Site update
We (by that I mean my web guru, Peter) have been making improvements to the blog the last few weeks, most undetectable. We experimented with one poll type last week, and today we’re trying another, which you’ll see on the right, under the “quote of the day” box.
Also, they’re official! Bethany and Mary Kay (MK) have agreed to serve as my blog moderators. You’ll also see them listed on the right under the poll box. If you spot an out-of-line comment or have questions, please email Bethany or MK by clicking on their names. I very much appreciate their help with this growing blog.
Jun.07, 2007 12:12 pm |
Site updates |
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Bethany is a good choice. MK… not so good… seems to like to threaten people with banning and such when unable to advance her notions or legitimately counter those of others.
You know, to make your blog a bit more balanced, you could have a pro-choice mod as well. That would ensure that your current mods don’t go deleting things just because they disagree.
I **definitely** agree with Less on that. Make a pro-choicer an Admin, to keep the others in check (aka Jasper).
Congrats to Bethany and MK though..
You know Cameron,
That was unfair. First because the only time I threatened to ban you was when you were making sexual comments about my 10 year old daughter.
Second, because when we took a vote to let you back on, I voted yes.
Third, because I have always responded favorably to you when you have post “honest” dialogue.
As to the pro-choice moderator, wouldn’t be a pro-life blog then would it?
And I can assure you that I will always err on the side of letting someone stay over banning them.
I promise I’m not on a power trip. Neither is Bethany. Jill just can’t be here all the time and sometimes she’ll need a hand. Know that I have her phone no. and would not hesitate to call her if I was on the fence about something.
Besides, even if you were to get banned, you would most likely be let back on when Jill got back. If we let Dr. Defense stay on, I can’t imagine who we would ban…
Tell me honestly now, would you really have wanted us to ban Jasper and keep you from having the fun of ripping him to shreds?
Midnite,
Thank you.
mk
Less,
That would ensure that your current mods don’t go deleting things just because they disagree.
I’m saddened that you think so little of us. Wouldn’t be much point to this whole website if it was all about us giving our opinions and deleting dissenters. There are plenty of websites like that out there, and I’m not on them.
The reason I love this site so much, is that we afforded the freedom to say what we want, get into heated arguments and still come out on the other side as friends.
I’d be bored to tears if all I did was talk to Bethany, Valerie, Jill and all the other pro-lifers here. (Not that you guys are boring, but honestly, how much fun would it be to preach to the choir 24/7?)
Cameron and Less,
I am truly sorry that this is how you view us.
But it’s not the first time we’ve disagreed, and it won’t be the last…I hope!
Congrats to MK and Bethany. :D
@MK: Have you been able to obtain some Lemming and fluoridated olive pizza yet? I snagged some last night, it was exquisite. :)
Thanks Rae,
I had some this morning and I got a piece of lemming stuck in my teeth. It’s been driving me nuts all day. Perhaps the fluoridated olives will keep it from becoming a full blown infection. Dang lemmings!
Where do you order yours from? I got mine from some chain, Papa Lemmings, and I think they used canned lemmings…yech!
Hey Rae,
You’re an artiste of the “out there” kind…make us an advertisement for Lemming pizzas…
Less, 1:22p, said: “You know, to make your blog a bit more balanced, you could have a pro-choice mod as well. That would ensure that your current mods don’t go deleting things just because they disagree.”
Less, you inaccurately charge I/we delete comments with which I/we disagree. It simply doesn’t happen. I only delete comments with swear words or threats in them, or when site fist-a-cuffs loom, as in the infamous Cameron/HisMan lollapalooza.
After all this time you still don’t get that we not only don’t mind the debate but welcome it.
This is contrary to what most of us have encountered at pro-abortion sites.
But there’s no fear here. You give your thoughts too much credit.
@MK: I was going to do that! Perhaps I shall do so this evening after the people leave (we’re showing our house tonight…perhaps we can finally sell it!). Lemming: The other white meat! :D
But apparently debate that “blasphemes God” is too much eh? What about when I asked if you were racist, or the hoopla about the domestic violence column? If I remember correctly, several comments were deleted, despite the fact that there was no cursing in them. Granted, those were all a while ago, so perhaps there’s been a policy update.
