Diss-functional dysfunctional dyksfunctional
I was perusing pro-abort blogs this morning for sport and came upon the following entry in Dyksfunctional, posted yesterday. The author says she’s a “Dyke Femme Mother of 1, 2, 3 Oooops 4 and 5.” Her kids range in age from 11 to 16; the youngest are twins. The author “came ‘Out’ almost 10yrs ago.”
Don’t go to this site unless you have an appreciation for the fine art of gutter language combined with punctuation overuse, all to hide MIA intelligence.
Here’s the relevant post….
OH! Must be a nationwide thingy w/the anti-abortion folks this past weekend. I’ve already read one person on my F-list that had a encounter w/them. We had our version up here in Juneau, Alaska. Driving down the road on Glacier Highway there is a parallel 4mile pedestrian/bike pathway.
There they were. About 100 or so anti-abortion protesters w/their signs.
ABORTION KILLS CHILDREN.
It freaked poor Darby out so badly, that it took a strawberry milk shake to snap her out of it.
Darby:::: “Abortion kills children????!!!????”
Me:::: Darby, these people are going for shock value. They are trying to make women feel bad, for lumps of blood in their uterus.
Darby:::: O!
Me:::: Yea. So just give them the finger and get it over with.
Darby:::: OH mama. That is just mean!
How about I just give them a mean look? That should count from a little kid.
[[[Darby giving them a mean look out the passenger side window]]]
Me:::: Good job Darby!! Hey girls, take Darby’s que and give them all a mean look.
[[[all four philistine girls giving the anti-abortion peeps a mean look]]]
Me:::: Great job girls.
I still think they should have given them the finger, but they are much more lady like then I am. They get that from east coast side of genetics.
It truly is disappointing how “white” they are sometimes.
Here is one of those signs “going for shock value” that “freaked poor Darby out so badly,” one of the author’s former “lumps of blood.”
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
The missrepresentation never ceases…
The picture you’ve provided is probably not what your nemisis blogger was considering “shock value”… Particularly since it appears to have been shot in Lincoln NE, and not Juneau AK.
I think it was probably something like the commonly brandished bloody fetuses that would be reasonably considered “shock value.”
Stop being such an oof, and at least put a little care into your fabrications.
The woman has her children pointing to heaven with their middle fingers, lies to them about what abortion is, and is a racist to boot. (Her children act too white?)
And yet she is upset that her little bloody lumps didn’t like the sign the mean people were holding?
So she buys her a milkshake?
Now there’s a woman up for “Mother of the Year” award…
Cameron,
And an oof is a what?
oops…
Oaf
Cameron,
ahhhhh.
mk
Cam, you would fit in nicely at the feminists blogs, but you would have to bump up your name calling.
Jill,
It’s too bad those kids have a mother like that. Yes, the pro-abort sites for some reason always have to use gutter language (I think it makes them feel tough).
Jasper,
I think they are short on ideas (Keep spouting off the same three over and over) and shorter on vocabulary.
I used to frequent comedy clubs and I always felt cheated by the comedians who told blue jokes. Anyone can say “dirty” words and get a laugh. There’s always someone in the group with a third grade mentality.
I think pro-choicers on the whole, are lazy. They don’t want to think, or form logical arguments, or cite their works.
When they throw something at me that I didn’t know I go read up on it. If their right, they’re right.
But they don’t do the same thing. They’d rather believe their lies. Live in denial. And not do the work it takes to get to the truth.
But it does make our job easier. Their lies are so transparent that disproving them is a snap!
mk
What a sad woman.
Cammie, her description was that of a Life Chain, which I don’t expect you to be knowledgeable of, but I do wish you’d give me the benefit of the doubt for knowing my topic. I heard several were held around the country this past weekend.
oddly enough I just came across this article
about a debate sponsored by ABC between atheists and Christians…
“We were delighted ABC gave us the opportunity to present our case,” said Comfort, “but we were taken aback by the aggressive nature of the debate. The audience was evenly divided between believers and atheists. The believers were very polite and quiet, while the atheists were extremely vocal. ‘Nasty’ is an appropriate word. We felt life a couple of goldfish in a pool of hungry Piranhas, and were getting a sense of what the early Christians must have felt in a Roman coliseum,” Christian Newswire reported Monday.
“The atheists made it very clear they didn’t like what we said,” Cameron said. “They were full of mockery and sarcasm, belittling the many great scientists and intellectuals who recognize the existence of a Supreme Being. But the average American isn’t viciously anti-God. In fact, polls show that more than 90 percent believe in His existence. Our hope is that the program will cause people to think deeply about the evidence presented, and challenge them to consider this most important issue of life.”
Well, at least we know they are consistent and it’s not just “us”.
Hmm, shock value. Those little signs they are holding are *not* shock value.
Now then, what drives around Birmingham is shock value. Pro-life trucks with (propoganda) pictures of “aborted fetuses”. They drive around my school campus. There are five difffernt elementary schools surrounding the UAB campus. Those images (which are not factual) *SHOULD NOT* be shown to elementary aged kids. It is horrid that some people stoop that low to get a message acorss.
Midnite,
I’m so glad to see you. You came on here and started an argument about Jeffry Dahmer and then just disappeared. Did I win?
MK
And Jasper, we are (gasp) *NOT* Pro-Abort, we are Pro-Choice. Please use the correct term when addressing us.
No, MK you did not win. Women who have abortions *do not* meet the criteria to have Antisocial Personality Disorder (APD). The APA does not consider them as such, and neither should you.
Some quotes for mothers day…
When you are a mother, you are never really alone in your thoughts. A mother always has to think twice, once for herself and once for her child. – Sophia Loren
The real religion of the world comes from women much more than from men – from mothers most of all, who carry the key of our souls in their bosoms. – Oliver Wendell Holmes
Every man for the sake of the great blessed Mother in Heaven, and for the love of his own little mother on earth, should handle all womankind gently, and hold them in all Honor. – Alfred Lord Tennyson
God could not be everywhere and therefore he made mothers. – Jewish Proverb
My mother was the most beautiful woman I ever saw… All I am I owe to my mother… I attribute all my success in life to the moral, intellectual and physical education I received from her. – George Washington
I feel that, in the heavens above, the angels, whispering to one another, can find, among their burning terms of love, none so devotional as that of mother. – Edgar Allan Poe
She had listened to nothing, but mothers hear certain things without listening. – Victor Hugo
My mother had a great deal of trouble with me but I think she enjoyed it. – Mark Twain
And I didnt disappear. I left work, went home, cokked dinner for my boyfriend, cleaned my house and then went to sleep. I do have a life outside of this propoganda website.
oops, cooked. My keyboard at work is acting up today for some odd reason.
Midnite,
Well, were back to square one…I never said they were psychopathic, I said they were behaving in a psychopathic manner…remember?
mk
Hmm, to behave in a psychopathic (which technicaly is not a word recognized by the APA) they would *have* to have APD, which I am sure, 99.99% of them dont. Once again, if you show me some *valid* research on this theory of yours, I will consider the validity of the argument you presented. Until then, your “theory” is not valid or worthy of discussion in my eyes.
Midnite,
I do have a life outside of this propoganda website.know it’s all propaganda?
Honestly MK, because when I am sitting at work, I am bored to death. So I play around on the web, if I dont have any homework. And I keep returning to *this* site to see if y’all have decided to side with reason and logic. And yet, my attmepts have failed, and thus I come to debate.
Midnite,
If I could prove it, it wouldn’t be a theory, now would it?
It was simply an observation. Women who have abortions, fully understanding what they entail, and yet feel no remorse, in my opinion, are exhibiting psychopathic behavior.
Primary psychopathy
On the MMPI-2 Restructured Clinical Scales (RC), primary psychopathy (as measured by the Psychopathic Personality Inventory, Factor 1) is negatively correlated with RC2 (low positive emotions), RC7 (dysfunctional negative emotions), RC4 (antisocial behavior), and RC9 (hypomanic activation). On the MMPI-2 Personality Psychopathology Five (PSY-5) scales, primary psychopathy was positively correlated with aggression (Specifically, grandiosity and interpersonal dominance, and instrumental aggression). and DISC(onstraint) (specifically, fearlessness) while being negatively correlated with NEGE (negative emotionality) and INTR(oversion).[31]
Newman et al. found measures of primary psychopathy to be negatively correlated with Gray’s behavioral inhibition system, a construct intended to measure behavioral inhibition from cues of punishment or nonreward.[32]
[edit] Secondary psychopathy
Secondary psychopaths show normal to above-normal physiological responses to (percieved) potential threats. Their crimes tend to be unplanned and impulsive with little thought of the consequences [23]. They have hot tempers and are prone to reactive aggression. They experience normal to above-normal levels of anxiety but are nevertheless highly stimulus seeking and have trouble tolerating boredom. Their lifestyle may lead to depression and even suicide.
For the secondary psychopath especially prominent are the Factor 2 (in the two-factor model) PCL-R items of impulsivity, weak behavioral controls, irresponsibility, lack of realistic long-term goals, proneness to boredom/need for stimulation, parasitic lifestyle, early behavioral problems, juvenile delinquency, and revocation of conditional release (breaking probation).
Sellbom and Ben-Porath (2005) found that secondary psychopathy (as measured by the Psychopathic Personality Inventory, Factor 2) shows opposite correlations to primary psychopathy in many cases. On the MMPI-2 RC, secondary psychopathy is positively correlated with RC4 (asb), RC7 (dne), and RC9 (hpm). It was also found to be correlated with the MMPI-2 PSY-5 scales of AGGR(ession) and DISC(onstraint).[31]
Newman et al. found measures of secondary psychopathy to be positively correlated with Gray’s behavioral activation system, a construct intended to measure sensitivity to cues of behavioral approach.[32]
[edit] Diagnostic Criteria, The PCL-R Test
Main article: Psychopathy Checklist-Revised (PCL-R)
The PCL-R has allowed for a differentiation of individuals with psychopathy and antisocial personality disorder (APD).
In contemporary research and clinical practice, psychopathy is most commonly assessed with the PCL-R (Hare, 1991), which is a clinical rating scale with 20 items. Each of the items in the PCL-R is scored on a three-point (0, 1, 2) scale according to two factors. PCL-R Factor 2 is associated with reactive anger, anxiety, increased risk of suicide, criminality, and impulsive violence. PCL-R Factor 1, in contrast, is associated with extroversion and positive affect. Factor 1, the so-called core personality traits of psychopathy, may even be beneficial for the psychopath (in terms of nondeviant social functioning). A psychopath will score high on both factors, whereas someone with APD will score high only on Factor 2.[33]
Both case history and a semi-structured interview are used in the analysis.
[edit] Psychopathy’s Relationship with other Mental Health Disorders
Psychopathy, as measured on the PCL-R, is negatively correlated with all DSM-IV Axis I disorders except substance abuse disorders. Psychopathy is most strongly correlated with DSM-IV antisocial personality disorder. PCL-R Factor 1 is correlated with narcissistic personality disorder and histrionic personality disorder. PCL-R Factor 2 is particularly strongly correlated to antisocial personality disorder and criminality.
PCL-R Factor 2 is associated with reactive anger, anxiety, increased risk of suicide, criminality, and impulsive violence. PCL-R Factor 1, in contrast, is associated with extroversion and positive affect.
The official stance of the American Psychiatric Association as presented in the DSM-IV-TR is that psychopathy and sociopathy are obsolete synonyms for antisocial personality disorder. The World Health Organization takes a similar stance in its ICD-10 by referring to psychopathy, sociopathy, antisocial personality, asocial personality, and amoral personality as synonyms for dissocial personality disorder.
Among laypersons and professionals, there is much confusion about the meanings and differences between psychopathy, sociopathy, antisocial personality disorder, and dissocial personality disorder.
sweetheart,
there is so much on the internet to prove that psychopathy is a legitimate disorder that I couldn’t print it all…
I sure hope you’re not studying to be a psychologist.
And for the record, psychology is considered a social science not a hard science…
I’m here for my own amusement…as you’ve noticed I don’t really comment much anymore, just pop in every once in a blue moon. It’s definitely an entertaining read. :)
Midnite,
Until then, your “theory” is not valid or worthy of discussion in my eyes.
