Pro-life video of the day: “Fetal pain is a lie!” says MSNBC panel
by Hans Johnson
A typically unbalanced discussion on NOW with Alex Wagner seeks to assure viewers that babies feel no pain until well after 20 weeks’ gestation. So says panel “expert,” abortionist Anne Davis (pictured right), from Physicians for Reproductive Health, who conveniently happens to perform abortions late into pregnancy. According to host Alex Wagner:
We know that this isn’t really of course about fetal pain. It isn’t really even about, I mean, I would say, the protection of life. It’s about a concerted effort to roll back reproductive rights and make it harder and harder and harder for women to exercise control over their own bodies.
Not that it matters anyway, as another MSNBC host believes: “I don’t want to get bogged down [with the issue of fetal pain]. I think a great deal of people would agree that science and that public opinion is on your side,” Craig Melvin told pro-life Rep. Marsha Blackburn (R-TN).
One wonders by what mechanism babies move from the very start of their existence, if it isn’t by an intact nervous system? Perhaps it’s the same magical one that translates them to personhood at birth.
[youtube]http://youtu.be/vRYT0yWzG1g[/youtube]Email dailyvid@jillstanek.com with your video suggestions.
[HT: Kelli; photo via PRH.org]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
It’s disturbing how many people seem to think that the definition of a lie is a claim that contradicts their world view.
Pravda three decades ago had about the same level of credibility as MSNBC does today.
And they say we’re anti-science? Wow.
But I have to admit Anne Davis totally got me! I totally don’t care if babies are human beings and thus have an inherent right to life. I don’t care if they feel pain as their little necks are snapped and their arms and legs are torn off. I don’t care about those things. I really just stay up at night thinking “How can I make it hard for women to exercise control over their own bodies? I mean, I know I’ve made it a little hard but how can I make it HARDER AND HARDER??” It’s my sole focus in life. It really is. Women can’t control themselves. Birth control pills for everyone!!!!
Why didn’t they have a NICU nurse or a perinatologist there? Oh wait – they aren’t interested in hearing the inconvenient truth!
Of course, MSNBC’s ratings are so low that at this point I think the majority of their viewers are conservative bloggers waiting for them to say something stupid in order to blog about it.
The central nervous system is hooked up by the 19th week of pregnancy. That must be when pain is felt.
Thus, an abortion performed at the 19th week of pregnancy or later is experienced as being tortured by the unborn.
Saying pain is only felt at the 19th week is an extremely conservative estimate that led to the 20-week line. (Tough luck to those between 19 and 20.)
It’s still a moot point. Is it all right to kill the comatose, the drugged, those in a deep sleep, for that matter?
To make an uncomfortable comparison (but what isn’t on this topic?) I was always told that a fish didn’t feel the hook in its mouth. I never quite bought that either.
Vita, I totally agree. Where are the NICU nurses and the perinatologists that take care of these babies every day? Ask them if these babes feel pain as they poke and prod them and watch their vitals signs as go into stress so they work hard at decreasing their pain and stress levels as much as they can. Some of these precious babes don’t make it but they do everything they can to save their lives not to destroy them like this butcher.
So according to Wagner, this is about rolling back of reproductive rights.
Reproductive health is defined as: Preventive measures to avoid sexually transmitted diseases and “unwanted pregnancies” (parenthesis mine). WHO defines reproductive health as “a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being, and not merely the absence of reproductive disease or infirmity. Reproductive health deals with the reproductive processes, functions and system at all stages of life.”
Wagner and Davis fail to realize that the term PREVENTIVE applies to before the pregnancy not post conception. Both also fail to realize that a pregnancy is not a reproductive disease or infirmity. World Health Organization as well as Physicians for Reproductive Health are not credible in regard to supporting abortions precisely because their own reasoning does not consider pregnancy an inherent health risk. Their stance is borne of pure caprice driven by the motive of population control.
Hans Johnson says:
September 10, 2013 at 1:55 pm
Saying pain is only felt at the 19th week is an extremely conservative estimate that led to the 20-week line. (Tough luck to those between 19 and 20.) It’s still a moot point. Is it all right to kill the comatose, the drugged, those in a deep sleep, for that matter?
(Denise) Fetal pain is not a “moot point.” It is a vitally important point. Non-human animals are euthanized in ways that try to ensure no pain. When murderers are executed in the United States, the manner of execution is supposed to be one that makes a minimal amount of pain.