And apparently condemning people’s relationships, calling them selfish and disgusting, and informing them of their impending damnation doesn’t warrant a delete. Again, this hasn’t happened so much in the last month (funnily enough, it coincides with the lessening of HisMan’s postings), so it could be that there’s been a change of policy. If there has, then nevermind.
Regarding you guys going to pro-choice sites, the majority of those who have refuse to post what they’ve said. I’ve gotten the impression that they were attempting to evangelize, which would of course receive a less than stellar reaction.
Honestly, I have noticed that things have been quite a bit more balanced on the site lately, and I agree that this is a positive thing. It hasn’t always been this way, however, and I think slipping back into the discord of before would be quite detremental. I have no particular long-term interest in the blog, as I realize that posting here is a pointless exercise in indulging my confrontational side, but ensuring that it retains the consideration that seems to have developed lately would be good for you.
“Less, you inaccurately charge I/we delete comments with which I/we disagree.”
Jill,
You have deleted many of my comments that had no four letter words, and which only clearly articulated your own flaws, lies, etc….. Generally the more embarrassing my comments are for you, the more likely you are to delete them. Granted, you’re not nearly as bad about it as you were awhile ago when we first started posting here.
Cameron,
were you ever spanked as a child?
Less,
When I put a comment on a pro-choice blog, not realizing it was such, I was attacked as an “Evangelical wacko, Fundywacky, s-head,.
The antics were absolutely infantile. Every comment was deleted. I was not preaching, I never brought religion into the discussion, they just assumed I “had” to be an Evangelical or Fundamentalist, I am in fact neither. I said all I’d like is an intelligent argument for what you believe in. I never got one. Just profanity and name calling. I’m sure these are people who are the first to condemn the “intolerance” of others and consider themselves bastions of tolerance. Why would they be so afraid of an opposing viewpoint?
I am not saying this is typical of all pro-choice people or blogs. I am just saying that you don’t have to be preaching religion to be attacked in this manner.
Mary, do you happen to have a copy of what you posted, then?
I have never met someone who was pro-life and not part of an organized religion. I’m not saying they don’t exist, I’m sure they do, but I do not know anyone who holds the pro-life view and isn’t very religious–and I do know quite a few pro-lifers. It’s not a difficult assumption to make, and while assuming such a thing isn’t fair, I can understand why they did it.
Less,
If you google “pro-life atheists” you will find some websites for pro-life agnostics and atheists.
No I do not have a copy of what I posted but take my word for it, there was nothing of a religious nature in it. Whatever I wrote was deleted and I had no way of keeping a copy. I personally prefer not to get into religious discussions, debates, or preaching. You can tell that from my postings on this blog. If others choose to do so that is their decision and I respect it. In fact, I have encountered pro-life people of all faiths and no faith, agnostic, and atheist. I can say the same for pro-choice people.
Yes they made an assumption but that hardly justifies their name calling and personal attacks. Why not just give me an intelligent argument and leave religion out of it, as I did? What would your reaction if I were to attack a poster on this blog who I can only assume is black or Jewish with slurs, swearing, and name calling? I’m sure you and the others on this blog would condemn this and well you should. I hope you would just as strongly condemn the same intolerance from a pro-choice site.
Cameron, 3:17p, I dispute your conjecture as flat out false that I have deleted “many” of your comments. Email them to me.
Sure, there are a few pro-life atheist leagues, but the majority of pro-life groups are affiliated with a religious institution. I hardly think you’d disagree with the statement that the majority of pro-lifers are religious.
Sure, it would be nice if no one assumed anything and they had given you an intelligent argument. It’d be nice if jasper would be nice and present and intelligent argument. Frankly, it think it’d be nice if everyone would keep religion out of the debate. I think that, on both sides, there’s a lot of bitterness: both sides have been viciously attacked for their beliefs, from being called pro-death and anti-choice to being harassed outside of Planned Parenthood and called whores.
Intolerance in any form is unconscionable: whether that be Christians slurring other religious beliefs or racism. It isn’t acceptable for either side.
Less,
But apparently debate that “blasphemes God” is too much eh?
It’s hard to take the argument that there is no Christian Bashing on this site seriously, when you just said you were deleted for blaspheming God.