And yet, my attmepts have failed, and thus I come to debate.
You’re gonna have to make up your mind.
Or do you only want to “debate” when it’s going your way?
Actually I am studying to be a Forensic Psychologist. And yes, I do know that is a social science, & not a hard science. I am not retarded.
And I am not going by info “googled” on the internet sweatheart, I am going by my “bible”, The DSM-IV. And Psychopathy is not recognized in the DSM-IV, and they’re not adding it to the DSM-V either (they’re adding another eating disorder, everything else stays the same) And if something is correlated, does not mean it “caused” it. If you know anyting about Psychology, you would know that.
correlation (n.) The simultaneous change in value of two numerically valued random variables: the positive correlation between cigarette smoking and the incidence of lung cancer; the negative correlation between age and normal vision.
No, I dont just debate “when it’s going my way either”. Although on the Dahmer debate, I do win and I am right. Sorry
Dykefunctional’s reply to my comment “”Clumps of blood”? At least be honest with your children.”
(Edited slightly for language)
Pro-choice is just that… women choosing to decide for themselves exactly what is best for their own bodies. Pro-choice isn’t about me deciding for other women.
Anti-abortion wank about babies, murder, selfishness, blah, blah, blah – is basically what I told my daughter: It’s patriarchal **conditioning** to try to control women. Whether said conditioning to control women is through scare tactics and/or oppressive laws it is what it is and there are no laws and/or campaigns to control men and their sperm.
Where are the signs… “SPERM ARE CHILDREN!” ??
Now get the f*ck out of my journal.
Heh. I have to say, Lauren, her response was a bit…well, bitchy and childish.
::headdesk::
Feminazis give feminists a bad rap…seriously…they need to go AWAY and learn to shut-up sometimes.
Yeah, this woman isn’t doing anyone any favors. Least of all her children.
The main characteristic of it is a complete and utter disregard for the rights of others and the rules of society. They seldom show anxiety and don’t feel guilt. Although many people would hope that there’s an effective treatment, there’s really no effective treatment for them other than locking them up in a secure facility with such rigid rules that they cannot talk their way out. A full list of APD traits would include:
List of Antisocial Personality Disorder Traits
Sense of entitlement; Unremorseful; Apathetic to others; Unconscionable behavior; Blameful of others; Manipulative and conning; Affectively cold; Disparate understanding; Socially irresponsible; Disregardful of obligations; Nonconforming to norms; Irresponsible
whereas the DSM-IV “clinical” features of Antisocial Personality Disorder (with a person having at least three of these characteristics) are:
Clinical Symptoms for an Antisocial Personality Disorder Diagnosis
1. Failure to conform to social norms; 2. Deceitfulness, manipulativeness; 3. Impulsivity, failure to plan ahead; 4. Irritability, aggressiveness; 5. Reckless disregard for the safety of self or others; 6. Consistent irresponsibility; 7. Lack of remorse after having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another person
Sociopathy is chiefly characterized by something wrong with the person’s conscience. They either don’t have one, it’s full of holes like Swiss cheese, or they are somehow able to completely neutralize or negate any sense of conscience or future time perspective. Sociopaths only care about fulfilling their own needs and desires – selfishness and egocentricity to the extreme. Everything and everybody else is mentally twisted around in their minds as objects to be used in fulfilling their own needs and desires. They often believe they are doing something good for society, or at least nothing that bad. The term “sociopath” is frequently used by psychologists and sociologists alike in referring to persons whose unsocialized character is due primarily to parental failures (usually fatherlessness) rather than an inherent feature of temperament. Lykken (1995), for example, clearly distinguishes between the sociopath (who is socialized into becoming a psychopath) and a “true” psychopath (who is born that way). However, this may only describe the “common sociopath”, as there are at least four (4) different subtypes — common, alienated, aggressive, and dyssocial. Commons are characterized mostly by their lack of conscience; the alienated by their inability to love or be loved; aggressives by a consistent sadistic streak; and dyssocials by an ability to abide by gang rules, as long as those rules are the wrong rules. As Stout (2005) indicates, it only takes three of the following to be defined as a sociopath, and some common sociopathic traits include:
List of Common Sociopathic Traits
Egocentricity; Callousness; Impulsivity; Conscience defect; Exaggerated sexuality; Excessive boasting; Risk taking; Inability to resist temptation; Antagonistic, deprecating attitude toward the opposite sex; Lack of interest in bonding with a mate
Psychopathy is a concept subject to much debate, but is usually defined as a constellation of affective, interpersonal, and behavioral characteristics including egocentricity; impulsivity; irresponsibility; shallow emotions; lack of empathy, guilt, or remorse; pathological lying; manipulativeness; and the persistent violation of social norms and expectations (Cleckley 1976; Hare 1993). The crimes of psychopaths are usually stone-cold, remorseless killings for no apparent reason. They cold-bloodedly take what they want and do as they please without the slightest sense of guilt or regret. In many ways, they are natural-born intraspecies predators who satisfy their lust for power and control by charm, manipulation, intimidation, and violence. While almost all societies would regard them as criminals (the exception being frontier or warlike societies where they might become heroes, patriots, or leaders), it’s important to distinguish their behavior from criminal behavior. As a common axiom goes in psychology, MOST PSYCHOPATHS ARE ANTISOCIAL PERSONALITIES BUT NOT ALL ANTISOCIAL PERSONALITIES ARE PSYCHOPATHS. This is because APD is defined mainly by behaviors (Factor 2 antisocial behaviors) and doesn’t tap the affective/interpersonal dimensions (Factor 1 core psychopathic features, narcissism) of psychopathy. Further, criminals and APDs tend to “age out” of crime; psychopaths do not, and are at high risk of recidivism. Psychopaths love to intellectualize in treatment with their half-baked understanding of rules. Like the Star Trek character, Spock, their reasoning cannot handle any mix of cognition and emotion. They are calculating predators who, when trapped, will attempt escape, create a nuisance and danger to staff, be a disruptive influence on other patients or inmates, and fake symptoms to get transferred, bouncing back and forth between institutions. The common features of psychopathic traits (the PCL-R items) are:
List of Common Psychopathic Traits
Glib and superficial charm; Grandiose sense of self-worth; Need for stimulation; Pathological lying; Conning and manipulativeness; Lack of remorse or guilt; Shallow affect; Callousness and lack of empathy; Parasitic lifestyle; Poor behavioral controls; Promiscuous sexual behavior; Early behavior problems; Lack of realistic, long-term goals; Impulsivity; Irresponsibility; Failure to accept responsibility for own actions; Many short-term marital relationships; Juvenile delinquency; Revocation of conditional release; Criminal versatility
In addition to these most well-known types, there have been criminologists who have put forward additional constructs. They are only mentioned here because of their relevance to serial criminals, and the interesting similarity in the way they compare to the FBI’s “disorganized – organized” typology.
So what is a sociopath? You won’t find criteria in the DSM IV or official psychiatric nomenclature, but the construct refers to the largest subgroup of APDs. Most are males, but an increasing number are female. They have otherwise normal temperaments (as opposed to psychopaths who have abnormal temperaments). Some are aggressive, fearless sensation seekers, and others are Machiavellian manipulators. A Machiavellian is a personality type who is a cross between an antisocial personality and a narcissist, and someone who also has an extremely high sense of entitlement. The one thing that all sociopaths have in common is that they are “too much” to handle for their parents or anyone else. It’s common to refer to them as unsocialized, but the dyssocial sociopath does socialize to the mores and values of a dyssocial outgroup, like a gang. Let’s explore the four (4) subtypes of sociopaths:
COMMON SOCIOPATHS are the largest subtype and have a weak or unelaborated conscience. They are not ashamed by the same things as you or I would be ashamed of. They are like feral children grown up, taking pleasures and gratifying impulses at every opportunity or temptation. They especially enjoy and take pride in bending or breaking the rules. As teenagers, they are often runaways. As adults, they are often geographically mobile, living in shelters, or taking advantage of welfare systems. They are experienced shoplifters. They have quite active sex lives. They are usually of average intelligence, but don’t do well in school and never seem to break out of low-paying dead-end jobs. Nevertheless, they seem genuinely happy with their lives, unburdened by any sense of negative self-worth or the fact that they have not been a functional, contributing member of society.
sweetheart,
there is so much on the internet to prove that psychopathy is a legitimate disorder that I couldn’t print it all…
There is so much wrong with that sentence. “Information on the internet,” for starters; try using a book.
Second, that the word “prove” being a legitimate scientific term… there is no “prove” in science. Only consistent results to a theory.
And thirdly that psychopathy is some sort of concrete disease like the mumps. Psychopathy is a symptom, not a disorder unto itself. Therefore if you do something psychopathic, there’s something else going on.
Besides, your whole argument from the DSM is faulty. It’s based on a sterotype of women who get abortions, and you omitted information to make it sound better. And it seems that you are now refuting legitimate information from the DSM that you BASED your entire ‘theory’ on… you’re not making any sense.
And please, refrain from using affable terms like “sweetheart” to people like that. It’s demeaning and doesn’t help your argument at all.
PRINTED RESOURCES
Black, D. & Larson, L. (2000). Bad Boys, Bad Men: Confronting Antisocial Personality Disorder. NY: Oxford Univ. Press.
Cleckley, Hervey (1903-1984). The Mask of Sanity, Fifth Edition, 1988. Previous editions copyrighted 1941, 1950, 1955, 1964, 1976 by St. Louis: Mosby Co.
Fishbein, D. (2000). (ed.) The Science, Treatment, and Prevention of Antisocial Behaviors. Kingston, NJ: Civic Research Institute.
Giannangelo, S. (1996). The Psychopathology of Serial Murder. Westport: Praeger.
Hare, R. (1991). The Hare Psychopathy Checklist-Revised. Toronto: Multi-Health Systems.
Hare, R. (1996). Psychopathy: A clinical construct whose time has come. Criminal Justice and Behavior 23:25-54.
Hare, R. (1999). Without Conscience: The Disturbing World of the Psychopaths among us. NY: Guilford Press.
Jenkins, R. (1960). The psychopath or antisocial personality. Journal of Nervous and Mental Disease 131:318-34.
Lykken, D. (1995) The Antisocial Personalities. Hillsdale: Erlbaum.
McCord W. & J. (1964). The Psychopath: An Essay on the Criminal Mind. Princeton: Van Nostrand.
Meloy, J. Reid. (1995). The Psychopathic Mind: Origins, Dynamics, and Treatment. NY: Jason Aronson.
Millon, T., E. Simonsen, M. Birket-Smith & R. Davis. (1998). Psychopathy: Antisocial, Criminal, and Violent Behavior. NY: Guilford Press.
Owen, D. (2004). Criminal Minds: The Science and Psychology of Profiling. NY: Barnes & Noble Books.
Petherick, W. (2005). The Science of Criminal Profiling. NY: Barnes & Noble Books.
Robins, L. (1978). Aetiological implications in studies of childhood histories relating to antisocial personality. In R. Hare & D. Schalling (eds) Psychopathic Behavior. Chichester: Wiley.
Reid, W., Walker, J., & Dorr, D. (Eds.) (1986). Unmasking the Psychopath: Antisocial Personality and Related Syndromes. NY: Norton.
Rogers, R., R. Salekin, K. Sewell & K. Cruise. (2000). Prototypical analysis of antisocial personality disorder. Criminal Justice and Behavior 27(2) 234-55.
Samenow, S. (2002). Straight Talk about Criminals: Understanding and Treating Antisocial Behavior. NY: Jason Aronson.
Samenow, S. (2004). Inside the Criminal Mind. NY: Random House.
Sher, K. & Trull, T. (1994). Personality and disinhibitory psychopathology: Alcoholism and antisocial personality disorder. Journal of Abnormal Psychology 103:92-102.
Stout, M. (2005). The Sociopath Next Door. NY: Broadway.
Toch, H. & K. Adams. (1994). The Disturbed Violent Offender. Washington: APA.
Wolman, B. (1999). Antisocial Behavior: Personality Disorders from Hostility to Homicide. NY: Prometheus Books.
Do you want more?
