cancer was unnecessary.
But excellent effort and I could feel her concern and empathy for Landis. Getting these guys to go back is difficult. It appeared Landis was worried he would appear as a bully and shatter his good guy image. That is my two cents/Monday morning quarterbacking.
Sidewalk counsellors earn my highest esteem. They put their personal safety on the line to try and save lives. They are like Firefighters, EMS, and other First Responders.
I feel for Landis. Our society has men convinced that they have no voice and no choice in the abortion decision. He probably thinks that even if he gives it his all, she is still in charge. He said that in the beginning…she’ll do it anyway, she’ll find a ride, etc. He feels powerless and has already given up and can you blame him? He’s right. He can’t do a thing about his girlfriend killing his baby. He can try but he it could very well be in vain. And then he would have completely invested himself emotionally only to endure the greatest rejection and disappointment ever. I don’t know if I agree with the choice of extreme language and guilt tactics the counselor used. I know she was pressing him to act but unless our society is going to give men more parental rights for babies in the womb, she is barking up the wrong tree.
Jana,
Each man can simply tell the mother that they want the child, think that she will be a good Mom and that they will support her in keeping the baby. Many new Moms simply want reassurance. After a man has stated this – then he has done a lot because he has provided her with options.
As for the “guilt tactics” – there is no guilt if the preborn child is not human. Guilty feelings only arise when a person knows what they are doing is wrong.
Also, I must have missed the hearing extreme language. What extreme language are you referring to?
The hard thing to juggle in these situations is the urgent, extreme and precarious situation of the baby and the compassion that the parents require.
I don’t know Tyler, if this guy is telling the 100% truth, then I don’t see what else he could have done. He claims he told her he wanted the baby and was willing to raise the baby with her. He claims she doesn’t want marriage and that she was determined to have the abortion. He has zero legal right to stop the abortion. Men do bear their part of responsibility for abortion, but sometimes the woman in the situation makes a unilateral decision and there isn’t anything a guy can legally do.
I wouldn’t have given her a ride though, that’s for sure. If that were my kid and there were no way I could talk her out of it (and I would try literally everything), I wouldn’t involve myself in that way. If she was determined to kill the baby then I wouldn’t help her do that.
Jack, I agree that, technically speaking, the legal environment makes women 100% responsible for all abortions – even those abortions that are made under duress and the threat of force.
Due to the fact that this man did drive her to the clinic I agree that he was sending mixed signals to her to a certain extent. He could’ve been encouraged to go into the clinic to clarify and remind her that he didn’t want her to have an abortion. Unfortunately, if this simple act of kindness is perceived as a difficult thing to do because the clinic environment is perceived to be so anti-life and anti-prolife speech.
Not to be trite, but if he is truly prolife I don’t see how he could reasonably expect his relationship to survive this kind of betrayal and unilateral decision making. At this point, he had nothing to lose, and his child’s life to gain by going into the clinic – as awkward and uncomfortable as that may have been.
Can women have gotten abortions under duress have legal recourse against the clinics and PP if they feel that the clinic never properly and appropriately scrutinized their decision making?
I really doubt he expects the relationship to survive much longer, I get the feeling he’s going to have some problems dealing with the decision she made.
Women aren’t children, is why I dislike this way of thinking. Yes, there are tons of women who are coerced or even forced. That’s not okay. But on the other hand, women are as capable of men of making bad decisions that hurt other people. I just don’t think that women are little kids that are helpless to make their own decisions, and the only reason they do bad things is because men make them or don’t properly support them. I don’t see any evidence this guy coerced his girlfriend or that she lacked his support (though we only get his side of the story).
Jack, do you think it is possible for a mature and reasonable woman to make a decision to abort?
I agree that some women, just like some men, are so stubborn that they don’t care what other people think and do whatever they want. But I wouldn’t call those individuals who only think about themselves ‘mature’. So I don’t know where you get the idea that I think the only reason that women get an abortion is because men don’t support them in choosing life. Perhaps, you can tell me what I wrote that gave you this impression so that I don’t make that impression in the future.
Do I think it’s possible for a mature and reasonable woman to make a decision to abort? I think it’s possible that women who are otherwise decent people to make a terrible decision like that, yes. Everyone makes mistakes, and abortion is pervasive in our society.
I got the impression that you’re putting the responsibility on him because you say that she just needed to hear this and that, yada yada, even though he claims that he already said such things. Like I said, if he’s telling the complete truth, then she’s making the decision to abort and there isn’t anything he can do. Sometimes women are blameless when they have an abortion (where force and coercion is involved). Sometimes men are blameless when a woman aborts their child. I do think that it’s wrong for him to give her a ride, so I don’t consider him “blameless”, but I see no evidence that he’s not been enough of a support for her to reconsider the abortion.
Though they both obviously had sex, they both bear responsibility for that.
“I think it’s possible that women who are otherwise decent people to make a terrible decision like that, yes. Everyone makes mistakes, and abortion is pervasive in our society.”
I agree. I said the same thing using different words and concepts.
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Generally, I agree with you are saying. I don’t blame Landis either – I don’t see assigning blame as part of my job or a counsellor’s job. And, as you mentioned, we don’t know the full story. My comments were about trying to encourage Landis to do as much as he can to save his child. I was and am not concerned with assigning blame.
I can remember sidewalk counselors telling stories about men who didn’t want their babies aborted pleading with their girlfriends outside of PP and the men crying ”it’s my baby too”. It is a story we may not hear often but it may happen more than we know.
I remember a long time ago Chris Rock’s profane monologue was linked on this blog about men not having anything to say about whether their girlfriend had an abortion, that all he could say was “what do you want to do about it?”. And he is damned if he says do (how dare you tell me what to do, I’ll have this baby if I want to) and damned if he said don’t (you can’t tell me whether to have a baby). The language was rough but it was the truth.