Where’s the love?
Two recent JillStanek.com blog posts have drawn the ire of liberal bloggers.
Adrian Monck at views on the news biz doesn’t appreciate my thoughts on Helen Thomas, particularly this section of my post:
What goes around comes around, Helen. In that circle of life, you’re a little too close to a time when you’re going to be as helpless as those preborns you advocate killing…
The first question elderly people seeking medical treatment should be asked is if they are pro-life or pro-choice. If they answer the latter, they should be moved to the back of the line.
Responded Monck….
A touching tribute to one of journalism’s octogenarian workers. As a card-carrying atheist and former choirboy, here’s a few words from Corinthians, Jill – “and the greatest of these is love.”
Of course, like all texts it’s open to interpretation. In this case I think Jill’s interpreting the New Testament as meaning “spew hate-filled invective.” I don’t care which side of the line you want to come down on regarding abortion, but peddling threats dressed up as commentary seems to me to rub the line right out.
Still, God bless her. And if I can annoy people like Jill at Helen’s age, God bless me too.
My response to Adrian:
My elderly health care plan was not about love, Adrian. It was about pragmatism and fairness.
If there are only so many doctors skilled in geriatrics, the majority of the rest having been killed by abortion, shouldn’t the elderly responsible for their killing bear the consequences?
Why should pro-life elderly pay the penalty? Where’s your sense of social justice?
And while one pro-abort on this blog thought Bethany’s “No regrets?” drawing was “gorgeous,” another didn’t. Responded dan at moveonandshutup.org, quite succinctly, I might add:
Jill Stanek surrounds herself with some seriously morbid m*****f*****s.
Tsk, tsk, dan. Just goes to show, one person’s treasure is another person’s trash, as they say. Bethany, I hope your feelings aren’t hurt… :)
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
That guy had some nerve. He’s offended by a little drawing, yet the fact that babies are treated like scrambled eggs doesn’t phase him? What a jerk!
I’m sorry, but I don’t which of the two pictures above is scarier…doesn’t that woman have any friends that would tell her, perhaps scarlet red lipstick isn’t the way to go…
MK, I second that. Seriously, yikes!
Actually, I think that’s pretty cool. Isn’t it nice to see a pro-choicer admitting (whether subconsciously or not) that abortion is “morbid”?
Bethany, it sure is.
I wonder if he thinks abortionists are morbid too? I mean, just to be consistent.
That guy had some nerve. He’s offended by a little drawing, yet the fact that babies are treated like scrambled eggs doesn’t phase him? What a jerk!
Ohhh, I never said I was offended there sweety, rather I pointed out the irony that this particular image is dubbed ‘pro-life’ artwork.
Well Dan,
Why don’t you explain why you find irony in the fact that this is a pro-life depiction?
Abortion is ugly. We are against abortion. Bethany has drawn a picture that shows how ugly abortion is. Why is that not a good argument for life?
Well MK, since you asked. The picture depicts what is presumably the mother as a ‘grim reaper’, which illustrates a certain assumption that the mother wants to have an abortion – that she’s somehow ‘happy’ about it, when it’s patently obvious that nobody is carrying around a free abortion coupon just waiting for the chance to use it. In that respect, dehumanizing the mother – rather depicting her as some sort of monster doesn’t really serve a pro-life interest, rather it serves to the same sort of whacked out world view that we see in places like….well…here.
Given the Stanek world view where “The problem with those whacky abortion people and the queers is that they want sex without consequences“, the reader assumes that the logical consequence to which she refers is a baby. If a baby is deemed a consequence in the world view, the reader must view the picture above through that same lens, which of course substantiates why the focus in this picture is the monster view of the mother.
“Bethany” the mommy blogger’s noir -without-the-class aside, the fundamental issue is that the pro-life movement will garner 0 steam by picking on mothers who are in a horrible situation. I’ve explained this before (explained this before http://capitalfax.blogspot.com/2007/02/note-to-wingers-youre-not-helping-us.html) as to why despite a complete ineptitude, pro-life leaders are still able to keep the issue’s pendulum at something close to 180 degrees, while have failed miserable to bring other issues under pro-life’s umbrella – simply based on whom the perceived victim is.
dan, Morbid motherf******? How much more morbid can you get than abortion? Ever see the video ‘The Choice Blues?’ Watch it, and then get back to me. WARNING…. Get your hurl bucket out.
Uh. Right Heather. I’ll add it to my netflix list.
Why won’t you watch it? I did. It was horrific. The reality of abortion. Tiny hands and feet being scraped out. Blood…lots of it. The second trimester abortion shows a damn near beheaded baby being expelled through the vagina.
Well MK, since you asked. The picture depicts what is presumably the mother as a ‘grim reaper’, which illustrates a certain assumption that the mother wants to have an abortion – that she’s somehow ‘happy’ about it, when it’s patently obvious that nobody is carrying around a free abortion coupon just waiting for the chance to use it. In that respect, dehumanizing the mother – rather depicting her as some sort of monster doesn’t really serve a pro-life interest, rather it serves to the same sort of whacked out world view that we see in places like….well…here.
Really? You think she looks happy?
Oh yes, she looks ecstatic.
Really? You think she looks happy?
Not at all. It’s the underlying assumption that leads me to the conclusion.
Let’s do this Bethany:
If an abortion takes place, who is the mother?
a. A villain, a monster, an angel of death
b. a woman in a horrible situation whom had to make a horrible decision
Pick one. A. Or B.
I think it’s interesting to see how pro-choice views this drawing. I find it amusing that there is actually someone who feels that I portrayed the woman as “happy”. If you find anyone else blogging their perspective about this drawing, please post them too, Jill, or send me an email! :)
I pick A.
If an abortion takes place, who is the mother?
a. A villain, a monster, an angel of death
b. a woman in a horrible situation whom had to make a horrible decision
A second victim of the culture of death. Notice how the woman is being consumed by death.
Here are the usual excuses for abortion. I will tell you the ones I have heard personally. “I’m too young to have a kid.” Not at 20. “I don’t have the finances.” You have a home, a car, and an excellent job. “My boyfriend is abusive.” Well, get the f*** away from him. “My boyfriend and I aren’t getting along.” Well, you were sleeping with him last month. “My parents will kill me.” No they won’t. Besides, you’re 30!
Sorry. I shouldn’t swear on Sunday.
Great Heather. So you view the woman as an evil monster. Awesome. So this picture accurately reflects your opinion on the topic?
Bethany, your picture doesn’t depict her being ‘consumed by death’ as you so eloquently BS around the question. Your picture depicts the mother being the instrument of death.
Well, she is simultaneously both.
So, you are correct, Dan.
Here are the usual excuses for abortion. I will tell you the ones I have heard personally. “I’m too young to have a kid.” Not at 20. “I don’t have the finances.” You have a home, a car, and an excellent job. “My boyfriend is abusive.” Well, get the f*** away from him. “My boyfriend and I aren’t getting along.” Well, you were sleeping with him last month. “My parents will kill me.” No they won’t. Besides, you’re 30!
I would say that despite your oversimplification of the matter, those are all legitimate concerns. Especially the stuff about the boyfriend – I mean you’re all about ‘the family’ right?
dan, have you ever heard of a really good excuse for an abortion? I have yet to hear a woman say; “My life is in danger.” “If I don’t have an abortion, my doctor says I will die.” You would get my sympathy on that one. I have NEVER heard it.
Well, I was in an abusive relationship. I also discovered that I was pregnant. I left!
I would say that despite your oversimplification of the matter, those are all legitimate concerns. Especially the stuff about the boyfriend – I mean you’re all about ‘the family’ right?
Dan, so are you saying that if she gets the abortion, this solves the abusive relationship?
What do you think the solution would be? Get away from him, or get an abortion, and go right back to be abused some more?
Seeing as most women likely don’t want to have an abortion (you do agree with that, right?) I would look very deeply at the validity of any reason that would force them to take that plunge.
Or do you just gloss over it with platitude?
How about this? If I have an abortion, I am really no better than the abuser. He’s a woman beater, and I’m a murderer.
Be a woman. Stand up! You can turn to a lot of organizations today.
How about this? If I have an abortion, I am really no better than the abuser. He’s a woman beater, and I’m a murderer.
What a nuanced opinion! Here I thought this was a deep and multifaceted issue of social concerns, ethical concerns, and individual concerns. But I think you’ve just cleared my opinion by summing the vast tapestry up with the world’s greatest platitude!