DSM-IV p. 704
Prevalence
The overall prevalance of APD in community samples if about 3% in males and about 1% in females.
Midnite,
By the way, if your recognize any of the following in yourself, let me know…I can probably recommend someone to talk to…
1. GLIB and SUPERFICIAL CHARM — the tendency to be smooth, engaging, charming, slick, and verbally facile. Psychopathic charm is not in the least shy, self-conscious, or afraid to say anything. A psychopath never gets tongue-tied. They have freed themselves from the social conventions about taking turns in talking, for example.
2. GRANDIOSE SELF-WORTH — a grossly inflated view of one’s abilities and self-worth, self-assured, opinionated, cocky, a braggart. Psychopaths are arrogant people who believe they are superior human beings.
3. NEED FOR STIMULATION or PRONENESS TO BOREDOM — an excessive need for novel, thrilling, and exciting stimulation; taking chances and doing things that are risky. Psychopaths often have a low self-discipline in carrying tasks through to completion because they get bored easily. They fail to work at the same job for any length of time, for example, or to finish tasks that they consider dull or routine.
4. PATHOLOGICAL LYING — can be moderate or high; in moderate form, they will be shrewd, crafty, cunning, sly, and clever; in extreme form, they will be deceptive, deceitful, underhanded, unscrupulous, manipulative, and dishonest.
5. CONNING AND MANIPULATIVENESS- the use of deceit and deception to cheat, con, or defraud others for personal gain; distinguished from Item #4 in the degree to which exploitation and callous ruthlessness is present, as reflected in a lack of concern for the feelings and suffering of one’s victims.
6. LACK OF REMORSE OR GUILT — a lack of feelings or concern for the losses, pain, and suffering of victims; a tendency to be unconcerned, dispassionate, coldhearted, and unempathic. This item is usually demonstrated by a disdain for one’s victims.
7. SHALLOW AFFECT — emotional poverty or a limited range or depth of feelings; interpersonal coldness in spite of signs of open gregariousness.
8. CALLOUSNESS and LACK OF EMPATHY — a lack of feelings toward people in general; cold, contemptuous, inconsiderate, and tactless.
9. PARASITIC LIFESTYLE — an intentional, manipulative, selfish, and exploitative financial dependence on others as reflected in a lack of motivation, low self-discipline, and inability to begin or complete responsibilities.
10. POOR BEHAVIORAL CONTROLS — expressions of irritability, annoyance, impatience, threats, aggression, and verbal abuse; inadequate control of anger and temper; acting hastily.
11. PROMISCUOUS SEXUAL BEHAVIOR — a variety of brief, superficial relations, numerous affairs, and an indiscriminate selection of sexual partners; the maintenance of several relationships at the same time; a history of attempts to sexually coerce others into sexual activity or taking great pride at discussing sexual exploits or conquests.
12. EARLY BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS — a variety of behaviors prior to age 13, including lying, theft, cheating, vandalism, bullying, sexual activity, fire-setting, glue-sniffing, alcohol use, and running away from home.
13. LACK OF REALISTIC, LONG-TERM GOALS — an inability or persistent failure to develop and execute long-term plans and goals; a nomadic existence, aimless, lacking direction in life.
14. IMPULSIVITY — the occurrence of behaviors that are unpremeditated and lack reflection or planning; inability to resist temptation, frustrations, and urges; a lack of deliberation without considering the consequences; foolhardy, rash, unpredictable, erratic, and reckless.
15. IRRESPONSIBILITY — repeated failure to fulfill or honor obligations and commitments; such as not paying bills, defaulting on loans, performing sloppy work, being absent or late to work, failing to honor contractual agreements.
16. FAILURE TO ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR OWN ACTIONS — a failure to accept responsibility for one’s actions reflected in low conscientiousness, an absence of dutifulness, antagonistic manipulation, denial of responsibility, and an effort to manipulate others through this denial.
17. MANY SHORT-TERM MARITAL RELATIONSHIPS — a lack of commitment to a long-term relationship reflected in inconsistent, undependable, and unreliable commitments in life, including marital.
18. JUVENILE DELINQUENCY — behavior problems between the ages of 13-18; mostly behaviors that are crimes or clearly involve aspects of antagonism, exploitation, aggression, manipulation, or a callous, ruthless tough-mindedness.
19. REVOCATION OF CONDITION RELEASE — a revocation of probation or other conditional release due to technical violations, such as carelessness, low deliberation, or failing to appear.
20. CRIMINAL VERSATILITY — a diversity of types of criminal offenses, regardless if the person has been arrested or convicted for them; taking great pride at getting away with crimes.
Wow…just wow. Here are some more responses to my quote:
From Dykefuncionals girlfriend:
Go back to sucking that patriarchal c*ck you’ve been condition to retard! When you wake up and smell the misogyny get back to us!
From another friend of Dykefunctional:
So then…technically, everytime someone jacks off in your mouth, you are killing children…correct? You are seriously in the wrong place to preach honey.
I’d write back, but the site owner told me not to and I respect her wishes. I just can’t believe how violent these people get when you point out their lies.
@MK: To me, most of those books and papers look as though they are looking at psychopathy as a symptom of various mental afflictions (be it psychological or physical, as some physical brain abnormalities do cause psychopathic behavior) rather than looking at it as a disease in and of itself.
I’ve taken a few psychology classes in college and I am by no means an expert, but I distinctly recall my professor saying that psychopathy/sociopath-like behaviors are just that…behaviors that are caused by different disorder, they are not a disorder in and of themselves.
*shrugs*
Then again, unnecessary personal attacks usually = lost argument. Maybe MK just doesn’t have anything better to say to prove her completely illegitimate point.
Rae,
Exactly. I’m not the one who called these women psychopaths. I said, over and over mind you, that they were exhibiting psychopathic “behavior”
But our friend midnite can’t seem to comprehend that and is all off about proving it’s not an actual disease. I never said it was. She did. or didn’t. however you want to look at it.
She’s wasting her time because she is trying to disprove something I never said.
I think she just can’t stand to be wrong and will go to any lengths to prove she’s not, if even she doesn’t get what she is arguing about.
But I don’t really know her. Like I said, with her lack of empathy and simple human civility I can only hope that she is not thinking of being a psychologist. Or anything else that involves compassion.
mk
Now Dykefunctional’s girlfriend is launching an attak me. Wow. http://dirtywhiteboi.livejournal.com/222943.html
Rae,
Or perhaps she is going to work with “criminal minds” because she can relate to them?
attak= attack! blarg.
“Human civility”
Coming from the girl who just suggested that midnite was psychopathic. Nice.
And you don’t seem to understand that psychopathic behavior = psychopathy. Psychopathy isn’t a disorder, it’s a symptom.
But it doesn’t matter, you continue to contradict yourself and be hypocritical. This is a waste of time.
@Lauren: I suggest you ignore them, let them go off on their own crazy tangents, they aren’t worth your time, and although I consider myself a liberal feminist, I am deeply upset with the way they are being so disrespectful. :(
And Rae you are correct (I have over 30 hours in Psych classes) Psychopathy & Sociopath behaviors are *BEHAVIORS* of another disorder. They are *NOT* a disorder by themselves.
LOL people who work with criminals = criminals themselves. Nice… it seems that MK has a hard time relating to people who aren’t like her. How anti-social…
Lauren,
Aren’t they fun…just when you thought all the nasty pro-aborts were here on Jill’s site you discover there’s no end…
As the Wicked Witch in the Wizard of Oz says:
“WHAT A WORLD, WHAT A WORLD…”
Thank’s Rae. I know that I should ignore them, and I will, it’s just so bizzare to see the thought processes of some people.
Point out factual inaccuracy -> tool of the patriarchy. Huh?
BTW, I don’t think I’ve seen ANY pro-choicers on this site that even come close to these people.
“Or perhaps she is going to work with “criminal minds” because she can relate to them?”
Um, I’ll have to say that’s not a very fair remark. I was going to study forensic psychology for awhile because the disorders and personality patterns of criminals is interesting to me. However, once I learned it wasn’t like CSI or Law and Order I scrapped that. :-p
Once again MK, we are *NOT* Pro-Abort, we *ARE* Pro-Choice, for someone who thinks she knows so much, you sure do use fictional titeles alot.
Yep,
And you don’t seem to understand that psychopathic behavior = psychopathy. Psychopathy isn’t a disorder, it’s a symptom.
And you don’t seem to understand that you can’t have it both ways.
It’s a symptom. It’s a behavior.
I said that women who have abortions and feel no guilt are exhibiting a behavior. A symptom.
The symptom points to APD. Which I do not say that they have.
Talk about a waste of time.
Do you even read before you post?
And I didn’t say that midnite had a personality disorder, I asked if her she recognized any symptoms in herself. Then I offered her help.
Once again MK, we are *NOT* Pro-Abort, we *ARE* Pro-Choice, for someone who thinks she knows so much, you sure do use fictional titeles alot.
And I used the phrase “pro-abort” where?
And hey, you say you’re not pro aborts?
Prove it.
Lauren,
Aren’t they fun…just when you thought all the nasty pro-aborts were here on Jill’s site you discover there’s no end…
As the Wicked Witch in the Wizard of Oz says:
“WHAT A WORLD, WHAT A WORLD…”
Posted by: MK at May 8, 2007 01:18 PM
RIGHT THERE
oops, sorry for the double post.
Now then MK, I am pro-choice. I would NEVER have an abortion UNLESS I wasa raped. If my boyfriend got me pregnant, I would keep the child. Now then, I have *NO RIGHT* to tell you or any woman for that matter what is right for her and her body. Nor will I judge that woman for making the best decision for her. If she thinks an abortion is the best solution to her problems, I’ll support her; If she thinks haveing the baby is best option, I’ll support that too. I support *Her choice*.
MK: There are many people who have short fuses…having a temper does NOT mean somebody has antisocial personality disorder…otherwise my parents should both be locked up for their tempers.
ahhhhhhh…but you see, I was referring to the women that are attacking Lauren.
Can you “prove” that you are not a pro abort?
Oh MK, nice Try, I am very calm sitting at my desk at work.
10. POOR BEHAVIORAL CONTROLS — expressions of irritability, annoyance, impatience, threats, aggression, and verbal abuse; inadequate control of anger and temper; acting hastily
I am not irritable, annoyed, impatient nor have I threatened you or showed any acting hastily. If you look up a tad bit, I wrote earlier that my keyboard at work has been acting up today. And I used to caps not to “scream at you”, but to make sure you got my point.
TRY AGAIN
Do you really think I would throw “a tantrum” @ work, and possibly lose my job? I think not.
Rae,
I realize that you could infer that I am talking about all pro-choicers, but I am not. I just find that midnite is rather crass. I stated an opinion, and she asked me to prove it. Of course I can’t because it is simply my opinion. No more than she can prove why pro choice is right. It is her opinion.
I just find it odd that she is getting sooooo angry.
Perhaps that was a cheap shot, insinuating that she too had a personality disorder, but after listening to her these last few months, I am inclined to think that her conscience is not properly functioning. She claims to want debate but what she I think she really wants is to shine.
Unfortunately I believe that she is somewhat tarnished and rather than shining she can come off as somewhat of a shrew.
I certainly do not put you in the same category.
If midnite can prove me wrong and by her words and actions show me that she has a conscience I will gladly eat my words sans A-1 sauce, and apologize.
Until then, I won’t back down.
You I like. You may not care that I do. But I do. So please don’t take what I am saying about her and think I mean it about you.
Of course a short temper is not an automatic indication of a personality disorder. But being so easily provoked, and getting angry out of proportion to the provocation is rather telling.
mk
Now then MK, I am pro-choice. I would NEVER have an abortion UNLESS I was raped. If my boyfriend got me pregnant, I would keep the child. Now then, I have *NO RIGHT* to tell you or any woman for that matter what is right for her and her body. Nor will I judge that woman for making the best decision for her. If she thinks an abortion is the best solution to her problems, I’ll support her; If she thinks haveing the baby is best option, I’ll support that too. I support *Her choice*.
_________________________
That right there proves I am not pro-abort, it proves that I am pro-choice.
Midnite,
That “proves” nothing. It simply explains your position. It is your opinion. Which I respect.
