Pro-life vid of day: Hands off the baby bump!
From Townhall.com comes news that a new Pennsylvania law slaps unwanted “baby bump” touchers with harassment charges. The question is, according to Townhall, – “[S]eeing as touching a woman without her consent is illegal already, why is it that we need to make laws against this too?”
[JLS note, 10/29, 12p: The code in this video was throwing off the margins on our site, so I had to remove it. View it here.]
What do you think? Is the law necessary?
Email dailyvid@jillstanek.com with your video suggestions.
Oct.28, 2013 12:00 pm |
Video of the day |
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
I would be the first offender down there, haha. I have a tendency to like to touch “baby bumps” but I do ask for permission. So far I have not been deemed a criminal for that in Illinois.
I think I need to email AG of Pennsylvania if asking for pemission would save my hide if I ever decide to visit.
On a verys serious note. The lawmakers down there must not have a clue that it is wasteful to duplicate laws. If I were a taxpayer there I would definitely want my money back for redundancy…
Seriously?? This is the stupidest law. I was a retail manager when I was pregnant with my first and customers felt perfectly entitled to rub my belly all the time. It was extremely annoying but did I want them brought up on charges? In a way it is nice to know that pregnancy still thrills some people and that they find it beautiful and cute instead of viewing it as a disease or “fetuses” as disgusting parasites.
I can’t imagine asking a stranger if I could touch them, or touching them without permission. I am so creeped out when people touch me, I can’t imagine how pregnant women who dislike being touched feel.
Touching is so disgusting and unliberal but asking to touch is even worst. Let’s have a law against asking for permission while they are at it down there as well.
My wife and many close female family member
and friends have been asked in different public places when pregnant to have their “baby bump” touched, by women and men alike. All I have heard from my wife and the other women is that it was a compliment for them and they did not consider it creepy at all.
Liberals want a society in which any expression of humanity is deemed unlawful under any circumstance. What’s worst, many fall for these political gimmicks.
Thomas, it’s not illegal to ask someone if you can touch their baby bump (though I have no idea why anyone wants to touch a stranger). What is illegal (and already was, so I don’t really get the law), is touching people without their permission. I dislike being touched without my permission, I’m sure many pregnant women feel the same. I doubt many pregnant women will actually press charges, or that the charges would even stick, but I don’t see how anyone can complain that it’s not okay to touch people without asking them, especially strangers.
“In a way it is nice to know that pregnancy still thrills some people and that they find it beautiful and cute instead of viewing it as a disease or “fetuses” as disgusting parasites. ”
Yes Sidney M, that’s exactly it. If a pregnant woman does not want to be tocuhed she can just say NO but to make it a misdemeanor is just idiotic.
It’s ALREADY a misdemeanor to go up and grope people without asking. I think the law is unnecessary because it’s criminalizing what’s already a crime, but the principle is solid. Some people have a personal space bubble, don’t pop it unless it’s okay with them.
Refer to Sidney M and my response to that comment Jack.
And yes precisely it is un-necessary. A good feel illusion for liberals..
I don’t agree with Sydney’s comment (except her personal experience is her’s and if she never wanted to charge anyone for touching her without asking that’s her choice). If someone decides to start rubbing someone, pregnant or not, without asking that’s a crime. If they ask and are told no, but still touch the person, that’s a crime. I don’t see where we’re disagreeing, all the law says that rubbing people’s bellies without asking them or disregarding their permission is illegal. The only issue is that it was already illegal (and rude and invasive).
And again, my comments reflect that asking for permission is a must Jack. But, I predict that even asking will soon be out-lawed in Pennsylvania too…
We are not disagreeing on this Jack but I do have to side with Sidney M. Saying NO suffices but to create a criminal record for someone by pressing charges in this circumstance is idiotic.
You don’t think someone should press charges if someone touches them without permission (or against their express permission)? Well, I’m obviously not a pregnant woman, but if someone disregarded my no and rubbed any part of me (or didn’t even ask for permission), I might consider pressing charges. Depends on the circumstances I guess.