I was not a moderator then, but blaspheming God falls under the term cursing. Actually, I believe that is the origin of the term.
have no particular long-term interest in the blog, as I realize that posting here is a pointless exercise in indulging my confrontational side,
Well now see, admitting that you only come here to selfishly satisfy your personal need to confront (attack) and then complain because you aren’t treated fairly (which I wholeheartedly disagree with) doesn’t bode well for your side of the argument.
Less,
I’m glad we agree that it is not acceptable for either side.
MK, I like to argue. I’m not denying that. I come here because everyone I know is pro-choice, and I wanted to see what the pro-life side was like. I quickly realized that most of you are extreme in your views and don’t represent the majority of the pro-life movement. Posting here, I quickly came to realize, is pointless: I’m not changing anyone’s mind, you’re certainly not changing mine, and while it’s interesting to debate, nothing is really being accomplished.
I wasn’t deleted for blaspheming God: I’m careful not to, not because I’m particularly concerned with how the pro-lifers on this side will take it, but because of much more personal reasons. Others have been. To you blaspheming God falls under cursing: as quite a few on this site are not Christian, I’d imagine they’d disagree with you.
You know,
If we went back and lined up nasty comments and name calling from both sides, I can tell you that you’d be shocked at how lopsided the score card was.
Personally, I feel that HisMan attacks behavior, not people. And Jasper does the same. But the counterattacks against both of them are so out of proportion to the attacks they’re accused of that it’s ridiculous.
I remember the “GET HISMAN” post and you guys were merciless. I cannot think of a single time that ALL of the prolifers on here ganged up on one of you.
But when it comes to HisMan and Jasper you guys are relentless. But you have been allowed to say what you needed to, no matter how hurtful and hateful, for the sake of a free discussion.
Anybody up for the challenge? It would probably take a week to collect them all, but I promise if you could hear yourselves the way we hear you, and realize how much “bait” we don’t take, you’d be amazed.
That said, these conversations are like any other relationship. We met, we felt each other out, we learned our weak points and our strong points and kudos to both sides, we have stuck it out and formed some fairly strong bonds. At least I thought so.
I have said before, and I say again, it takes great courage to enter and remain in the enemy camp in the name of “fair debate” and I congratulate you all. I hope that the “first date” phase of this “relationship” is over and we can move on to the business of building stronger bonds and deeper dialog. I will and have stuck up for people on both sides when I have felt that they were treated wrongly and I will continue to do so.
What say you all?
Anybody up for the challenge? It would probably take a week to collect them all, but I promise if you could hear yourselves the way we hear you, and realize how much “bait” we don’t take, you’d be amazed
I would be more than willing to help. ;-)
Sounds fair to me.
I would be more than willing to go through all the posts and collect for the other side: I already have two pages of various insults, and would be more than willing to post them. I think it would be more productive, however, to not, but that’s just me.
That said, these conversations are like any other relationship. We met, we felt each other out, we learned our weak points and our strong points and kudos to both sides, we have stuck it out and formed some fairly strong bonds. At least I thought so.
It’s kind of amazing how some of the relationships begin here (kind of a rough start most of the time), and after a few weeks, we seem to get along fairly well, especially for a debate such as pro-life/pro-choice.
Less,
You’ve been here for four months. I can’t think of a single thing that I have ever voluntarily done for four months that I felt I was getting nothing out of.
Obviously you get more from this site than you claim.
I quickly realized that most of you are extreme in your views and don’t represent the majority of the pro-life movement.
I have never met someone who was pro-life and not part of an organized religion. I’m not saying they don’t exist, I’m sure they do, but I do not know anyone who holds the pro-life view and isn’t very religious–and I do know quite a few pro-lifers.
Which is it? We are extreme in our religious and pro life views OR all the pro lifers you know are very religious?
Rae,
you can help if you want, but aren’t you supposed to be doing some advertising?
Lemming: The other white meat! :D
Good one. Score one for Rae!
Rae,
What happened with your hair cut? At the very least, does it smell great? I love the shampoo and stuff they use….
@MK: Ah, the haircut was postponed due to my stylist getting sick on Wednesday. So instead I’m getting it tomorrow afternoon. :) I like the way it makes my hair smell too, I wish my anti-psoriasis shampoos smelled as nice but let’s just say selenium sulfide shampoo has a very…peculiar smell. Blech.