However, it is my opinion that women who have abortions for frivolous reasons and feel no remorse are exhibiting a psychopathic behavior. I cannot prove it any more than you can prove you are not a “pro-abort” because it is my opinion
You can pull out your psych books all you want.
It is and remains an opinion and as such can neither be proved or disproved.
If I hurt your feelings, I am sorry. I may have crossed a line there. No excuses. It was bad, bad, bad on my part.
Mea Culpa.
mk
Jill said (lying)…
“Here is one of those signs “going for shock value” that “freaked poor Darby out so badly,” one of the author’s former “lumps of blood.”
See image.
The image was shot in Lincoln Nebraska, and is in fact, not from Juneau AK. i.e. it is NOT “one of those signs that freaked poor Darby out so badly.”
Jill did not say … “example of Life Chain,” and clearly intended to infer that Darby was shocked by a benign sign like the one presented in the Lincoln NE image. I think we all reasonably know Darby is shocked by a grotesque image of an aborted fetus… and not a sign as benign as the one depicted here.
I think people tend to get emotional if you accuse them of having Anti-social personality disorder, a disorder which is common amongst serial killers and those who have no empathy for other human beings.
And then there are those who tend to get emotional when 45 million innocent babies are slaughtered and the right to do so is protected by people who get upset when you point out that their behavior and lack of conscience resembles said serial killers…
But we don’t resort to name calling…
And when we make a mistake we apologize, we don’t blame it on our typewriters…
Lauren,MK,
They are nasty, immature people. I kind of feel sorry for them. Plus, they don’t have any class. Most of these people are filled with hate.
have to back to work now….
The only reason to “make note” of anti-social behaviors is if they are a consistent aspect of personality. If you say that women who have abortions are exhibiting anti-social behaviors, you have to have some sort of reason for insinuating this. Unless those are consistent aspects of their personality, there is no reason for the “theory” of women getting abortions exhibiting antisocial behaviors. Because, the only reason to take note of an antisocial behavior or consider it problematic is if it is a consistent manifestation in said person. If the behavior and other anti-social behaviors are consistent manifestations, than that person would be classified as having Anti-Social Personality Disorder, and would be in need of treatment. Considering the fact that in the general population, Anti-Social personality disorder probably occurs about less than 3% in males and less than 1% in females, it wouldn’t make sense to say that women obtaining abortions are consistently exhibiting anti-social behaviors in other aspects of their lives, because one third of all women will have gotten an abortion by the age of 45. If 33% of women get abortions, and less than 1% of all women are classified as having Anti-Social Personality Disorder, what are you attempting to posit by “noting” that a woman getting an abortion is participating in what you classify as an anti-social behavior?
Jasper,
Thank you.
mk
You really think I dont have conscience? Hmm, that’s your own problem and not mine. When my best friend had an abortion, I went to the clinic with her and held her hand. When she cried about her decision (that was forced upon her by her mother) I sat there and cried with her. When my other best friend found out she was pregnant, I was in the hospital when her daughter was born. I am her godmother. MY goddaughter loves when I come play with her. Now then with that said, nothing I say to you is going to *prove* to you I have conscience or empathy b/c you dont *really* know me. And that, is a shame, b/c I am a great person (everyone tells me so. no I am not being vein either)
Now kids, just because I link to the blog of a foul-mouthed liberal does not give liberals on this blog license to become foul-mouthed. Many posts are being deleted for swearing. Your post might have been fine except for one word. Too bad. Learn to speak persuasively and maturely sans the gutter language.
And Jasper, I am not filled with hate. I am sorry if it bothers me a little when a woman, who has never met me, just assumes I have a personality disorder. Not to mention, when I called her on it, she lied and said she didnt say that. But when another Pro-Lifer asks her she tells the truth and says she did assume I had one.
Cameron, 1:50p, said: “The image was shot in Lincoln Nebraska, and is in fact, not from Juneau AK. i.e. it is NOT ‘one of those signs that freaked poor Darby out so badly.’ Jill did not say … ‘example of Life Chain,’ and clearly intended to infer that Darby was shocked by a benign sign like the one presented in the Lincoln NE image. I think we all reasonably know Darby is shocked by a grotesque image of an aborted fetus… and not a sign as benign as the one depicted here.”
Cameron, I do pickets, both graphic and nongraphic. Ask the lesbian who made the post. My photo example is what her daughter saw. She never mentioned graphic images. Life Chains do not use graphic images. They allow only certain signs, the hallmark being, “Abortion kills children.”
Some of this stuff that’s going on just feels a little silly to me. Someone gets angry and says something inappropriate, and then they are directed to a symptom of a very rare and serious psychological disorder, with the implication being that they might have that disorder? This isn’t a 100 level psych course where you go around anxiously diagnosing your friends as bipolar because they had a mood swing, or as bulimic because they had a stomach virus. Diagnosing psychological disorders is a serious business, and not something that can reasonably be done by random people reading symptoms out of the DSM-IV. Accusing anyone who might exhibit a symptom of a serious disorder from one instance is absurd. Getting angry at someone doesn’t mean you have APD, having a mood swing doesn’t mean you are bipolar, making a rash decision doesn’t mean you have APD, making a few selfish decisions doesn’t mean you have APD, forgetting your keys doesn’t mean you have Alzheimer’s. Stop being overdramatic, and stop acting like you are a trained psychologist with years of experience in the field.
Lynn,
If you consider that anti-social personality disorder is defined as a person exhibiting no guilt, or having no conscience and all their anti social behaviors stem from this, then I feel I am perfectly within my rights to point out that abortion and people who, without guilt, support it, are exhibiting an anti social trait.
I have not diagnosed anybody.
If somebody showed musical talent, I could rightly say that they showed some promise in the field of music, but I would not call them a musician.
They have one trait, musical talent, that indicates they would make a good musician.
People who support abortion on demand and have them for frivolous reasons, exhibit a single trait that is part of the criteria for anti-social personality disorder. This does not make them psychopathic, but it does indicate that given the right circumstances, it is a good indication that they have the propensity to be one.
And, to echo Rae, as a liberal feminist I think that these women’s reactions are A) absurd, B) hateful, C) accomplishing nothing for their side, and D) did I say absurd? A person can be against the influence of patriarchal society, but accusing others of s*cking the c*ck of the patriarchy? That’s the most absurd, ridiculous, and offensive thing I’ve ever heard.
Lynn, Midnite, Rae, and Yep,
I will say this one last time. V-e-r-y S-l-o-w-l-y…
I did not, have not, am not and will not diagnose anyone of anything.
I did not, have not, am not and will not accuse women who have abortions of being anti social.
Is that simple enough for you?
MK: “People who support abortion on demand and have them for frivolous reasons, exhibit a single trait that is part of the criteria for anti-social personality disorder. This does not make them psychopathic, but it does indicate that given the right circumstances, it is a good indication that they have the propensity to be one.”
The point is this: These women clearly can not all have APD. It is statistically impossible. And people don’t “develop” APD, they have APD. It’s not something that occurs over time. These women don’t have the “propensity” to be women with anti-social personality disorder by any means. And by looking at a few symptoms of APD, and then saying that they are displaying traits from APD (which many could likely argue against) and implying that because of this instance they might be capable of developing a disorder that you can’t develop is absurd. Given the right circumstances, 60% of people will shock someone to death at the behest of a man in a lab coat, that doesn’t mean that 60% of people have APD, because they didn’t heed emotional cries from the victim. Women who obtain abortions are not like people with APD, plain and simple. And women who obtain abortions will not develop APD under ANY circumstances, unless they are in the less than 1% of the female population who have APD.
You are insinuating that they can develop APD (which isn’t possible). If you will concede on that point, that women obtaining abortions cannot develop APD under any circumstances, unless they already have APD, than I’ll be content.
60% of people will shock someone to death at the behest of a man in a lab coat, that doesn’t mean that 60% of people have APD, because they didn’t heed emotional cries from the victim. Women who obtain abortions are not like people with APD, plain and simple. And women who obtain abortions will not develop APD under ANY circumstances, unless they are in the less than 1% of the female population who have APD.
Posted by: Lynn at May 8, 2007 02:25 PM
Yes but the point of this study was to show that you can elicit a sociopathic behavior from people who aren’t sociopaths.
I think it would be wise to just drop this line of argumentation, as we are clearly getting nowhere with it and it’s just making people frustrated/angry. MK is entitled to her opinions, and while we may disagree with her, that’s fine, it’s a free country after all, and she is perfectly entitled to think what she wants and disagree with us as much as she wants as well.
Agreed. Although “Wake up and get back to us when you smell the misogyny” is fairly reminicent of pro-life yelling at me to “get back to them when I’ve found God.”
There are mean, unreasonable, and extreme people on all sides. This woman is by no means examplary of all pro-choicers.
MK: Just wondering, if you didn’t suggest that these women are psychopathic, why did you compare them to Dahmer, like they have ANYthing to do with one another.
And you used the phrase “pro-abort” about two posts above when you asked where you said it.
Rae,
In deference to you I will drop this conversation.
You are right. Nothing is to be gained. We all disagree.
Thank you for being the voice of reason.
How are you doing anyway? You were kind of down the last time we talked. Can I diagnose you with anything…kidding…i’m just kidding!
Seriously tho, you okay? Did you read the posts that Val and I replied with? The ones about growing up as freaks?
mk
Cameron,
Your arrogance amazes me for berating Jill about the photo she chose to use as a demonstration of “shock value”. You hold no moral high ground buddy. I’ve seen some of your wretched posts and they are disgusting.
What, can’t handle the real stuff big man? What do you think abortion produces, some bloody looking snot on a tissue paper? It’s a human being for God’s sake!
When people are exposed to what aborion truly is, they change thier minds.
88% of women who are shown ultrasound images of the baby growing inside of them decide not to have abortions.
100% per cent of men involved have a change of heart.
I say it’s time to have state governments make it mandatory that full disclosure be given to what a women is doing prior to having an abortion. This will save countless lives and a women’s heartache. Ultrasound images should be mandatory. This can be done by a neutral third party organization if PP has a problem with it. What are you afraid of and how can that hurt other than the bottom line of PP?
MK: Clearly stating that the majority of people, when placed in certain situations, are capable of behavior that other people find reprehensible. You can’t mark out the characteristics of “women seeking abortions” like they are some special breed. People, placed in situations, will do things that other people don’t agree with. There is no use comparing most normal people with people who have anti-social personality disorder, because normal people in tough situations who act wrongly aren’t going to become APD, even if they stay in those tough situations for the rest of their life, because you don’t develop APD. Normal people have a conscience and empathy, and women seeking abortions are normal people. Comparing their “sociopathic behaviors” says nothing about the women themselves, and says nothing about their actually mental state/health.
(and Rae, I’ll quit now, I promise. It just irks me when people throw psychology around in a trite sort of manner.)
His Man: where are your statistics from this “ultrasound study” coming from? Can I see references?
@MK: I am doing better, when I’m stressed out and overly warm I tend to get really cranky and I tend to get depressed. But I’m feeling better now that my “Calculus Final From Hades” is done. :)
And I’d also like to thank you and Valerie for your kind words. I’m just glad to be out of the dorm and to be at home (though I am getting “kicked out” at the end of the summer…my mutti thinks I have to leave the nest sometime!).
@Lynn: Bah, it’s ok, I do agree though, it irks me as well, I just try to ignore it when I can.
Well, MK how abot you “sorry” to me. Seeing that 1.) You assumed that I have a personality disorder &
2.) When I called you on it, you lied to me
but
3.) When a fellow Pro-Lifer called you on it too, you then admited you did in fact assume I had a perosnality disorder.
Pro-Choice.
Pro-abort.
What is the difference? You are FOR choice. And what is that choice? That choice is abortion. So, Choice = Abortion.
Pro-Choice
Pro-abortion
It’s the same thing. Why does it bother the choice crowd to be called what they believe in? You believe abortion is a woman’s right. Therefore, you are FOR abortion. It doesn’ say “I will have an abortion myself”. It just says, you are FOR abortion.
Why are you ashamed of the very thing you are fighting for?