Do you so deeply look at the validity of reasons that parents put their children in microwaves, or drown their born children? We can feel sorry for their mental state at the time, but I’m sorry if I feel a little bit more sorry for the victim than the one who victimized them.
This is just a point of curiosity to see how well you’ve thought out your own stance:
You advocate that a single mother have a baby – so the baby takes precedent over ‘the family’?
Here I thought this was a deep and multifaceted issue of social concerns, ethical concerns, and individual concerns.
I guess you are overanalizing something that is very simple. Killing another innocent human being is wrong, no matter what the circumstances behind the act are. It’s really that simple.
Do you so deeply look at the validity of reasons that parents put their children in microwaves, or drown their born children?
I’d say there’s a difference between one who exercises a god-given and legal right to a medical procedure and one who ‘puts their baby in a microwave’. But feel free to gloss over the details!!!
You advocate that a single mother have a baby – so the baby takes precedent over ‘the family’?
No, silly. The baby is part of the family already.
Well, it’s been fun, Dan, but I’ll have to continue this Monday…gotta get ready for church. Hope you’ll stop by again then! :)
I guess you are overanalizing something that is very simple. Killing another innocent human being is wrong, no matter what the circumstances behind the act are. It’s really that simple.
LOL. With a world view like that, you epitomize the definition of Mommy Blogger!
No, silly. The baby is part of the family already.
Nothing like having a world view in a vacuum.
How about the unborn child being torn limb from limb and vacuumed out?
So you have no logical argument besides some whimsical horror story and gross platitude?
Man, why discuss Roe V. Wade and women’s rights when you can instead have the 30,000 foot view with a fable that came out of a 1970’s slasher movie!
dan, muder is murder. You just can’t sugar coat it. Watch that video. I’d like to hear if you think it’s murder or not. If not, why?
Bethany, that is a beautiful picture! You are so talented. Dont ever let anyone tell you otherwise!
Samantha T. I was just asking about you yesterday! Where have you been?
Dan, I think you are a little confused, btw. A “morbid motherf*****,” by definition, would not be a person who depicts her interpretation of a no-regrets post-abortive mother. Rather, a person fitting that description would be the father of the aborted fetus who supported his partner’s decision.
dan, muder is murder.
Yay!!! More platitude and gross oversimplification!!!
If that’s the case, why is it Roe V. Wade didn’t talk about ‘murder’, rather it talked about medical privacy? See, it would be great if the issue were that simple. And if it were, you’d have won this argument way back when.
But it’s not. Maybe that’s why your side has failed so often, ended up in jail so often, and found most of your own political party thinking that you’re a bunch of crackpots.
@dan
I hate to break it to you Dan but nobody does an action that they do not “want,” unless someone is physically forcing them, and even then its questionable if a physically coerced action even is done by said person to begin with. Mothers who go into the clinic and sit down and fill out the paperwork and wait in the waiting room and go through with the operation are by no means forced. As much as we should have sympathy for them in the sense that they are skewed by society and lied to by various organizations, essentially they chose to take the life of their fetus.
“I’d say there’s a difference between one who exercises a god-given and legal right to a medical procedure and one who ‘puts their baby in a microwave’. But feel free to gloss over the details!!!”
Oh wow…tell me youre kidding? How old are you again? I havent seen the “WELL DUH IT LEGAL LOL!!!” argument since I was 12. Even then I knew it was inherently flawed.
Look Dan, my suggestion to you is that you just back out of any arguments proceeding here. You are clearly unequiped to debate in a rational philosophical argument as shown by this statement alone. I was going to actually adress your points but upon stubbling onto that one I realize you do not have any understanding of the flow of basic logic.
Youre probably one of those people that say “LOL AN ANALOGY??! THAT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN IN REAL LIFE LOL!!! YOURE STUPID!”
Heather, my dog messed up my computer and I have been internetless for a little while! How are you and the baby doing?
Alright guys, Dan is a troll. Hes not making any rational arguments, he is just trying to upset Bethany. Just ignore him.
hate to break it to you Dan but nobody does an action that they do not “want,” unless someone is physically forcing them, and even then its questionable if a physically coerced action even is done by said person to begin with. Mothers who go into the clinic and sit down and fill out the paperwork and wait in the waiting room and go through with the operation are by no means forced. As much as we should have sympathy for them in the sense that they are skewed by society and lied to by various organizations, essentially they chose to take the life of their fetus.
Oliver, why do women have abortions? Tell me why. Give me the reason. Because they enjoy it?
Oh wow…tell me youre kidding? How old are you again? I havent seen the “WELL DUH IT LEGAL LOL!!!” argument since I was 12. Even then I knew it was inherently flawed.
Well, if it were just as simple as ‘murder’ like your simple minded friends would like us to believe, then why is it not deemed ‘illegal’?
Look Dan, my suggestion to you is that you just back out of any arguments proceeding here. You are clearly unequiped to debate in a rational philosophical argument as shown by this statement alone. I was going to actually adress your points but upon stubbling onto that one I realize you do not have any understanding of the flow of basic logic.
Let’s be honest: You can’t possibly comprehend half of what I’m saying to you, because in the end you’re so indoctrinated with misogyny, religious fundamentalism, and the stanekesque arguments by oversimplification, that you’ve lost your ability to use things like ‘critical thinking’ to articulate your position beyond ‘murder is murder’. That, and you haven’t read a book since the late 80’s.
…wow. Yes you are right I havent read a book since the 80’s. Good one dude.
Q. What’s Oliver’s favorite wine?
A. You don’t agree with any of my basic premises and you challenge my assumptions using a differing systemic view of the world. WAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa….
I have to wonder why some, not all, pro-choicers, like Dan, must resort to profanity and name calling.
I’ve found that people resort to this when they can’t give any kind of intelligent argument for what they believe in.
Yes you are right I havent read a book since the 80’s.
Doesn’t surprise me.
He is probably 15 years old.
LOL. “profanity and name calling”.
Offended?
Sigh….I was hoping for a good debate from a pro-choicer with a head on his shoulders.
Dan,
No I’m not the least bit offended. Its exactly what I expect.
Samantha T. We are good. You have been missed. Oliver, I tend to agree. Let’s not forget who loves abortion. Answer; Irresponsible and Cowardly men! They have no idea what abortion looks like. Don’t want to know. Just get to the clinic and get it done.
Mary, both you and I have experienced the “all pro choice blogs” They do nothing but curse, agree with each other, and name call. What fun!
Sorry, I cannot excuse myself or my own cursing from time to time. I am also guilty, but I’m working on it.
If I hear oversimplification or platitude again, I just might oversimplify my platitude. Maybe I’ll show gratitude on my platitude. Perhaps I will oversimplify on the fly. LOL! I just couldn’t resist.
Dan,
because in the end you’re so indoctrinated with misogyny, religious fundamentalism,
Seeing as most women likely don’t want to have an abortion
rather it serves to the same sort of whacked out world view that we see in places like….well…here.
I’m sorry, were you accusing us of using platitutdes?
Dude just ignore him. Hes just trying to piss everyone off to show how mature the pro-choice side is and how immature we are by getting angry at his pointless insults.
Bu then again what do I know, apparently the last book I read was “Goodnight Moon!” in 1988.
Hi Jill,
dan made a comment that I had found strange until I realized that he had not read some of the incredible stuff reviewing Roe vs Wade posted just last week.
For dan its this historic precedent that is important … and (for us) it’s judgements questionable. For others its the philosophical battle … eg Diana, Lyssie. For some, its the science (medicine, biology) that counts. [I keep wondering how many pro-choicers are persuaded of the ‘rightness’ of abortion because of its medical AMA-endorsement or its medical underpinning (ie. surgical procedure or use of prostaglandins/hormones).] For yet others, its the destruction of identity and their personal emptiness that pervades the aimlessness of pro-choice witness.
Perhaps we can offer some of these pro-life gems as our gifts. These ‘gifts’ are archived posts to these questions. [There are many who are so entrenched in their position, both pro-choicers and pro-lifers. This might help!]
Is there a way to collect some of the prominent posts that have these already discussed? It saves so much time not retracing the steps yet again!
Answer; Irresponsible and Cowardly men! They have no idea what abortion looks like.
That’s interesting that while making the woman out to be a ‘monster’ (by your own statements) your association with the male involved is that he’s cowardly and not masculine.
Nop! No woman hatin’ here!!
Masculine? What is so masculine or feminine about abortion? You even said that it was an awful choice to make. Why would it be so “AWFUL” if it were an easy thing to do?
Heather, why are you making a circular argument?