I just like getting my hair washed, as far as I’m concerned, scalp massages are the BEST feeling in the world. :)
I get the ability to argue, MK: as I said, everyone I know is pro-choice. I enjoy arguing. It isn’t that much of a logical leap.
Just from my comparative sample, the majority of people here are extreme in both religious views and abortion views. As I said, I argue with pro-lifers, but I don’t personally know many. Every pro-lifer I have ever met has been religious, some more than others.
Rae,
You have not lived until you’ve had a Hong Kong shampoo and head massage!! Then there’s their 45 minute foot massage….
Less,
This is why we have a hard time taking you seriously sometimes…
As I said, I argue with pro-lifers, but I don’t personally know many.
I’m sure they do, but I do not know anyone who holds the pro-life view and isn’t very religious–and I do know quite a few pro-lifers.
Rae,
Put a few drop of rose or lavendar oil in your shampoo bottle…or mmmmmmm patchouli!
I still want a cell-pic of the new do!!!
Mary,
Do you need to go to Hong Kong or can you get one here somewhere…sounds like heaven….
Less,
I figure if you guys take HisMan and Jasper out of the mix, and we take Cameron and Smaug/Dr.Defense/Bobforprez/etc…out of the mix…neither side would have much to complain about.
So ignore your nemesis and we’ll ignore ours…
Sorry MK,
I know of no other place than Hong Kong, which I had the tremendous good fortune to visit while my nephew and his wife lived there on business.
I hear they make a mean lemming pizza there too!
Waaahhhhhh…I want to go to Hong Kong!
I wish they’d massage my knee!
MK: I guess a better phraseology would be that I know OF many pro-lifers, but personally know very few? I pretty much only get to argue online, as all the persons that I actually know are pro-choice, but I have a habit of seeking out debates online. All the abortion debates I’ve had have been with religious pro-lifers.
The internet tends to complicate English language, and this is one of those ways. I don’t know if that makes any more sense, but there you go. Also, I’ve been painting my various nails, and so my attention hasn’t been exclusively on this site, so that could contribute to the confusion.
Also, you’re right. The majority of the insults come from Hisman and jasper, with a few thrown in by Jill and Heather.
Less,
Also, you’re right. The majority of the insults come from Hisman and jasper, with a few thrown in by Jill and Heather.
And lets not forget Cameron and Smaug…
So let’s just call a truce and carry on with those that we respect…kay?
Sounds good to me, to be honest. It’s insults from both sides, like the ones seen on here, are what make people so very bitter about abortion and the debates regarding it. I wish there wasn’t the animosity on both sides, but there is. I’d love it if the rest of us could just carry on happily, and perhaps work towards goals we can agree on.
It seems like everyone on here has a person that they find difficult to deal with.
Cameron hates Jill, I loathe smaug, midnite has trouble with me, you don’t care much for Hisman, a number of you don’t like Jasper..
But that’s what life is all about really…dealing with the unpleasant in a constructive way…
When life hands you lemmings, make lemmingade!
It’s actually kind of interesting to have an internet nemesis, I don’t have one in real life. I try real hard, but no one seems to be particularly interested in being my evil nemesis who I can have epic battles with. Sigh and sadness. The closet I came was a guy at my school who was my Real Ultimate Nemesis for a while: we had staged newspaper sword duels in the school common area and everything. It was hardcore!
Oh well. It’s interesting how we all interact and argue and then discuss lemmings.
Less, how bout a big kiss?
Kiss, Kiss, Kiss…
and then draw blood!
Only on Jill’s site.
I’m engaged, sweetheart, and as my poor fiance seems to dislike the idea of threesomes (there is a LONG story behind this, no part of which is actually serious), I’m afraid I’ll have to turn you down. Also, I have a cold sore, and much as I dislike you, I’d never want to give you oral herpes. :)
ahhh, It’s OK, I don’t think my wife would approve…..
Jasper,
Of the herpes or the kiss??? lol
Probably either. XP
Hi Less,
without doubt I am likely one of the most pro-religious people you have ever encountered. Much of what I post are infused with this mentality, yet I would also be lying if I had not presented arguments (rejected without trying) that are clearly non-religious.