What other circumstances do you think charges shouldn’t be pressed if someone touches you without permission? I just don’t see why people think that pregnant ladies shouldn’t have the ability to protect themselves legally from unwanted contact, everyone else can. Being pregnant doesn’t give strangers more right to physically harass them. I know people liked to touch my ex (she was a really cute pregnant woman, everyone was always after the baby bump) without even asking her! The stupid part is my ex has, like, no personal space bubble and always said yes when people asked, but many didn’t even bother to ask.
Of course, asking for permission is not a crime and shouldn’t be, even if the person says no.
I don’t know Jack, maybe Sidney M is not a mainstream American like me and defines personal space (touching) differently? Or if she is mainstream, she considers it a compliment (see her comment above). Could that be it?
Did I ever say that I am against pregnant women having the ability to press charges if touched w/o permission? We agree that the law is reduntant and un-necessary. I further think it will be abused and create all sorts of issues at the court docket level…
Well, saying it’s “idiotic” to press charges against someone is what I have a problem with. It may not bother you or Sydney if some unwanted contact occurs, but people aren’t “idiotic” if they choose to press charges for unwanted physical contact. I know you agree that it should be illegal, but you both don’t seem to think it’s a big deal if someone touches you without your permission. It’s a really big deal for some people.
It reminds me of when parents shame their kids for not wanting to give an adult a hug or kiss, kinda. I tell my kids they don’t have to touch anyone that they don’t want to (though they are both pretty affectionate and don’t mind usually). But I see a lot of parents do that “come on, give aunt/uncle/grandma a hug right now! You’re being rude!” It’s the same thing with the touching of the belly bumps “why would you be offended by someone touching your belly bump, it’s not a big deal, don’t press charges, it’s idiotic!”. I think personal boundaries are really important and people need to respect them.
I think perhaps this law may have been created in part because there are many people out there who are clueless and don’t realize that touching a stranger on their pregnant belly is still touching a stranger.
Personally I would have far less problem with that than Everyone touching my babies! Here in Texas every Hispanic I pass has to touch my babies to avoid giving the “el ojo” or the evil eye. Drive me batty, especially the sweet old ladies who touch their checks! Yes, thank you for taunting my nursing baby and exposing her to who knows what pathogens. It was worse with my baby who was medically fragile. I would wear her in a wrap at my breast, but even that wouldn’t deter some. Arggg!!! Yes, I would rather her have evil eye than seizures from the cold you just gave her. Yes, thank you, raw egg under the crib, got it. Entiendo.
Jack, where does it end? Someone rubs up against you in a grocery store = charges brought against them? There is a certain immigrant population here in my area an it must be a cultural thing with them that they seriously don’t understand personal space. They’re always standing RIGHT on you in line. Should they be charged because of it?
Some people just automatically reach out to rub a pregnant belly. I found it to be old ladies mostly. Their intent isn’t malicious or sexual in nature. They just know there is a baby under that bump and maybe it reminds them of when they were younger and pregnant. I don’t know but I don’t think someone should be charged.
I found a way to cope with the unwanted touching. When people started to reach for my belly I reached for theirs and said “Me first!” That ALWAYS worked. Ha ha.
Never bothered me
There’s a huge difference between accidentally running into someone and deliberately touching them without their permission. Some dude gets bumped into you in the subway, accidentally touches your rear, that’s a mistake and 99.9% of people would apologize and that would be the end of it. Some dude deliberately grabs your butt on the subway, that’s harassment and I would hope someone would report it or even bring charges. And pregnant people have the same right to be free of unwanted deliberate contact of any nature, that doesn’t change just because it’s a belly being touched instead of another body part.
It doesn’t really matter the intent, when it comes to unwanted touching. I don’t think most people who do most unwanted touching think they are doing any harm, it depends on the person being touched whether it’s harmful or not, and their boundaries should be respected. I know people get all mad at me because I don’t want to hug them or whatever, but I think my boundaries should be respected even if other people don’t agree or don’t think it’s harmful. Same for everyone, everyone has the right to denote how much physical contact they are comfortable with.