Calling a man ‘cowardly’ when his partner has an abortion whilst calling a woman “the angel of death” when she has an abortion is a strangely duplicitous standard, which entirely substantiates the pro-choice crowd’s argument.
And you wonder why you’ve spent the last 30+ years with no progress.
dan, you didn’t answer my question. What do you call a man who agrees with abortion? A stinkin coward! Why? No child support, no obligations, no ties, no wedding vows to take, etc.
It isn’t circular. Is abortion an easy choice to make? If not, why?
Dan,
We’ve made no progress? Please go to the NARAL website and hear it from them about the “dismal D-” this nation has when it comes to abortion “rights”. You can also view state by state the “dismal” statistics of fewer clinics and providers, as well as state laws regulating and restricting abortion and clinics. You will not get the impression that NARAL is overjoyed by “the last 30+ years with no progess” on the part of the pro-life movement.
Mary, I took a look. What are they so upset about? I thought they were winning.
Hi all.
Firstly, you cannot make generalizations about all pro-choicers. i do not swear, and i do not “agree” with many pro-choice people. A lot are complete idiots. but the same goes for the pro-life side. The number of PL people who cannot grasp a simple concept like “murder is a legal term” is astounding.
Now as for the First response.
Some respect for someone who has worked and done so much should be shown. Also, are you saying that because someone is not AGAINST abortion (even if they never had one) they should be refused medical treatment? cuz im pretty sure thats against the US constitution. Then again, im no yank, i’ll have to look it up.
As for the second, i think the picture is beautiful. then again, i AM a morbid mother f*****.
Art takes many forms,,,, thats whats so cool about it.
Sorry, i dont know why that posted 2x.
dan, I would say that the PBA ban is progress.
Heather4life,
My point exactly.
Jon,
Welcome to this site. I’m a little confused by your comment concerning medical care and the US constitution. Would you kindly clarify it?
Hello Jon. Welcome.
Thank you for the welcomes.
What i meant was, i BELIEVE, under the first amendment you cannot punish someone based on religion, political affiliation, race, things they say, or things the think.
I was under the impression that these are all thing protected by the constitution.
for instance, I am a communist (not a Stalinist before everyone goes all McCarthy on me) and i know most Americans are NOT communists. but were i to immigrate to the US, i could not be persecuted for my political belief.
right?
Of course you wouldnt.
I think the real issue here is the misunderstanding of Jill’s comment. She doesn’t *literally* mean to deny people rights based on their beliefs, she is trying to draw attention to the inconsistant beliefs of certain people, in this case elderly people wanting to live forever who also deny life to others (in an exageratted nutshell.)
As for murder being a legal term only, you better check your definition. Murder is both a legal term and a moral term. So when we say that abortion is murder, we mean of course in the moral sense that it is the premeditated killing of someone for morally unjustifiable reasons.
Oliver. Thank you, i was fairly certain i would not be denied/harassed. And i agree with the double standard many have (on both sides).
I also took your advice and looked up Murder in the Oxford Dictionary, and this is what i found:
murder
I apologize. I looked my definition up in 10 different online dictionaries ranging from MSN encarta to just “dictionary.com.” Although several did agree also with my defintion, most seemed to only contain the legal defintion.
However….we run into an personal pet peeve of mine. The denotation of murder seems to be most upheld as being legal in nature (although apparently also in some cases the moral definition as well) The connotation on the otherside has evolved to include the moral implication as well ( a crime against humanity if you will) My peeve is that language is intended for the communication of ideas, so the connotation, or the evolved meaning of the word should be the only thing neccesary for conversation, unless there is literal confusion.
You are not confused when a pro-life person uses it, so you are honestly just being nitpicky. Hence the part that peeves me.
But I will at least admit that most dictionaries tend to agree with you.
Jon,
We have premeditated, we have the killing of one person by another. The only thing we don’t have is the illegal. BUT, we did have that thirty years ago.
AND, with fetal homicide laws in over half the states, 10 of which consider it murder from the moment of conception, what we have here is not so much something that is legal and therefore right as something that is legal sometimes, someplaces, for some reasons, by some people…
It’s the inconsistencies that throw a wrench in the argument that it’s not “murder” because it’s legal.
If you want to be technical, and speak in legalese, then no, at this time abortion is not murder. But if you change one part of that sentence it suddenly becomes murder again.
30 years ago, abortion was murder. And killing a fetus in some instances today is still murder.
What confuses us is the fact that the law can change according to whim. It’s murder if the life taken was wanted, it’s not murder if the life taken wasn’t wanted. Isn’t it the same life?
And aren’t you the guy that was arguing that a cancer cell is a human being?
Hello to you too Oliver. Welcome.
Oliver,
Welcome. I hope you’ll stick around. We need a replacement for Rasqual and it seems like you’d do perfectly.
Cameron has disappeared and I’m wondering if Jon and Dan L are auditioning for the job. I’d say right about now they are tied, but neither one is nearly as entertaining as our dear Cam. I miss him.
MK, I agree. Not only have we had legalized murder in this country for 30+ years, we also have plenty of people making a handsome profit of of pro choice merchandise. Mary directed me to that Naral web site, so I browsed around for a while. What did I find? A pretty little T-shirt with a lady sniffing flowers. It simply says ” HER CHOICE” Order now. Just $19.95. One of many to select from. Apparently murder is big business.
Some will use the term “murder” to describe hunting or the killing of any animal, such as when someone shoots their dog or send animals to slaughter.
I have offended many women when I have called abortion murder. I have grown tired of being polite. Most women get really ticked. They try very hard to convince me that it was okay because of the legality. They don’t appreciate anyone who won’t tell them what they want to hear.
Hey Heather,
How did the surgery go?
“I’m sorry, but I don’t which of the two pictures above is scarier…doesn’t that woman have any friends that would tell her, perhaps scarlet red lipstick isn’t the way to go…”
I knew the pro-lifers would go after her looks, that’s all I’ve been reading pro-lifers say about her is how she looks scary or something. I mean you all seem really shallow. Maybe red lipstick makes her feel pretty, do you really want to take that away from her? I mean who cares what you think anyway? You should focus on a persons inner beauty and don’t just bitch about their physical apperence. You make pro-life look ugly.
MK, it went okay. It was a piece of glass! I have a surgical shoe to wear. I look like Herman Munster. It’s also bandaged up with a Kerlix and an ace wrap. Vicodin for pain.
Lil, I just don’t like what she stands for. Killing babies just ain’t my thing.
She makes pro choice look positively frightening! I feel much the same way about abortionist Leroy Carhart. That guy could wake the dead with those looks. Sorry, he kills children for a living. BTW, Would you want him to work on YOUR insides? He can’t even get his toupe on straight.
So someone gets into a car accident and is disfigured. Are they suddenly less of a person? My cousin got into an accident on his bike and had half his face scrapped off but I still love him and care about him as a person. Shallow if you choose doctors based on looks.
Lil,
A comment about lipstick is pro-lifers going after her because of her looks? This shows our shallowness? Please. I can think of considerably worse comments that could have been made but weren’t, and as far as I’m concerned, should not be.
Speaking of shallow Lil, try going to a pro-choice blog and posting an opposing viewpoint. After you’ve been hit with the profanity, name-calling, and infantile insults, you will realize what shallow really is.
Regardless, we really shouldnt be stooping to their level. Sure its all fun and games to point out the humor that this women upholds essentially evil beliefs and also looks like a troll, but honestly, were better than that.
Oliver,
You have a sense of humor too! Hurrah!
I commented on her looks on another post and said I knew that I would get in trouble for it, but every time I see her picture scrolling down the posts (and NOW there are TWO of them) I totally get creeped out. And you’re right. If she was pro-life I probably would have let it go, but it’s like what this woman has stood for all her life is oozing onto the outside.
It’s actually a lot like Bethanys picture in that way. Her face has begun to reflect the evil that is inside her.
And as for her lipstick, that didn’t happen in any car accident. She is wearing it by CHOICE…you know, the ability to pick what you do? If my mother was wearing that shade, I would love her enough to say something to her…hence the comment about a lack of friends.
And Oliver, you shouldn’t compare her to a troll.
It gives trolls a bad name.
Every once in a great while you need to stoop to reach the garbage…
Just because she has friends doesnt mean she would listen to them. I mean you have to be able to change your frame of mind in order to take advice.