No matter how strongly you and others feel that all pregnancies should be carried to term, abortion is a fact of life in the United States. Surely we should make every attempt to ensure that the unborn are not tortured.
It makes sense to assert that pain can be experienced once the central nervous system is hooked up at week 19 of pregnancy. That means the unborn suffer as they are torn limb from limb or burned and poisoned with saline solution.
“hooked up” at 19 weeks or becomes fully developed at 19 weeks?
What is happening at 18 weeks and 6 days?
Fetal pain has never been part of my argument against abortion, I think it’s quite a weak one, actually. If you gently drug your newborn and smother her that is just as tragic as if you beat your awake two-year-old to death. I mean, you might feel more visceral horror at the toddler’s death because of the suffering, but the fact is that neither death is acceptable or “worse” than the other.
I feel like the fetal pain arguments detract from the real issue, that all humans deserve life, regardless of their physical or mental capacity to experience things.
And Hans I lol’d at your comment. Yes, I never bought fish don’t feel pain when they have a barb hook through their mouth and throat, and I don’t buy that when pigs scream when they are slaughtered that it’s not *really* that they are in pain.
“Fetal pain is not a “moot point.” It is a vitally important point. Non-human animals are euthanized in ways that try to ensure no pain.”
See, this is why I think fetal pain is not the right argument to be making, honestly. It just turns into people talking about how we can more humanely kill our young. It’s a deflection, it’s not what I want to discuss. I don’t want to get drawn into arguments about how we can make killing kids less traumatic, I want to discuss why we shouldn’t be killing children.
And Denise I don’t think we should execute prisoners with minimal pain, I believe we shouldn’t execute prisoners at all. I think capital punishment is immoral and wrong.
I couldn’t watch the whole 8+ minutes. I only got through 5 minutes before I had to turn it off. It just made me gag.
Even if we were to take the whole fetal pain issue off the table, we’re still dealing with another, individual LIFE. I’m a woman and I do NOT feel that these situations are so “impossible”. Nothing is impossible with God. (And if you don’t believe in God, what about the phrase “You can accomplish anything you set your mind to”?)
And how are THEY trusting women? Saying women are “in these impossible situations” makes them sound like a woman could never find resources or help. Makes them sound like women are pathetic beings that can’t rise to the occasion. As a woman, that’s INSULTING.
Their form of “compassion” is condescending, insulting, belittling, and ridiculing of women and the fact that it’s women saying these things just makes it worse.
Nobody knows what they’re capable of doing until presented with the situation. Nobody knows what kind of help is available until they LOOK for it. (Even if you’re not Christian the phrase “seek and ye shall find” must mean something). There are people, organizations, and all kinds of resources available today. To say they’re not is to make us a laughing stock of a species.
There’s a YouTube video out there of a Mama Cat who adopted a SQUIRREL! If Nature can adapt and adopt and help each other, why can’t we human beings rise to the occasion, too?
Oh here’s the link to the YouTube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOTohTvW3SI
And here’s another video story about it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyGm8g0OR-g
Denise,
Surely we should make every attempt to ensure that the unborn are not tortured.
They won’t be tortured if we cqn stop people from trying to kill them.
“I couldn’t watch the whole 8+ minutes. I only got through 5 minutes before I had to turn it off.”
Well you beat me. I couldn’t bring myself to even start the video. It sounded awful enough from the text description.
The lady is right, she knows her stuff.
The science demonstrates that fetal pain begins at around 24 weeks at the very earliest. The relevent expert groups in the field agree that an assessment of all the studies show this.
And we all know that the only true intent of laws claimed to be based on factors such as fetal pain and greater medical safety for women is to restrict or deny access to abortion services.
“And we all know that the only true intent of laws claimed to be based on factors such as fetal pain and greater medical safety for women is to restrict or deny access to abortion services. ”
Well of course, I don’t know why people would deny this. Of course we care about women being medically safe, and we care about fetuses not dying a painful death, but the game plan is always to reduce abortion to as small amount as possible and criminalize it. It’s intellectually dishonest to deny this, because that IS the goal of the pro-life ANTI-abortion movement.
Yes, it’s definitely not about “the protection of life.”
I think I’ve heard it all now – ALL the (strawman) arguments against pro-lifers: You don’t care about born people, you don’t care about women … You don’t even care about the blobs of cells, quite frankly! Indeed! Thanks for the laugh as usual, MSNBC!
I wonder how pro-abortion women feel being shown-up by a cat!