Um, maybe perhaps not FOR abortion, but for the OPTION of women getting abortions if that is what they want?
*shrugs*
No I am not for abortion. I wish there were less of them happening. But this “absitince only education” crap is apparently not working. We need to teach the children of today about BC, and how to use it properly.
Exactly Rae, I am for *her choice*
Mid:
Should a future Forensic Psychologist be using words like “retarded”? Let me see, you haven’t taken the Hillary Clinton impramatur, nihil obstat, political correctness, proper use of propaganda for self gain course yet?
Let me give you a clue, don’t use the word “retarded” in your resume.
Let me give you another clue. It’s sin, it’s about choosing sin, it’s about personal responsiblity.
Valerie:Actually the pro-choice position is usually all encompassing as pro-reproductive choice, including open access to birth control, the morning after pill, programs that make adoption easier for mothers, assistance for pregnant women and mothers, etc. The pro-choice side is for women to be able to make reproductive choices and have access to reproductive healthcare, like prenatal care and birth control, as well as abortion. So to sum the whole issue up as “pro-abortion” is false, and does not include the majority of what pro-choice advocates work towards as a whole.
@ Midnite – MK already apologized to you:
“If I hurt your feelings, I am sorry. I may have crossed a line there. No excuses. It was bad, bad, bad on my part.
Mea Culpa.
mk
Posted by: MK at May 8, 2007 01:48 PM
Careful Mid:
To teach children to sin, i.e., not to abstain from extra-marital sex, is according to Jesus Christ, a very bad thing.
mid –
How did BC and abstinence only come into the description of choice and abortion?
You are too for abortion! You are here almost everyday defending the right for a woman to CHOOSE ABORTION.
Again, I ask, why are you ashamed of the very thing you are defending? If abortion is actually a woman’s right, then you should be proud of your decision to support the right to abort.
Why be embarrassed of the very thing you believe in?
Well, Hisman who are you to judge me on anything? And for the record, I HATE Hillary Clinton and if she gets into office, I am moving to Canada. Once again, Hisman, leave you’re religion and God out of any argument that involves me. And I have a very nice resume, thanks for asking!
*ahem*
His Man: Not everybody believes in God and not everybody lives according to Jesus Christ. So no, teaching about having safer sex is not a bad thing. However, I think sex ed should be taught in a manner that comprehensively teaches proper methods to have safer sex but emphasize that abstinence is the best way to avoid STDs and pregnancies.
Lynn:
Center for Moral Clarity.
His Man: Comprehensive sex education always says that abstinence is the best possible option, and the only fail-safe way to avoid STD’s and pregnancy. The difference between comprehensive sex-ed and abstinence only is that abstinence only education is often riddled with inaccuracies about condoms and STD transmission, and does not adequately inform students about how to prevent STDs. Just to reiterate, comprehensive sex ed does teach abstinence as the best choice for teens and as the only way to prevent pregnancy and STDs, so that is included in the classes! However, it also gives accurate facts and information, and I think that teaching children what’s true is definitely better than teaching them something false.
Lynn –
WE are for women getting proper healthcare. WE are for assisting women who are pregnant and care for after the baby is born. WE are for education. WE are for adoption. (except for NAF – they have a problem with quoting from an anti-adoption organization called exiled mothers) That is what all of us have in common. What we do NOT have in common is the choice for abortion. That is what sets us apart.
You may say that pro-life doesn’t agree with BC. That would be like me saying Pro-Choice doesn’t believe in morality. It may be true for some, but not for all. The fact is: The choice is abortion.
The Choice has nothing to do with anything else. The Choice is abortion. Our choice is Life.
Choice = abortion
Choice = life
Get it?
Thanks, SH, I did not see that.
Hisman- I have premartial sex all the time. In fact, I am the PRODUCT of pre-marital sex. And you have *no right * to judge me or my actions.
Valerie: I am not on here everyday. In fact, I havent been on here in about a week. Try again. And no, I am not a pro-abort for the last time. I am *pro choice*. I believe it is a woman’s personal choice, not mine to make for her. I believe birth control methods should be availble to all women.
@Valerie: Quick question, if there was a way to remove fetii/babies from the wombs of women who don’t have the desire to be pregnant and keep them alive so that they could be transplanted into another woman’s womb or an artificial uterus, would you be in favor of that?
okay – Gotta go vote in the primary’s…
Will be back later tonight if anyone responds to me…..
Valerie,
My wife told me to get off my high-horse the other day. I kinda laughed(..haven’t I heard that somewhere else). Ha.
J
Hisman: Thank you for the reference. I went to the site and saw the statistic you are referring to mentioned several times, but I can’t find any resources for the specific study they are talking about. Could you perhaps direct me to where I might find the source for the study? When someone gives me a study I usually like to examine the methods and conclusions in the actual study itself, if at all possible.
Valerie:
“get it?”
No, you just told me what MY position was. I think I understand what my position is and what choices I support a little bit more than you. I am pro-choice because I am pro a woman being able to make her own reproductive choices and have access to health and medical care whatever that choice is. You do not support a woman’s ability to make her own reproductive choices. (and a large majority of pro-lifers are at the very least anti Plan B, and at the very most, anti-all birth control, so I wouldn’t say the pro-life camp is too keen on that reproductive choice in general) So no, I will stick with “pro-choice,” because that ACTUALLY DESCRIBES MY POSITION.
Hisman: I’m interested in this “Informed Choice Act,” because it might actually be helpful, in that it would provide ultrasound equipment only to pregnancy clinics that actually have licensed physicians overseeing them. One of the things I hear about a lot of pregnancy clinics is that they don’t actually have medical staff to assist pregnant women. These ultrasound machines would only be going to places with licensed physicians, which I think is a very good provision in the act.
“(3) The entity provides medical services to pregnant women under the guidance and supervision of a physician who serves as the medical director of the clinic and is duly licensed to practice medicine in the State in which the entity is located.
(4) The entity is legally qualified to provide such medical services to pregnant women and is in compliance with all Federal, State, and local requirements for the provision of such services.”
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-223
“Rae:Quick question, if there was a way to remove fetii/babies from the wombs of women who don’t have the desire to be pregnant and keep them alive so that they could be transplanted into another woman’s womb or an artificial uterus, would you be in favor of that?”
geez, do you hate babies that much!
what wrong with that idea jasper? I mean the fetus lives, and the woman isnt pregnant anymore. Both sides are happy.
midnite678,
If thats what it takes to stop the killing, then Yes.
Jill,
Since I’m not a poster maker for Life Chain, I
Cam does have a point.
*winks @ Cam*
Cam,
Satan is speaking through you. Reject him now.
hisman again shows his true colors and offends the rational world.
I’m not that interested in what Jesus Christ thinks might be a “bad thing.” What a way to live you life.
Oh Jasper, you silly goose. Now you believe he is “possessed” by a demon. How funny and unlikely is that speculation. I think Cam just speaks the truth, no matter what. I admire that in a person.
I want him to read Religious Literacy: What Every American should know-and Doesn’t just to see what he would think of it. Personally I think he would enjoy it until he realized that in reality it is because of christians that solwly and surely christianity lost its foothold in schools, and the fact that the whole “war on Christmas” as O’reily calls it, started in 1659 by PROTESTANTS to try and outlaw its recognition by the colonies.
Granted, it does talk about what each side has done to screw with religon in terms of schools and the like and the misconceptions that a majority of people have about the court cases involving religion in schools. Its actually a really interesting read if you can get through the first bit of it, which talks a lot about Puritan New England and then the schoolbooks they used, etc.
There are some fairly shocking statistics in it too in terms of what Americans all know about their own faiths.
once again, id just want to see his man’s reaction to the book overall.
Rae,
His Man: Not everybody believes in God and not everybody lives according to Jesus Christ. So no, teaching about having safer sex is not a bad thing. However, I think sex ed should be taught in a manner that comprehensively teaches proper methods to have safer sex but emphasize that abstinence is the best way to avoid STDs and pregnancies.
See, I told you you had a quiet strength…
Look at you all reasonable and calm…good for you!
mk
Haven’t been contributing lately to the site, but I’m glad to see Rae is here and figuratively “holding down the fort”. How are you, MK? Haven’t gotten to speak to you in quite some time. :)
SH,
@ Midnite – MK already apologized to you:
“If I hurt your feelings, I am sorry. I may have crossed a line there. No excuses. It was bad, bad, bad on my part.
Mea Culpa
mk
Posted by: MK at May 8, 2007 01:48 PM
Thank you…I’m glad someone saw that as it wasn’t easy to admit.
Abortion DOES kill children. What’s the problem?
No Heather, it killes a fetus. Killing Children is murder and punishable by a court of law.
MK, No problem : ).
Heather, haven’t had the chance but congrats on your new baby!
The last time I checked abortions are still *legal*
I realized that you had MK after SH showed me the post. I got busy at work during that point and accidently missed it.
SH, Thank you!
Alyssa,
I have a shredded ACL but other than that I am doing well. And you?
And yes I remembered you at mass Sunday. Haven’t given up yet.
:)
mk
hmmm, I guess I am back to being ignored again. Oh well, la la la la la
Hi midnite,
Noted you mentioned killing a fetus vs. killing a child. Yes, it is killing. Using clinical terms such as “fetus” does not change the fact that a small human can now be killed using other clinical terms such as “D&C”. I understand that you agree with the laws concerning killing of children. So an older child is just worthier a human being than a younger one?
So an older child is just worthier a human being than a younger one?
—————-
Janet,
i am not quite sure what you mean by that? Do children (newborns to age 18) have rights as an adult? Absolutely. Do I think a fetus has rights? Not really. It has the right to be wanted. If a woman does not consent to pregnancy then she should have the *choice* to do what is right for her. Now then, you’re probably going to ask about adoption. But, adoption solves an un-wanted child, no an un-wanted pregnancy.
And fetus is a medical term as well is a D&C. I didnt make these terms up out of thin air. Did that answer your question?
Midnite- “child” is not a medical term, but rather coloquial.
Thus, while it would be factually inaccurate to say “abortion kills a neonate!” it is perfectly acceptableto say “abortion kills a child”.
The word “child” does not imply any age or stage of development. For example, I am my mother’s child even though I am an adult.
“Lump of blood” however does not describe a human at any stage of development nor does it describe any sort of paternal relationship.
While I try to differentiate between a fetal child and a born child during debate for clarification, there is nothing more inaccurate about the statement that “abortion kills children” than the statement “my children are coming to visit”.
Hi Mid.
Yes, abortions unfortunately are still legal under U.S. law, but that doesn’t make it right. Once upon a time, children were allowed to work in factories, since there were no laws in place against child labor, and many did, to the detriment of their physical and emotional wellbeing, and in some cases their lives. We now have child labor laws on the books, to keep this from happening.
So, my point is just because something is legally allowed to happen, doesn’t make it right.
Hey Lauren (while I know you are online) congratulations on your pregnancy!
Hi there as well, Lauren…I congratulated you on the previous post, and I was wondering if you had any names thrown around yet? (I know it’s early, but we had a name-fest going on with Heather, aka Momof3, before she had Madison). :)
Congrats again!
Thanks Alyssa! If we’re having a girl we’ll probably name her Vera Elizabeth (my great-grandmother’s name).
Boy names are up for grabs!
Thanks SH!
I actually have had a really conflicting day. I found out I was pregnant(horray!), then found out that my son may have a growth deficiancy. Not that being short is the worst thing in the world, it just threw us for a loop to hear it! So we’re setting up an endo appointment to see what’s going on. Talk about a rollercoaster!
I know when I was little the doctor told my mom that she was concerned that I was so short. Very short!! But I am 5’5″ now so you never know; your son will probably grow up to be 6’5″ : )!
We’re just happy he’s so healthy!
“Lump of blood” however does not describe a human at any stage of development nor does it describe any sort of paternal relationship.
Lauren: I did not use this term, someone else did. I have never compared a fetus to a lump of blood
—————————–
So, my point is just because something is legally allowed to happen, doesn’t make it right.