There really is no “their level” seeing as people form both sides can be immature and resort to name-calling. Mary, I think you look Lil’s comment too seriously. She never said anything about “your shallowness” as a group. She simply said that that is a shallow way to choose a doctor. Honestly …
MK and Oliver, LOL! Mary, how true! Dear Lord, have you ever read what pro choicers [ not here ] had to say about Mother Teresa? How about the Pope? I refuse to repeat it. Too vulgar. I definitely think this woman could look like Elizabeth Taylor, but if she was that hellbent on Choice, she would still become ugly to me. There really is something to inner beauty, and this lady just ain’t got it! Yes, I know that’s not proper English.
Leroy Carhart is an evil abortionist. He is not a doctor!
MK,
My daughter must love me more than words can tell since she has “loved” me enough to tell me I look like a dork in some outfits and I should stop wearing “mom pants”. I had never heard of “mom pants”. Trouble is, when I saw myself in some old pictures, she was right! Argh. I looked THAT bad? Let’s just say my daughter didn’t inherit her excellent sense of style from me.
I think you should know that Carhart tried to run over a sidewalk counselor, and he never even called 911 to get help. He never even asked if the guy was okay. It was all on video, so I saw it for myself. That would influence me in choosing him as a doctor!
Uh huh …
Heather, I really hope you won’t judge all pro-choicers on what some of them say. I, personally, (obviously) do not agree with Mother Teresa’s views no abortion, but she still did so much and helped so many people. As for the Pope … I have a problem with the setup of the Catholic Church, but I would never personally attack the Pope unless I knew him. Nor would most other people. I beg you to keep in mind that most of us are perfectly rational people just trying to argue our point like most of you pro-lifers–despite the few extremists who like to bomb abortion clinics. I know most pro-lifers would not want their cause to be associated with those people, yes?
Here is a quote I read on a pro choice blog about Mother Teresa; “I hated her.” “I hope that wretched old hag rots in hell.”
Nope, I’m not planning to bomb any clinics. I value my freedom too much.
Leah,
I was responding to Lil’s 3:46PM post, not the one in which she was talking about a doctor.
I would agree with you that name calling and immaturity can be seen on both sides, as I pointed out to Lil.
Good call, Heather. :)
Sorry, Mary–my bad.
Don’t worry Mary, I told my mom the same thing. She wore things from 1983 well into 2000. She thanked me later…
I got a bad haircut once and I looked like Zombo…LOL!
To those who care:
I’m planning on leaving this blog and cease commenting. I would like to say thank you for the conversations and debate and I would like to know that as much as it probably didn’t seem like it to you, I did value your input and I did in fact take some of the things you said into consideration.
That being said, I enjoyed most of the conversations I’ve had with people here and I dare say I’ve learned quite a bit and I hope that my comments were worthwhile to read every once and awhile too.
If anybody feels the need to email me or talk to me, my email is kendranoelle@hotmail.com and for those who are wondering…”Rae” isn’t my real name, it’s my middle name. My real name is actually “Alison”.
Alison, why are you leaving? I hate to see you go, but I will e-mail you.
Alison, I just e-mailed you.
Thats too bad to hear Rae (hope you dont mind, but it seems clearer to use your SN than your real one.)
Im always up for debating level headed pro-choicers and you seemed like one.
Jasper,
Can you answer a quick question for me?
Do you get off on making feel bad about themselves or feeling like they are lower than you?.
You remind me of all the stuck up snotty bit$#es I went to high school with. Does it make you feel good to think that you higher or better than someone else? Do you make it your life’s mission to insult people and make them feel like they are $hit? B/c I’ve got news for you buddy, you are no better than anyone else in this world (and especially NOT Rae)!!
You twist people’s words around to make you sound smarter and “godlier” than anyone who disagrees with you. And that is truly pathetic. You call them cowards and insult them to the best of your ability, and why? To make you feel better about yourself, to think you are going to Heaven, or is it to impress other people on here?
You truly deserve to burn in Hades for the things you said to Rae (and to me in the past), and I hope you feel like utter $hit for the rest of your life.
And I could have sworn you called yourself a “Christian”.
Rae,
I care and I do NOT want to see you leave this blog. I hope you will reconsider. Please.
So someone gets into a car accident and is disfigured. Are they suddenly less of a person? My cousin got into an accident on his bike and had half his face scrapped off but I still love him and care about him as a person. Shallow if you choose doctors based on looks.
Leah,
No problem
Lauren,
So did I!! My daughter is now after me about my hair, which she also says is from the 80’s. This from a girl who had the most gorgeous head of hair any woman would kill for, that she hacked, dyed, straightened, and…..oh it breaks my heart to think about it!!
Lil, You are missing my point! I am talking about a corrupt abortionist. You are talking about your cousin. I don’t pick my doctors based on looks. Carhart is a goof. He looks like a pervert, and he has a very bad reputation as an abortionist.
Carhart[less] was performing an abortion. All of a sudden, he left his patient spread eagle on the operating table to go outside and throw stones at his own office windows. Say Whaaaaaaa????
Midnite,
Rae,
Jasper,
Okay…this has gotten way out of hand.
I was on last nite when Jasper and Rae went at it.
I haven’t said anything before and I think I owe Rae an apology…
I do NOT believe that Jasper is a mean person. I know that what he says to you guys is from his heart.
HOWEVER,
There are times when I have cringed at some of the things he has said. I should have spoken up a long time ago.
All of us have been blogging for months now and Val, Bethany, Mary and I are very, very, very careful to treat you guys like the human beings that you are. You are each delightful (albeit sometimes frustrating) and I have grown to love each of you in a very special way. It is a fine line that we walk here…We love that you guys have stuck around and continued to converse with us despite our differences.
Which is why we don’t attack, don’t belittle, and don’t make you feel like dirty little scum…
Rae,
You have made it clear that you are not sexually active, don’t drink, don’t take drugs…you are always kind, slow to attack and quick to defend.
You have never, ever, ever crossed a line here.
You are everything I want my own daughter to be!
You are beautiful…
While we have been trying to teach you a new way to look at things, by not jumping down Jasper’s throat, I was hoping he would see that you have a much better chance at reaching people if you climb rung by rung with them, rather than stand at the top of the ladder and look down at them. I was hoping he would see the relationships that have been carefully built here by respecting each other and yes, even growing to love each other…
We should never have let it get this far. I emailed Val last nite and we both agreed that we needed to address this issue and Jasper in particular.
Jasper,
I love you too. But these girls are young, and Rae in particular is a GOOD girl, a GOOD person, no, a GREAT person. When you attack her like that it really hurts! There are some girls on here who need to be taken down a peg or two, I’ll grant you that, but Rae IS NOT ONE OF THEM!
I don’t know how to fix this. I don’t know if it can be fixed, but I for one feel as if I am losing a dear, dear friend. And I just had to say something!
Rae, please, don’t leave. It will break my heart.
Midnite, you are a good friend to come to Alison’s defense.
Jasper, please email Rae…make this better. I’m asking you as one Catholic to another. I know you don’t realize how harsh you can sound, you big dumb beast, but please, see it now. Fix this.
Please…
oh no, what the hell did I do?
I’m sorry.
my letter to Rae.
I don’t know if it’s going to bring her back, but I tried.
########################
Hi Rae,
I’m truly sorry, I won’t address you like that again, there all pretty upset with me there. I can see that they Love you and your input.
Please consider,
Jasper (Steve)
Did I miss something last night?
MK,
I must admit; I am suprised. I was (almost) positive that y’all would take Jasper’s side or just delete my post and ignore me. But I am pleasently suprised that you are actually agreeing with me.
The way he talked to Rae is just ridiculous (cant say the word that really comes to mind). Rae is a beautiful person with a beautiful personality & soul as well. I refuse to standby and watch someone verbally attack any of my friends (MK- I may not be as “great” as Rae, but as you said, I am a great friend). Nor is she as “tough skined” as I am, so thus my act to not stay quiet.
MK, I must applaud you for not staying quiet this time and standing up to Jasper. If he doesnt stop with his “bullying” ways, I will be forced to follow Re, and quit posting here (although I doubt any of you would miss me as much as her).
Jasper,
Thank you. If you are sincere, then that is all you can do…but if she comes back you have to keep your word.
I would hate to lose you too Jasper. I hope we can work this out…
*ear scratch*
*swat on the rump*
Midnite,
I’m sorry if I ever offended you, would you forgive me?
I thought we were all getting along. *scratches head*
Well, except for dan and myself.
Apparently we both did Heather. I have no idea what this is about, I only hope Rae and Jasper make amends.
Jasper, if you succeed in keeping Rae on this site, I’ll give you another tacklehug, even though it might send you through the wall.