And anyway, you have the right to be fine if a stranger grabs your baby bump, but other people don’t have to put up with it just because it doesn’t bother you to the point that you would want to press charges. I’m pretty sure most people would just firmly say no and that would be the end of it, but it still doesn’t change the fact that people’s boundaries and bodies should be respected, pregnant or not, and touching someone without their permission is (and already was) illegal.
A new law has not been passed. The video says that a man is being charged with harassment after a pregnant woman called the police following an encounter that included unwelcome belly-rubbing.
Ace reporting, Townhall et al.
Why not just wear a little sign on your belly saying “No, I just like chocolate”
Am I seriously the only person who is seriously freaked out by strangers touching me? I don’t get how anyone would not find that a big deal.
There are innumerable variables there Jack. Depends how they approach, how we take them, what we make of them, the circumstances, the surroundings etc.
I don’t usually have a problem if people speak before they touch, appropriate touching only of course.
Maybe people who have had bad experiences are more hesitant?
Idk I just know I think it’s creepy and gross and I really wish people were better at respecting space. I would rather everyone in the world just leave me alone, but at the very least I expect strangers to back off and not touch me. So glad I’m not a pregnant woman, I wouldn’t be able to be remotely gracious about the baby bump rubbing people.
You never know who will react very badly to touching so it’s best to leave strangers alone without specific verbal and nonverbal permission (for example, a non-confrontational person says “yes” to whatever touch but is obviously uncomfortable, be nice and don’t touch him/her). It’s really just polite, as well as keeping yourself out of legal trouble, to try and make sure your touch/affection isn’t harming someone else.
Am I seriously the only person who is seriously freaked out by strangers touching me? I don’t get how anyone would not find that a big deal.
No, you’re not the only person. Nor are you the only one who is not on board with the logic of “I’m pro-life, so it’s okay to grope some other woman’s body.” Although “I’m pro-life, so it’s okay to do [fill in the blank] to some other woman’s body” is sort of a guiding principle of the anti-abortion movement.
“Although “I’m pro-life, so it’s okay to do [fill in the blank] to some other woman’s body” is sort of a guiding principle of the anti-abortion movement.”
Just like “I can do what I want no matter who it hurts” is a guiding principle of the pro-choice movement?
Just because some of us believe fetuses deserve legal protection from being deliberately killed doesn’t mean we think pregnant women suddenly lose the right to keep random people from touching them.
Jack, I didn’t like the touching. Really didn’t like my pregnant belly rubbed. I like my personal space as well…I just don’t think we need another law on the books. There are always unintended consequences with dumb laws like this. Maybe my analogy was bad before since yeah, bumping into someone isn’t the same. But maybe for instance if you drop your wallet and someone grabs your arm to say “Hey! You dropped your wallet” could that get the person a charge?
Good manners means you don’t touch someone without their permission. I just don’t know if it is criminal.
Well apparently there isn’t a new law about specifically touching pregnant women, but there’s the old law about not touching people in general without their permission. And they are completely necessary. If you wanna talk about unintended consequences, what about if it WAS legal to touch people without their permission (which seems to be what you’re arguing for?)? Sexual harassment, for one, would not be prosecutable (and it’s difficult to prosecute in the first place). Most people, the vast, vast majority, won’t call the cops because someone rubbed their belly or touched their arm, and even if they did bring charges it would get thrown out for lack of evidence almost guaranteed.
So, anyway, no one is probably going to get prosecuted (even if charges are brought by some loon) for things that most reasonable people would agree aren’t malicious (even if they make people uncomfortable). But it’s definitely necessary to define unwanted touching as harassment or something like that legally, otherwise how could you prosecute sexual harassment and such?
Well I’m commenting without having watched the video obviously. It was presented in various articles as if this was a new law. Again, I don’t know if I want to see people prosecuted for touching someone without permission. If it is sexual in nature that is one thing…but innocent touching? Come on! It is rude but do we need it legislated? Do manners not exist without the law?