SH: Now then, when have I said Abortions are “right”. I havent, infact I said I wished they happened less. I’ve stated (earlier in this thread) that I support a woman’s *choice*. It could be abortion, it could be adoption or it could be keeping the child to raise. I simply support her decision that she believes is best for her. Also stated earlier, I’ve held two friends hands, one during an abortion (that was forced upon her by her mother) and my other friend who has a beautiful three yeard old daughter. I supported both of their actions.
Lauren, Amen!
“If a woman does not consent to pregnancy then she should have the *choice* to do what is right for her.”
This woman “chose” to have sex. Pregnancy is a consequence of sex. You have to take responsibility for having pre-marital sex, and one of the most serious consequences of that is a baby.
Abortion is refusing to accept responsibility for getting pregnant. Abortion is “choosing” to avoid the reality of the situation (that you have a living human being growing inside you) and taking the easy way out.
Yes, adoption is the most obvious answer to a woman who can’t take care of her baby. That does require sacrifice on her part but that goes hand in hand with accepting responsibility for getting pregnant.
No one said being a woman was easy.
This woman “chose” to have sex. Pregnancy is a consequence of sex. You have to take responsibility for having pre-marital sex, and one of the most serious consequences of that is a baby.
Lauren: Consent to sex does not = consent to pregnancy.
If two consenting adults are having consenual sex and one party removes their consent in the middle and the other party does not stop it is considered rape. The woman must consent to the fetus using her nutrients and body for nine months. If she consents that fine, if she doesnt thats fine too
Lynn,
Your repsonse was canned and typical of one who doesn’t think for themselves or very thoroughly for that matter.
A person can say the earth is flat all they want. It’s still round and for those that believe it’s flat, a truth they may or may not have to admit with probably little or no consequence unless they’re a rocket or space satellite designer.
On the other hand, denial of God’s existence does not make same true. Rather, it is a truth that is eventually realized by all as His word says, “Every knee shall bow and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.” The sad part is that if He is not acknowledged in faith before death and only by sight after death, it is too late and the consequences eternal in nature.
You might say, we can prove that the earth is round and not flat. Really? Have you personally determined that the earth is round or has someone told you and reasoned it out with you so that it makes sense to you? Therefore, you believe it. Scientists have never seen an atom, but because of mathematics and physics and understanding they reason that they have to exist. Have you ever seen electricity or just the effects of electricity?
Same with God, if you would listen and look all around you who else but a wonderful God could create the beauty in nature, the wonder, the majesty? If thoughts and emotions are themselves not proof of God’s existence apart from all the physical evidence I don’t know what is. Are thoughts and emotions simply chemical reactions in the brain? I think not.
Are you absolutely sure it is wise for one to take the risk of saying in their hearts, “there is no God”? The Bible calls such a person a fool.
Mid, I was not saying you personally though abortion was right. My point was just because something is allowed by the government to happen does not mean it should.
And actually Mid, consent to sex DOES equal consent to a possibly pregnancy. There is always a chance you will get pregnant. Every woman knows that. There is no way you can say to your body “Body, I demand that you not allow my boyfriend’s sperm to fertilize my egg. Make it so!” And I am not talking about rape, I am talking about sex between consenting adults.
I meant *thought* and *possible*.
Hisman, pleae leave your God and religion out of the argument. Not everyone believes in it (I being one).
SH, I disagree with you on consent to sex does not = consent to pregnancy. I take birth control everyday (I was put on it orginaly [and still] for medical problems). My boyfriend wears a condom. I am consenting to sex, obviously, but I am not consenting to pregnancy (Although if for some reason I did get pregnant I would not have an abortion). Now then, just because I wouldnt have an abortion doesnt mean that is the *correct choice* for every woman. I believe every woman is capable of making the best decision for herself. If we allow the Gov. to ban abortions, I think we are opening the door to a Gov that has control over our bodily autonomy.
Cameron,
It’s amazing how you see my proclamation of the truth as hatred. You must live in the Bible belt or something as you are especially annoyed at Biblical truth. Boy, I’d really like to know what happended to you. My guess is that you live in the south somewhere and are probably a grad student or college prof who’s got too much time on his hands. Why don’t you just move to NYC or Berkeley. Why the self-torture?
Or perhaps you’re just a security guard looking busy on a computer screen and trying to appear intelligent on this site.
No I don’t hate you, I pity you.
Midnight:
To leave God out of the argument would truly be ignorant.
Hisman, I spell your name correctly, please do the same for me. It is midnite, not midnight. And no leaving god out of an argument is not ignorant. Believing that *every person* believes in god is being ignorant.
And there is nothing wrong with living int he bible belt. I am in B’ham Alabama, smack in the middle of the bible belt. I grew up going to church and such. When I turned 15, I got so angry with churches in general (especially the one I am *still* a member of) I got up in the middle of the sermon and walked out, and have never set foot in a church again (almost eight years). I think *most* churches are cults and most people attending church services are hypocrites.
Yeah HisMan,
Don’t you know better than to post something you believe in without checking with midnite first?
Unless she says it’s okay, please refrain from disturbing her delicate sensitivity. She bruises easily. All that empathy.
mk
Mid, I think we will just have to agree to disagree on the consent to pregnancy discussion for now, since it is closing time here at the salt mines. To be continued at another time . . .
Ya’ll have a great night!
And also, you shouldnt pitty anyone or pass judgement on them. It says not to in Matthew 7:1, or did you *accidently* forget that passage in the bible?
Midnite,
Didn’t catch this the first time around…
Those images (which are not factual)
Are you insinuating that those are not actual pictures?
mk
And also, you shouldnt pitty anyone or pass judgement on them. It says not to in Matthew 7:1, or did you *accidently* forget that passage in the bible?
Posted by: midnite678 at May 8, 2007 05:42 PM
Jasper –
I think I like your wife. Seems to have a lot of class.
;-)
Midnite678:
Where did I say that everyone believes in God? No, I wouldn’t be posting on this site if I believed everyone believed in God. In fact, it’s obvious that most people don’t believe in God.
And I have heard that worn out phrase, “I don’t go to church because they’re all hyprocites”. It’s lazy and meanignless. Who put that lie in your brain? Isn’t that where hypocrites need to be, in church? Or can you tell me that you’re now perfect in all and everything you do and say, and don’t need to be in church?
midnite- I wasn’t claiming that you used the “lump of blood” line, just explaining how it differed from pro-life language.
MK, Was I speaking to you? No I was not. Nor did I ever “claim” I make the rules. I simply pointed out that passage to Hisman (not you once again) that his judgement is not condoned by his God.
Now then smarty pants, there is no reason for you to talk to me in such a way when I have politely ignored you for the two hours. I had a debate with SH in which I was very respectful and clearly stated my opinions. I did not bother her, nor did she bother me, b/c she was respectful and courteous. If people dont “personally attack” me (like you did when claiming I had a personality disorder) I am very nice and respectful of other people’s opinions (not your Dahmer theory though). And Hisman is being ignorant when he says “everyone should believe in God”. What about Jews, or Buddhist’s etc. They dont believe in “his God” and they are not ignorant. His stance is however.
Now then I am not going to acknowledge you for the rest of day, please do the same to me.
Rae –
“Valerie: Quick question, if there was a way to remove fetii/babies from the wombs of women who don’t have the desire to be pregnant and keep them alive so that they could be transplanted into another woman’s womb or an artificial uterus, would you be in favor of that?”
The answer is no, I would not be in favor of that. For one, even in the far away future I do not see that as possibility. The fetus is too delicate, which is why it is so easy to dislodge said fetus and suck him out. Having a premature delivery or a difficult pregnancy can cause serious trauma to the child. It can cause a number of “issues”. Look up Sensory Issues in children and you will see 1 issue that I am talking about.
I’ve said it before, I do not believe in playing God/fooling around with Mother Nature. I try to be as much of a naturalist as possible. I try to use Mother Earth for my medicine, soap, shampoo, cleaning supplies etc. because I trust her. If she had wanted us to be able to “tell are bodies that we do not consent to pregnancy” than she would have done that.
Have you noticed that no matter how many barricades a person puts up she can still get pregnant? Have you ever noticed that people who take vitamins everyday still gets sick? Have you ever noticed any amount of precaution isn’t enough for any aspect of life? That is because Mother Nature doesn’t like to be played around with.
I will use me as example. In order to keep my mind together I have to take Adderall. This is unnatural to my body, but it does cause a natural affect to my mind. But that doesn’t stop the Adderall from damaging my liver and kidney’s. Even though I don’t consent for the Adderall to damage my organs, it still will. (Ya knew I had to throw that in….)
OK Hisman, that’s mu opinion on churchs. And no one put that “lie” into my brain either. I came up with that all on my own. My whole family(minus my mother is is a presbyterian) is SOUTHERN BAPTIST.
Did I ever say I was perfect? Hmm, putting words in my mouth again. You are quite good at that! No I believe, in karma. The religion of “do unto others as you would do unto yourself”. I think most people in churches are hypocrites for several reasons, and I could explain them to you, but honestly I dont feel like it at the moment.
New rules:
Don’t be ignorant
Don’t talk to midnite unless she talks to you first.
Don’t accuse her of making rules. Just follow them.
Got it.
Also:
Don’t put words in her mouth.
Don’t ask her to do something she doesn’t feel like at the moment.
more?
Yes, don’t bring up her personality disorders.
Look MK, you are acting like a 5 year old child throwing a tantrum now. Are you going to teach this behavior to your children? B/c If so, I feel deeply sorry for them. Once again, for *your sake* leave me alone today. I am not in the mood for your nonsense and tantrums. Serisouly, *GROW UP* and act your age.
Jill, I dont have one. DO YOU?
Let’s see:
Act your age.
Don’t bother her when she’s not in the mood.
She does feel sorry for my children tho, so I suppose that’s a point for her on the empathy side…
MK, I do have to agree that your posts are a bit childish.
But that’s just me.
Threat alert, threat alert! Citizens arrest, citizens arrest!
Lynn:
“I am pro-choice because I am pro a woman being able to make her own reproductive choices and have access to health and medical care whatever that choice is. You do not support a woman’s ability to make her own reproductive choices”
I am pro a woman making her own reproductive choices as long as she doesn’t murder an innocent child in the process. You know, that fetus that didn’t ask to be put there in the first place. And I fully agree that women need access to health and medical care…when did I ever say they shouldn’t? And I do think women can make their own reproductive choices. They can choose to not have sex. They can choose to use all the BC they want. They can choose to take responsibility if an accident happens. These are reproductive choices.
“and a large majority of pro-lifers are at the very least anti Plan B, and at the very most, anti-all birth control, so I wouldn’t say the pro-life camp is too keen on that reproductive choice in general”
Thanks for telling me what my position is. You’re right, when it comes to the destruction of human life I believe that choice is murder. But when it comes to BC pro-life does vary a bit. Just like pro-aborts differ when it comes to when and why an abortion can be performed. Seems you guys like to limit that reproduction freedom too.
Again – I will ask – since no one has answered.
Why are “choicers” ashamed of the very thing they are defending? If abortion is actually a woman’s right, then you should be proud of your decision to support the right to abort.
Why be embarrassed of the very thing you believe in?
MK, you are proving how childish and stupid you are. And yes I have empathy; this is just as clear as you not having a stupidity problem. You know your so-called apology was full of $@it & you know it. You didnt hurt my feelings, b/c I know the truth about me. I dont have a personality disorder, nor do I claim to be perfect. If people on this site were respectful and courteous to other people, maybe you wouldnt piss off alot of people. You are really acting like a child. And I do feel sorry for your children and anyone you come into contact with, b/c you are a self-righteous (insert vulgar word here).
Dan, I wanted to read that book! I think I saw it on the Daily Show. I think it would be really great to have world religions class. Maybe there would be less resentment for other religions once they are understood?
MK:
They can’t handle the truth…….
Please don’t act your age, I love you just the way you are.
Remember what our Dear Savior said, “Unless you become as one of these little ones you cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven”.
My goal is actaully to become more childlike as I get older. I don’t want to miss the boat.
Calling you childish is like calling Cameron the Queen of England.
Cameron’s gay?
MidNoon:
Look who’s calling the kettle black.
I guess using vulgarity isn’t childish, it’s adultish.
Do you smoke just to impress people about how mature your are?