Rae, please, please reconsider. I’ll give you a tacklehug too, but I’ll walk instead of run so I don’t send you flying through the wall! Please?!
Jasper,
Yes, you know for a fact that you have offended me in the past. But I forgave you a while ago about that. Although I must tell you, I dont foget things ver easily. As long as you mind your p’s and q’s with me, I shall do the same, b/c I dont attack unless provoked.
Now then, I need some wine….
Midnite,
While you’re not averse to attacking Jasper for any reason, I heard the sincerity in your voice, and sticking up for the people you care about is an admirable quality…
It is not true that we wouldn’t miss you. I hope we don’t have a deluge of desertions…
I meant it when I said that I had come to love all of you. Some people are easier to “love” than others, an Rae just brings out my maternal instincts. Yes Midnite, you can be fiery, but that’s not a bad thing. We need and want ALL of you guys. I would miss you terribly if you left.
While I know that you don’t believe in God, I don’t think it is coincidence that we all came on here at relatively the same time…I believe there is a reason. And we have all overcome so many obstacles, and yet, instead of leaving when it got hard, we ALL forged ahead and formed “true” friendships. YOU guys are the reason Mary, Val, Bethany and I keep coming back…
Don’t underestimate yourself Midnite, or how much you mean to me…
midnite needs a glass of wine. My foot hurts. I need another Vicodin.
Quite honestly, ALL of you folks on this blog are very addicting. I love you all. I must admit you do nothing to help me get things done around my house since I can’t tear myself away from you at times. All together we give this blog a great personality. I hope it will stay that way.
I don’t think any of us met by coincidence either. I was blogging on Operation Rescue, and they had an article about Jill. I thought I would leave one comment and leave. For some odd reason, I decided to stay. MK was one of the first bloggers to come along, and I did enjoy reading her posts.They kept me hooked. She and Jill gave a welcoming feeling. At first, I didn’t want to stay because some of the pro choicers really hurt my feelings. I was pregnant @ the time, and very emotional. I thought about leaving too. Just too much to take. I ended up staying. I’m certainly not saying that I deserve a metal, but I feel like I know you guys as new friends. I know I can come here and talk to a familiar person.
Hear that everybody?
Midnite, Rae, Heather, Val, Bethany, Jill,
Midnite is bringing the wine, Heather is bringing the Vicodin, I’ll bring the mullets, lemmings and my son and dog, and we’re all meeting at Mary’s to help clean her house….
Jasper, if you really want to make it up to us, you can rent the Limo…and we want a streeeeettttch Limo!
From Phooey, to Lemmings, to Camerons Wedding, to Jeffrey Dahmer, to Roads/cups/keys/and walls, to Johnny Depp and Rum, and Harry, PBA and PAS, Baby Elliot, Mandy and Med school, Terri Schiavo, Margaret Sanger, The video “Nurse” to the video “Laughing Baby”, Paul Zindel to ST Paul,
Let’s raise our glasses, to new friends and new ideas, and to good times, good times…
Breakfast is on me…
(and if anyone gets egg on their face, Jasper will bring the napkins…)
Seriously Rae, how can you walk away from all of that…
Awwwwww, MK, you do care!! I think I could cry!
And yes, I dont even bring out maternal instincts in my mother anymore (so no hard feelings there), she realized when I was 14, that I was independent and could take of myself.
And, as to being “fiery”, I had to be growing up. I grew up with two cops, and was the baby in the family with only guy cousins, not to mention all of my friends are (mostly) guys. I have to be, or I’d get walked all over, and as I said earlier, I am more “thick skinned” than Rae.
And I love you all too as well. The boyfriend doesnt understand why I am addicted to this site (or blogging as he calls it). But alas, I need rehab for this site and facebook. ::shrug::
As to the whole God thing, only time will tell MK. And as I’ve told you before, I am not an athiest, I am agnostic. I just dont know if I am in the right place to “figure it out” yet or not. Time will tell eventually…
::Pours another glass of wine::
My first thoughts of pro choicers were very negative. I had gone to all CHOICE blogs at first. They kept deleting my posts. After sticking it out for a while, I realized that everyone has something to bring to the table. Nobody is perfect, and I don’t think any one of us claim to be. I have even had a few pro lifers disagree with me. The issue of abortion is tough. It’s emotional. It can become frustrating and exhausting. I’m glad everyone is here. However, I am excluding the likes of SOMG aka Dr. Defense.
“Jasper, if you really want to make it up to us, you can rent the Limo…and we want a streeeeettttch Limo!”
OK.
this one’s for you Rae
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn-enjcgV1o
Now can someone please make that scary lady on this post go away…”Hush Hush Sweet Charlotte” keeps running through my head…
oops, medal. I do need glasses.
oops, medal. I do need glasses.
jasper, that was cute!
you know the title of this blog “where’s the love” is quite appropriate if you ask me…
and if we meet in birmingham, I can get the 2007 H2 Hummer stretch for a nice price Jasper…Only got it Friday with only 500 miles on it, BRAND NEW.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=by2tDZ5UCIg
Hmm…any chance you all can bring fruit juice? I don’t like/can’t drink alcohol. =(
I’ll bake some biscotti though!
By the way, MK, the friend (or rather, my boyfriend) liked your analysis. Only a couple things were wrong, but he’ll tell you all about it once he gets back from his family reunion. =)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=PJV9EMkv0u4
That must be Charlotte!
Ok, it’s on me Midnite. Really.
Stephanie, you want some sweet tea or fruit juice?
You guys are forgetting the lemmings pizza! How could you??
But you are in a wheel chair Blanche, you are in a wheel chair…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UknjawgsBOM&mode=related&search=
Thanks Stephanie.
Midnite…can you talk to Rae? It would mean a lot.
Baby Jane…Charlotte…the resemblance is uncanny, isn’t it?
midnite, my grandmother used to make the best Southern “sweet tea” Yum!
Either or, I like both. =)
Hey, hey. I have to go to a clinical tonight at 11pm-7am for my EMT class. It’s in Oakland (ie, probably lots of gunshot wounds and drunken people who have been beat up). Anyone know what that’s like?
Wow! The resemblance IS striking! Wasn’t Betty Davis jealous of her sis in this movie?
My friend had to do that when she got a DUI, they made her do a “clinical” at UAB (huge trauma ER, best in the southeast actually), and I dont know what she saw, but she never drove drunk again and wouldnt talk about her visit to the ER
Do you think Helen Thomas is Bette Davis in cognito?
Oh and Stephanie, if you want good southern sweet tea, use luizanne tea (not lipton of red diamond, that stuff is $hit, add sugar to taste, but OMG, it is amazing
Stephanie, cool! I am also in the medical profession. I thought about EMT for a while. You will never be bored!
My son Kevin wants to be a fireman and does ride alongs with the fire dept all the time…he had to give CPR to a woman the other nite and she died. And I thought teaching pre-school was tough. Good Luck Steph…
MK, YES!
Jasper,
When you are bad you are horrid…
But when you are good, you are very, very good…
The video was a nice touch…thanks.
Midnite,
I worked ER years ago. I can understand how it influenced your friend to quit drinking and driving.
Heather4life,
In “Whatever Happened to Baby Jane” there was a rivalry between the sisters. Joan Crawford was in a wheelchair. I barely remember the movie but it did have a weird ending. I understand there was a rivalry between these two actresses as well, they were both prima donnas and didn’t want to be upstaged by the other.
Joan Crawford was a major bitch. Did anyone see “Mommy Dearest”?
Yes Mary, I did read somewhere that these 2 women despised each other in real life. I think it made it easier for them to play their parts.
@ Midnite:
Oh. =/
midnite, I have always wanted to see it. I must find a place that rents out old movies.
Heather it comes on AMC all the time. And OMG, when you see the way she treated her children (adopted children no less), you will hate her and want to scream at the top of your lungs.
And I think Blockbuster might have it in stock
Okay, I will watch for it. Didn’t she beat her own children in real life? I think she did.
@ Everyone else:
Oh. =/ Well, I’ll guess we’ll see how well I cope with blood and people dying and stuff. Kind of nervous.
She didnt have any biological children. She adopted a total of three children and then proceeded to physically and mentally abuse them. HORRIBLE
The real irony was that these abused children were desperately wanted by Crawford. She had to pull some legal strings to get them since single parent adoptions were not considered acceptable back then. From the movie, I get the impression she had a personality disorder and the children were adopted to satisfy her own needs, which children will not do. Here I go with the psychoanalysis again! That’s my perspective, take it for what its worth. Anyway, just see the movie if you can, it is excellent but can be difficult to handle.