But who gets to decide that unwanted touching is “innocent”? The person doing the touching? If someone grips your shoulder to intimidate you, doesn’t hurt you physically but is obviously using the touch to make you nervous, is that innocent? It doesn’t have to be a sexual thing to make someone uncomfortable. Or, what if someone has a creepy fetishes for touching pregnant bellies, and hides the fact that it’s sexual for them. If they appear “innocent” does that make it okay?
You see what I’m saying? It’s not wrong because of the intent of the person doing it (you can’t actually know what their intent is anyway), it’s wrong because they did it without the consent of the person they are touching.
And a lot of people have zero manners. But anyway, like I said, considering that we can barely convict people for full on rape or domestic violence, even with physical evidence, I doubt there is suddenly going to be tons of people thrown in jail for rubbing a baby belly.
Having watched my cousin be groped by “innocent” “well-meaning” people EVERYWHERE she went for the past 7 months, even after retreating and giving clear body language signs for them to back off, I think this law is redundant, yes, but completely necessary. People obviously don’t think it’s a big deal, and it is. I’m with Jack, 100%. You’re intentionally touching a stranger (not bumping them accidentally), without her permission, just b/c you want to – to get something out of it for yourself (so not to alert THEM of a situation like dropping a wallet etc).
Seriously CT. I just think it’s the weirdest thing, I can’t imagine going up and asking a stranger if I could touch them in the first place, much less start rubbing some woman’s belly without her permission. Not that I’m saying it’s wrong to ask, that’s just something I don’t do, but it IS wrong to touch people without permission. Even if you don’t intend them any harm. Most people don’t intend to harm people, even those who do very harmful things like flat out abuse, so intent seriously doesn’t matter. Consent does.
If someone grips your shoulder to intimidate you, doesn’t hurt you physically but is obviously using the touch to make you nervous, is that innocent?
The boss I had at my first professional job used to do this. I hated it. I knew it was a power play so I did my best to ignore it. Seriously aggravating, so much so that I clearly remember it some 20+ years later.
I also had total strangers rub my belly with each of my pregnancies. I didn’t like that much either. I wouldn’t ever have prosecuted though, unless maybe they let their hands wander too high or too low. But I totally agree with Elizabeth, way worse than people touching my belly was all the people that touched my babies!!! Total strangers felt it was completely appropriate to reach out and stroke, tickle, pinch, and otherwise “affectionately” manhandle my children when they were in their stroller and I couldn’t put myself between them and these overly enthusiastic strangers fast enough. Yuck. Keep your germs to yourself! I hope I remember this in 30 years when I’m tempted to reach out and touch strange babies.
All that said, thanks be to God we live in a world where many people’s hearts are moved by the sight of a pregnant woman and babies. May God grant them many pregnancies and babies within their family & friends. (So they can lay off touching strangers.)
Sidney M is the voice of reason in this discussion, thanks Sidney for considering the idiocy of pressing charges everytime someone rubs against us. To piggy back off your comment: on the”L” (Windy City version of the train) my wife gets touched against and rubbed every single day. The other person says “sorry” and that suffices. For the scenario of a “baby bump” touch asking for permission should end the discussion. Period.
In America liberals tend to make everything into a controversy and diminish our humanity each time they enact logic-defying laws, duplicate them and cost the taxpayers money each time.
Soon enough we will have a robot-like nation where the Big Brother decides all for us, when some issues can be resolved w/o criminal justice intervention and handled w/o controversy. It is the people (read liberals) that make a mockery out of the criminal jusutice system.
Jack you seem to got hung up on the permission aspect of “baby bump” touch when all commenters very plainly agree with you that asking for permission is required. Are you misreading something?
Jack I got to be brutally honest. For sometime now I have been asking you not to misread comments. I just read your response to me in which you asserted that people who press charges regarding this issue aren’t “idiotic.” Who ever stated they are? I referred to the action itself as such, no more and no less…
Reality (notice no parenthesis here) – your October 28, 2013 at 9:41 pm response is spot on Sir. Go figure?