Oh goodie,
I get to talk. She addressed me directly…
ummmmm…Oh I know.
I really did feel bad about insinuating that you were a psychopath, but you never accepted my apology.
And you continue to refer back to it…so there’s nothing more I can do.
I was just jousting with you and you took it personally. I apologized. I’ll apologize again if it will help.
I’m sorry that I crossed a line. Again, no excuses. I was wrong.
Now what you do with that apology is up to you.
I certainly didn’t hear one from you for calling me about twenty vulgar names (some of which Jill deleted) but I don’t want one because I know that you said them in anger and I took them in that vain.
Obviously you are more sensitive than I am and that is why I apologized.
Sincerely,
If you go back and read all of the posts again, you will see that you are the one making the disparaging remarks, not me.
But whatever.
Sorry this was so long, but who knows when you’ll decree that I am allowed to speak again.
Dang it Jill,
I was busy answering midnite and I wanted to be the one to say that…
Only I was going to say:
Hmmmm…I wouldn’t doubt he was the “queen” of something…that would explain alot!
HisMan,
As always you are too, too kind. I thank you kind sir. I was beginning to doubt myself. You, never. But me? Well, you never can tell…
mk
Jill,
I didn’t know that.
Is the Queen gay?
I don’t think Cameron’s gay. BTW, Has anyone ever been to a gay wedding? they’re really fun!!
Okay, I am back. Traffic was light today (ha, light for Dallas!).
Mid, whenever you get on an airplane or in a car, you are consenting to the possibility that you may die. The plane may lose an engine, a wing, etc. You know this is possible. It does not matter how many precautions you take, or how many times the flight attendants show you how to buckle the seatbelt. You still may die.
The fact of the matter is pretty much every aspect of life has a risk associated with it. And a baby is one of the risks you accept when you have sex. You know there is a possibility you may get pregnant, even if your boyfriend wears a condom and you are on the pill. There is still a chance. So you are consenting to the possibility that you may get pregnant, and in doing so, are accepting the responsibilities that come with your actions.
Cameron’s getting married? To the queen? And she’s gay? AND you’re invited? Wow…wait til I tell my friends…
HM, only if she can sing the falsetto in “Bohemian Rhapsody”
Wait!
Who’s gay?
I’m confused.
MK – Do we still have the Lemmings around here some where?
I see spots.
Now we all need to hear it, don’t we?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irp8CNj9qBI
Actually a gay wedding sounds like a hoot! I couldn’t attend of course on moral principles, but I bet it would be a blast. Very colorful. And great food. Hmmm. maybe I’d bend my principles if I really liked the couple…would that be bad?
Valerie and Kim, catch up. Cameron is a former gay member of Queen.
Weddings?
I love weddings
DRINKS ALL AROUND!
Can’t have a wedding without Queen : ).
Or rum . . .
Valerie,
I’ll fill you in…Cameron is marrying a gay lemming. Actually the queen of the Lemmings.
And we’re invited. But we can’t start any trouble.
What should we wear? Boas. Gotta wear boas.
And that’s when we can do breakfast. After the wedding…
What should we get him/them? I like crock pots myself…pun intended.
Jill,
Using the words gay and wedding in the same sentence is an oxymoron.
Fun, yeah I bet. The reprobate minister might say, “’til a blast from a cold water hose do they part”.
PIP, the book is AMAZING. Im done with his actual theory and what not and am now in his dictionary of terms about various religions he thinks all Americans should know.
The first bit is a little dull though, simply because it focuses so much on Puritanism and puritan education, but the farther in you get, the better it gets.
He actually has some good suggestions, such as a compulsory Bible literacy course and the same for a world religions course. Very good idea in my personal opinion.
Wait Jill,
I’m confused, which one of those guys is Cameron marrying?
Now we all need to hear it, don’t we?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irp8CNj9qBI
“Using the words gay and wedding in the same sentence is an oxymoron.”
Nope, perfectly fine in a legal sense, maybe in your belief system it is.
Gotta love Massachusetts, always ahead of the times
Hisman, Some may find that offensive.
Also,
(On a completly random note)
“New&Improved” is an oxymoron.
go Kim, I didnt wanna point it out since i know im gunna get a preaching to >
And Cameron’s gay wedding reception has to end with “Shout.” I insist.
Oh, my, I’m going back to the 70s here. Someone pull me back. Now I’m having a Queen fix. If I move on to Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon I may need to find a drug dealer.
Where is the groom [aka My strip-poker buddy?]
Dark Side of the Moon = Amazing album
Oh, Dan and Kim, you kids, you. So serious. Major role reversal going on tonight.
We will we will rock you…..
I think the cold water hose would be a great time…
But we’d have to let the queen change first. Wouldn’t want to ruin the boa…
Did anybody check with midnite to make sure this wedding thing wasn’t against the rules?
Is it an afternoon or evening wedding?
I hope it’s not gonna be outdoors…I hate mosquitos.
Where is the groom [aka My strip-poker buddy?]
Wait a minute! I draw the line at a nude wedding!
Phooey!
And I had such big plans!
Sorry, D&K, I see we were posting at the same time. Glad you’re joining the party.
Do we ACTUALLY HAVE SOMETHING IN COMMON?
Dark Side of the Moon?
Well slap my face and call me abused.
Kim,
Hisman, Some may find that offensive.
Also,
(On a completly random note)
“New&Improved” is an oxymoron.
I think he knew that…
I’m actually more of a Led Zeplinn person, You’re not a true pisces until you love “Stairway to Heaven”
Actually, when I miscarried, it pretty much did look only like a lump of blood. It’s not like a big ol’ baby pops out of you at 5 weeks in. If I don’t get in trouble for miscarrying, I don’t see why I should get in trouble for having an abortion. I was originally pregnant with twins, miscarried one, and aborted the other. And HisMan, I saw my ultrasound. I’m sure it will have a much greater meaning to me when I am actually ready to parent children.
Ahhh, I went to a gay wedding once, it was fantastic. The reception was the most fun of any wedding reception I had ever been too.
Mind you, I don’t have a problem coming nude (I can always stategically place my boas so as to cover my ravishing body)
Just don’t think I could stomach seeing Cameron sans clothes…tho I do like poker…
im fairly sure being slapped can constitute abuse, yweve already had that argument here, i assume you dont wanna repeat ;)
Pink Floyd in general is good. I have such diverse taste though. Pink Floyd,. Metallica, Smile Empty Soul, Matchbox 20, Frank Sinatra, Creed, Alkaline Trio, random jazz artists, REM, Disturbed, ACDC, Barenaked Ladies, etc.
my musical taste is EVERYWHERE
wow, sorry for my misspellings.
And how the heck did I forget Zeplinn!
I’ve been to one.. .In Montreal. Ironically, the mother of 1 of the grooms refused to come because it wasn’t in a Catholic Church.
Well slap my face and call me abused.
Oh Jill, now they’re gonna bring up the “Jill is for spousal abuse” stuff again…
Hey OTHER SIDE —- Lighten up!
It’s a wedding, not a funeral!
sheesh.
mk
Kim/Dan, about Stairway to Heaven, it became a caricature after awhile… so overplayed we made fun of it. So you young turks like it again?
Dan, like your varied taste in music. Mine similar.
Well slap my face and call me abused.
Oh Jill, now they’re gonna bring up the “Jill is for spousal abuse” stuff again…
Posted by: MK [TypeKey Profile Page] at May 8, 2007 07:06 PM
Too late…I see Dan beat me to it…I should have bet someone…
lol MK, I was foolin around with it, no worries
Stairway to Heaven is good, but it is still overplayed on some radio stations, which im guessing is a scary thought to you ;)
Jill,
Kim/Dan, about Stairway to Heaven, it became a caricature after awhile… so overplayed we made fun of it. So you young turks like it again?
Right up there with “Color my World” and “Lorelei” by Chicago and Styx…
Man do I feel old…
Poor Cameron…He’s missing his bachelorette party!
Rush said something today about we’re losing our right to free speech not by the government but by liberals and political correctness. I refuse! FREEDOM!
Zepplin/Guns n’ Roses/ Queen/ Kurt Kobain – prevail on my Ipod. (Along with the mandatory Shakira/Sean Paul/Christina Aguilera songs
FREEBIRD!!!!
Nah, not scary. Just interesting.
What’s most interesting is when one of my daughter’s songs comes on the radio and I start singing it because it’s really an oldie. Freaks her out. I love it.
Kurt Cobain… Now there’s one of many books I want to write. All these people died at the age of 27: Kurt Cobain, Janice Joplin, Jimmy Hendrix, and Jim Morrison.
Okay,
I have to go read to the midgets so I guess I have to leave the wedding early. I’ll swing by in a bit and see if you guys are fallin’ down drunk yet…
Jill, save me a cigar!
MK, me and the Priests for Life boys have a rule about smoking cigars with us. You have to be able to blow a smoke ring. Well?
I can blow smoke rings out of my nose. I learned from Gandalf. Does that qualify?
Priest guys eh?
Thats okay, I like a challenge ;)
Jks, jks
Midnite,
I meant that re-naming a living human being “fetus” does not make it less human, just as “D&C” is scraping out a small person from their mother. (i know they are also used to remove polyps and the like from the uterus as well.)
SH,
I totally agree with your law post. Thanks.
Na, Zepplin is inferior compared to Hendrix. I’m going to get a lot of sh*t for this I know. But I think he’s sorta overrated. The music is good, but not as good as EVERY SINGLE PERSON ON CAMPUS thinks he is. Now Hendrix, on the other hand…
Zeppelin*
And yes, Nirvana rocks my world. But Blind Melon does too. Ol’ Shannon was such a bada**. But he died of an overdose too early to become as famous! All he is known for is the one song, but I have two CDs, both of which are delicious.
Thanks Janet!
MK: smoke rings out the nose? You know I automatically thought of the Chicago Bulls. Gotta see this. You’re invited.
PIP: At the time, Led Zeppelin didn’t do anything for me, for the most part. Robert Plant’s voice got on my nerves. Same thing with Rush. Now when I hear LZ, I have a new appreciation. Still hate Rush.
Jimi Hendrix vs. Jimmy Page: yes, Jimi Hendrix.
I actually didn’t like hard rock back in the day. Liked Beatles, Paul McCartney solo, Eagles, Pink Floyd, etc. Then my sons got into Metallica and I belatedly did, too, and now enjoy certain classic heavy metal like Deep Purple, Smoke on the Water.
Pip, Do you like the NIN ?
Jill: Pink Floyd and Beatles also high on my list.
Heather: why yes, I do. However I like their old stuff (ala the Fragile) rather than this new stuff (With Teeth). My exboyfriend was the opposite. I knew from then on out we were doomed as a couple ; )
Humorous story about NIN.
I dished out the ridiculous 40 bucks to see them here at STL. My best friend Eva, who lived in Boston at the time, told me she was going to see them in NYC. I call her after the concert to tell her how awesome it was and asked her if she thought the same. I ws surprised at her answer: she got kicked out! Apparently she wasn’t in her assigned seat and refused to leave the new one (that was unoccupied). When they tried to force her to leave she tried to break free from the security officer and found herself pinned on the ground and forced to leave.
Hilarious! I laughed for so long. Kind of sad it was a waste of 60 bucks for her, though.
The NIN are from my town! *Head Like a Hole* My fav. song.
And no MK, gay weddings are fine with me. I would *love* to see you attend one and not say anything horrid. And yes I do accept your apology that you gave me earlier (the 2nd one). Bad day at work (dealing with teenagers wanting a limo for prom), I am sick, & tired from school & work (I average maybe four hous of sleep a night). So yes, you’re post (I shall not repeat it) irritated the ever living crap out of me, but no you did not hurt my feelings. Sorry, you dont have that kind of power. With that and everything else going on in my life that your comment was the icing on the cake to set me off. So, once again, forgiven and I do apologize for calling you names.
Peace? (and please stop with the whole midnite’s rules thing, it is a little bit much.)And no that is not the only bible verse I know either.
Very nice!! Classic NIN. Pretty Hate Machine is pretty grand. That, The Fragile, and Downward Spiral are my faves. I really don’t know if I can pick a favorite song of theirs! It depends on my mood.