Hey everyone, I need some advice.
I am trying to write an invitation for some friends and family for a gathering to remember two people we lost last year. I’m not sure how to write it. This is what I have so far:
“Please join us in remembering Christopher and Gina Yeh on Sunday, August 12th, 2007.
We will visit them at Rose Hills Sunday at 4:30PM
before having a barbeque dinner at our home in Walnut.
Bring photos, stories, and memories so that we may
remember the two incredible people we have lost, and have a celebration of their lives.”
Stephanie, You will be okay. Those people are going to NEED you. Thank you Mary and Midnite.
nite nite all! The bed is calling my name.
*ahem*
Wow. Um…I hadn’t meant to cause such a disturbance by leaving and I’m kind of embarrassed about that.
I will accept Jasper’s apology, thank you Jasper for the apology, it is much appreciated. And I would like to apologize for being overly sensitive and apparently overreacting and making a big deal out of things, which I hadn’t meant to do.
I must say I am very shocked/surprised by some of the messages here and I have to say I’m very, very taken aback by everybody’s kindness. I would like to say thank you very, very much and that I truly do appreciate it.
That being said, I think I will still take a bit of a break from posting, to calm down a bit, you know? I am starting CBT/DBT therapy very soon and I hope to learn a better way to deal with criticism because I obviously don’t take it very well and I regret that I allow criticism to hurt me so.
So, I will still pop in from time to time to catch up on things and read, but I won’t be actively participating for a few weeks but eventually I will come back. So no worries. :)
So once again, I would like to thank everybody for their kindness, and I would also like to apologize for causing such a disturbance as it really wasn’t my intention. :-\
Stephanie,
Excellent. Beautifully written.
I missed the party … shoot. *shakes fist at sky* Stupid family life!
Rae,
I’m so glad I checked the blog before going to bed! I’m happy to hear you will return after all. Don’t be surprised at how highly we think of you. Why wouldn’t we think highly of you? Welcome back.
By the way, what is CBT/DBT therapy?
Jasper,
I almost forgot,
KABOOM, KABOOM, KABOOM, the sound of me running.
Whoooooosh! The sound of Jasper flying through the air. That’s the tacklehug I promised.
Rae,
Tacklehug to you too, like I promised, only I’ll walk gently, and you won’t fly through the air!
“I will accept Jasper’s apology, thank you Jasper for the apology, it is much appreciated”
thank-you Rae for accepting…now I can sleep tonight….I will take a different approach to debating. I’ve learned something from this….
Yay, Rae is staying! =)
As for the invitation thing…guess it’s all good. I’ll add directions and some photos and that should be that.
Thanks!
AAAHHH!!!!
I’m gone for just a few days and look what happens? uggg….
Rae – I understand you wanting to take a break, I’ve had to pull back a bit for a couple reasons. The first is because my children were forgetting who I was and the house was a mess along with a pile of laundry. The second was because I take things personally too and sometimes let my emotions get the best of me. It is difficult at times. But the friends I have made are priceless and worth every headache.
What I have done is pick one post and follow it for the day or days that it takes to die down. Then I will pick another post. This has really helped me keep up with the topics at hand, and also keep up with everyone here. It has helped me get my work done, write my book and still write on here. You should think about trying it.
You do know that MK and I will be harrassing you now that you have given us your e-mail address right? I have to know about the apartment when you move in!!!!!
;-)
*smooch*****
Awww…while I was out working for money today it looks like everyone learned something. We’re all people with feelings who truly believe what we say. Respecting each other, whether or not you can respect their opinions, is the first step to compromise. We’re all people. Everyone has feelings. I think that both sides kind of get that now.
Rae,
Glad you’re staying! Before you take a leave of absence, please read the recent posts on the Pearl S. Buck thread.
Looking forward to having you back!
If I had known that yesterday was going to be such an emotional roller coaster ride, I would have taken Dramamine.
Jasper,
Good boy. (Get out of the garbage!). That was very “manly” of you (drop it!) I love BOTH you and Rae and this was killing me…(Down, Jasper! Get Down!)
Just try to remember that these are A. Women (they are way different than men and feel words likes slaps) and B. Young. They haven’t been married to one of you guys for 30 years, and don’t have the option of refusing to make dinner, leaving the car on empty, or eating the last Twinkie to get back at you. Nor do they have the advantage of knowing that all men are idiots that we can’t live without…they still believe in Prince Charming and Happily Ever After. Let’s not burst their bubbles too soon. (Who left the gate open? Here Jasper, come!)
The ideas behind your words are excellent, and you have so much to offer this site, if you could only soften your approach. Sometimes you do have to stand at the top of the ladder and reach down to lend a hand up, but sometimes you have to go with the person, or let them go first. In a way this is a dance, and while you may lead, you can’t fling your partners across the dance floor. You might even say that what is needed here is “Grace”. The “grace” to gently, but firmly lead your partner in a seemingly effortless set of moves that brings them right where you want them, and the “grace” of God to do it with love and wisdom. You are an awesome man. There aren’t too many out there that are willing to speak up (on a regular basis) about something that is so controversial. You have enlisted in an army that has no captains, no rules, and no boundaries. And yet it is a war that must be fought. Thank you for joining. (I cannot believe you ate that hot dog right off of her plate.!)
I am so grateful that you reacted the way that you did and that all is well now. (Go lie down, you deserve it!)
I’ll leave the toilet seat up…you scrappy ole dog. And here’s a big bone and a *smooch*…
Rae,
You have just proven once again why it is so easy to love you. Forgiveness is a gift to yourself, the person who hurt you, and all the witnesses that watch the healing take place.
The man that ends up with you is going to be so blessed as you illustrate everything there is to know about being in a relationship. You’ll probably cringe at the thought, but I actually hope you end up with a man like Jasper. Fiercely protective, quick to apologize, sentimental, honest to a fault, and completely loyal to those he loves.
Girls, you have just witnessed two human beings at their worst, and best. Learn from this. It’s what loving someone is all about. Communication, forgiveness, and the willingness to forge ahead even when quitting would have been so easy. Believe it or not, because of and in spite of spats like this, Rae and Jaspers relationship has just deepened.
It’s a perfect illustration of what we keep trying to say. Take responsibility for your actions, go the extra mile, forgive, and remember that there are other people involved in every “choice” that you make. Choose wisely, and own up to your “choices”…love each other, from the smallest, to the weakest, to the biggest (pain in the a**)and the strongest…group hug. I think I just made myself sick…someone tell a joke!
I’m so glad you are staying Rae! See you when you get back.
@lil,
I was more than a little bugged by this fixation on physical beauty. The problem still remained for me because your posting-example just entrenches this more … it becomes now the martyr’s duty to love those poor wretches.
I think one way out of this trap is to take to heart the words of Isaiah when he describes ‘The Servant’: “Eyes have not seen, nor ears heard … so disfigured was his countenance that he did not look human … shield their eyes”. We have all seen those sickly, too pretty images of Jesus. These words draw me to ‘see’ that we are all called to a much deeper love …. a love where judgment has no place.
@ Rae & midnite,
I too am very happy you’ll both stick around! us old folks need much feisty yung-‘uns to give us life.
John,
I’m reminded of a comment from singer Stevie Wonder, who I attended elementary school with.
Stevie has been blind from birth and he was asked if he ever felt any bitterness or loss because of this. Stevie responded that his blindness was a gift from God. This way he judges people for what they really are, not how they look to him. One of the many reasons I have always admired Stevie.
I think that someone’s heart can be ugly. I know a lady who always makes fun of people. She never has anything nice to say about anyone. Though she is physically attractive, her attitude makes her an ugly person. The fact that this lady has that ugliness in her heart..[that she doesn’t mind sending innocent children to slaughter] makes her an ugly person.
I was just watching ‘A Baby Storey’ This lady had a 5 year old daughter. She had remarried, and then she discovered she had breast cancer. She and her husband decided that another child was not part of the plan. She began chemotherapy, and she said that she began to feel “different.” Of course she blamed this on the chemo. Now, here is a woman who could have aborted d/t health reasons. She chose not to, and she ended up giving birth to a healthy baby girl. I was so sad to see that she did die. Just something to think about.
I was just watching ‘A Baby Storey’ This lady found out she had breast cancer and was also pregnant! Now, here is a case where you could legitimately use “mother’s health” as a reason for abortion. She chose to carry to term, and she gave birth to a healthy baby girl. Sadly, she died 3 months later. Just something to think about.
oops, I didn’t know that my first post printed. I had to redo it. I left out some info in post 1.