Cats must be special – the prolife species:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfEw44cVJvY
The pro-choice movement doesn’t care about women’s rights – it only cares about population control and eugenics. Pro-choice people only care about being able to remove those individuals from the population that they deem undesirable. They are like a Javert mercilessly prosecuting the unfortunate Fantine’s of this world in order to prevent Cosette from ever entering the world.
That’s what people get for watching political entertainment channels like MSNBC or Fox.
Find real news channels – get real news channels.
Jack,
Fetal pain is real. This is a counter argument against the “blob of cells” flat out lie.
This is not what our movement hinges upon but as an incrementalist I applaud all prolife legislation that serves to LIMIT abortion. We are passing a record number of bills and 40 abortion mills have closed. They are losing and they know it.
ALL life will one day be protected.
And why do you bother with Reality??? :)
Keep fighting the good fight my friend.
And I agree with interviewing those that work with preemies when every care is taken to ensure that they do not feel pain. Including the fact that parents are not even allowed to hold them.
Some here ( I mean “reality” and DeniseNoe) do not realize that this is not about fetal pain. Hans is 100 percent correct in refering to this discussion as a moot point to a certain degree!!!
“reality” needs to re-read my comment related to WHO and PRH not considering pregnancy as an inherent health risk, thus no need to intervene, right?
Again kudos to you Hans for nailing it.
Well, how can I not “like” that comment? My point was of course not that fetal pain is inconsequential. It’s one of the many reasons this practice is barbaric. But like the rape and incest “exceptions” its a side issue to the wrongness of all abortion.
Carla is certainly right that anything that helps whittle down the numbers is for the good.
Tyler says:
September 10, 2013 at 10:36 pm
I wonder how pro-abortion women feel being shown-up by a cat!
(Denise) Huh, the cat did not have the baby for the squirrel. The squirrel baby was out of the mother’s body when the cat took the squirrel in, feeding and caring for the squirrel. There was no way the cat could have completed the pregnancy on behalf of a squirrel.
Don’t let this get to your head Hans, LOL.. I appreciated this convergence greatly though.
Nice little conspiracy 101 rant Tyler. You do realise that abortion is an individual decision don’t you?
“Fetal pain is real.” – it is considered possible after about 24 weeks.
“This is a counter argument against the “blob of cells” flat out lie.” – my observation is that the term ‘blob of cells’ is usually only applied early in pregnancies. Whether you use the term ‘blob of cells’ or ‘gestating human’, the fetal pain concept isn’t a counter argument.
“reality” needs to re-read my comment related to WHO and PRH not considering pregnancy as an inherent health risk, thus no need to intervene, right?” – is there meant to be a point in there somewhere?
What I am seeing is an admission that so called ‘fetal pain’ bills are inherently dishonest.
Anne Davis, Alex Wagner - they would make good Halloween costumes.
I guess I shouldn’t forget Ilyse Hogue and Katie McDonough. They are also quite scary individuals.
The point is mr resident-philosopher tmeister/”reality” that WHO and PRH are disregarding their own established understanding of pregnancy by supporting abortion. Both are hypocritical in that regard because both are organizations that supposedly strive to combat illness and infirmity within the women’s health realm . If pregnancy is not considered by these two organizations as an inherent health risk (it is neither an illness nor infirmity per WHO/PRH) than abortion is unnecessary. Is this simple premise mr resident-philosopher, lost on you?
REALITY check: “you do realize abortion is an individual decision” This is a totally ignorant comment. 1. There is another human life at stake which ends up killed by this ” individual decision”. 2. Another (sub)human life carries out the legal killing and can do so in many states through the entire 9 months to fulfill this “individual decision”.
3. Liberal Politicians have been coerced by special interest groups with financial gain to treat abortion as a sacred cow with NO restrictions, NO oversight, NO reporting, NO parental rights and oh by the way taxpayers and fellow university students, including those who oppose this killing on all levels, are forced to finance this “individual’s decision”!
This panel was laughable and to freak out about small, logical, scientifically ethical restrictions with medical protocol outside the abortion world shows their real fear. They are not concerned about women’s access to abortion, they are concerned that it will tamper with their access to the financial gain abortion provides them.
Have they considered what stake pro-life people have in this? We have nothing to gain and in fact make extraordinary sacrifices of time, energy, emotion, and money to defend and protect human life. The right to life is a constitutional right and trumps anyone’s “right to choose” about anything, especially whether or not another human being lives or dies a painful death.