One of the former members is in Filter now.
Are they good? Haven’t heard of em.
Yes. Not bad.
Sweet.
I went to a Deep Purple concert in 1985, in was very good, but Richie Blackmore (lead guitarist) messed up “smoke on the water”, it almost like he forgot the notes.
Jasper – hard to imagine!
How about Peter Frampton?
Midnite,
Peace.
Can you blow smokerings?
No, MK. actually I’ve never tried. I am in the process of quitting smoking(although it’s not going so well).
Oh, Peter Frampton, yes!
Hmmm…could explain the mood.
Well, we can still smoke the peace pipe.
I’ll teach you.
And seriously, if you were anti-social you wouldn’t have cared so much…so you’re in the clear.
mk
Well, that is nice to know.
*inhales peace pipe smoke*
and yes, the quitting smoking really puts me in a crappy mood. Doing good today, only one so far.
I smoke too. If I quit I’d be perfect and nobody would play with me anymore…
Oooooh, narcissistic personality disorder anyone?
also inhaling…
hey, what’s in this pipe. I’m seeing elephants in my den…oh, sorry, that’s the hubby.
hmmm, leaning towards histrionic disorder myself.
MK, did you “spike” this peace pipe, I am seeing rainbows….
Oh no wait that’s the glare on my old tv (it’s older than I am)
I’m getting sleeeeeeepy…
No date raping, kay?
See you in the morning…
Glad we’re not going to bed mad…
Did you say something…I thought I heard…Oh never mind…
Thanks guys!
I laughed so hard I woke up both kids!
I walk away to take care of the kids and you guys go to a gay wedding without me!
*sniff, sniff*
I hope you saved some of the peace pipe for me! Or at least a boa I can wear in memory of missing the party.
*sniff, sniff*
WAAAAAAA!!!!
I missed the Lemmings.
Valerie, can you blow smoke rings?
HUGE NIN fan here, plus a big fan of the Eagles(the band, not the football practicers…coughcough), ZZTop, Collective Soul, Donna Summer, the Pointer Sisters, Fleetwood Mac, Journey, Foreigner, Boston, Goo Goo Dolls, Joe Walsh, Clapton, almost all 80’s music,
Sorry…accidentally pressed “post” too soon…. lol…I was gonna finish up by saying I like more music that came out before I was born than I like from today. Although I have a like Shiny Toy Guns, Muse, and 4 Strings a lot, with a bunch of techno and all different kinds of rock mixed in. Not a huge rap/country fan, although I like hip hop to an extent.
I’m mostly an 80’s child…though I was born in ’88. Hehehe…
Jill —
cough, cough, ack, ack.
nope, don’t think so….
I’ve got mild asthma. How about blowing bubbles? It is a gay wedding right?
I think my faux cyber sex was funnier.
Oh darn…I missed “Bohemian Rhapsody”. One of the best bloody songs by Queen besides “Under Pressure”.
I missed teh partay…*shakes fist at studying for finals and watching “House”*
Hisman:”Your repsonse was canned and typical of one who doesn’t think for themselves or very thoroughly for that matter.
A person can say the earth is flat all they want. It’s still round and for those that believe it’s flat, a truth they may or may not have to admit with probably little or no consequence unless they’re a rocket or space satellite designer.
On the other hand, denial of God’s existence does not make same true. Rather, it is a truth that is eventually realized by all as His word says, “Every knee shall bow and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.” The sad part is that if He is not acknowledged in faith before death and only by sight after death, it is too late and the consequences eternal in nature.
You might say, we can prove that the earth is round and not flat. Really? Have you personally determined that the earth is round or has someone told you and reasoned it out with you so that it makes sense to you? Therefore, you believe it. Scientists have never seen an atom, but because of mathematics and physics and understanding they reason that they have to exist. Have you ever seen electricity or just the effects of electricity?
Same with God, if you would listen and look all around you who else but a wonderful God could create the beauty in nature, the wonder, the majesty? If thoughts and emotions are themselves not proof of God’s existence apart from all the physical evidence I don’t know what is. Are thoughts and emotions simply chemical reactions in the brain? I think not.
Are you absolutely sure it is wise for one to take the risk of saying in their hearts, “there is no God”? The Bible calls such a person a fool.”
I have no clue what post this is in response to. But I guarantee you that I thoroughly THINK INDEPENDENTLY about every issue around me. Unlike people who believe in religion and unquestioningly follow whatever their church leaders tell them. Have you ever thought about how the Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek in the Bible might mean something different than the way it was translated into English? Have you ever examined different translations of Bible verses and the ones that biblical scholars agree on, which are often different than what the official English translations say? I have. I think about everything very thoroughly. I certainly think for myself. I was brought up in a small Christian town, that has the headquarters of two large church denominations in it. People didn’t ask you if you went to church, they only asked you where. My high school was divided into cliques. The few openly gay students were ridiculed mercilessly, and were the two bravest guys I’ve ever met for being able to be openly gay in my town. (cont.)
Hisman: I know you all think that “liberal professors” are the ones that “feed us poor young lost souls” garbage. That is such a ridiculously incorrect generalization, and it drives me crazy. I study psychology. I study ethics. My “liberal” professors don’t share their personal views in class, because they are PROFESSIONALS. And I felt the way I did, BEFORE I went to college. Yes, I changed my mind when I lived in that tiny Christian town with the devoutly Christian mother and father. I was surrounded by Christian hypocrisy, by the face of judgment that spat on someone for being a sinner while sinning themselves. I saw that my gay friends weren’t gay by choice. Why go through that every day because they “chose” to? Why not say, heck, I’m young, let’s try ladies for a while. Gay people don’t choose to be gay, so they can’t be sinning if genetically they are that way. And this isn’t liberal professors. This is my personal experience with a few of my closest friends. This is twin studies raised in different environments are still over 60% likely to both be gay. I saw the pregnant girl in my class be ridiculed and called a whore. I saw the girls I knew who had abortions never face that same ridicule. How can we expect women to choose life, if we shun them for having sex? I am not a liberal puppet of talking points. I came through each one of my views with careful consideration of all the facts involved. I’ve seen the videos you dredge up, and I’ve discussed the ethics of abortion in ten different ethical theories. You are the puppet. You are the one who doesn’t evaluate anything further than saying “Trust in God,” when you don’t even know what your own Bible says aside from what church leaders tell you. And you are guilty of the sin of pride. I’ve read a lot of things you’ve said Hisman, and I read pride in almost every post. Seething, dangerous, sinful pride. Judge not, lest ye be judged. There is a plank in your eye Hisman, remove it before trying to remove the plank in mine.
Rae- Bohemian Rhapsody and Under Pressure are both very enjoyable.
But there are some “greatest hits” that dont’ get talked about that I just love. How about “Somebody to Love” “Good Old Fashioned Lover Boy” “Save Me” and “Fat Bottomed Girls”?? Anyone?
btw..cigar smoker here, but still need to learn how to blow smoke rings :/
“second on the fat bottomed girls” Queen rocks my socks.
Alyssa, A friend of mine is friends with Joe Walsh.
Queen rocks!
Long Live The Queen! And his bride, Cameron!!!!
Huzzah!!
Wow, what was in that peace pipe last night? My head is throbbing. There six or seven boas in my bed, elephant droppings on my floor and three lemmings sleeping on my couch.
And do I remember correctly or was that a dream?
Did SOMG really catch the bouquet? Slept with cake under my pillow and now I have frosting in my hair.
Hope everyone got home okay…no DUI’s…
PIP you can really dance. Valerie the bubbles were a great idea. Has anyone seen my shoe?
Did we remember to pay the band?
Where’d they go on their honeymoon? I vaguely remember something about the “Dark side of the Moon”?
Oh man, talk about cotton mouth…I’m gonna go take a shower…
See you guys when you crawl out of bed…Remember, what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas…
mk
MK, Did I miss a party or something?
Alyssa, 10:11p: yes on Fleetwood Mac. “Rumours” is one of my top five albums of all time.
Valerie, 10:32p: lol on blowing bubbles at gay wedding. Can you do that with a lisp? (sorry, couldn’t help that)
Rae, 11:26p: Good girl, studying. There will be another party, altho you and Val were missed. I think I’m going to buy a Queen greatest hits album today. Don’t forget “We will rock you.”
PIP, 12:15a: I recently learned “Fat Bottomed Girls” was about incest. Am I the last to know?
PIP, 12:20a: Smoke rings, one of my greatest accomplishments. I’ll teach you.
I missed it too, Heather…too bad, it looked like it was so much fun!
Jill, Is it really about incest?
Heather, yes, here are the lyrics:
http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Fat-Bottomed-Girls-lyrics-Queen/01FECDA021BB25A84825689400039B68
WOW!
Heather,
Cameron married the gay queen of England (or one of the guys from the band – we’re not sure as Valerie is the one that gave us the info and you know how confused she gets), they went on a honeymoon to the Dark Side of the Moon, we all smoked a peace pipe, at some point we played strip poker but when Cameron lost we had to leave the room, SOMG caught the bouquet, we were all fined for smoking cigars in a non smoking establishment, Val got confused and drank bubbles instead of bubbly (quick trip to the ER), elephants and lemmings crashed the party (the police responded promptly but got sidetracked when the Queen asked them to perform a Village People song, SH showed up with Johnny Depp and rum (that’s where it gets kind of foggy) and the whole thing ended when HisMan got out the hose and sprayed everyone with cold water…
Now I’m picking frosting and feathers out of my hair, Jill is in jail for smuggling in Cuban cigars, Valerie has the hiccups (too funny, every time she hiccups bubbles come out of her mouth), Cameron and the Queen shacked up at Mick Fleetwoods place (but not with each other), SH and Johnny are passed out in the garage with the lemmings and the whole thing was filmed and will be shown on O’reilly tonite…Sorry you couldn’t be there. You missed a great party, but on the bright side you didn’t have to see Cameron naked…
mk
lol MK :D
Yes, that’s about right, MK, altho I got foggy earlier, when blowing smoke rings with my cigar. Unused to smoking, I got light-headed.
So I didn’t remember my arrest until this morning when I awakened next to Cameron in the slammer. He’s still there, having no friends who would bail him out.
The police gave the poor naked boy one of their old uniforms to wear, which caused him to break out with “YMCA.” I claimed not to know him at that point.
Now, I may just be in a pregnancy daze and imagining things but WHAT?!
I actually just read the blog entry this post is about, and I have to say, the little girl (Darby, I think) has got some class. That seems to be something seriously lacking these days, and she doesn’t seem to have learned it from her mother.
Heather, thanks for reorienting the comments. You’re right. And it’s interesting that kids immediately abhor abortion when they learn of it. Smarter than adults.
Lauren,
We didn’t invite you because we know in your condition you can’t drink, smoke or see naked Camerons without getting morning sick…but next year.
Watch O’reilly for photo ops.
Heather,
I thought the same thing. The little child shall lead us. But how long will she be able to see clearly before her mother manages to corrupt her?
Now those are kids that should have been put up for adoption…
I just found it interesting that she (and I guess her twin?) are more “stubborn” about giving people the finger while the others were so easily taught to be so disrespectful at such a young age, and that the mother apparently sees this as a fault.
I will admit that I do swear, and at times, I have flipped people off, but I am trying my hardest to break those nasty habits. They make one appear unintelligent, among other things.
LOL, MK!! Just dragged myself out of the garage and in to work. Have the lights off and am on my 5th cup of coffee. Hope our pictures don’t pop up in some paparazzi mag. Jill, did you snap any picts of Cam doing the YMCA in jail, sorry I missed that!
I think Johnny will definitely have to make an appearance next time. Love that guy. With more rum, of course . . . : )
SH,
The way I figure it when the Queen finds out that Cameron was shacking up with SOMG (oops I promised not say anything, oh well) the Queen will divorce him, SOMG and Cam will get engaged and we’ll have another wedding in no time. We’ll be sure to invite Johnny.
(Have you checked the garage…you left with him last night and nobody has seen him since…just follow the rum trail…and tell him I have one of his gold teeth…)
Jill, really?! I just thought those lines were about a non-relatve nanny.
HIC!