Heather, there is a website called “http://www.pregnantwithcancer.org/”
There are so many women at this place, who have found out they had cancer at the time that they also found out they were pregnant…these women decided to keep their babies, and they group together to encourage each other during pregnancies. I found this site when my friend just recently found out she was pregnant, then a couple of months later, found out she also had Hodgkins Lymphomia. Her doctor offered to give her a “theraputic abortion”, because they don’t know yet what risks chemo does to the unborn child. My friend wouldn’t have it. She is pro-life. She chose to keep her baby, and now she is about 20 weeks along, and she had a 3-d Ultrasound which I saw just recently. Her little baby is doing GREAT! And she is healing, and so far doing very well…she even still has most of her hair! She has a friend that she met through “pregnancy with cancer”, and her friend had the same cancer that she did, while she was pregnant, and now has a little boy, about 1-2 years old. It is so good to see that this support system is there for women who find out about cancer while pregnant. Many don’t know where to turn. I think it is so sad that that woman you talked about did eventually succomb to the cancer months after the baby was botn….Her child will one day grow to appreciate the gift of life that her mother gave her before she died. What greater gift can one give than the gift of life?
There’s a book I read called “Like Always”. It’s about a woman who finds herself pregnant later in life and then discovers she has cancer. It was very good. I won’t give away the ending, but I encourage everyone to read it.
Bethany, how true. If I had cancer and found out I was pregnant, I would not have an abortion. I am serious! I would not do it. That lady’s courage and strength was beautiful. Her husband even arranged for a team of cosmetologists to come and give her a facial, haircut, foot massage,and a tummy rub. It was really awesome to watch.
Oh I just love it when pro-aborts quote the bible!
I think there was an episode of Grey’s Anatomy about a woman in this situation. I think she decided to keep her baby.
Score 1 for “liberal” Hollywood?
MK:
I m sorry to bust “your bubble”, but I am still very angry @ Disney for making me think there was a Prince Charming and that a “Happily Ever After” could happen to me. It is sad, but I dont really believe in that anymore. And I already threaten the boyfriend with, “Fine! I wont cook dinner fo you”. I was forced to grow up a very early age, and have been treated horrible by guys in my life.
Mary:
That is awesome that you went to school with stevie Wonder.
“Oh I just love it when pro-aborts quote the bible!”
Seriously? Or are you being condescending?
Midnite, There are good guys out there. I know that for sure. My husband and I have been married for almost 9 years, and I am even happier with him today, than I was 11 years ago when we began our relationship. I hope you won’t mind me saying this, but the things you have said on this blog about your boyfriend send red flags waving (experience), and I just wish I could help you see that he is treating you like crap and you don’t need that in your life. You need someone who really loves you for who you are. I don’t care if he apologizes later on for the way he neglects you and acts like he’s embarrassed by you in public, and I don’t care if he acts nice sometimes and you want to forgive him. He is not treating you like someone who loves you. If he really loves you, he will show it by his actions. He really will. Doesn’t matter if it’s public or private…it will be 100 percent obvious to EVERYONE, including YOU, that he loves you.
Midnite,
That is my one claim to fame. I have a vague memory of him performing on our school stage before he was famous. Stevie was in the class for the blind, our elementary school being one of the few schools in the city taking blind students. The blind students were kept strictly segregated, their own lunch table, classes, etc. This was just the way it was done, absolutely no mainstreaming. Thankfully, by the time I reached high school blind students were mainstreamed.
One more thing Midnite, please heed Bethany’s advise. Being that I’m considerably older than you both and have been around the block several more times because of it, I can assure you she’s right,and we don’t want you learning this the hard way. These are red flags, please respect them as such.
Mary that is so fascinating about you going to school with Stevie Wonder. Would you have ever imagined that he would have gone as far as he has? How was that performance that you witnessed? Do you remember it well?
I am sure it was a wonderful experience seeing him on TV as he developed as a musician!
I’d also say to always go with that “GUT” feeling! If it tells you that something is wrong, it usually IS. I’ve met lots guys who wanted to wine me and dine me [when I was single] Sometimes they would ask me for my phone#, and we would talk. I smelled a rat when they made excuses not to give me their numbers. I found out that quite a few of them were either married or they had girlfriends. I said; adios! It didn’t stop them from trying to take me to bed though.
Bethany,
I only remember seeing Stevie in the halls and in some classrooms. My memory of his being on stage is so vague. He may have sung or was getting ready too. He was two grades ahead of me and the school only went to the 6th grade. I remember as he started out as Little Stevie Wonder and I recognized who he was. I do remember that he swayed very profoundly, something I believe he still does, or at least did until early adulthood. His career certainly took off. He’s very talented and an extraordinary human being. By the way, I went to visit my elementary school a few years ago and the ladies asked me if I knew Stevie Wonder went to school there. Did I know!? I told them he was my one claim to fame.
Heather,
That reminds me of a story my brother, a former police officer told me. He pulled over a man who had just picked up a “friend” in the red light district. Oh, it was all perfectly innocent, the man insisted. Right. My brother asked him for his phone number and said “I’ll be calling this number in 20 minutes so you better be home”. The man took off like a bullet, minus his “friend”. My brother never called.
Midnite –
I agree with you that Disney gives alot of false hope. I refuse to buy my daughter anything with any “princess” etc. on them. She will know that there is a Mr. Right – but not a prince Charming. She will also know that “happily ever after” have some serious bumps in it! Have you ever seen the play “Into the Woods”? If you haven’t, rent it! The one with Bernadette Peters as the witch is the best one. They show the true colors of Prince Charming and the “happily ever after” is the end of Act 1. There are two Acts in it. (you may even enjoy the anatomically correct Big Bad Wolf! – AND if you look very closely, the man who plays one of the prince charmings also plays the big bad wolf)
Also – I dated many losers when I was in college. The very thought that I stooped so low makes me nauseaus now. I met my husband when I was 29 – after a 7 year hiatus on dating. We were married a little over a year later. (It would have been a year later, but I wanted a fall wedding) He travels for a living, as a matter of fact he is in Minnesota right now (We live in Indiana). Next week he will be in Chicago and the week after that he will be in Los Angeles. People always ask me if I ever think he may cheat on me when he is away. When I tell them no, some say I am being naive. I trust him. I know he will never do that. (It does help that I dated him and I know that he sucks at flirting and never knows when someone is flirting with him!) This is the type of feeling every woman should have with their Mr. Right. If you don’t have trust on the simple things, how can there be trust for the big ones?
That’s just my 2 cents.
That woman’s real face looks like WishMaster.
Mary, LOL! That’s a good one! Another way to find out is to ask them to take you to their home. I’ve heard some doozies as to why I could not come over. My mother’s friend is in her mid 70’s. In her heyday she looked identical to Elizabeth Taylor. Dead ringer! She told me that she used to do some modeling. She cracked me up one evening. I always did enjoy visiting with her, although I thought she was square and old fashioned when it came to men/sex. Here is the storey; She told me that she had gone out on a dinner date with a gentleman she’d met on the golf course. After dinner, she’d invited him into her home for coffee. She said that he put his hand on her knee while they were sitting on the couch having their coffee. “What about sex?” he asked. My mother’s friend replied, “What about it?” as she pushed his hand away. Needless to say, he was shown the door. She gave me great advice though. That old fashioned stuff still holds weight today. She said “Honey, don’t ever GIVE IT away!” “Otherwise, you are being used.”
Midnite and Valerie
If I might add my 2cents. There are a few ladies I still thank to this day for “stealing” a boyfriend. I just wish they’d “stolen” them a lot sooner. What took you so long???
I believe it was Rae or Lyssie who said one must kiss a lot of frogs before meeting a prince. It sounds like we’ve all done our time on the lilly pad.
Jacque, love that comparison!
“Seriously? Or are you being condescending?”
condescending, of course.
“condescending, of course.”
Well, at least you admit it. What makes you think that a pro-choicer would have inferior knowledge of the Bible? That just makes you look ignorant.
Eeee, Valerie, that was one of my favorite parts ever, when I played the witch in ItW. It’s gorgeous!
Rae, I’m behind on reading comments.
(My six-year-old grandson is visiting to attend our church’s VBS. I don’t know how I did this. I don’t know how you moms do.)
I just had a heart attack when I read in another post you were leaving. I am concerned Cameron has left and Less is gone, too. I miss them, and I would miss you terribly if you left. Please don’t.