Am I seriously the only person who is seriously freaked out by strangers touching me? I don’t get how anyone would not find that a big deal.
I wouldn’t say I am “seriously freaked out” but I think its very rude. I would never touch anyone without their permission. The media glamorizes prostitution but I couldn’t imagine being a sex worker, because strangers are doing alot more than just touching you all the time.
I remember I was on a bus in Pittsburgh and I noticed this weirdo staring at me. I just thought he was a run of the mill creep and ignored him, then he grabbed my breast really hard and ran off. the bus. I was only eighteen and in a strange city and was so upset I started to cry. A few years later I was also (on the dreaded bus) and was fondled by a man who put his hands between my legs. These incidents happened many years ago, but I still remember them!
Meant to add — I read an article about little people and some of them said full-size people think its okay sometimes to pat them on the head and even pick them up! What the . . . I would take that opportunity to kick the ____ out of them!
Thomas accuses me of misreading while he claims that people want prosecutions for people accidentally bumping into you.
I don’t intentionally misread things.
Jack, my concern is that laws like this always lead to the death of commons sense. There are laws about bringing guns to school. Nobody would say that is a bad thing. We don’t want kids bringing in daddy’s pistol for show and tell. But then a kid doodles a gun on the back of his test and suddenly everyone is freaking out and the kid is getting expelled…or a kid bites into his pop-tart and it looks like a gun!!!!! Quick!!! Suspend that kid and call the police! We have a NO GUN law and that includes gun-shaped pastry!!!!!
There is just no common sense anymore. Well-meaning laws always cast a wide net. Not defending belly touching mind you. I’VE BEEN THERE! I have BEEN the pregnant woman with strangers rubbing my belly. It isn’t nice and yes it is weird but I’m not sure I want to see people arrested for it.
Maybe we need an ad campaign! Hire some celebrities to educate the dimwits among us that touching pregnant bellies (or beer bellies) isn’t a nice thing to do. ;-)
It won’t let me edit. *common sense* sorry for typos. Typing too fast. My brain is always jumbled full of thoughts and I don’t always take the time to sort them out. Sometimes the fingers get confused along the way.
Well then how about we just enforce current laws. It’s illegal to touch someone w/out her consent. The death of common sense is people groping strangers and assuming it’s ok. They do not ask permission, they just go for it.
“For the scenario of a “baby bump” touch asking for permission should end the discussion. Period.”
It should but it doesn’t b/c people are morons and people in the northeast are especially rude morons who will grope first and then act like there’s something wrong w/ you when you tell them to back the blank off. I wouldn’t prosecute every well meaning person (though I would certainly tell them all to get their hands off), but there are a few for whom it wouldn’t be undeserved. Also the fear of some repercussions might encourage people not to be complete jackwads and instead try out this “asking permission” thing that everyone seems to think is so common. For the record, I only saw my cousin asked permission ONCE in seven months.
Jack, where are you from (rough area, not detailed address, lol). I’m wondering if this is a regional thing b/c the reaction to this story around here in NJ was “about time”.
Lol, I’m in Florida. I’ve noticed (from my limited experience when my wife was pregnant), that the biggest offenders are New York retirees of either gender or Hispanic women (in the bigger areas). In the smaller more typically southern towns it seemed like it’s just a southern thing. “Oh doll let me feel your baby kick!” *hands immediately go to belly without asking*. And like I said, I just think it’s super weird that people don’t ask. My ex is not a “personal space” type of person, she was glad to show off the baby bump to those who asked, it just freaked her out when people did it without permission.
“Jack, my concern is that laws like this always lead to the death of commons sense. There are laws about bringing guns to school. Nobody would say that is a bad thing. We don’t want kids bringing in daddy’s pistol for show and tell. But then a kid doodles a gun on the back of his test and suddenly everyone is freaking out and the kid is getting expelled…or a kid bites into his pop-tart and it looks like a gun!!!!! Quick!!! Suspend that kid and call the police! We have a NO GUN law and that includes gun-shaped pastry!!!!!”