Many centuries ago a philosopher known as Thomas Aquinas proposed 6 proofs for God’s existence. No where at no time have these proofs been shown false. Instead these are just ignored. Here’s a few of these proofs: All being are comparable to each other …. we call this order. [To delve into order a bit better we have a body of knowledge known as a science. So there is no science of Less as there is no science of Jill, or of MK, or of Bethany, or of John …….] So why does order exist? PROOF II: Inanimate object cannot self-move, so what makes inanimate objects move? Thomas called God the PRIME MOVER. [The only concept that I have read that comes anywhere close to refuting this is Gaia …. the whole universe is in fact ‘alive’.]
Please note that these ‘proofs’ are not religious … I challenge you to prove God does not exist.
On numerous posts, I describe zinc-deficiency as being the likely candidate in depressions during pregnancy, postpartum depression, and likely PMS too. Rae’s hair fix brings me right back there. Usually two things control dandruff …. scalp itching etc. … one is selenium and the other is zinc.
I double-dare anyone to see a religious effort in zinc-deficit.
John, as I am an animistic pantheist (I do believe the whole universe is alive) I reject that God is the prime mover. I believe the universe is alive. So…your proofs aren’t particularly impressive to me.
I have PMDD. It’s a particularly severe form of PMS. As one of the most affective treatments for PMDD is Zoloft and other anti-depressants, the current theory is that it is caused by hormones associated with the menstrual cycle affecting amounts of serotonin (sp?) in the brain. This has nothing to do with zinc, believe me: I take my vitamins, have a particularly healthy diet, and don’t have any particular deficiencies.
@John: I have to say that my scalp issues are a bit more than “dandruff”. I have pretty severe scalp psoriasis that covers about 40% of the skin on my scalp and there is no cure, only annoying daily treatments that rarely work for very long. But you know what? I’m pretty darned desperate to get rid of this scalp nonsense and the depression nonsense as well, so perhaps I will try some zinc supplements this summer to see if they do in fact help.
@MK: Lemmingade…I was giggling when I read that. :) And I’ll have pictures of the haircut up by tomorrow evening (as it’s a Friday and I literally have *no* life…so I’ll be around). Oooh! I’m also attempting to cook a *real* meal for the first time tomorrow…curried chicken. I’m quite excited, I hope it turns out!
“I quickly realized that most of you are extreme in your views and don’t represent the majority of the pro-life movement.”
Less,
I am curious. What is your litmus test to determine extreme pro-life views?
What is your definition of a person who falls into “the pro-life majority?”
“It’s a particularly severe form of PMS”
well, that explains it…..
Rae, not to scare you or anything…but let’s just say that the first time I tried to make a curry the results were a bit…interesting.
Good luck!
Rae –
Did you ever figure out if it was the medicine that was causing the psorisis? Are you still on it, or did you decide to go off?
If you want to try nutrition, zinc etc. Try to find a holistic nutritionist. S/He should be able to balance everything correctly to make the zinc work more efficiently.
oh – I about forgot –
Congrats to MK and Bethany! I know you two will do a good job.
Congrats to MK and Bethany! You guys (well *girls*) are going to do great!
@Valerie: I asked my dermatologist and he said it was unlikely that the medications were causing the psoriasis because if it were the meds, it would have been all over my body as opposed to just on my scalp as it is with me. So I am still on them for the time being (though I am considering stopping them because I don’t think they are working as well as they used to and I want to see what it’s like to be without meds and try to find other ways with dealing with my problems instead of just medicating the crap out of them.
Besides…I think the medications stunt my creativity. ;-p
Excuse me, jasper, have you any idea of how offensive statements like that are? It demeans my views to PMS fueled rage: in truth, I’ve been on the birth control for over a year now, which has completely gotten rid of all of my moodswings. Why is it that when women have particularly strong opinions, it is dismissed simply as a byproduct of PMS?
Ugh, that is one of my biggest pet peeves, when women are dismissed with excuses like: “Oh, it’s PMS.” Or “oh, you’re just emotional because you’re a woman.” Ye Gods, get over yourself.