Speaking to myself as well as other pro-lifers, we have to learn better how to post without making people go away. I admit it is hard to try to make people think, or bounce their words back at them, or point out inconsistencies, etc., without permanently alienating them. It’s a learning process. I’m sorry for my failures.
(One thing we can’t do is constantly ask pro-aborts, “Why do you post here?” which I read a lot. That is an open invitation for them to leave.)
The goal is not to win the debate but win friends and converts. This is a training ground. Not many sites support open dialogue between the two fronts. In fact, I’m not sure there are any others with so many commenters from both sides. We’re our own guinea pigs. Carry on with the experimentation, and again, Rae, please stay… :)
Antichoicers cannot resist melodramatics and sensational sentamentality. They cant be honest, they cant deal with the truth, so they hide behind an irrational emotional appeal. Then they wonder why they arent taken seriously.
I’m sorry, but I don’t which of the two pictures above is scarier…doesn’t that woman have any friends that would tell her, perhaps scarlet red lipstick isn’t the way to go…
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No one ever makes comments like that about men – no one tries to pretend that if a man is unattractive or old then somehow he doesnt have the same credibility as a young good looking man.
TesasRed,
You make an excellent point. There are any number of prominent men and male politicians who don’t make my heart flutter. When was the last time we heard any discussion on their need for hair plugs, face lifts, or fitness trainers? Men can look like pitbulls and its hardly an issue. With women, its a different standard all together. Let some older woman have a young boyfriend and its disgusting. Let some old codger have one or more pretty young girlfriends, one name in particular comes to mind, and its go gramps.
dan, Morbid motherf******? How much more morbid can you get than abortion? Ever see the video ‘The Choice Blues?’ Watch it, and then get back to me. WARNING…. Get your hurl bucket out.
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That anyone would be simple minded enough to buy into and be impressed by that propaganda is enough to make me nauseated.
dan, I would say that the PBA ban is progress.
Posted by: Heather4life at July 29, 2007 02:07 PM
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Why would you say that? Its not going to stop one single solitary abortion. They will just be performed by another method. And there are no restrictions on how a fetus can be removed in the event of fetal demise. The ACOG has stated in a public policy letter that while the D&X procedure is never the ONLY option it may be the BEST option so the only thing this ‘ban’ has done is preventing women from having the best medical care available to them. So how do you imagine the ban is ‘progress’ unless the real issue isnt the fetus but is making sure things are as difficult for the woman as possible?
How about this? If I have an abortion, I am really no better than the abuser. He’s a woman beater, and I’m a murderer.
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Since abortion is not murder thats one more profoundly stupid statement. Where do you get the egotistical delusion that youre in a position to sit in judgment of women about whom you know nothing, and have the right to decide they have to be ‘horrible people’ because you dont approve the decision they made? Just who made you such an authority on their lives?
Well, I was in an abusive relationship. I also discovered that I was pregnant. I left!
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And you fantasize that makes you better than a woman who leaves and has an abortion? Youre connected to this man for the rest of your life. This man now has a child, because of you, and if he chooses to fight about it he has every right to be a part of the childs life and therefore a part of YOUR life. If he was abusive to you then its likely he will be abusive to a child as well. Is that something to be proud of? Delivering a child into the hands of someone who will abuse it? He might even be able to get custody of the child, take it away from you, and have the chance to abuse that child every day of its life and there wouldnt be a thing you could do about it if you couldnt get the courts to listen. If a woman does NOT choose to take that route get over your smug self important self congratulatory delusion that she somehow isnt as ‘good’ as you are. She made a different choice and its possible her choice was smarter than yours.
As for murder being a legal term only, you better check your definition. Murder is both a legal term and a moral term. So when we say that abortion is murder, we mean of course in the moral sense that it is the premeditated killing of someone for morally unjustifiable reasons.
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Why dont you explain to us all who put you in charge of deciding that abortion is ‘morally unjustifiable’ for everyone else? That may be your opinion but why do you imagine your opinion should be more important than that of the woman pregnant?
dan, have you ever heard of a really good excuse for an abortion? I have yet to hear a woman say; “My life is in danger.” “If I don’t have an abortion, my doctor says I will die.” You would get my sympathy on that one. I have NEVER heard it.
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Where do you get the self centered fantasy that you some how are in a position to decide if some other womans reasons are ‘good enough’?
No one ever makes comments like that about men – no one tries to pretend that if a man is unattractive or old then somehow he doesnt have the same credibility as a young good looking man.
Oh sweetheart, I can promise you that if that was a picture of an old man wearing that shade of lipstick I’d have seriously questioned his credibility!
midnite, I have always wanted to see it. I must find a place that rents out old movies.
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Check out Netflix
Texas Red, get off of your power trip. I have yet to hear a good excuse for abortion.
Why dont you explain to us all who put you in charge of deciding that abortion is ‘morally unjustifiable’ for everyone else? That may be your opinion but why do you imagine your opinion should be more important than that of the woman pregnant?
Iva, the same way that I can decide it’s wrong for a man to rape a woman. The same way I can be in charge of deciding that rape is “morally unjustifiable” for everyone else. The same way I can think my opinion that rape is wrong is more important than that of horny or lustful men’s opinions on the matter.
Texas Red, get off of your power trip. I have yet to hear a good excuse for abortion.
Posted by: Heather4life at August 1, 2007 07:34 AM
Funny, but I have yet to read where you were appointed god this week.
Why dont you explain to us all who put you in charge of deciding that abortion is ‘morally unjustifiable’ for everyone else? That may be your opinion but why do you imagine your opinion should be more important than that of the woman pregnant?
Iva, the same way that I can decide it’s wrong for a man to rape a woman. The same way I can be in charge of deciding that rape is “morally unjustifiable” for everyone else. The same way I can think my opinion that rape is wrong is more important than that of horny or lustful men’s opinions on the matter.
Posted by: Bethany at August 1, 2007 08:31 AM
How fortunate you mentioned rape. Rape is a crime that is best described as one individual using the body of a sapient sentient adult without thier permission for the profit and advantage of the rapist. NO INDIVIDUAL HAS THAT RIGHT! IT’S ALSO CALLED SLAVERY! Yet you advocate an individual has the right to use the body of a woman for their profit and advantage without the permission of the woman? You think using a uterus is all a woman is worth?
Nunya, I have yet to hear a good excuse for abortion.
Texas Red, aka Iva, and probably Nunya, are you stalking me?
Texas Red, you are such a hypocrite! Who ever gave you the authority to tell me that a fetus isn’t a human being? You are laughable! Lady, please get your facts straight before you go on a rant!
How fortunate you mentioned rape. Rape is a crime that is best described as one individual using the body of a sapient sentient adult without thier permission for the profit and advantage of the rapist. NO INDIVIDUAL HAS THAT RIGHT! IT’S ALSO CALLED SLAVERY! Yet you advocate an individual has the right to use the body of a woman for their profit and advantage without the permission of the woman? You think using a uterus is all a woman is worth?
Everytime a woman has an abortion, she victimizes her already conceived baby, a complete human being, just as a man who rapes a women victimizes a complete human being. The only difference is the stage of development. A woman is worth a lot, so much so that I don’t give her extra priviliges that a man doesn’t get (see, I don’t consider her handicapped or weak- I think women are strong). A man doesn’t get to choose whether or not he wants to keep his baby, and if the woman decides she does, she can make him pay child support…how is this fair, if he wanted abortion, and he decided he didn’t want to be a father? Why is he a deadbeat, but a woman who chooses not to be a mother is just pro-choice?
If you are so concerned about the consciousness of the victim, then how do you feel about newborn babies being killed, since they are not fully conscious or self aware until about 18 months?
Why does the level of consciousness matter? And what exact level of consciousness does an unborn child have to have before you consider it human? 5 seconds before it emerges from the womb, is it okay to kill it? 5 seconds after, is it okay?
And by the way, since non- conscious human beings are non-humans, how would you feel about making all coma patients surrogate mothers for those who can’t have children and want one? Would there be anything wrong with anyone taking this liberty with coma patients who have virtually no chance of ever coming out of the coma, since they are no longer “persons”, according to your logic…and if so, why?
Texas Rant, Please go and watch ‘The Choice Blues’/ actual abortion in progress. Let me know what you think after that. Why do I see little hands and feet bones being extracted? It’s a human. Blood clots don’t have bones.
Texas are you REDy…. George Tiller’s abortion clinic is closed. He may be brought up on criminal charges. Now put that in your pipe , and smoke it!
Woohoo!!!! that is awesome!