Well, that’s a problem with “no tolerance” policies rather than the principle that was put into play. The principle “students cannot bring weapons to class” is sound. It’s like the “beating people up at school is wrong” thing, obviously it’s a good idea to stop people from physically hurting each other, but then kids have gotten suspended for defending themselves. The interpretation of it by zealous administrators is wrong. That’s not the fault of the basic reasoning, it’s the fault of how it’s implemented. If we got rid of every law that could be abused we’d have to get rid of basically all of them. Sometimes people accuse each other of domestic violence or rape to “get back” at an ex for infidelity or leaving them or whatever, some people have had their lives utterly ruined because of it. That doesn’t mean laws against rape or domestic violence are wrong!
And like CT said, if people are aware there could be consequences to groping people without their permission, even if it’s a belly instead of a breast or something, they might think to ask permission first (which they should be doing anyway).
NJ has been totally infiltrated w/ NYers – so that fits.
They all come down here and they drive terribly! Lol.
“Thomas accuses me of misreading while he claims that people want prosecutions for people accidentally bumping into you.”
We both have “filters” Jack. Must be the male brain, LOL….
CT and Jack – after reading your assessments I’ve got to ask – how do people from the Midwest fare in this area from your perspective??? Are we gropers, “baby bump” rubberers, neither or a combo? Just curious…
Ah baby rubbers. IT doesn’t stop when they are born. Gross.
This law is dumb dumb dumb – I don’t want well-meaning people to be brought up on charges but I do wish people would be more concientious about the fact that, oh, I don’t know, I don’t want to be touched by a stranger and while I’m pregnant, that’s *me* you’re touching, not the baby and once the baby is born… Yo. Tiny immune system. Who knows where you’ve been??
People are stupid but baby rubbing is generally harmless.
And one time in a store, I was massively pregnant and waiting for my husband to try on clothes. Suddenly, out of nowhere, this employee yelled “baby alert!” and ran up to me and started rubbing the heck out of my giant belly. I had no time to flee. She smelled like smoke. It was gross. But oh well. I just smiled and answered her questions while inside I was screaming “stop touching me!!” Guess that’s the downside to being a Southern lady, I’m too darned polite sometimes.
I don’t think I know many Midwesterners really. I did know one guy who moved here from Michigan, but he punched me in the face once (unrelated to any baby bump rubbing or anything) so I didn’t get to know him too well lol.
I thought it was so cool that strangers wanted to touch my baby belly. I let them and LOVED when my babies kicked their hand. :) I think it is a perfectly prolife thing to do!!
So…….it will be illegal to touch the bump but perfectly legal to kill that which makes the bump.
Makes sense.
I like the way you think Carla!!!!
Jack,
You know puhlenty of Midwesterners!! They all comment here. :)
Lol Carla I meant in real life. I haven’t witnessed the Midwesterners activities around baby bumps.
I’ve been busy the last few days, but guess what folks, it won’t be illegal to touch baby bumps. It will {continue to} be illegal to touch baby bumps without permission. For everyone who loves it, you can still give your permission. For those of you who don’t, but don’t want to get police involved, you don’t get police involved. For those who really hate it, here’s your answer. The end.
Thomas, I don’t live in the midwest, so I have no idea how they react to it. I just know people around here either love it or hate it and the two are constantly coming into heated contact.
Yes exactly CT, if anyone is okay with baby bump touching, no one is stopping you from allowing it. And no one is forcing you to press charges if you don’t like it but do not wish to press charges. It is simply that some people wish to be able to press charges for harassment if people touch them against their consent.
I think people don’t realize that some people have serious problems with being touched, especially if they have PTSD from sexual abuse (something like 16 – 20% of people were victimized by that, and a good portion of those have PTSD or other problems with being touched). I don’t know why anyone would want to risk triggering a flash back or panic attack, it is very important to respect people’s boundaries because you never know if your “innocent” and “harmless” touching could be causing someone some major issues. This goes for any kind of touching.