Sandy, the pro-life majority generally has exceptions for rape, incest, or the mother’s life. To me, extremists are usually characterized by inability to recognize any of the points of the other side, refusal to remove religion from the argument, refusal to find ways to prevent unwanted pregnancy, instead preferring to see premarital sex as an affront to human dignity that should be banned, and the idea that forcing women who are raped to continue the pregnancy is okay. Extremists also tend to attack people, particularly on religious grounds, and have a tendency to paint women who don’t regret their abortion as “evil” or “heartless,” instead of coming up with legitimate points that don’t involve name-calling.
Of course, not everyone on here does that. But the majority of you do not make exceptions for rape or incest and base your arguments on religion.
@Lauren: Thanks! I am probably going to need it…man I hope I don’t screw it up…I tried finding the easiest recipe I could and I snagged it from Rachel Ray’s website dealie…
less, it was a joke, relax….
Rae –
I think it is good that it isn’t the meds. Do you have someone that is very close to you that can be totally honest? I NEVER think my medication is helping and I have always wanted to stop taking them. However, when my husband began telling me what days I forgot to take them and what days I did, I realized that the meds were working, I just couldn’t see it. If you have someone that can be honest you might want to think about asking them to watch you and let you know when/if you need help. Also, since my depression is chemical I have to constantly change the dose that I am taking. This is why I have to see a psychiatrist every month for evaluation. Maybe the meds aren’t working as well because you need a lower or higher dose?
I understand the creativity thing. Mention that to your doctor. I was initially put on Ritalin for my ADD and I couldn’t write anything or even come up with stories. So I had to try several meds until I found that the Adderall didn’t make me a “mental zombie” and stopped my brain from being on overdrive.
Do you have any insurance? If you do, you may want to have your doctor referr you to a nutritionalist for a consultation. There have been a lot of new studies that have found that diet can really help with this kind of stuff.
Hi Less and Rae,
Seems to me you two (some pro-lifers too) need a lot of convincing that the world of orthodox medicine is an artificial one …. and tries to convince others of the ‘deeper OK-ness’ with artificial reasoning, artificial diseases, artificial fixes … etc. One way to look at disease is as a deficiency state: so when we have a depression, then we have a developed a deficiency of Zoloft state. Notice that never have I said these were not real difficulties …. resolving these problems by artificial means does not solve the problem … it only masks the symptoms.
Decades ago, my research led me to strongly suspect that zinc-deficiency was a major player in hundred of thousands of disorders. [It would in fact please me to no end to put all main-stream MD’s’s out-of-business permanently.] Two of these ‘thousands’ are PMS and psoriasis.
Zinc storage within the body can be thought of as lawns in the neighbourhood. It can be pictured as M = ground; zinc = grass seed heads; and taurine = grass shoots.
PMS is often characterized as a energy deficient phenomenon. The taurine linked to zinc and bound onto membranes is the sole potassium channel for cells. Many women have gotten PMS really require very high potassium supplements (400-600mg/day) . Others have had substantial relief from a supplement of evening primrose oil. [It alters the ‘M’ in relationship detailed above.]
On the other hand, psoriasis seems to have a fungal component and has been attacked with a blend of essential oils or MSM cream. Skin seems to have a strong skin presence, but Rae has mentioned troubles with depression on other occasions. Likely a zinc deficit is a common factor.
Just taking a zinc supplement would not have much effect (especially if a vegan lifestyle is pursued). For a chronic persistent deficit a person need take 50mg zinc + 5mg copper + 1000mg taurine each day with meat-containing-meals. [Lemmings are fine!] For PMS an additional supplement of potassium should help.
hope this helps…………..
John,
You made a Lemming joke…I LOVE it!!!!
John,
How interesting. I’m a big believer in alternative medicine myself and see an alternative doctor. I also work in a hospital so I am also a believer in orthodox medicine to some extent. My husband is diabetic and I insist on treating him with vitamins. He does need insulin, but has done very well with vitamins and supplements, if I do say so myself.
He is on no other drugs. He is using Anondyne for neuropathy which seems to be working. Its experimental, but so far the only thing that has helped years of neuropathy.
John, I’ve been looking up information on Zinc since you first brought it up on this site. I am considering going to the store and buying some zinc tablets, maybe eat more foods with potassium and the other things you mentioned, to see if they have an effect on my monthly symptoms. I usually get very tired, irritable, and sad during that time, for about 3 days. I’m going to experiment with it and see what happens.
I think I’ve gotta try some zinc. Does it help boost energy?